2206	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted	on: August 13, 2011, 10:01:54 AM
Let me go at this from a different angle. There is always a way of thinking in a cultural sense that does not align with the biblical way of thinking. We must understand that the kingdom of God is not subject to our system of laws or of the promises and the way things are worked out in our culture from day to day. God is not subject to man but man is subject to God who is the final judge. We have a way in this country of twisting the truth to fit our needs rather than allowing God to speak in the truth that He is sovereign over all nations. First of all there is no man who can guarantee the rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We need to understand that God does not subject Himself to mans system of defense or prosecution. Man is not the ultimate judge. But God decrees whatsoever comes to pass. Because we cannot trust in things that are fleeting. The bible calls the counsel of man as worthless. First man does not think in a balance in any system that is created by man. But man thinks that he is the arbitrator of other men. Because man is born in sin ...does not mean that sin is hidden in the heart of man but sin really in mans process of reasoning. No man apart from God reasons for the ends of creating redeeming ends. But all of mans thoughts are futile. This is why when men talk about systems and truth they show the blindness to real value. In the end all of mans reasoning apart from God can only lead to bondage or promises they cannot fulfill.No matter how much power a man has it is subject to Gods scrutiny and always found wanting. God must bring the ways of man to nothing or they would end in total chaos. We do not think like the professional counselors of this world nor do we allow ourselves to trust in man so that we are disappointed. The bible makes it clear that we trust in God alone.
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2207  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Soul Sleep on: August 13, 2011, 09:25:09 AM The ot is the nt concealed and the the nt is the ot revealed. Weve got to keep these in focus and not get side tracked about the ceremonial laws and this special covenant relationship apart from Gods ultimate purpose to bring the gospel to the ends of the earth. We must understand that God who is the Lord Most High was an apoplectic God. The story of Gods relationship to man and the earth is God coming down to fight for His people. The ot physical relationship in a covenant with a particular nation is to show that God is reveal as entering time through the physical birth in the Messiah. God in the ot who came down to save His people through physical circumcision and then heart circumcision is that Messiah who would come to earth and complete the work of salvation so that all those called before and those called after would be brought into Gods everlasting kingdom to reign with Him because this Lamb of God purchased men from every tribe and language and people and nation. We must understand that the metaphorical language does not play down this war that comes down out heaven.There is a lot of miss interpretation applied to the universal love of God , His purpose in the course of how this revelation is played out. The heavenly descriptions in Revelation are a mirror of the wars that Israel experienced in the Davidic rule. The Lamb who is able to open the seals has triumphed through the line of David. There is a connection between the Lamb who comes to make war with the nations in revelation with the Lord Most High. The Lord Most High is the Lord who will save His people by preventing them from getting the death blow. Or He protects His people from death by protecting their most important asset which is their mind. I am currently trying to piece together this connection of the Ot apoplectic language so that I can show that God has always been a God of salvation , that salvation has always be a heavenly design , and all of the physical markers in the ot speak of Christ who is hidden but revealed in these types. The ot conquest of Israel is a mirror of the heavenly kingdom described in Revelation.   Reply Quote Notify

2208  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The New Reality of the Natural Man on: August 11, 2011, 04:28:25 PM God wants to produce power in us... from our inner man... that is something that comes to us as a foreign power. This is the purpose of our trials. God does not look at our inconsistencies and daily failures. But God is teaching us through His promises that He is a forgiving God, faithful, loving, always available, does not sleep or slumber but watches over us while we sleep, shows Himself to us bigger than all of the beautiful mountains so that He encourages us to see the most High place to reason and be taught. God is the Most High. But God looks at us with an eye to give us new life. This new life we receive day to day. The new life is what God speaks to us of greater things to come by telling us that His eternal promises are yea and amen. They are produce in us who are consistently reminded a hunger to be lifted up above all of the pleasures we receive from this world that influence our feelings , give us things we can observe, gives us satisfaction that we enjoy. It is dim compared to the greatness of knowing Jesus Christ our Lord. God lifts Christ up in us through speaking in us a better way. When we receive Gods communications then our minds are transformed so that we are renewed. This renewal is a more circumspect look at Gods grace. God gives us deep comparisons of His grace compared to all of the corrupted experiences that we have in this world. Gods grace is much stronger than our sins. This grace leads us to a special confidence. When God builds confidence in us we learn what sovereign grace looks like. We see everything in this world in a new way. We look beyond the beauty .. the physical beauty and we see the light of the glory. Then we begin to sense these spiritual aspects of this world. We hear the angels praising God , we see the spiritual battle behind the tent of this earth. When we are consumed in the illumination then we begin to have a power that abides with us. This power comes upon us. Its a kind of steady fire that gives us abiding faith. God wants us to be filled with understanding so that we are filled with the power from on high. The resurrection power that broke Jesus from the grave. The power that enlivens us while we experience things dying on this earth. God raises us up above our own reason so that the power of the Gospel causes us to do things we could never do in our own understanding.    Remove Reply Quote Notify

2209  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: August 11, 2011, 03:55:35 PM cont... let me apply this to you. What i just told you is the most attacked thinking that this world will ever endure. This thinking is attacked by the total realm of Satan. All around us are circumstances and invisible influences who fight to take our personal peace and freedom away in this pure gospel of grace. Ok... i said this... why would we ever be sorrowful again, why cant we enjoy this world and the gifts we receive in food and play in a way that glorifies God and does not harm us, why cant we enjoy each moment without guilt, sorrow, pain, fear etc? Because we live in a world that opposes all that God has done. They opposed Christ by trying to thwart Him from saving His people. The dogs surrounded Him , people spit and mocked Him, a band of evil men encircled Him... and you know what, they tried to kill Him before He actually finished His work in having the Father turn His face from Him. But Christ was saved from that death. His Father was watching over Him in the hour of His most trying time. But it was when He was the weakest that He face the most adversity. This is the way we are. But we are sinful and unbelieving. So a lot of people talk like they are going to trust that Gods love is plenty reason to glorify God and enjoy Him. But then the trials come, the sorrows of this world begin to enclose, we hear the jeers of the wicked, we receive the sorrows of those who put confidence in the flesh. And then we are taught that God says things that He never really has said. We begin to hear other peoples experiences rather than making faith a personal matter. Then we begin to compare our sorrows with their joys. Now then we feel abandoned and lost. You see God does not require us to be always at peace with what He has done. But His peace and rest is our coming to Him and as we build up these reasons why God would not help us this time. As we feel the anger rising up in us, we must present all of it to God. We must tell Him these burdens are to big for us to carry, that the evil men are surrounding us... that our faith is so weak we are going to fall... we feel like we are in bondage and we need Him set us free. Dont believe those self motivated people that say this is a sign that you must give something up. The perfect man who was on the cross felt trapped and discouraged. He saw the demons snapping at His feet. He did not sin and He cried out to His Father to deliver Him from this death! He was taken to the most sorrowful , psychologically trouble disposition that anyone could go. But He was seen and having strong cries ... loud cries,.... He shouted to His Father.. and He was saved. It may not be tomorrow ... or a week or a yr but God will store all of your cries. God is always loving God is love. He will not abandon you. There will be a brighter day. Listen just be transparent to Him. Dont believe that He has rejected you. Tell Him all of the stuff that is building up in you. Every day present your case and wait in expection.   Reply Quote Notify

2210  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: August 11, 2011, 03:23:52 PM God has an absolute promise to us. Its given to us by grace. God promises that He will save us out of His love. We must begin to see that this promise is yea and amen. Gods promise is not from our own willing it to be but its total power that we obtain has as its basis ...that power... from the work of Christ on the cross. The cross is in itself the obtaining of salvation through the work of the Trinity... alone. When we long for salvation we long for a work that was obtained in God alone. Now this speaks to us as yea and amen when we obtain this promise in assurance. We sinners receive salvation in the value it really is... that value that we could never earn, understand, or hope to keep ... on the basis of a free gift. So now we walk as aliens in this world, not because we look at grace as something we make attractive but because we believe that we obtain confidence, peace and prosperity by receiving this gift... the most valuable commodity in this world, the unfathomable riches , the unending forgiveness, the promise of being translated into an eternal kingdom where all tears will be wiped away, in light of our sins we commit, after our willful disobedience, in light of the worse fears, sorrows, misunderstandings, as being erased on the basis of how we compare this value to our own experience. Now listen to me... all the promises are based upon someone else work. The gifts to us are poured upon us to show the value of our own weakness and sin as the back drop of Gods evidence of Christ work already done on our behalf. Think about this. There is nothing we can do, no place we can go, not even being able in our own unbelief and sorrow to thwart Gods goodness and faithfulness in giving us grace for our sins. It is finished. We can be free to jump for joy and enjoy the gifts God has given to us , knowing that He already did the work that gives us confidence even when we misuse these gifts! Reply Quote Notify

2211  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: August 11, 2011, 03:03:41 PM cont. Let me talk about some things the reformers did not connect to our sin. We must look at sin in light of how we hear the holistic united voice of a patriarchal society. We must conclude that creating the circumstances for our corruption comes as we face the inconsistent patterns of what is family acceptance. Satan has designed this world not in a moralistic free choice to reason against guilt, fear and sorrow , but Satan holds the world in his clutches through domination and threats. In other words we must see sin as the unwillingness to resist standing against the wiles of the Devil in the means that God has given us for victory. People can do the next best thing but in light of the designs that Satan has already held people in his schemes it may be just following the cog in the machine of Satan. We must begin to focus on the difference between innocence and genuineness with foresight and being wise as serpents. The christian experience is that we are given a language that thwarts all of Satan s schemes. So we do not enter this battle with sin and the Devil with a special ability through our own efforts. But we enter the battle as learners. All of our own health is determined by our self talk. We must not hold onto defensive strategy's that will in the end fail us. In a sense the way we are born, the world we are born into , and the experience of this continuous threats to our own spiritual vitality begins as if we were our own worst enemy. What i am saying is just to fight with sin is not necessarily the way to find rest. Just to determine to make a personal effort to keep ourselves from the appearance of evil may lead us down a side road. We must begin by adding one precept upon another. We must look at this struggle in light of our continuous efforts to obtain illumination from revelation.    Remove Reply Quote Notify

2212  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: August 11, 2011, 09:20:40 AM Quote from: Yep on August 09, 2011, 08:02:02 PM mbg   I agree with you, but now what? It seems that you leave it with the glass half full. So is there hope? Yep...thanks for the question.... I have always stated that we are definitively sanctified. But i think it is dangerous to teach that a person can arrive to being in a position where they are strong enough in themselves to overcome their sin. I dont think the bible teaches that we can repent to the point where we will get past a sin, or we will be able to define our sin down so that we get a kind of final exam grade. But i believe that we start off thinking that sin is what we do as to others see us. But as we learn grace we become aware of sin on a deeper level. The sins we do not think are important ... the ones that have deep roots are the sins of self knowledge. Its the way we think of sin. Our dealing with our own sins is not necessarily done in our own evaluation. I believe the scripture puts limits on how much power we possess in defining the difference between what is true humility and what is trading one sin for another. So we must start with how God has designed us to deal with sin as if we were locked in a room. So that we did not have any distractions in dealing with own level of anxiety of which in light of our being in a culture that blinds us to the real reasons and source of our sin. In dealing with sin we must understand how we are to obtain peace with ourselves. The bible calls this taking refuge in God. So in dealing with sin we do not look out there but in here. Kk will tell you that sin is a circumstantial and single focused addiction. With a promise of freedom by admitting that we are powerless , followed by an additional self fulfilled method of feeling forgiven by coming clean. He will say that this is absolutely necessary because Christ was offering forgiveness in light of our coming clean. Or as Kk says either we do this or we keep resisting Christ who will remain silent and we will end up being annihilated. lol. But i am saying that we must first determine to find all of our forgiveness and peace in God alone. In placing our trust in Christ we must determine to seek peace in all of His work on our behalf. We must stand on His promise that since we have been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We must conclude this is where all the attacks of the Devil will come to. The Devil will try to make us double minded for the purpose of creating doubt in us. We must see that no matter how bad our sins have been . No matter how many sins we have committed, we must see that our most cherished genuine characteristic of our faith is our confession. Our confession was that in being placed in the family of God we no longer put our confidence in our own power, that is confession, performance, forgiveness, peace  , joy, love, but all of these words are analogies to our personally receiving in Gods grace. All of these words are gifts to us in return for our unbelief. We must not think that our receiving salvation was different or deserved at any time in our christian experience as if we were different from any other sinner.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2213  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: 2012 Republican field....pretty sad isn't it? on: August 10, 2011, 05:35:24 PM RUSH: I went to dinner last night with a friend.  You know, folks, I'm having trouble recalling the time in my life where no matter who I get together with the subject always ends up being how frightened people really are for the country.  These are successful people.  We're told about these people that they don't care what happens -- they've got theirs -- and nothing, of course, would be further from the truth.  Now, we have faced unbelievable obstacles, America has, and we've overcome all of them since our founding. But what is happening now is that the federal government... This is different.  I guess I should preface this by saying that I've read a couple pieces in what I call the mainstream media, even mainstream conservative media. One piece was, "Hey, hey, hey, don't overreact. You know, this stuff happens in America all the time. We go through our ups and downs, and there are always challenges to America as founded. We've always triumphed, and we always will." It was Ramesh Ponnuru who writes at National Review Online and had an opinion piece at Bloomberg in which he basically spelled out how Obama is a lock to win reelection, citing the Reagan and Carter races and what was different about them today versus Reagan-Carter and the electorate and so forth. I'm looking at both of these pieces and I'm wondering, "What do they not see that I see?" or, "How come they are not seeing this as drastically as we all do?"  I mean, this is not precedent-ed.  There are a lot of us who believe that we have not come this close to losing our country before, not eternally, anyway.  So we've faced unbelievable obstacles, we've overcome all of them, but I think what's happening now is that the federal government is exercising power that it has never before had.  Large ways, small ways.  The federal government is exercising power for a specific purpose.  The federal government under Obama is exercising power to undo what America stands up for. I don't recall that ever happening, and I must admit that when I read pieces by people I respect and have known and read, I wonder: Why don't they see this? Why is this just the usual, normal ebb and flow political cycling to people?  "Yeah, the Democrats are gonna win one here or there. We're gonna win one here and there. They're gonna have Congress for a while; we're gonna have Congress for a while. We'll have the power for a while to spend the money the way we think it should be spent. They'll have the power." How can people on our side not see what's being done to the country via the federal government?  How can they not see how this is different?  I ask myself that -- as an open-ended question, not as an insulting question.  I'm genuinely curious: How do they not see it? Why do they not see it?  What don't they see?  You and I pretty much all see it in the dire consequences that we've defined.  The federal government is exercising power it's never before had, in large ways and small ways, to undo what America stands for.  Which is what transformation's all about. And all of this has been years in the making.  But now's the time with the current political leadership that it has reached a truly perilous point, and I don't think it helps to overcome it by downplaying it or by suggesting it's no different, really, than any other time.  We've never been this much in debt!  Folks, our credit rating, for the first time since ever, the credit rating first went into effect in 1917, year now AA+.  The French! The French today, Standard & Poor's and Moody's both kept France at AAA+. The world was told that France is a better credit risk than we are, and we got TV networks running crawls saying,  "Dow surrenders!" The French a better credit risk than we are, and we are surrendering?  You know, I'm all for looking for silver linings, but if they're not there, it's far more dangerous to misdiagnose the nature of things than not.  What is occurring in America today is un-American.  That's what sets it apart.  That's what makes it different.  We have no historical comparison to this kind of government morass.  We have faced existential threats before, we've faced external threats before, we've even faced internal threats before, but not of this sort. And if it is to be overcome, it's going to take a great deal of course reversing, and soon.  Will take more than one election.  It's going to take many elections, and the threat is from within.  The very system that was to protect us has become the threat, and I do not understand how there are people that don't see that.  I'm not talking about you. You do see it.  You -- us, the average American -- are so far ahead of those who claim to be our betters; or if not our betters, the ones who intellectually more advanced, they're the ones to inform us and analyze for us we are so far ahead of our own analysts on this.  The very system that was to protect us is and has become the threat. That's why there's nervousness everywhere.  There are people genuinely afraid of future of the country, for the future of the country. Not the future of the Republican Party or what's gonna happen in the next election, but the future of the country.  It's a real danger.  It's not a passing one. It has to be considered as such, not just another point in history.  That's why this thing in Wisconsin last night was so important and the way it happened -- on its own without any external impact or influence.  This was the people of Wisconsin on their own.  You know, nations do decline, countries do decline. It's happened before, and it's happening all around us.  It just isn't necessary. Reply Quote Notify

2214  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: How can you explain Deuteronomy 13:6-12 to friends? on: August 09, 2011, 03:02:34 PM Quote from: dohwid on August 09, 2011, 02:48:16 PM Quote from: mybigGod link=topic=13950.  msg241614#msg241614 date=1312915373 But when Jesus claimed that He forgives sins they were enraged because only God forgives sins.   So they reasoned that He was claiming to be God.   Then they crucified Him.   At that point in time they TRIED to kill him.   But it wasn't His time yet.   However if you get down to the nitty gritty, for the present day, the real reason of Today is exactly what I have told you.   They may throw up alot of other "smoke screen" reasons in order to get missionaries off their backs.   Yet what I have said is true. What you have said about the reason of divinity being THE reason. . .  no.  it is not the only one nor is it the primary one.   Jesus was the fulfillment of all the ot prophets. Remember when He was in the temple and He was reading the Torah and He closed the book..ie scroll.. as a fulfillment of the prophecy that a prophet would come and be the Messiah... so when He closed the book He said this day it has been fulfilled. And Jesus kept all the Torah. The Pharisees and the teachers did not interpret it correctly..... Jesus was always correcting them. about working on the sabbath... in the Sermon on the Mount.. etc. Reply Quote Notify

2215  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: How can you explain Deuteronomy 13:6-12 to friends? on: August 09, 2011, 02:42:53 PM Quote from: dohwid on August 09, 2011, 02:37:05 PM Quote from: mybigGod link=topic=13950. msg241611#msg241611 date=1312914651 Quote from: dohwid link=topic=13950. msg241610#msg241610 date=1312914514 Quote from: mybigGod link=topic=13950.  msg241608#msg241608 date=1312913957 D.  .  .   maybe you can fill me in.  .  i know there are many different interpretations among orthodox jews but ive heard .  .  .   not among the Messianic Jews .  .   but the orthodox Jews.  .   they actually hold a mock funeral for the person who places his faith in Christ.    And by the way .  .  .   welcome.   MBG you have met me before.   I am the Daveed that was here before but I couldn't find the info (or remember it) to reactivate my account. however back to the issue at hand: Such a ceremonial funeral IS done.   But I didn't ask or dispute the fact that it is done. I asked "Why do you think this is my friend?" Because some orthodox Jews believe that Jesus is not God so they treat them as following another god.   It's not so much about not believing Him to be G-d.  It goes back to His claim to be the Messiah.  They say that He "was a false prophet".  The reason why they say that is because His followers say that, "one of His most influential sent ones (namely Paul) said that,' Yeshua's followers don't need to and shouldn't keep certain aspects of the Torah/Law/Instructions of G-d'". But when Jesus claimed that He forgives sins they were enraged because only God forgives sins. So they reasoned that He was claiming to be God. Then they crucified Him. Reply Quote Notify

2216  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: How can you explain Deuteronomy 13:6-12 to friends? on: August 09, 2011, 02:30:51 PM Quote from: dohwid on August 09, 2011, 02:28:34 PM Quote from: mybigGod link=topic=13950. msg241608#msg241608 date=1312913957 D. . .  maybe you can fill me in. . i know there are many different interpretations among orthodox jews but ive heard . . .  not among the Messianic Jews . .  but the orthodox Jews. .  they actually hold a mock funeral for the person who places his faith in Christ.   And by the way . . .  welcome.   MBG you have met me before.  I am the Daveed that was here before but I couldn't find the info (or remember it) to reactivate my account. however back to the issue at hand: Such a ceremonial funeral IS done.  But I didn't ask or dispute the fact that it is done. I asked "Why do you think this is my friend?" Because some orthodox Jews believe that Jesus is not God so they treat them as following another god. Reply Quote Notify

2217  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: August 09, 2011, 02:26:25 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on August 09, 2011, 02:06:57 AM mbG:  "The bible is the only power that separates the soul and spirit and gives us the true intent of the heart. Without these constant illuminations we are in danger of being impaled in this world through demonic wounding." K_k:  Yes, and that is why i continually encourage and admonish you to see what is actually written in the Word of God, not what you think it should say, or your theological training says it must say.  Without the constant illuminations of the Holy Spirit we are in danger of twisting the Scriptures by our traditions and misunderstandings, to satan's delight. Kk ... i am not twisting scripture by holding to the interpretations of the reformers dating back to Augustine. Your insistence that these men do not know what they are talking about is just backwards. No one with any respect of knowing interpretation.... holds to the idea that God is the Father of all men. That is simply historically heresy. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2218  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: How can you explain Deuteronomy 13:6-12 to friends? on: August 09, 2011, 02:19:17 PM D... maybe you can fill me in..i know there are many different interpretations among orthodox jews but ive heard ... not among the Messianic Jews .. but the orthodox Jews.. they actually hold a mock funeral for the person who places his faith in Christ.  And by the way ... welcome. Ive memorized the book of Psalms and meditated on it for 20 yrs. So i am well versed in the Davidic mindset. I know Solomon strayed in this diplomatic connection. Reply Quote Notify

2219  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: How can you explain Deuteronomy 13:6-12 to friends? on: August 09, 2011, 12:45:08 PM You ve got to understand that God distinguished His covenant people from the nations because they were given the oracles of God. These oracles included how the nation was to function as a peaceful people. I do not think that Israel has ever been a war hungry nation. We always begin with the fear of God as the pre supposition that they would act correctly. Not really being taught the Torah as a necessity to keep them from turning to other gods. The bible is clear that men born in sin will not naturally follow Jehovah.  The reason that God forbade other gods was because He does not allow men to thwart His purposes. The problem in trusting other gods was that men were seeking relationships that had no real power. These gods only gave men selfish power to create problems in Israel... because God alone is the author of love, trust, goodness, and kindness. All other gods are dead idols. So a person who worships dead idols will work from the presupposition that he will be violent, corrupted, and scandalous. In other words they looked at people who worshiped dead idols as dead people. lol. Just look at what happens to a Jew who turns to Christ from Judaism..he is treated as a dead man. The problem with not fearing God was looked at by the covenant community as a disease that would spread. It would spread violence, slander, divorce, adultery etc. So they had a very strong adversarial relationship with the nations.They believed that relationships with the nations would be like catching a disease. Thats why they were ordered by God to kill woman and children. But we see that it was near impossible to keep the gods out of the covenant community because there were many people who only had the physical mark of circumcision.  Reply Quote Notify

2220	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life	on: August 09, 2011, 12:08:17 PM
Doctrines are instruments to finely tune the soul. They are the heavenly music we hear because our minds are programed to the correct notes that are coming down out of heaven. These heavenly creatures do not act in their own orchestra. But they play the instrument and sing the psalms in perfect order. This is why even the smallest note in Gods order is so important. Doctrine is the same way. When we depart from the historical doctrines of justification by faith through grace then we add to the gospel. When we add to the gospel its like listening to an orchestra where the instruments are being played in the wrong notes. The music comes to us like a confused noise. lol.But God has made us to receive pleasure as the doctrines are refined and the words become our way of thinking. We always say that the medicine really is not the application but its the music we hear that calms the heart... encourages the down trodden, gives grace to the sinner, and causes the people to rejoice because the pleasure of the glory is so clear that the sound enters like a beautiful piece of music that plays on the strings of our hearts. Learn to see how someone uses speech as seeing how an orchestra plays music.      2221  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Coming: Perfect Government (WOW!) on: August 09, 2011, 11:44:59 AM These gap theorist are like mad scientist who look at the events of the world and read back into scripture. They do not hold onto the doctrines that were preached before and that is why the dispensational doctrine is a work from the religion of scientific evolution. Its theories are no different than the cartoon pictures of the ape man. But we have a more sure word in the eternal apoplectic language from before the world was created.  We know that God destroys the wicked as the back drop for showing that He will defend His covenant people. God is a God who is like a fire who goes out and consumes His foes on every side. God is not a scientific test for a generational super race who gets to be the Guenna pig. But God orders events from Heaven to dethrone the kings of the earth in order to save the humble and contrite. God shows the humble by reaching down to where they are at and causes them to walk in his way. He works from the beginning to show that He is faithful as a covenant keeping God. God enters time as the only one who orders the events of this world to culminate in the judgement of men for His own glory. This is why we do not have a theology of contradictions. We see a God who double predestines in the race of men. We look at real causes and not two equal philosophy. That being a scientific God and a God who reacts to the goodness of men. We really believe that justification by faith is not a side issue as long as men fall in line. But we lead with justification by faith in the historical way because we start with Gods love covenant as the basis of the total process of renewing all things. We reason as ones who are justified by faith as the means to prosper in sanctification. But these gap theorist teach a pseudo justification by faith with a major focus on Gods testing men, not as describing salvation as by faith alone through grace alone in Christ alone but by God testing men in light of mans own righteousness. God really is subject to change based upon mans response in the test. lol. We repeat the apostle... you received the Spirit of adoption and covenant.. why are you trying to be justified in the flesh? Reply Quote Notify 2222  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: August 09, 2011, 10:50:34 AM Sometimes we make God so glorious that we do not teach confidence in coming to Him. And in making heaven have no link to the purposes on this earth we fail to see  the God of order who has more created beings who do the will of God. God has chosen to rule this particular earth in the mist of many other structures in space as the evidence that He is just, all powerful, all knowing and in these attributes He is the only holy one. God shows Himself by establishing this earth. This is why we have the sounds of heaven that we hear on earth so that we will always see that God rules from His throne. From His throne come flashes of lightening and pears of thunder. And we have these sounds that are order by God in creation as a reminder that He has established His voice as the word from Heaven that He rules over the earth. He has in a sense designed the earth as a display of His heavenly throne for the purpose of our understanding that eternity is breaking in on time. Some times after a few hours in the Psalms i begin to hear the rumblings of the thunder and then the earth is given life by the rain.  These rumblings are music that God has not left us without a personal display of His love and He communicates it to us by His speaking into existence all that transpires. When i hear these rumblings i am filled with confidence as if God were responding with a word of encouragement. I would love to hear these rumblings every time i called upon the Lord. But these physical sounds point to a much more powerful display of Gods holiness. Gods glory is the effervescence in the face of Jesus Christ. But He has created the heavenly cloud of witnesses that we will see in the future. These creatures and angels surround the throne of God and in looking upon God they fall down on their faces and worship. There is a great cloud of witnesses that bring about the events in time. These angels have access to earth and do the will of God. They are order by God to interact with the events on this earth. We are taught that Gods glory is seen from the heavens so that the heavens are like a tent over the earth in which Gods invisible work is carried out to produce the events on this earth. We are taught that we have angels who are ministering spirits sent to act on our behalf because we are the saints of God. These angels are in eternity who surround the throne of God ...they cannot be numbered so they are miles and miles of angels who sing and worship God.  But God as all glorious uses His multitude of angels to come to us in a personal way. We who are very small and have very little power have this heavenly army at our call. Jesus who is the great warrior in the sky displays His glory by intervening in the events in the world who comes to deliver us from the schemes of the Devil and His minions. Without our faith seeing things unseen we are most venerable to the attacks of the Devil. But God has placed heaven in each of our hearts and He illuminates our hearts to see what is not seen. So we begin to be in a universe where the glory of God is felt and experienced in this relationship of the angels of heaven and Christ vision of His rescue from the heaven-lies on our behalf. We have a much more profound ability than just our appearance before men. We have interaction with the angels through the promises of God to minister to us by our calling on God to use His forces to intervene on our behalf. The reason that we do not feel the events changing in our illumination is because we do not have a faith that sees things that are unseen. We do not reason that Gods spreading His tent over us is more than just a horizontal rescue. God comes down in a majestic way and delivers us in the day of evil. God sends His angels to hunt down wicked men and cause them to lose their minds. He destroys the wicked in their way. God causes men to tremble by ordering events in such a way that there are sudden destruction before their eyes. There is not time to repent when God speaks.    Remove Reply Quote Notify 2223  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: August 09, 2011, 08:55:00 AM These white robes are the garb of heaven. All the saints will be clothed in the righteousness of Christ. These robes are represented by the legal declaration that is given to the saint by the Lord of glory. They are Gods vindication of the righteous who fulfills our renewed desires. The desires of the righteous will be fulfilled because they speak in us to seek His face , and we automatically say... your face i will seek. But this is not just in the words of seek Your face... but they describe the protection the righteous enjoy on this earth in finding refuge in our God. This refuge will ultimately end in our having no more pain or being under the constraints of the flesh but they will lead to a continuous flow from the throne of God of the experience of eternal life. But at the same time the righteous also desire the punishment of the wicked. These desires will not be thwarted. Because the kingdom of God is not meat or drink but righteousness , joy and peace in the Holy Ghost. So in being clothed with the righteous robes of Christ we have the kingdom of God living in our hearts. So we will see the wicked clothed in their own worthless ends. If we take refuge in God then He speaks salvation to us. How does He speak?... by encouraging our faith with His covenant promises. He leads us along like a shepherd by the streams of living water. These streams are illuminations to us that encourage our longings. These longings are gifted to us to bring the ends for which God will avenge the righteous who suffer on this earth. The giving of the white robes is very significant to encourage us to seek the destruction of the wicked by praying and longing that they get ensnared in the traps they have set for us. The wicked long for their own rule but their longings in to be like the chaff that blows in the wind. But the righteous long to hear the salvation of God pronounced in their identifying with Jesus as the only righteousness that we are clothed with. This is followed by God spreading His tent over us. This tent is Gods goodness, faithfulness, eternal love and power , wisdom, strength, honor glory and praise. Because we long to hear a word of salvation in our most trying times , then God brings these trials to strengthen our resolve to find this new word of salvation in which He speaks to our hearts. The way He does this is to spread His tent over us. By His reminding us through His covenant to us that He will protect us from the hands of the wicked and see us through until all of these attributes are seen in all of their splendor with uninhibited wonder as we look on the Lamb of Glory. We see through a dark glass but then we shall see face to face. This is the brightness of His glory that will blind the minds of evil men. In this life there is a glory that works on our behalf that prevents the wicked from fulfilling their desires. This glory is the blinding force that is tented over the wicked to bring them to ruin. The wicked are overcome with their own schemes because God will not share His own glory with any other man. He must spread the tent of destruction over the lives of the wicked. But the righteous have their minds set on heavenly things because these righteous desires for the destruction of the schemes of the wicked and the longing to see Christ cannot be thwarted. God promises to spread His tent over us as the final proof that His love cannot fail. He will act on our behalf as we look to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. This faith is seeing the salvation of God. Its having only one thing we seek. Its seeing the kingdom of God in all of its wonder come in our hearts. This tent is getting glimpses of the light of the Glory of God for the sake of strengthening our faith so that we listen to God speak the new salvation to us by consuming the dross on this earth and causing us to obtain the ends of our faith in the salvation that He alone pronounces. The new word of deliverance. Have you been resisting the Devil? Do you believe that God speaks and all is well? Do you consistently take your troubles to God and ask Him to cause you to gloat over those who scheme against you? Listen these communications are in the patient slow process of finding redemption in this life. They only come to those who learn how to wait through many trials until their desires are fulfilled and their faith is strengthened. Theses communications cannot be thwarted. The Lamb of Glory who avenges the righteous is in the center of the throne. Because He is in the center then His rule is eternal. He is omniscient , omni present, omnipotent. He alone will in the end bring glory to Himself. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2224  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: August 09, 2011, 07:32:10 AM This discussion has two sides. On the one side Kk is focusing on a man confessing, coming clean, admitting etc as the means by which he is enabled to begin to recover. But i am teaching the doctrine of sin in the biblical context. I am more interested in what God says about sin than what the gurus teach. Sin is not just doing something in a destructive manner but its any thought that goes astray from seeking and enjoying God. Man is born in his own counsel. Man devises schemes to bring glory to himself. The way he does this is to develop behavioral modification principles that are wise in his own eyes. Man has a bigger problem than addiction to drugs or alcohol. Man is addicted to thinking independent of God. He says in his heart... there is no God. Man is corrupted, always going astray, their deeds are vile,  and there is no one who does good , no not one. They have all turned aside, they have all become corrupted. The whole world must be silenced before God who alone is good. When a person humbles himself then he does not come as if he needed to act a certain way in order to obtain something from God. Like displaying humility, thinking that he must admit all of his sin to God in order to receive forgiveness, trying to appease Gods goodness through connecting with other men. But a person comes to God as God defines sin. A person comes to God as an individual and learns how God defines that persons individuality. God not only took care of sin in His Son but He took care of the consequences of that sin. God is not encouraging us to know our sin but He is encouraging us to know Him and then we will know ourselves. God knows that if we make the search for sin in the next rite thing that we will focus on the horizontal relationship with outward sin instead of the unseen sins that we do not know about or we do not admit on a deeper level about ourselves. We want to focus on the sin that we think is the main one by our measurement . God wants to get down to the sins that deal with our inability to deal with because we think these sins are worse by mans standards. God is dealing with our sin as His ways are not our ways or His thoughts are not our thoughts. God wants us to come to Him as unable to deal with our own sins because we see they are beyond our understanding. Our problem is that we are independent of Gods authority. We love to focus on sin that everyone can see. But no matter how much we overcome that addiction ... in Gods eyes we are just as rebellious in the same spirit as we were born. Because God wants to order our thoughts so that we will trust Him not only with the sins we see but those sins we do not understand. God sees everything. God counts the number of our hairs. God knows our genetic predispositions. God knows the difference between our sins and weaknesses. God knows us as he sees all of what is said about us, what men do to devise and trap us, what we are going to face in each moment,  what the end of our lives are on this earth, and our eternal dwelling in heaven. God determines our ways and has already ordered our lives so that our sin is turned for our good and we have been completely vindicated , standing in heaven as sinless in His Son. Prior to our being born... God had already determined the direction of every generation.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2225  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Psalms study... on: August 08, 2011, 08:17:11 PM A Psalm for meditation rather then singing... Mizmor not joined with Shir LORD ... Jehovah. eternal ... immutable God. light... metonmy of Effect ... light put for Jehovah as the author of joy. strength ... protection of whom... as in Roms.8:31 wicked...injurious...From its root which indicates its nature as breaking up all that is good and desirable. injurious to all others. in greek...poneros, evil, bad kakos...moral depravity and corruption and lewdness. enemies... adversaries... in this we have the foundation of his confidence... in the need of it... and in the exercise of it. v 2,3 4-14 Seeking   Hiding      Enemies       Joy Seeking   Hiding   Enemies   Hope dwell... beauty... pleasantness ...delightfulness enquire... contemplate with admiration temple...used generally of heaven but also of the holy place time... day. hide....metonymy of Adjunct ... hiding put for protection afforded by it. pavilion....dwelling secret... secret place, where no stranger was admitted tabernacle... tent or habitation...the tent erected as a special place of worship before the Tabernacle was set up. Hence to be always distinguished from the Tabernacle proper. sacrifices of joy... joyful sacrifices.  genitive of character. hence with shouts of joy. Have mercy... show favor or be gracious when... or to thee my heart , He hath said . Seek thou My face. , thy face O Jehovah will I seek. God Elohim covenant God... God the Son.. the Word... Begotten of His Father.. of.....Gen. of origin...the salvation that comes from God. denoting agency. take me up...receive and protect me with His saints teach... point out or direct enemies...those that observe me will... soul nephesh. enemies... adversaries I had fainted .. unless...the hebrew word has the extraordinary points in the MSS to show that Massorites regarded it as not having been in the primitive text. Its presence accounts for the insertion. They are not found in some codices...the SEPT... etc. The verse should read... I shall see the goodness the land of the Living....Isa 38.11 wait... apostrophe.... when the speaker turns away from the real auditory whom he is addressing to speak to another , who may be God, men,animals, inanimate things. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2226  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: August 08, 2011, 05:42:55 PM You need to understand the Shepherd only comes to sinners. Not to the imagination that sinners are acceptable. The christian experience is a set of beliefs that we hold dear and these beliefs are like our sweat. If they are firmly in us then they will come out of our pours as real grace. So we have this inner speech that creates a kind of image of reality. Any departure from grace gives us an evil image or what we call an idol image of the real thing. Its not what we teach or what we fail to teach.. necessarily. But its teaching a kind of grace as it really is in the human experience. Luther says that we should bleed the bible. What he was saying was that the bible is the only means by which we can distinguish what is real love and what is a kind of stalking image of love. In other words the scriptures are the holistic understanding that creates in man a new image of the reality of himself. It frees a man to enjoy the gifts that God has given by giving him the ability to know what is a false application, what he personally needs in response to his specific weaknesses and what is true freedom as opposed to being enslaved by a law as if it was the means by which we became acceptable or the law of man. The bible is the only power that separates the soul and spirit and gives us the true intent of the heart. Without these constant illuminations we are in danger of being impaled in this world through demonic wounding. That is why self righteousness as a system is so dangerous because you never come out healthy or whole when they are done with you.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2227  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Coming: Perfect Government (WOW!) on: August 08, 2011, 04:58:01 PM I was listening to a teacher over the radio this week who was teaching that this age is a gap. Like a suspension of Gods kingdom activities. In this gap period we all are destined for a life of misery. But we must pull up our boot straps cause grace aint cheap. lol. Now Kk is teaching along these same lines. This mystery gap was something that i embraced for many yrs before i actually started to memorize large portions of scripture. I realized the only gap theory that exist was in between my ears. I really had talked myself into distancing myself from the King. lol. I was looking for utopia and was taught that it was in the distant future when God would restore Israel and again bring in the sacrificial system as the means by which God would atone for their sins. The reason that i believed that the sacrifice of Christ was going to be replaced in the time when Christ actually became king ... of which i had talked myself into more sorrow and frustration than i could imagine... was because all the verses in this dispensation view include the sacrificial system as a prerequisite for placing a future kingdom on earth. I was selling my soul for a pottage of contradictions. Christ ruling through Isreal while the sacrifices were going on rite under His nose. lol The gap theory has as its basic introductory argument that God was unable to arm twist the Jewish nation to obedience and because of Gods continuous threats He had to turn to the Gentiles ... these sinners who had no understanding of the Mosaic institution but were more than willing to receive this grace with the stipulation that Christ was holding off His kingdom but through our pain we will one day see it. lol. Well God did not have plans from eternity to spread the gospel to the ends of the earth but He was forced to bring in this mystery... by these rebels. lol. So i embrace this suffering in exchange for Gods lack of leadership for a future of bliss on this earth. lol. This is why Christians are left with a gap between their ears. Because they talk about the eternal kingdom out there but embrace a kind of secular institution run church. If Christ is waiting to install His kingdom then there is no reason why He should personally get involved in His church.   Reply Quote Notify 2228  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: When I Say "I Am A Christian" on: August 08, 2011, 04:46:12 PM This is a general response to both Kk and Thor. The ot idea of salvation was not formed by Gods teaching through law. But it was established by God through covenant. God chose a people not based upon comparison with other people or with their qualifications to receive this gift in covenant promises. So the people were taught through the means of circumcision that they were part of the covenant community of Israel. God had established His rule through these people He chose to spread salvation to the ends of the earth. But God was also dealing with a group of really bad sinners. The ot is a narrative of rebellion. For anyone to claim that in the covenant community there were real law keepers has not really paid attention to how God deals with His people. lol. Its amazing to me that i teach inability and people come out of the wood work to claim themselves as re presenters of law keepers.  lol. But the ot is teaching that God chooses a people for Himself .. for His own reasons and through His eternal love alone... shows them kindness, patience, love, grace and salvation. Over and over again God shows Himself faithful to covenant breakers. This is the OT narrative. Is there an elephant in the room? lol But at the same time God did not promise to bless them through the physical circumcision. But He required that they be circumcised in the heart. How did this heart circumcision happen? Through the law? May it never be! God actually chose idol worshipers in the covenant community to show Himself as faithful and loving by making them covenant keepers through grace. If God required them to obey the law without grace then grace is no more grace. If God changed them into being acceptable as law keepers without declaring them innocent in the court of heaven then grace is no more grace. But God decided to come and meet with sinners through grace to establish Himself as loving and faithful for the purpose of having a community who rejoiced in the actual relationship with this all loving God. So He only met them through grace. Or there was always a mediator. Salvation is not a choice, its not a way to keep the law, its not a proof that we are good and trying to establish that we have free will,  but salvation is expressed in Gods love being exposed to sinners who are unable to understand this love in any other relationship.   Reply Quote Notify 2229  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: When I Say "I Am A Christian" on: August 08, 2011, 09:32:15 AM Jn 21 23 Jesus entered the temple courts, and, while he was teaching, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him. “By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you this authority?”  24 Jesus replied, “I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 25 John’s baptism—where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or of human origin?”    They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘Of human origin’—we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet.”  27 So they answered Jesus, “We don’t know.”    Then he said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things. The Parable of the Two Sons     28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’    29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.    30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.    31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”    “The first,” they answered.    Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. Lk 15  28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’    31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’” If you do not come to God as bankrupt like these whom Jesus hung out with then you have a very small God ... Thor. Reply Quote Notify 2230  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: August 08, 2011, 09:08:58 AM . Remove Reply Quote Notify 2231  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: When I Say "I Am A Christian" on: August 08, 2011, 08:43:20 AM I do not think God is a child abuser. If God did not decide before hand to chose a people who are sinners to love them in-spite of their constant giving into sin then we would have no assurance of our personal defense in this world. Most of the time we flounder because we think faster than heaven moves the events. So we assume that God is sending messages to us that are separate from His word. This is why the word never returns void. Because if we come to God with our own sorrow and discouragement as if God were asking us to waste away in trying to be patient then we must conclude that all of the past pains that we endured were added up as a reason to endure another present pain. But we must see a God who is outside of our works box. In other words we are always trying to put God in a box by not considering all of the counsel that He has given us in order to ask for grace and then receive more than we could ever ask for. There are people who do not teach a healthy doctrine of grace. I think its because they reject the 5 points so they mix the flesh with the spirit. Or they make works part of grace as a kind of stick to enforce good behavior. But if we are going to focus on our own righteousness then we need to start adding our times we stray so that they speak against our present experience. But we see that God has left us with a way to reason so that we do not give the Devil a foot hold on how we deal with ourselves or how we accuse others. The biggest threat is not our sin but its standing on the side of the Devil and shooting at our own. This is why we believe that grace is stronger then sin because of Christ work on our behalf. We acknowledge that we are sinners but we do not stay there. Some of us have so much hate built up from the abuse of the present world that we turn it on ourselves in an unhealthy view of the doctrines of grace. Why do we want to be abused if we begin with the Spirit and then even trying to work it out in the flesh its just self defeating. Because we are not programed to have success with a scheme of our own righteousness. Our own thinking is causing us much grief. lol.  Ive always said that i cannot totally trust someone who has not consistently washed themselves in these doctrines of grace in an obedient way. How hard is it to think correctly as the way to walk in the christian life? We would rather establish behavior modification and work till we are totally exhausted and we give in. But we are given a way to find assurance and confidence. Now then it takes a commitment to think like God has told us to think. To check our thinking before we establish our confidence in our own schemes and we are more familiar with out own sorrow than with the heavenly gift that comes down upon us. Heres how we obey. When we struggle with sin and some sins we always give into more than others we must not think they are added up from day to day. Because if we think this way then at some point we will struggle with unbelief. Unbelief is the sin of not finding our confidence in Christ work on our behalf. Its attributing some of our own righteousness as the reason for our confidence. We must not focus on our own confidence because we are in this battle with much bigger fish to fry. Satan would like us to mix our confidence with Gods strength. He wants us to reason falsely in the smallest matters that we do not think there is sin but the biggest sins are not the ones that show up in our behavior... the biggest ones how we lead others away from grace. We must see that grace is something that is learned from the top down . A society that  falls into corruption has the mechanism that is taught through the doctrines of men. Earthly power is dangerous. This is why God always condemns the leaders in light of the eternal judgement at the expense of the helpless and the poor. Because the biggest obstacle to grace is mens oppression. This is why God resist the proud but gives grace to His chosen humble ones. God cannot even allow men to rise in power under their own ability. He must determine to bring the powerful down in order to show that He is just. He already has tipped the system as men are rising to the top. God is not a child abuser. Be very careful with those who do not teach the full doctrines of grace. A man who disagrees with one of the five points will in some ways reason for the power of the flesh through libertarian free will. Reply Quote Notify 2232  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: August 07, 2011, 03:41:34 PM Ive always been self reflective and i take things more seriously than i should. Even in my youth i was very frustrated because i did not understand why things should be so messed up. I was always a very deep thinker and saw things where i did not have the knowledge or the maturity to express what i was thinking. I was also very shy so i would rather hold onto it rather than express it. So this is why i am given to memorization because i have a very active mind. And the reason the Psalms are so appealing to me is they offer me a private world where i can think deeply and express myself in the way i want to. This is much different than being in a group of people and not being encouraged to talk about things that are spiritual where there is a challenge. But the Psalms create in me a freedom that i would nt ordinarily experience because of my temperament and tendency to focus on the negative. The Psalms are prayers that create the world because they focus on the intricate schemes that men do not think will be accounted but in knowing how God works we know that it will be brought to the light. Most men do not take the time to think or to have the vision that is required to accomplish this faith into reality. The Psalms encourage us to have a long term view of finding Gods hand in things that seem impossible to search for unless we are drawn out in faith and are illuminated that it is so. Some of the things that i think about i do not share with anyone because at the time they are revealed to me i am not sure they are entirely correct. But the Psalms give us words that cannot be thwarted. People study these words as if it was like a comparative with other scriptures. What people do not see is the Psalms are in a conflicting relationship with the seen and the unseen. So the prayers as they are said create the promises fulfilled. The Psalmist prays with the intent to distinguish himself from the wicked man even tho the Psalmist himself deals with his own sins. But because the Psalmist calls out to God in a specific way the prayer itself is the obedience that brings about his own deliverance and forgiveness. The ifs in the prayers are answered by saying the correct prayer as the answer to the if which is the promise as amen. So these Psalms are the words used to create our future reality. I never believed in a saying a mantra that had any magic in the saying. But the Psalms teach that Gods speaking is the Psalms. So the Psalms enforce our faith because we know the words as prayers are Gods ordered words to be answered in our asking. They teach that God will answer those things that we pray according to His will. But its like a mixture or like a spell cast upon a whole society. Like the witches brew. Now there is nothing as an idea that is evil in itself. But its the mode of transportation defining what is mystical and what is real. There is a sense in which a prayer is mixed with the human desires and words with the divine will. So prayer can be measured because i believe that God acts upon us in the words that create the genuine desire rather than our way of communication as evidence of a genuine desire. So a prayer prayed in faith is a prayer of the fervency of the righteous. A person who is experienced in the art of demonic transference through spells is going to get some kind of response in the spell. The Psalms are kind of like Elijah's prayers having authority over the false gods. We can say its a war of words that thwarts the demonic activity. But this is not in the mode of an incantation but rather in focusing on God as He describes Himself in the Psalms we learn how to increase the intensity and focus on the actual victory before it becomes ours. In other words there is a gradual move toward freedom and confidence into a desire to see our prayers answered and find a new salvation. Sometimes when we are led to focus on a particular circumstance that will lead us to find something we did not know of why we were so passionate at first about  that circumstance and then we were led to another illumination that was connected but in a different direction. God always makes the desire from the illumination as light as a feather at some point and then we are motivated to move to a more exact answer with the new passion. The Psalms make us extremely focused on a particular answer while at the same time having the effect after the focus of finding a sense of wholeness and satisfaction. So we go from focusing to reality into a sense of freedom and deep longings for God. Our prayers have the effect of creating our deliverance. But at the same time they are collected in heaven where they will be unleashed in the final judgement. These prayers are for forgiveness, supplication..cursing our enemies.. and for salvation in its finality. These prayers act as a word of God that are sealed and unleashed like the seven spirits that come from the view of the Lamb. So whether we see the defeat of our enemies in this life ... we will not wast one cry because these prayers are Gods will that is distinguished between their active force in this life and the next. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2233  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: For Our Mbg on: August 07, 2011, 06:33:03 AM Got some troubles brewing. Reply Quote Notify 2234  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: August 06, 2011, 09:27:13 AM Ive got 4 chapts memorized ... this book is going to blow my mind. I will write some but am wanting to go over it more. I cant wait to get the rest. Its very difficult. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2235  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Our riches in Christ on: August 06, 2011, 09:23:14 AM May 1 - The Unfathomable Riches of Christ  This sermon is a masterpiece in my opinion.  I sat under Jeffs preaching for quite some time in my 20s and 30s... learned more about heaven than any other time in my life. Pure genuine. http://highlandbiblechurch.org/pages/sermons.html