1171	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Gospel message(s)	on: June 03, 2012, 04:08:40 PM
Carrie i believe the gospel is a message of the ot as well as the nt. The ot was Christ revealed in a progressive way. So we see a lot of the gospel described as a God centered gospel. And we see the apostle in the nt open up the book of Romans with this focus as well. And so the gospel is God giving his grace to His covenant people. The gospel is God saving His people by gifting them with all that they need. It goes further than just a message. But its God coming and delivering His people. So the gospel is not just a one time message but its an ongoing relationship with God through grace. Every day we wake up we enjoy the fruits of gospel grace. We know that God loves us not because of anything we have accomplished but because He decided to include us in His family by a covenant promise. And this covenant promise was that He would through adoption have His children. This adoption is a legal declaration that is binding on Gods side. It gives us a new name so that we are connected in a way that is secure. In other words God says this is my new child and He has my name. So i am going to show the world how much My child is loved. Now this is where i agree with the jews about a spell. I do not believe that any language is evil in itself. So because we have been taught that salvation is a message we hear and receive rather than a blessed promise then we think it was something that we received upon our asking. So we focus on the time we asked and not the blessed state we enjoy. But the jews had more understanding of this covenant relationship to salvation because in their being born they had to be circumcised in order to receive salvation. And upon being circumcised they were taught that they were a nation that was ruled by God alone. They were taught that since God ruled them they were a special people set apart from the nations who did not have the oracles of God. And they also were promised an inheritance as being in the covenant community. So it was more structured that the nt greek sense. But did you know that salvation has never been a national identity? It has always been a spiritual union with Christ. And yet because of Gods covenant love for Israel as if they were His own Son He provided the basis of them understanding that they had an advocate in His saving them from being overtaken by other nations. So God provided them with His redemption in Himself. Now let me talk about this pox mentality. Its called legal conviction that i disagree we as christians can naturally feel a part of this neurosis. Because we curse the curse. lol The christian is only opposed by those who oppose God. So they in cursing us curse God. So when it says do not curse its talking about cursing God and man. We understand that the law not only describes the standard by which we are to act but it really does place a pox on the houses of the nations. In other words if a person was not a covenant member as being circumcised then he was considered cursed. Its kind of like the old vampire tales. The vampires could only die if a stake was driven through their hearts. They also could not be exposed to light and a cross. These things made them suffer. These things were a curse. And so you place a cross in their face and its like a spell. They get weak and then you put a stake in their hearts. A spell is like being hypnotized. Well the law puts a spell on evil men. It sort of makes them neurotic and self absorbed. (It can do it to a christian but only through wrong teaching and not fundamental to our natures.) That is worm theology. And the relationship they have to God also makes them susceptible to a lot of physical problems. Now i do not want to make people think that sickness or any curse is what Gods will is at any circumstance. All i am saying is that God curses sinners and He does it in His time and according to His response. But we can be Gods cheerleader. Thats about as far as we can acknowledge these spells. I wished i had the time to go into the Godspell play and explain . I could also talk about ot and diseases and Gods way of fighting with their enemies but its too long now.
Reply Quote Notify

1172  Forums / Current Events / Re: Breast Feeding on: June 03, 2012, 03:11:37 PM I am so very proud of my wife. We attended the SLHE graduation yesterday and i was moved by the success i saw as these kids were graduating to the next grade in their particular home school environment. Oh man i am so proud of my wife. Because since she is not going to be an active member of the board then she was presented with a reward of appreciation of all the counsel and leadership she provided as the ladies developed the support group to be successful in providing the parents with support. And it was moving when they read a three paragraph detailed appreciation of all that she did in her 24 yrs of service. She had been the president. But i remember how this evolved to what it is today and i am so happy to see these kids being raised in this supportive environment as my son was raised. Ive never been so proud of the unity of a group of people and the positive encouragement and the christian context of education. I feel a sense of accomplishment as if each one of these kids was my own. I was brought to tears as my wife wept because of all the love expressed and i was so proud of her.    Reply Quote Notify

1173  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Steve is wrong... Church Discipline 6/1 on: June 03, 2012, 02:53:40 PM First no one has a rite to judge a brother without first judging themselves. Ive seen so much hypocrisy in this world that it makes me sick. And i am amazed at the level of mis information and miss communication that goes on in this world. The problem is that most people think they do not need to develop a relationship with people which is a give and take relationship as the basis of being obedient.  I would never treat my son that way and i would want to know his struggles not by third parties or gossip but he has a trust in me that he knows i have his best interest and seek to help him get through whatever he is going through. Sometimes people just need an advocate. And in fact i am a person that gives him some support when he needs it. I have raised him as i would want to be raised. I have treated him as i would want to be treated. So i spend very little time worrying about his sin or his responsibility because i do not want him to live with the idea that the gospel is  a worm theology. I want him to be free and blessed. If i was a bad guy i could talk about all the hypocrisy i have seen in my adult life of being in many churches. I could come on here and describe in detail some of my observations not even naming any churches or how many churchs i have attended. So you would not know because i have attended a lot of chuches. But i am not like that. We have a responsibility to guard our own hearts from being hardened through all of these squabbles and angry confrontations. James says to avoid all of this. But our biggest responsibility is to listen closely to what is being taught and to ask a lot of questions. The gospel of grace is so important. I dont mean to be negative and i think there are a lot of sins that go unnoticed because maybe there are political connections in these relationships. But i support the idea that a person can struggle with a sin over his life time and still enjoy the forgiveness granted in Christ. Austin had a kid out of wedlock and was not supportive of that. It was a different time but non the less it is a blot. Calvin had his problems as well. Austin brought in the homeless to live in his house. And Spurgeon had his own homeless agency to feed and house people. Im just wondering if they felt more responsibility to act in a redemptive sense that we think is obedient behavior. Reply Quote Notify

1174  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Catholics and religious suggestions? on: June 03, 2012, 02:35:50 PM gman youve hit on a very real problem. Especially if the man has provided people with a picture that he himself is essential in their development. And this is what is so strange about our culture. We have this idea that the church is like a business and so there is nothing wrong with creating a kind of social club where there are certain rules that cannot be broken. So we would only think that having a safe place is having a leader who follows the rules. And a lot of this is because we just assume because a guy is a leader that he knows how to lead people. Its amazing to me that people in a church environment will put up with acting and abuse that would never put up with it in the world environment. A so in this environment we turn everything upside down. One of the problems is that we have a lot of moral men running business clubs that are called churches. And i do not mean to say that all churches are like this. I am simply saying that this social reconstruction of the church environment that has been going on for a few generations is very prevalent in our pragmatic culture. I mean who wants a leader who is struggling with alcoholism or something that is sinful , like maybe having a thorn in the flesh that is ugly , and having respect for that man because of the depth of understanding of the gospel because of it? The truth is that if we were to all be husbands and wives at the same time under the same roof lol..thats stretching the truth a bit ..i know.. would we have a different opinion of that person that we seem to think is part of the success of the church club? But yet we are willing to let them present a false view of humanity. Reply Quote Notify

1175  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Tree of Knowledge of good and evil on: June 03, 2012, 02:19:24 PM Yes, we in todays world like the man who is defined and described in terms of his successes. We teach a kind of practical pragmatism. So when we are talking about success our description is to divide the man into a cultural set of goals and morals. And so we say this man was born here and he was educated in this environment and he does this charity etc. And we do the same thing in this new christian economy. Its like making up a resume and by birth, education, experience, and charity we define the core of a successful man. And so the culture has shifted into communicating about success in terms like being the distant principled man who knows how to guide people through principles. But the apostle was a man who argued against the cultural biases of the principled man. The apostle says that he saw no man according to the flesh.When the apostle looked at a man he divided them into two groups. This is why the apostle says that he preached nothing but the gospel. And the apostle proclaimed that he did not speak in the words and wisdom of his day but his words were not the high and beautiful words of the wise men of his day but the words were gospel words that came with the power of God. And so we see that the apostle had applied the gospel to himself and in this wisdom he became the very practical and direct man that was not impressive. So the apostle could make a speech and say that he was nothing and all he accomplished was like do do. lol And in being connected to his people he could say that whatever he did he did it through the grace of God. And in defending the grace of God the apostle sometimes had to defend himself. This is it a very simple man offering nothing of himself but only focused on the glory of God.   Reply Quote Notify

1176  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Kindness and Confrontation on: June 03, 2012, 01:09:40 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 31, 2012, 10:42:03 PM la:  "So the big hairy, with warts, question is: How can we be kindly confrontational?  They seem to be contradictory positions.  We think of a kind person as putting up with all sorts of crap - being verbally, even physically abused and taking it - all with a loving, patient, smile (like Christ).  But there is nothing confrontational about being that way, and it can be very unkind to not confront.  So how do we sort it out.  Thoughts, anyone?" K_k:  I don't see Jesus as just smiling when physically abused, necessarily, but as knowing by the Spirit when to confront and when to accept. And that would be the key, i think.  Not that we will come up with some specific rules about kindness versus confrontation that would always apply to all situations.  But rather, that we can trust the Spirit to give us the boldness / humility / compassion / sternness we need for that specific situation. And we will get it wrong a lot.  And learn a lot.  Slowly trusting Him more and ourselves less.  Our little self-conceived guidelines for living "like Christ" aren't worth anything compared to letting Him live through us.  And practice makes better, even if not perfect. The kindness of God has appeared. There is only one real goodness and kindness in this world. And this kindness is distinctly communicated in detail to all mankind. The rules have been set in stone. But man in his heart has sought to subvert and cover over this kindness by mans sin of rebellion. Because in mans heart is the desire to hate and destroy God. Man is born with not only a rebelliousness to God ruling through kindness but man devises ways by communicating this rebellion to his fellow man. And so if we are talking about the natural moral responsibility of man then we must see that its not wishing to be better or making a new goal of being good but its an evil threat to all that God wishes in this world. This is why man in his natural communication forms his ideas to subvert the truth and to steal and destroy Gods kingdom. God calls this paradigm a man who has trouble dwelling under his tongue. In other words man in planning his way devises trouble for his neighbor as his natural moral ability. The plans of man are on his lips as plotting against God and his neighbor. This is the only communication of a man under sin. But God has come to rule through His revealed word. But man wants to take some of those words and subvert or subdue these words of God. Man by nature is violent toward God. He displays this violence by saying that some of Gods words have no authority. And when man locks up Gods word from the culture then he becomes the violent dictator. And this is why man has an attitude that he can make up the rules. lol Reply Quote Notify

1177  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Evolution vs Intelligent Design - In Search of the Black Cat on: May 31, 2012, 11:46:52 AM Well Poppy im gonna share a little of my struggles so that i can give other people some hope who are struggling. In my young years i was very inward and hard on myself. And this was more than just a little issue. In fact there was some very destructive emotions that were stronger than i could handle. And so i was driven by a hope that these emotions would not control me. Some people call this the dark side. And this dark side would gain the control so to speak of my mind and i would descend into a kind of negative disposition. And so i would experience this intense struggle to control myself. This struggle affected all of my relationships. I had no ability to deal with a relationship that had demands on me as a girl friend or having a family. I was always afraid that my fears and anxiety would over take me and destroy me. But this led me to a desperate need to overcome this experience. I had religious training but it was mixed with all kinds of psychology and philosophy. I was introduced through a Gothard seminar of memorizing scripture. But the first time i went i did not have the discipline or the maturity to practice memorizing scripture. And so i did those things that Gothard was teaching. And i made my conscience like a god. So my conscience and how it was speaking to me either made me extremely happy or it sent me into a guilt and frustration that tempted me to spiral down into anxiety and fear. But through a counselor i was introduced to Loyd Jones. This was the first time i was taught radical grace.  It was a book called spiritual depression.  And i remember reading this book and feeling a sense of it not hitting me hard so i was kind of disconnected to the positive understanding of grace.  But i still had episodes of extreme anxiety and fear trigger by circumstances that arose in my life. And this would drive me to try to find an answer. I remember finding a book about George Muller. And after reading this book the part that stuck out to me was that He used scripture to get himself into a sweet frame of mind and then He would pray. And so after going to this Gothard seminar again and understanding a little about the differences between the doctrines of grace and that teaching i began to memorize my first scripture. I would start in the morning and memorize two scriptures and then build on that the next day with two more scriptures. I think i started in the sermon on the mount. And then i went to Romans 5-8. And after awhile the memorization was fueled by meditation. And at that point i began to meditate nite and day. I would memorize on the way to work and then mediate often. Well this began in my 20s in  a part of my life where i was struggling with holding onto my mental health after raising kids and doing all the stuff ive done its a testimony to the power of scripture to balance out an active mind that basically was attacking me. And as you can see i have a very active mind. I hope i can encourage someone by this.    Reply Quote Notify

1178  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: May 31, 2012, 11:17:21 AM The throne of God is kind of like an array of beauty that He displays in perfect harmony with the balance of His creation. And so God doesnt just act from heaven in a direct way but He displays Himself with this beauty that surrounds His throne. And so you see Him come with thunder and lightening .. on the back of the cherubim...with His chariot. He is a God who is the ultimate artist that paints a picture of His beauty as He enacts judgement upon the wicked who are trying to copy Gods glory. So that all of these visual effects translate into a display of His power, wealth wisdom and strength .. honor, glory and praise. Through out the history of the world God has come in judgment with this created display as a visual display of all of these attributes. Not only has God acted in the beauty of nature but He acts with perfect precision through His heavenly created beings as angels , and cherubim, the seven spirits of God , and even the prayers of His elect.It is through angels as mediators of Gods law who process the interaction between heaven and earth of whom God gives these created things that surround His throne into their hands as weapons that are the curses of the law. In other words there is a heaven in which God dwells with the angels who do is bidding and then there is another part of heaven that contains the heavenly bodies and there is the earth. These angels are Gods messengers of protection and judgement. They do the will of God. But we have this kingdom dwelling in us. And we are commanded to fight the good fight. So in a sense we being the temple of God have His power and honor that we experience. So that our small area of influence is a display of Gods glory not just in terms of the success but in terms of the beauty that is transferred to us in spiritual terms as all of these great created displays that surround His throne. We are so personally connected to the throne of God that He is focused on us individually with all of this array of beauty and power. We experience salvation in light of His transference of this beauty that is directed toward us in our troubles in our earthly experience. We have the ability to see things that are not physical by the descriptions of Gods acts from heaven to earth as He is pictured coming to our rescue in a kind of description you would see in a novel.  We can have our minds transformed to understand this word formation of His beauty so that we are made to praise Him not according to what we see but according to who His is. The more we understand of this beauty and how it is described as condescending to us the more we will fear and honor God as He creates our lives. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1179  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Churches Full-Amening This on: May 30, 2012, 07:05:53 PM Quote from: Lone Arranger on May 30, 2012, 06:55:15 PM Quote That brings up an entirely different topic...pacifism. No it doesn't.  The subject was, as ABCH put, "Is this what is taught in your churches?"  That's the subject.  My subject isn't "pacifism" either.  I'm not speaking to what governments do or don't do to defend themselves or their people, as you misunderstood me to be doing.  My point is the attitude of individual Christians and the churches that they attend... as ABCH put it Quote Is this what is taught in your churches? As far as your questions, I don't have answers for them all...I would need time to consider them one by one, but I suspect my answer would fall along the lines of "Render to Caesar what is Caesar's to God what is God's."  Something like that.  But, to restate, my issue is the attitude of individual Christian's hearts.  It's no less hateful to want to nuke some other country we disagree with in a fit of self righteous rage than to subscribe to genocide for some group of people we personally don't like.  The issue is our hateful self righteous rage, and our desire to inflict it on others.  For sure fear is the real issue in both cases.  Many are very afraid of gays, just as many are very afraid of other groups of all types.  Maybe the real questions is, "How big is your faith?"  "How much do you trust God to protect you from that which you most fear, and are you willing to suffer in humility if Christ has so taught us?"  Or do you set aside all that impractical "bible stuff" to fight the world in the flesh and save God and the bible for Sunday?  What do the scriptures say?  "This is the victory that overcomes the world, even your faith," 1 John 5:4. Self defense is a christian practice. Your affording yourself the advantage to make a point and then defend it .. why not give other people the rite to defend their own positions without you baring them from participating in organized religion. Reply Quote Notify

1180  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Churches Full-Amening This on: May 30, 2012, 06:52:27 PM Willis i think everything has a reason so there are multiple reasons for defending someone of abuse but only God knows the first cause . Or the man who originally devised the long web to entrap someone. Or what the bible calls ensnaring someone. And really there is no measurement of what it is to take advantage of someone in a society in which there is a safety net. My point being that we do not punish people for doing something in an economical sense even tho they are part of the debt. Because its better to encourage work than to make another person part of the safety net. And this is what is so hypocritical about how we live in the past when our country was a free market. But at some point for the sake of dealing with reality we must look at how the money is moving and who is controlling the flow. In other words we must acknowledge that we no longer live with a free market system. And in acknowledging this we must do whats best for ourselves and for our families. Because all of this reinterpreting the original intent of the constitution has consequences that are evil and destructive for all the people who are participating in the economic and political scene. And then as well as looking at the potential down falls in a new socialistic society we must also look at the new power structures that have replaced the original republic. And so these are new systems put in place that are not like the old culture of our democracy. Has religion replaced the social net in terms of government allowances because of separation of church and state? Has the church become its own economy? Where the hierarchy act as the overseers of this economy? You have a job application in place that makes the people your surfs. I dont mean to say this was intentional but everyone involved in this system is kind of a victim. So we need to have wisdom in what kind of power is being exercised and by who. I think we are in a totally different kind of situation that trying to draw from our historical past. You always go with providing for the poor. And then youve got to see how a lot of the direction we are preceding in has laws that prevent us from turning it around in an economical sense. And trying to explain this in terms of nickles and dimes is just foolish. Because the old system of retirement was set in place for people who only lasted 10 yrs. Now that number of years has doubled. And this problem is like looking at a big mess and trying to ignore the causes because you dont want to offend the ones who are the reason for the mess. Of which i would not want to take anything from them either.  So if we are talking about the truth its damn near impossible to turn this around. Reply Quote Notify

1181  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Churches Full-Amening This on: May 30, 2012, 03:33:34 PM With this in mind i am glad i am not God. Because He alone gives life and produces justice and righteousness in this world through law breakers. And in fact i have a few gay friends who i have a lot of respect for. I see this as trying to establish a relationship with another fellow sinner. Im married of course but  it has become clear to me that they bring a lot of positive reinforcement in my world. And so i hug them as i would hug my own heterosexual son. Because i appreciate their talent and contribution through hard work in some of these plays.   Reply Quote Notify

1182  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Churches Full-Amening This on: May 30, 2012, 03:20:24 PM Our constitution was established as a result of applying the ot principles of the judicial and the governmental. This is why we understand that God ordains the development of nations. Yes we have ten commandments but there are principles from the ten commandments that make up the laws in our country. Answering questions on limited government, balance of powers,and individual rites. So that we have as our pledge of allegiance as One nation under God. Without a clear understanding of these principles of government borrowed from the ot we could not establish equity in our nation. The fact is that Jesus did not only come to oppose the religious leaders but also how they ruled as a united government under the authority of God. So that you cannot claim that individual experiences of abuse are just a religious issue. But the reality is that Jesus in cursing the leaders was establishing His authority over that whole system both spiritual and political in response to those violations of law as the abuse of authority. Without the ten commandments and the principles drawn from them as the basis of a free society then God could not judge people on a personal level for those violations. And this is why God establishes covenants as the basis of connecting our free expression with His rite to rule by His laws established for all generations. God could not be God if He was lesser in His activity in this world than His law requires. So to exalt God is not only to recognize that His glory is established in justice, righteousness and equity but that one violation of His law is to receive the curses of the whole law. And this is why man could not develop His own kind of government. Because all of the principles of justice and righteousness are in the creation of the world. So that God must be the one who initiates this relationship to a nation through His covenant promises and demands. To say that God is different in the ot from the nt in His demands on a society is to say that God would cease to be God because He has no standard of justice. The point being that God establishes His rule through covenant as the blessed ie loving way but man who is in sin devises new ways because he has violated Gods laws and thus is cursed. And in this intent man devises ways to be his own god by rebelling against Gods justice and righteousness. Man not only curses himself but he brings misery and sorrow to his fellow man. And i am not trying to just make it sound like we are not involved in a passionate resistance. But rather our prayers are kind of like the clown and the trap door. Evil rulers who abuse others know what they are doing and our prayers are like throwing the ball at the target that unhooks their seat and they fall into eternal suffering. Its like playing with fire. lol       Reply Quote Notify

1183  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Covenant Avenging Sword: John Arrowsmith on: May 30, 2012, 08:27:27 AM I believe in the idea that we all are kind of on water and as we understand how to use wisdom then all the boats rise at the same time. And so i get a little uncomfortable when we are talking about sin as the main issue and not freedom. Because every generation has a cultural bias about sin. And that is important when we are distinguishing between these different cultures and the better understanding of living in liberty. So in a sense we are not talking about God dealing directly with the sins of individuals but in defense of His elect God cannot sit by and allow them to suffer. And this is all part of our view of these things in this world and what Gods purposes are that are different in these different times in history. But we must understand that just because we understand the epistemology of the scripture it does not mean that we can be completely accurate in our view of what could happen in the future. So in a sense we can defuse all of this by our being able to define the worse conditions because of the united effort to erase God from our society and paint it as very harmless. And this is why these Psalms do the very opposite of what the Psalmist is complaining about . In other words these Psalms do not just teach a principle but they diffuse the reality of the complaint. And as i have been saying that these convictions we have a variety of applications according to the time that we are living in. And so we are talking about living our own lives and not going back and living other peoples lives. This is why we may have a totally different view of freedom than in other more unscientific times. And i dont think that God is like an atomic bomb who destroys the good in order to get to the evil. But we may think that our personal desires are secondary to how other people were judged by their success or failure. But our purposes are more important to God and this is why He develops in us a new kingdom through the advancement of societies. And so we live in a time when the water has risen and all the boats have risen along with the water. We have a better understanding of freedom. We do not think that honor is going out the back and having a sword fight when only one person is left standing. So our view of weakness and sin is much different. And this is why i want to draw some distinctions in going through this sermon. Because i believe that God does judge people when there is so much suffering at the hands of evil leaders that it becomes abusive. But at the same time i am willing to let God determine what that judgement is going to be and how He is going to direct it. And i dont want to lose the main point of our special ability to be transparent before God in enjoying a very personal protection that we cannot entirely explain in relation to how nations rise and fall. mbG Remove Reply Quote Notify

1184  Forums / Current Events / Re: Breast Feeding on: May 29, 2012, 02:48:05 PM Quote from: Gouda on May 16, 2012, 02:33:49 PM That's a little skeevy, LA. The thought about society's changed ideals reminded me of the sci-fi book Brave New World. I looked up the summary to make sure it was the right one, and it is.  In that futuristic society, babies are born in hatcheries (test tube babies), and the few women who still had babies naturally were called "savages".  Yes, extreme example, but I think MBG is onto something there about why breastfeeding seems to be "creepy" to some, as Jenni mentioned. I agree here. I appreciate a society not only that breast feeds their children as an example of nurturing their little ones but its a good lesson for men to watch these kids having mothers keeping an eye on them and being involved in their lives. I guess that is more then just doing something like breastfeeding but it gives me a sense of boundaries of wholesome love. This is why we raised out kids to be socially connected to other kids who were being raised and educated by their parents. And in fact i am thankful that this group is still practicing raising their kids in our home school group. My kids are already graduated from high school but i miss going to the functions and enjoying watching the kids grow up and seeing how they connected as they were being taught and watched by their mothers. I believe that innocence can be learned without much trouble if we just got back to being a patriarchal society. I know my son has more brothers than just his biological brother. And seeing him grow into an adult and being connected to others has been just a wonderful experience.   Thanks ladies your much appreciated.     Reply Quote Notify

1185	Forums / Main Forum / Re: Dual Personality Disorder	on: May 29, 2012, 12:59:02 PM
This is the world that a believer is been renewed into. And its like a fairy land. Because God promises to give us health, make us dwell in peace, and enjoy the fruits of the land. This is our personal experience. This is the wonder of belonging to a gracious God who gifts us with all things. Obviously since the world is so against the blessings of God then we have a tendency to lower our standards. And we get confusing messages about what is real humility and what is double mindedness. But the world is not really what we see with our eyes. The world is a kingdom that is in us. We do not become what we are not but we become what we already are. And this is what is so hard about this world. Its knowing how much we are loved but being frustrated because we are always being opposed, held back, trapped in someones schemes, and trying to hold onto those first principles. But most of the time the world gets the best of us and we begin to live in two personalities. But this is what is so unbelievable about our position as sons in our fathers house. We can build convictions and wait on God. Because the only other way to advance is to do things and say things that make us double minded. We can build a big life of hypocrisy. Thats why Jesus says that the only safe way to go is to either hate the one and love the other or hate the other and love the one. You cannot love God and pragmatism. You must believe that God gifts us with all good things and we live in a new world were we have been given rule over the earth. But instead of holding onto our convictions and growing in our new desires we are threaten and forced to compromise. And this is where the hate comes. Because we do not hate holy things but we hate unholy things , those things that come from scorn and abuse. But how can we have a good hate and yet be harmless as doves and wise as serpents? We can bring all of our hate to God and use it to advance with a renewed conviction that we will never be moved. Because once you begin to move from your former love, then you begin to take and own what is not rightfully yours. As long as you are free in the use of gifts then you are free to do as you please but when you reject Gods grace then you are in bondage to the things and the people. And so we are free to bring all of our hate to God. Because God promises that no one can stop us from advancing. No enemy shall over come us. When we express what the situation is in our lives and we begin to release our hate to God then we get wisdom and authority. We begin to move according to Gods time table. And Gods time table is really slow. When we are moving really slow then we are not in danger of being two personalities. When we are waiting on God then we are not endanger of building hypocrisy. God wants us to be freed from the inside out. So that His word will begin to flourish in us and we will be made to dwell in the light of His glory. When we begin to look to His word then we are raised up above this world and we begin to experience a heavenly joy and praise that gives us more confidence that God is on the throne and He will lead us to all that we need. When we look at Christ and we see the glory of God we build a conviction in our hearts that we stand on a rock and we cannot be moved.         1186  Forums / Theology Forum / The Covenant Avenging Sword: John Arrowsmith on: May 29, 2012, 11:23:19 AM I will bring a Sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrell of my Covenant. Lev. 26 25 The personal prayer of the righteous..Ps 17 13 Rise up, Lord, confront them, bring them down; with your sword rescue me from the wicked. Here is a mixture of Nosannas and Anathemas the two mounts Geruzim and Ebal meet in this chapter. Five blessings are promised in case of obedience, from the third to the fortieth, no less then four times five judgements threatened in case of rebellion, as Fiscator reckons up in his analyses, Such is the course of Divine providence:where the Iniquities breaks fast, Calamities will be sure to dine, to sup where it dines, and to lodge where it suppes. Justice requires that the cries of sinne should be answered with an echo of wrath. Witness the words before my Text, If you will not be reformed by these things, but will walk contrary unto me then will i also walk contrary unto you and will punish you yet seven times for you sins. Words that well defervea gloss, and with your leave shall have it. If you will not be reformed by these things , to wit, the aforementioned plagues. The end of Gods striking is to reform, the end of his reforming , to save.He embitters the creatures as with Aloes to wean us from them, and give our fouls occasion of seeking to those full breasts of the Lord Jesus, which do even for want of drawing, and run most freely when they are most heartily suckered. For men to continue unreformed notwithstanding these things is a beastly,yea diabolical part 5 senseless and ye brutish among the people , he that chastise the heathen shall (He) not be correct?   Psalm 94 10 we say, Vnderst and ye devilish among the people, for to be always suffering , never repenting, is the property of infernal spirits. Trying my best at copying this old english.  Psalm 94 Is a prayer of the king on behalf of Gods remnant who are suffering at the hands of the" proud". The proud are those who have ignored God and will not have God in their thoughts. When men avoid Gods word they devise evil schemes to overthrow Gods rule and Gods King. The contrast is God who rules from heaven and man who tries to thwart Gods purposes and thus to attack Gods elect. This King in heaven considers all the thoughts of man as futile. That is these thoughts translate into schemes to destroy the righteous and God will bring these schemes to be the judgement that the schemers have created. They refuse to reform so that God will draw His sword and while the elect suffer because of these destructive ways God really is preparing the wicked to fall into their own schemes. That is Gods thoughts endure forever while nations cease to exist.   This is sort of like a Psalm with the circumstances as Israel mounted on their horses and lined up to assume their positions for a battle. And the question is Why are we going to war? And so the king rises to his throne and sits to speak. And as the king speaks then God begins to ascend to His throne. So God makes His pronouncements as the word of deliverance. (My opinion this is the Lamb taking the scroll.) And so you have this argument that is building a case that will eventually have God sitting on His throne so that His kingdom is established not only in the heavens but on the earth. And this is kind of like a recurring theme of redemption of nations rising and falling.   mbG Reply Quote Notify 1187  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Calvin's Doctrine of the Knowledge of God: Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield on: May 28, 2012, 09:01:47 AM The elements of Calvin's thought here, it will readily be seen, reduce themselves to a few great fundamental principles. These embrace particularly the following doctrines: the doctrine of the innate knowledge of God; the doctrine of the general revelation of God in nature and history; the doctrine of the special revelation of God and its embodiment in Scriptures; the doctrine of the noetic effects of sin; the doctrine of the testimony of the Holy Spirit. That we may do justice to his thought we must look in some detail at his treatment of each of these doctrines and of the subordinate topics which are necessarily connected with them. I. NATURAL REVELATION That the knowledge of God is innate (I. iii. 3), naturally engraved on the hearts of men (I. iv. 4), and so a part of their very constitution as men (I. iii. 1), that it is a matter of instinct (I. iii. 1, I. iv. 2), and every man is self-taught it from his birth (I. iii. 3), Calvin is thoroughly assured. He lays it down as incontrovertible fact that "the human mind, by natural instinct itself, possesses some sense of a deity" (I. iii. 1, ad init. et ad fin.; 3 - sensus divinitatis or deitatis),3 and defends the corollaries which flow from this fact, that the knowledge of God is universal and indelible. All men know there is a God, who has made them, and to whom they are responsible. No savage is sunk so low as to have lost this sense of deity, which is wrought into his very constitution: and the degradation of men's worship is a proof of its ineradicableness - since even such dehumanization as this worship manifests has not obliterated it (I. iii. 1). It is the precondition of all religion, without which no religion would ever have arisen; and it forms the silent assumption of all attempts to expound the origin of religion in fraud or political artifice, as it does also of all corruptions of religion, which find their nerve in men's incurable religious propensities (I. iii. 1). The very atheists testify to its persistence in their ill-concealed dread of the deity they profess to despise (I. iv. 2); and the wicked, strive they ever so hard to banish from their consciousness the sense of an accusing deity, are not permitted by nature to forget it (I. iii. 3). Thus the cases alike of the savages, the atheists, and the wicked are made contributory to the establishment of the fact, and the discussion concludes with the declaration that it is by this innate knowledge of God that men are discriminated from the brutes, so that for men to lose it would be to fall away from the very law of their creation (I. iii. 3, ad fin.).4 Remove Reply Quote Notify 1188  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Evolution vs Intelligent Design - In Search of the Black Cat on: May 28, 2012, 08:37:25 AM Quote from: poppy on May 27, 2012, 10:53:22 PM Hey Tom, I tried to quote your comment to me but after twice I've given up. So, I've read your comment three times and found nothing rude. (maybe I'm too dumb to be insulted) LOL But I also found nothing that I thought that I disagreed with so maybe try being rude enough to get me to understand where we disagree. Thanks Bro I apologize for the difficulty. Actually ive had good relationships with some people on here. And i dont think i would disagree with you Poppy. I think youve been pretty balanced in your writing. That last post i wrote was not to disagree with you. I think there are a few arguments that are said from both sides arminininst and Worm Calvinistic theology that get my feathers up. I dont think i disagree with someone just to disagree. Thats why people like TB, Bill and the women ive rarely had a strong disagreement with them. And in fact i am kind of in agreement with Bill because he talks about the old faith based salvation. And i believe there is a kind of work of the Spirit like dedication. Bill understands my position from the 70s revival movement.   Reply Quote Notify 1189  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Evolution vs Intelligent Design - In Search of the Black Cat on: May 27, 2012, 01:02:40 PM Quote from: poppy on May 27, 2012, 12:29:12 PM Ignorance is bliss but what if: He didn't split them at all. Perhaps Adam, being the first man, was created perfect. Perhaps He, the creator of DNA and genetic code, took the rib, switched on or off a few genomes for desired effect such as the xy chromosone and whatever else He thought suitable for Adam's helpmeat/completer, Eve, mother of humanity, and wahla! finished. And God saw that it was very good. Adam lived some 900+ years after his fall from Eden, I think its safe to say he did not poccess the genetic mutations we find common in our society today which makes us grow old before our time. Even after God limited our days to 120yrs, most of us have a hard time keeping our bodies in tune for that long. Those microevolutionary changes in our DNA over time have nearly all had negative effects to our longevity. Perhaps sometime we could discuss the very few fossils found that have led some scientist to conclude that man evolved from or along side other homosapiens such as cromagnon man and neandethal man? Sorry my spelling sucks. I dont read enough cause it hurts my eyes after about ten minutes. Poppy i dont mean to be rude but i will interject here. I believe that God created the source as well as the effects of that source if extended in time to be all in one day.  And so I believe that God is over second causes as a continuous created activity. So that our knowledge of the physical universe as compared to Gods knowledge does not just involve God understanding things by process as we do but that all things including the position of particles are in His sight. God knows all things intimately at one time. And this is what is so cool about the real self. God who is in Himself the image of the real good created us as individuals so that we are only good because God created us for His purpose and those purposes are in God that end in Him getting the glory because all that He creates is good. Now here is the thing. God knows the intimate detail of our genetic life. I believe unless God has determined before time that we would have disease and the exact time we experience it and its duration that our spiritual experience is related to our physical wellness. So that He compares our lives as a spiritual worship to Him. Which involves a gift of new life in us. So that the more we know God the more we see that His thoughts are beyond our ability to know. And so we are drawn to depend upon Him in a way in which we experience this new life as if we were feasting at a table of all the good foods. So this is compared to health to our bones. Its kind of compared to being filled with the Spirit. So we experience a kind of personality that moves from our head to our toes in God converting us. Reply Quote Notify 1190  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Evolution vs Intelligent Design - In Search of the Black Cat on: May 27, 2012, 12:47:39 PM Quote from: billbennett on May 27, 2012, 09:09:23 AM Beacon, That is a good point that I had not considered. Let me think about that aspect and I will respond shortly. MERKS, Another good question. Here are some facts related to your question. Proteins show remarkable sameness within species. For example, human insulin is the same for every person, the same amino acid sequence exactly. When you move from one species to another, the picture changes, the proteins are not the same. A practical illustration: for years in medicine we used insulin extracted from pig pancreas to treat diabetes. It worked, but there were problems related to the differences between pig and human insulin in their amino acid sequence. Now we have the technology to incorporate the gene for human insulin into bacteria and other microorganisms, and they produce the human insulin that we need. A much improved drug has resulted, and today diabetics are treated with human rather than pig insulin. So yes, there is remarkable homology (sameness) for the DNA that codes for different proteins and other components of the human body. The question Beacon asked will require more research on my part, that of whether two individuals could provide the genentic diversity to provide for the variety of phenotypes (these are the physical expression of the genetics) that we see in the human race. But I would think that the odds of two genetically complete humans giving rise to the human race are much better than beginning with one single cell bacteria Got to go for now. Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Putting these thoughts down is really helping me get started on a book I am planning that will bear the same name as this thread. Pray for me that I will have time and the singleness of mind to complete this project. Bill Bill i was wondering if because of the ongoing process of generations in having children , if there was a degeneration in the gene pool? And whether mixing races in the physical sense would be aversive to the propagation of health...not because a race is evil but because of sin and corruption that accompanies different races and the natural susceptibility in the mixing. And i was wondering how much the scientific discoveries have offset  this natural diluting of the gene pool as well as the negative environmental effects through disease. Reply Quote Notify 1191  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Called to Suffer: on: May 27, 2012, 12:06:55 PM Ladies I agree about helping other people and meeting needs. And yet for every story of the Ron and Sharons there are so many others who are less fortunate. But i am very encouraged by hearing this testimony. Im really not one to engage someone in a disagreement. You can ask anyone but i would rather avoid this kind of thing. But ive been drawn into this and its also at a time in my life where i have a perspective by living through these changing times and seeing some very profound changes in our culture that will effect your kids lives for quite awhile. And I am not really worried about my own situation because if youve ever suffered from depression all the other things in life seem to be quite unimportant. I dont mean that for other people going through these changes is not real and painful but ive really focused on gifting my wife and children with as much full life as i possibly could knowing my own limitations. But i understand that being the bad guy is part of the calling of the christian. And its even hard for me to say that God is angry. And i know there is a lot of people who enforce their own power by using this as a tool. But its difficult because when we go to God its not just that He is sweet and passive but He is dangerous and mysterious. And this danger is sometimes not understood by people. Im trying to walk very lightly here. But even my experience in this praying the Psalms in my room or in the house has been an eye opening experience with everyone who is overhearing some of the prayers. I will be honest with you that for me the experience has been that sometimes I really feel that Christ is walking with me. I absolutely feel a sense of wonder and amazement in this spiritual fellowship. I really believe that God can gift us with things that are too wonderful for us to imagine. And this really is what i want for my own household. I want to see these gifts being stirred up in them and having a wonder at the rewards they are receiving. Im not satisfied that they are just getting along but i spend a lot of time asking and pleading with God to baptize them with gifts that are really evident to me for my own enjoyment. And so even with all the ministry over the years and the countless people that my wife has helped i am still moving on to more greater things that i could not imagine. I sometimes lose my voice trying to get all of the scorn out of my life. For years ive lived a very animated life. But i understand that people do not know what goes on inside of other people so i am fine with just trying to describe this. But i really do have an artistic family. And now because of their imagination and the selflessness as a way of life i am being blessed to enjoy living with and seeing such gifted people. And this is my desire. Its to dwell in supernatural wonder all of my life and to fight even if everyone rejects my efforts.     Reply Quote Notify 1192  Forums / Main Forum / Re: What's the point of being religious? on: May 27, 2012, 10:48:23 AM Quote from: Lone Arranger on May 27, 2012, 09:08:26 AM Quote So if "being good" isn't the point, then what is "the point"? Gaining salvation through faith in Christ, and then sharing with others the great truth you've found.  Everything else?  Dust in the wind. Quote If someone knows they aren't "perfect", then isnt it a waste of time to dwell and obsess on it "religiously"? Yes! As far as our relationship with God is concerned.  Hence the scripture that salvation is by faith not works. Eph 2:8 Quote You know most people think Christianity and religions are simply about being good. Most non-Christians, the world at large, and sadly some Christians think this about Christianity.  We need to tell them otherwise.  That Christianity is about Christ - hence the name. Other religions ARE about being good, i.e. works, whether they are based on reincarnation, whatever.  This is why Christianity is the only unique faith in the world.  Only Christianity is about what Christ has done.  All other belief systems, bar none, are about what man does or fails to do.  This is why they are so vain and prideful.  A true understanding of faith in Christ requires the surrender of pride and the idea that there is anything we can possibly add to what Christ has already done for us - if we only believe and accept it.   This is not necessarily true. The church is not primarily a mission church but its a Shepherd church. Because the church is a place where the members are built up. The purpose of being Christ to other people is to prepare the people to go out into the world. So the church does not involve themselves in how the people are going to live in the world but they teach sound doctrine as the way to correct and discipline. I disagree that the salvation message as it is spoken to the world should be preached in the church every week. But the church is a place where the gospel is a christian gospel. Its a gospel that provides grace to those who need it. The believers then are built up in grace and they go out and preach that grace to the world. So the church is the support of the people both spiritually and physically. The health of the church is seen in the success of its people. The church is not a place to involve themselves in telling people what they already know. Its to teach sound doctrine so that the people are built up. Reply Quote Notify 1193  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Called to Suffer: on: May 27, 2012, 06:06:12 AM Yes i agree ...I dont think anyone could disagree and hate something and still say they are turning the other cheek. If you disagreeing and defending your position then thats the same thing as self defense. God is not all loving at the expense of His anger. Nor is He all angry at the expense of His love. But God is both loving and angry. Reply Quote Notify 1194  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: May 26, 2012, 03:18:38 PM Verses from The Banishing Sword of the Covenant... Micah 2 2 Woe to those who plan iniquity,     to those who plot evil on their beds! At morning’s light they carry it out     because it is in their power to do it. 2 They covet fields and seize them,     and houses, and take them. They defraud people of their homes,     they rob them of their inheritance. Jer. 47 6 “‘Alas, sword of the Lord,     how long till you rest? Return to your sheath;     cease and be still.’ 7 But how can it rest     when the Lord has commanded it, when he has ordered it     to attack Ashkelon and the coast?” Jer. 50 25 The Lord has opened his arsenal     and brought out the weapons of his wrath, for the Sovereign Lord Almighty has work to do     in the land of the Babylonians. Ez. 30 25 I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, but the arms of Pharaoh will fall limp. Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I put my sword into the hand of the king of Babylon and he brandishes it against Egypt. Deu. 32 40 I lift my hand to heaven and solemnly swear:     As surely as I live forever, 41 when I sharpen my flashing sword     and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries     and repay those who hate me. 42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,     while my sword devours flesh: the blood of the slain and the captives,     the heads of the enemy leaders.” Jer. 46 15 Why will your warriors be laid low?     They cannot stand, for the Lord will push them down. 16 They will stumble repeatedly;     they will fall over each other. They will say, ‘Get up, let us go back     to our own people and our native lands,     away from the sword of the oppressor.’ Jer. 50 35 “A sword against the Babylonians!”     declares the Lord— “against those who live in Babylon     and against her officials and wise men! 36 A sword against her false prophets!     They will become fools. A sword against her warriors!     They will be filled with terror. 37 A sword against her horses and chariots     and all the foreigners in her ranks!     They will become weaklings. A sword against her treasures!     They will be plundered. Jer 13 12 “Say to them: ‘This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Every wineskin should be filled with wine.’ And if they say to you, ‘Don’t we know that every wineskin should be filled with wine?’ 13 then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am going to fill with drunkenness all who live in this land, including the kings who sit on David’s throne, the priests, the prophets and all those living in Jerusalem. 14 I will smash them one against the other, parents and children alike, declares the Lord. I will allow no pity or mercy or compassion to keep me from destroying them.’” Prov. 29 7 The righteous care about justice for the poor,     but the wicked have no such concern. 8 Mockers stir up a city,     but the wise turn away anger. Rev. 6 3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword. Jer. 32 37 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety. 38 They will be my people, and I will be their God. 39 I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them. Remove Reply Quote Notify 1195  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Called to Suffer: on: May 26, 2012, 01:30:31 PM Let me explain something here. Satan wants us to not be confident in Gods salvation. The way he does this is through getting us to weigh our sins against Gods standards. Now listen to me. God has given us a remedy that is outside of our experience. And its not just what was done in one act at the cross but its the word of that act. The word of that act is the word of creation. All of Gods order in this world is through His holy purposes. So that in His foreknowledge everything that is redeemed is through His plan to make all things to be renewed. Now listen Gods plans for us are not to harm us but to bless us because He speaks this word as a new created word with the work that is necessary to make it stick in our lives because of the work on the cross. This word is the word of salvation. In the ot they were looking forward to this word.. A Word made flesh. But now we have a more faithful word. This word that was implanted in us that can make us wise unto our continuously being saved. This word of salvation is our connection to all that God is doing in a supernatural way. When He comes back .. will He find faith? Will that word be ongoing? Yes He said those things in the beatitudes but they are eternal words. And so all of these beatitudes from the ot and the nt have not failed because Christ has done the work of renewal.Oh speak Your word and all will be well!    Reply Quote Notify 1196  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Called to Suffer: on: May 26, 2012, 01:05:49 PM Here is the doctrine. God covenants with His people to love them with an everlasting love. But there are people and i might add that unsaved people can be planted in leadership in a church that can lead to a declension and finally dead worship. But God distinguishes His covenant people by spiritual circumcision in describing them as calling on the name of the Lord. This phrase is a covenant phrase that places our confidence in Gods unfailing love. So our relationship to God as His covenant people is that we are not confident in ourselves but the knowledge of His love for us. Our most intense petitions that move us to a confidence that we cannot describe is when we call on God according to His unfailing love. God wants us to petition Him based upon His covenant attributes. Because God wants all the praise to go to Him. And the more we praise and know His faithfulness , love, long suffering, and kindness the more we will see His name being magnified in our culture. So that God is both the one who holds back evil and the one who comes in a way that we are converted to a new understanding that God has been among us. Now there are references to the wicked in a context of our relationship to this faithful God. So its like He is in the house with us pointing through the window and saying they are in this other relationship. And in doing this He actually is defending His name in giving pointing that out about them. This is what i call God redeeming our failure and smiling on our struggles. He actually in disciplining us is preparing the day of their destruction. This is the context.    Reply Quote Notify 1197  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: old slew foot on: May 26, 2012, 12:43:41 PM I dont think that Satan attacks us directly through people who seem to have the special evil. But He attacks the success of the gospel. And so this is a spiritual warfare. And its most felt when a person experiences success in the mist of an evil society in which everyone who sees the success is subject to the effects of it and there is a clear reaction. Some people rejoice and others scoff.  And this is the end of our battle. Its to see the worship of God at its clearest light in a world in which Satan controls the minds of His children. How do we struggle to see this day? We fight with spiritual weapons. You know we have this imagination that the world moves along by wise advice and good actions. But the world moves by prophecy. It moves by a very simple communication from heaven to earth. Any success that we experience on a level that is not common among men in God coming into society is God acting to bring it about and not mans planning. We are always focused on style and success but God wants to continually draw near to us so that we experience His love more and more clear. Our goal is to have a focus that comes from intense prayer and struggling with these spiritual weapons. Because we can be converted to a freedom that gives us memories of Gods faithful response to our persistence. And this is what the Devil is actively opposing. Its God being exalted where there is the presence of joy unspeakable and full of glory. The Devil does not really come with the pitch fork and the long tail but he comes as an angel of light. The Devil is the king of the religion of man. The devil uses works to oppose the free grace of God. And i really believe that if we understood the clear teaching of the free grace of God .. that gospel would resonate through out the world and completely destroy the works of the Devil. But we are so weak and we do not resist and fight a good fight. We do not engage ourselves in clear and precise prayers but we get distracted by side issues. But really in prayer we ascend to the worship that is on high and we experience a freedom in fighting to go up to this worship. And the more we fight and persevere the more i believe that we will see God coming down in our world and getting the praise that we see in eternity. We fight with the sword of the word in prayer. Thats when we begin to fight against the devils schemes. And dont give me this going up to heaven the apostle was talking about thats not what i am saying. Reply Quote Notify 1198  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Called to Suffer: on: May 26, 2012, 12:08:46 PM Suffer for doing what is wrong is a reference to a reprobate. How can God prove that suffering for wrong when the next verse He says that He took the place of those who were not justified in their actions and made them just? And in fact the believer not only has a promise that God who is the only one who is justified in His acts also forgets our sins and separates us from our sins as far as the east is from the west? How does God justify sinners so that He gets the glory? He actually promises to be with them by sending to them His Holy Spirit who is an our advocate. The Holy Spirit works with the word to vindicate Gods people. How does the Holy Spirit act on our behalf? He actually works through our prayers. So all the scripture is God breathed and is to our own profit. The Holy Spirit ask us to curse all those who do not have our best interest. Because all of Gods people practice grace. The Holy Spirit will not always strive with those who strive with the grace covenant. He will vindicate Gods righteousness in accusing His children before God. let me get that verse.   Leviticus 26:25 25 And I will bring the sword on you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. 1. War is a judgment of God’s own bringing. 2. The sword is an instrument of vengeance, and, 3. That which the sword comes to avenge, is some quarrel of God’s Covenant http://www.puritandownloads.com/swrb/products/The-Covenant%252dAvenging-Sword-by-John-Arrowsmith.html I wished i could get this book on line. If any one can find it give me the link. Reply Quote Notify 1199  Forums / Main Forum / Re: What's the point of being religious? on: May 26, 2012, 11:44:49 AM G i think we live in a day when we like to divide all of these circumstances up and make them agree with the scripture. And i think this was what they were doing in Joshuas day. They were saying that God was not able to provide them with all they need so they believed that how the other nations appeared to them as successful was the answer to one problem. And so they were wavering between the success they saw by the nations and the promises of God. And this is why we need to believe the whole gospel. Because the gospel describes the awful state that all men are in. And it kind of creates these second causes in light of the eternal purposes of God rather than a direct reflection of these individual cultures. Because the gospel gives us causes that go farther than cleaning up little messes. It provides us with the argument that the grace of God is the only hope for man not falling into more evil and more depravity. The argument of the gospel is that all men are in a hopeless state because of sin and the only remedy is God coming to man. How does God come to man? He comes to man as the one who provides for the entire race of man at each moment of all mens lives. So Gods view as a covenant keeping God is that all of the events in this world are brought about by His word and it is not always known to man as to the purposes of God in acting on this universal scale. From mans view what needs to be accomplished is the temptation to take the glory of God and provide a confidence in these national purposes. And so God is saying why are you vacillating in between pragmatism and grace? And so God has made it so that the message is more important than the apparent success.   And this is why it is so hard for men to get along because if everyone was in a hopeless state and one person received grace dont you think that the people would encourage that person as the basis of glorifying God for His work being accomplished? But instead because of sin people think that sin and treachery are not the same thing. They do not see sin as something a person is as being defined in his disposition but they see the evil act or the bad behavior and they forget that they were or are in a hopeless state and for the grace of God goes everyone.  So because men believe that they can define their own terms then they actually become their own god. And this is what is so serious about grace . Its made to kind of hit you in the face. How can a sinner claim to be righteous in the company of other sinners who care nothing about God and yet appear to be better citizens? If i were making the plan i would save someone and then make them examples of my plan by them acting in a way in which everyone would look and say this guy is a class act. But I think God knows people better than they know themselves. There is a number of angles i could take here but i will take this one. God figures that no matter how good a person appears in a depraved society ... I mean look a Job..   the most righteous man in the universe... and yet no one stepped forward to give Job a real view but they picked on his sin and weakness. In other words their treachery was worse than Job standing as guilty in the works covenant. This is a problem that only God can cure. He promises to love His people not according to their sins but according to His name. And yet sometimes His people are worse than those who are treacherously pointing fingers. I do not know why God made it this way but i think it was because God who is unchangeable establishes a relationship through His covenant and is not a pragmatic God who reacts like a drunk. In other words God is more concerned for grace than He is that His children always appear innocent.   Reply Quote Notify 1200  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Calvin's Doctrine of the Knowledge of God: Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield on: May 25, 2012, 09:26:55 PM Drawn out a little more into detail, this teaching is as follows. The knowledge of God is given in the very same act by which we know self. For when we know self, we must know it as it is: and that means we must know it as dependent, derived, imperfect, and responsible being. To know self implies, therefore, the co-knowledge with self of that on which it is dependent, from which it derives, by the standard of which its imperfection is revealed, to which it is responsible. Of course, such a knowledge of self postulates a knowledge of God, in contrast with whom alone do we ever truly know self: but this only the more emphasises the fact that we know God in knowing self, and the relative priority of our knowledge of two objects of knowledge which we are conscious only of knowing together may for the moment be left undetermined. Meanwhile, it is clear than man has an instinctive and ineradicable knowledge of God, which, moreover, must produce appropriate reactions in his thought, feeling, and will, whence arises what we call religion. But these reactions are conditioned by the state of the soul which reacts. Although, then, man cannot avoid possessing a knowledge of God, and this innate knowledge of God is quickened and developed by the richest manifestations of God in nature and providence, which no man can escape either perceiving or so far apprehending, yet the actual knowledge of God which is framed in the human soul is affected by the subjective condition of the soul. The soul, being corrupted by sin, is dulled in its instinctive apprehension of God; and God's manifestation in nature and history is deflected in it. Accordingly the testimony of nature to God is insufficient that sinful man should know Him aright, and God has therefore supernaturally revealed Himself to His people and deposited this revelation of Himself in written Scriptures. In these Scriptures alone, therefore, do we possess an adequate revelation of God; and this revelation is attested as such by irresistible external evidence and attests itself as such by such marks of inherent divinity that no normal mind can resist them. But the sin-darkened minds to which it appeals are not normal minds, but disordered with the awful disease of sin. What is to give subjective effect in a sin-blinded mind to even a direct revelation from God? The revelation of God is its own credential. It needs no other light to be thrown upon it but that which emanates from itself: and no other light can produce the effect which its own splendor as a revelation of God should effect. But all fails when the receptivity is destroyed by sin. For sinners, therefore, there is requisite a repairing operation upon their souls before the light of the Word itself can accredit itself to them as light.  This repairing operation on the souls of sinful men by which they are enabled to perceive light is called the testimony of the Holy Ghost: which is therefore just the subjective action of the Spirit of God on the heart, by virtue of which it is opened for the perception and reception of the objective revelation of God. The testimony of the Spirit cannot, then, take the place of the objective revelation of the Word: it is no revelation in this strict sense. It presupposes the objective revelation and only prepares the heart to respond to and embrace it. But the objective revelation can take no effect on the unprepared heart.  What the operation of the Spirit on the heart does, then, is to implant, or rather to restore, a spiritual sense in the soul by which God is recognized in His Word. When this spiritual sense has been produced the necessity of external proofs that the Scriptures are the Word of God is superseded:  the Word of God is as immediately perceived as such as light is perceived as light, sweetness as sweetness - as immediately and as inamissibly. The Christian's knowledge of God, therefore, rests no doubt on an instinctive perception of God native to man as man, developed in the light of a patefaction of God which pervades all nature and history; but particularly on an objective revelation of God deposited in Scriptures which bear in themselves their own evidence of their divine origin, to which every spiritual man responds with the same strength of conviction with which he recognizes light as light. This is the basis which Calvin in his " Institutes " places beneath his systematic exposition of the knowledge of God.