2296	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The New Reality of the Natural Man	on: July 08, 2011, 10:13:26 AM
Our free exercise of our gifts in this life are the out growth of our christian view of mystery. A christian is a person who is comfortable in his own skin because he has come to understand the value of things in how he views himself as he seeks to enjoy the moment as oppose to being entangled in the things of this world. The outgrowth of our relationships is our view of all that we enjoy about other people in those things that we cannot define. We learn to be comfortable in our own skin by accepting that we do not understand all there is to know about other people. Our growth in trusting other people is tied to our spiritual understanding of accepting mystery. This is how we connect as who we are with someone who we do not need to try to prove that we are someone else. This is why our christian experience is holistically a moment by moment experience in this world in the pleasures we pursue on a level in which we find the most satisfaction because we know who we are in accepting that we are firmly established in Christ so that we are open to allowing someone else to change at their own pace. We believe that there is this mystery of activity that is going on in our comfortable enjoyment of our partner. We are looking at a spiritual reality in sharing our lives in which most change is done without our understanding. We are experiencing a communication that is pre determined to override our understanding of all the complexities of our closest relationships. We are resting on a level in which we connect with that person in the most natural way.
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2297  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: July 08, 2011, 08:59:38 AM Kk is like a iguana...he changes colors against the back drop of whatever you say and then turns to a programed response. Like he will say... we must come to the point where we acknowledge that we are powerless over the addiction. But then there is fine print we got to read. The 11 other steps. Its grace plus. But he will say the other steps are necessary in order to change. So its doing the steps to get the grace to change. But then he will say that we cannot change unless we acknowledge our powerlessness to change. And i will say then i do not need to do anything else except trust in Gods grace. Then he will say that we are not serious unless we do the steps to show we trust in Gods grace.  In the old days we used to call a spade a spade. In the old days 2 plus 2 used to equal 4. We would say if it smells like a skunk it usually is a skunk... or proving something is doing something to earn that something. So its grace plus  trying to show we want grace. Old fashion earning grace.  So he is very difficult to pin down when we compare it to historical christian definitions ... that is only taken from the exegetical study of scriptures. Another method he uses is ... he will say that the 12 steps work so why shouldnt we do them? But at the same time he will argue the reasonable explanation that these steps agree with all the different denominations. So if he is talking to a Presby then he will change the wording of the twelve steps to appease the group. He will argue they should be practiced because they work and then at the same time say they are biblical claiming that we are taking scripture out of context because we question the validity of  his arguments by comparing it to historical Calvinism. Kk is a very good salesman.     Remove Reply Quote Notify

2298  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The New Reality of the Natural Man on: July 05, 2011, 10:35:05 AM We live in our own minds of who we are. The world we live in is an image of the mind of the natural man. We live in a kind of description of the universal understanding of the weight of importance on the returns in experiencing physical things.  This is why God must define the importance of truth. Because man naturally lives in the image of the equilibrium imagination of non causes and deterministic ends. Men live with a pragmatic view of truth. Man lives in an imaginative suspension to avoid the conflict of opposing powers in order to create an image of success. But the truth is that man in his image is his own enemy. He is in his natural view self destructive. Because a universe that has no division of opposition is a universe in which man is his own end. Thus mans internal experiences end in himself... his actions... and find no significance from a cause outside of himself.     Remove Reply Quote Notify

2299  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: TT.UU.LL.II.PP.s still bloom on: July 05, 2011, 10:07:56 AM Quote from: billbennett on July 05, 2011, 09:13:46 AM Joker, I agree. God does know all about us. The remarkable thing is that he loves us anyway. If this is true, then it makes sense that God can as Ephesians states "chose us in Him before the foundation of the world". Looking at my own life, I can see how God was guiding my life even before I had come to faith in Christ. So in a sense, He knew I would be His, and could prepare me even then for what I am doing today. And yet from the second chapter of Ephesians God describes us before we were in Christ as "children of wrath", "walking according to the course of this world", "having our converstation in the lusts of the flesh" and being "dead in sins". The point He seems to make is that we were no different than the rest of lost humanity, dead in our tresspasses and sins. From this we could logically move into discussing what it means to be totally depraved. Going to see one of my grandsons play baseball in 10 year old world series this week at Gulf Shores so I may be unable to post the rest of the week. Will try to check in though. Everyone have a great day. Eph. 2 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath Bill this verse is actually distinguishing us from them in our unregenerate state. Its not saying we were seen as them as if God had not ordered our lives to show us our need and chose to save us. No in this sense we were not like them we were among them. Then the apostle says... like the rest...so the apostle was saying here that God had marked us out from eternity and he protected us and prepared us for our new birth. Even in our unregenerate experience we were not able to go in the way of sin so that we were beyond saving. Every person who God determined to be saved cannot shorten their lives by sin. God will hem them in behind and before. Why because God not only sees their thoughts but He knows them before they think them. What kind of knowledge is this? Its Gods working in second causes that brings about His will in all things. If God created men with a limit on language.. a limit of power... a limit of space then God can determine the limits of our free choices and yet no violate our freedom to choose. God speaks reality.... there is nothing that happens outside of our experience of reality. Reply Quote Notify

2300  Forums / Theology Forum / The New Reality of the Natural Man on: July 05, 2011, 08:43:05 AM Ive been thinking about this interrelationship between our five senses with the new desires. How does our spiritual desires impact our natural desires? Do we actually learn to live in this world in which we experience passion, hunger, love, hate, romantic feelings, a sense of wholeness in being satisfied with our present circumstances, fear , worry, and sorrow, in experiencing these realities in our relationships or do we form the reality in our minds as the cause rather than the inter related experience between persons? I will try to explain this as clear as i can but this is a new way for me so it may be difficult at first. Reply Quote Notify

2301  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: July 03, 2011, 12:18:42 PM Quote from: Yep on June 27, 2011, 07:20:38 PM Are you certain that salvation to God contains all three of these? Im still wit ya... got to go Remove Reply Quote Notify

2302  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The Federalist Papers on: July 03, 2011, 12:17:05 PM The Same Subject Continued: Concerning Dangers From Foreign Force and Influence For the Independent Journal. Author: John Jay To the People of the State of New York: IT IS not a new observation that the people of any country (if, like the Americans, intelligent and wellinformed) seldom adopt and steadily persevere for many years in an erroneous opinion respecting their interests. That consideration naturally tends to create great respect for the high opinion which the people of America have so long and uniformly entertained of the importance of their continuing firmly united under one federal government, vested with sufficient powers for all general and national purposes. Their interest and national interest are his focus. Not the erroneous interest. The more attentively I consider and investigate the reasons which appear to have given birth to this opinion, the more I become convinced that they are cogent and conclusive. Among the many objects to which a wise and free people find it necessary to direct their attention, that of providing for their SAFETY seems to be the first. The SAFETY of the people doubtless has relation to a great variety of circumstances and considerations, and consequently affords great latitude to those who wish to define it precisely and comprehensively. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2303  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Re-forming reformed theology on: July 03, 2011, 11:47:22 AM If God wills to save someone.. He also wills to not save another one. God does not display passive resignation. lol. God is not passive- aggressive. lol. Of course Kk likes to get cute. But nothing is real unless there is a cause and effect universe. You cannot have the existence of something from nothing. And you cannot define something as two equal and opposite forces. That is nothing. A power that is exerted that does not overcome the opposite power does not define success. We go from impossibility to possibility.  So in this discussion I am still finding that Kk can teach a contradiction and still display a spirit of hope and consolation. God is truly gracious.   Obviously there are only two ways not three. The teaching of double predestination is absolutely necessary ...for without the presence of the full teaching of one point the other 4 points crumble. Truth is contained like a string line that holds each word together. So real grace is the cause of all of the truths holding the reality of the effect of change. The truth itself is the medicine. When we speak in terms of the five points we are distinguishing our reality of grace from all others so that their methods are defined as works and not grace. Because grace overcomes sin, not the libertarian will. This is why when i write you can find consistency in my creating reality between the meta physical aspects and the physical. I write as if my experience with all of the reality defined by God is common to all men. But since i understand sovereign grace , my understanding of reality in comparison to all false views is the medicine for everyone. So in a sense my writing is cathartic. There is only one remedy ... its distinguishing between the false views of meta physics and the reality in our minds when we apply it to the human condition. We do not teach mysticism. We do not give powers to physical things as the answer. There is no water, bread, purpose on this earth, men, woman, etc who can replace the communication of grace as God has determined to give some men new life and in passing over others He has determined not to chose them. God is not a passive spectator. Reply Quote Notify

2304  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: July 03, 2011, 11:20:33 AM Ok weve got to get these in a logical sequence or we will always fall into double mindedness. The gospel is a way of thinking not an opposite of rest and activity. Rest and activity are not equal available options. The gospel is a way of life that we understand in anti intuitive thinking. The gospel first is a quiet regeneration in the unseen world and an experience of new life. The christian life is a way of blessing.  So we go from being cursed by the law to being blessed by God. We go from our alienation to God to fellow shipping with our Father. We go from being in bondage to sin and the law to being free from the law and fully accepted in Christ. Our natural life apart from God was hearing Him condemn us by the law. The law was our school master. It spoke curses into our lives. But when the law condemned us Christ came to take away the curse by hanging on a tree. So in Christ our communication is always Him speaking blessings into our lives. This is why there is so much confusion in the ot order of the words. Because people on the other side are always mixing the covenant given at mount Sinai with the covenant given to Abraham. These two covenants must never be mixed. Never! If they are mixed then Christ has died in vain. If they are mixed then there is no real resurrection to life. We might as well believe in determinism of our actions. We live on this earth to prove our worth and then we dies. lol But we know that God gave the curses not for proving that He will avenge the blood of the wicked but He encourages His own who are experiencing tribulation. We really believe that the law has no positive power to save. The law cannot speak encouragement into our lives .We must hear from our Shepherd ... we must hear His voice or we will walk in a path of cursing. We must be in Christ.  This is why our purpose in this life is not to become a great painter... musician.. actor...pastor... carpenter...teacher...etc. In Christ the air pressure has gone out of the room. We are no free in Christ to follow Him in light of every thing and everyone else opposing us. We are now free to be blessed in the mist of a cursed generation. Our relationships are not focused completely on the condition of the other person. There is no equal purposes as if our relationships were dependent on the success of others. But we only trust in one end. We only seek to glorify God. In glorifying God then we become a blessing to an object not based upon its worth! We love because God loves us! Do not let those who want to put you under their bondage bring you back under the law. You were regenerated by the Spirit .. why do you want to go back to the works of the law? Remove Reply Quote Notify

2305  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: July 03, 2011, 11:13:31 AM Ok weve got to get these in a logical sequence or we will always fall into double mindedness. The gospel is a way of thinking not an opposite of rest and activity. Rest and activity are not equal available options. The gospel is a way of life that we understand in anti intuitive thinking. The gospel first is a quiet regeneration in the unseen world and an experience of new life. The christian life is a way of blessing.  So we go from being cursed by the law to being blessed by God. We go from our alienation to God to fellow shipping with our Father. We go from being in bondage to sin and the law to being free from the law and fully accepted in Christ. Our natural life apart from God was hearing Him condemn us by the law. The law was our school master. It spoke curses into our lives. But when the law condemned us Christ came to take away the curse by hanging on a tree. So in Christ our communication is always Him speaking blessings into our lives. This is why there is so much confusion in the ot order of the words. Because people on the other side are always mixing the covenant given at mount Sinai with the covenant given to Abraham. These two covenants must never be mixed. Never! If they are mixed then Christ has died in vain. If they are mixed then there is no real resurrection to life. We might as well believe in determinism of our actions. We live on this earth to prove our worth and then we dies. lol But we know that God gave the curses not for proving that He will avenge the blood of the wicked but He encourages His own who are experiencing tribulation. We really believe that the law has no positive power to save. The law cannot speak encouragement into our lives .We must hear from our Shepherd ... we must hear His voice or we will walk in a path of cursing. We must be in Christ.  This is why our purpose in this life is not to become a great painter... musician.. actor...pastor... carpenter...teacher...etc. In Christ the air pressure has gone out of the room. We are no free in Christ to follow Him in light of every thing and everyone else opposing us. We are now free to be blessed in the mist of a cursed generation. Our relationships are not focused completely on the condition of the other person. There is no equal purposes as if our relationships were dependent on the success of others. But we only trust in one end. We only seek to glorify God. In glorifying God then we become a blessing to an object not based upon its worth! We love because God loves us! Do not let those who want to put you under their bondage bring you back under the law. You were regenerated by the Spirit .. why do you want to go back to the works of the law? Remove Reply Quote Notify

2306  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Deep calls to deep on: July 02, 2011, 09:49:33 AM The Psalmist is talking about being distant from the walls of Jerusalem and the temple worship. So he is desiring like a Deer pants for the streams of water to return to live in peace in Israel and being free to go to the Temple and worship God. He remembers how pleasant his approach to the Temple was. This also is alluding to the time when David brought the ark of the covenant into Jerusalem after destroying his enemies and there was a great crowd of people lining the streets of Jerusalem. David was following the ark and dancing in His ephod ... praising God so the people in Israel were worshiping in Davids public display of passionate worship to His King. The people were worshiping in one heart and mind with David as he led the procession to the temple. The scripture says the David enjoyed the favor of all the people. This Psalm is written for those who are suffering and not able to worship in public. Its for the missionaries who are out in a foreign land who remember their former worship in the states and long to feel and experience God in worship. Who approach the worship with praise and adoration that spills over into a fervent worship. There is a certain function in this world that was implemented by God in creation. In six days He created the world and on the seventh day He rested. So there is this distinction of days and in that there is different cultures that we experience. When we go out into the world it is like going out into the dessert. By the middle of the week we long for the courts of the Lord. The more we experience this culture of sojourn on this earth the more we will find holiness and purpose on this earth.  The Psalmist gets to the heart of the matter. Its not in how we appear in the world that we focus on. But its this way of life that focuses on the heart. We have a new identity. We do not live like the world. Our calling is much more realistic. We seek to glorify God and enjoy Him as a way of life. We live to develop a relationship to the nearness of God. The life of God actually lives in the soul of man. So we learn that our longings must be contained and fervently flamed in the order that God has created the world. This means that when we find God we find that all the events in our lives are ordered by Him to create in us a sense of wonder and mystery. We are overcome by His goodness to bless us with His gifts on a daily basis and we find in Him all that we need to enjoy all things. But at the same time our most grievous experience is when God seems distant and silent. Its not really the troubles of this world that come to us but we could endure these troubles if God would bring His holistic presence in speaking to us to strengthen our faith. But usually the troubles create in us a sense of desperation. Here the Psalmist is not running from his inward experience but He is on the one hand casting His burdens upon the Lord and on the other hand finding reasons to be comforted in his memory of Gods nearness. On the one hand the Psalmist is experiencing his anger being consumed by God and on the other hand the he is finding joy and praise in these pleasant memories about his approach to the temple. This is what i call experiencing supernatural strength in the mist of the most trying time. Its a sense of wonder and mystery.  Its finding God to be God so that our pain is dulled and His joy overcomes. The waves and breakers have swept over me ..by day the Lord directs His love...by night His song is with me ....a song of praise to our God.       Reply Quote Notify

2307  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: July 02, 2011, 09:19:10 AM Quote from: Yep on July 01, 2011, 07:12:51 PM "The pharisees "pointed directly to God" too, but they didn't recognize the fullest grace of God when He was standing in front of their faces."   I disagree with this statement. They plead to have Him killed and pointed to their God.   Define "legalism": what is it exactly to you? The reason I ask is that the very first lesson on the site regarding addictions has to deal with God's grace... A Definition of Legalism 1. Using the Mosaic covenant as though it is the covenant between you and God. 2. Attempting to be justified by one's own works. 3. Attempting to be sanctified by one's own works 4. Suggesting that our worth or worthlessness, our self-esteem and self-satisfaction or lack thereof, rest on our own works. 5. Any attempt to please God judicially, or any supposition that our sin as believers has resulted in his judicial displeasure. [Any post-salvation attempt to maintain our judicial standing before God through good works, covenant faithfulness, merit etc..] 6. Teaching that we conform ourselves to our judicial standing in Christ (righteous and perfect) by our own works. 7. Attempting to attain godliness by a systematic change of behavior 8. Obedience that does not spring from a renewed heart a. As of an unbeliever who has no renewed heart b. As of a believer who has a renewed heart but whose righteous behavior does not spring therefrom. 9. Any supposition that externally righteous acts have any value on their own, even as conduct that prepares the way for either a. A renewed heart (preparationism as regards justification), b. The softening or further renewing of an already renewed heart (preparationism as regards sanctification. Note Romans 12:2-Transformation occurs through the renewing of the mind), or c. Any other work of the Spirit. 10. Suggesting that faith is irrelevant in the accomplishment of some (or all) good works. 11. Trying to be justified by works that are created and inspired by the Holy Spirit. 12. Attempting to gain assurance of salvation solely or primarily on the basis of the sign of outward works. - Bill Baldwin Remove Reply Quote Notify

2308  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: July 01, 2011, 03:40:00 AM Ive been very busy.. will get back to this. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2309  Forums / Break Room / Re: Dealing with Porn. on: June 30, 2011, 08:59:29 AM Chris Hansen, 'To Catch a Predator' Host, Caught Cheating by Hidden Cameras by Catherine Lawson, posted Jun 30th 2011 5:30AM    Chris Hansen Oh, the irony ... It's been reported that Chris Hansen, host of 'To Catch a Predator,' the controversial 'Dateline' show that uses hidden cameras to trap would-be perverts in sting operations, has been caught cheating on his wife ... in a sting operation using hidden cameras. According to 'The Daily Mail' Hansen found himself on the receiving end of his own hidden camera tactics after the married NBC anchor was secretly filmed on an illicit date with a blonde television reporter 20 years his junior. He was the subject of a four-month long sting operation conducted by 'The National Enquirer' after he allegedly began an affair with former NBC intern Kristyn Caddell, a 30-year-old Florida journalist. http://www.aoltv.com/2011/06/30/chris-hansen-to-catch-a-predator-host-caught-cheating-by-hid/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2|74344 I will explain the moral behind trait if it is true... its classic. Reply Quote Notify

2310  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Faking perfection on: June 28, 2011, 07:50:45 PM I think people who are very disciplined in one area.. in this case the physical appearance are compensating for another weakness. I always look and observe what the hidden insecurity is. Life is really not about appearances but communicating. So we try to approach a situation in the way we observe and then we say things to get an indirect answer. Usually if its only skin deep they will turn and run. Another thing that happens is compensating for a weakness by doing the program and succeeding. So a lot of people will trust in the fact they advanced in personal disciplines because they look to the people... the method or the philosophy they learned to overcome some weakness. So they have a way of talking... not necessarily in a patriarchal security but a learned philosophy. Its kind of like being unraveled emotionally and your get put back together by a system of philosophy. The only way to become genuine is through knowing God and experiencing life.      2311  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Losing fellowship with Jesus on: June 28, 2011, 07:35:13 PM Psalm 66 16 Come and hear, all you who fear God;    let me tell you what he has done for me. 17 I cried out to him with my mouth;    his praise was on my tongue. 18 If I had cherished sin in my heart,    the Lord would not have listened; 19 but God has surely listened    and has heard my prayer. 20 Praise be to God,    who has not rejected my prayer    or withheld his love from me! This verse is a repetition of one idea overlapping another. So here he says i cried out to him with my mouth... his praise was on my tongue. This is the way these Psalms express the righteous man. Its not saying that the sin is not atoned for. The context throughout the Psalms is that a righteous man has regard for God but the wicked man does not have regard for God. He is saying that because He calls on God then God will hear His prayers. Because He praises God then God will not reject His prayers. But the wicked man does not call on God nor does the man praise God. So to regard sin is not to come to God. If speaking.. crying... praising then "regard" but God has surely listened because I called to Him is the point. No where in the psalms does it describe a righteousness as regarding sin or not regarding God. But it makes a point to describe the wicked man as the man that does not regard what God says. This is the only verse that is difficult to understand. But it teaches that if we call on God then we are going to be heard because those who have no thoughts of God do not call on God and thus get no response. Its actually teaching the opposite. Its teaching what we say to God is very important and our sin does not get in the way because we call on God.  This is consistent with the context of the rest of the Psalms. Theres another Psalm that is like this but its speaking of remembrance combined with taking care of the needs of the weak. The Psalmist always uses language in his relationship with God that test the limits. We start with the fear of God.. which is the teaching about the covenant keeping God as a way of assurance. Then we have a life of reminders ... or markers that prove God is faithful. But at the same time the Psalmist is always facing rejection... even wounds from battle that could end his life. This is why he always begins with the fear of God because it gives him an assurance that God has not rejected him. If we start with Gods covenant to us then we always start with new assurance and new confidence. This is required to grow in our faith. Its reassuring ourselves on the basis that we can always find the refuge in a covenant keeping God.  Then we build a life of faith. Its the our works in connection to these markers of assurance. So we advance and things get more trying... more adversity and more potential to be over thrown. So the Psalmist uses extreme language in the face of these extreme trials. Its a mental process that is taught to nurses and soldiers. What we think about determines whether we will succeed or fail. No one succeeds who does not have faith that will get him to go through the trial. Faith is required as a language of hope that keeps us focused on the end and not the trial. This is why the Psalmist uses this language because he is consoling himself. Blessed is he who has regard for the weak the Lord delivers him in the day of trouble. And then the psalmist remembers the goodness in these past markers and consoles himself by saying the Lord is doing good through me He has not rejected me yet. lol.   I like comparing scripture with scripture but some times this hit and miss approach we take out of context. We begin building a reason for a doctrine but its taking scripture out of context.   Reply Quote Notify 2312  Forums / Break Room / Re: Dealing with Porn. on: June 28, 2011, 02:17:16 PM  We need to be balanced in all of this. We can bring up subjects that we know nothing about or how prevalent it is .. or what law enforcement is actually doing in an undercover way and get all worked up. The point is that sinners still need grace. We obviously have not made a dent in stopping the spread of illicit sex. Its a huge problem in many households in the us. Its bigger than just trying to publicly deal with it. This problem has multifaceted reasons of why someone would participate in it .. in live chat rooms or in the porn pictures. But you even have many pastors who look at porn.  This problem is as old as the beginning of man.Its not going to go away. We do not see the behavior as just someone who is able to have normal relationships in their public life and slips up in private but we are seeing this as a way of life to escape years of being raised in the culture and not loved as a person. This is really a deep problem. The point is we are not going to be able to use the courts to overcome the yrs of depravity. Its first is a family issue. So goes the family so goes the nation. We need to have families that understand grace.  We also got to avoid just focusing on one sin. Or making it like one sin must be dealt with in order for a person to be manageable ... as if a sin determines our whole lives lol. manageable ? more like unable. lol. Jesus hung with the prostitutes and sinners. Why? because no sin was too big for Him to be offended by to the point that it was the end all. Jesus was teaching that we can be balanced in all of life and we do not need to become like who we are surrounded by. They dont impact us .. we impact them.   Reply Quote Notify 2313  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: June 28, 2011, 01:26:29 PM The sound of the gospel is not multifaceted. But it is a subject that uses anti intuitive powers to effect change. If someone who preaches the gospel is doing it correctly then he will be in a battle that is somewhat like brain washing. Every idea that we propose is like an arrow that hits something. Christian speech is equivalent to the weapons of war. We can preach a gospel of works and use concepts of grace but in reality we shoot the arrows at our own people and by the time we are done we have eliminated all the people and there is only one person standing... lol. This is why the anger in a gospel sense is in two responses. On the one hand a gospel preacher will receive anger from the self righteous because he lets the sinners off by showing them that they cannot change in themselves. He offers Christ alone as the remedy. So the self righteous are angry that the sinners who are trapped into sin are let off so easy. lol... Then you have the other problem. When you preach the pure gospel it will come across as weak and not very convicting.It will produce repentance in the art of decomposing. It will sound like your not blaming sinners in your church but your focusing on Christ. In other words your focus is not on threats or punishment but on freedom in Christ. So the sinners will be upset that you have not given them something to do. lol. This is what the gospel preacher is always confronted with. Where do we find comfort being in between two angry people? We find it in the idea of Gods sovereignty to bring the two sides together in His time. But we must know the art of blessing and cursing. Of creating and decomposing. Even tho there are two angers there is only one desire that will win. The desires of the wicked must be thwarted and the desires of the righteous will not fail. We really are in between two desires. Thats really what the Solomon incident with the baby was pointing to. We got to focus on the causes or the created illumination.     Remove Reply Quote Notify 2314  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Sinners in the hands of an angry God? on: June 27, 2011, 03:15:16 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on June 27, 2011, 03:04:35 PM Quote from: mybigGod on June 27, 2011, 02:40:10 PM Kk is not in the business of forgetting himself and giving out of his need but he will always have an excuse why so and so should not be pampered... and so in Kks mind its easy to neglect the needs of others because they dont fit the mold. If all things are equal then by god dont help the co dependent dirt bag. lol. I see you don't tire of misrepresenting me, mbG, old buddy.  K_k is incapable of forgetting himself apart from Christ, yet He is molding and shaping me in that direction.  And when He so directs, i try to give out of my surplus or need, though i'm pretty imperfect in that as in other forms of righteousness. And yes, i do believe that giving money to a practicing alcoholic or addict is not really helping them (unless the Spirit so directs, clearly).  On the other hand, taking the alcoholic / addict to lunch or dinner, so we can get to know them better and perhaps share Jesus with them, is far more helpful that just flipping them a buck (or the finger). Have any other personal criticisms i can try to straighten out for you, mbG? (I plead guilty, in advance, to all the imperfections you can name, of course, including being a "co-dependent dirt-bag", apart from Christ.  And i plead only the Blood of Christ, in defense.) Weve been disagreeing but i respect your convictions. Youve gotten a little nicer ... thanks buddy... seriously .. is there something i can change? I dont always respond to you per say ... like the last post... i think your closer to the twelve step than healing is a choice thingy. I was just trying to communicate in the lingo that everyone uses. love ya brother. I usually try to stick to the scriptures ... but drawing parallels is tough. Reply Quote Notify 2315  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The Federalist Papers on: June 27, 2011, 02:52:46 PM It is worthy of remark that not only the first, but every succeeding Congress, as well as the late convention, have invariably joined with the people in thinking that the prosperity of America depended on its Union. To preserve and perpetuate it was the great object of the people in forming that convention, and it is also the great object of the plan which the convention has advised them to adopt. With what propriety, therefore, or for what good purposes, are attempts at this particular period made by some men to depreciate the importance of the Union? Or why is it suggested that three or four confederacies would be better than one? I am persuaded in my own mind that the people have always thought right on this subject, and that their universal and uniform attachment to the cause of the Union rests on great and weighty reasons, which I shall endeavor to develop and explain in some ensuing papers. They who promote the idea of substituting a number of distinct confederacies in the room of the plan of the convention, seem clearly to foresee that the rejection of it would put the continuance of the Union in the utmost jeopardy. That certainly would be the case, and I sincerely wish that it may be as clearly foreseen by every good citizen, that whenever the dissolution of the Union arrives, America will have reason to exclaim, in the words of the poet: "FAREWELL! A LONG FAREWELL TO ALL MY GREATNESS." Remove Reply Quote Notify 2316  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Sinners in the hands of an angry God? on: June 27, 2011, 02:40:10 PM Kk is not in the business of forgetting himself and giving out of his need but he will always have an excuse why so and so should not be pampered... and so in Kks mind its easy to neglect the needs of others because they dont fit the mold. If all things are equal then by god dont help the co dependent dirt bag. lol.   Reply Quote Notify 2317  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: June 27, 2011, 02:29:33 PM Kk is teaching a process here. He is saying that God will only work when we are willing to abandon what God ask us too. Or that God is moving our wills to relinquish our addictions so that He can have more of us. But we believe that we come to God as we are. And we believe we are sinners. Kk wants us to focus on ourselves and how we have changed. He wants us to get to a level where we abandon our addictions ... then we are ready to teach others. He uses words like God moves here... God has impulses that move our free will... God removes the barriers by getting us ready to acknowledge that we are powerless to over come the addiction. In other words God cannot override our wills but He must prod us ... move us to abandon our willingness to take control of our lives. lol. Kks God is very small. Kks God is powerless unless we respond. Kk has a god that is always like a nagging wife. He has his demands that need to be met and he will play passive- aggressive until we say uncle. lol. Im sure God does not sulk but i find it hard for such a weak image to not feel something. lol.  We believe that God knows us more than we knows ourselves... thats supposed to be humorous. knows.. lol....But God is not surprised by our sin. He decreed it from all eternity. He knows our sins and weakness and reacts to them like a father. He looks at us not like a drill Sargent or a nagging wife but with pity. God knows that we cannot fathom how weak we are compared to what He knows about us. So there is nothing that we can surprise God with. God does not want our best efforts. He wants us to come to Him like He made us. He is in the business of recreating not incorporating. This is why we are not defined by how we process our lives and overcome sin. But we are defined by His covenant of love given to us. He says to us.... to come as we are.. and He will perform a work in us because He is concerned for His own name! He is working to will and to do in us on the basis of Someone else. Everything that He does to us in this relationship is on the basis of undeserved grace because He loves His Son too much to give us real ability. Every time we come to God we come empty handed and He fills it. Ok ... i am ready for Kk to jump on the other side i mean show his equality of contradiction. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2318  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: June 27, 2011, 01:52:38 PM Co dependence is depending in an absolute sense on anything outside of dependence on God. Co dependence is putting value on a person they do not possess in reality. God works in word and Spirit. Everyone is made to worship and image of the real man. So in describing truth as it is in reality we must not have equal descriptions of images. If our description of truth gives equal value to a concept it is a contradiction. This is why dependence in scripture is reducing our value system to be without any other image other than the image of God in Christ. Co dependence and real spiritual dependence cannot exist in the same relationship. This is why co dependence is a state of the mind and not caused by the interaction of peoples. If we could be free of co dependence we would need to be free of false images.lol. Obviously to not acknowledge our inability to erase all our false images is not co dependency but a contradiction. lol. And in our incomplete definition of how we imagine we are by our false image we contradict our ability in how we measure others. Because God defines reality and its to Him alone that we stand or fall. We cannot imagine dependency unless we understand what transparency is before God. This is why our quest is not to free ourselves from a bad relationship but its to eliminate all the idols we have in our lives. In eliminating the idols we are saying that we trust and seek God alone for who He is. Our attitude of humility is not in our trading a bad relationship for a healthy one. That would be more like creating reality through our standard we place on ourselves in co dependency and the standard we place on others. When we seek God for God then we learn that in ourselves are unable to have a consistent image of the real man. We gain another view of reality. Because in God all things are made rite. We see how we imagine we are as a way to judge other people by our self fulfilling checks and balances. Our definition of co dependency is as confusing as our propensity to carry false applications because of our false image. In other words without complete dependence on God we imagine a world that we can control only to find that we believe a contradiction in its strength of how we are not transparent before Him. I love the guys who get me to think. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2319  Forums / Break Room / Re: Dealing with Porn. on: June 27, 2011, 01:08:36 PM Willis i believe that everyone in this day and age are handicapped on a personal level. Ive also seen marriages where the woman is there for the man and he dominates her so that she is forced to neglect other needs in the family. Most people come together because they have hurts that both of them are understanding of the other. Some people call this a dependence that is bad but my belief is that this cookie cutter mentality on one size fits all can do more harm to some people than good. Some of the religious beliefs harbor on abuse in my opinion. Like focusing on self denial as if Christ demanded complete self denial all at once. Remember that when He told the the crowds His demands and most of them turned and left, the disciples did not say they would meet his demands of self denial... they were hopeless not destroyed.They weakened to the point of saying ... "we got no where else to go"... i take it there would be still a struggle with sin in their self denial. In other words its a little bit at a time with major set backs. The point is we are always concerned to help the person in healing not cut the arm off. Its not talking about going too far and falling adding to the problem but to turn to Christ and let Him move us in His time. I shudder at the people who offer quick solutions and instant success. I trust them about as much as i trust a dictator. But women are weaker than men in many ways. Although they dont like to think that. And they are stronger than men in other areas. I believe you always need to side with the women and children if there is a handicap situation. I mean its with the eye of positive reinforcement and slow change that brings spiritual healing. It may not happen fast enough over the entire life.  I also believe God has a way of balancing the scales. But He does is in a healing way so that He appears to be glorified not necessarily the people. It could be a marvelous change or it could be a physical disease. It could go either way. But i believe that there is an innocent party. Not all situations are both.  Just from what i observe. Reply Quote Notify 2320  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: June 27, 2011, 11:59:20 AM Kingdom mentality is always having all of our confidence in God. Its really focused on moving in one single path. We are sinners who share in weakness for the sake of feeling our need to ask God because we are unworthy. We are so familiar with our sins ... we fight the same sins... that we place no confidence in our own power. We act the part of a paper King. All the reality that we live in is Gods order to blind the minds of men and create in us a new heart. We advance by forces that cannot be seen! Without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is the substance... of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith is a gift for creators and not processors. All events in our lives are originated from the word of God. There is nothing identical in this universe. Troubles come and go... we lose strength for a season and gain strength that we cannot explain in other parts of our lives. We do not put our confidence in our own horses but in God alone. This is why we pronounce our success as a king. We are in the family of God. We are directly related through spiritual adoption to all of the patriarchs that went before us. Abraham is our father. We have access to Gods grace covenant to Abraham for those who bless us will be blessed and those who curse us will be cursed. In God all the promises are yea and amen. We only look back with a sense of boldness and stouthearted ness. Our victory is for the asking. That means that we bring our petitions every morning and wait in expectation. These are the generation of the righteous.. those who call on God. When we call on God we learn to hear Him speak and we learn to find His way in how we pray. So we advance under the banner of the King of the universe who has placed all things under His feet and He now calls us friends.  We approach the throne of grace... its at the rite hand of the Most High ... this right hand is at our right hand in all we do. In His right hand is sudden victory and judgement. We know a God who is in control of the thoughts and intents of all men. He alone authors all reality. No one can choose future reality outside of Gods pre ordained decrees. We come before a God who contains our inward experience to advance in our world. His will not only goes out from us but comes back to us through means.  We go out as unable and He rewards us with total victory because of His own name. Our past are reasons to praise Him with all of our hearts. Because we are not a product of our own choices but we experience reality because God has been faithful. We are not holding on but we see Gods hand proclaim that where we have walked He has conquered. lol. Because we live in this family and we are represented by the King who has all things placed under His feet. If we are given illuminations of His past victories then we fellowship with Him in Spirit like as if we find the most joyful rejoicing that is beyond our ability to accomplish if we are looking at our own power. Call on God and wait in expectation. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2321  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: June 27, 2011, 11:00:13 AM Two line theology is a scorn of this society. I understand the idea that we need to eat the meat and throw away the bones. But this is not a fish . lol. Its really the war of spirits. So we are not dealing with neutral ideas but ideas that are set against the knowledge of God that we must war against as if we were taking the spoils and putting into captivity the ideas that will captivate us to take us captive. lol. We must not only love the truth but argue against the false!We are more comfortable warning the person of some bad behavior rather than making the wrong teaching appear to be devilish. How did Eve fall? Not by bad desire first but by an idea that was like a spirit. It was a spiritual struggle through a philosophical idea. It was in the spirit of equality.lol Accusing God in an indirect way of wanting to with hold some valuable knowledge. Making other words than revelation have the same weight.  One little insinuation and we have the whole earth being destroyed because giving into the idea blinded the whole human race. I agree with Sproul... about Calvinism. Even if we say we are Calvinist and we oppose chance paradigms ... its not that we are Calvinist but we are Theo centric as opposed to atheist. It puts more of a premium on getting the teaching rite. Let me back up.. some ones got to be out front who has the knowledge. Some people know grace in the holistic way. Not by the facts necessarily but in the understanding that one truth is tied to another truth... the bible cannot be separated. Its all Trinitarian... the gospel cannot be confounded in the person...the apostle says I am confident that they will come to an understanding because God cannot fail. But practically speaking leadership is in a way... cathartic. I write from this position of inclusion.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2322  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Sinners in the hands of an angry God? on: June 27, 2011, 10:24:44 AM In the concept of slippery it is in the idea that Gods covenant people endure hardship on this earth for glory. In their endurance they struggle with their own corruption so that they will be encourage to turn their eyes toward heaven. There is a kind of hate on the one hand (the woe wish) and a supernatural love as the experience of Gods anger in His promise to punish the abusers ...and at the same time consuming their own coveting. I do not think that the comparison of good and evil in 73 (i think its 73) supports a kind of christian slavery as a way of life. But the endurance is much easier because of the experience of God covenant love in the single focus... our worship... and our acknowledgement that where we are weak He is strong. God gifts us with all good gifts even tho we must endure more trials than those who are self motivated and love the world structure. This Psalm is a blessing gifted to Gods people as an encouragement to experience His presence over the spiraling down due to the evils we endure in this world. The encouragement is not just in Gods promises to come to our aid in giving Himself to us in worship... but in our being illuminated that there is a coming of judgement on those who cause us to endure the immoral qualities of the rich who do not consider their moral responsibility to their fellow man as if God gifted them with riches and He is watching. lol. We must always put these Psalms in the context of their opening with the teaching of pre sup positional apologetics. Reply Quote Notify 2323  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: June 27, 2011, 09:42:17 AM Let me talk about this ot environment of double predestination. The concept of relationship in the OT was through covenant and not through human ability. If you study Romans the apostle lays this out very distinctly. We need to understand that our own culture in an institutional sense has developed through applications to the ot church that make it humanly possible for man to rule his kingdom in the environment of threats and rewards. But God established the ot church in an inclusive environment entered into by birth. In other words it wasnt the promise of obedience that gave the Jews the participation of the blessings but it was in the sign of circumcision. The children where to young to be part of the covenant community by oaths. So they were born into the community of faith as given the blessings through grace before they were able to acknowledge their allegiance. This was a community that enjoyed prosperity and unity through supernatural means. If you study their view of participation you will find that the city gates were the analogy of inclusiveness that included them in the blessings. This is why they believed that the city gates opened as avenues of grace. So who was the gate? The gate was the coming Redeemer. And what was the gate? The gate was His righteousness alone! This was very significant because it taught that God initiated the relationship with His chosen people to be unified both the blessed and cursed as they were brought together to share in the blessings out of Gods goodness.. ot concept of grace... and unfailing love... ot concept of Gods sovereign gifts. They were not included because they made an oath or they were better than the nations but because God promised to take care of them by His unfailing love. So they were a nation that was ruled by promises and not threats! God decided to choose a people for Himself to show the nations His own goodness. Salvation was not even in the daily sacrifices or the peoples good will but in God alone! This is why they enjoyed the benefits of Gods good gifts as being close to some who practiced heathenism. God blessed His chosen people to the point they were self confident and strayed from God by going after other gods they created to unify in their sexual practices. On the other hand God patiently endure their dislike for the blood sacrifices and the Torah. The salvation of God has always been anti intuitive to institutional development. In Gods institution the leaders are the servants. The leaders are Shepherds who meet the needs of the sheep in showing that Gods goodness follows His blessings. lol. The leaders do not threaten through force but act in a way that is an example for all to follow. Gods church is a group of people chosen by God who come together to share all good gifts. God will not let men rule but He establishes the teaching as the means of ruling through Christ over His church. The teaching is the power of salvation and not the human instruments. We are taught to do things that are anti intuitive of what we think we are required to do because God has established only one way to obtain unity. The teaching. Reply Quote Notify 2324  Forums / Current Events / Re: Odd News Stories .... on: June 27, 2011, 04:17:23 AM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2008347/Test-tube-burger-coming-soon-Lab-grown-meat-needed-feed-world.html Remove Reply Quote Notify 2325  Forums / Break Room / Re: Dealing with Porn. on: June 26, 2011, 06:41:49 PM At the same time i believe there is a place to blow off some steam. There are techniques the bible teaches. Marriage is one but the partners are individual Christians. I believe that the opposite kinds of personalities are the best because they complement each other. I do not believe that emotional stability is predominately from communication within the marriage but its how deep the spiritual convictions are in each individual. In the old days people would go to the missionary field and be separated for long periods and still remain faithful. Its about personal disciplines of the christian experience.   I believe that a person cannot be the full help in a marriage unless they learn how to be transparent before God. Most of the emotional stability is brought into the marriage and not drained from the marriage. The only way is to experience personal freedom from learning grace. The best marriages are not really focused inward but are a place where the family learns to exercise their spiritual gifts. All of life is circular in this way. We learn how to encourage others by communicating the gifts we have in community. This is because God is a covenant keeping God. He gives us all of the stability we need through word and spirit and we experience freedom as a person when we express our gifts to others. In return He gifts us with more spiritual gifts as we exercise our gifts. He simplifies this by telling us the goal of life is to glorify Him by enjoying Him forever. If we cannot enjoy God then at some point we are not going to be free to encourage others. This is the holistic purpose of marriage. Now if what i said is matured in the marriage then the human side ... then the people can feel free to be human and enjoy cutting up. But if its focused on the prohibition then everyone will be judgmental and exclusive.