1501	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: John 3:13-18.... Commentary.... John Calvin	on: March 15, 2012, 12:25:05 PM
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world. It is a confirmation of the preceding statement; for it was not in vain that God sent his own Son to us. He came not to destroy; and therefore it follows, that it is the peculiar office of the Son of God, that all who believe may obtain salvation by him. There is now no reason why any man should be in a state of hesitation, or of distressing anxiety, as to the manner in which he may escape death, when we believe that it was the purpose of God that Christ should deliver us from it. The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded, if he only keep the road of faith. The word judge (πρίνω) is here put for condemn, as in many other passages. When he declares that he did not come to condemn the world, he thus points out the actual design of his coming; for what need was there that Christ should come to destroy us who were utterly ruined? We ought not, therefore, to look at any thing else in Christ, than that God, out of his boundless goodness chose to extend his aid for saving us who were lost; and whenever our sins press us — whenever Satan would drive us to despair — we ought to hold out this shield, that God is unwilling that we should be overwhelmed with everlasting destruction, because he has appointed his Son to be the salvation of the world. When Christ says, in other passages, that he is come to judgment, (John 9:39;) when he is called a stone of offense, (1 Peter 2:7;) when he is said to be set for the destruction of many, (Luke 2:34:) this may be regarded as accidental, or as arising from a different cause; for they who reject the grace offered in him deserve to find him the Judge and Avenger of contempt so unworthy and base. A striking instance of this may be seen in the Gospel; for though it is strictly the power of God for salvation to every one who believeth, (Romans 1:16,) the ingratitude of many causes it to become to them death. Both have been well expressed by Paul, when he boasts of having vengeance at hand, by which he will punish all the adversaries of his doctrine after that the obedience of the godly shall have been fulfilled, (2 Corinthians 10:6) The meaning amounts to this, that the Gospel is especially, and in the first instance, appointed for believers, that it may be salvation to them; but that afterwards believers will not escape unpunished who, despising the grace of Christ, chose to have him as the Author of death rather than of life.
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1502  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Sin vs mistake on: March 14, 2012, 09:48:35 AM A lot of people miss represent sin as just a moral violation of the law. Because all christians sin. And yet its not just a matter of forgiveness that separates the christian from the reprobate. But sin is also a conspiracy to declare independence from God. I dont mean just to rebel but to conspire in the rebellion. This is why i do not believe that power and control are only opposed to a believe between man and man. But the bible talks about the system of man as opposed to the rule of God. I guess we have this in the word world . It really is not the physical world but its the course of the world. Nor is it that the course is mystical but it involves real men who conspire in their defiance against GOD. So the first tablet of the law defines real authority and the second tablet defines how that authority is expressed in community. So that God alone proves that He alone rules all peoples. If we do not understand who God is in the first two commandments then all of the authority expressed downward will be to rule with impunity. I do not think we have been accurate to just make this about what goes on in between two people. You have this same vengeance described in Revelation. You have these saints who are being subject to ruthless leaders who are being put to death. And God is kind of dealing with this promise to protect His sheep in two ways. Some of the sheep destroy their enemies on this earth. But some of the sheep are put to death and suffer greatly at the hands of ruthless people. But upon entering heaven they stand before the Lamb and say How long until you judge the inhabitants of the earth? Then the Lamb tells them that He is holding off until the last one is killed and then He will judge. But after these prayers we have the 3 woes of the trumpets. These are judgements enacted upon evil governments.    Reply Quote Notify

1503  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Sin vs mistake on: March 14, 2012, 08:41:58 AM Psalm 32:10 Many are the woes of the wicked, but the LORD’s unfailing love surrounds the one who trusts in him. Woe and curses are interchangeable words.Many are the curses of the wicked. Isaiah 3:11 Woe to the wicked! Disaster is upon them! They will be paid back for what their hands have done. Woe as well as curses has the idea of God getting vengeance on the wicked. We have a promise that the the wicked spies on the righteous yet God is watching them and will avenge the poor. The whole concept of cursing is built on the idea that the reprobate do not think that God is watching and so they do evil to their neighbor with impunity. The response to them getting away with their impunity is that God will avenge in His time. In this way the law curses the wicked. When Israel was given the law they had to publicly agree to follow all the law. But they had the promise of grace to cover over their breaking the law. So they responded that they would keep the law by Gods power.. and they also had to say may the curses fall on anyone who breaks these laws. So it was a wish for vengeance. They were not allowed to take their own vengeance on the wicked. Only in a war time situation could they enact punishment on their enemies. But law does not have any power if there are no curses. This is a vivid picture here. When Moses came down after the giving of the law the people had erected an idol. So God wanted to destroy them. But Moses interceded for the people. But the people were given an option. Either they got rid of their idol and agreed to the stipulations of the law in standing on one side or they could stand with the other group and keep their idols. So they grouped together on either side. Then God told the group that got rid of their idols to kill those who were in the other group. Their on country men.. their own family etc. This is the picture that Jesus was talking about when He was saying that they could not put anyone one before Him. He was pointing to the giving of the law. So they faced Judaism in the NT as following Jesus meant that they would be treated by their family as being dead.      Reply Quote Notify

1504  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Real Gospel on: March 13, 2012, 05:11:32 PM Quote from: beacon2 on March 13, 2012, 01:20:16 PM Quote Posted by MBG: But the biblical teaching of righteousness is that we are declared righteous in a legal sense. We are not intrinsically righteous as Christ. But we are legally able to stand without blame because Christ obtain true righteousness by meeting the requirements of the law. If  I understand you correctly MBG,  the righteousness you are speaking of in the phrases I highlighted above is the righteousness that comes thru faith in Christ. But in effect, what you are speaking of here is the 1st righteousness that is necessary for salvation (the birth of water),  and that is the one that came thru the Cross.  This is not the righteousness that comes thru faith. When you say that we “are declared righteous in a legal sense” that became true for ALL ADAMIC MEN right after  Christ said, “It is finished.” (I realize that the reformed view is that Christ only died for the elect.  But the bible says otherwise.) God declared all Adamic men righteous in a legal sense because everything necessary to bring to a  complete close the First Covenant was fulfilled by Christ, namely, that He paid the penalty (spiritual death) for all of Adamic men’s sins committed under the First Covenant. But even though Christ paid the penalty for sin, Adamic men were still unclean because of their sins.  Therefore,  Christ washed all Adamic men clean with His blood, which gained God’s forgiveness for all Adamic men then. However, Adamic men (though cleansed and forgiven of all their sins) still remained as Adamic men in need of the new birth in the Spirit (2d justification). I've kept using the phrase “Adamic men” because Christ did not pay for the “sins” of Christ's (the second Adam) children.  The reason for that is that Christ’s children (new creations in the Spirit) are sinless under the New Covenant. More on how Christ met the requirements of the law (which one?) next. b2 This is kind of convoluted to historical whatever. lol If you look the apostle does not distinguish those in adam into two groups. But he puts those in adam as born in sin and at enmity with God. 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned— Rom 5  13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come. So adam is the Federal head of all men who are under sin. These men are under the curse of sin which is death.    15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! Judgement follows Adams sin and brings condemnation to all men. So all of those in Adam are born in sin and are under condemnation. But there is another man who was a representative of the new race. When we receive salvation and justification of our sins we are made new in Christ and we begin to be renewed. And here he is also saying that the sin of Adam produced condemnation to everyone in the whole world as a cause ..but Christ death and resurrection was gifted so that we are justified of every sin that we commit. one =a simple condition to all men of death... One=justification of all the sins we commit.. a multitude   18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Those who are still in their sins are condemned in Adam.. those who are justified in Christ are made new and have eternal life. Its pretty self explanatory here. Reply Quote Notify

1505  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Sin vs mistake on: March 13, 2012, 02:45:20 PM Matt 23 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.    5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.    8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. Now here Christ is using a separation argument. Hes not saying that they must exhibit humility but he is distinguishing between the righteous and the self righteous. So before He says the curses He actually tells them they are reprobate. 13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14]    15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.    16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.    23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.    25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.    27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.    29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started! Actually this is real love for leaders. 1 Cor 16  22 If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed! Come, Lord Gal. 1 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! Then he repeats himself for showing how important it is. 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Gal.3  10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” This is the ot curses of the law being brought into the new covenant. Reply Quote Notify

1506  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Sin vs mistake on: March 13, 2012, 02:01:28 PM Kk quoted the scripture "If we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." Here he is not talking about confessing sin because there is no possible way that we can confess all our sins. But John is talking about a general attitude towards our sins. And in fact John is leaving it up to the word as the authority ..that being that Christ has already taken care of our sins. And the protection of those who we have fellowship with. I do not see burdening someone out of anger or trying to create a process by which we are forgiven. But it seems that the fellowship is one of love. To often we read this as two line. Our responsibility and Gods promises. But that does not address the attitude of grace. Paul said of the slave who had debts..." put it to my account." What we are talking about is the general welfare of the church and one person acting as a defense for another. The church is meeting needs as having fellowship. Its redeeming the person in the full sense.  I do not see any other option sense we are required to curse those who do not have our best interest. Or we curse those who do not delight in the well being of His servants. I dont mean cursing our brothers but this is the only option we have and at some point we get to this practice. John is not being overly sensitive here. Reply Quote Notify

1507  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Covenant Theology and Addiction on: March 13, 2012, 12:43:41 PM Let me talk about religion and this covenant relationship. Ive had many friends over the years. I would say that my personal life has been more public than private. But every one who believes something it always is in the religious context. And ive been with unsaved people who have been more aware of their covenants than some christians. So there is a sense in which religion can make us all very strange. But there is a difference between religion and covenant theology. This is why God compared the covenant relationship to Israel to a marriage. Because God is not necessarily a badgering God who holds rules over His people but He is a God who is different from the gods of man. God is a God of true redemption.So when we seek God we are seeking His word in light of the redemption and His promises. There are various problems in marriage relationships. And these problems come from a lack of understanding about covenants or giving attention to covenants. My point being is that God encourages any one to marry. Because God first is a faithful God to His promises and human covenants are positive practical evidences of Gods faithfulness. So covenants really are focused not on being moral so to speak but on how God has entered in time to love His people. This whole theme is the focus of all of scripture. So we have a God who loves His people by giving them a proof in their covenants. There is a very narrow way to think about this. God is our Father first. Our Father has given His faithful leaders to be fathers. Through the history of Israel He called the faithful elect His fathers . Because redemption is in the motif of covenants. It begins with a covenant. The Fathers hearts are turned toward their children by covenant. So a marriage is an extension of Gods covenant communication in the individual sense.    Remove Reply Quote Notify

1508  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: difference between affliction and punishment? on: March 13, 2012, 11:26:32 AM When we are saved we are given a promise that cannot be thwarted. Its an appointment like a doctors appointment. But this appointment is so far in the future that it seems uncertain to us. The promise when we meet Jesus is that we will be given new robes of righteousness and He will wipe away every tear from our eyes. In between this He spreads His tent over us. In other words we are under His protection so that nothing can bring us to this second death. We cannot fall. But it does seem that we are in pain so much because our appointment is so very far away. Now we need to understand Gods covenant He has made with us because there are promises in there that pertain to our persevering until we get into that office to get our relief. What is the promise? Its first a guarantee of giving us the seal of our salvation. He has given us His Spirit who is the agent for illumination of His words of promise to us. So when we hear death and disease and despair the Spirit speaks the very words of God as if He is breathing a new spirit into us. Its like being revived. God who is our Father is the great Shepherd who will lead us to springs of living water. We have not received the total eternal life but we are receiving it through word and Spirit. What would be the practical application of this from day to day? There are two words that are used to make Gods grace real to us. Its like God placing these words in us as if He were out in front of us preparing the redemption path until we get into the office to receive our relief. Its His love and faithfulness. God appoints His love and faithfulness in our daily trials. Now listen God is very dangerous! God is like the whirl wind that cannot be seen but it moves events. God is like a whirl wind of fire on every side. How would you like to not only be confronted with a tornado but a fiery tornado? Like an army of lions breathing out fire smoke and sulfur? God is a consuming fire that goes before us. Christ vision is the seven spirits that are sent out into all the earth. These spirits are the plagues that are written in the scrolls. Christ is very dangerous. So we understand more by our knowing that God alone brought Israel out of Egypt by being in front of them with this image. Listen the people did not carry out their stuff with them. lol They did not carry out their tools for work. lol They only had one thing they were looking at. That was God protecting them with His promise to love  them by being faithful to His covenant for them. They only advanced by this appointment that God would bring them to the promise land. So along the way He displayed His love and faithfulness in the events to protect them as if He appoint these covenant promises to keep them safe. Have you ever prayed to this dangerous God to appoint His love and faithfulness to lead you? Reply Quote Notify

1509  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: obedience vs forgiveness on: March 13, 2012, 10:41:42 AM God is both loving and angry. God is angry toward the wicked every day. God is not an equal opportunity employer. God is not a democratic leader. God is not a universal candy man. But in looking at who God is we must see what He does. Because no matter what our standard of doing is in our image God cannot be limited by what we think is the standard of doing. When we teach that God is all love we limit God to acting against the reprobate. We teach that God must force his children to act a certain way since there is no standard of judgement on the wicked. We in essence place Gods children as the fundamental way to address the wickedness in the world. So this comes down to personal struggles with people. If a person says God loves so and so no matter what then it would be teaching that so and so is not in danger. At the same time it would be enforcing the idea that Gods children share in the danger of the wicked by a lack of love. Now in thinking this way we order our religious system. This system becomes very stagnate and unable to practice true redemption. It creates on the one hand people who are uncaring because they do not acknowledge the depth of sin because sin to them is the dangerous plague rather than being motivated by Gods wrath for sinners. On the other hand they focus on the appearance of evil. They are like the Priest who avoid being exposed to sin in order to not sin. Its like locking yourself up in a room with nothing but your bible and then you think your pure. lol The reason that sin is deeper than alcoholism... sex problems.. smoking is that sin is a thinking disease that miss apply s Gods love and wrath.Sin is the miss understanding of blessing and cursing.  We sin when we miss the mark of what who God is angry at and the sinner God is hiding in His refuge. God is so dangerous that we could never really out sin His being able to keep us from falling. But if we do not acknowledge Gods dangerous cursing then we in essence are preventing ourselves from being confident that God will not abandon us when we are struggling at the hour of temptation. God has told us not only that He is angry at sin but that He protects us from falling by the equal level of anger to His defense of us. We need to understand that we are not really living according to a word on a page but according to the Spirit of the word. This is very applicable to Jonah.   Reply Quote Notify

1510  Forums / Theology Forum / Covenant Theology and Addiction on: March 13, 2012, 10:18:15 AM Ive been writing about sin and addiction for awhile but now since ive lived practicing sin for quite some time and raised two children who have been exposed to free grace freedom i want to describe how the covenants have directed my life in sin. Covenants are extremely important to God. Our whole lives are given the fundamental practice of propriety in how we enjoy security in our covenants. So a covenant understanding is living in the view that we are to give God all the glory and seek to glorify Him by enjoying Him forever. So we see that life is viewed in a divided way outside of this unity of the essence of God. We can say the the fundamental power of sin is to produce separation from God. But the goal of covenant theology is seen in producing security of the christian in Gods teaching us by who His is that He has covenants for us to unify our lives under this structure so that sin will not destroy us. Its not really a world view that focuses on one response to one sin but rather it produces in us a love for covenants that supersedes our practice of sin. So that covenant theology develops a life style of security that keeps us from utterly falling into sin. This is why the christian experience is more than just the exposure to the truth in order to be something we are not. But rather it is a style of living. What produces security is more important to us than how much we have grown to over come our sin. So that hope overcomes despair in bringing us to a knowledge of sin.What i want to focus on here is how i have always ordered my thoughts as it relates to ongoing sin.           Reply Quote Notify

1511  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: March 13, 2012, 08:51:05 AM Our main focus in not our sin. Sin is confessed but that is just the opening of the day. Then we look away from our sin. Once we acknowledge that Christ has taken care of our sin the we focus on the fight. Fight the good fight to obtain the crown. We are in a battle not in ourselves but with a public enemy. Because religion in America has preached that God loves the world we have become Unitarian. We have denied there are real enemies out their trying to destroy our souls. So we get so focused on ourselves that we are not watching like a Shepherd to protect others. But the truth is that we will never get a real handle on personal sin as long as there is a deep culture of sin. Look at Lot. And some people go at it in a political way. But we are required to use the means of faith to fight an enemy that is invisible. We take up the shield of faith. The shield of faith is the word of deliverance. Its believing that Christ will deliver us in the hour of temptation. Not over sin but over the course that we are going. How do we believe? We oppose those who oppose Christ. We take up the sword of the Spirit. How by meditating on His word day and nite. When we do this we get an eternal view of reality. We wake up in the morning and we feel like its a new day. Because we have engaged ourselves in communication with our Father we feel He has created it. lol. When we go to sleep at night He counsels us with wisdom. So we are not plotting for ourselves how to undue our neighbor. got to go    Remove Reply Quote Notify

1512  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: March 13, 2012, 08:34:03 AM Thanks TB... Yes the doctrine of total depravity is something that leaves a sour taste in some peoples mouths. And yet with all the focus on overcoming sin where has it led us? We have a nation full of addictions. But its funny because most of us who are religious are more interested in denying that evil exist on the level that it actually does. I guess there is a danger of being sheltered from this reality. Then you have positive thinking as the mechanism to help find a balance in this life. And believe me i am all for positive thinking. But we are required to live in this world. We must determine to be level headed about all of this. Because if we try to just look at all the positive then we fail to have a realistic level of empathy for those people who are suffering. And we will not be involved in His redeeming purposes. Because He is not trying to make the world more moral but to deliver people from the world and Satan. The only way to deliver someone is to be in the world. So we need to focus on the goal and not us and our sin. Because we could spend a life time trying to undue what has already been done to us and in us. But there are some sins that we will be fighting for a life time. If we look at the state of the world and we find ourselves living in our own heads about how evil we are rather than trying to help someone less fortunate than us then what good does it do to be so self focused? The bible promises that we will not stray from the truth. But it does not promise that we will overcome all the evil that is in us. So there is a danger of thinking that if we do not eliminate all evil that we are useless. This is what is so odd about redemption. The more we approach overcoming evil by self effort the more we are gonna close our eyes to all the evils we have. Because we put a stake in the ground that is foolish and will undue us. But we are required to have a view of the depth of sin. The bible points out certain sins to prove that sin is real and it goes into the heart and interior of our lives. If we focus on our sin all the time then we will never see enough to make a judgement on the sin in the world. This is why we are told to focus on Christ and not ourselves and our sins. Because Christ is moving us forward on this path of deliverance from the world. Christ is oppose the evil forces in the high places. He has a world view that is holistic. How foolish would it be for us to be so self focused that we always are feeling sorrow for ourselves or we are so depressed that we actually make it impossible for us to be delivered? But in focusing on Christ we are not focusing on one thing but rather we have a healthy resistance in the event by His wisdom.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

1513  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: March 11, 2012, 03:41:37 PM Quote from: Gouda on March 06, 2012, 01:05:33 AM I love that, MBG. You're talking to a Southern girl.  We were all raised to be nice and polite always; to not think too much of ourselves; to listen to our elders; to keep quiet and avoid all controversy or unpleasantries. Imagine how freeing it is the first time that timid Southern girl finds the power to say, "Well, if we disagree on this, then I'm sure God will make it clear TO YOU at some point..."  And she moves on, following a different voice. THAT is freedom. Yes Gouda.. God has made it so that all truth is reveal truth. So any idea outside of the revealed truth is a philosophy of man. The more we understand the scriptures the more our words will be order by that understanding and the more we will agree with one another. I mean about the gospel of grace. Because Gods saving gospel is counsel. Its Gods perfect counsel. If we counsel someone with our own words then we are opposing Gods salvation. And this is what is described about the tongue of the wicked. The wicked are born with counsel that strays from the truth. Because truth is only revealed truth. And the wicked are blind to revealed truth. So we say that counsel is directing a person down a clear path. And wicked speech is directing a person down the path of destruction. But once we are saved then we are told that we hear the Shepherds voice. We cannot abandon this clear path of counsel. We may stumble or stray from it but we cannot get in the path of destruction. The apostle was describing this path as Gods perfect counsel in a doctrinal sense. He was telling the church that if there was a disagreement among the saints that eventually they would be led down this clear path and meet at the same door. The desires of the righteous cannot be thwarted but the desires of the wicked will come to nothing.  Remove Reply Quote Notify

1514  Forums / Main Forum / Re: GGD VS. 3 FREE SINS- on: March 11, 2012, 03:28:07 PM Quote Yes, as hard as it is to believe, once you have obeyed  (believed)  the Gospel, from then on you are sinless before God  (the Only One who counts). Well then, shall you and me all all the other saints abuse His Grace by doing things that are not "beneficial" (classified as "sin" under OT covenant laws ) as Paul called them?  ........... b2 i would be careful of painting this gulf between our identity and our place as sinners. First i think the apostle was saying that we do not abuse the grace of God but that the grace of God is greater than our sin. The believer is naturally made to know he is a sinner. Just look what the apostle says about himself and his sin. He says for what i want to do ... that i do not do and what i do not want to do that i do. Is he in a worse condition for confessing that he wants to sin over and over again? No because he is aware of his natural condition as a believer. In other words he is not playing games with God but he comes as he is. I know that i sin the same sin throughout my christian life. A lot of people try to grade sins. They say that there are addictions that are worse than the little sins of self righteousness. They shame themselves into submission only to find that the sin has come out in another area. They deceive themselves about the control they have over their one sin. They will focus on some principles in order to overcome that addiction. But sin is not something they do to God. Its something that is destroying their lives. A lot of people live with confidence in their own control. And if youve been watching kk and i disagree you will see that most people will order their words as close as they can to explaining their free will as an equal choice or a cooperation with God but never come to a real knowledge of sin outside of it being something that God is wrestling with them about. Sin cannot be atoned for by any other avenue than through grace. The bible says that God alone determines our honor. Our problem is that we do not believe that God alone through grace alone by faith alone will do the job. We do not seek God for confidence. We do not fellowship with God as opposed to man.We get assaulted by man and we increase our blame. But we must put our pre conceived ideas away and accept the fact that we will not be perfect until we get our new white robes. So its not a problem if God is describing us as bad sinners. If God has given us the only way to be accepted by Him through grace. The only way we can obtain grace is by our sin. So God has made one statement about who we are when we approach Him. This statement cannot be changed. We approach Him as sinners. Not making light of some sins and being more shamed at others. But we approach God with needing that level of grace according to His describing how bad one sin is to Him. Reply Quote Notify

1515	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: John 3:13-18.... Commentary.... John Calvin	on: March 11, 2012, 11:29:14 AM
And, indeed, where sin reigns, we shall find nothing but the wrath of God, which draws death along with it. It is mercy, therefore, that reconciles us to God, that he may likewise restore us to life. These words Calvin uses are the same as God loving His own in the world.mbG This mode of expression, however, may appear to be at variance with many passages of Scripture, which lay in Christ the first foundation of the love of God to us, and show that out of him we are hated by God. But we ought to remember — what I have already stated — that the secret love with which the Heavenly Father loved us in himself is higher than all other causes; but that the grace which he wishes to be made known to us, and by which we are excited to the hope of salvation, commences with the reconciliation which was procured through Christ. Calvin calls it a secret love.mbG For since he necessarily hates sin, how shall we believe that we are loved by him, until atonement has been made for those sins on account of which he is justly offended at us? Thus, the love of Christ must intervene for the purpose of reconciling God to us, before we have any experience of his fatherly kindness. But as we are first informed that God, because he loved us, gave his Son to die for us, so it is immediately added, that it is Christ alone on whom, strictly speaking, faith ought to look. A clear reference to this love in relationship and not universal.mbG He gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him may not perish. This, he says, is the proper look of faith, to be fixed on Christ, in whom it beholds the breast of God filled with love: this is a firm and enduring support, to rely on the death of Christ as the only pledge of that love. The word only-begotten is emphatic, (ἐμφατικὸν) to magnify the fervor of the love of God towards us. For as men are not easily convinced that God loves them, in order to remove all doubt, he has expressly stated that we are so very dear to God that, on our account, he did not even spare his only-begotten Son. Since, therefore, God has most abundantly testified his love towards us, whoever is not satisfied with this testimony, and still remains in doubt, offers a high insult to Christ, as if he had been an ordinary man given up at random to death. But we ought rather to consider that, in proportion to the estimation in which God holds his only-begotten Son, so much the more precious did our salvation appear to him, for the ransom of which he chose that his only-begotten Son should die. To this name Christ has a right, because he is by nature the only Son of God; and he communicates this honor to us by adoption, when we are engrafted into his body. In other words this love cannot be mixed but stands alone in the salvation of God.mbG That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life. So Calvin is saying that God saves men out of the whole world from every culture...every ethnic background and every economic class but the rest God proves their hatred for Him. (indiscriminate) There is no in between love of God in this context.mbG Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still faith is not common to all. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith. Here, too, is displayed a wonderful effect of faith; for by it we receive Christ such as he is given to us by the Father — that is, as having freed us from the condemnation of eternal death, and made us heirs of eternal life, because, by the sacrifice of his death, he has atoned for our sins, that nothing may prevent God from acknowledging us as his sons. Since, therefore, faith embraces Christ, with the efficacy of his death and the fruit of his resurrection, we need not wonder if by it we obtain likewise the life of Christ. So he is saying that universal love cheapens Gods promise to His elect.mbG Still it is not yet very evident why and how faith bestows life upon us. Is it because Christ renews us by his Spirit, that the righteousness of God may live and be vigorous in us; or is it because, having been cleansed by his blood, we are accounted righteous before God by a free pardon? It is indeed certain, that these two things are always joined together; but as the certainty of salvation is the subject now in hand, we ought chiefly to hold by this reason, that we live, because God loves us freely by not imputing to us our sins. For this reason sacrifice is expressly mentioned, by which, together with sins, the curse and death are destroyed. I have already explained the object of these two clauses, which is, to inform us that in Christ we regain the possession of life, of which we are destitute in ourselves; for in this wretched condition of mankind, redemption, in the order of time, goes before salvation. So free pardon is seen in the back drop of God saving some men and proving the hate of others. So that it will be the determinate will of God that proves this free access.mbG
1516	Forums / Main Forum / Re: GGD VS. 3 FREE SINS- on: March 11, 2012, 11:01:25 AM If God is only successful by His working to make us obedient then in some ways He overlooks our disobedience and its full consequences  to delay judgement so that we will come to the end of ourselves. Because we know the bible is not for God but for man. And God says that He will judge sinners not just future but every misstep of the law demands an ongoing curse to sinners. And if God truly rewards the righteous then He would need to overlook our weakness in the mixture of our corruption with the obedience in order to say that the law is not for Him but for us. lol So in this equation God is working on a sliding scale with the individual sinner. If God is allow for a defect then man in some ways can be prejudice in one person being more defective than another based upon the persons view of the worse things and the acceptable things. This system does not encourage a clear choice from a real cause but it leaves us to reason in a system where evil is only evil in percentages. And good is only as good in the scale of the weight of those evil percentages. But we see that God declares all men guilty so that He might justify some. This is why we do not consider God giving us this law for us as if we were in between doing rite and doing wrong. But God in giving us His law defines freedom as God ordaining whatsoever comes to pass including our sin. So when He says choose you this day whom you will serve He really is saying give up your idols of pragmatism. First acknowledge that I am totally sovereign over all things. Dont waver in between good and evil but find the source of all good. He says to His church why do you offer me sacrifices and do not offer me the glory and praise i deserve with a reverence for Me? Dont you know that I own the cattle on a thousand hills? What is it that you bring me? I own everything!Your sacrifices are a stench to my nostrils. Go back and reform you view of who God is! There really is no respect for Gods word unless it comes from a reverence that when God speaks it is done. Man likes to make things difficult but God explains things in detail so that He narrows it down to stupid simplicity. lol This is why the apostle says i do not come to you with smooth words but i come to you with the power of the gospel. I come to bring man before God as he is. And so we do not even understand who we are until we acknowledge God to be God.       Reply Quote Notify	1517  Forums / Main Forum / Re: GGD VS. 3 FREE SINS- on: March 09, 2012, 03:45:42 PM Ive always thought there was a choice between grace and a threat. Its parallel to blessing and cursing. So ive always approached this communication in the spirit of the words and not necessarily the words themselves. Because i believe that free grace is offense to the natural man. I do not believe that sin is necessarily the only threat but its self confidence opposing grace that is the spirit of the threat. So in cursing the wicked there is a spirit of grace that is developed because we are facing all the threats that we receive in us from opposing free grace. It has been kind of like a mysterious battle. For a threat comes a curse. Because men who are graceless are their own gods. Men who in some ways to not accept free grace are also threatening. I believe that there is a place of protection in a clear separation from the world and the false religious speech in that society. Because evil in the world is always buttressed by religious fervor. Man cannot avoid being religious in opposing grace. There is a real self protection. We are precious souls to God. Each one of us faces a religious zeal that wants to force us to turn away from the positive voices of salvation. So we must fight the battle in the communication that comes into our ears. You will find that if you develop this real place of self knowledge through being loved by God that it comes through both positive speaking and negative.  This is why cursing has always led me to a conversion of grace. Or its the spirit of grace. Because we do not feel a personal interaction with these loving communications from God unless we denounce the communications of men. So we are required to really listen as if there were spirits in the air knowing that how we feel about a situation is very important.  Reply Quote Notify 1518  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: difference between affliction and punishment? on: March 09, 2012, 02:43:26 PM After so many meditations on the wisdom books over the yrs i never have been molded to pray for God to bring a disaster for myself. Ive never wanted to be in a relationship where the fear of eternal punishment motivated me to more holiness. I do not understand how someone can be so angry at themselves to not think they deserve to seek deliverance in a positive way. Nor have i ever thought that God wanted me to acknowledge that i was free to sin but failed and that i was taking full responsibility. lol Rather ive been led along by His word of deliverance. So its hard for me to be put in a situation where there is violence done to self worth through this idea of cheap grace. Grace is the end of our salvation. How can grace be cheap if we are seeking more grace until we enter heaven? Obviously taking Titus out of context you would think that in other parts of the scripture were grace is mention there would be a warning about cheap grace. I only find one faith, one grace, one baptism , one Lord. The truth is the bible never promises us a time where we are good enough to make grace valuable. Grace is valuable whether its given to us or not. What makes grace cheap is not our sin but our unbelief. If we obtain grace its because we sin and its free. The value of the grace is that it does not cost anything to take care of our sin. Oh yes it cost Christ His life both living and dieing. But there is nothing that we can do to make it more available to us than to sin. Were sin abounds grace does more abound. If free grace were only available for our salvation and not the same grace in our sanctification then salvation is dependent upon us. Because there is either grace or works. Grace and works do not mix. Grace is free.. work is valuable on the basis of performance. One does not mix to make the other more richer or valuable. Where do we get this idea that grace provides the foundation for good works? Where did we start to divide sanctification and justification? As if grace were a substance that we stand on. Rather grace describes the fore ordaining of our works. There is never a time where we can look to ourselves and say i did a work pleasing to God by myself. There is never a time where the bible rewards people for being self confident in their sanctification and describing justification as Christ enablement to get us started. lol Christ said that a Pharisee would make you twice the sons on hell. Now this is interesting. He did not say the Pharisees would tempt you by what they said so that you would have a choice to be worse off. But He said they would create in you a place of destruction by their teaching. Christ was not talking about sitting under works teaching and being neutral about it. But He was saying that the teaching itself would defile you. It would create all kinds of psychological problems. It would literally drive you from Christ and any hope of finding deliverance in His word. This is why i am so very dogmatic about grace because it really is like war with some people. Reply Quote Notify 1519  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Sin vs mistake on: March 09, 2012, 01:07:59 PM Sin is missing the mark. Missing the mark or the standard required to be righteous. Adam chose pride because he believed Satan offered him a self knowledge that God had hid from him. So Adam chose to think under the domination of sin. I believe this is what it means for Adam to know good and evil. Sin is rebellion against Gods authority. God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam defied God and ate. Sin is to go astray or its to be crooked. Sin is being deformed in some way. I do not mean physically but its like a personality of addiction rather than the addiction itself. Basically its calling good >evil and evil >good. Its doing what is rite in your own eyes. Sin is acting as if God does not exist. Its practical atheism. When we sin we ignore Gods clear requirements and when we ignore them we act as if Gods word has no value. We cast His words aside and we set up our own standard in its place. In doing this we become our own god. Sin brings a curse. Because God demands absolute obedience to all of His law. One small misstep and we are obligated to be judged under the weight of the whole law. Every time we break the law we receive the curses of the law. When Christ came He had to do the will of God perfectly. He could not stray in one small things. He had to obey His Fathers will perfectly ...even going to the cross to die for our sins. He had to set rite the evils of sin on the human race. Instead of bringing disease He had to heal disease. Christ came to make all things fall in line in community. Christ had to become a curse for us so that we might not receive the curses of the law. He was hung on a tree. Cursed is any one who hangs on a tree. Christ received the punishment of a criminal who was punished justly in order that we might not be dealt with as an eye for an eye. Sin is like a disease. Every man is born in sin. Man sins because he is a sinner. Sin makes man unable to stand in a position as being accepted by God. Sin has alienated man from God. God as Father cannot look on sin with pleasure. Every sin must receive the just consequences upon the sinner. God must punish sinners with the curses of the law. He is obligated to act justly and without partiality. Every man born in sin must receive the just consequences of that sin. Because man is a sinner he is unable to be made rite in himself. The consequences of his sin demands that he is set in his own way. Man has become his own god. He has set himself on his own course. Everything that he thinks about.. everything that he plans.. everything that he does in community is for the purpose of defying and His word. Man under sin is without hope. Man under sin is dead even tho he lives. He is lost and under the curses of the law. He is unable to help himself. God must come to man. God must initiate the first knowledge of salvation. God must show man his own state of death. So God extends to man an unmerited favor. God must save man and deliver him from the course of death he is taking. God must give a man new life and place in him a new mind and will. God must destroy the old will and put man on a course of eternal life. So we say that salvation is being delivered from the consequences of our sins. We are no longer under the curses of the law. But now we are on a path of blessing. But we still are sinners. We still approach God as sinners. The difference is that we know that all of salvation is a gift because we are sinners by nature. We are not playing psychological games with God but we accept what He has said about us and how He defines the problem. We no longer are secure in our own goodness. I like to describe this as being brought into the house. We are children of our Father. The relationship we have is based upon His love for us. Our salvation is given to us by grace because of His great love for us. So i do not think sin is just displeasing to Him but it also blinds us from how we understand this relationship. This is what i call being too weak to know the depth and height of His love for us. So this is like being dumb and not willfully rebellious. Because when God places His love on someone they cannot be drawn to love something in its place. The problem is one on understanding and believing.         Reply Quote Notify 1520  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: John 3:13-18.... Commentary.... John Calvin on: March 09, 2012, 08:52:29 AM 16. For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish. And this order ought to be carefully observed; for such is the wicked ambition which belongs to our nature, that when the question relates to the origin of our salvation, we quickly form diabolical imaginations about our own merits. Accordingly, we imagine that God is reconciled to us, because he has reckoned us worthy that he should look upon us. But Scripture everywhere extols his pure and unmingled mercy, which sets aside all merits. And the words of Christ mean nothing else, when he declares the cause to be in the love of God. For if we wish to ascend higher, the Spirit shuts the door by the mouth of Paul, when he informs us that this love was founded on the purpose of his will, (Ephesians 1:5.) And, indeed, it is very evident that Christ spoke in this manner, in order to draw away men from the contemplation of themselves to look at the mercy of God alone. Nor does he say that God was moved to deliver us, because he perceived in us something that was worthy of so excellent a blessing, but ascribes the glory of our deliverance entirely to his love. And this is still more clear from what follows; for he adds, that God gave his Son to men, that they may not perish. Hence it follows that, until Christ bestow his aid in rescuing the lost, all are destined to eternal destruction. This is also demonstrated by Paul from a consideration of the time;for he loved us while we were still enemies by sin, (Romans 5:8, 10.) Remove Reply Quote Notify 1521  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Real Gospel on: March 09, 2012, 08:39:01 AM Here Kk is describing Christ righteousness as a clear transaction of good in this life. He is not describing the biblical doctrine of Justification by faith. Christ did not actually transfer His righteousness to us as us being intrinsically righteous. Or that we receive more goodness as we "cooperate with Him". What Kk is describing here is the old infused pelagian concept of righteousness. When we submit we get more of Christ righteousness. But the biblical teaching of righteousness is that we are declared righteous in a legal sense. We are not intrinsically righteous as Christ. But we are legally able to stand without blame because Christ obtain true righteousness by meeting the requirements of the law. What Kk is describing is a mystical righteousness and not a personal relationship to one who is truly righteous.This is exactly how we understand who we are because of the image of who we are . We begin to see reality when we understand image as to who we are in this person to person comparison. Rather than giving righteousness a mystical force or making it like some kind of substance that we get more of or less of. We must compare our standard of law keeping with Christ standard of law keeping. We understand ourselves by looking at the real man. We get a unbiased view of ourselves as we avoid comparing ourselves with ourselves or with others. But we begin to understand relationships with others as we look on Christ. There is no realistic understanding of image unless we look on Christ as the image of God.       Reply Quote Notify 1522  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: March 09, 2012, 08:25:19 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 09, 2012, 01:36:29 AM Quote from: mybigGod on March 07, 2012, 07:52:13 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 07, 2012, 01:47:18 PM All the theological discussion in the world doesn't actually save anyone.  But having the unending Life of Christ in us does.  The Scriptures in the first post above carry the essence of the mystery revealed, of how God can make a thoroughly sinful person into His righteous child, fully qualified for the Kingdom of Heaven, here on earth. So you doctrine stated here is that Christ cannot be described? lol No, it is not that Christ cannot be described, but rather that theology doesn't save anyone at all.  Only the unending Life of Christ saves us, since He alone is Savior.  The Cross makes reconciliation with God available but doesn't save us either.  Only Him living in us makes us kids of God, not our theology. Romans 5:10 "For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His Life." John 14:19-20 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.  At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you."     So youve stated that the doctrine of reconciliation is important in salvation. Because Christ brings His enemies into His family through His death and resurrection.  But what Christ did is not doctrinal... and black is white and 2+2 is 5... lol Reply Quote Notify 1523  Forums / Main Forum / Re: the law and love on: March 08, 2012, 03:41:34 PM Let me say that we have a puritanical idea of christian love. There are religious people who will not be identified with people who frequent bars... go to places where they would be afraid of their reputation. But as i read my bible one of the things talked about was how to appear before men as acceptable in the bath houses. lol If a believer cannot enjoy people who drink too much and party too much then they really are not altogether free. The gospel is not about appearing to be religious but its first about overlooking the evil for the relationship. Seriously.. do you think i care what people think of me if i am enjoying someones company who other religious people would look from the outside and say something? You do not know me. Jesus was labeled as a winebibber and drunkard because he was always in the company of these people. He enjoyed their company because they new they needed something to make them better. And this is what we are telling beggars where the bread is. Reply Quote Notify 1524  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: difference between affliction and punishment? on: March 08, 2012, 03:17:25 PM The law for us is a rule that God provides as His demonstration that He loves us. I do not think you can take the third use of the law out of this context and not bring it into the curse of the law. Now a lot of people miss quote me and say i am teaching that we do nothing. My friend if you look at my life and all the different areas  beyond my own private family matters i am proving that i am rite by doing it in a narrow manner that is defined as the only way to do it in His strength. My point being every time we go outside of the way we are taught to think as i have defined in my opening statement we waste valuable time being strengthened for our task. And i am talking about the renewal of our strength through healing etc in this supernatural way. A lot of times i get really feeling like its the end of my fuse. People actually think the bible teaches a way to slow other people down by focusing on minor things. But the christian faith is about solutions. I mean God offers us a solution to our problem of not being able to meet the standards of the law. And i do not mean through this process theology where we one day will be disciplined enough to fall in line. lol  Im talking about a God who supernaturally gives us gifts....wisdom ..endows us with strength...heals us of our wounds.. and provides complete redemption if some people will get out of the way. lol.I always say if your not a part of the solution then get out of the way. Im talking about an attitude as well. Take you cursed trust in the law and got "help" someone else. Christian ministry is being involved in other peoples lives. If you do not like that then do something else. Dont destroy other people because you want to be a religious professional. But we must always reach out and be a solution. Ive lived this .   Reply Quote Notify 1525  Forums / Main Forum / Re: the law and love on: March 08, 2012, 02:48:48 PM When ever we talk about love its in the context of doing. Any one who thinks that love is offered as a middle ground acceptance between what we do and what God does is not understanding biblical love. But love is a demonstration of the value we place on the object of that love. So how can we know love if we are always failing to value that person or object that meets the standard of valuable love? The truth is that we do not have a well of love enough to be able to love with our whole heart , mind, soul and strength. And if we fail at some point in meeting this standard of loving with all we have then we begin to doubt that we are normal in our relationships. This circular reasoning is the biggest reason that we doubt ourselves and do not feel valuable in ourselves. This is why God must love us first. We have a choice. Either God demonstrates His love for us that gives us value or we can go though life with one foot in law and the other in love and think that we are able to love enough to meet the standards of the law. lol Why is it so important that we understand how God has demonstrated His love for us? Because Gods love creates the personal value of this self acceptance. In other words if we focus on how God has loved us then it will build in us love for other people. So its kind of like draining water out of the sink and then turning on the facet and filling it back up again. We should know the source of getting loved so that it will be so attractive to us that we always return for more. There is no one who wants to be hated in order to know they are loved. lol. Love=law..love =discipline  love =failure... God is love so whatever God is in relationship to us it is love. Love is God demonstrating to us because He created all things. If there is any other cause of the creation then we really cannot be loved by a will that is immutable. If i said to you that love is a kind of mushy feeling and its demonstrated by setting someone free i would be leaving you with no hope of genuine love. Because genuine love is very firm and consistent. God demonstrates His love for us by creating all things. Because God is love and He designed the beauty of this earth by His will then all the things that we enjoy are given to us by a gracious God. In other words we are not talking about a God of focus groups.. a God of promises.. a God of rules.. but we are talking about a God who actually provides good things for us to enjoy by His grace alone. We must understand that God in order to prove His love to us has gone out and done all the work for us so that He can in His love provide the value of the acceptance as that by which we accept everything that comes to us in this life. God is not like man. Man makes promises he cannot keep. Man offers cheer, a positive note , encouragement etc. But God changes things and provides real benefits to us. If God only spoke from heaven as the basis of our value of being loved then He could not teach that He is faithful, long-suffering.. good...patient...gracious...compassionate.. but God is the only one who loves as He provides life in giving us all things to enjoy. When we get those things we are encouraged in our faith. This is God filling up our tank with His promise to love us.   Reply Quote Notify 1526  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: March 07, 2012, 07:52:13 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 07, 2012, 01:47:18 PM All the theological discussion in the world doesn't actually save anyone.  But having the unending Life of Christ in us does.  The Scriptures in the first post above carry the essence of the mystery revealed, of how God can make a thoroughly sinful person into His righteous child, fully qualified for the Kingdom of Heaven, here on earth. So you doctrine stated here is that Christ cannot be described? lol Reply Quote Notify 1527  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: difference between affliction and punishment? on: March 07, 2012, 06:34:43 PM Believers may act foolish but because we are forgiven there is no reason to hold it against us. The only people who keep this island of blame are those who trust in the law. Or they trust in a principle. The apostle says that all who trust in the law are under a curse. There are two things that we have a hard time overcoming as we grow in our christian life. One is really believing that God is absolutely sovereign and resting in that. The other is having this relationship with the law that is inconsistent with the gospel. The hard facts are that people play both sides of law- gospel. Let me say that i believe that people do not really cut the strings to the law because they do not believe that the law curses lawbreakers. It has taken me many years of cursing law breakers to know that the law is dangerous.So i do not approach the matter of christian love as a matter of judgement through restraint. Ive meditated on this particular Psalm for so long about this that its natural for me to constrain myself from trusting in these strings.  I know that in me  the law is a fire that can potentially destroy me. And if i cannot distinguish in myself what powers draw me into bondage then all the law does is ruin my attitude. This is why im always enjoying the state of overflow. Unless i encounter this spirit in others then it takes me back. We should be as harmless and soft as we possibly can. I mean in what we fall back on. The reason that people play with the fire is they do not really believe the bible warns them about trusting in the law. This is why we are warned not to call our brothers- fools. Or" thou fool" as your own interpretation of the sermon on the mount teaches you. lol Of which of course I see you like to pick and choose which ones are important. lol The bible forbids us to look at our fellow believers as being in a state of wrath and anger of God. Rather we are told to praise God for our brothers. There is never a time in the wisdom books where we treat our brothers as pagans. When we look at those who have been forgiven by God as being at odds with God we are actually placing them under the law to be cursed by the law. Ive never intentionally cursed a brother. But if you read my other post about this i believe that cursing is valid to protect the church against the wolves that could potentially destroy its unity. So it sets the christian community straight. In this particular context you haven't proved to me that God actually told the prophet that he was wrong for being angry. Rather as i have stated this conversion is more of two people reasoning with one another. Ive been very busy so i do need to continue my argument about the subject of this topic. Reply Quote Notify 1528  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: John 3:13-18.... Commentary.... John Calvin on: March 07, 2012, 06:06:44 PM 14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent. He explains more clearly why he said that it is he alone to whom heaven is opened; namely, that he brings to heaven all who are only willing to follow him as their guide; for he testifies that he will be openly and publicly manifested to all, that he may diffuse his power over men of every class. 62 To be lifted up means to be placed in a lofty and elevated situation, so as to be exhibited to the view of all. This was done by the preaching of the Gospel; for the explanation of it which some give, as referring to the cross, neither agrees with the context nor is applicable to the present subject. The simple meaning of the words therefore is, that, by the preaching of the Gospel, Christ was to be raised on high, like a standard to which the eyes of all would be directed, as Isaiah had foretold, (Isaiah 2:2.) As a type of this lifting up, he refers to the brazen serpent, which was erected by Moses, the sight of which was a salutary remedy to those who had been wounded by the deadly bite of serpents. The history of that transaction is well known, and is detailed in Numbers 21:9. Christ introduces it in this passage, in order to show that he must be placed before the eyes of all by the doctrine of the Gospel, that all who look at him by faith may obtain salvation. Hence it ought to be inferred that Christ is clearly exhibited to us in the Gospel, in order that no man may complain of obscurity; and that this manifestation is common to all, and that faith has its own look, by which it perceives him as present; as Paul tells us that a lively portrait of Christ with his cross is exhibited, when he is truly preached, (Galatians 3:1.) The metaphor is not inappropriate or far-fetched. As it was only the outward appearance of a serpent, but contained nothing within that was pestilential or venomous, so Christ clothed himself with the form of sinful flesh, which yet was pure and free from all sin, that he might cure in us the deadly wound of sin. It was not in vain that, when the Jews were wounded by serpents, the Lord formerly prepared this kind of antidote; and it tended to confirm the discourse which Christ delivered. For when he saw that he was despised as a mean and unknown person, he could produce nothing more appropriate than the lifting up of the serpent, to tell them, that they ought not to think it strange, if, contrary to the expectation of men, he were lifted up on high from the very lowest condition, because this had already been shadowed out under the Law by the type of the serpent. A question now arises: Does Christ compare himself to the serpent, because there is some resemblance; or, does he pronounce it to have been a sacrament, as the Manna was? For though the Manna was bodily food, intended for present use, yet Paul testifies that it was a spiritual mystery, (1 Corinthians 10:3.) I am led to think that this was also the case with the brazen serpent, both by this passage, and the fact of its being preserved for the future, until the superstition of the people had converted it into an idol, (2 Kings 18:4.) If any one form a different opinion, I do not debate the point with him. Remove Reply Quote Notify 1529  Forums / Theology Forum / John 3:13-18.... Commentary.... John Calvin on: March 07, 2012, 09:32:33 AM 13. No one hath ascended to heaven. He again exhorts Nicodemus not to trust to himself and his own sagacity, because no mortal man can, by his own unaided powers, enter into heaven, but only he who goes thither under the guidance of the Son of God. For to ascend to heaven means here, “to have a pure knowledge of the mysteries of God, and the light of spiritual understanding.” For Christ gives here the same instruction which is given by Paul, when he declares that the sensual man does not comprehend the things which are of God, (1 Corinthians 2:14;) and, therefore, he excludes from divine things all the acuteness of the human understanding, for it is far below God. But we must attend to the words, that Christ alone, who is heavenly, ascends to heaven, but that the entrance is closed against all others. For, in the former clause, he humbles us, when he excludes the whole world from heaven. Paul enjoins those who are desirous to be wise with God to be fools with themselves, (1 Corinthians 3:18.) There is nothing which we do with greater reluctance. For this purpose we ought to remember, that all our senses fail and give way when we come to God; but, after having shut us out from heaven, Christ quickly proposes a remedy, when he adds, that what was denied to all others is granted to the Son of God. And this too is the reason why he calls himself the Son of man, that we may not doubt that we have an entrance into heaven in common with him who clothed himself with our flesh, that he might make us partakers of all blessings. Since, therefore, he is the Father’s only Counselor, (Isaiah 9:6,) he admits us into those secrets which otherwise would have remained in concealment. Who is in heaven. It may be thought absurd to say that he is in heaven, while he still dwells on the earth. If it be replied, that this is true in regard to his Divine nature, the mode of expression means something else, namely, that while he was man, he was in heaven. It might be said that no mention is here made of any place, but that Christ is only distinguished from others, in regard to his condition, because he is the heir of the kingdom of God, from which the whole human race is banished; but, as it very frequently happens, on account of the unity of the Person of Christ, that what properly belongs to one nature is applied to another, we ought not to seek any other solution. Christ, therefore, who is in heaven, hath clothed himself with our flesh, that, by stretching out his brotherly hand to us, he may raise us to heaven along with him. Reply Quote Notify 1530  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: OF THE WORK OF THE HOLY GHOST IN OUR SALVATION... Thomas Goodwin on: March 06, 2012, 07:33:54 AM Eighthly; As thus in respect of evidencing our graces to us, and his joining with God the Father and Christ in their testimonies also to us, the Spirit doth the work so as to lead us into all truths of the word and secrets of God whatever, which in this life are revealed; it is he whom God sends to discover and convince us of them all: 1 Cor. ii. 10, 'He searcheth all the deep things of God.' He is the keeper of all those archives of eternity, and they are all committed to his custody, and he lets us into the view of them, and reveals what is revealed of them unto us ' as he will.' There is not a thing that God hath prepared for us that love him, ver. 9 (which is spoken of the hidden things of the gospel, ver. 7), but he is the manifester of it to one or other of the saints ; it is he leads into all truth: 2 Tim. i. 18 and 14, ' Hold fast the form of sound words, which is in Christ Jesus.' But, alas! might they say of ourselves, we are apt to let them slip and leak out (as Heb. ii. 1), and to be ' carried away with every wind of doctrine,' Eph. iv. (this we are prone to be), therefore he adds, ver. 14, 'That good thing' (so he calls the truth of the doctrine of wholesome words, for bonum et varum convertuntur), 'keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.' Who also brings them home to our remembrance when we have forgotten them, John xiv. 26. And as these matters, in point of faith, and assurance, and joy, and all communion with God the Father and the Son, are transacted by this Spirit, together with the revelation of all truths, so, Ninthly; If we view all and the whole of the work and works of sanctifition that are wrought in us, or proceed from us, it will appear that it is he that works them all in us and for us. This is the third part of the application of salvation to us; according to that distribution which Christ makes, John xvi. 8, 11, and which he attributes to the Spirit, 'when he is come, he shall convince the world of judgment,' that is, of true holiness, sanctification, and reformation of heart and life; as in the Old Testament frequently, and in the New, that word judgment is used, as Mat. xii. 20. That Christ shall 'bring forth judgment to victory,' citing ver. 18 out of the Old, viz., out of Isa. xlii. 1, 'He shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.' And in respect of his working herein, he hath this denomination made' appropriate to him, viz., 'a Spirit of judgment,' purging away the filth of sin in his people, Isa. iv. 4. And holiness is called ' the sanctification of the Spirit,' 1 Peter i. 2, and 2 Thess.'ii. 18. And for this cause he bears the name of the Holy Spirit, as the eminent efficient of holiness in us. And accordingly as men have grown up into, and increased more and more in, holiness, they have been said to be filled with the Holy Ghost, as, Luke i. 41, it is said of Elizabeth the mother, and her child the Baptist; and his eminent holiness is expressed by this, 'He shall be filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother's womb,' Luke i. 15. And the same strain of speech goes on in the New Testament: Acts vi. 8, ' Choose men full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom.' Of Barnabas it was said, 'A good man, and full of the Holy Ghost,' Acts xi. 28; and the super-excelling fulness and eminency of Christ's graces is set out by this measure, that he had 'the Spirit above measure ;' for this Spirit's indwelling in him was the fountain and standard of his infinitely transcending holiness. Let us go over the several particulars of that work.