Gods presence is anthropomorphic. And the
reason He is on high is because there is no one higher than Him even in
distance, so that the universe is stretched out as Him sitting as a man
with His arms and feet spreading the entirety of eternity. And if the
depression is fully in the stage where there is a need to see Him bigger
than normal then this is what is depicted to us as we walk down the
path. So that He is able to reach down and deliver us, His hand is
holding us from underneath the earth,and His love is spread to the ends
of the universe in all directions. And if that is not the view that you
have in the midst of the fire then you need to sit and ponder this great
anthropomorphic art of God. And for the sufferer He is always
coming in this blazing chariot that is brighter than anything we could
imagine. Because He is always coming on that war hunt to deliver us. So
that when we fear from being in a trial where there are men as wolves
and dogs gapping at our feet and there are troubles in and out God comes
as a warrior on this great chariot with all of His angels to deliver
us. And He wants us to be the commander of the earthly army to summon
Him from the heavens. So that if we have an eye to His power, then we
will have a sense of the future when God reaches down from on High and
says commands the circumstances in our lives to bring us back to
knowing Him as our Saviour and Lord. When we go through the
fire we wake up like a captain of an army and we face the other armies.
And we are getting prepared to go to battle with the flesh and the
devil. And we have this throne of God in which His feet actually are
placed on the earth and He is able to reach down and rescue us at any
time. So that God uses these trials to teach us His power in this
anthropomorphic way in order for us to be enabled to say from the bottom
of our hearts and with all of the power and determination we can muster
up that He is speaking to us that He is our salvation. And when we
think of Him in this experience of being helpless, then we are learning
to take refuge in Him. The mind is the place were reality is.
And so the Spirit desires for us to have these pondering s that are like
the medicine of heaven. Because we are always in need of deliverance.
And some of us are in need of really a great deliverance and some small,
but yet, the experience is what makes us know Him as a refuge. Because
when we are used to the physical universe of protection, yet God is so
much bigger so that His protection is already happened even tho we are
going through the trial. Because He has determined from eternity to
deliver us and He has determined how long we will go through the trial.
But we dont always understand because we dont know Him by His
anthropomorphisms. And yet these Spiritual revealings are to be pondered
because of the mysterious nature of eternity and the overwhelming size
of the distance above us. And so in looking at the empty sky, we do not
always see the spiritual beings. But yet if we get a description in the
Spiritual illumination, then this is how we were determined to
strengthen our faith by His word being given for the purpose of being a
medicine. Brothers i wished i could write more because i am really high in the Spirit now but got to go.
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: I don't know why it's like this...
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on: January 07, 2008, 01:37:05 PM
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Good analogy, being left to grope around. And
most of the time our lives are like being engulfed in smoke. And for
some of us the hallway in our search is really long and extremely
difficult. The way of faith is sometimes very lonely so that the amount
of pain equals the thickness of the smoke and the difficulty of the
path. First the difficulty is because we have such a sense that we have
no control over the circumstances and still we must move forward, even
without knowing whether we will ever come out of the fire alive. And
then some times we are only left to conclude that we are all alone in
the smoke, without any help from the outside. We as it were just feel as
if we have come to the end of the hallway and there is no where else to
go. The fire is coming upon us. That feeling is what everyone
is going to face in this world. And sometimes its a very long desperate
situation. And whether you are at this point or whether you are fearful
of getting to that point, even tho your at the point in between being
there yet it is part of Gods plan that we are going to be left here for
awhile to be fighting within ourselves to look up to Him. Things get
really hot sometimes and the smoke gets really thick. But God looks at
our lives as if we were on a path, with all kinds of obstacles. And the
path we are on is mostly what we think it is going to be as we look at
the future. The path can be summed up as a path where we look to God and
we go another step. And even tho we are not very well, feeling lonely,
unloved, desperate to know what is going on, yet God has led us down the
path for a purpose. So when the world in our minds gets narrow and
small, then its us and God, then we must look for only what He is able
to do in order to take that next step. Because if we have any
self confidence then we are going to feel as if we are sharing the
ability to hold on in the circumstance with God. But if we see God in
who He is and what positioning He lives on the path in relation to our
experience then we will know that He is carrying us along. But we may be
used to having more self confidence than we are suppose to, and we are
learning by this awful fire that we must give Him more of our desire for
trust. From many Psalms
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Faith Developed, or Faith Destroyed
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on: January 07, 2008, 10:48:09 AM
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"Longing desires after any thing, in things
natural and civil, are of no value or consideration, any farther but as
they incite and stir up the person in whom they are to a diligent use of
means for the bringing about the thing aimed at. In spiritual things it
is otherwise. Longing, breathing, and panting after deliverance is a
grace in itself, that hath a mighty power to conform
the soul into the likeness of the thing longed after. Hence the
apostle, describing the repentance and godly sorrow of the Corinthians,
reckons this as one eminent grace that was then set on work, 60“Vehement
desire,” 2 Cor. vii. 11. And in this case of indwelling sin and the
power of it, what frame doth he express himself to be in? Rom. vii. 24. His heart breaks out with longings into a most passionate expression of desire of deliverance "J Owen. "This
is the work of the Spirit; by him alone is it to be wrought, and by no
other power is it to be brought about.\" Mortification from a
self-strength, carried on by ways of self-invention, unto the end of a
self-righteousness, is the soul and substance of all false religion in
the world. And this is a second principle of my ensuing discourse."J
Owen. Thats the difference between repentance in human faith and
saving faith. We can say in a positive sense that addiction and
obsession are in this passionate faith. In the sense that the wrong kind
of balance leads to legal conviction and drives us to despair in the
spirit of big bang determinism. Balance is high holy affections. These
words are neutral. "Assure thyself, unless thou longest for deliverance thou shalt not have it." J.O.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: January 07, 2008, 09:44:01 AM
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first
of all I want to really Thank You MBG for those testimonies...really
gave me insight..and to you TB for confirming what I always knew that
most if not all addictions grow out of a need for approval and what I do
to releive the anxiety of such efforts..really good stuff..this is my
favorite kind of forum sharing.. with that in mind..I will share more tomorrow because it's late.. Speaking of Romans 7:24-25  I
remember bringing to mind "my yoke is easy and burden light" one night
on new year's Eve of '94. I was in the middle of a parking lot of a
supermarket having just bought Doritos and Mountain Dew for a get
together I was going to for Church. All of a sudden this
overwhelming sense of grief came over me..it had been a rough period of
several years..and I couldn't play the "evangelical game" anymore.
Biblical verses were beginning to become defined in real experience now
and not as intellectual soundbites form a pulpit that sounded life
affirming.....if you know what I mean.. I began to pray as the
sleet hit the windshield..at first I prayed a kind of expected
prayer..soft toned..falsely humble and then as I spoke it seethed into a
rage..I began to yell at God...and I started to cry loudly..it was a
lot of emotion..I was angry..I didn't sign up for this I thought..I felt
like I was going in circles..I shook my fist at the ceiling of the
car..really mad at God..but it wasn't really God I was angry with.. It was the cross...the ultimate will for my life it
was doing it's work on me..I was being crucified..into the easy
yoke..My need for self-protection and self approval and self ambition
and the anxiety of trying to please others and my failures at trying to
be good on my own terms and efforts was now screaming at a full pitch of
the aggravation of my works and humiliation according to my own sense
of self worth..I had avoided letting the cross do it's work and now it
was evident.. in a lapse of silence except the sound of sleet
hitting the windshield and my own breathing I could here the still small
voice aying clearly "Learn of me......" there are moments in
your life you remember like that..very clear..where you know you will
not see things the same again..that was one of them..but it was just the
beginning.... one night I got a word from someone that really
put me in my place..I wrote the date down in my Bible..I'll share it
tomorrow..it was one of the kindest things I ever heard ..it was pure
grace..to be used to move forward .. peace RR
Great stuff RR and TB and ccurtis at the other Topics. I am seeing some
things. And really i may use words in my writing that are a way of
communication in this post modern society, because i believe we need to
take the philosophical epistemology and speak biblically through it so
that on the one hand we get the flavor in a moral sense and yet redefine
them in the grace paradigm. And so whether its self protection, or
addiction, or ocd, or manic depressive God is bigger than all of these
paradigms so that the weight of the definition is brought under Gods
purposes in all circumstances. Gods gets all the glory, and we are left
to just rejoice and receive pleasure from Him. They said of the apostles
in Acts , that if God is on their side then you will not be able to
stop these men, so that all things are brought under His purposes. The
philosophical power is in mans buzzing , in the buzz words. We
can long for the proper desire. And in that experience we will be taken
out of ourselves and have eternal predispositions to remain in the high
sweetness in the sense of having a glimpse of His worthiness in being
present in heaven, before we actually experience death. This is
possessing eternal life.
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6804
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Faith Developed, or Faith Destroyed
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on: January 07, 2008, 08:48:49 AM
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It
is my opinion that many individuals do not understand faith, or more
pointedly, the workings of faith and how it is developed within the mind
and heart.
In order to have any coherent discussion on the subject, a clear definition must first be obtained.
Now
we all now the Biblical definition of Faith as the evidence of things
hoped for, the substance of things not seen. For sometime in my own
experience, when asking about Faith, this was the common answer, but
unless it is dissected it will not be understood correctly.
Many
understand it as an individual believing an event will come to pass.
This is a correct statement, however there is more to faith in this
definition. If we break down the definition we find that faith is the
sum of evidence(proof) and substance(material), of things hoped for(a
future event) and things not seen(already in existence).
Therefore,
logic would dictate that the feeling of faith itself is proof that a
future event will take place, and the emotion is also the material of
which things which are not in physical existence will come into being.
In
a study of the biographies of men who have achieved great things, it is
found that invariably, faith played an important role in their ability
to accomplish the goal which is set before them. Edison, Ford, the
Wright brothers and many others had faith that their dreams would become
reality even when other people told them they were crazy and their
ideas were impossible. Marconi was commited to a mental ward by his
friends, but yet he persisted in his course and belief that he had found
a way to transmitt sound without the use of wires. We can see through
these examples the importance of faith in the lives of men.
Notice
that Jesus does not say that if we have faith we can ask Him and He
will toss the mountain into the sea. He says that if we have faith we
can tell the mountain to be tossed into the sea and it will be done.
However much of the time, we see people praying, begging and pleading
for God to do something to help in the time of need. God has given us
the ability however, to be able to use our own faith to call upon
resources unknown to us. It is commonly known that we do not understand
much of how the mind of man works, especially the subconscious.
Does
this suggest that by faith we can call into physical existence that
which we want and it will simply appear? I hardly think so.
Could
it be though, that by faith, we can call to ourselves those resources,
both internal and external, which will give us the ability to accomplish
our goals and overcome obstacles?
And now, after having
established the importance of faith, and we know how much Jesus talked
about faith, how then is faith developed?
I believe that a lack
of practical teaching on faith, causes many to lose faith, especially in
themselves, or what faith they have is destroyed because they don't
know, practicaly, how to maintain and develop faith. If a man loses
faith in himself then, what happens to his Faith in Christ?
So then, how is faith developed?
Faith
is relying on, clinging to, resting in, trusting in Christ. So really
biblical faith is the opposite of what you describe here. This faith is
faith of physical things like having faith in the future trusting that a
chair is going to support your weight. That kind of faith is easy, just
follow the money trail. 
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: January 06, 2008, 07:38:11 PM
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Wow, RR, did you ever hit the nail on the head! (and you too Mbg).
I
believe the need for approval (along with the concommitant fear of
rejection) is at the root of all my addictions. As far back as I can
remember, it was always necessary for me to appear as either the nicest,
the politest, the smartest, the most caring (and this would feed into a
personality quirk where I sometimes feel overresponsible for others).
If, for some reason, I could not be any of those, I would then try to be and enigma;
totally inscrutable. It was going to be either you saw what I wanted
you to see or else I just dropped off your perceptional radar
altogether.
This need for facades is something which still
plagues me to this day. It can crytallize into any form (often, quite
subtle ones) such as sometimes being a bit wordier than usual (because I
cannot have you thinking I am an inarticulate moron) to going out and
buying some Just For Men hair coloring (because it is important for me
to show you some of what I was twenty years ago). It is as relentless as
it is deeply entrenched, and I, for myself, see absolutely no remedy
except what Paul declares at the first verse of Romans 8 finally
pecolating down into the deepest recesses of my soul.
I am
rite there with you, but i understand the need for approval, I used to
live my life for others approval, but if we communicate with others what
we want from them and what we are all about then we do not need to be
overly concerned. I choose to do that in my relationships and not so
much on these forums, because i have no idea who everyone is. Ive gone
off the beaten path here. And yet there are much deeper needs which must
be met, and i can say that mine is an intellectual conversation. I get
frustrated with the everyday chit chat because there is something in
everyone that is interesting to me. But in the end all of the ra ra
leaves us in the same place in learning. I find that if i try to learn
something that i absolutely love, that is theology, look i wouldnt be
here for the chit chat to tell you the truth, although it is good to
chat with you. But to often we live looking for approval in the post
modern way and we waste valuable time focusing on the things we love in
learning. And then we waste our lives in the end. We only got a very
short time to learn how to overcome so we should not waste that time. I
will tell you the truth, i do not think much about what other people
think about me, because i am a stranger in a foreign land and i dont
mind the stranger feeling. Thats scripture. But if you knew me in
person, i probably am the biggest cut up in a jovial way. We just get
half the person here. I hope i didnt come across too harsh, i like
reading your post.
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6807
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: January 06, 2008, 06:45:09 PM
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so
there I am in the middle of winter 1994....a friend asks me if I'd like
to help out at the addiction meetings at Church. The catch was you had
to appear to have an addiction as well. So I went and served coffee and
prayed one on one and said my bit when the circle came around.
Now
little did they know I had one of the most peculiar addictions of
all..may not have been drugs or alcohol or gambling. But I was addicted
alright..so I would say yes my name is and I'm an addict.
I
remember one on one prayer I watched those who I knew in the pews on
Sunday who I thought were really the most spiritual lifting hands during
worship..feeding homeless and knowing so much Bible verse were now
sitting next to me. It was a bit of a shock to be honest. But so was my
denial in-light of these brave ones who had come clean and allowed their
weakness to be shown. I was brave according to them too but just didn't
know it yet. One in particular was a friend of mine that I did not know
was attending. We got to talking and later became roommates and shared
an apartment.
"What's it like to have an addiction?" I asked..he
looked at me and said "what's it like to forgive someone who cheats and
betrays you?"
Hmmm good question.
My addiction had landed
me into a bad relationship with someone I should have never married.I
was becoming more aware of my deep fallen nature. It was beyond the bad
behavior and good christian/ bad world theology.It was much deeper. My
mind was being renewed but my soul was fighting it along with my will. I
was beginning to learn something of grace that I had not known. I
continued to go to the meeting and thought that it would be of use to
share my addiction to cigarettes. I know it wasn't a big addiction
compared to the others verbal testimonies but it was welcomed anyway. So
I shared.
On this road to forgiveness and that is what it is a
road with many twists and turns and run offs but you keep going..I
noticed my own sins very clearly. This was really enlightening. I wish I
could say that after making the proclamation of my forgiveness that me
and my ex parted ways and rode of into beautiful sunsets..NO..it doesn't
work like that.It got worst between us in the sense that now I was
being targeted by the flesh and enemy more. But at the same time there
was a peace I never knew either at the same time..strange thing about
God's will.
Anyway...I saw now that this was a blessing.
Yeah..how crazy..now I was being crushed of a pride that was going to do
no one any good if it didn't get knocked around. Forgiveness and
breaking addictions are a lot alike. They need a denial of the flesh to
make happen.They are very comfortable and give the illusion of control
because they are mine....and worst of all they are FAMILIAR.
The
new creation terrifies me at times. I have no idea where it's going. I
know where unforgiveness and addiction lead. Some people don't
understand that...I do. But I also seen people overcome through the
spirit. I know some. But am I ready to make that sacrifice..really risk
my comfort..my rush of the soul..the adrenaline of knowing my rage at
the world and those who wronged me.
another Good question.
I
see my mind being enticed by the spirit for good things..but it's going
to cost this life. this life of security systems and and anti-pain
receptors and make me once again to be ..vunerable.The flesh screams
with horror at such ideas.Oh I can be wise..and should be real and know
not to be a door mat... but the time had come to allow my righteousness
to be handed over for a new righteousness.
But nothing prepared
me for the hardest forgiveness of all. Myself. My pride was so thick and
I was so insulated from the clear indentified thoughts of being less
than perfect. All those who wronged me certainly justified my tears and
mourning but that's just it..I hadn't mourned. Not fully.
I looked a Lil' deeper inside with the spirit's help and found that grace was God using me in spite of myself and my flaws
BUT in order to gain a bit of ground and move with enticement...not to sit still..
just enough to get me moving towards absolute surrender...
there's
so much more..and I appreciate the input here..I think we can all
help..I'll have more..about an addiction that can cause real damage as
well..it's called approval.
Good testimony RR. I am
rite there with you. You are talking to a very damaged person. I have
had fears that would make your hair curl. And yet that deep scar has
been my prize weakness. I mean it was kinda like feeling as if i were
dragged to obedience. It is from my childhood along with a very
condemning conscience with a tendency to ocd and my mind was a mine
field of condemnation. Its called mental illness. But i havent suffered
from the effects for quite some time. It is something that could spring
up again.God only knows the future. Ive gone through all of the
steps to get whole being a product of growing up in the 70s with all of
the shifting to the paradigm of Freud. So i have had to rethink
everything since there isnt a moment when my mind is not racing to get
to the next thought. Through memorization and deep meditation on
scripture it has been much better then not having to struggle with the
kind of personality i have and the family genes that were handed down in
that environment. So i have learned a lot through this thorn of mine.
It drove me to memorize a lot of the New Testament, the Psalms and even
the book of Proverbs in my thirties oh and the 1st 4 chapters in Rev. I
had to stop, i was getting slain in the Spirit  .
Wow, mind blowing ocd. Im parked in the Psalms rite now, just making
grape juice. But my goal is to one day get all of Hebrews. If i can do
that i don t care what else happens. When i started in my 20s i
was a very protective and uncontrolled emotional wreck. And it took some
real changing to get to where i could get married even. But if we focus
on the rite things then we will live in that reality so that what we
believe will determine what we do. And after being married for 22 yrs i
can say that along with my wife the meditation has been absolutely my
addiction. And since i am given to ocd it is what i love about being so
fully focused on that artistic life style. In my struggle to gain
control over my thoughts i have lusted for spiritual illumination for
about 25 yrs. And there hasnt been a decision that I have made that
wasnt effected by this artistic lust. Just calling on God in the car, in
the house, in the cafes, in the ball games, in every street in the
cities, it has been a wonderful experience. And so there is a level of
desires that we can learn in an artistic way that we get used to living
with, so that we long to long for more. And this is really what life is
about. Reality is what we think it is. And so when we go through all of
lifes situations and we can reach a level of passion, then we can get
above those circumstances so that we only have memories of dwelling in
that moment being filled with all the fullness of the Spirit. But the
other end of that experience is the tendency to be overly concerned and
fearful.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: January 06, 2008, 07:18:29 AM
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Lately
I've been thinking about the differences between the attacks of the
flesh, and the attacks from the enemy. Although the two are often
mutually symbiotic and almost always inextricably intertwined, it is
probably safe (and obvious) to say that attacks from the flesh happen
from within, while attacks from the enemy happen from without.
I say without,
because even though they often take the forms of thoughts he sends to
us (and then tries to convince us that they are our own), they are,
strictly speaking, coming from an outside agency. He sends the thoughts,
based on our situation, past actions, personality profile to date, etc.
etc. and then the flesh responds accordingly. Sometimes he will see our
flesh already heading in a certain direction and then will give it the appropriate encouragement (i.e. such as lust, anger, pride, etc).
There
are times, however, when the attacks from the enemy are strictly
solitary and the flesh is not a participant as such except to react with
fear and apprehension.
Those times when the enemy has directed
some outward set of circumstances (such as a sickness, lawsuit,
bankruptcy. etc) againt us and we are totally powerless to do anything
except lean on the Lord and rely on His strength and provision.
I say all that to say this: At such times, neither the flesh nor your regenerate spirit wants any of this to be happening.
They have both declared a temporary truce (of sorts) with oneanother
and for the time being, the flesh, (although still responding with fear
and or self-pity) more or less says "O.K., fine. Do your calling on God
thing or whatever, just get us out of this!"
These times
are obviously the exception to the rule as to how the flesh operates.
Usually, some illicit desire has apprehended your senses, and the flesh,
with it's terrifying power, is doing everything it can to make this
seem appealing or good to your senses. (Even though you know very well
it is not). Part of you wants to succumb - if only for a moment! -
with the false belief that if you do, then maybe the flesh will be
happy and "shut-up for a while."
This is the whole essence or
Romans 7. We are walking civil wars. Everyday we go to battle with
ourselves. Everyday we have to deny ourselves on so many fronts that at
times, (even though it goes against another epistle), one feels as if
one should have great big signs posted everywhere saying: "NO!"
This
is also the essence of another sin that often tempts me (and sometimes I
give in). Namely: Bitterness. I sometimes reflect on how unseemingly
unfair it is to have to constantly be in this state; of being a
spiritual schizophrenic. Remember, when we were all unbelivers, our
unregenerate spirit and our flesh were working in tandem to get things
done. (In fact, the two were practically indistinguishable from
oneanother). After we became born again and wanted to do something, the
flesh promptly turned around and said: "If you think I am helping you
now, you're crazy!"
And here is the part where I sometimes
feel doubly-afflicted. Whenever, I have to face temptation, win or
lose, I have had to deal with not just the temptation, but with the bitterness over constantly having to be tempted.
It is as if I am fighting two battles instead of just one; I have to
fight the temptation itself, and I have to fight the bitterness that
comes along with being tempted. You could say that this second one is a
choice (and perhaps it is), but it doesn't make having to deal with it
any easier. I know the scripture where it says that "God is faithful and
He will not allow you to be tempted above what ye are able, but will,
with every temptation, provide a way out that you are able to stand
it." I know and belive this scripture. It just seems that the distance
between my head and my heart concerning it, is not 18 inches, but rather
18 miles!
Anyway, that is just my "State of the Union
Address" as to where I am at today. I have at least found these forums
where I can vent from every pore if need be and will be surrounded by
people who understand. From what I've been reading, I am far from the
only one.
Very good post TB. Its a real battle that
starts in the mind and then we form an understanding of the object of
our desires. And then the will falls in line. Because there are all
kinds of desires that we have to overcome a persistent sin, we can not
always trust in the reasons why we want to overcome an outward sin. We
need to have the scripture define what a true spiritual desire is so
that the principle part of our understanding would be able to cast down a
sinful desire in order to overcome an outward sin. Because the object
of each desire, which are many, will determine whether the unrighteous
desire dominates the misguided desires and terminates the weaker desires
to overcome an outward sin. The one inward sin will dominate in order
to overcome the outward sin. Coveting to overcome excessive drinking. When
we are in the growth process we must be enabled to overcome a
temptation. We always choose what we desire the most, and that includes
all of our body motions. So that we are completely responsible for what
we choose even tho we are unable to meet the strength of the obedience
at the present. Growing in Christ is really being able to gain the
strength of desire to obey. And thats part of the wanting to do good but
not doing it. Our want to obey desire is not stronger than our desire
to sin. So we are responsible because we choose based on our strongest
desire.The apostle Paul is not saying that he has an equal choice about
the object and the sinning is determined by the resistance of the will.
In that case then we could have levels of resistance (in a praiseworthy
sense )as to equal obedience rather than a true personal responsible
choice in desiring to sin. Nevertheless, we have longings to
obey that are there. And these longings are the renewed desires. So that
at some future time we will be better equipped in our minds to have the
strength of understanding that will match our present longings. We are
looking at the goal of becoming like Christ , but we have not arrived
yet. But God sees our longings and He looks at the desires of our
hearts. It is by grace that we learn the process of understanding the
true spiritual desire. We could never reason on our own to have the
understanding. But true spiritual desires will be formed in us by grace
as we gaze at Christ, who had the praise worthy understanding so that
all that He desired was the Fathers pleasure. And we look on Christ
through the word. The process of being renewed is to be
enlightened to grace, in which we learn what is praise worthy by the
praise worthiness of Christ work on our behalf. And we learn to identify
that glory, the real weightiness of the divine knowledge. The value of
the desire is feeling that weight.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: January 05, 2008, 07:19:51 AM
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So
now does the "Let" seem more understandable. Our end of the bargain for
allowing the intentions of the flesh to dictate false comforts?
I think
so, I'm just trying to reconcile this last portion with the rest of the
post (which was excellent, by the way RR). My "end of the bargain" is not
to let the flesh reign in my mortal body because it has been declared
(or in fact, is) dead? Sounds real good in theory, I just don't remember
having a wide degree of success with it. (Unless I've gotten what
you're saying wrong). My track record tells me that about the
only thing that is the major catalyst for change in my life is a lot of
hurt and sorrow. This seems to come by way of sin. We may not be sinning
in order for grace to abound, it just seems that in my experience, the only way I come through a whole lot of transforming grace is by way
of sin. Now, I know what that sounds like, a lot of people who may be
reading this will just have to trust me in that is not what I meant. It
seems to me (and I hope that I am not reading into it) that the whole
purpose of Romans chapter seven (and the beginning of Romans chapter
eight) is so that a person will not experience much of any kind of
transformation until they come to an end of themselves. I don't remember
a single time when sin was not the means by which they came to that
end. Paul himself says that he despaired because the "good I would do, I
do not, and the evil I would not do, that I do." Now he was either
being poetic, or else he was stating something which is pretty close to
what I've been talking about. Namely, (to put it in other words) "You
can't use something that's broken to fix something that's
broken). Or, what exactly in me is doing the "not letting." The obvious
quick comeback by many will be "Why, it is Christ in you." Then why am I not seeing any changes? "Why, because you aren't letting Him!" Yeah, well I thought that my "let-er" was the problem! "He's not going to do it without you, you know." Yeah, well he'd better, because if it's on me, than I doomed before I've even begun! See the problem? The thing that "lets" or "doesn't let" is me; that is to say, my flesh. Something, at somepoint, has to have veto power on the flesh and that thing cannot be me or any part of me - because I'm the problem! I
don't know. It could be that I am reading way too much into it or
overcomplicating it. The only thing I can do is exercise the will to ask
God for these changes and desires to be made manifest in me. The use of
the will to any other purpose has always proved futile in my life. (P.S. Praying for you struggle too, RR).
Its not that we must despair in order to change our desires to be in
line with glorifying God and enjoying Him forever. But when we are faced
with the command to do good, we may be unable to meet the command
because our desire to do the other thing is stronger than our desire to
do the command. And even tho the command has a certain weight that is
added to give us a strong enough desire, yet we may have a stronger
desire because of our attraction to the disobedience and we are unable
to obey.If as the Arminians say that obedience is a necessity to the
command, then there would be a faulty disobedience. So that this is what
growing in Christ by transforming the mind is all about. We go from
being unable to meet the command to able by growing in our desires do be
able. But if we just came to it through giving into our stronger desire
to sin, we would never be attracted to obey the command. We would at
some point give up. Thats why we grow by grace. And grace is always the
positive over the negative soil. Grace brings on the pleasure in spite
of disobeying because Christ has already obeyed, an we simply go to Him
and we have no condemnation. And it is from this view that we look at
our disobedience. We do not sin in the environment of despair. But we
are always to have an eye on Christ as the object of our being able to
obey. Which is evangelical obedience. As we rest in Christ from
our dead works, we learn that it is not by the works of righteousness
that we have done but its according to His grace that He saved us. So we
have this new view in our being able to die daily to sin that is from
the paradigm of no condemnation. Which means that we are no longer to be
in the constant relationship to others in an accusing environment.
Because we now represent His name. We are judged according to imputed
righteousness. Now we are unable to obey the command but we are still
looked on by God as being completely righteous by that imputation of
Christ righteousness, so that we glory in His name or His authority on
our behalf. He really is our advocate. And at some point we are going to
need to trust that He is the only one that can make things rite in our
world. Because imputed righteousness is Him dealing justice in
protecting us even tho we sin. And in this way we grow in our desires to
obey and we loose our desire to disobey. Like Steve B says, you got to
be loved first. If your in despair, go get loved by the rite people
first. God looks on how your treated more than He looks on your sin, and
He will balance that scale. I came across this , very interesting insight. I apologize for leaving the author out, i just cant find it, any way. Although
the concept of righteousness in our culture has come to refer almost
strictly to ethical and moral conduct, this is not the primary referent
in the OT. Righteousness does produce ethical and moral conduct, and can
be found in such, but the OT concept of righteousness is essentially
the "fulfillment of the demands and obligations of a relationship
between two persons."3 Under the Mosaic covenant, Israel related to God
on the basis of Moses' Law. One's righteousness was judged upon their
conformity to this Law, through which they related to YHWH. If they kept
the Law, which consisted of many non-moral commands, they were
considered righteous (in right relationship) before YHWH. When one broke
God's Law, they were in essence betraying the relationship between them
and YHWH. This is the essence of sin.4
To demonstrate that the
OT concept of righteousness has more to do with relationship than with
morality, two examples will be cited. In Genesis 38 we find the story of
Judah and Tamar. Tamar was Judah's daughter-in-law. She was married to
Judah's eldest son, Er, but he was killed by the Lord (Genesis 38:7).
Tamar was then given to the second eldest brother, Onan, to wed. He too
was killed by the Lord (38:10). The only son left was Shelah, but he was
too young to be given to Tamar in marriage. Judah told Tamar to go to
her father's house until Shelah was of age, and promised that at that
time Shelah would be given to her in marriage (38:11). When Shelah
became of age Judah did not keep his promise to give him to Tamar in
marriage, so Tamar devised a scheme to get back at Judah. She dressed
herself as a harlot in a nearby city and her ex-father-in-law, not
knowing who she was, had sexual relations with her. Since he did not
have any payment with him for her services, he gave her his signet ring,
staff, and bracelets until he could come back with payment. After Judah
left Tamar took off her harlot clothes and left the city. Judah did
send back payment, but Tamar (unbeknownst to Judah) had fled. Three
months later it was told Judah that Tamar was with child. Judah's fury
was full and demanded that she be burnt for playing the harlot. When she
arrived she claimed that she knew the father of the child, publicly
displaying Judah's ring, bracelets, and staff. Judah, realizing his
error, said, "She has been more righteous than I, because I did not give
her to Shelah my son" (38:26).
If we were judging righteousness
purely on moral grounds, neither Judah nor Tamar could be said to be
righteous. When it is understood that righteousness refers to
relationship, however, this story makes sense. Tamar's righteousness was
not in her act of harlotry, but in the fact that she met the demands
and obligations of the relationship between Judah and herself, whereas
Judah went back on his word.
You got to see the story
from the doctrine of imputation, but it is a good distinction. The
sacrifice is what met the covenant obligation
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