Saturday, November 7, 2015

2086  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Relationships: What do women want in a good man? on: October 01, 2011, 10:46:43 AM
Relationships start with a common experience. The amount of injury both physically and emotionally is the level that people naturally are attracted to. So i believe there is a starting point and then a general direction. In the biblical view God is the one who determines how the person is going to view themselves because God destroys the old will and creates a new man. If a person does not have the ability to submit their will to God then there everything in their environment will determine what is important enough to them as to how they treat one another. So if God is not on the throne so to speak then something else is in between their willingness to connect because they will always place whatever they value before God and they will never display true love for God and thus cannot possibly endure as God has made us to endure. That something will define their level of commitment. No man can in himself experience true connection without salvation.

 When we have found God we have found ourselves. In finding ourselves we are able to be who we are without the need for someone else to define that . If someone else defines who we are then they are between us and God. We are restless until we find all of our confidence in God. The reason is that the truth is only in God so no matter whether we believe it or not it gives us a perspective that is true. The truth even if its not in our possession will set us free. Even an unsaved person who rejects the truth but when confronted with the truth knows its true. lol. But they refuse it anyway.
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2087  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: October 01, 2011, 10:29:35 AM
Saying that something cannot be both true and not true at the same time when dealing with the same context is what you are arguing in this post. No matter what religious ideas you use...like your saying that the blue shirt you are wearing is red because God says it is ... is a contradiction in your own mind.  lol Reality is what God decreed.
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2088  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: September 29, 2011, 04:32:42 PM
Quote
MBG: It seems to me that this Revelation is not a number of revelations but its one revelation of God as an Apoplectic God.

You didn't really mean to use the word apoplectic did you?

"Definition of apoplectic
1: of, relating to, or causing stroke
2: affected with, inclined to, or showing symptoms of stroke
3: of a kind to cause or apparently cause stroke"

Merriam-Webster

Thanks LAR... too many big words .. lol
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2089  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: September 29, 2011, 03:57:40 PM
I keep coming back to this timeless focus in this Revelation. It seems to me that this Revelation is not a number of revelations but its one revelation of God as an Apocalyptic God. Its like taking a paint brush and in each chapter adding a new part of the picture to the painting. There is a kind of overlapping moral lapse from one generation to another that ends in the last generation proving that Christ alone must rule because through world leaders comes the ultimate disorder on the earth. It gets worse and worse until Christ comes to judge the earth and bring in the eternal kingdom. Even the judgements on the earth are in a sense produced by the inability of earthly rulers to rule over a stable world that keeps the planet from becoming more and more polluted and an enemy to the health of the final generation. Weve got to start with God as He establishes the earth through not only His ability to uphold it in a physical sense but in His decrees to bring to an end the evils that are brought about by this top to bottom disorder in rulers.

The ultimate end of God ruling from the heavens is to bring an end to earthly kingdoms and save His poor ones ... or His elect. Christ who came in human form ascended up to the heavens as the only Man who completed the work to have all things put under His feet. He does not need to be present now in Human form. But He is the Lamb of God who is already seated on His throne and who will not descend but bring every one to His judgement. lol... not the other way around as we seem to dream about in this country.
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2090  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Lordship salvation on: September 29, 2011, 03:37:27 PM
My brother Thor, I think you left out a very important part of Paul's admonition to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling. . . . " It goes on to say "for it is God which works in you "both" to will and to do of His good pleasure. " Jesus said apart from me you can do nothing! My admonition here to you is think not that any obedience you posses is of yourself.  It is He who gives you the will and the power to accomplish anything in His name.  You have stated on several occasions that the Lord will say to many who "think" they belong to Him. . .  "depart from me you who work iniquity, for I never knew you. " Tell me Thor, how do you know you are not one of those who will receive that fearful declaration from the Lord? Is it because of your standing in Him due to your obedience, or your works? If yes, that reply sounds altogether too familiar to the one given by those who will receive His rebuke.  Are you really content with your obedience? I don't think you are saying you have arrived but I wonder what you use as your standard? If Jesus said, and He did, "If you love me keep my commandments, I guess He meant keep them! Do you? All of them? Always? Jesus is the only one I know who could make the statement, "I do always those things that please the Father. " Perhaps you think within yourself, I am not perfect but I "try" to keep them.  Well, I was not aware that God graded on a curve! If He demands obedience for salvation to be completed in you; you my brother had better tighten up the reigns.  If you chose to carry the weight of your salvation on the shoulders of your good works, have at it! And when you are tired, worn out and can go no farther, look up into His most gracious and loving eyes and say Lord, I give up! This load is too much for me to carry, and He will tell you, I know, that is why I already carried it for you! I love you brother but its seems to me you are carrying a weight no child of His was intended to carry.  His peace be upon you and to all who cry out for His amazing grace.  Merks

I agree Merks we can do nothing to save ourselves. We must depend entirely upon our Lord. But at the same time the gospel is the medicine. Presenting the gospel will fulfill all the needs especially the problem with doubt. This is why the message of the gospel is not primarily a presentation but it proves its success in the life giving determination to produce new life. We call this salvation a hope unto a new hope. The success of the gospel in not in our own repentance but its a dependence based upon our inability to obtain through any human means. Although its demands are that we repent its not turning from our sin but its turning to Christ from our sin. So its always turning from our sins through the gospel. The cause of our repentance is the grace that we stand in. As i write this i am writing the application of the gospel.

A lot of people do not like to think they are completely unable to please God in themselves. They would rather think its God and them. Like the apostle says.. work out your own salvation. But if we just focus on the one side of this equation and ignore that its God who works in us to will and to do then we will look at the first side as our facing the demands in ourselves. But actually this is the same argument as the ot refuge paradigm. We do not receive salvation that we are representative of. But we receive the salvation that is in the Name of the Lord. This is an interesting way of thinking which is not necessarily natural for us because we do not think correctly and that is where most of our doubts creep in. But we never talk about salvation as our being confident in our doing our part. I do not see this any where in scripture.

This is why its so easy for us to stray because our salvation is caused by our trusting in the faithfulness and ability of another. When we struggle with doubt we tend to react instead of trust because we are in a sorrowful condition. We want to be told how to end the doubt. What we should do to stop doubting. But this is impossible for us because the gospel itself tells us that we can do nothing to please Him. lol

What can we do? Well Jesus says this is the work that you believe in the One who sent Me. Jesus is not trying to teach us to add something to our faith to do but Hes trying to say that if we believe and focus on the gospel then the by product of that is an addition to our faith.

Let me talk to those who are doubting. First if there is a cause to doubt then there is a desire to depend upon God but our lack of faith overcomes our confidence. So our tendency is to start believing that we must apply the gospel to fight against our doubts. But the gospel is not just a defense but its a medicine for the whole man. When we approach God we must not waver from knowing our lack of ability and His promise to uphold His name on our behalf. The Psalmist tells God ..." I will never be shaken"!! What is the motive for the Psalmist to declare this? Because the Psalmist knows that if he wavers on Gods covenant promises then no matter how he feels it will take away all of his hope and desire to apply the gospel. When i come on here and I defend grace its a kind of balm to my own soul.

The reason the Psalmist says that he will never be shaken is because over his life he began to follow the Shepherd not just through the Shepherds promises. But the Psalmist had applied these promises to himself to the point where the Psalmist developed this close relationship to Christ not as a God of salvation but in a personal sense. Its just like our earthly relationships. We value these relations through our experiencing love and connection. We can actually separate God from our horizontal relationships as if God was the only person we loved beyond what love is. The Psalmist was so good at applying the gospel that He addressed God in the most personal terms as if God was His closest friend.

Now then when we learn to speak to God in the most personal terms then when we find ourselves in a life threatening situation these personal words that God teaches us through how other saints have addressed Him will over ride our doubts as we look death in the face. If we only know God as the one who is making us moral then it will be difficult to face death because we will be used to looking at ourselves and then to God. But if through Gods faithfulness we experience this love that cannot separate us from Him then we will be loved as the cause of our addressing Him as our most cherished relationship. Then there is nothing that can separate us from having this deep fellowship in times of trouble. Come away to Him and let Him love you. Take His word and let His promises soak over your pain. Let Him apply the balm to your soul through speaking to you through His word. He promises to be faithful.  

 
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2091  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: September 27, 2011, 08:48:50 AM
Thor and MBG:

  Why can't it be both? I do not think it is improbable or unrealistic.

It's impossible and contradictory to G-d's nature, His Word and history.

 Anyway if you hold the predestined view then it doesn't matter what you believe because whatever G-d predestined will happen no matter what you believe about free will or predestination. So arguing your point of view is not even necessary. What's going to be will be. Let others believe what they want about G-d...so what!

On the other hand if free will is the gift of G-d to man to use for accepting of rejecting Christ and G-d's Word then what you believe does count because it determines how you live your life and how you talk and influence others eternally.

The first one gives G-d a Robo-Saint filled with angst about not loving G-d enough.
The second one gives G-d a grateful Saint who loves G-d freely from their heart.

Thor Wink


We first need a vision of the greatness and majesty of God. Without knowing God we would not know the value of anything of reality. If we have available anything outside of the will and determination of God then God would not be the most worthy object of our worship. Experiencing freedom in reality is seeing God. In our natural minds we are left to experience a terrible tension. Our natural enjoyment of reality is filled with the tension of anxiety. Man is forever restless until he finds all of his happiness in God. The transcend-ency of God must break into our finite experience. God must shine into our hearts the light of the glory of God. We must long for and seek to see the light of the glory shine in our face. This vision of the majesty and greatness of God who rules from His throne throughout all eternity!
This universe is real only when we have touched the unseen. Only when we have a sense of these invisible parts. We are made to fellowship through the invisible power of Gods creatures as we see God lifted up beyond this earth to be seated on His throne. God who dwells in in approachable light fills the universe with the light of His glory. This great vision of the transcendence of God dwells in us as we experience this resurrection power. This dynamite power consumes us at times. Its being conscious of the omni presence of God who moves in us through His Spirit to think on things that are not of this world. We are made to experience being raised to the heaven-lies. When Gods Spirit baptizes us with a sense of wonder and majesty we experience this pleasure of the Spirit as He comes down upon us. Our only response is to fall down on our faces before this light of the glory of God because its too powerful for us to gaze upon. We are made to long for Christ alone. The living God. The power comes upon like the waves of the ocean crashing up against the shores. We wait upon God knowing that He alone will come. We know when He comes all is made right. God overpowers us with the experience of deep affection. We fellowship with our Father who gives us power through an acceptance as the free Spirit who draws us to deeper desires to seek God for God.      
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2092  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Lordship salvation on: September 27, 2011, 08:17:23 AM
When the apostle refers to his Damascus experience it is always in the context of Christ laying hold of him and not him seeking Christ. In fact Paul was farthest from seeking Christ on the way Jerusalem to carry out his desire to destroy the church. Paul uses the same parallel to his experience when he teaches that Christ is the rock and those who reject Him will be crushed by the Rock. This is a teaching that Christ has the power to judge men. Christ as the Rock is His will crushing mans will. All men will stand in relation to this Rock. The Rock crushed Pauls old will destroying it forever. But some men will be crush by this Rock. We as believers do not get dashed by the Rock. We already had the resurrection power applied to us and now like Paul we have seen the light of the glory of God so that we are transformed from glory to glory. This light of the glory of God is coming in upon us. We are experiencing resurrection power which is a sense of the wonder and majesty of God.
We are fellow-shipping with Christ through His Spirit. The Spirit is our guide and defender. He is God who determines our future path. The Spirit teaches us by showing to us the things of Christ. He comes as the fire from heaven that illuminates our minds to see the future goodness of Christ work on our behalf. Christ was not only our substitute as our redeemer but in saving us from our sins Christ continues to bring us to perfection through ongoing salvation in this world. He has seven spirits as the vision of the apocalypse to carry a reordering of the universe as that by which we will receive our full salvation. We obtain this reality through word and Spirit as we offer up strong cries and tears. This world is a wilderness for us but will one day be in our possession. We have confidence because the Spirit illumines us to see and experience rest in the finished work of Christ on our behalf.
We have in our possession eternal life. This life starts when we are born again. Along with a new will we receive all of the riches of Christ. In receiving a new will we are given new spiritual senses to be able to know the reality of the greatness of all of these gifts. We have in our possession the power of God through the Spirit. This power works mighty in us to will and do according to His good pleasure. In other words all of the riches in Christ are promised to us as available to us so that we might experience this supernatural enjoyment of God. This is a transcendent enjoyment that comes upon us as the Spirit baptizes us with many new conversions of this vision of the glory of God.
We can experience this power that comes upon us as filling us with a sense of the majesty and glory of Christ. It comes upon us and subdues our flesh. Even tho we have been given all of the promises and they are yea and amen, yet through being transformed by the renewing of our minds we actually are drawn to this glory in the pleasure that we receive from word and Spirit as we enjoy this light through our minds. We have available to us the created empowerment in being gifted with a new mind. When we are filled with this power we are made to focus on Christ so that we are lost in wonder and praise.Our enjoyment of God is the Spirit baptizing us with pleasure through this mystery of the greatness of our looking on the things of Christ. This power comes upon us and there is a sense of complete transparency before God. We see Christ who is the image of God. He is the image of the invisible God. If we have seen Christ then we have seen the Father. Christ leads us to our Father where by we cry Abba Father. Our enjoyment of God is being overcome with a sense of His love. This love that will not let us go!         
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2093  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: September 24, 2011, 12:37:58 PM
  Kk It is both.
  Yep  Why can't it be both?

 Kk  "Thus, free will is true and predestination is true simultaneously"
 Yep  "They freely follow."

Guys seriously... this is about as logical as i said the above statement but i did not say it. It really sounds good and its very kind of you guys to disagree and yet say you are on the same page. help!! I am from the 70s generation but seriously i did not do the mushrooms .. lol...
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2094  Forums / Break Room / Re: Dealing with Porn. on: September 23, 2011, 02:28:15 PM
Dealing with the lust of sex is a life time struggle. God made us with a desire to procreate. We must find our rest in God about this and not in how we can avoid lusting. The bible never encourages us to circular thinking. Like we lust feel guilty confess and lust feel guilty confess. lol. But we are to look away from ourselves and unto God. There is no cure for lust... we only have an ability to bring it into a small problem compared to all the other things we think about. We have this ability to bring it under control.
The apostle says the he died to sin and was raised with Christ. Then he goes on to say not to let sin reign over him. But then he says that we are still corrupted in every part even tho we are dead to the sin we just fell into. He says this tension is communicated in this way. I find that what i want to do i do not do, what i do not want to do that i do... it is no longer i but sin that dwells in me. I find that when i want to do good sin is rite there with me. Thank God through Christ Jesus that i am experience true freedom. There is now no condemnation to me because I am in Christ Jesus.
Notice he did not say thank God i confessed and i am free. No He gave the glory to God through Christ and acknowledged what he already was. He did not dwell in the process of forgiveness but the apostle replaced the thinking that sin brings with correct thinking. In other words we do not accept that we are defined by our sin. We are able to fall and move on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now think of this.. the apostle says what i do not want to do that i do continuously. He experiences falling and getting up. So he is saying that every time he sins he gets up and acts as tho this was not who he is. He does not live in guilt because he died to sin. lol. He forgets about accusations because he is already in the state of no condemnation. Now listen.. the apostle is not comparing the sin nature with being in no condemnation but hes comparing the actual sin he does to not being in condemnation. In other words we are talking about apples and oranges in comparison to one sin and the state we live in.
The point here is how the apostle views himself rather than the process of guilt and sorrow he endures. He is saying that we can have a greater sin by not agreeing with how God has told us we are even when we sin. We can practice unbelief by getting back on the tread mill. lol.  
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2095  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: September 23, 2011, 01:30:40 PM
We are at war in relationship to our own mortality. I do not think the enemy is just the evil spirit but its our own lust as we extend ourselves in this life. Its our tendency to trust in our own strength that begins to tempt us to wear ourselves out and be short sighted as to the dangers that are mortal dangers. This is the fundamental problem when men dwell in peace that the bible addresses as in our struggle with the life temptation. We must learn that we are required to do something that He gives us strength to do. But some people do not acknowledge that our opposition to the forces we are confronted with in this world is more than a matter of choice. ..or the next rite thing to do.
We are at war for our own mortality is a war against process theology. Process theology is an economic system that has as its fundamental principle a promise that if we do good we are rewarded with more fellowship with people. In other words good is defined by our success to endure the process with the promise of more acceptance. Acceptance is the end result of enduring the process. Just because a system is built on reward does not mean that its not dangerous. There is never a time when men can produce utopia through a system of balance. Because men themselves are cursed with the disease to prove they are excused from moral accountable that they see other men violate. So that this is an attempt to build a tower up to God for the purpose of profit alone. A system of process is to drive men to more excellence beyond their own morality. This is the present economical structure.
We do not realize that our own mortality is threaten not by will but by force. The devil comes to destroy. He the leader who looks moral. lol. What we need to understand is the fundamental threat to our own morality is a threat to the absolute sovereignty of God. This world is not a slow process of success but a sudden change of blessing or disaster. This is fundamentally a world where men gain independence from God by force. God must respond with sudden disaster.
But for the elect our prayers are focused on our worth as God gets the glory. Our temptations are centered in the amount and endurance of praise that we give to God in response to our present circumstances. In understanding how this is connected to our own lust and morality we find that we are not naturally given to resting. But God is our shield from our own propensity to over extend ourselves. How do we make our eyes small in this world and open in the spiritual dimension? We focus on the value of praising God as the reason for our long mortality. The most observed comparison is to be silenced to praise God on this earth by going to the grave. It really is the ultimate contradiction to our purpose. Because by word in Spirit we exist. The amount of praise we partake in shows that we view reality as supernatural. All events are God intervening on our behalf as gifts to us for His glory. In responding as it really is we see the value of living our lives in deep praise for Gods future gifts to us. We live in the pleasure of God as we see reality as it is in the supernatural.   
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2096  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: September 23, 2011, 12:04:46 PM
This dispensation theory changes the biblical literary structure from introversion to alternation. But God will bring to an end all things as He began. He will make good all of His purposes in one man alone! This is not a divided plan but all things are funneled into the Kingdom of Christ who must respond to all opposition in an apoplectic way as He has always responded. The line of the whole counsel gospel cannot be disconnected in how God has determined through all eternity in responding from heaven as an unchanging God. To place a barrier between earth and heaven through the doctrine of infusion allow the science of scripture to over ride the direct communications of a creator who has already planned out the working out of all things from before the foundation of the world. It is to redefine the means of grace downward.

This is why we must acknowledge that God alone rules the heavens and the earth and there is no authority who claim independent rule. I am wondering how God could destroy this present world that He has created as good. But in thinking of the truthfulness of living in this world as it is in the present state of disorder there must be a focus of it as working against the righteous as an enemy to our souls. Not just the order of evil powers in the heaven-lies but the earth itself has been cursed. Here is the connection to our prayers that directly effect the end of the earth as we know it.

We must not conclude that if God has made powers that are evil for the purpose of advancing His kingdom on this earth that these powers have unlimited authority as that by which God works out His purposes in our lives. This is a dispensational false hood. God has always been the author of opposition to all the powers of this earth that oppose His elect. This includes the groaning of a cursed earth that brings pain to His people.

We must understand that our communication to the throne of God involves this private war with the kingdoms of this earth as well as the elements of the earth that are opposed to our own purposes as God defines them. The created earth is a place where danger is present as if we were placed in the heat of a fire. It was made an opposition in the fall. God uses the earth and its process to bring about the death of whole generations. To conclude that evil only dwells in the relationship that man has to man is to be short sited as to how God bring about the disasters that men have no control about. Listen to me our anger may be mis directed because we see the beauty of Gods creation and in not having a direct response of the dangers of the cursed earth we do not see how God sees the earth in responding with judgement as a necessity to come to our aid and defense. God goes beyond the political process and balances out the mindset of democracy by using the evils of the earth in response to the schemes of men. This universe as God works these curses out is beyond the power of men to procure the peace necessary to be independent of God.  
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2097  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Lordship salvation on: September 23, 2011, 10:44:21 AM
Its interesting that there is a divine mandate to offer to God a reasonable sacrifice to determine to be transformed by the renewing of our minds , but to say this is like a libertarian free choice is to not acknowledge God in all things. We are required to acknowledge that it is not by might nor by power but by my strength says the Lord. The Psalmist in presenting his offering to God was aware that if God were to hold the Psalmist sin against him then the universal cry "who could stand?" rang from his lips to the day his lips were made cold.lol. It certainly was not a cry for the love for all men. lol

To say that our determination is the focus of our success is the same thing as saying that we share Gods glory in our success. But the apostle concluded that every thing He did was not in his own strength but was pre grace by Gods decree to present to the apostle the argument and experience of his own success. In being transformed we have a holistic experience of gospel power as if we were already completed in our righteousness. lol. Not an impersonal relationship with the Holy Spirit as if He were the one waiting for us to allow Him to only go as far in working as He foreknows our choices.lol This philosophy is actually a very impersonal attempt to explain this transformation as infused righteousness rather than imputation of righteousness. In other words we are not personal vessels of the fullness of the Godhead.  
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2098  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: September 22, 2011, 02:56:21 PM
Christ is our advocate who acts as our commander and high priest. He is worthy as the Lamb of God who has come to earth to take captive captivity. He has led a mighty throng with Him to worship Him for all eternity. They are before the throne of God speaking on our behalf who have not yet entered into our completed perfection. He bids us who are on earth to enter the war room as and speak with this commander ... He commands us to command Him to intervene on our behalf. Just outside the doors of this meeting room of prayer are the heavenly forces who are under the orders to obey the Lamb of God for the purpose of focusing on our needs as ministering spirits.
He suffered alone so that we might not need to suffer. But He has become our most personal advocate who is sitting on the throne with a pencil and paper ready to address our concerns and come to our aid as we describe our personal struggles and command Him to fulfill His covenant promises. Christ does not ask us to approach us as equals but He comes down to our level to hear us. We have a very special privilege as His children to offer up cries and petitions. He writes down the sorrow from every tear from our eyes and comes to our aid as we ask Him.
We come from a country far away and describe to Him our troubles. We ask for defense and victory.We pour out our troubles before Him. We address Him with deep distress and boldly demand that He come to our aid. He writes down our wants and bids us Gods peace and blessings as we retreat to the far country. He tells us to wait and He will be close behind. He tells us to wait in expectation because He is coming to our aid but its on a bigger scale and we do not have the ability to view all that He will do. Now listen to me...we enter a room in which the commander is not a local chief but He orders the events of all the world! He writes down our responses to His promises as if we were giving Him the strategy as we see it. lol. He does not rebuke us or look down on us but He uses these very small strategic prayers to bring about events that change the world!
There behind Him as He is seated are all the saints who have gone before us who have followed this Lamb up to the heavenly temple and fall on their faces and worship this Lamb day and nite. They are our cheer leaders who plead on our behalf for Him to bring about the end of suffering. They plead on the basis of their own suffering. We have a refuge on this earth that will one day be face to face.  
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2099  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: September 22, 2011, 01:55:34 PM
Kk has a glitch in his inner transmission. Hes trying to shift an automatic transmission like it was manual. But God has already provided the power and the movement in order for us to go forward. lol. In a sense when we try to achieve what God has promised that He alone will do its like trying to put the automatic transmission in reverse while it is moving forward. Why do we fight what God has told us plainly in scripture? Why do we carry around two car manuals ... one for automatic transmissions and one for manual transmissions so that when ever we have cause to give God all of the glory we retreat into a withdrawal and then create a contradiction by refusing to lay aside the manual transmission manual ignoring the obvious that we drive an automatic. Thats a lot of useless focus and hard headed wasted thinking. lol

God has decreed whatsoever comes to pass in our lives so that we will live in that reality. We have cause to ask because of the trials that God brings into our lives. We have cause to praise God because of the gifts He gives to us. The cause of our hearts being enlarged to a great God is out of the freedom that it was given to us directly from God... we dont need to pass go and collect our hundred dollars. The Psalmist ... in describing the inward reality of the christian simplified how we enjoy this communication from heaven by pointing us to the cause of all of our reality. It is gifted directly to us through an unmerited favor to show that God alone deserves all the praise. Simply put we were made to glorify God out of His work alone as the freedom we experience through Him gifting us with all things to enjoy as the cause of our glorifying Him by enjoying Him forever. He has taken care of our will. Now we have His will. Now we do not need to second guess our part of the willing. We acknowledge that we are weak and He is strong and in this we can be strengthen to not only enjoy Him in praising Him as the alone giver but we actually are drawn to worship Him with all of our physical might. This is the reality of true practical working on our part. lol   
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2100  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Lordship salvation on: September 22, 2011, 12:12:06 PM
See the problem is Reform theology. It's another Gospel.


See, the problem is pronouncements like this, especially coming from someone who could never refrain from making a strawman out of the thing he is criticizing. Thor, if you want to talk about "another gospel" you might want to start with your own analysis of parts of the NT. (Your treatment of the book of Galatians alone would leave any theologian -arminian or calvanist- scratching his or hear head). Reading implication into certain of Paul's pronouncements about the dangers of trying to justify oneself by the law and come to the wild conclusion that Paul is talking about Christians losing their salvation! (When ever sermon from every pastor I have ever heard - again, on both sides of the isle - agree that this was not a salvation issue!) This is a free forum and your are, of course, free to speak your mind. But just remember; calling something "another gospel" when it is clearly established doctrinally, is leaving your own point of view open for the same treatment.

Absolutely correct Tb...When we go through trials the enduring to the end of the trial is the real struggle. So that our sin is not the focus in the trial but its our general experience that we see no end and all of our weakness of faith and pain speak to us as being unable in ourselves to endure. We must remind God that there are forces out their just like in us that are too strong for us. The Psalmist does not just believe that free grace is available but he applies himself to free grace by being in the situation where he has no hope of enduring unless God applies the free grace to him as an assurance that he can endure. In other words we already stand in a relationship to our heavenly Father as if nothing could separate us from His gifts of love but that He wants to do more than we could ask or think in the free grace and free acceptance that we stand in. So we believe there are not only sins in us that are too strong for us but there are forces that actively seek to undermine our causes that are too strong for us.
In the Psalmist telling God his sorrows and reminding God of the adversity. The Psalmist is seeking to justify his helplessness as a great sinner who knows his propensity to fall into sin. I think under the rite mind set of how deep Gods love is there is an abandonment to His causes with an impersonal responsibility in our being weak and unable. So we see the greatness of Gods determinations to keep us in His love that speaks to us of the power of evil that is beyond our own ability to endure. And so here is Gods method of bringing us to be transparent before Him. Let me say that God endures us by extending to us the availability in casting our cares upon Him to be consumed with a sense of mystery as that by which we are buffeted on every side yet not destroyed.
Let me go on in dealing with our inability to overcome the adversity without a deep experience of the love of God to how we deal with our anger before Him knowing that all of these trials are very personal to us. We must not fight with weapons that are fleshly but we must fight by drawing the sword of the Spirit. Our schemes and works are like dead flesh for the vultures. lol. If we stand and argue based upon our position in this world we are going to driven to much anxiety. The point of the gospel is not primarily focused on how much pain we can endure but its fighting through for relief from the pain. Let me say this.. the danger is how the religious system is represented by the weight of the redeeming value over the negative discipline in connecting with one another. Our desires are that someone else must be dealt with like we would want to be dealt with. So we are dealing with leadership that is turned upside down in this world. The lowly are in a position to be used by God because they do not have the dangerous self motivated pride that will destroy their neighbors. This is why the church is made up of the poor and lowly.   
 
2101  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Lordship salvation on: September 22, 2011, 04:34:54 AM
Ryrie is dividing the gospel. Hes saying there is an free entrance but the giving ends when we walk into the (party and close the door.. my words).. first of all if the enjoyment of the free food is the end for which the invitation was accepted I doubt that cost of discipleship was a promise of pain and suffering in opposing opposition. It would seem to me if i was invited to a party that was offered to me for free that would encourage me to come but that would not be the substance of the relationship that i had to the promise. Upon entering and eating would be equal to the freedom that i was promised when i was invited.

The parallel passage that Ryrie uses is the one when Jesus was preparing to enter the part of His ministry where he was to be taken and tried. He turned to the multitudes who were following Him and stated the cost of following Him could be death. They could suffer the punishment of the Roman government if they continued on with Him. There were two responses. A and B . Neither a nor b involved a clear choice as Ryrie seem to be saying. But those who turned away were not interested in suffering with Christ but only wanted to follow Him for the gifts. But its interesting how the disciples responded. They did not say... Lord let us think about this for a day or two and consider the cost and we will chose one way or the other. lol
They were overwhelmed by the standard and realized they were unable to pay that price. But He did not reject their response. They had no were else to go. And if you look at the account they basically abandon Him when He was arrested. So their words .. we have no were else to go .. we will follow You ... actually they did the same thing as all the people who left Him. But their response of helplessness was distinguished from the self serving response of the crowds.

What i am drawing from this as a matter of application is that our words of commitment have no consistent ability to provide the basis of the trust that we can be depended upon. lol It was Christ who returned to them after the resurrection that reestablished the relationship with His disciples. This is the picture of the Shepherd who is always pursuing the sheep because they are always straying from the fold. His pursuit of us negates our lack of ability to endure. This is why salvation is completed in us as if it was already but not yet.   
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2102  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: September 21, 2011, 11:39:16 AM
This subject is terribly important to me and through Kk God has prepared me to write about it before i actually received the illuminations. I really believe in suffering. I really believe that suffering on this earth for our good gives us more rewards in heaven. I really believe that suffering for good produces in us this divine sense of mystery in which we are freed from ourselves. That part that pulls and tugs at us to be overly focused on the events of this world.

We are fighting a long term war not a short active self fulfilling dream. This mystery is that He will lead us down a path in which we give up this world for the other world. I do not think we really have a choice. Because we are led along by a new perspective that draws us into moving in a direction that has many misunderstandings. On the one hand we have no power where He has not given us that power. So we are walking on this path that only has success as He graces us with success. We cannot turn to the rite or the left.

This is why His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. Who would devise a plan where in order to advance we must decrease and He must increase as the promise that He will give us the power to move and the rewards for what we are only required to do. How can we have a real vision unless we are in this kind of constant misunderstanding and untrusting deli ma? Because we cannot escape the voice of our Shepherd. Its brought to us in our trying times as the promise of deliverance if we still our souls and listen to Him speak.If we hear that voice loud and clear. If we have expended all of our strength not only for Him but calling out to Him to speak a word of deliverance into our souls so that we are made to praise Him out of a heart of charity expanded by the communication of His love alone, then we dwell in the light of another way of explaining the experiences of our lives.

We are made to bask in losing all we have for His sake. Not that we want it to be the end of our experience but that we have in exchange His constant protection and His speaking to us loud and clear. We have the basis for our approaching His throne with loud cries and tears. My friends as we move into a more clear path of His prosperity we are made to shout our his praises and shout out our cries! Listen to me there is something prepared for us when we pass the sting of death that is beyond our ability to imagine. We must begin to measure everything in this life by this future reward to us. Its not easy because our reality is upside down to what it will be when we see Him.

Why do we dwell in our own sorrow and pity? Why do we know hope as a wish and not eternity in our hearts? Why do we turn back and retreat? Because this great mystery ... the gospel made known to us... has not freed us from ourselves. Surrender is what is happening to us as He is making us new. We have an example in Stephen as the apostle was standing there watching him die. The bible says His face shone like the face of an angel. It was a beautiful picture of the light of the glory of God ,,, the divine power that the apostle had so often described in his own visions....that this power was dwelling in Stephen. I imagine that Stephen saw this light that engulfed Him in pleasure that is unimaginable. God had already produced the reality of the other side as a glimpse of the great glory that we have not received yet.
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2103  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: September 21, 2011, 10:55:01 AM
Christ in us is His promise to shield us from going down to the pit. Not only does He determine our end but He promises to shield us in our times of trials. Every event is determined to be for our good and for His glory. Why do we lack the faith to endure through trials so that we lean fully on Christ? Because we lack the spiritual strength to experience the effects of Christ abiding protection. As Christ goes out before us as the only light to brighten our path so we must put ourselves before Him as He is the glory of God who shines in our hearts to cause us to be transformed in the paradigm of this inward communication of these spiritual properties. Christ is our shield who will surround us as the provider of the means to protect us from utterly falling.

The Psalmist provides us with the picture of Christ abiding presence that is with us through the Holy Spirit. Its our confidence that tho the whole world is against us yet He is greater than the world. This provides us with a confidence that nothing can separate us from His love. We believe as He lights our way and we experience His favor from Him shining in our face that His love is better then our own lives. At the most trying times we are encouraged to draw near to Him by our cry that into His hands we commit our spirit. He shares His life in us in making our invisible parts come alive as the reality that He is with us. How does He do this? By shining in our faces as we ponder His word and fellowship with His Spirit. The Spirit of supplication. The Spirit who gives us songs in the nite. The Spirit who counsels us in our private times. The Spirit who goes out to defend us when we suffer the pains of this world.

Our light is always a future deliverance. In longing for and looking for a future salvation we are being drawn out in faith to believe that the things unseen will be seen. So we experience this light as if we declare what He wants. Because Christ is a shield that surrounds us we experience being drawn out in faith to believe what He has promised as if it was already fulfilled. The pain of this earth is the weight that pulls us down from this vision. But Christ has designed our salvation as a future communication to us and not necessarily our personal wish that it would be. When we are regenerated we are not left to hope as the world hopes but we receive reality in this deep communication of these secret illuminations. We have these invisible parts that are acted upon in being drawn out in our faith. These realities are the future mystery of His invisible power that is beyond our own experience in which we are drawn out by. We call this the communication of His love. Or its hoping in His word.

His word is the divine promise that He will do according to His promises more than we could ask or think. His light that surrounds us and shines in our faces is in the fellowship of experiencing the renewal of our inward parts. Its being renewed in the spirit of our minds. We are being made new in our invisible parts. This experience does not eliminate the crossover from the inanimate parts to the physical parts but it produces in us a power that comes from our inner man as the proof that He is shining in our faces. We draw our confidence in His promises as we are made to experience His love that is beyond our understanding of our own personal powers.  
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2104  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: TT.UU.LL.II.PP.s still bloom on: September 20, 2011, 08:34:12 PM
The christian life is a life of personal assurance of all the past accomplishes of the Trinity to obtain salvation. We do not live in hope as if it was a future event. We do not live in divine wishes as if God took a break from His work of creation and sustaining that creation. We look to the hills because they remind us that God has decreed whatsoever comes to pass ...in looking up it connects us to the reality that nothing comes into our lives that has not been ordered by God. So we reason that our steps are ordered by God the maker of heaven and earth. This is a fact that we base our assurance on so that we cannot slip knowing that God works the good out of our bad and promises to defend us when we are afraid. This is not a wish or a promise that it will be accomplished but its a reality that is granted to us in order that we might not retreat into struggling with unbelief as if Gods wishes were not effective promises. We must move on into this assurance. Why would we remain in unbelief?
The cross is a work of Christ as the power of the resurrection to us as we are assured that this work is not a potential but a reality. We do not approach God on the basis of hoping that the cross will take away our sins as a potential. But we approach God in praise that the past event of the cross was finished for all time as the real power given to us and not piece mealed to us as a potential. If the work is completed then we stand on that event as the basis for all of our receiving the promises. But if it was a potential then we have no cause of real assurance. This is why the bible uses analogies of that work in words like atonement, substituted, made peace, obtained salvation etc. Because the cross actually finished the work of salvation for all time. We look to the cross and not to our own value in having the effects of the power of the resurrection granted to us. We provide the language of assurance in the event and not in our own faith.   
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2105  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Lordship salvation on: September 20, 2011, 08:11:25 PM
The issue of Lordship salvation is very much related to how close we come to the historical view of the doctrines of grace. If we fudge on some of the small issues then at some point we will change the focus of the message. Because each doctrine added to another doctrine gives us the holistic reality of salvation. I like to say that the creeds are not the scripture but if there is a disagreement with the creeds then we find there is a problem with the scriptural interpretation. The creeds act like warning post to the scripture.

There is a difference between pagan repentance and christian repentance. A pagan repents from sin... a christian has already been freed from sin so he confesses what the reality of his sin and weakness. The more we grow in grace the more sin will become that foreign object that is constantly making us weak and sometimes being ineffective. But salvation is going from a state of spiritual death to life. Its leaving the old life and looking to Christ alone. Its turning from all the things we trusted in and giving them to Christ.

 So a christian has died to sin and he therefore no longer is a slave to sin. I do not think that we quit serving sin because the apostle says that he does not do what he wants to do and the very thing he does not want to do that he does. So before we did the sins we wanted to do and we loved to do the sins. The apostle is not saying that when he sins he does not want to sin but that he has a mixture of giving into sin along with serving Christ. The point being that slavery to sin is a condition that one is blind to the fact that there is the presence of sin, blind to the depth of sin , and blind to the corruption that he lives in not only in the world but having his own mind, will, and emotion betray him. Its funny because this is so anti intuitive to what we think we understand about the christian way of thinking. We who are not slaves to sin acknowledge the difficulty of dealing with sin in a moment by moment facing ourselves. While those who are slaves to sin do not acknowledge the presence of personal sin. Or they do not see their condition as being without hope so they make up rules in order to excuse themselves from sin. And finally the anti intuitive part is that christians show their weaknesses because they have no hope since they see their sin as an offense to a holy God and only find peace when they see Christ as the redeemer. While the blind work really hard to appear righteous because they do not trust that Christ has taken care of their sins.

  Repentance is not focused on surrender as if it was something that is required for us to do in order to obtain grace. But true surrender is in the joy of repentance because it is always followed by a deep experience of the free act of God to gift us with His promises that comes to us out of His unfailing love. That unfailing love that replaces our own confidence to repent and surrender by our own power. We are only required in approaching God to appeal to Him on the basis of His unfailing love alone. This reality comes through an understanding that sin is only atoned for by a substitutionary work done on behalf of Gods people as the voice of the great Shepherd for the salvation of His people. This word is a word of salvation and it is the result of having a new heart where our desires are to please and serve Christ. Not only do we long for a future salvation in a personal sense , but we have the basis of that word of hope in the new desire to hope. So in a sense christian surrendering is being freed from the process of pagan repentance.    
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2106  Forums / Break Room / Re: Forgiveness on: September 20, 2011, 02:18:51 PM
Kk.. i try not to focus on what the personal responsible properties of the process brings to us .. this in my opinion is more of a speaking from arrogance without a full understanding of what has transpired in our transformation. I would rather focus on how we are transformed through something more wonderful than the process. Most people draw a link between the truth that we are in the potters hand and He is molding us... but in that context the apostle is talking about Gods right to determine that He is the potter in the act of saving us. Drawing a distinction between the completed change and one who is still in his sins.

Heres how the bible reasons. It reasons on our creative order as we know God and through that we know ourselves. So our value is determined by something that is far greater than we could conceive in our own wisdom. We are being drawn by a creative act through and through . This gives real sinners who have a great legacy in their time on earth to appear as inconsistent with that value. Some people think that the command part is completed in us on this earth... they fail to see their own inconsistencies in drawing parallels that do not exist between old covenant salvation and new based upon their view of dispensational grace. Sin is turned upside down in this world .Doctrinal sins are much worse than adultery. And i include myself in that.   So we must always be suspect to human systems and authorities. But the success that God brings to a man through supernaturalism makes the mans sins less obnoxious. So there may be a steady growth but God is focused on how He changes us.  
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2107  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Obey God no matter what!! on: September 20, 2011, 01:35:24 PM
Kk in regards to pleasure. The experience of pleasure is determined by kind of personal freedom the person has come to. Its not really in the thing itself but its the depth of understanding we have that keeps us from overly focusing on the sorrow that is mixed with the pleasure. Now dont get me wrong. But the pleasure of sin is better in a believer than an unbeliever. Why is this? Because a believer lives with the knowledge of his own weakness. That knowledge comes from his understanding of grace. A lot of people respond to me of what the apostle says if we live in grace should we continue in sin? He uses the phrase anathema.. may it never be...
But if you look at his earlier discussion of grace ..he teaches the irresistible part of it. Since there are buzz words that perk my interest in discussing biblical concepts i always am aware of how one concept is put forward because of ones doctrinal perspective. My own understanding of this is if the verse has a very high percentage of usage then i try to put that into perspective in applying it in the point of application by pointing out in this instance...excuse me..let me take a breath.. a little sore today.... that the apostle says that Gods grace has been fore ordained to accomplish the work and cannot fail in every instance of salvation. So the logical question would be Rom 3 5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just! See now they were accusing the apostle here of teaching cheap grace... lol...The apostle concludes that all men deserve wrath so theres no reason that any man deserves grace. All are under condemnation. After all ... isnt the fact that God has a rite to decide because all men stand condemned the argument for sovereign grace? In other words our only hope is that we stand in grace if we sin or we obey.
Now this is the way the bible as a way to encourage people to go on and grow in wisdom... is to have the presentation as if we were searching out the truths like we search for gold. So we find the gold in uncovering the truth in our approach of as not creating a contradiction. So the apostles talk here is the basis for the question shall we go on sinning that grace may increase? We are taught that salvation was always in the covenant motif... its focused on Gods rite to save and bring it to its ultimate end. So in this sense we stand in the sovereign grace of 3 in this we are always asking the question shall we go on sinning in order that grace may increase?... the answer is not in us but in the sovereign grace aspect of the Trinity. To prove that we are talking about the grace the apostle is talking about then we must at least draw the same response as in verse 3. I dont hear this much... always appealing to 6 .
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2108  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: For Our Mbg on: September 20, 2011, 01:01:08 PM
I am a walking miracle today... a little sore.. had one of those life threatening accidents yesterday... but came out of it with just muscle soreness. God is really good... really good.
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2109  Forums / Break Room / Re: Forgiveness on: September 20, 2011, 12:51:34 PM
Theres a tendency to saying things that are unwise. But we all have experience in sin. This world is filled with onlookers who rather than apply themselves to the biblical way of thinking are more able to point fingers and stir up personal anger. One of the things that i find is people deep down want to be honest but they do not understand how the adversity will increase as they become an open book to others. But at the same time if all of our sins were a matter of the public deciding the just way to speak about us then it would be an impossibility for us to live in this world. So we must learn another form of communication that decides how we are going to be effective in feeling accepted as a public open book.
We always are labeled in a variety of ways ...as many ways as there are people with opinions. lol I come on here to debate and to write what my illuminations. Its easy if your not versed in the biblical world to conclude that the writing is overly alarming ... or its too personal... or its to aggressive....but  the truth is non of us write something that someone has not gone through or thought about. Maybe except me.. lol...just kidding. But ive accepted the fact that its better for me to pass on these biblical ideas than to take them so personal that i claim the authorship. My hope is to affect one life for the gospel. So its as impersonal to me of what others think if i am writing scripture. But its personal to me if the message itself is abusive. Grace never fails in changing people.  
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2110  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Obey God no matter what!! on: September 20, 2011, 12:05:09 PM
Big... I do not think it has to do with finding a women. There is a lot of intangibles in this life. One of the problems we have in our christian life is to focus on our needs and how they are going to be met. It happens .. especially when we are dating. I dont believe that getting married is going to be fulfilling the way we think it is and especially in this area of the physical relationship. Whenever someone promises you an exact number.. or a revolutionary ability in the area of relationships that makes me nervous. In our day we are quite easily led by counsel as if it was going to provide for us a fail safe way to avoid the pit falls and the problems that will follow us all of our lives. After all finding a life partner and living with them through thick and thin is a major decision. Our fear is that if we find the wrong one then we will be forced into having a life of constant friction and constant anxiety. So we develop standards in order make a wise choice so that we will be successful.
This is where i find a lot of confusion. Its like taking an old car and putting some paint on it... changing the oil and calling it a new car. But the truth is when we pop the hood we find its the same old same old. Thats the trouble with us in this life. We always want to appear wise in our own eyes but when they pop the hood of our hearts there are all kinds of evils lurking. lol Jesus said that our biggest problem is not making a wise decision but its cleaning the outside of the cup while in the inside there are all kinds of adulteries fornication's etc. Let me say this... the truth is its not what we do but its who we are that makes this life and adventure. Our problem is not out there but its rite in our own hearts. We all are really messed up and we want other people to do a short makeover and poof we are now available to play the dating game.

 Now listen to me ... the way we form our own words determines how we are going to walk and what will be important to us. When ever i talk to someone who has done the work i always repeat what they are telling me back to them. What i find is they have these catch phrases that are wise in the worlds eyes but not biblical. This is where true wisdom is found. Its an intense search into the way people talk as what direction they are going in. This is so important because when ever men promise to open the doors of heaven with the wisdom they have acquired over the yrs then we focus on these words instead of comparing them to the word of God.

The word of God is the most individual, personal, self conversation that we will ever find on this earth. It directs us to the issues we cannot see. Those issues that are impossible for men to open up. The word is the only available instrument to open up creative abilities that each one of us have that are more attractive than reordering our personality. The word is the only defense we have against developing a standard that will be like a carrot on a stick that will create all kinds of inward conflict and wrong focus. The word gives us our own creative communication without all the buzz words in the application that we discover through illumination. It provides for us the only basis of pleasure that we will experience in this life. Without the word we are left to applications to us that are not completely correct, a way that will create a multi focus of incorporating change in our lives through a focus on work and an inability to accept someone who is on our level by trying to be whatever is told us that we should be. The word unlocks all of these issues and makes us most attractive. This is the way to connection.    
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2111  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: TT.UU.LL.II.PP.s still bloom on: September 17, 2011, 12:30:56 PM
God in no way extends grace saving ability to an unbeliever. But God has placed His curse on all men. God has not only cursed all men but He preordained that the first man Adam would sin. Why did God decree the sin of Adam? To prove that God is faithful without any other agencies. God must pre determine the conditions and the course of reality so that He alone will get the glory of not only the saving of man in time but the proof that He saves by His love from all eternity. Gods love must originate from Himself or we are only left with hate.

To be absent of the will to love is to be an atheist. Man is blind and foolish who will look for love in all the wrong places. Man runs from love because man will not acknowledge the existence of the will of love but man seeks to replace God and remove God from existence. Man is restless until he has found all of his security in God. In seeking to be independent of God then man cuts himself off from the reality and origin of love.

This proves that man is dead because he naturally embraces hate. The act of the will of man from his birth is never out of indifference but its a hateful act toward the love of God. Mans will is the proving ground for hateful defiance against this loving God. God must act against this defiance because man seeks to destroy everything in his path by his independence from God. Man is set on a pre ordained course and there is only one hope. Its for God to willingly act lovingly to save man from his own destruction.  
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2112  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Doctrine of Election on: September 17, 2011, 12:06:25 PM
The gospel is simply God acting from heaven in the salvation of men. Its God coming down out of heaven and doing the work necessary to procure salvation for those He foreknows from all eternity. God did not create in responding to pre conditions as an evolving God. But God produced the conditions by the power of His will. God existed from all eternity and that is why everything else exist. There is not in between agency of personal powers. lol.
This is why the gospel is a teaching that produces its effects. Because it is a gospel of Elohim, Jehovah, and El. The gospel is in God alone. God knows everything at one time in the most personal way. There is no other being that is equal to Gods knowledge of persons, events, or any reality. Even if God was mysterious and did not reveal the extent of His sovereign will we are still helpless to know our own future, to understand our own invisible parts, to see our own interior world and to understand our own birth in secret. Not only this but we cannot control our own heart beat. lol. We in essence are as weak as being able to know when the beat will stop. We know very little of the knowledge that God has as a mystery to us. So much so that it cries against our own strength and mortality.
This is why God proves His knowledge by showing that all men know nothing in comparison. Not that God is proving Himself by gifting us with God like knowledge. Instead God proves us weak and unable by speaking to us as mere worms. Why does God do this? Because of sin we show our foolishness by demanding that we know enough to be god. But God proves His foreknowledge of us by saying that all mens thoughts are futile. Not only does man lack the fore thoughts to be able to think like God but he is blind to his own ability to create future events by these thoughts. The point of God being the one who creates reality from forethought is to prove that man could not even exist without Gods prior creating into existence the reality of mans thoughts as showing man as futile without Gods saving and creating word. Man must be reduced to complete powerlessness in order to possess saving faith. I believed therefore i said i am greatly afflicted an in my distress i said all men are liars. lol   
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2113  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The secondary lie: full independence from God on: September 17, 2011, 11:45:30 AM
Kk... John developed the" in Christ" paradigm. The other paradigm is" in your sins." It does not say your going to cease to exist just like eternal life does not start in the future as a reward but it starts with being "in Christ" on this earth. So its not reward before Christ in the future that some will get eternal life and others will get punished by annihilation. But the dieing in your sins is standing before God guilty for all eternity with the antithesis as having eternal life when we go from being in our sins to being in Christ.

We are not disembodied spirits. Our eternal life is not being in Christ who possesses it in His dwelling as He is in heaven. But we possess eternal life. So its not living until we get to heaven but its the quality of eternal life on this earth. Its enjoying the blessings of being "in Christ." The antithesis is to be "in your sins". In other words in your sins is the personal imputed state of every person in Adam. The apostle makes this parallel in Romans. The point is that people in Adam died and yet still live. The apostle gives us the quality of the life of those in Adam just as He gives us the quality of men in Christ by eternal life now. The reality is not annihilation as a punishment . Taking ones own life is the ultimate sin of selfishness.      
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2114  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: September 17, 2011, 11:21:53 AM
The gospel is not a scientific experiment. Its not a word of wisdom that puts us in a club. The gospel is not a test for the ages. The gospel is not a necessary earthly experiment to prove that Christ is Lord. lol. The gospel is not overturned by the power structures of this earth. It is not an equal means to show that God exist from the heavens by the moral success of man. It does not divide the classes of people as if the religion of the day were defined by its extremes. But the gospel is the power of God. Man is unable to make God something in his own image. The gospel silences all men.

This is why the Bible has only one consistent message in which the answer is only available in a single condescension from heaven. The gospel is not worked out through a chain of authority. It is not a generational test given to man to prove that the gospel is the truth. But the gospel is completely contained in a covenant keeping God. The gospel never proves itself through a scientific test. Heaven has already acted and the work is complete. The ot saints looked forward to the coming Redeemer who condescended to take on human flesh and do the work necessary as the test that proves the power of the gospel. Now we look to a God who will bring all men to account in how He has determined to prove that He alone is faithful with the back drop that all earthly kingdoms will see in the next event. An earthly test in the future will only take away the glory that is due to this King. The King has come and it is finished. He has taken the spoils and there is no other choice but to acknowledge that Christ has finished the work and the power from heaven rules the earth at this time.

This is why the gospel is not a word of wisdom that works against the wisdom of this world. Its not a proving ground to show that Christ has been crowned King. But the gospel is the medicine. The gospel cannot be overcome by sin, the rulers of this earth, the spiritual forces in the heavenlies or in a test tube of mans works. Listen... the gospel is a single message in which it brings men to close connection. It does not give men the power to find peace with one another but the message of the gospel brings men under its power so that in acknowledging that He is Lord the by product is unity. The gospel is not a message of balance.

Wheres Kk... i love apologetic s.  lol... Kk we get to argue until we go to meet Him... thats not a bad thing ... lol.
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2115  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: In Response to accusations regarding the nature of God, eternal punishment, etc. on: September 15, 2011, 02:24:55 PM
KK:

  "Then you should agree that God banned Adam and Eve from the Garden so they wouldn't become immortal as sinners"

  No I would not. God created them mortals. There was no way they could become anything other than what God created them to be. Man could never be gods, and they have always been mortal.

  I think that you are confusing mortality with eternity. You are confusing the time/object continuum



If Adam and Eve had not sinned, they would have lived forever, true?  Which means God would have continued to grant them life perpetually.  Which is what immortality is, the on-going support of life by preventing the person from ever dying.  But when the first couple rebelled, they chose to reject His life support, which is found in the Person of Christ.

When they broke away from God they lost the unending Life of Christ which was sustaining them, and then became mortal, guaranteed to die unless they received a connection to unending Life again through Him.  Same as us mortals having no immortality, no guarantee of eternal existence, apart from a connection with the Source of eternal existence, Who is Jesus.  
If Adam and eve would have remained faithful then they would have fulfilled all the law in themselves. Man you guys how love to talk about libertarian free will do not give a full reward for the actual ability when man actually had a free will.  all over the place. lol.
Since the reward of living in full compliance to Gods law was that man in himself was rewarded with what he deserved by choosing life in himself. Then on the other side of the moral equation man is fully responsible for his failure and will be punished as a free moral agent through all eternity. Your moral system is equivalent to a neurosis.   Its not reward eternal life and punishment eternal death... but its quality of life and quality of death... check the biblical grammar books. God never uses the word annihilation.
 

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