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512	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Subordination in the Trinity	on: September 17, 2013, 09:29:25 PM
Quote from: Kings_kid on September 09, 2013, 01:16:25 AM Quote from: mybigGod on September 06, 2013, 03:16:21 PM I would be very careful of thinking this is an exact science. There are distinctions in this life. Unity in scripture describes all different things working together ...that being there is nothing created that is exactly the same...the law of non contradictions ..you cant have two exact things.... both being true in the same context. So how do you describe three separate images as being perfect but not duplicated? lol Part of unifying all things is acknowledging mystery. So in this sense everything that God has created is purposed for good including sin...all things work toward one goal..the unifying of all things. And yet people who sin are powerless and deserve our full pity as well as divine indignation. God made us to unify all things in understanding we are gonna sin more in the increase of success because our following is greater. This is why we believe that the exercise of free will is in allowing. The question of diversity is what is just and rite in how unity is described rather than what is deserved. The voluntary actions of the Trinity is the allowing principle because it unifies the soul. Of course i am in this over my head. lol But the point is that we describe the trinity according to our view of unity. Unless of course we image ourselves perfectly. So would you agree that the Holy Spirit acts in perfect submission to Christ and the Son of God acts in perfect submission to the Father, even though they are One and Equal? Paul distinguishes between many people.. but then he says that he treats no one according to the flesh. Now why does the apostle come to a full circle if we can distinguish? I think its because if we distinguish then we can blame. But again the apostle says who can bring a charge against Gods elect? I believe there really are only two real groups. The saints and the aints. So everything is reduced to life and death. You know the teaching...dont touch the unclean thing. Or its really christians dont learn how to think of death in a suicide context. Rather its defining the cursed thing. So we distinguish these groups in light of the saints and the aints. I do not believe the apostle was saying that he denied there were two groups. lol This is why all addictions are evidenced in the personality and not the relationship to the thing itself. Because we live in a world as christians that is opposite of the way the world thinks. In reducing ourselves to total dependence we find complete freedom to act as responsible. We avoid the cursed thing when we see the universe as our being armed when we use words in their proper context. This context is defined by how we distinguish between these two groups.
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513  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Scientific Proof of the Existence of God on: September 17, 2013, 08:47:18 PM The universe is not impersonal. The very fact that we believe in God is having the ability to distinguish between what is personal with what is a thing. If would be hard to convince me that my friend is nothing more than energy. If God and other people were things then our relationship to them would be according to what we do physically in proving the value of the source of energy. But they actually speak to us. So we are living in a world of communication and not just receiving a transference of energy. The question is what has God said and how does it define communication and our relationship to things. God must become bigger than anything that we are related too. Our view of God determines the height of the experience in how we relate to things and people. So we can feel energy from many different angles but our experience of the effervescence of the warmth and our reception of light both physical and spiritual become greater as we know God in a greater way. God is all glorious. This glory shines out over the whole universe. Gods majesty is present in all space. This majesty is His power, wealth, wisdom and strength , honor glory and praise. When we say that God is sovereign we are saying that His government over the universe is how He is viewed as inapproachable light in every space that He rules. But His appearance is veiled for our benefit since we do not possess the strength to endure the full light of His glory. But I do not think we can separate His glory from His communication to us. When we see God we are gazing on His glory. But I think His glory breaks in upon us as well. God speaks in a still small voice. So there is this big area where we try to define how this experience comes upon us. I mean if God is personal then we are gonna experience the effects of His majestic presence. What is the difference between describing our relationship to things and God if we only spoke of them as if we could hold them in our hands, walk close to them, see them when we saw a physical thing, or hear a noise that we can control. But God speaks in a way that we cannot control how this comes about. The only way that we can describe this is when we have a sense of everything in order and we experience time as if we viewed our whole life in a moment. This experience comes about when we learn how to communicate with God as He desires. I mean we always are carried to a point where we experience mystery. This includes all of our natural longings as human beings in alignment with Gods whole personality. Union of body and soul. Three separate persons and one in substance. All working as God voluntarily united in subduing all powers and authorities under one rule. In this union we will judge angels and rule kingdoms. It is our souls experiencing reality and mystery. God breaks in upon us in our personal experiences.     Reply Quote Notify

514  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: God given certainty on: September 14, 2013, 11:08:30 AM I believe when we apply the word to things people do in the past it becomes a very pragmatic explanation. First because no one views application in perfect logic. How can you apply a verse to a situation that you never witnessed first hand? Here I am actually applying an application to your application in saying that our sense of God is being cautious about applying our logic to events because the attitude distinguishes our view of Gods eternal existence to our finite view. So we are under confident in our application by praising God for accomplishing His purpose in how the event turned out...good or bad. And you see this logic in the ot prophets. They argue about Gods view of events that brings us to feeling very small. Because God is not someone people can control in defining events for their personal profit. I mean we always use logical arguments to put ourselves in the best possible position in how we describe events. But the prophets argued in such a way that God was separated from all the work of second causes in the events so that He was seen as working alone for a purpose to deliver His people. In this logic the praise to God was applied as confidence that He would alone work to deliver us. It was this that if God did not arise then we are most miserable. You grab that handle on the alter and hold on until you see the work of God. Reply Quote Notify

515  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciled to God while enemies ! on: September 14, 2013, 10:11:53 AM Salvation is in a metaphorical sense being able to approach God with the attitude of humility.  A christian is not called a proud man but a saint. A christian may struggle with pride but is never again opposed by God as positionally proud. The gift of God is so great that the grace overcomes all opposition. The reason that pride cannot cause a breach in the relationship is because our foundation of the relationship is Gods prior acts before we act that seal us unto the day of salvation. So we experience humility as we look away from ourselves as if we are looking at light out of darkness. We marvel at the wonderful gift. We no longer are divided between pride and humility. We possess perfect gifts in our broken vessel. The gifts contain our weakness. So we experience inability in our sinful faculties and bodies but Gods perfect gift overcomes all opposition. His perfect gift is contained as revealed words to us. Any change that happens in this world must be done through subduing and overcoming. Some people have a imaginary view of deliverance as if our requirements are equal with Gods perfect gifts but we are too weak to subdue evil and incapable of overcoming it in ourselves in our fallen state. The opposition to Gods acts in us are subdued and overcome from His free gift of grace. In our struggle between concern for our safety and a weak faith about future events we return to the full relationship ...Gods vision of us that overturns any imagination. Its all given just for the asking. We are people who not only experience this fallibleness but take it and hold onto it. We sort of collect bad experiences. I suppose its because we are made to enjoy the experiences of life as we view them according to the enlargement of our soul. The word of God sort of feeds our inner man... like deep calling to deep and then we experience Gods rushing waves that wash over us...the washing of the word in which we come to absolute reasoning ...the clear vision of truth and mystery -The truth of who we are in the future state as overcoming opposition in Gods legal pronouncements and a sense of Gods power and love that we cannot fathom. A lot of people think that the inner man is kind of like a catholic priest who shields himself from the sinful world in order to preserve his faith. But this is not really the teaching. As we are enlarged we learn to war against the whiles of the Devil. These bad experiences enter and we subdue them as if we are recreating future reality. We curse from Gods law the full experience of a curse of blame and malice from a wicked heart. All things are reordered by Gods perfect word. We say that renewal is simply allowing the gifts or destroying the destruction. This is the purpose of using the word -God speaks and it is accomplished ...to overcome opposition in the amen- the spirit of praise.  We have a kingdom within us. Reply Quote Notify

516  Forums / Break Room / Re: Dealing with critcal and controlling people on: September 13, 2013, 06:17:28 PM God doesn't exercise control out of a lack of control. Gods control is original. So I do not think our wanting control is beyond His control. Our wanting control is our frustration since we do not have Gods understanding. The only other relationship is being in complete darkness to reality. An unbeliever is said to be on a slippery slope but for the grace of God. We make clear distinctions between people because we want to be clear in our interpretation of these various text of scripture. How we think of God determines how we relate to Him which demands a clear interpretation. God has gifted us with the ability to control our lives with our desires becoming His desires. Sometimes Christians miss interpret the humility verses as our confidence in our desires are sinful. We get caught on side issues we do not think deeply when we come to the scriptures. But thinking Gods thoughts should be the most pleasurable thing we do. Why should this be? Because God has entered into a relationship with us with the one goal to deliver us.  When we think incorrectly we think God has multiple motives in how our circumstances turn out. But God gives us a greater control by overturning our inability in this one goal to deliver us through working for our good. But our potential in God is realized through our own experience. In other words we experience control by the enjoyment of our own success. This means that we experience control as we experience the freedom to succeed beyond our ability to take the credit alone. God not only test us but we test Him in the right way. It's a relationship between persons. There is really nothing mechanical. Reply Quote Notify

517  Forums / Break Room / Re: Dealing with critcal and controlling people on: September 12, 2013, 09:39:17 PM Its the natural response to guilt and shame. Although I do not think critical people see how they are controlled. Instead they reason like this... if we are to do what God says then there is no excuse for our failure. They believe that grace gets cheapened by our not doing according to what God says. So they pride themselves in they behavior. They point to their behavior as an example of a lot of years of being mentored. lol The problem with sinners is deeper. Sinners always give themselves a lot more room for failure than the other guy. So thinking that they actually are the example of not cheapening grace is a natural response and not a saving response. Everyone always thinks they deserve grace because of something they do that is wrong while the other person cheapens grace by their failure. The only way a person like this can be delivered from this anger or bondage is to see that grace is for sinners not for the righteous. So we offer free grace as the answer to all the things that we fail to do. This is not weakness but strength. Grace is only cheap when we put it in a ledger. And really its not grace at all. When we accept this ledger grace we actually lead people away from the gospel. This really is cursing someone. It is what the bible calls evil communication. Reply Quote Notify

518  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: For Our Mbg on: September 12, 2013, 09:25:59 PM Still waiting lol Reply Quote Notify

519  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Subordination in the Trinity on: September 06, 2013, 03:16:21 PM I would be very careful of thinking this is an exact science. There are distinctions in this life. Unity in scripture describes all different things working together ...that being there is nothing created that is exactly the same...the law of non contradictions ..you cant have two exact things.... both being true in the same context. So how do you describe three separate images as being perfect but not duplicated? lol Part of unifying all things is acknowledging mystery. So in this sense everything that God has created is purposed for good including sin...all things work toward one goal..the unifying of all things. And yet people who sin are powerless and deserve our full pity as well as divine indignation. God made us to unify all things in understanding we are gonna sin more in the increase of success because our following is greater. This is why we believe that the exercise of free will is in allowing. The question of diversity is what is just and rite in how unity is described rather than what is deserved. The voluntary actions of the Trinity is the allowing principle because it unifies the soul. Of course i am in this over my head. lol But the point is that we describe the trinity according to our view of unity. Unless of course we image ourselves perfectly. Reply Quote Notify

520  Forums / Break Room / Re: Faith, hope, love on: September 06, 2013, 02:15:30 PM Faith will turn into sight in eternity. Faith is believing in things not seen. Faith requires an internal change of our receiving eternal life. It is a spiritual life. We are gifted with new spiritual senses...sight, touch,taste and hearing. These spiritual senses are expressed in our desires. We express our life in Christ as an analogy of our physical senses. When we see Christ it is through our spiritual sight. How do we explain something that is inanimate? The bible uses words that describe this as being emanated by our desire. We read scripture and experience illumination. But the illumination is our interpretation of the idea in scripture. This intellectual stimulation occurs as it passes through our spiritual senses. The bible explains this concept as spiritual rest. We as it were eat the good things of scripture and experience a satisfaction as if we had eaten a meal. The touch is our musing as we ingest the scriptures. The touch is the experience of the emanation of the excited desire. One word of scripture gives us a holistic experience of all of salvation. There are things we understand about our salvation and things we receive by faith. The things we understand and the mystery of salvation is what we experience as satisfaction. We are describing our interior world within the physical world. We are required to guard the interior world. It is our reception of eternal life in the inner man. Because the interior world is without pragmatism. Our interior world is our reception of dogma that goes beyond our natural reactions to the physical world and contains the destructive power of the flesh. We try to avoid our reactions to this world in describing it as over sensitivity. But God has made us like Himself. He responds with perfect alignment of Himself. Our problem is not being over sensitive but our dissociation with what is real and necessary in the reaction. In scripture we find God coming to us not in letter but as a real person. In all of time and every moment and space in the universe God has an absolute declaration of the truth of all things. As we ascend to worship God our experience of dogma and mystery gives us a holistic experience of alignment. The absence of anxiety is alignment. This description is how we see spiritual things. This is our life of faith.    Reply Quote Notify

521  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Is God Schizoid? on: September 04, 2013, 08:34:54 PM Quote from: Lone Arranger on September 04, 2013, 02:12:02 PM Quote So, in essence, Christ through His Spirit acts as a "shield" protecting us from being destroyed by the mighty, awesome, holiness of God.  It seems quite reasonable, doesn't it, to sincerely thank Him for that once in a while (oh, OK, often). I like the way you think, KK.  And lest we forget how severe God's holiness and righteousness is for the guilty read Lev 26: 14-46 (part). " And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.  I will bring a sword...I will send pestilence...you will be delivered into the hand of the enemy.  I will cut off your supply of bread.  I will chastise....  You will eat the flesh of your daughters....  I will lay your cities waste...I will bring the land to desolation.... I will scatter you among the nations and draw out the sword after you.  You shall perish among the nations and the land of your enemies shall eat you up."   If you look at these responses you will see this as a description of the way the nation of Israel was going. They wanted to be like the nations and so they practiced using deceptive scales in the economy. They sacrificed their children on the altars of Baal. This brought inflation so there was not the reproduction of crops as the former days. In a sense God is saying I will grease the wheels in the way that you have chosen. God promised in the covenant that if Israel gave Him the glory then He would watch over the cities. But instead they took up the same religious practices as the nations. They worshiped other gods. A nation is only as faithful as it is to its covenants with God and the people. This is why God always had a remnant who remained faithful to the covenant. They did not raise their hands to foreign gods. They did not forget God. God looks on the heart and He knows the secrets of the heart. The remnant would rather face death than bow down to other gods. God ruled Israel and had a faithful example of His government. From mans view Israel was unfaithful but Gods view as not visible to man. He was ruling by turning the rule of man upside down. The remnant showed their faithfulness by calling upon God as the nation turned away and went into exile. God not only used these prayers to bring Israel back to their land but He protected His people who were in exile. God always carried out His covenant to His people even tho it was not visible to man. This is why we cannot fail. Because God gives us faith to believe His covenant words. We only seek one thing. We seek true glory. We seek a real kingdom. We embrace real spiritual power. We grow in our desires as we hear God speak His promises to us. By His grace alone we are drawn to His covenant through His unfailing love. God promises to always be loving , faithful, kind, long suffering, gentle, full of compassion, and a light to our way. We seek this one thing and we are illuminated to see how God apply s His promises to us. Our hearts are enlarged because God draws near to us as our Father. The simplicity of Gods communication to us is through the free access we have through His grace. Reply Quote Notify

522  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Is God Schizoid? on: September 03, 2013, 09:16:14 PM God is just and therefore He must take vengeance upon those who violate His law. If we thought that God wrote rules for everyone to follow then God would be reduced to waiting for a violation and always reminding people about the rules. He would be in a sense pointing His finger at the rules as if He was subject to them Himself. I think what we need to understanding is that God is describing Himself in writing the rules. So in a sense the standard of rule keeping is not what it appears to man. So in a way God sees more violations of the rules than we see. So when we are discussing His personal response to rule violators it is a greater fearful experience in Gods personal attitude than we could endure. Gods vision of the truth of this world is greater than He could explain to us. We fail to take into consideration the level of this personal interaction with us in the spiritual qualities that He has placed in us in how we react to the evils of this world that are like God. What appears to God as a logical and detailed response to violations comes to us in the form of power that so great that it involves things that we do not understand that are beyond the physical. So when we are talking about Gods holiness it is compared to our being consumed in His real presence. Gods holiness is His presence in our lives that is greater in power than we could find anywhere. He has holy love.. which is beyond our understanding and at times we are consumed in that love. He has a severe hatred for sin ....so much that our hot hatred is burned up in His holy indignation. We are talking here about something that goes beyond the letter of the law. How can a God who describes His holiness in all of His attributes shield us from the full effects? How can He lower Himself to a level of true identity with people who not only violate His law but never rise up in attribute equals to meet the requirements of God? He must do everything that we do according to His standard so that those things that we do that are not up to the standard work perfectly and in His order to renew all things. He must not only forgive our sins but make it so that He overlooks our sins in the relationship and create something that is good that is no intrinsically in us that encourages us to trust in a power that we do not generate on our own. This is what is so difficult about how God moves in this world. What we naturally want to do and how we react to our circumstances is the opposite of how God works through us. In order for God to be holy He must be as close as He can to us in a relationship so that His success in us is not understood by us. In this we find true glory. In this we find things that are too wonderful for us to imagine. Our desire is greater than our ability to carry it out. Reply Quote Notify

523  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: For Our Mbg on: September 03, 2013, 08:52:29 PM Pray for me...im in South Carolina trying to get internet hook up.  Very slow lol Reply Quote Notify

524  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: God given certainty on: September 01, 2013, 09:06:20 PM We can view these things in a totally secular world. We can describe Gods work as how He uses our circumstances to change us. But circumstances are not a thing in themselves but they are defined in all the choices of the whole world from the beginning of time that are present before God. Every choice from the beginning of time has molded the present circumstances of this world. Choices are a form of communication. God has given communication to reorder the world. All the choices of men come from desire in men. This desire is what a man thinks is correct and good. Every choice of man is a legal choice. Just as God has spoken His word so that one word has in it the Spirit of all the words which is God proving Himself just and rite so man in opposing what is just and rite in redefining Gods word is how injustice is present. So we do not live in a secular world where men control things but we live in a world where God reorders all things in a holistic response to every cause of disorder both seen and unseen. We are confident in every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God whether we understand how it is used to reorder all things or not. We have a very big advantage as Gods saints. We are able to understand the spirit of a thing by the spirit of one word that defines all the words. This is not only a legal declaration that reorders all things but the words of scripture contain all things in Gods faithfulness and His divine indignation. This holistic view of the world is how we define health to a mans bones. These words are not only able to correct and teach but they are to be used to set things in order. These words go through the mind of men which is health to his bones and they create renewal. We live in a universe in which life flourishes as Gods word orders all things. Relationships flourish as God works through word and Spirit through man and out to the ends of the earth. These words are in the context of how God governs the world. Everything that God changes is through overcoming evil with good. Gods word is a succession of legal pronouncements. He opens His hand and satisfies the desires of all things. He brings one man up and He brings another man down. God speaks both life and death. Every sequence of reality is in Gods pronouncement of judgement or blessing. God is perfect in His divine anger. As God is who He is in freedom to do as He pleases so we are confident that everything both good and bad is an evidence of who He is of how we define purpose.     Reply Quote Notify

525	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Theorhetical,Theological question!!!..../	on: August 24, 2013, 05:05:55 PM
There is a difference between "being" and "doing". In a situation where you have someone who is experiencing deep sorrows it is always related to anger. No one reacts to pain with a happiness. But the problem is that people who are suffering want an answer. When we are talking about how to change it is always in this area of counseling. Because the person who is suffering wants something to get them out of the suffering. So the practical answers are more important to them than these preserving artistic techniques that the scripture gives in the gospel. And so all relationships have this neurotic component. Its being that person who has the answers that is the carrot that is always chased. But "being" is a reality that we live in that allows change. And so God who is completely free to do as He pleases ... what He does is who He is. So we say that if God is present than all things are put in order. We must understanding that doing is allowing. Because doing is being genuine. And it involves all of the qualities of genuineness. Both the visible and the invisible. So being is only achieved by experience because there are things that we need that we cannot understand in order to be who we are as "image". In achieving our view of our image we experience things that cannot be canned. We are describing the art form of desire to reality. This is the ot concept that gives us a picture of the color of all these relationships. It defines a very distinct form of communication. It is very different than our greek dualism. In this culture we like to view things after we divide them into categories. But in the ot culture it was the human expression that led to health. It was not doctrine on one side and obedience on the other side. But it was description that led all things to be unified in God. We must understand that what we wish for in a story is how we view our own image. This is why we always start with God and we end in praise of God. We all face things in life that are too strong for us. In acknowledging they are too strong we know the potential in our lives to face things that reduce our effectiveness. We are seeing the gospel address these powers that are too strong for us. We must understand that they represent the potential for us to experience pain and then anger and then desperation. It is in acknowledging to God our experience that we are free from the neurotic relationships in which men become the ones who have that answer. When we are reduced we become a burden. So we face ridicule in this weak experience. We must realize that God is the only one who is successful and it is more important to rest in Him than to climb back on that tread mill of finding acceptance.        527  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Who Justifieth the Ungodly on: August 20, 2013, 05:09:07 AM Salvation is the total package of faith alone, through grace alone in Christ alone. Faith is a result of not being able to see every reality clearly. We do not live by sight in a perfect sense. So faith is required because we are trusting in the situations that we encounter without complete knowledge and the future of the total reality of what we are promised. So faith is required just for the simple act of breathing. lol The question is what exactly happens to humans who exercise faith without the complete explanation of the event? Does a human exercise faith perfectly? Obviously not because faith requires human weakness in order for it to be exercised. lol This is why the absence of saving faith is a subtraction of understanding real events and not a good quality even tho it requires faith in the normal actions of life. The addition of faith is to understand that you dont understand. Ignorance is not bliss but we take things for granted. lol God has given truth that is only revealed. So it is possible to exercise human faith and live in the imagination of what is real. If in fact all truth is in God then we can conclude that reality is in God. This is why the truth determines the difference between excising faith as a matter of the working parts of moving in this world as opposed to the rational understanding of how all things work in this world. The exercise of faith is really the expression of human weakness. Reply Quote Notify 528  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Is marriage really practical anymore? on: August 19, 2013, 10:31:06 PM Being able to exercise free will is not a good reason to use in keeping your covenant. I do not know any person who goes beyond his or her God given instincts in being drawn together. So the question is what is rational in light of what a person expects to get out of the marriage. So marriage really is what a person views it to be. This is why marriage is two people who have the self reflection of the image of self respect in their rational view of their one united image being described by two people who view their own image. A rational view of your own image is how you view your partners image. Marriage is the full expression of oneness. With this understanding the art of communication is no longer describing your world in your own image. So in marriage irrational thinking is replacing the other person for a better image. It is the same thing as wishing yourself to be replaced in the marriage. lol To love each other is to love yourself. To hate each other is to hate yourself. So in marriage the rational way of describing self is different than when you are single. This is what we must understand. We view the spirit of the oneness of marriage as we understand ourselves as a spiritual man. The bible says that we have a spiritual man living in side of us. This spiritual man is our understanding of God as creator being successful in creating the unity of the spiritual man as one. So we are successful as we are enabled to grow in our understanding of the love of God. In a sense as we become desperate for ability ..seeing the curse come together with blessing in the One man we will experience mystery together ... the mystery of the enablement of oneness. This is the pray of the apostle in most of the epistles.  Reply Quote Notify 529  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Is marriage really practical anymore? on: August 18, 2013, 02:43:41 PM Cont There is no growth unless the destruction is destroyed. Why are we admonished to put the flesh to death? What is this picture of putting to death? Its a declaration of war through a wish in Gods language. When Moses came down from receiving the law God said let me destroy these evil people and start over. What was Moses response ? Dont destroy them. But Moses was acting as a go between for Gods people. God was saying to let Him divide the people. The prophets did not know exactly who Gods people were so they cursed the wicked as a weapon of war to allow and to destroy. God separated the people so that the elect were allowed to live while the wicked were put to death. This is a picture of the curses worked out in the law. God did exactly what He wanted to and Moses acted correctly as the righteous high priest for his people. How does any change take place? Its through a death of an evil motive and going in a rite way. The way of God is through enabling. We have such a hard time with this way because we are used to doing things that do not address this destruction unto a new conversion of praise in God alone.   Reply Quote Notify 530  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Is marriage really practical anymore? on: August 18, 2013, 01:56:21 PM Weve made all of this language in relationship in a moral paradigm. But the language of the bible is a kingdom language. Its a language that responds to a threat to the kingdom. This is why there is so much sorrow in relationships. Because we reduce the war language to our social context and lower God to a Unitarian. This is why the groom was depicted as having a sword on his side and war garb of splendor and majesty. Guys are called to wield the sword. If we are not aggressive in our language before God then we will turn His glory into shame. The Psalms open up with Pauls admonition to be angry but do not sin. So that context of Paul is described in the paradigm of the curses. In your anger do not sin , when your on your bed search your hearts and keep silent, offer rite sacrifices and trust in the Lord. What is the context of this anger? Its How long oh men will you turn my glory into shame, how long will you love delusions and seek false gods?  So there is a clear distinction between righteous indignation which we enjoy in the sacrifice that enables us to search out the ways of God implanted in our hearts. Which is His active word that orders all things. We create good in our conversion and resistance trusting in God. What is the end result of our anger? It is Gods resistance that creates good. Who can show us any good? What is the creative word that we possess in the rebirth? Its a gift in which we are lifted up in our resistance so that we do not take these secondary things into our own hands. Our language is only acceptable when we resist by exalting God in this gracious gift. Its standing firm in our faith. It is a violent language of war. We wield the sword by agreeing with the curses of the law. This is God allowing. Let the light of your face shine upon us oh Lord. This light is Gods glory manifested in the victory of battle. Our language is really not a social language but a creative language through legitimate resistance. The confession of faithfulness to our covenants is in this kind of resistance in the Psalms. Reply Quote Notify 531  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciled to God while enemies ! on: August 18, 2013, 12:17:40 PM It is very naive to believe there are people who show no faith to be in a position of reconciliation. It is also naive to believe that Christ died for all men and they essentially are locking God to act from the heavens until they believe. If in fact the whole moral code is judged on the basis of communication from one person to another how can we judge correctly if we see no evidence of communication from God to a person? Then we could act any way we wanted to other men and claim that because we have the potential for redemption that we possess forgiveness and our past deeds are forgotten. The potential in God then is whatever we define it to be. And so God oversees every man doing what is right in communication of the image of Gods potential in his own eyes as that mans justification of himself. You either believe the foundation of all things is Gods creative word or you believe that God is silent. But if God is God then He has given the extent of language that is communicated in relationships and He has marked every word from eternity past. Gods word cannot be thwarted or changed. He has ordered the events of the earth by His word. God speaks and it is accomplished. Who has known the mind of God and who has been His counselor? Who has been present from the foundation of the earth? What man has been present in all generations? If in fact God shows the most mighty rulers of this earth as they represent real communication of power and judgement ,that they are removed from this earth and they are easily forgotten then dont you think that Gods exercise of His discipline is ordered in the way He views the entire earth through all generations in the most secret places. There are no closed doors to Gods view. We know that God orders events in all of the thoughts of man and the most seeming insignificant drop of a leaf from a tree. This is why there is the presence of love. If God did not do as He pleased then all the earth would be disintegrated in one mili second. Christ holds all things together. Not only does God decide the winners and losers but He works to communicate to unseen things. Our view of the events of this world is limited to our finite place. But God has knowledge of all events through all of time in one view of the earth in our present existence. Every word will be taken into account in the judgement. God must be seen to be always faithful, loving, kind, and longsuffering. The only way that He can show Himself is through the communication of all things as He turns destruction into life and bad events into good for His people. Any lesser view and we are left to our own devices. Reply Quote Notify 532  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Is marriage really practical anymore? on: August 17, 2013, 05:17:07 PM Been married for quit some time now. Had what you would say is a traditional marriage for most of the time ive been married. I think we get confused in a marriage about the spiritual and the human desires. Ive seen this a lot where the sex is described as a spiritual union and its compared to Christ union with the church. But after thinking about this for awhile it can become extremely strange. Kind of like a new age sex thing. Its compared to Christ union with His bride but there isnt some kind of mystical spiritual growth that comes from the physical or the commitment side of marriage. Ive seen many people who wore the promise ring as a symbol that they would not have sex until marriage get divorced. You really cant depend upon all of these decisions that are paraded around as setting a marriage on a higher level. It really is two very big sinners coming to together to make a family. Marriage is not angelic worship. lol A lot of people look at marriage as an institution that will clean a persons life up. You know you get married and then you learn how to do all the house stuff. So a lot of this discipline begins to warp our view of living with a sinner. We begin to dream there are two angels living together who pray and read their bible. Our society puts a lot of pressure on the two people reading their bibles together for some reason.  Most of marriage really is avoiding trying to lecture each other because its just part of the dirty business of one person thinking the other person being a blow hard. The truth is its best to see the marriage as two people with desires struggling to understand why the people outside of the marriage seem to be more attractive and humble. lol There are so many secret battles in marriage its good to step back and muse at the amount of useless meandering about all of these disciplines in marriage that do not have anything to do with real commitment. You know there is some truth in the songs that are sung about shes a trashy woman and hes a beer drinking slob. lol The people who stay together are able to laugh at the foibles of the other person. Thats the thing about marriage. It will take you to places you couldnt go in a boyfriend girlfriend relationship. It will make you look at yourself in ways you never thought you would. And marriage over the long haul will be transformed into many different expressions of what is important in the marriage. The relationship changes more than the circumstances.  Reply Quote Notify 533  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Who Justifieth the Ungodly on: August 15, 2013, 01:45:54 PM Joker Actually the bible is very difficult to interpret. Youve been saying in your argument that the view of all men being interpreted as the entire race is determined by faith they possess or dont possess. You saying they have the potential in universal atonement but men must exercise their faith. Again we interpret a text by the surrounding context but we also put it together in light of the remote context. We know from various passages that faith itself is a gift. How can it be a gift if it depends upon us to obtain it? Its a gift because God freely gives it by His will alone. But your arguing that sbgs position is not equal to yours. Yet he says that a man does not need to evidence faith in order to be reconcile which equals your assertion that those who do not have saving faith have reconciliation already as a potential. What does does sbgs position logically work out to be? It gives religious men a partial righteousness. If in fact men who are chosen are reconciled before there is real faith then the men who are in the religious system may have false confidence they stand in good terms with the covenant. It also encourages a system of markers without having to reduce everything to grace. You actually are closer than i am to being on his side that the presence of faith does not come from grace alone. Ive shown you how making a strict rule for translating all men to be every person creates a contradiction in the text. There never is a third teaching that basically says All whom Christ died for ...are those who have the potential to be saved..but only those who exercise faith out of the all are actually saved. Your adding what is not in the text.     Reply Quote Notify 534  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: "meeting together" on: August 13, 2013, 03:45:32 PM The apostle says to follow him as he follows Christ. This focus is on a relationship. As there is positive growth in relationship then there is mutual submission. There is never a time where we become someones personal disciple. The only way that we can be saved is to seek rest in Christ. So we are not focused on confession but upon Gods promise of forgiveness and forgetfulness. We focus on God saving us then we will be free to come to Him as a human being instead of some preconceived idea of what we are suppose to be or how far the other person has grown that we want to be like. When we avoid trouble it is with the intent to be alone or having the potential to be lonely. It is more important that we rest in Christ than to achieve something for its on sake. So we advance without a focus of our own righteousness or someones standard. We cannot grow if someone is trying to give us simplistic answers to our problems. The christian experience is to grow through grace. It is to avoid blame. Blame is simply a way to bring us under the power of something. Blame produces guilt. But God teaches us to look away from our sin because it is important for us to be free. It is important for us to have space to grow. So in any relationship we should do anything we can to force others to give us space. The self righteous ways are enforced by quick judgements and demands. We should be slow to judge ...slow to anger. We should fight against the tendency to be overly concerned for our sins. Instead we should guard our hearts in a self protected way. Avoid harsh people with sharp tongues. Avoid wisdom where there is a reward if you do something. Avoid angry people. Avoid religious talk in a 50 50 context. But read and meditate on scripture so that you focus on Gods love for you. It is better to meditate and muse than to speak. But its not wrong to use different forms of speech in a light heart ed way. I mean we are artistic as well. And some situations call for training with harsh language. But this is for the learned.  Reply Quote Notify 535  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Jesus and OT God contradictions? on: August 13, 2013, 12:20:19 PM The teaching that we grow through pain is how a leader gains control of the people. Every cult has this fundamental belief. The christian is to love another person the way that he loves himself. But this is impossible since we are limited. But its part of our obedience in salvation to seek relief and not demand obedience. We do not have a rite to put our own standards on other people. It is Gods business to change people. We are required to do something that is easy. It is to live in grace...seek grace and as God allows we are available to bless others. This is the only rule in a christian context. This is why Christ says "My yoke is easy and my burden light."It is taking the burdens off people that promote christian love. It is not changing people. The work is the Lords not ours. We go to God because we love ourselves enough to find His love is enough. But He is not a mean and uncaring God. Who would go to a God that lectures us about not changing? Is God a rude God? God is either someone who points our sins out  and seeks to remember our sins until we repent or He forgets our sins and separates our sins as far as the east if from the west. There is no in between God! The in between god is the god we make. If you want to be loved then you want a God who doesnt play gambling games. He actually meets your need in order for you to change. He either is absolute in His will or He is not God. Either He blesses His people or He curses them.. He cant do both.   Reply Quote Notify 536  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Jesus and OT God contradictions? on: August 13, 2013, 11:50:14 AM Wow you sound angry. What does it matter how wealthy people look from the street. lol You should see those things they have as a gifts from God. You sound like Jobs wife... curse God and die. lol I mean the trouble that came to him was really a blessing because his suffering enabled him to love God.   Seriously? It sounds like your saying that God enjoys being masochistic. I definitely would think seriously about taking my anger to God if I were you. He needs to replace it with love. I would not say to a person who was struggling with pain that God was blessing them with something good. I would do every thing in my power to curse that evil. The more suffering i see the more motivation i have to curse. lol Why would you allow yourself to have such a cynical view of people who suffer and your saying the things they have are evidence of real blessing. Why dont you look beyond the garages in your neighborhood and see the suffering in relationships. Then you wouldnt put some kind of standard that they have nothing to complain about. The truth is I want all the things of this world if that is Gods will. I seek salvation not problems and sorrows. I do not live thinking that God must discipline me in order for me to grow. I want to be successful without any problems. If someone judges me because of the things i have then i want to get that negative person out of my life. I only wish success in my own life and i seek people who support me in my success. If I have problems i want people in my life who will promote my success in however they are gifted. If i have pain i want relief not change. I love myself too much to stay in and around people who enjoy watching others learn lessons through pain. lol I bet you have a bad temper. Reply Quote Notify 537  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Israel / Christ parallels on: August 13, 2013, 10:11:00 AM Im thinking of the verse Where Christ says "you do not receive because you did not ask. Ask and you shall receive." We are saved and gifted but in order for us to grow we must seek Him by asking for the ability. We are always unable in ourselves to do one good thing. At the same time He saved us into a relationship. His desire is to have fellowship with us. This means that He made us to respond to Him in praise, thankfulness, and trust. He did not make us robots. We grow by receiving all good things from Him. Our potential to enjoy Him is unlimited within our capabilities. Our growth is more depended upon Him than in our own strength. Without Him we have an empty feeling in our stomach. He is not changing us by twisting our arm. We can live this christian life with very little assurance and joy because we do not ask. The principle is "I believed therefore I said I am greatly afflicted and in my distress I said all men are liars." The christian life is being transformed by a view of Him as all glorious and seeing the futility of mans ability. You ask yourself "What is my goal in life?" If it is to be successful then according to how important the goal is to you is how much time it takes to seek it and the returns are equal to its limits. The christian is seeking one goal. Its a face to face relationship with Christ. "My heart says seek His face ...Your face I will seek. One thing I ask of the Lord this one thing I seek that I may gaze upon the beauty of the Lord all the days of my life."What is he talking about? The Psalmist is saying that he has this single desire and out of this desire all good things are his to enjoy. "He will keep me safe in His dwelling" This one desire becomes something that consumes all of the lesser desires. He is talking about an assurance of a Fathers love. He wants to know the love of God in an experience where all other earthly relationships from family to church feel like rejection. Being on top is leading in example so that our relationship with God falls out that He blesses us in what we say. We focus on His language in scripture and meditate on it nite and day. Every time we meditate on it we are transformed. The way we approach Him is to pray the scripture over and over again. We become a nuisance ...asking...pleading...commanding... until we are illuminated. The illumination is our experiencing mystery. We plead until we lose a sense of time and space. In this mystery we hear Him speak in a pleasurable way. We feel the weight of His love. This experience is what we communicate to others. Then He adds these other things. Consuming all the other desires is an experience in which any trouble or responsible actions in working in this world is lesser than this one desire. This one desire breaks in upon us as if we go from being consumed in our importance in our work to becoming a little child in a play ground. This love breaks in upon us. It looks like we are trading something important in our work for something foolish in the worlds eyes. It breaks in upon us in a way in which we experience real divine creativity. This divine creativity is a reception of His power that flows through us in our work but it is also a forgetfulness of ourselves in how His pleasure consumes our pleasure in doing the work. We are led away by the beauty of it all in what the world considers irresponsibility. In this we experience much opposition. We begin to seek Him because we experience the wonder of it all. Everything we receive in this world is a history of deliverance that we remember as wonders.       Reply Quote Notify 538  Forums / Break Room / Re: the swearing pact on: August 11, 2013, 03:16:29 PM Swearing in the christian context is cursing. Swearing in the pagan concept is cursing. But we are not allowed to curse with the intention of our own rules. We are only allowed to agree with the curses of the law. Because the only way that God will save men is if we succeed. And the only way that we can succeed is if the opposition is reduced from thinking they are gods to being only men. A threat in the pagan world is a curse against Gods rightful authority by thinking in a way that is against Gods ways. It is scheming against Gods rules. But Gods rules are His perfect way of loving us. So they curse God by trying to prevent us in the threat or scheme from being blessed by Gods love. It is not necessarily a direct curse. Most people do not reach the level of a fool. In that case God deals harshly with a fool. This is blessing God and cursing men. So we curse as to distance ourselves from the threat and overcome their schemes by the means that God has given us. Real swearing is seeing everything justly come together in the judgement. We will judge angels. We will stand as judges. So we pray in the context of making a case that will be to our reward in the judgement. There is very little justice on this earth. But we have an angel who works on our behalf who ministers to us. So we enjoy our spiritual gifts like we are eating all of the fine foods. Because we have angels who surround us. We will judge them on the basis of their work on our behalf. There are scriptures that command God to advance our cause through our personal angel.  So swearing is kind of like a seal or a spiritual experience. Reply Quote Notify 539  Forums / Break Room / Re: the swearing pact on: August 11, 2013, 02:49:32 PM Yes I agree but we are separated from the world in that we belong to Christ. But we share our sin in common with them. At the same time we cant explain why our sins are not held against us while their sins are counted for their judgment. The reason is because we did not choose to be granted this atonement. It was gifted to us. So what they do not understand is that our anger with the wicked is not about them in that we want them to be judged and destroyed. But we want them to be allowed to believe so they will be enabled to not be judged for their sins. The only way they can be enabled is if God grants them repentance. So this is not like they have a disease that we can catch but its being able to convince them that we are on their side because we see no hope of anyone gaining salvation through their own works. So we hate their way in order for them to be free because we identify with them in being sinners knowing that we could not obtain this salvation. God had to grant us repentance. And we are the closest they will be to real repentance that sets them free. So we live with them but are feared because we bring God into the picture who is our friend. The relationship that we have with God becomes attractive to them. We are able to go as low as we can for them to be as close as they can to this love.   Reply Quote Notify 540  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciled to God while enemies ! on: August 11, 2013, 02:31:47 PM Quote from: savedbygrace on August 11, 2013, 06:21:06 AM kings Quote For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the Truth in unrighteousness, Sorry, but there is no wrath of God being revealed from heaven on anyone Christ died for because His Wrath was revealed on Christ for them, and He is well pleased with that, and  Christ has satisfied God's Wrath on their behalf, He is propitiated for them. 1 Jn 2:2, He is reconciled to them Rom 5:10. This makes no sense because there is no where that it says we were saved while we were reconciled. We were saved while we were enemies...i mean the very word salvation is to be saved from something. We were delivered from the wrath to come. How can we be delivered if we were never exposed to the wrath? Look up the law of non contradiction. You cant be reconciled and enemies at the same time and say it equals salvation... salvation from what?