MBG, I just read Corinthians 7 and the context is clearly about sex.
As
to many counselors, you should also back up to Corinthians 6, where we
are told that we aren't to take our differences to worldly judges, but
Christians certainly can, and should, go to Christian judges sometimes
about disagreements between believers. I think that includes supposedly
irreconcilable differences in a marriage.
I understand your
concern about bad counsel, I've seen it often, but sometimes a person
needs someone to clearly judge a situation, not just try to make some
compromise between two parties (halfway between wrong and right isn't
usually a happy place). Sometimes, one or the other party is actually
in the WRONG and needs to hear it clearly from an independent judge, and
also the one wronged needs to receive justice or relief. God didn't
seem to have a problem with judges in the OT or NT. I think Christian
counselors can fill that role successfully. The few bad examples don't
destroy the whole system of support God designed for his people.
1...
People do not fundamentally change. I do not care how many counselors
or how much knowledge one has. Oh you may get plugged into a society
that has regulations to keep peoples bad behavior at a minimum...but in
my opinion that is a worse bondage than just fighting with your own sin
in private. 2.The lack of sexual companionship in marriage is
not the main problem in being unfaithful. Unfaithfulness is committing
adultery. The marriage relationship is simply two people living together
in the definition that they are in the same house and are together.
There is no demands that make either partner more or less happy. It
really comes down to keeping your covenant. 3. The marriage
relationship is compared to Christ and the church. Christ takes all of
our problems and gives us peace .. joy and love. We give Him grief ...
weakness and inability. This is marriage ... you take the other persons
burdens upon yourself as a requirement of love. This means that the
normal marriage is like a handicap person who needs assistance going to
the bathroom and the other partner is happy to be the only one who does
the job. Thats the standard
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: anger issues
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on: January 12, 2011, 06:53:24 PM
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"The
wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.
And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but
the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a
time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come
together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of
self-control. But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment." 1
Corinthians 7:4-6
Normally this is interpreted to mean sexually.
The same principle can apply to serious relationship problems. Recall
it is short term and a concession, not a commandment. If we leave the
timing, and the results up to Him, we're in good Hands.
No
way... the purpose of marriage is not for sexual union but emotional
oneness. The apostle is not distinguishing the sexual relationship from
psychological problems. That was a false teaching that was introduced
by Freud. A marriage is a covenant between two parties before God. Men
cannot separate that union. The only stipulation of separation is by
adultery. Look at your favorite passage ... in the sermon on the
mount... wow.. Kk ... you need to submit to the scriptures... dude. Putting
yourself into a counseling situation is in the context of advice...
that is has many different ways that you can go. The "multitude of
counselors" is put in there to find a middle ground. The only purpose in
counseling is to bring two parties together that are in a disagreement.
That is to help them find a middle ground. When you have two people who
are experiencing a road block in their marriage you get them to the
place where they compromise but that does not mean the problems to not
continue. Kk you need to tell her the truth... ive checked the
studies about you program. It has a three percent success rate. Not
counting all of the problems that are created with leaving people with a
healthy relationship but encouraging them to embrace all kinds of false
doctrines. It is dangerous when you have certain principles that you
must adhere to and let men hold you accountable for the success rate.
When you have an organization built on that kind of structure then you
create problems on the other end. When you have that kind of oversight
than you create relationships with bigger problems than the problems
your trying to heal.
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2872
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: anger issues
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on: January 11, 2011, 04:14:03 PM
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((((Patti)))))
Know that I have you (and him) deep in my prayers. Anger is often a
symptom of a lingering fear that has never been dealt with. People
become addicted to rage because it makes them feel empowered and gives
them a temporary sensation of having successfully fought-off whatever
demons have been plaguing them. Gouda is right, even if he wont get
counseling of any kind, you still need to work on yourself. Go and see
if your (or any) church has a support group. You will probably find that
one or more of them has a Celebrate Recovery program going on some
evening of the week. There is no reason for two people in the house to
be sick. I know it sounds a lot easier said then done, but you can learn
how to let his issues be his issues, while you claim wellness and wholeness for yourself.
I
just warn you that you might end up divorced with this counsel. And i
agree with TB 98 percent of the time. If you need advice you need to
find someone who encourages you to get different kinds of advice. Its
just like investing... diversify. If you are in these programs as TB is
saying then you need someone outside of the program giving you
perspective. No bias in counseling.
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2873
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: anger issues
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on: January 11, 2011, 03:54:47 PM
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ml4... I am naturally an emotional person. But
i used to take the emotion and bottle it up and it would create in me
all of these tendencies to go to extremes. So my experience is that most
people in this world let emotions run their lives in many different
levels. My own personal view about this is not to try and control these
emotions. It took me a long time to live within myself so that i did
not need others for me to feel happy and emotionally satisfied.
Although i am the kind of person who takes these things to heart and
probably would blame myself its usually best to find an outlet to
express my emotional states. So this forum setting is good but i have
learned that God has given us a way to find happiness and yet to get to a
level of inward communication and communication with others where there
is a healthy environment. But at the same time there are difficult
people in this world that come across our path that we cannot avoid. Most
people say that anger makes you focus on the people you hate so its
like a self fulfilling prophecy. I mean they say you become just like
them. Can you imagine what God would be like in that case.. with all the
hate filled people that He deals with? The reason there are so many
broken people in this world is because they communicate out of
carnality. Carnality is reacting to situations our of a need to protect
self rather than being happy within oneself. There is a desire in an
angry relationship to lash out. But this is a learned response.
Difficult people are weak people. Their emotions of the flesh control
them rather than the fruit of the Spirit. I have found that
expressing my anger before God in prayer and praising Him for His
goodness .. while asking Him to keep me from the grasp of evil men gives
me some response from Him about how to deal with difficult people. The
practice of meditation on the protection Psalms like 25 and many others
has given me a control in a situation where i can confront an angry
person and make it such a negative experience that they sport for a
couple of days. So the next time they want to have this tantrum in my
presence they will know there will be consequences. We used to call
this developing a bite..  One
of the problems with difficult people is they think they have a rite to
act any way they want to because they have gotten away with it so
often. There are two kinds of people in this world. There are
weak people and naturally strong people. The answer to these extremes is
to develop meekness. This is not reacting to emotion but its power
under control. We must admit that the world is full of devils because of
people are pawns of Satan. I mean they have been taught by his realm of
thinking. This person who goes to either extreme... lashing out or self
debasing is a secularist. They deal in control by having a lot of rules
because they have a big lust for wanting to feel that God accepts them.
Lust fulfillment is natural to man. So they get a few principles and
list them then they do them then they want others to follow. So they get
a sense of entitlement to talk to others in a way that is always having
a list or always communicating about something they need to do or
someone else needs to do. Most weak people spend their lives focused on
themselves and others in this way. When we develop a religious focus
about actions we begin to fulfill our lust as if we were lusting after a
beautiful person. This lust is the same process on as lusting to do
evil. So you need to learn how to defend yourself in the way you
communicate... getting into circumstances where you avoid having to
confront the anger and making it a very bad experience but being in
complete control. You need to defend yourself. |
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2878
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: January 09, 2011, 02:36:54 PM
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mbG: "We live in the selfish desires because we have a self will. But when we are born again that will is destroyed."
K_k:
My experience is that the self-will is not destroyed when we are
reborn, but rather inactivated, or put to sleep, and can / will be
reactivated at various times, though perhaps not to the same intensity
or comprehensiveness as before receiving Christ.
I would agree
that in God's foresight, the child of God has / will have no self-will
when we see Christ as He is, for we will be like Him. Until then, i
think it is self-deception to think that as Believers we have no
self-will.
I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless i
live, and yet not i, but Christ lives in me. Will i always act that way
in this lifetime? No. Is it true spiritually, and will that manifest
fully, physically, in the coming Kingdom? Yes, we have His Word for
that.
Our old will is destroyed and we are given a new
will. This will is not a subject of another force. It is a natural
spiritual will. Because prior to choosing our minds must see the true
and worthy object of our pleasure. Our will is the strongest desire to
enjoy this object. I do not think sin has any bonds to our new will as
if to overcome our natural spiritual desire. Even when we sin it no
longer is in relation to our wills as an equal force. Because we no
longer experience the bondage of sin and the law as if they were a slave
master. That is mans laws. These are what the bible calls burdens of
legalism. ie to tie a millstone around a persons neck. Which is to place
someone in an identity that is under the rules of man. This is why
our wills have a cause, means and ends from the spiritual nature of God.
Its what the bible calls real spiritual fruit. Sin no longer reigns
because God is on the throne and grace is the cause means and ends of
the personal experience of the spiritual nature . Grace reigns in us.
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2879
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans Chapt. 5 commentary John Calvin
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on: January 09, 2011, 02:13:50 PM
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20. But the law intervened, etc. This subject
depends on what he had said before — that there was sin before the law
was published. This being the case, then follows immediately this
question — For what purpose was the law given? It was therefore
necessary to solve this difficulty; but as a longer digression was not
suitable, he deferred the subject and handled it in another place: and
now by the way he only says, that the law entered, 178178
“Intercessisse legem — that the law came between,” i.e., Adam and
Christ; παρεισὢλθεν from παρὰ, with, besides, or between, and
εἰσέρχομαι, to enter. It occurs elsewhere only in Galatians 2:4, where
it is rendered, “came in privily,” as required by the context. But it
cannot be so rendered here. Schleusner says, that it simply means to
enter, and that it is so used by Philo. It is thus rendered by the
Syriac and Arabic versions. Erasmus has “obiter subiit, vel, irrepsit —
came, or, crept in by the by;” Hammond has the same; but Beza attaches
the idea of besides to παρὰ, — præterea introiit — entered in besides,”
i.e., in addition to the disease under which all men labored, having
been contaminated by that of the first sin. “Intervenit — intervened,”
is the rendering of Grotius; that is, the law intervened between the
beginning of sin and the beginning of new righteousness.
“The law,” says Hodge, “was superinduced on a plan already laid. It was
not designed for the accomplishment of man’s salvation, that is, either
for his justification or sanctification, but for the accomplishment of a
very subordinate part in the great scheme of mercy.” —
Ed.
that sin might abound; for he describes not here the whole office and
use of the law, but only touches on one part, which served his present
purpose. He indeed teaches us, that it was needful that men’s ruin
should be more fully discovered to them, in order that a passage might
be opened for the favor of God. They were indeed shipwrecked before the
law was given; as however they seemed to themselves to swim, while in
their destruction, they were thrust down into the deep, that their
deliverance might appear more evident, when they thence emerge beyond
all human expectation. Nor was it unreasonable, that the law should be
partly introduced for this end — that it might again condemn men already
condemned; for nothing is more reasonable than that men should, through
all means be brought, nay, forced, by being proved guilty, to know
their own evils.
That offense might abound, etc. It is well known
how some, following Augustine, usually explain this passage, — that
lust is irritated the more, while it is checked by the restraints of the
law; for it is man’s nature to strive for what is forbidden. But I
understand no other increase to be intended here than that of knowledge
and of obstinacy; for sin is set by the law before the eyes of man, that
he may be continually forced to see that condemnation is prepared for
him. Thus sin disturbs the conscience, which, when cast behind them, men
forget. And farther, he who before only passed over the bounds of
justice, becomes now, when the law is introduced, a despiser of God’s
authority, since the will of God is made known to him, which he now
wantonly tramples under feet. It hence follows, that sin is increased by
the law, since now the authority of the lawgiver is despised and his
majesty degraded. 179179 Chrysostom regarded ἵνα here as denoting
not the final cause, but the event, and thought the meaning to be, that
the law entered, so that the effect or event was, that sin increased.
Its rendering would then be, so that: and this seems to be the meaning
given to it by Calvin. The law did not create sin, but made it known,
and by discovering it, increased its guilt when persisted in, and by
discovering it showed the necessity of a Savior.
Grace
has superabounded. After sin has held men sunk in ruin, grace then
comes to their help: for he teaches us, that the abundance of grace
becomes for this reason more illustrious. — that while sin is overflowing, it pours itself forth so exuberantly, that it not only overcomes the flood of sin, but wholly absorbs it.
As i have said He doesnt prove a man to be saved but He illustrates it by giving a man grace.mbG
180180
The superabounding has a reference to the increasing of sin by
means of the law. Grace not only abounded so as to be sufficient to
remedy the first sin and the sins which followed it;
but
grace abounded still more, so as to be an adequate provision for sin
when increased by the law, through the perverseness of human nature.
—
Ed. And we may hence learn, that our condemnation is not set before us
in the law, that we may abide in it; but that having fully known our
misery, we may be led to Christ, who is sent to be a physician to the
sick, a deliverer to the captives, a comforter to the afflicted, a
defender to the oppressed. (Isaiah 61:1.)
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2880
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: CHAPTER 19. - OF CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. J CALVIN
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on: January 09, 2011, 02:00:57 PM
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4. Another point which depends on the former
is, that consciences obey the law, not as if compelled by legal
necessity; but being free from the yoke of the law itself, voluntarily
obey the will of God. Being constantly in terror so long as they are
under the dominion of the law, they are never disposed promptly to obey
God, unless they have previously obtained this liberty. Our meaning
shall be explained more briefly and clearly by an example. The command
of the law is, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart,
2133and with all thy soul, and with all thy might,” (Deut. 6:5). To
accomplish this, the soul must previously be divested of every other
thought and feeling, the heart purified from all its desires, all its
powers collected and united on this one object. Those who, in comparison
of others, have made much progress in the way of the Lord, are still
very far from this goal. For although they love God in their mind, and
with a sincere affection of heart, yet both are still in a great measure
occupied with the lusts of the flesh, by which they are retarded and
prevented from proceeding with quickened pace towards God. They indeed
make many efforts, but the flesh partly enfeebles their strength, and
partly binds them to itself. What can they do while they thus feel that
there is nothing of which they are less capable than to fulfill the law?
They wish, aspire, endeavor; but do nothing with the requisite
perfection.
If they look to the law, they see that every work
which they attempt or design is accursed. Nor can any one deceive
himself by inferring that the work is not altogether bad, merely because
it is imperfect, and, therefore, that any good which is in it is still
accepted of God. For the law demanding perfect love condemns all
imperfection, unless its rigor is mitigated.
Let any man therefore consider his work which he wishes to be thought partly good, and he will find that it is a transgression of the law by the very circumstance of its being imperfect.
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