Saturday, November 7, 2015

2057  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Meditation on: October 13, 2011, 10:17:46 AM
I believe there is value in focusing on your anxious responses both emotionally and physically. But we do not naturally think that some things we do ... do not seem to have a direct relationship obtaining the rest we are seeking. Its interesting to me that we focus so much on our fight to not be anxious with the potential end in the exercise to not being anxious. But this is short circuiting the process of stimulating our minds as something that trains the will in this indirect way. Before we choose to move in a direction we have in our possession the active world of our meta physical actions. Our minds are really the choosing mechanism..not the will itself.

 This is why our minds can be our trader. They can be our biggest enemy. If we have an enemy to ourselves before we choose then we will basically just go through the motions. Nothing will be decided by the personal experience of what we are pleased with but we will be like robots looking for the next good counselor. lol. This is why the bible gives us an anti intuitive way to be transformed. Because we are blind to seeing the universe as a spiritual journey rather than a responsive deterministic decider in choice alone.

 Our minds are the only way we experience positive pleasure. Positive pleasure is based upon what we know rather than how we can get ourselves into a state where we do not think. Which is an impossibility. To not think is to be dead.. .lol. But every thought has a spiritual component in it. Our minds are a reflection of who we are by what God consciously determines we are in the experience.( Sorry about his rambling statement... i know you do not understand.. lol) ROLF... We can only enjoy positive thoughts when they are controlled by God. The basis for resting from our own anxiety is thinking thoughts after God.    
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2058  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 13, 2011, 09:52:00 AM
Let me say something here that is obvious. Let me rrrrrrammmmbbbbbllllleee on... lol

This conversation has been the usual ...God chooses not to move the rock therefore the rock is free... lol ..GOD IS HOLDING THE ROCK UP... LOL LOL. This is a total denial.. can i use that concept in a theological way? lol A TOTAL DENIAL OF GODS PASSIVE RIGHTEOUSNESS. God created the universe in six days and then He rested... did God fall asleep? lol.. these guys want us to believe this. God never sleeps or slumbers!!! Does this mean that God watches us like a clock watcher who offers not reason for the purpose of a clock other than it comes by happenstance because God ceases to control the universe by willingly disappearing?... lol.

This is one of the things that really bugs me about these morons. They create a straw man by Gods silence. There fixation is on what we have not done or who we need to do instead of who we are when we do it... sorry for the intellectual idea.... getting a little two dimensional for these fellows as we say in the south.. lol
But its necessary that God remains silent to us for the purpose of determining how we are going to choose. lol If we rest God is resting in us. This is His condescending way of recreating us from the inside out. God actually has a passive righteousness.
Human beings have a big problem. Its what happens when God is silent. For some reason we begin to think crazy when we find God being silent. We begin to look at all the other ways we can get Gods attention other than focusing on who we are rather than what we can do. We do not exist to perform before God but we exist to glorify God by enjoying Him forever.

Whenever we say .. you are what you think ..your who you are in the moment by what you think about yourself... we lose the other side. They seem to be blind to accepting that we exist to be who we are by who God is. In some ways they try to humanize us and make us subject to horizontal communication as the motif for advancing in this life. They do not acknowledge Gods condescending communication to make us holistic by the focus of who we are rather than what we do. lol.

God has made us to rest in Him as if He was the only other person in this universe. Why do we rest in God? Because we try really hard? No because God rested from His work in creation. We are defined by what God does not choose to do as the basis of our own image. God does seem to be silent. This is why the gospel is about faith alone and and not pre determining who God is by what He does. If we only see God as responding to what we do then God will never be God when He does not do something we think He should do... our whole world is shattered... lol. But we know there is a big side of being who we are by what we think we are as God is free to be silent and yet be the same God as if He was speaking loud and clear. May i say?.. i warn you about this kind of thinking .... do not divide God. It will be to your own unbelief.    
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2059  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 13, 2011, 09:01:28 AM

Although you probably meant it to be funny, that was a very condescending statement you just made to Thor, MBG. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And frankly, he is right. You do tend to rattle on. Then the point(s) you are trying to make end up 'hidden' in all the hyperbole and so called intellectual blather. 

Make your point(s) and then go back and edit them down.

I try to skim your writings for nuggets and usually end up giving up. Just don't have time to read all the filler.

Try it.

Heres my rule... I do not care what others say about my writing. I treat everyone with respect in whatever they want to say. I do not limit what a person thinks. However you want to prove your argument is fine with me. Ive read stuff that is just ignorant and without a biblical basis. Thor has taken personal shots at me. Im just defending myself. His humanism is distasteful to me. But i respond just like i would allow others think with their own thoughts. Not some kind of neat packaged writing that someone else has taught them. Oh ... havent heard from you in a while Doogie.. dont be bashful ... join in the argument so you wont be so focused on how it comes across... at least earn my respect first. 
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2060  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 13, 2011, 05:49:48 AM
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If God chooses not to enable Himself to enable me He still is responsible for my choice. lol. To choose not to do something is still a choice. What your saying is that God is not responsible for making a standard for my choosing that gives me the freedom to choose. If you say that God limits Himself to allow me freedom then God limits Himself every time i choose . My consecutive choices over my life time are preceded by God choosing not to enable Himself to allow me to be enabled. Your saying that God is not responsible for my choosing for myself even tho He decides by Him freely limiting Himself to let me choose. Ive always believed that God decides before hand by freely choosing to not enable me by Him deciding to limit Himself. I fully acknowledge choice ....to choose not to doing something..... where as you do not .


There is a lot to be said about being clear and concise when making statements. Unfortunately many times (not all) you are neither.
Maybe you were trying to be ironic or maybe you deliberately try to be obscure and convoluted for whatever reason. God knows!

Anyway, here's the thing, it's not particularly helpful to anyone. You should practice saying what you're going to say in the fewest words and in the clearest possible way so no mistake can be made in what you are saying. Flowery language and restating several times over what should have been sufficient the first time is unnecessary. And usually the restatements are just as confusing…sorry!

So in answer to your above confusing comment I would say that you are not saying what I am saying. Moving on!

I think you will agree that Jesus is fully G-d. And Jesus limited Himself when He became a man. One example of that limiting is found in Mathew and Mark.

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Mar 6:5  And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Mar 6:6  And he marveled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.


Mathew relates the say story:

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Mat 13:58  And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.


Here is a case where Jesus/G-d wanted to do more but man's lack of faith "prevented" Him from doing it. These are the rules that G-d set up and although He could over-ride them, He doesn't. At least in the story.
Jesus then proceeded to go about teaching G-d's Word which if heard would best remedy their lack of faith.

Thor Smiley

The waters are too deep for you.. lets move on.. lol
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2061  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom of the Will.... J. Edwards on: October 13, 2011, 05:45:19 AM
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/renewing-your-mind/listen/what-is-free-will-227330.html

RC Sproul ... What is Free Will?
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2062  Forums / Theology Forum / Freedom of the Will.... J. Edwards on: October 11, 2011, 02:53:29 PM
PART I.
Section I.

        CONCERNING THE NATURE OF THE WILL



IT may possibly be thought, that there is no great need of going about to define or describe the Will; this word being generally as well understood as any other words we can use to explain it: and so perhaps it would be, not philosophers, metaphysicians, and polemic divines, brought the matter into obscurity by the things they have said of it. But since it is so, I think it may be of some use, and will tend to greater clearness in The following discourse, to say a few things concerning it.

And therefore I observe, that the Will (without any metaphysical refining) is, That by which the mind chooses any thing. The faculty of the will, is that power, or principle of mind, by which it is capable of choosing: an act of the will is the same as an act of choosing or choice.

If any think it is a more perfect definition of the will, to say, that it is that by which the soul either chooses or refuse, I am content with it; though I think it enough to say, it is that by which the soul chooses: for in every act of will whatsoever, the mind chooses one thing rather than another; it chooses something rather than the contrary or rather than the want or non-existence of that thing. So in every act of refusal, the mind chooses the absence of the thing refused; the positive and the negative are set before the mind for its choice, and it chooses the negative; and the mind's making its choice in that case is properly the act of the Will: the Will's determining between the two, is a voluntary determination; but that is the same thing as making a choice. So that by whatever names we call the act of the Will, choosing, refusing, approving, disapproving, liking, disliking, embracing, rejecting, determining, directing, commanding, forbidding, inclining, or being averse, being pleased or displeased with; all may be reduced to this of choosing. For the soul to act voluntarily, is evermore to act electively. Mr. Locke (1) says, " The Will signifies nothing but a power or ability to prefer or choose." And, in the foregoing page, he says, "The word preferring seems best to express the act of volition;" but adds, that "it does it not precisely; for, though a man would prefer flying to walking, yet who can say he ever wills it?" But the instance he mentions, does not prove that there is any thing else in willing, but merely preferring: for it should be considered what is the immediate object of the will, with respect to a man's walking, or any other external action; which is not being removed from one place to another; on the earth or through the air; these are remoter objects of preference; but such or such an immediate exertion of himself. The thing next chosen, or preferred, when a man wills to walk is not his being removed to such a place where he would be, but such an exertion and motion of his legs and feet &c, in order to it. And his willing such an alteration in his body in the present moment, is nothing else but his choosing or preferring such an alteration in his body at such a moment, or his liking it better than the forbearance of it. And God has so made and established the human nature, the soul being united to a body in proper state that the soul preferring or choosing such an immediate exertion or alteration of the body, such an alteration instantaneously follows. There is nothing else in the actions of my mind, that I am conscious of while I walk, but only my preferring or choosing, through successive moments that there should be such alterations of my external sensations and motions; together with a concurring habitual expectation that it will be so; having ever found by experience, that on such an immediate preference, such sensations and motions do actually, instantaneously, and constantly arise. But it is not so in the case of flying; though a man may be said remotely to choose or prefer flying; yet he does not prefer, or desire, under circumstances in view, any immediate exertion of the members of his body in order to it; because he has no expectation that he should obtain the desired end by any such exertion and he does not prefer, or incline to, any bodily exertion under this apprehended circumstance, of its being wholly in vain. So that if we carefully distinguish the proper objects of the several acts of the will, it will not appear by this, and such like instances, that there is any difference between volition and preference; or that a man's choosing liking best, or being pleased with a thing, are not the same with his willing that thing. Thus an act of the will is commonly expressed by its pleasing a man to do thus or thus ; and a man doing as he wills, and doing as he pleases are in common speech the same thing.
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2063  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: October 11, 2011, 01:12:16 PM
Here is how we are to think. When we sin it proves that we do not have the ability to atone for our sins. This is why we confess that we are unable to be confident in our justifying ourselves before God. This is why we confess our sins because we want to present ourselves to God as in need of grace. Sin and grace should never be separated or made to create a contradiction in our purpose in this life. The end of our sins is in the gospel. Its not in our ability to examine ourselves. There is only one way to peace and that is through being justified by faith. Its not in our confession, not in our examination, not in our reasoning of the deserving discipline. Its in our focus on the gospel of grace.
Our sin does not lead us to being humbled through the accusation but it leads us to find our confidence in being freed from our responsibility before God to atone for our sin. We do not get better by thinking in a way where we focus on our efforts to overcome our sins. But we advance when we think like God has instructed and taught us to think. When we sin we acknowledge that if God were to hold our sins against us then we could not stand. So we not only see that we are sinners but we are unable to do anything to appease Gods grace. This means that as long as we are in these bodies we are always responding to our sin by trusting that we stand in grace as the basis for our acceptance and not anything we do in response to our guilt or sorrow.
We are not defined by our sin but by His love. God decided before the foundation of the world to love us with a love that is eternal. This love must come through grace because we do not have the capacity to earn eternal love. God who is the only good cannot lower His standard of goodness so that he grades on a curve by responding to our good efforts. But God must love us with the only purpose in loving us as to show that He alone deserves the praise because He alone is the only one who is pleased with His standard of love. This is what He describes as a love that reaches to the heavens, His faithfulness to the skies. His righteousness is like the mighty mountains. His justice is like the great deep. In other words its beyond our ability to understand.
Why do we have this order in the words. Because this is explaining Gods will in covenant. Gods eternal love is an unfailing love. Its a love that is extended to us as a gift. Gods love is His covenant to fulfill His promises to us . He extends His love to us through His unfailing kindness. His kindness is His unmerited favor of gifting us with salvation and covenanting with us to bring us to the end of our salvation through taking care of us along the way. This is His display of His faithfulness. His faithfulness is displayed by Him providing for our needs , giving us hope, shining in our faces His favor, giving us desires to seek Him when we feel faint. Reaching down and delivering us from our enemies in the day of trouble, and providing us with His special presence when we are at our lowest. His hand goes under our lowest trials.

Not only does He provide for us but He defends us as if we were perfectly righteous. He speaks on our behalf. Quiets our accusers, encircles us with His protection. Gives us ministering angels when we are being attacked and arguing on our behalf against the accusations of the religious self righteous. God indeed upholds His name in us through establishing His righteous standard in His covenant people.     
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2064  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 11, 2011, 12:41:22 PM

mbG:  "If you say that God limits Himself to allow me freedom then God limits Himself every time i choose."

K_k:  Yes, He could at any time reveal His full glory, power and purity, which would destroy us instantly.  But He limits Himself, shields us from His complete presence so we can live, and have the opportunity to receive immortal bodies in Christ.  Very nice of Him, wouldn't you say...

mbG:  "My consecutive choices over my life time are preceded by God choosing not to enable Himself to allow me to be enabled."

K_k:  Wonder if yep can see a "pretzel" here.  I seem to see one.  Our consecutive choices over our lifetimes are His choice to let us choose within the constraints He selects.  Potty-training.

mbG to thor:  "Your saying that God is not responsible for my choosing for myself even tho He decides by Him freely limiting Himself to let me choose."

K_k:  God takes responsibility for all our wrong choices by the death of His Son on the Cross, and offering that as a free Gift.  Which creates the responsibility for us to either choose to accept His payment for our sin, and His unending Life, or reject them and choose the consequences instead.  So the ability to choose freely is God's Gift of responsibility to us, and the choices made are ours, a return of responsibility to Him.

Recognizing that responsibility is "the ability to respond appropriately", all responsibility comes from God and He accepts as much of ours as we will trust Him with.  That's like love, man!

mbG to thor:  "I fully acknowledge choice ....to choose not to doing something..... where as you do not ."

K_k:  Say what?  Did we not choose to read this post?  

Here is what i am saying. God decrees whatsoever comes to pass. There is nothing that i do that He does not limit my choice to do that thing and not the other. But your telling me that God works equally with me .. your words are empowering me. Im using your argument about God limiting His ability to choose only to the point that does not violate my freedom as arguing that your saying the same thing i am but not admitting it to me. If God is responsible for positive choices then He is responsible for not doing something that allows me to choose in an equilibrium way. The fact that God chooses to prevent Himself from enabling me fully is His responsibility that makes me choose what He wants me to choose.

Its like your  saying i am only responsible for the things i do that are in disobedience to Gods commands.. but not responsible for the things i fail to do or meeting the standard of ability to fully obey God.
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2065  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Where does the Bible say Jesus loves me? on: October 11, 2011, 08:37:36 AM
There is no place in scripture that gives us revealed words that we are Christ loved ones. Only the saints like the apostle are proven to be loved by divine revealed information in the text. But we can have an assurance as if we are in the text.
There are many way that we can know we are His loved ones. But let me talk about finding Christ through experience. The old reformers used to ask the question of a person who wanted to join a church.. did you have that experience? What were they talking about? The apostle says that Gods Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the children of God. So that we cry Abba Father. We believe that Christ in becoming a man provides for us the revelation of the only God Man who ever walked the earth. Christ says if you have seen me ...you have seen the Father. Christ not only leads us to the Father but He provides the basis for us to be accepted by our Father. We approach God through Christ righteousness.
How do we know this? Can we know it directly? Do we just know it by the word of divine revelation? The point of God loving the world is to show that there is only one plan of salvation. Its not through words necessarily but through a relationship of love. God is love. There is only one revelation of love in this world and that is to know God.
Christ says My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. So the reason that we follow Christ is because He actually speaks to us in this salvation. It goes like this.. no one who follows Christ will remain silent to Him. Because in our regeneration we are given new desires to seek Christ. We naturally follow our desires for spiritual food as we do to be fed physically. We have the basis for an adventure in this life in our experiencing being taken to the point where we cry Abba Father out of a heart of gratitude and wonder. Have you experienced" it"? 
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2066  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: October 11, 2011, 08:19:03 AM

mbG:  "We must understand that God is love. When we are transparent before God we come to Him as a God of love. We view God as being able while we are totally unable and dependent. So its leaving our lives into His hands. When we experience pain and weakness we are experiencing a small part of our final death. Transparency is simply knowing that we are finite and concluding that lifes pains are a warning that death is approaching."

K_k:  I agree with the first statements here, and am grateful for the truths they express.  But transparency isn't necessarily related directly to death, but more to honesty.  It is a "oneness with Truth", with nothing to hide, because we have come to trust our Dad, and know that He knows all there is to know about all there is to know about, including ourselves and our "secrets".

Indirectly, i can see a connection to death because when we stand in His Presence we will be stripped of all pretence, justifications, rationalizations, and defending of our sins.  When we see ourselves as He sees us, we will indeed be transparent, for there will be no more hiding under mental fig leaves.  (Notice the word "parent" build into transparent?   cheesy )

This is where you and I disagree. God not only knows about our weakness and sins but He created us in such a way that our sins are necessary because God pre determined them. There is never a time when we do not live in the reality of practicing sin. So transparency is not having a perfect understanding of how our sins and weaknesses are understood by us in this holistic way but there is never a time when we approach God with a perfect knowledge of the truth about ourselves. Because first there is not enough time in our lives to find complete honesty with all of our sins. lol. The Psalmist says that His sins were in a greater number than the hairs of his head. lol. In other words in being transparent before God he saw his sins as too great to be self confident that he could see himself in light of all of his sins in an honest view. The sin was multiplied to put him into confusion so that he would see that Gods grace was enough and not his self repentance. lol.
God frees us from ourselves by making sin big in our view so that we will experience free grace. Our view of sin is not really listing them or trying to make a plan to overcome them one by one but its seeing the depth of our sin so that we understand the powers necessary in us that provide the basis for our identifying with Christ. When we think about sin its not the things we do as much as the height and length and depth of our sin that provide the back drop as the redeeming value of Christ atonement on our behalf. The entanglement of sin gives us a transparent view of Gods free grace.   
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2067  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 11, 2011, 07:55:38 AM
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mbG:  "To allow someone to perform a task is to be the arbitrator of what the conditions are that are part of the allowing. There still are boundaries. So to allow is the same thing as to determine how they are going to choose since their choice has boundaries."

Ok, now you're making sense.
The boundaries set limits and of course being human we have limits. We don't have super powers or magical powers. We can only respond within human boundaries. Now how broad or narrow those boundaries are globally determined by G-d and by our circumstances, knowledge and awareness and even courage? There are a lot of factors involved in any given circumstance. G-d may limit our choices but still gives us choices and may even interne due to someone’s prayer are other factors we are completely unaware of.
Boundaries set the playing field and circumstances further alter those boundaries along with unknown factors. But there are usually choices within all those conditional boundaries to be made and G-d allows us by His grace to make those decisions.  Can those decisions mess up G-d's ultimate plans? No G-d is G-d and one way or another His will, shall be done.

Thor Wink

Thor you can go to the Edwards down load on freedom of the will. You may have a comprehension problem here.

If God chooses not to enable Himself to enable me He still is responsible for my choice. lol. To choose not to do something is still a choice. What your saying is that God is not responsible for making a standard for my choosing that gives me the freedom to choose. If you say that God limits Himself to allow me freedom then God limits Himself every time i choose . My consecutive choices over my life time are preceded by God choosing not to enable Himself to allow me to be enabled. Your saying that God is not responsible for my choosing for myself even tho He decides by Him freely limiting Himself to let me choose. Ive always believed that God decides before hand by freely choosing to not enable me by Him deciding to limit Himself. I fully acknowledge choice ....to choose not to doing something..... where as you do not .
 
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2068  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Liars on: October 08, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
What man do you know who lives by truth?

I know that Jesus did.  Another?

"It is better to keep quite than to expose a matter."  What does this mean?  This thinking is the root of so much hurt.  Pretending something is other than it is, is living a lie.

Praying that the Holy Spirit control one's words is the only way one

If the Truth lives in us, He is our Life, and we live by the Truth, even as we learn to turn from our lies.

Hope and faith are confidence in God, not in deception.  Praying that His Spirit, Who is Holy, control our hearts will lead to more Truth than we have ever expressed before.

"Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another."  Ephesians 4:25

"These are the things you shall do:
 Speak each man the truth to his neighbor;
 Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace;
 Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor;
 And do not love a false oath.
 For all these are things that I hate,’
 Says the LORD (YHWH).”  Zechariah 8:16-17

Truth is the context of Christ as center.. not necessarily revealing things the bible does not authorize.
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2069  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Liars on: October 08, 2011, 01:56:00 PM
What man do you know who lives by truth?

I know that Jesus did.  Another?

"It is better to keep quite than to expose a matter."  What does this mean?  This thinking is the root of so much hurt.  Pretending something is other than it is, is living a lie.

Praying that the Holy Spirit control one's words is the only way one
Im not saying that exposure is wrong. I am simply giving you the other side of the proverbs.. We only hear things we want to hear. We view things most of the time through what the world teaches us works. We do not consider that what the counselors promise when put through a close scrutiny only works about 5 percent of the time. We just assume that what is exposed will go away. lol.
But the truth is we do not make any one do something. We have no power over another persons will. If we started from the proposition that God is other than man is then we would need to make Gods sovereign rule over mankind and absolute standard. This means that all events in our lives have no real reason unless God decreed them to be so. There is no necessary event that is caused by us alone. It was always necessary because of a will that is the only will that is strong enough to override all other wills.Its only an imagination in our own minds that we can make someone change.The big lie is that the world can answer the behavior of man. They can modify it by the wise counsel they offer. With a closer look at the numbers.. we have more counsel and we have more divorce, murder... broken kids and more abuse on the poor... lol
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2070  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: October 08, 2011, 12:59:58 PM
God speaks to us. He speaks future salvation. So we are made to hope in His future word of salvation. Our present anxiety and frustration is only satisfied in God. Salvation is in God alone. Now then our new birth affords us a new desire to find all of our salvation in God. We do not need to actually think that our own planning will change our lives. But we are made to first create future reality by how we fellowship with God through word and Spirit. We are to mortify the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit alone! We know the Spirit searches our hearts.. He searches the deep things of our hearts. The Spirit searches our inner man. So we say that our thought life controlled by the Spirit is the created view of our future reality. We can find all of our confidence in seeking God alone.
Our present experience is how we feel about ourselves.. how we know ourselves in what we experience in the reality of peace... love...joy...confidence... and knowledge that we understand our own purpose in our present experience. We have a sense that we are going some where that is far greater than what we can trust in of what we experience through our physical senses. In other words we are controlled by an inward compass that cannot be overturned by the circumstances of this life.

Instead we begin to learn that God creates future salvation through our faith that He will provide it to us in His covenant promises. So we learn that in our minds is a world that creates future reality rather than the world determining our future purpose. We value the opposite of what the world values. We value things above the world values things on this earth. The reason we value things above is because we know that this world is controlled by evil and Satan.
This is what is amazing about this resurrection power that dwells in us. We do not fight against flesh and blood but we have the ability to fight in a realm that does not have physical boundaries. We fight in a meta physical world. We have confidence not necessarily in the physical things we enjoy or the physical words that we hear. But we have confidence in that we are connected to Gods omnipresence... omnipotence... omniscience as the experience of a power that dwells in us. In other words we experience an invisible fellowship of the reality of real invisible forces that are produced in us to prove they are real by what happens through us in the real world. We are in a sense kings of a new spiritual kingdom as the basis of our not being deceived by our physical senses. We supersede the physical world. Our view of reality is our creative inner experience. Its Christ in us the hope of glory.    
 
2071  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 08, 2011, 12:36:27 PM
Thor your theology is defining God down. He allows his creation to exercise free libertarian choice but he does not willing allow them..lol. To allow someone to perform a task is to be the arbitrator of what the conditions are that are part of the allowing. There still is boundaries. So to allow is the same thing as to determine how they are going to choose since their choice has boundaries.
Your God is like a group therapist. He develops connection by defining the boundaries of the choices a person makes. This is the same thing as saying that God is not personally dogmatic about His principles but they ebb and flow with the motif of freedom that is built in the connection. lol. God is like a big therapist in the sky. But we know that God searches the heart and He produces the reality in the connection by upholding His law as how He acts upon us. Will is the exercise of power... law is the power of God showing Himself as God. Without God willingly determining whatsoever comes to pass He has no basis of demanding perfect obedience to His law. If God gave men the power of will for self determination then He does not uphold His holy standard in the cause means and ends of His creation. He ceases to be God.

So then why do you care what I say as though it will change anyone’s fate?

Your G-d is just going to make things happen in a predetermined way no matter what anyone thinks so why even give a thought to persuade or argue your point.
Nothing makes any difference anyway...it's all decided ahead of time. You would be better off engaging in basket weaving.
You might not even be one of the saved...you only think or hope you are. There is nothing you can do to change your destiny if G-d has placed you on the highway to hell.  You might be a religious person with strong beliefs except G-d didn't show you any grace and picked someone else in your stead. Bloody hell…Too bad!
This is the world you believe in but I believe that we are saved if we place our trust in the blood of Jesus and not in some theology of possible predestination. There is no way with your belief that you can know if you are saved and trusting in your religious emotions won't help.

So you should just set back and relax.

"Que Sera Sera" - What will be will be!

Thor Wink

God has spoken and we are to focus on what He says to distinguish between what is true and what is false. God does not offer suggestions. lol. He does not provide possibilities. lol. What He promises He will accomplish. He does not skirt around the exercise of free determination as if He was concerned that we disagreed... "Who has known the mind of God and who has been His counselor?" Rather God distinguishes the good and bad from His freedom to do as He pleases." Who can resist Gods will?"
We trust God because He is free to act according to His will. If God was not free to do as He pleased then His word and promise cannot be trusted. Because God is absolutely sovereign we know there is nothing that we can do to change the good that He works through us. We cannot make God any less good and we cannot make Him any more good. God is only good because He is free to choose whatsoever comes to pass proving that He alone is good. Without God there is alienation and selfishness. Without God there is no love.
We must learn that to focus on our own words is to focus on human determination. But we are made to focus on Gods word as our future is determined by that word. So we only have hope in the future because God decided to love us from eternity past as the basis of being confident of seeing His promises come to us in the future. So the only hope we have in the future is what God has said about our future. We hope in His word because that word is a word of future salvation. If we could determine our own salvation then we would not hope in Gods word alone. The more we focus on Gods word of salvation the more we will have a heart that is drawn out to praise God for who He is and not for what we can do to prove that we are free. 
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2072  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Liars on: October 08, 2011, 12:18:34 PM
Lying in the ot is not necessarily fully exposing oneself. A person can tell the truth and cause great harm. If you look in proverbs there is a standard of speech that is taught. We are counseled to avoid harsh words or words that pierce like a sword. So a truthful tongue knows when to speak and applies his words to the situation so that he brings healing.

This is why in the wisdom books we do not start with the human controlling factor in how we conduct ourselves but we allow the bible to expose our hearts. The word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than a double edged sword. It divides the thoughts from the intents of the heart. A wise tongue is developed through seeking wisdom like we search for God. We must always start with the heart or the inward thoughts of a person and let the bible distinguish between one who is controlled by the flesh from a person who is controlled by the Spirit. We cant take short cuts to the biblical mandates of developing speech that is truthful. If we are not controlled by the Spirit then we are non of His.

A person who lives by the truth is one who understands the doctrine of sin. That person knows that unless God by the Spirit controls his tongue that he will do much harm. It is better to keep quite than to expose a matter. A wise tongue is speaks the word of God so that it is applied in a way that gets to the heart of the matter. I always start the basis of human connection through a doctrinal lenses. If we agree on doctrine and we encourage one another daily then we will be focused on igniting the flame of the spiritual gifts of another person. We can only do this by sharing in real koinonia. This spiritual fellowship is sharing Christ with one another. Its focused on Christ. So we always say that a wise man thinks thoughts after Christ and speaks in this way.    
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2073  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: October 07, 2011, 03:47:56 PM
Kk as always you miss parts of my argument. In this case you left out the transparency part of the argument.
We must understand that God is love. When we are transparent before God we come to Him as a God of love. We view God as being able while we are totally unable and dependent. So its leaving our lives into His hands. When we experience pain and weakness we are experiencing a small part of our final death. Transparency is simply knowing that we are finite and concluding that lifes pains are a warning that death is approaching.

So God offers to us a way to approach Him through redemption. He actually not only has bought us out of a slave market but He has placed us in His family by adoption so that we carry His name. But Gods name is not like mens names. Gods name is His sovereign rule over every area of the universe. God is not sovereignly neutral and balanced between love and hate as we are renewed but He lays aside His hostility toward us in His Son so that we enjoy peace through Christ. God designed the exercise of His love to be His name being upheld in us. So that we can come to Him as we are and express our sorrows without fearing rejection.

 What can we complain to Him about? We can complain about our sin. Sin is the cause of all of our sorrows. The apostle says that what He does not want to do... that he does. Most of our problems are that we think we are better than the apostle. So we look at this verse and say.. these are the small sins he is talking about... lol. But the other guy has really big sins. We conclude that the Apostle was talking about sin becoming so big in His eyes that He had passed the test on the really big sins and the Apostle saw all of his small ones. But what did Jesus say?...if the apostle was reasoning like this why did not he make that distinction himself? Who are you to put words in the apostles mouth?

Did not Jesus condemn the Pharisees for thinking their sins were ones where they did not do them willingly? Where they were not like the women who were caught in adultery? And the apostle being a pharisee .. the chief of pharisees as to the law was faultless. Was the apostle only arguing that salvation could not be obtained through obedience to the law? The apostle said that all of these requirements that he kept were like dodo. He was not saying they were not just things to reject in order to obtain salvation. The apostle had a disdain for them.

We must see that God has promised to forgive all of our sins. That if He were to hold our sins against us then we could not stand? If He were to deal with us according to our sins then we could not be loved by Him defending law breakers. We must understand there is no hope unless God extends His unfailing love to us on the basis of His free grace for the purpose of upholding His name through us. When we look at the apostle who said that he did not do the good he wanted to do we must not think how we can prove that other people take God for granted but we must turn to the gospel and allow the gospel to be the words that are put in the apostles mouth.  
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2074  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 07, 2011, 03:25:03 PM
Thor your theology is defining God down. He allows his creation to exercise free libertarian choice but he does not willing allow them..lol. To allow someone to perform a task is to be the arbitrator of what the conditions are that are part of the allowing. There still is boundaries. So to allow is the same thing as to determine how they are going to choose since their choice has boundaries.
Your God is like a group therapist. He develops connection by defining the boundaries of the choices a person makes. This is the same thing as saying that God is not personally dogmatic about His principles but they ebb and flow with the motif of freedom that is built in the connection. lol. God is like a big therapist in the sky. But we know that God searches the heart and He produces the reality in the connection by upholding His law as how He acts upon us. Will is the exercise of power... law is the power of God showing Himself as God. Without God willingly determining whatsoever comes to pass He has no basis of demanding perfect obedience to His law. If God gave men the power of will for self determination then He does not uphold His holy standard in the cause means and ends of His creation. He ceases to be God.
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2075  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: October 06, 2011, 01:35:04 PM
Well these are evil days.. I never thought that there could be such an intense hate in our society. In a sense we just reflect what our culture is. We react to it not knowing how to deal with what we have not been confronted with in our past experience. Some people refuse to look at the real facts. Others just become overly sorrowful and internally bitter.We know that most heart are failing within them.
Ive been drawn out in prayer like ive never experienced before. God has given us a book that gives us a real mature communication. We can become intensely angry as long as we follow His guide lines. We can feel the way things actually are in these evil days in the most personal way in His presence. We do not need to find things to change as the way to meet our most deepest needs. But we can change things through real prayer. This world has been turned upside down by a few people. We may look at the controlling parts of our world and conclude that the whole society has departed from God but this is just hiding by making evil universal where it really falls on our leaders.
Where ever there is an evil king there is oppression of the people. And we know that all our problems come through having to defend ourselves from the force of evil. The force of evil in a society is always downward. But we know that in Gods kingdom it is upside down. So we have an ability to endure because He defines reality in our world by protecting His elect. He just wants us to command the Lord of glory. lol.
Ive got to be honest.. ive never been taken to such extreme anger since i have been alive. My natural disposition is to let things go and not worry about these things .But  ive will tell you... God is terribly personal. He comes in His holiness as a consuming fire. He will avenge His elect. The Lamb on the throne has purchased men from every tribe and language with His priceless blood. We do not trust in our horses because they will fail us in the end. But in Heaven God has His horses. He will respond with exact precision to what we ask of Him in His will. He loves for us to ask in a very precise way. We may think that human discipline is a good quality in the christian faith. But God wants us to learn how to know our times and pray accordingly .. like a boxer who hits the target every time. We must give the blow that will knock this evil out.

 I know that it is an art to box violently and not to shadow box. Its precision spiritual battle on our knees that brings us to real confidence. Its not really trusting in men.  We must be drawn to call on God with a passion whether its out of love or intense hate because we know that He will fill us with an overflowing sense of His presence. My friends we do not live in a world that progresses as we progress but we live in a world that is created through prayer. Prayers that are drawn out go farther into the future than we can imagine. One day these prayers will be unleashed to consume this old earth and we will have a new heaven and a new earth .Not only will He store up our curses but He will reward us because of our obedient prayers in His name.  
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2076  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: October 06, 2011, 08:27:26 AM
This is a very simple stand we make. We are saying that we do not need anything to make us better other than growing in word and Spirit. Every wish that does not start with this encouragement comes from religious pride. Our question is not whether a man has become better at doing something good. But does this man bleed scripture? lol When we look at the wise way to think and to proceed we always go back to the source. We always examine the causes.

How do we examine these causes and apply them to the way we should go? We say the word of God is the only rule we need to live a life of godliness. So we are in the business of comparing scripture with the wise way to go. We do not focus on the act itself to go but we focus on the communication of the wisdom of this world with the wisdom of scripture. We begin with the fear of God.

This is why growth in wisdom is through illumination of the word of God. We make wisdom the analogy of the word of God. The bible is a self revelation. It produces what it commands and promises. We say the Spirit produces in us wisdom through the word but the Spirit is the word. Every word in the bible is a Trinatarian word. When we define truth it is completed in the entire word of God. Truth is connected like a string line that holds all the words of scripture together. This is Gods spoken revelation to us. It cannot be broken ...changed... redefined... but it works as a self revelation where ever it is spoken. The bible does not need for us to prove that it works. lol.

We must value the possession of this revelation as we value gold. We say a person who is rich on this earth hides this revelation in his heart. The world is a place where all conflict is defined by the word of God. The world is a place where the fight centers on what is reality as it is defined by the word of God. There is no real respect of wisdom without weighing a man according to his knowledge of the word of God. We value Gods revelation so much that we would separate ourselves from men according to a few words they would say in conflict with this word. No matter how bad a sinner a man is .. we value the man because of the word of God as his own strength and not his intrinsic weakness as who he is. Thats how valuable the word of God is.    
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2077  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 06, 2011, 08:04:39 AM
The warnings in scripture for Gods elect do not preclude that we will be cut off. But they point us to our need of grace. When a believer looks to the law he is confronted with his own sin and weakness. This small window of exposure does not create renewal in as a natural ability to believe. Because the commandment produces in us guilt and sorrow. The commandment revives the process of death in us. This is Gods decretive way of forming in us a new man. I do not think we are strong enough to work our own righteousness in our hearts.

This is why we naturally look away from our selves to Christ. I call this Gods searching light to conform us to the image of Christ. The process of looking to the law is to convince us of our own weakness in dealing with sin and temptation. Its to produce a lack of confidence in our trying to work for our salvation. In this sense God uses our sins for our own good. God decrees our sins in order that He might get the glory. But at the same time God frees us once and for all from holding our sin natures against us. This happens through justification by faith. Ps 32

We learn to grow through healthy teaching and not through self effort. When we look away from ourselves unto Christ then we find His accomplishment as the captain of our sanctification to be the ability to find all of our confidence outside of ourselves. God works good in us through showing us we are weak so that we focus on whatsoever is good and lovely for the purpose of being exposed to a teaching that there is a much greater promise applied to us that is beyond our understanding. We conclude that our sin and confidence was Gods way of gifting us with a new hope of things to wonderful for us. Grace rewards us in spite of our failure. Grace proves that He is working in us beyond our own sin and weakness.

 This is why we believe there is nothing that is produced in us that does not come from His hand. God works in us according to His promise to defend Himself. lol. Our problem is we do not believe we have the ability through this divine initiative to examine us to be who we are by our new identity. God must work humility in us by decreeing sin so that we will learn that grace is far greater than human ability. When we are free in the Spirit we find that our weakness and sin work in us a far greater purpose than our trying to cover for God. lol. We find a sense of freedom out of this hope in things unseen as the mystery that we live in as we are looking for the grace that we will receive when we get to heaven. God is empowering with this divine power and confidence to focus on things above and not the things of this earth. 
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2078  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: October 04, 2011, 08:42:31 AM
Gods rule of the universe is proved by His being God through all generations. God does not change is contrasted with time sequence through generations. The fathers are the righteous in a generation. This is what we call reformation theology. We are always reforming to those things the fathers have said from the beginning. They have proclaimed the glory of God and His right to rule over His people unto all eternity.

God rules over this earth because He determines the success or failure of whole generations. He as contrasted His personal concern for His covenant people with the nations. He has proven this by working through His covenant people to destroy whole nations. In destroying whole nations God has determined the quality and life span of whole generations. God shows that He will not be mocked by bringing judgement from one generation to another. He proves that He is faithful since He has endured through all generations as proof that He will protect His covenant people through the present generation. We must look beyond our present world and circumstance and view God as He has been from the beginning of time who has been the same God as one generation has passed and another generation is come.

God shows that He brings one generation down and raises up another generation. He does this by judging whole generations with the sins that plague that generation. God is all glorious. His glory sustains the universe. It shines out unto all eternity. Just as the beauty of Gods glory shines out so His power to enact His judgements over generations is eternal. Gods glory shines down and men are confounded in their sins. The light of the glory of God blinds the minds of men so that whole generations are confounded. God proves that He is faithful by showing Himself all glorious in His power to protect His covenant people from generation to generation.

Have you seen the light of the glory of God? His covenant people are ruled by Him placing His feet on the earth as a footstool. He leaves His sandals in His church. He rules over His church through out all generations protecting them from the the specific evils from these generational sins. We are given a supernatural communication from Heaven coming down to earth so that that glory that shines out unto all ages and through out all eternity will shine in our face and this great and awesome light in the face of Jesus Christ empowers us to persevere through the judgements of the present generation. This glory connects us to the eternal view of God as He sees all generations as present. He proves Himself faithful by shining in our faces the light of His glory as the timeless experience that God rules in the present as He has ruled in past generations. We are changed from one glory to another.    
 
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2079  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 04, 2011, 08:16:06 AM
thor:  "Kk,
You think the future already exists and all we have to do invent a time machine to forward into the future?  And because the future exists somehow G-d can stand outside of the time continuum and observe the past present and future, like a scroll?"

K_k:  God is the Creator of time and is not bound by it in any way.  He is able to see all parts of time equally and simultaneously.  Not like a scroll but more like an infinity of "nows".  When , we say He is "all-knowing" we don't mean that He can only see the past and the present, but that He views all time while being able to interact with specific parts of it.  He is both outside time and within it, without being constrained by it.  Part of being God....

So the point is, He can declare in advance that a Savior will be needed and prepare the perfect Lamb before the foundation of the earth, Scripture says.  And He knows the Ending from before the Beginning.  To Him time is not linear but multidimensional and foreknown.  Including all our choices throughout our lives, and thus He can choose those who are going to become willing to turn to Him for Life, without being forced or coerced.

Do you have a problem with God's being able to foreknow those who will become His, and predestines them to be "in Christ" since they will one day come to ask for / receive the Savior?  Doesn't that fit the Biblical verses on foreknowing and predestining and yet also provide free will?


I do not think we can be confident that Gods future promises to us only come by our being willing. But His promises are yea and amen because He not only knows intimately the future but He orders each molecule to work out for our good. This is our confidence that if we ask anything in His name .. He hears us.. or He orders them according to His promise that is not a wish out of our willingness that it be so but it actually is apprehend to us by faith as if it was already a reality. We can view future promises to us passing before our eyes in our present view as if it has already happened.
This is why our past goes back beyond our birth. We view our purpose on this earth as God has told us. If we were not present when we were decreed to be born unto our ultimate end then we can be confident that this life does not depend upon us as if confidence depended upon our decisions. But in our past is in His counsel from all eternity. And in this sense we were chosen from our birth even tho we had not yet received our salvation. I mean we were protected as if we were His even tho we were still in our sins. So we believe fundamentally that we know God from eternity past as proof that our lives are supernatural because our salvation is in God who has always existed. That relationship to our Father is communicated to us in His view that He does not remember the sins our our youth since He order our lives from eternity.   
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2080  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: October 04, 2011, 07:31:56 AM
Anger that is festering in our souls is like a deep wound. Anger is the partner of sorrow. Anger turned inward is a self inflicted abuse to our all of our faculties. It is like putting a tent of anxiety over the free exercise of our faculties.  The expression of anger is to be controlled by someone else or an event. Anger can maim the christian for life. It is the highway to uncontrollable threats and accusations that are driven deep into the recesses of the inner man.

 We must weed our whatever controls us. Anger is at the bottom of what ever sorrows overtake our souls. This is why God has provided us with an inner conversion that unlocks this anger by showing us how to roll the anger over to Him. We want to be positive but the anger has such negative emotions that we find it infects all that we believe and talk about in displaying the love of God. When anger is controlling us even our wish that Gods love would be made real is a wish out of the pain of the anger in our sorrowful condition.

We must not try to be divine. We are fundamentally human. We express the negative just as passionate as the positive. Because temptation is not an intellectual battle but its a fight of force with anger as the passion out of our wish to be strong. Our fundamental weakness is what makes us so venerable to anger. We must learn how to unburden our anger before the Lord as the passionate plea of pleading the promises. We must have daily unburdening of our anger as a new conversion so that we find it replaced with the love of God. When we get real before God then we will experience freedom in community.

Anger and physical pain are interrelated. Anger slows down the healing process of the soul and the body. We find that the gospel is not just about wishing to be redeemed but its finding a level of rejoicing in God speaking salvation to our souls. We learn to replace anger when we experience the heights of joy. This is why the bible has effects that lead us up above our circumstances.  We are as it were cheered upon as we claim the promises. We find greater confidence in experiencing our whole soul and body receiving the spiritual effects of this transference of anger to love. This is what the Psalmist says about worshiping God with all of our might. We go from a weak experience to feel the power of God welling up with in us so that we live in a cheerful disposition. The more we plead the promises the more we experience the heights of Gods love for us. Even our negative expression before God become a source of experiencing the power of rising up to God. This is the smoke that comes from the angels hand along with our prayers. The angel takes these prayers and gets fire from the alter as the curse from our Father to enact our own protection. May our worship rise up to God.        
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2081  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Psalms study... on: October 02, 2011, 04:06:06 PM
Ps 34
The Psalm of David he changed his behavior before Ambimalech who drove him away and he departed. 

Mizmor... Psalm for meditation.
when.. 1 Sam. 21 10-22
This is an acrostic Psalm Here the acrostic is designedly incomplete, a proof of its genuineness instead of its corruption. No writer could omit a letter from carelessness. The letter van V is omitted and the letter pe..P is duplicated in the word redeem. The last verse is thus to stand out prominently by itself.
the Lord... Jehovah
humble... patient oppressed
heard... answered
delivered... rescue
looked... some codices... imperative... look
looked... looked expectantly... to this end Jehovah keeps us in salutary suspense.
They looked unto Him... that is why they were radiant.To look within is to be miserable.. to look around is to be distracted.
troubles.. .distresses
the Angel of the Lord.... here in mery.. .35 in judgement. ... nt .. delivering Peter and smiting Herod.
encampeth... hence the name Mahanaim...two camps in Jacobs vision, afterward to be noted in Davids history. 2 sam 17 24 27
fear... revere
taste... referred to in 1 pet. 2 2
blessed.. how happy
man... strong man....Trusting not in his own strength but in Jehovah ... mighty men... in respect to physical strength...as Enosh.. does in respect of the depravity of his nature. It is rendered man...mighty...man-child...every one
trusteth in ... flee for refuge in....take shelter in...
children .. sons...
What.. reference ....1 pet 3 10 -12
man... a man in contrast with a woman...a great man in contrast with an ordinary man... low are called children of Adam.. high are called children of ish.man of God or man of understanding.
life... metonomy ...of adjunct... put for all that makes life worth living.
keep ... apostrophe... when the speaker turns away from the auditory whom he is addressing to speak to another who may be God, men, animals, inanimate things.
ears, face... anthropomorphism....condescending
cry.. have cried....
heareth.. have heard
delivereth.. hath rescued.
spirit... invisible parts..
the righteous  a righteous one cp him next clause
bones...of the members of Christ body
the wicked ..a lawless one
desolate.. .held guilty...
redeemeth..delivereth by power heb.. nephesh... soul...
 
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2082  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: October 02, 2011, 03:20:14 PM
Divine revelation gives us the ability to seek God so that we experience joy unspeakable and full of glory. This joy is like the ocean waves. It wells us in us and then washes over us. It is a divine joy. Its not a happiness over receiving something that we want but its in response that has grown in us as we have experience the heights of joy in our meditation.

Joy is a by product of experiencing satisfaction in God. When we go to the word of God and we meditate on it the joy is what we receive by being fed to the point where we enjoy the effects of satisfaction. Just like we eat a nice dinner and we sit down after we have lost that hunger then we enjoy that rest. Joy comes in this experience of the illumination of His word. We feast at His table by receiving the effects of His promises to us. Joy is not only what we receive after we have meditated but its the accumulation of all of the feast that we have experienced. Its a result of all of these illuminations of His word so that we begin to find spiritual pleasure from thinking.

 Our minds are a gift to us to experience joy unspeakable and full of glory. The scripture is the only source of getting lost in wonder and praise. This is why we have the Revelation of John...its a description of heaven and the wonders that we will enjoy in the future. This description is all that we were made to long for. It saves us from ourselves to follow after the sorrows of this world. The Revelation describes layers of spiritual illumination that has a transportation quality in the illumination. We find instant connection when the name of Christ is mentioned. We are made to feel completed in our joy as we experience of being lost in this world and experiencing the pictures that are completely different than other parts of Gods revelation. We are given a power of the other world that creates in us a sense of sorrow in this world. This is mixed with our many times we have experienced being fed on the word and it connects us to a world that is beyond our own imaginations. This joy from the future illumination is much more confident and is mixed with a hope that is founded upon illuminations that are almost imaginative. Its a joy out of a sanctified imagination. So that we find a kind of illumination mixed with mystery and yet has these visions that are more beautiful, more transcendent, giving us a sense of resting in the final determinations of God and finding a joy that is mixed with heavenly fear. We find in divine contemplation a world in our own minds that far outweighs all of the experiences in this world.     
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2083  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 02, 2011, 02:42:32 PM
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Your saying that our will is impersonal and it determines our knowledge of repentance and of freedom. What we are saying is that freedom only exist where prior knowledge is acted upon. In other words there is no such thing that exist without necessity. A prior desire from an understanding of Christ is taking it from the realm of the impersonal ... a will without necessity and giving the will freedom to do what that condition of the soul is.


I have no idea what you said? is that a Psychedelic thought loop?

Determinism is the general philosophical thesis that states that for everything that happens there are conditions such that, given them, nothing else could happen.

Quantum mechanics poses a serious challenge to this view

Determinism is the oposite of free will. Predistination as defined by RT as a type of determinism.
G-d causes all things to happen a certain predetermined way without chance or variance.

Determinism should not be confused with self-determination of human actions by reasons, motives, and desires.

Determinism and moral responsibility are in no way related. If humans are determined by “atomic” events, then they are surely not free. If they are not free, then there is no amount of moral responsibility present.

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your teaching Libertarian determinism

Libertarianism holds onto a concept of free will that requires the agent to be able to take more than one possible course of action under a given set of circumstances. Predistination gives only one possible course of action and is totaly deterministic.

Thor Wink

I need 1.21 gigawatts?
Time circuits on. Flux Capacitor... fluxxing.

Thor any person who knows anything about philosophy knows exactly what i mean. I m not giving you anything new. You have a comprehension problem.

 I am saying that your philosophy reduces life to one principle. The quality of our lives is determined by the next choice. That makes us in your view responsible. There is not hope of salvation unless we do something to show that we want it. There is no hope of repentance unless we stop doing something that is wrong. You reduce everything to human determinism that ends in our getting what we deserve. 
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2084  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 01, 2011, 11:29:09 AM
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K_k: God foreknows all the choices we will make our entire lives, and He "pre-destines", destines in advance, that those who will become willing to ask for / receive Christ as the Savior He is, will be given His unending Life. So both free will and predestination are true, and both are because He allows us choices over our individual eternal destinations, although He knows them in advance.

Kk,
You think the future already exists and all we have to do invent a time machine to forward into the future?  And because the future exists somehow G-d can stand outside of the time continuum and observe the past present and future, like a scroll?  What science books tell us there are time continuums? Where in the Bible does G-d say the future already exists?  There are movies that have time travel but they are fantasy stories not reality! The Bible does not present reality in this way.

The Bible never says the future already exists and G-d sees it!  That’s science fiction. That’s modern fantasy thinking superimposed on Scripture.
Foreknow means to know before some point in time.  My friends foreknew me before I was married.  G-d foreknew Israel before Christ came (because He called out Abraham and made promises) and Christ died for them and predestined them to be like Christ when they believed.

The foreknowing and predestining is about Israel not individuals.  G-d knows many will believe when they hear the Gospel but doesn’t pick who will be saved and does not “see” into the future just the check out who chooses Christ so He can pre-pick them. That doesn’t even make any sense. It a crazy nonsensical loop! G-d doesn’t have to do any of those things because He made man in such a way that man can respond to the Gospel. It’s going to happen and G-d takes an active hand in the process.

G-d foretells the future because He is telling us what He is going to do, G-d makes it happen that is how He knows what will happen. No one can stop Him.

Everyone has a certain amount of faith, but trusting, placing your faith in Christ is a decision or act of the will. That’s why some will say Lord, Lord…they believe that Jesus is the Messiah but they just do not want to put their trust in Him.  Many Jews believed that Jesus was the messiah but were afraid to declare and put their faith in Him.

Thor Wink

Doc: (Marty) Don't worry. As long as you hit that wire with the connecting hook at precisely 88mph the instant the lightning strikes the tower... everything will be fine.
 

Thor your the one teaching determinism of the will. Your saying that our will is impersonal and it determines our knowledge of repentance and of freedom. What we are saying is that freedom only exist where prior knowledge is acted upon. In other words there is no such thing that exist without necessity. A prior desire from an understanding of Christ is taking it from the realm of the impersonal ... a will without necessity and giving the will freedom to do what that condition of the soul is. lol. We are teaching true freedom .. .your teaching Libertarian determinism.  
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2085  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Lordship salvation on: October 01, 2011, 11:11:07 AM
We who have a new will have been freed from our old will. We go from having fleeting desires to having our desires fulfilled. We are taught in scripture that we can desire to reality. We do not try to bring our desires into agreement with His desires but we are made to desire what He desires. lol. Its called being renewed by Spirit and word. So this is not a struggle like a war between two enemies for control but this is a process of sanctification in which we focus in the gospel and our desires become His desires. Our desires are to put all of our confidence in God.
How do we get from a lack of faith to an assurance that we are saved? We cannot produce this in our own power. So we must recon it to be so. The gospel is not something that is finished by us. Its a message that we trust in that is in itself the power to experience greater power. Because the work in the gospel was already completed at the cross. The gospel is complete in God alone. When we understand that the power of the gospel is not from us but only from Christ through the Spirit then we lift God up and we lower our selves. When we lower ourselves we come to understand the we are unable to achieve any thing in this life without doing it in the Name of the Lord.

That little phrase the Name of The LORD is our understanding that the cause of our own ability is in the Lord. We come in the name of the Lord. Or we proceed in the name of the Lord. So this means that when we look to ourselves we begin to retreat but when we look to the name and authority that is in the Lord we experience the power of the Lord. What does this experience look like? It gives us confidence that our desires are sanctified by word and Spirit as if we have come to understand what our purpose is in this life as our desires are fully engaged in the truth. So we desire what He desires.

 This teaches us that no one else.. no thing on this earth can fulfill the need to know what our purpose is. We do not need to look out there, but we need to hear the voice of our great Shepherd.  

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