2327	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms	on: June 26, 2011, 12:10:41 PM
Quote Totally dependent righteousness Mankind is completely depraved in and of themselves, and has no goodness apart from God, but can have a temporary righteousness through reliance on God, even before being "born again", or "regenerated", with Christ living inside the person.  For example, before the Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost, people like Job, Noah, Enoch, Daniel, Abraham, etc, were called "righteous".  This "goodness" came from trusting God and from relying on Him for the strength and direction to obey Him.  Even unbelievers can be temporarily inspired by the Spirit to perform truly "good deeds" (which do not save anyone, only Christ saves). I just saw this red meat. We believe the righteousness we possess is not intrinsically our righteousness. Before God a man who is righteous is a real man. A man who practices lawlessness is of the Devil. So how can a man who is born a sinner be righteous before God? That was the million dollar question the Apostle asked. What was the Apostles answers?... The just or righteous shall live by faith... as opposed to the works of the law. The apostle talks about a righteousness that is foreign to man. Its a righteousness that comes down out of heaven. How can a sinner obtain a righteousness that is not in his ability to earn? It must be gifted to the sinner on the basis of free grace and not any kind of payment for the sinners value. The apostle does not begin to present the sinner as growing closer to the righteousness from heaven but he places all men in a position of impossibility to obtain this gift through human agency or through human means. This righteousness from heaven cannot be earned or paid for. In fact the apostle goes a step further than mans inability to obtain it. The apostle says this righteousness comes through the will of God alone. He presents man in this question... when is a man lying? When he moves his lips.. lol.. Actually men believe a lie as the consequences of being born in sin. Their natural reaction is to not want God in all their thoughts. Man from birth is his own god. He is born in an imaginative world in which he thinks God does not exist...that God is not watching.. with the eye to judge or protect. He believes that all of his learning is truth because its an order of a philosophy that offers him returns for his efforts. The good that the natural man does is a complicated collection of methods and schemes to acquire power and wealth at the expense of other people. His philosophy is to look like he is generous but its for himself to gain more power and respect. Man creates his own laws and systems to show that he is as moral as God. Man is evil because he declares independence from God not because he is immoral. In order for man to share righteousness with Christ ...the man must be equal with God. Because Gods righteousness is not only the positive requirements to be met but the ability as God. It must meet Gods power, wealth , wisdom and strength, honor glory and praise. In other words we must measure our ability with Christ ability to take righteousness as our own in intrinsic value. If we do not then we not only lower the value of Christ but we lower the requirements of Gods law. In lowering the standard we make an imaginary man as an image bearer that is according to our own imagination. That would make the world upside down in measuring true worth. I am saying to word your statements as if we are as righteous in some way because He works through us instead of saying the we are as righteous as Christ because He gifted us with His life and work so that we look to Him for our value ... not to ourselves...we are not only cheapening our union with Christ but  cheapening the value of anything on this earth.
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2328  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Faking perfection on: June 26, 2011, 10:56:17 AM I wouldnt listen to anyone who talks as if every body deserves equal treatment and shared responsibilities in a relationship. Biblical relationships are a covenant between two people to love and cherish each other in sickness and health. Theres nothing that is worth its salt without hard work. The work is like slavery... lol. You do stuff you dont want to do ... you provide emotional... physical and spiritual support as much as they allow you to. This country has been turned upside down. Everyone one is taught they dont need to worry about the repercussions of not fulfilling their covenants to one another and at the same time do not look to the people who have worked and had the life experience as the people who know what they are talking about. Now we have the experts who get four to eight yrs of college counseling the young from the perspective of philosophy rather than seasoned experience. Some of these programs are built on putting people in counseling positions that just come out of a destructive addiction without first going through life experiences and learning the art of knowing scripture as the beginning of the fear of God. So you get this Pollyanna view of what it takes to be a real man or woman. This is why we  put importance on teaching people to think for themselves rather than giving them short solutions in a compromising way. There aint nothing weighty in this world unless its earned by hard work and life experience. Now we have the investors redistributing the wealth because they were able to gain wealth through risky investments rather than yrs of hard work. You admire a guy who has money... but dont consider that its only worth its value as long as is in stocks. ... lol... Now we can say after this last go around of redistribution that the guy is a thief. Im one of those people who are the in between generation... tendency to take the blame... i look you rite in the eye and say i worked hard all my life and i damn well deserve to be rewarded. Reply Quote Notify

2329	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Re-forming reformed theology	on: June 25, 2011, 11:21:20 AM
God loves His enemies by providing a way to keep them from destroying themselves. He not only provides the way but He actually works to change them and gives them perimeters were they only go this far in sin and no farther. God is loving in that He does not let all men fall into such anxiety, frustration and hopelessness that they could never find a sense of satisfaction in their earthly rewards. God is always good. But at the same time God must treat some of the people He loves with in a family sense. God cannot display His justice on this earth without punishing the wicked and rewarding the righteous. The problem is that there is a difference from Gods view point and our view point. What we think is just by our view of the events is not correct. We do not see as God sees. God is not a scientist. He does not study human behavior in order to understand it . lol God knows the smallest creatures on this earth in a relationship that He provides for their needs and they enjoy their purpose. God brings all of the misunderstand able opposite concepts of philosophy and theology to come together. His justice and mercy... pain and pleasure... anxiety and peace...handicap and fulfilled purpose...beauty and ugly... all together in one act. It was the cross. So that in Christ all things are yea and amen. There are no more case studies..lol. God has decreed the beginning from the end. He has declared all men guilty and deserving of instant punishment. No man has the rite to question Gods purpose in their own experience . All men are laid bare and are made silent before God. There is no hope without God intervening. We have available to us temporary relief. But at the bottom of our hearts... in the quiet of our personal experience ... we are groaning. Some of us are desperately groaning out of a sense of helplessness to depression and sorrow. Some of us are groaning from physical pain... some of us are groaning because our hopes have not been fulfilled. We all at one point cry to God with no quick response. We only have what He said to keep us going. We have no vibrant life experiencing in the moment. But in this we must cry to Him. We must weep in His presence. We must cry even tho it does not seem there is any value in our sorrowful desperation. Every day... every moment we must groan. God is not silent. He will listen. He will provide a way. The sun will come up. What is impossible for us is possible for God. Trust me... i talk from past experience     2331  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: June 24, 2011, 02:35:16 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on June 21, 2011, 01:51:29 PM Ultimately there is only One Reality.  And He is infinitely dimensional.  To the degree we are united fully with Him, is the degree to which we can express His love back to Him and to others. Still, in order to communicate better with others we might want to recognize that many people, who do not yet know Christ, will find three dimensions (referring to understanding) confusing, when they deal every day with physical dimensions normally known as the 3 dimensions of height, width and depth, plus a 4th dimension of time. The One Reality expresses Himself in whatever ways He chooses to draw us closer to Himself.  He can use the dimensions of sight and insight and hearing and intuition and all other ways in which we perceive to reveal His nature and His desires for us. It is best not to limit His dimensional relations to just three, i believe. Ive explained my dimensions .. then Kk must one up me with something about other dimensions ... what i do not know... but hes got more lol People usually take the easiest way out of things when it comes to understanding stuff that is not easily grasped. When we take the lowest common denominator we have American education... people do not know how to reason for themselves. Why ask questions and develop your own style? you got other people to tell you...lol  Thats not wise counsel thats lazy.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2332  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: June 24, 2011, 02:16:34 PM What people do not know because they do not know me in real life .. but ive been through every program there is... ive never had an addictive personality. I just quit things on a dime. not that i think smoking is bad....it could be sin.... but hey if sin is fun i dont think ... oh i will do this half way... i do it all out and enjoy it ... then confess and ... seriously ... ive learn to find all of my acceptance in His forgiveness... its just a waste of time and its sissy to be double minded.... I used to smoke cigars.. got stomach problems and do not smoke regularly... i quit cold turkey..... but i smoke one ever so often just to control myself. like 2 or 3 a yr. Ive been in the group thingy too. It was a lesson i had to learn early in my adult christian experience. You got to remember that i focused on scripture as memorization 25 yrs ago so ive been doing this religious thing for too long.  I know what its like in certain groups. Been there done that. But one thing i learned over the yrs... if it looks and smells like a sales pitch it usually is. ..and (i dont think its wrong to raise money).... This is why i put so much stock in teaching. Because if a person does not apply themselves in the christian experience to understanding the scriptures ... in my experience they are going to be taken for every thing they got. My rule is if a person does not say the rite things about doctrine then a red light goes on. I ve done this thing so much that you cant "pull the wool" over my eyes. The truth shall set you free. What truth? The one you get from other people? No its what you say and write about the scriptures. Its the understanding you have about doctrine and the correct application of that teaching. There is true teaching and false teaching. It cant be both in the same teaching. Teaching is the same thing as living. Its the consistent interpretation that does not create contradictions and the application that comes from the text itself. A person who is consistent in their lives gives themselves to good teaching. A person who is sloppy... unconcerned... only cares about doing something ...will fall into many snares.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2333  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The Federalist Papers on: June 24, 2011, 01:56:07 PM They considered that the Congress was composed of many wise and experienced men. That, being convened from different parts of the country, they brought with them and communicated to each other a variety of useful information. That, in the course of the time they passed together in inquiring into and discussing the true interests of their country, they must have acquired very accurate knowledge on that head. That they were individually interested in the public liberty and prosperity, and therefore that it was not less their inclination than their duty to recommend only such measures as, after the most mature deliberation, they really thought prudent and advisable. These and similar considerations then induced the people to rely greatly on the judgment and integrity of the Congress; and they took their advice, notwithstanding the various arts and endeavors used to deter them from it. But if the people at large had reason to confide in the men of that Congress, few of whom had been fully tried or generally known, still greater reason have they now to respect the judgment and advice of the convention, for it is well known that some of the most distinguished members of that Congress, who have been since tried and justly approved for patriotism and abilities, and who have grown old in acquiring political information, were also members of this convention, and carried into it their accumulated knowledge and experience. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2334  Forums / Break Room / Re: Dealing with Porn. on: June 24, 2011, 01:53:03 PM If anyone has read my personal rules.. i dont come on here to talk about practical stuff... just playing the devils advocate. Reply Quote Notify 2335  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: June 23, 2011, 03:46:16 PM We carry sin because it keeps us from being self confident. It gives us a sense of satisfaction that we can struggle with something and not overcome it completely but at the same time enjoy Gods smile in our struggle. We live before God as human beings who fail all the time. We face guilt, our own anger, sorrow, fear , for the purpose of living in this world as our experience of turning and finding only one answer. These negative experiences help us to keep our eyes on one source of comfort. We are buffeted on every side by not completely under the power of sin. If sin did not have power then we would not know true freedom. The fact that we cannot get away from facing that we are sinners is a blessing in disguise. Our sin leads us to grace and grace leads us to worship God knowing that we are unworthy which leads us to find all of our joy, comfort , and care in someone else. It brings us as close as possible to our substitute. Because He became sin for us... He came as close as He could to sin without sinning so that He might be the full sacrifice ... in this we experience His life in us. We experience a confidence that is not our own. This is why we can confess that we are sinners who are worthy of His displeasure for the purpose of acting out our own guilt before Him and arguing on the basis of our experience that we need Him. He encourages us to come to Him in light of our need and not the judgement we deserve. Confession is not to curb His judgement but to draw near to Him in transparency so we look for grace to fill our need. He does not teach us to provide a theological reason for our need of forgiveness but He desires that we tell Him our pain....our weakness... and our adversity as if we were more concerned for our own protection than for forgiveness. In other words we come before a Father who is not looking at what we think He is ..but He is concerned for us. Hes looking at our growth our wholeness our general disposition. He wants to create a totally new man in us. He wants us to feel free to ask based upon our lack and not to try to argue that we deserve better. Even tho we come to Him more concerned for our skin than our goodness ... He still wants to hear why we deserve what His Son accomplished for us. He wants to hear us plead on for ourselves and for others on behalf of His Son. He is more interested in our success than our need of forgiveness. In fact sometimes we can sin so bad and come to Him for more urgent needs than our personal experience. As we grow it becomes natural for us to talk to Him in a realistic way knowing that He has heard us and responded in a communication that we are growing more familiar and bold about . Remove Reply Quote Notify 2336  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Re-forming reformed theology on: June 23, 2011, 02:59:35 PM Gods love and hate is not a liquid. lol. Its addressed in relationship. God loves the righteous and hates the wicked. What does it mean to hate the wicked? It means the God does not carry on a relationship with them. The bible calls this enmity. Now i know your going to bring in a lot of different questions but lets keep it to the important things. The things that matter. If God does not respond to the wicked that is hate. Because God does not need to add evil to them ... He just lets them destroy themselves. But at the same time God hardens their hearts. He actually furthers their love of themselves and their own enjoyments so they add more judgement to their eternal punishment. The reason that we must accept a God who hates in this way is because it is to our own benefit since we cannot be the ultimate judge in this life. So if God carries out justice on some men ... since God does repay then we do not need to carry anger as if it all was for nothing that we are treated like this. Gods hate also allows us to take a long term view of our own suffering in our circumstances. It gives us acceptance that we matter very little in the choices of others. It brings us to be at peace with the fact that other people can go in a way that we do not agree and we have a long term view in a patient way that God knows what He is doing because we could not fathom His repaying in His way. So we are given strength to endure and understanding of why things happen to people over a long period of time. We do not look for quick answers and instant solutions.