I
just find it hilarious that individuals attempt to dismiss an ideology
that is not heresy, and some of them do so by comitting heresy.
Is Calvinism absolutely accurate? No. It is man made. Is Calvinism
absolutely ignorant? No. It is God honoring. The problem is not the
ideology itself, but the practice of it.
Calvinism without parameters becomes legalism; Armenianism without parameters becomes liberalism.
Let
me give you a little bit of your ot lol. God is called the Sovereign
Lord. Or this is Jehovah who is immutable. Or this is what Christ has
been position as the eternal Son of God. Or this is in essence the Most
High. And what does this Sovereign Lord accomplish? He offers absolute
protection from eternal death and protection from the death blow on this
earth. And in this sense all of our wounds both spiritual and physical
are redeemed in a healing way. Even tho we have these second causes yet
included in these second causes is the method that our Most High God has
commanded us to pray. Included in these prayers are for physical
healing. We spread our prayers before Him morning by morning and wait in
expectation. Not only does He work through these prayers of faith but
He works in our bodies to will and do.
Within this motif of
protection we have the desire for a long life. All of life is gifted to
us by God. In other words we breath by the breath of God. Not only does
His word speak life into us but we exist by His word. We enjoy the
benefits of health as we learn the art of praising Him or being happy in
Him. When God becomes all glorious to us there will be such a
desperation to experience dogmatic salvation as there is to long for Him
as if He was more than any of the riches of this earth. We are healed
by His stripes.
This is what God does as He teaches us. He not
only gives us His law but He works in us to will it into obedience. But
we do not obey in an intuitive way but by becoming a transparent sinner
in His presence. In other words the revelation of God is not just the
standard that we do not obey but its the obtaining the promises from our
understanding of His standard. lol. In other words instead of the law
giving us a sense of separation from God it actually draws us to feel
our sin and saves us from thinking that God is not in control. lol.
This
is what we call God seeing us. Or God seeing us as if He determines our
end from the beginning. Obviously any one who knows his ot knows that
God does not condescend to us in kind of clock builder way but He does
this through His divine knowledge and power. God works in us by bringing
the teaching of His absolute rite to rule as the motif for our success.
All of our acceptance is a by product of this motif.Not only is it a by
product but its the success itself. He works as the proof that His name
is to be praised.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Can Jesus still be distressed?
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on: October 27, 2011, 09:34:37 AM
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So "mybigGod". I can't tell if you're agreeing, disagreeing or think we're all missing it. . .  As
long as we emphasize the rite things. People think that Jesus is an
expert judge who watches when we are going to slip up and then repays us
in order to teach us a lesson. They think that Jesus anger has not been
totally satisfied at the cross. But this is not a judge and jury
christian life but its enjoying the benefits of being in the family of
God. So these terms that we think about have relational connections to
Christ. This means that Christ as high priest deals with us as His sons
and brothers. So in talking about how He communicates His love towards
us we need to think of Him in this two dimensional sense and not a moral
example and guide. Christ as our high priest is our heavenly
shepherd. He is moved with compassion and acts on our behalf. He
understands our distresses and encourages us to pour out our complaint
to Him. Can Christ feel distress in looking at what is going on with His
elect and come to their rescue? Of course He does this. Its terribly
important to distinguish how Christ responds with compassion as
distinguished between how men respond. We assume that if heaven
is silent then we are not connected to Christ as if He was feeling our
distresses. We ask to be relieved of our distresses and the responses
are very slow. I often wonder why its not a speedy response. I think its
because Christ has already given us His presence in the Holy Spirit.
And some of us trust in the Holy Spirit as if He was an inner counselor
who makes us feel good. We do not see that the Holy Spirit is a person
who desires to interact with us by communication. I really think that
God wants us to grow up into adulthood and not just automatically enjoy
being comforted when we are distressed. There is only one true teacher
and that is experience. If we were just automatons then God would be a
judge who reacts to our sins and forces our hand by pressure. But God
has given us His nature and He has sanctified us as if we were already
present as acceptable in heaven. He has gifted us as individuals with
all that we need to think for ourselves as we live for Him. The Spirit
has made us free. The Spirit has freed us from ourselves. When we are
distressed or He is distressed in us we learn through this relationship
the experience that He is good in light of the increased personal
knowledge that is different from everyone's application to their
distresses.
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2013
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Loving Lawbreaker
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on: October 26, 2011, 10:38:32 PM
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Man
was created mortal because he was subject to change. God is immortal
because God is a spirit and does not have a body .. that is in parts...
or there is not separation as if time has a cause from one part
beginning and another part ending. God does not eternally exist in one
space. lol.
But even Christ in eternity is mortal. Christ in His
humanity is subject to change in eternity. Christ did not give up His
mortality upon entering heaven as King. But He is the Lamb of God on His
throne. This is why Christ as our representative must punish sinners
for all eternity. As Christ is growing in knowledge for all eternity as a
man so He must deal with the consequences of the punishment of evil
doers as sinners for all eternity. It may be an increasing punishment as
it is Christ increasing in knowledge.
"...He who is the
blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who
alone has immortality," 1 Timothy 6:15-16 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." Hebrews 13:8 K_k:
Christ is the One Who gives us immortality at the Resurrection of
Believers. And He is the Truth, not the learner of truths. He is also
the only Life which is unending, and only those who receive the Savior
will have unending Life in Him. The final punishment for sin is the
sedond-death penalty He paid for us if we will only accept it/Him.
I
apologize... just been going through some physical problems... i
changed my post by changing the words from mortal to mutable.
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2014
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: OF THE WORK OF THE HOLY GHOST IN OUR SALVATION... Thomas Goodwin
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on: October 26, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
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And this his coming was as clearly prophesied
of, and solemn promise made thereof, under the Old Testament, as there
was of Christ's coming in the flesh. Which did so much heighten and
raise up the expectations of all believers then about him; as that upon
which, and whereby, so great a change should be made in the church and
world in the last days. This the apostle Peter commemorates and applies
upon the Spirit's visible coming upon himself and the rest of his
fellows: Acts ii. 16-18, 'This is that which was spoken by the prophet
Joel; It shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out
my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall
dream dreams: and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out
in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy;' and so on. Yea,
this coming of the Spirit I may farther call the great promise of the
New Testament. For as Christ's coming was the great promise of the Old
Testament, so the sending of the Spirit is entitled the 'promise of the
Father' in the New: Luke xxiv. 49, 'And behold I send the promise of my
Father upon you.' And he is so styled, not only in that he had been
promised in the Old Testament by the prophets (as in that of Joel ii.
28, 29, now cited), and in multitude of other prophecies of old; but
because that Christ himself did now de novo (as it were) promulge it as
his promise, and the Father's; and that upon this authority, that this
Spirit proceeded from him, as well as from the Father, and that he was
first to receive him from* us, and then shed him forth on us, Acts
* Qu. 'for'?—Ed.
ii.
88, that so it might be made good, that ' all the promises are yea and
amen in him;' seeing this promise of the Spirit is given upon Christ's
account, as he is the Son (according to that, ' God hath sent forth the
Spirit of his Son into your hearts,' Gal. iii. 18, 14 compared), and
also because now under the New Testament this promise was to be
fulfilled in such a manner and measure as was never under the Old; and
so it becomes a promise proper to the New, that next great promise,
which was to succeed that of Christ himself, the promise of promises;
the sole great promise now left to be given. God the Father had but two
grand gifts to bestow; and when once they should be given out of him, he
had left them nothing that was great (comparatively) to give, for they
contained all good in them; and these two gifts were his Son, who was
his promise in the Old Testament, and his Spirit, the promise of the
New. And the Father doth honour himself to us by this title, that he is
the promiser and giver of the Spirit; and Christ himself, now when he is
come, takes the honour too of that, to make the sending of the Spirit
his promise also, in saying, ' Behold I send him:' Luke xxiv. 49, and
John xiv. 26, 'Whom my Father will send in my name.' And it is evident
that our Saviour, in calling him ' the promise of the Father,' which was
spoken by him after his resurrection, Luke xxiv. 49, doth refer to his
own words and sermons uttered afore his resurrection, in 14th, 15th, and
16th chapters of John, rather than to the prophets primarily in his
intention: Acts i. 4, ' Wait for the promise of the Father, which ye
have heard of me.'
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2015
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Grace - don't think I get it
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on: October 26, 2011, 09:58:52 PM
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From
what I understand, one cannot live eternally unless one has been born
of an eternal spirit. Without an eternal spirit, your soul will die -
cease to exist. Scripture is very clear that man is mortal; by coming
to know God, we can be adopted by Him, be enveloped in His Spirit, and
live forever with Him; however, if we serve Satan, we can be born of his
spirit and dwell forever with him. You have been given the gift of
life - you have a choice - choose to know God, or not. God will not
punish you if you do not wish to know and love Him; God would not be a
loving person if He threatened you with hell, nor would that be a real
"choice"; death is not a punishment - it's just a fair consequence.
"The soul that sins, he shall die" - Scripture does not say: "The soul
that sins, he shall forever be tortured. "
Carrie we are
all born in sin. This means that we cannot do one good thing. I do not
mean that everyone does evil even if its an act of kindness to another
person. But the bible does not really stop at the outward good works
that everyone does but it goes deeper into the heart of man and the
thoughts of man. It says that man is born with an independent spirit
from God. Man alienates himself from God. How does man alienate himself
from God? First man does not have God in all his thoughts. Do this
exercise. Tomorrow try to not think an independent thought without
comparing it to something that God has said in His word. Try to think
about what you are thinking about. This is very hard even for a person
who has accepted Christ death and resurrection as a substitute for his
personal sin. The truth is our minds are always wandering from God.
We always focus on the physical and earthly things. Those goals that we
want to improve our lives. But we seldom live with a God consciousness.
The point is that if we do not try to set our thoughts on things above
then they will be set on the things of this world without us seeing how
God is ignored. This is because God does not actually live in us as God
who is all knowing... all glorious..all in all and the most worthy
object of our affections and worship. God is a spirit and those who
worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Man is born to
avoid God. Mans desires is to not have God in all his thoughts. Because
man does not know God then he does not fear God. If man really believes
he is independent from God then he will not respect God for who God is.
If man does not think thoughts after God then man does not consider God
worth the time to get to know. This being born in sin is what brings all
the pain and misery into the world. Because when man is alienated from
God man does not know what true love is.
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2016
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom of the Will.... J. Edwards
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on: October 26, 2011, 09:43:58 PM
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edwards/mbG:
"that the Will always is as the greatest apparent good," or "as what
appears most agreeable," than to say "that the will is determined by the
greatest apparent good," or " by what seems most agreeable;" because an
appearing most agreeable to the mind, and the mind's preferring, seem
scarcely distinct. We cant get away from the cause as the condition in
motive that equals the actual choice. Its not equilibrium choice but a
natural choice.mbG "
K_k: When it comes to our final destiny, in
His sovereignty God has decreed that we be free from the use of force
in seeking / finding / receiving our Savior. And He maintains our
ability to suppress and reject His loving advances toward us, even as He
does with satan and crew, as long as we stubbornly desire to do so.
Only
as we let go of our suppression and rebellion, with His help,
empowerment and enlightenment, do we begin to see our need for Christ
and His ability to meet our real needs, forever. He will not coerce
people to love and serve Him, but He will awaken and fulfill those, whom
He foreknows, who can become willing to respond to His drawing and
convicting - the "elect".
"BY determining the Will, if the
phrase be used with any meaning, must be intended, causing that the act
of the Will or choice should be thus, and not otherwise: and the Will is
said to be determined, when, in consequence of some action, or
influence, its choice is directed to, and fixed upon a particular
object. As when we speak of the determination of motion, we mean causing
the motion of the body to be in such a direction, rather than another. The Determination of the Will, supposes an effect, which must have a cause. If
the Will be determined, there is a Determiner. This must be supposed to
be intended even by them that say, The Will determines itself. If it be
so, the Will is both Determiner and determined; it is a cause that acts
and produces effects upon itself, and is the object of its own
influence and action." This is a contradiction.mbG
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2018
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election
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on: October 26, 2011, 08:49:49 PM
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THOR,
re: "Belief or unbelief is a choice. . . "
Perhaps
you can help me then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any
of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that.
Since you seem to by implying that you can consciously CHOOSE to
believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do
you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief
to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, “OK, at
this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I
CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this
new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?
Maybe you
could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is “a fairy
peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute
stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron. ” So, assuming that
you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you
are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt -
that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is,
how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from
lack of belief to belief?
Yes rs... this is a chance
choice that i do not quite understand how Kk or Thor can explain. Kk
says that he was woooed to believe but at the same time Kk was free to
choose. So did God actually bring kk to a point where God overcame Kks
unwillingness to accept the truth and violate his power to withstand
Gods so called woooing ? Or did Kk exercise his own power at the same
time God overcame kks power to believe ? Which is an impossibility. It
would turn the truth upside down because two antithetical propositions
cannot both be true at the same time and in the same sense. lol So
looking at the way we communicate then as a logical inference .Kk gets
away with teaching a contradiction. Which is allowing for a chance
happening. In other words in kks mind he thinks its perfectly logical
for these two opposite powers can both overcome each other at the same
time. lol. So really Kk allows that his first choice has no basis in
reality. If his whole free will doctrine is based upon a contradiction
then he gets to choose when he is responsible and when he is not. lol.
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2022
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom of the Will.... J. Edwards
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on: October 25, 2011, 07:47:12 AM
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2. With respect to the degree of the idea or
apprehension of the future pleasure. With regard to things which are the
subject of our thoughts, either past, present, or future, we have much
more of an idea or apprehension of some things than others; that is, our
idea is much more clear, lively, and strong. Thus the ideas we have of
sensible things by immediate sensation, are usually much more lively
than those we have by mere imagination, or by contemplation of them when
absent. My idea of the sun when I look upon it is more vivid, than when
I only think I of it. Our idea of the sweet relish of a delicious fruit
is usually stronger when we taste it, than when we only imagine it. And
sometimes, the idea we have of things by contemplation, are much
stronger and clearer, than at other times. Thus, a man at one time has a
much stronger idea of the pleasure which is to be enjoyed in eating
some sort of food that he loves, than at another. Now the strength of
the idea or the sense that men have of future good or evil, is one thing
that has great influence on their minds to excite volition. When two
kinds of future pleasure are presented for choice, though both are
supposed exactly equal by the judgment, and both equal certain, yet of
one the mind has a far more lively sense, than of the other; this last
has the greatest advantage by far to affect and attract the mind, and
move the will. It is now more agreeable to the mind, to take the
pleasure of which it has a strong and lively sense, than that of which
it has only a faint idea. The view of the former is attended with the
strongest appetite, and the greatest uneasiness attends the want of it;
and it is agreeable to the mind to have uneasiness removed, and its
appetite gratified. And if several future enjoyments are presented
together, as competitors for the choice of the mind, some of them judged
to be greater, and others less; the mind also having a more lively idea
of the good of some, and of others a less; and some are viewed as of
greater certainty or probability than others; and those enjoyments that
appear most agreeable in one of these respects, appear least so in
others: in this case, all other things being equal, the agreeableness of
a proposed object of choice will be in a degree some way compounded of
the degree of good supposed by the judgment, the degree of apparent
probability or certainty of that good, and the degree of the liveliness
of the idea the mind has of that good; because all together concur to
constitute the degree in which the object appears at present agreeable;
and accordingly will volition be determined. The avoidance of the potential pain and the pleasure of the object is what constitutes the strongest desire.mbG
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2023
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: OF THE WORK OF THE HOLY GHOST IN OUR SALVATION... Thomas Goodwin
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on: October 25, 2011, 07:32:17 AM
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CHAPTER II.
Some further observations
touching the coming of the Holy Ghost.—That he had a signal coming
designed to him for his glory at the feast of Pentecost, as Christ had a
visible coming in the flesh.—The great change made in the world
thereby.
Add to these observations out of those chapters, these
also that follow, concerning this his coming promised in those chapters,
but observed out of other scriptures.
J-"I. That a signal coming
should be appointed to him, to the performance of his work, as well as
unto Christ to perform his. This coming of his you have inculcated again
and again in these chapters, in these words, 'When he is come,' and the
like. Which imported that, although he was given to work regeneration
in men afore, even under the Old Testament (as Neh. ix. 20, 'He gave
them his good Spirit,' and many other places, shew), that yet to let all
the world of believers take notice his coming, and his work, he must
have a coming in state, in a solemn and visible manner, accom- . panied
with visible effects, as well as Christ had, and whereof all the Jews
should be, and were witnesses (thus Acts, chaps. ii. iv.), and it was
also apparent throughout the primitive times, in outward signs and
miracles, extraordinary gifts and conversions. And as Christ, though he
was under the Old Testament present with that church and with the
fathers—Acts vii. 87, 88, 'This is he that was in the church in the
wilderness, with the angel which spake to Moses in the mount Sinai, and
with our fathers'—yet had a visible coming in flesh to manifest his
person; that it was he who had done all those works then, and came now
to work more, and far greater works: so there was a visible coming of
the Holy Ghost, both in the appearance of him as a dove, descending on
Christ at first, and afterwards in the resemblance of cloven tongues.
And
there was not a personal union of the Holy Ghost with that dove and
those tongues, as in Christ's manifestation in the flesh there was
between the eternal Son of God and human nature. Yet these
appearances of the Holy Ghost are to be understood by us as visible
outward representations and discoveries of him to be the third person;
and that it had been he who was the author of all the whole work of
application in the saints then under the Old Testament; as well as now
of regeneration and sanctification, and of comforting; and that he had
been indwelling in all saints afore this his coming, as well as after.
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2025
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: OF THE WORK OF THE HOLY GHOST IN OUR SALVATION... Thomas Goodwin
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on: October 23, 2011, 03:43:39 PM
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Fifthly, He shall be a Comforter to you, against all sorrows, chap. xiv. 16, 17, 18.
Sixthly,
He shall assist and direct you in all yonr prayers, and be the inditer
of them for you; and so effectually as to obtain what you shall ask,
chap. xvi. 28, 'Verily, verily, whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my
. name, he will give it you; hitherto have you asked nothing in my
name;' for the Holy Ghost was not as yet given, as he in these chapters
promiseth he should be. 'But in that day,' namely, when the Holy Ghost
is come, 'ye shall ask in my name,' then (as in chap. xiv. 20). *In that
day,'— namely, when the Comforter is come, that word t?i tluU day
refers thereunto—' ye shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me.'
These works he specifies as to themselves.
But withal, seventhly, he mentions his works upon the world, by their ministry, unto whom they were sent. He shall bo a converter and convincer
of the world; that is, the glory of the conversion of the Gentiles is
reserved for him, by your ministry: chap. xvi. verses 8, 9, 'When he is
come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of
judgment: of sin, because they believe not on me,' &c. To which
three enumerations the total of the work of conversion is reduced, of
which afterwards.
Obs. 8. Thirdly, observe what Christ says, I
myself must be gone (saith he) and disappear, to the end it may appear
that all this whole work is his, not mine: ver. 7, 'If I go not away,
the Comforter will not come.' He will not do these works while I am
here, and I have committed all to him. That look, as my Father hath
visibly ' committed all judgment unto me,' (John v. 22, 28, ' For the
Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son;
that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father'), so
here: I and my Father will send him, having committed all these things
to him, that all men might honour the Holy Ghost,
even as they honour the Father and the Son. Even as in like manner the
reason why the Spirit was not sent, whilst Christ was on earth, was to
shew that not the Father alone sent him, but that he came from Christ,
as well as from the Father. And so Christ, he went to heaven to shew
that both Father and Son would send the Holy Ghost from thonce, Acts ii.
82, 88, 'This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of
the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this which
you see and hear.' Thus wary and careful are every of the persons to
provide for the honour of each other in our hearts. And as careful
should we be to give it to them accordingly.
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