2491	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine	on: May 18, 2011, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: THOR on May 18, 2011, 12:16:16 PM Legalism was not the Galatian danger! That is not even close. Beside poor reading, that conclusion can only be a result of an anti-Semitic attitude coupled with Reform theology which denies the possibility of losing salvation by looking to something else for salvation other than Christ's death on the cross. In fact this is why Paul was so alarmed with Peter and the Galatians. The Galatians forgot that they were saved by faith in Christ crucified and instead turned aside to circumcision as the final reason. Unless they returned to faith only in Christ they would be lost and Paul was angry with Peter for giving them that impression by his refusal to fellowship with them when other Jews can to town. The stakes were being saved, vs, being lost. Obeying God’s Commandments was not the issue. Circumcision was not a commandment from God for any Gentile convert. It's nowhere in the OT. That was a creation of Maccabean Jews. Paul wanted Gentiles to always obey God’s Word. Just read his epistles. Thor Salvation for the Jew was more than a matter of faith. Faith is simply trusting in something. Just because we exercise faith does not mean its saving faith. We exercise human faith all the time. Even the non jew exercised faith in their idols.  What distinguished Gods chosen people was their teaching that was passed down from Adam. It was the teaching about Elohim. And i do not understand your thinking about circumcision. Circumcision was a ritual that brought them into a special relationship as a nation with Jehovah. This was a sign of the covenant that God made with Abraham. God did not promise universal access to saving faith. But He gave the oracles to a Nation. In fact the NT is about how these chosen people took for granted their sign of the covenant. The whole point of the gospel going out to the ends of the earth was because the Jews who were Gods chosen people were unfaithful to the covenant. God destroyed the city of Jerusalem and the gospel was spread to the gentile. So we can say their faith was distinct from the nations because God appeared to Abram and chose His descendents as recipients of salvation. Look at the account. Paul was not only dealing with the act of circumcision. I mean all the apostles were circumcised. He even counseled Timothy to be circumcised in order to prevent problems from arising in the early church. The problem was they want to go back to the old covenant and demand that the new covenant members practice the ceremonial laws. Circumcision was like a code word for the whole old covenant standards. The new covenant was preached from the day of Pentecost that repentance would be preached in the name of Christ. This meant that salvation was by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Even the nt repentance for salvation was different. Because Christ had actually lived a life that met the requirements of the law so that all the ot laws were fulfilled in Christ. Instead of the ceremonial requirements being a matter of obedience now to obey is to trust in Christ alone. Paul says that we have an obligation but it is not to the live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Which is to turn to Christ and give Him our sin. Trust in His work alone as the only remedy for our sins. They no longer had to do the ritual in order to be obedient. Faith has two sides... one is apprehending what Christ has done with believing and the other is exercised believing or trusting in His work alone. When we exercise our faith we give Him glory and we praise Him for His accomplished work of our redemption. We obey by trusting in His finished work alone. Paul was telling the jewish believers they did not need to practice the ceremonial laws in order to show they were saved. Obviously if the ot covenant member of Israel did not participate in the sacrificial system then he would be disobedient to the covenant. But the sacrificial system did not save that person.He needed a circumcision of the heart. But the out ward performance was the least proof of him possessing saving faith. Now the gospel is very simple . What brings a person into the true Church? Is it the sacraments? No! Even if we placed our faith in the sacraments we still would be as dead as a non church member. But Christ alone through justification by faith gives us acceptance into the covenant community as faithful members. If there is any human performance in obtaining and keeping salvation then the covenant is void. This is why the apostle says after beginning with the Spirit are you now trying to obtain your goal through human effort? Covenant obedience is our exercising our faith and putting our as an evidence that we have been given a new nature and trusting that Christ alone is our only hope of salvation.
Remove Reply Quote Notify

2492  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Annihilationism : Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield on: May 18, 2011, 11:11:10 AM IV. ANNIHILATIONISM PROPER Already, however, in speaking of extinction we are passing beyond the limits of "conditionalism" pure and simple and entering the region of annihilationism proper. Whether we think of this extinction as the result of the punishment or as the gradual dying out of the personality under the enfeebling effects of sin, we are no longer looking at the soul as naturally mortal and requiring a new gift of grace to keep it in existence, but as naturally immortal and suffering destruction at the hands of an inimical power. And this becomes even more apparent when the assumed mortalism of the soul is grounded not in its nature but in its sinfulness; so that the theory deals not with souls as such, but with sinful souls, and it is a question of salvation by a gift of grace to everlasting life or of being left to the disintegrating effects of sin. The point of distinction between theories of this class and "conditionalism" is that these theories with more or less consistency or heartiness recognize what is called the "natural immortality of the soul," and are not tempted therefore to think of the soul as by nature passing out of being at death (or at any time), and yet teach that the actual punishment inflicted upon or suffered by the wicked results in extinction of being. They may differ among themselves, as to the time when this extinction takes place - whether at death, or at the general judgment - or as to the more or less extended or intense punishment accorded to the varying guilt of each soul. They may differ also as to the means by which the annihilation of the wicked soul is accomplished - whether by a mere act of divine power, cutting off the sinful life, or by the destructive fury of the punishment inflicted, or by the gradual enervating and sapping working of sin itself on the personality. They retain their common character as theories of annihilation proper so long as they conceive the extinction of the soul as an effect wrought on it to which it succumbs, rather than as the natural exit of the soul from a life which could be continued to it only by some operation upon it raising it to a higher than its natural potency. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2493  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: May 18, 2011, 09:24:27 AM The Danger of Legalism in Reformed Circles Bill Baldwin-9-25-97 I knew a pastor who was frequently accused of legalism. He laughed off the charge and offered a definition of legalism that didn't implicate him. What a tragedy. And yet how typical of the Reformed community today. Charged with legalism again and again, we fail to investigate the charge. "We're just being precise and serious about the call to good works," we say. And who but an antinomian-one who believes God's grace does away with any call to good works-would object to that? This is a serious call to rethink that attitude and re-discover the Reformational truth, the Scriptural truth, that we can offer nothing to God but must by faith receive everything from his hand. In particular, this is a plea to Reformed preachers to understand that the gospel is the power of God to salvation. The Law is impotent. And that doesn't just mean impotent with regard to justification. Paul died to the Law that he might live by faith in the Son of God. So must we. So must our congregations. When Paul wants the Galatians to understand the sinfulness of legalism, he takes them to the Law so they may understand its nature and their freedom from it. When he wants the Corinthians to understand the sinfulness of antinomianism, he doesn't take them to the Law. That's what a legalist (like one of the Galatians) would do. That's also what too many in the Reformed church would do. Paul does something entirely different: He takes them to Christ, the power and wisdom of God, and to the message of the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18-2:5). He pleads with them on the basis of their new identity in Christ to purge out the old leaven of sin (5:1-8) and to flee adultery and fornication since that would join Christ to a harlot (6:15ff.). And he over and over encourages them not to abuse their freedom by sinning or causing one another to stumble (6:12-14; 8:1-13; 10:23-32). He urges them to love one another (ch. 13) and to believe and hope in the resurrection at the last day (ch. 15). What modern Reformed theologian would pursue an antinomian this way? Would we not rather beat him into submission with the Law and shape him up by that method? Even now, thinking about this, we are squeamish and reluctant to go "too far" in understanding our freedom from the Law. To say we are "no longer slaves" to the Law makes us uncomfortable, even though the sentiment is taken directly from Paul (Galatians 4:7). "What if we take that concept too far?" we whimper. And so we take it not nearly far enough. It is well and good for Paul to use such radical language; we must be more prudent. If we actually followed that radical language, and preached it with the sort of fervor that attends Paul's mighty words, what would happen? Wouldn't the people of God overreact and sin that grace may increase? Thus we cheat one another of the full declaration of God's grace for the same reason the Catholic church denied justification by faith alone and suggested that assurance of salvation wasn't a good thing either: If you already know you're saved-and that apart from your effort-what incentive is there to work? We deny this reasoning with respect to justification and smuggle it in the back door as a goad to sanctification. We might as well go back to Rome. To compound the problem, legalism is a sin almost no one admits to committing. I have observed this truth, at times with amazement. Remember the pastor mentioned in the first paragraph. He was so used to being accused of legalism that he had a definition of legalism always ready. As soon as he was accused, he recited his definition. Needless to say, by his definition he was not a legalist. It never occurred to him to ask whether the constant accusations had merit. In a similar vein I once watched two pastors agreeing that legalism was a common accusation from those who heard their sermons. The shared assumption was that they weren't legalistic, so it mystified them that this charge should so frequently arise. And when a pastor preaches against legalism, he will almost certainly ruffle feathers in a Reformed congregation. "It sounds as though you're accusing us of legalism," is the common, wounded reply. Indeed. Yet the pastor also accuses his congregation of antinomianism, pleading with them not to exploit the grace of God by relaxing their vigilance against sin. This directive is always warmly received. And it is genuinely received. The Reformed hearer is not saying, "Preach it brother! The person sitting next to me needs to hear it!" No, he sits there realizing he needs to hear this. He is convicted of his sin and seeks afresh the power of God's Spirit to turn him from it. It's as though we're always willing to admit we've broken the Law, but never that we've become re-enslaved to it. And this is particularly troublesome. In the light of Paul's teaching, legalism is the worse sin. Compare his reaction to the Galatians (legalists) and the Corinthians (antinomians). With the Corinthians he is quite upset, sarcastic even. But still, he calls them "saints" and thanks God for them in his first breath (1 Corinthians 1:1-6). To the Galatians he wishes grace and peace and then immediately takes them to task in the strongest possible language: "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel" (Galatians 1:6). He believes the Galatians are in much graver danger and therefore in need of the stronger rebuke. We wrongly think the answer lies in some sort of "balance." But balance between what-antinomianism and legalism? God forbid! Surely we can arrive at a better solution than becoming antinomians with legalist tendencies or legalists with hidden antinomianisms. A balance between grace and works, perhaps? If we emphasize works too much, people won't realize the importance of grace. But if we over-emphasize grace, there'll be no incentive to work. Again, surely we can find a better solution. Bear with me in a little foolishness when I say that perhaps the first step is admitting there's a problem. 12-step programs and support groups are far from my cup of tea. But it might be worth your while to look in the mirror and take a deep breath and actually say it. My name is Bill and I have a problem with legalism. If you can't admit this, the problem is deeply rooted. Think about it: Which is more likely? 1) Of the two major categories of sin, legalism and antinomianism, your sins are only in one? 2) Your problem with legalism is demonstrated by your inability to see you have a problem. If this ruffles your feathers, ask yourself why. Have you been vigilant against legalism? Have you been rooting it out by faith and the gospel at every opportunity? When was the last time you confessed your legalism to God? When was the last time you thought of yourself as "free from the Law" without adding an entire list of things that phrase doesn't mean (with the result that you spend almost no time thinking about what it does)? What biblical steps have you taken to rid yourself of legalism (and how do you know they're biblical)? If you've never given much attention to these questions and this problem, is it because you're really not very legalistic? Think sanely for a moment: how likely is that? How likely is it that in an area where you haven't been vigilant, sin has nevertheless failed to seize the opportunity and creep in? A Reformed article I read a year ago spoke, in passing, of the great errors of our time, mentioning Arminianism, Dispensationalism, and antinomianism by name. It didn't mention legalism. Is it even possible that this is because there isn't much of a problem with legalism today? On the contrary, I believe this omission represents a dangerous blind spot shared by the majority of Reformed Christians. The Reformed church today barely talks about legalism. All of our efforts are directed toward stamping out antinomianism. Again, is it even possible that with such a posture on our part, legalism has failed to creep in? I think not. Wake up and smell the Galatian danger! Identify where the legalism has come in. And act quickly and decisively against it by promoting a right understanding of the gospel and thus proclaiming our freedom from the Law. When we can do this without squeamishness but rather with the vigor and boldness of Paul, then we will by grace have cast off our shackles and become God's freemen again. I say all this as a Pastor, almost by way of apology, knowing I have not been as bold as I should be in declaring my congregation's freedom from the Law. My heart thrills to read Paul's radical language. But I fear that if I use such language I will be accused of antinomianism. Too often I chicken out. I also need to repent of legalism and to root it out at its first appearance. To that end I have provided a definition of legalism below that will, I hope, make it easier to identify the danger. But beware! Do not become legalistic in your rooting out of legalism. Merely identifying legalism gives you no power to combat it. That comes from faith alone, and, hence, from the preaching of Christ, the use of the sacraments, and prayer. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2494  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 17, 2011, 04:03:54 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 17, 2011, 02:47:19 PM mbG:  "I have addictions but i experience complete freedom. Why? Because we must preach the gospel...we must drench our eyes in the salve of the gospel.... we must climb the mountain as sinners. The problem with the spies was they did not climb the mountain so they presumed that it was an in the way to Gods success. lol... They were looking with the wrong vision. Without faith it is impossible to please God... although they may have been overcome with sorrow from weak faith." K_k:  We can have what we call "vision" but it may not yet carry the power of God.  So we may see what we need to do but not yet be able to do it.  We may do what we don't want to do.  We do not trust and depend on Christ enough in that area of our lives which exhibits an addiction.  When the complete vision of our powerlessness apart from Him includes our reliance on Him to free us, then the compulsion to use can be lifted, for the credit/glory goes to Him alone. Without faith it is impossible to please God, and that state leaves us vacillating between wanting to do good and not being able to do it, or wanting to refrain from relative evil but doing it anyway.  So Paul gives us the Answer, which is a greater vision of the power of Christ, in us. "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.  For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.  Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. "I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.  For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.  O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?  I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Romans 7:17-25 K_k:  When the "vision" includes full deliverance, by God alone, then that area of self-dependence and self-reliance is released, and other addictions may be addressed.  But even in pre-Believers there must be faith that God can and will free us from our self-imposed bondages, a faith can only come from Him.  And that faith "is the substance of the things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" with human eyes, but is seen with the "eyes of the Spirit".  For we are beginning to see His vision for our lives (although it is but weakly and incompletely). Kk says that he  has learned not to practice certain sins. But in looking at life like this.. which i remind you only has a 5 percent success rate ... Kk is trading one sin for the sin of pride. If Kk did not practice one sin then what about the other 12000 since he is also jewish. lol. So Kk is proud that he is not a drunk or has not slept around in the past on his wife but Kk practices some sins. Even if they are the small ones the good looking kk does not get a pass. Kk may not be a drunk but he hasnt stoned himself for the way he interprets scripture. In fact if you look in the bible the big sins are the ones that lead people astray by teaching. The sin of pleasing man is what the apostle condemned by cursing the fools that get the gospel wrong. These are the guys who join the fraternity.Although kk is not a full fledged heretic. But sin is always as the number of our hairs. Sin is in our members. We are corrupted so that if we were to stand before God who is most holy... in our  self confidence.... not only would we look like a beast but we would be laughed at and mocked by thinking we had clothes on but we were completely bare in His presence. If He held kks small addictions against him kk would be punished eternally. To even think we could please God by our getting in a position to quite a behavior is to look at the acceptance of His Son and spit in His face. Not only are we unable to procure our own acceptance but we are unable to please God by our arguing that we have gotten to a place we are ready to quit. God doesnt take our achieving humility as acceptable to Him.If we are sinners then we sin in deed and in not meeting the standard. If we are want to be accepted on the basis of our proving humility then we must be like Christ. Who was the most perfect God man and who voluntarily humbled Himself ... yet had no need to show humility but for undeserved addicted sinners.Kk your achievements are Christ like.lol     Reply Quote Notify

2495  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: May 17, 2011, 03:10:29 PM We must acknowledge that God is free to create in us a new heart by His time table. We must be more confident in God than we are about our weaknesses. The devilish disposition is a self taught and natural response to feeling comfortable in our own confidence. This is why we are reminded that God is greater than any other being in the universe. God is Most High. There is no other place to Go. We acknowledge who God is in order to draw our confidence in God and not in our flesh. God wants us to seek Him through His description of who He is so that we will learn to appeal to God in light of what we are struggling with. God loves us in a condescending way through teaching us that He answers every problem we have by His substitution answering our need! The teaching is the level path we walk on. We must find all of our comfort in His promises and gifts to us. We must understand that this relationship began through His unfailing love. So whenever we feel desperate and discouraged we have the only sturdy relationship to uphold us. Its a relationship we find in the teaching that God is our Father who loves us in an unfailing way. If He cannot fail us then all of our confidence in His promises are gifts to us because of His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. We have no confidence in ourselves. Our confidence is in our appealing to and relying on His unfailing love. We are reminded when we worship God that we come to extol a Father who gives us more than we could ask. He does this because He encourages us to trust in Him by His gifts to us.  These gifts are given to us because He is faithful. For we are able because He makes us able. God creates in us a transparency by gifting us with spiritual and physical gifts that are above what we thought we needed. His love and faithfulness follow us. His goodness makes us more dependent upon Him. We approach our Father because He alone will lift us up.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2496  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: May 17, 2011, 02:50:19 PM We walk like we have been taught. We are led along by Word and Spirit. That means that we are defined by our understanding of who we are by our weaknesses. Our understanding of sin is how we live a life of repentance. No man can produce true righteousness by his repentant attitude toward sin. He must acknowledge that if God were to hold sin against him then who could stand? So in the understanding of a life of repentance we find our inability to stand before God in our denying ourselves. We must acknowledge our bankruptcy in order to have the attitude of humility. This is why sin is not an act as a single motif but its a necessary reminder of who we are and our need for God. We sin because we are sinners. We are corrupted in every part. The reality of sin is not something we are taught as believers but its a pre disposition that we are sinners. This is why sin does not define our level of enjoyment of forgiveness... closeness to God or our receiving blame as if we depended on our need to know we are sinners.    But we enjoy grace in light of our understanding of our sin. When we look at our sin and we continue to give into sin it produces in us a need for grace and this grace gives us the desire to seek God in a more transparent way. By transparency we find freedom in light of our coming to God without hiding our own weakness. We want to stand before God who sees us as He describes and not  whether we make up a god we can be accepted by. We want God to be most free so that we can produce more confidence that He is able. Satan is the teacher of self repentance. He wants us to think that we can approach God if we leave a sin. He wants us to wait until we hand over a new leaf in order to be confident that God will listen to us. He knows if he can get us to make deals with God then we will never come to God because we will never uphold our end of the deals. Satan wants to separate us from God by our sins. He is trying to convince us that we need to learn that we are sinners by our feelings of guilt... shame and fear. He wants to create in us a spirit of fear... of guilt.. and shame. Satan is the great accuser. He keeps us from focusing on Gods word so that we focus on ourselves and our sins.    Remove Reply Quote Notify

2497  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: May 17, 2011, 11:36:27 AM We must understand that encouragement is Gods method of communication. God gives what He demands. The only other method is through anger by fulfilling lust. The communications of these two realities are only separated by grace. Our desire to glorify God comes in relationship as we receive our freedom through our enjoyment of Him. This is a single path in life in our adopted rein. This means that men are controlled by their lust as the payment for their worthy self image. Men do good things in order to demand payment in lusting for worth. This is why Christ condemned the Pharisees. Because they used their power to fulfill their lust for more advancement. A man who demands payment as he works out his way of getting forgiveness or obtaining something from God will not stop until he has destroyed every one in his way. Lust is in the desire to find fault with other people in order to teach them a lesson. Wanting to do good is always the carrot that cannot be caught. This is the spirit of the anti christ. The man of grace does not have a need to do something in order to be accepted of God. Because this man has a new desire. So there is a new principle of doing good. This principle is a super natural desire to please Christ alone. It is a totally new way of thinking. A man who is still in his sins has this stigma of lust in his own mind. He cannot avoid the motives from his lust. He must fulfill them even if it is for a righteous cause. This is why God must work through weakness and not through a mans strengths. Because God must be the one who is all in all. So this completely changes a mans direction in this life. This is what the apostle says about the law. He says that when the law revived the apostle died. That means that the Spirit freed the apostle from himself. The apostle was an encourager. Because he was given the ability to avoid this lust for control. He saw that the law only brought death. And when this law revived in him he wanted to sin more. The law worked with the apostles lust for power to destroy and thats why he ravaged the church. But when the apostle was regenerated he lost his lust for acceptance through the law. So now he gave up his lust for demands. The apostle experienced total freedom from his former lust. When a person is confused about the gospel then in some ways he gives into this lust for power. But this is a struggle and not a dependence upon the law. If a person who is religious does not experience the new desires in the pleasure of this new relationship then they live for their lust for their demands to be met. This is what the apostle was talking about when he was teaching about the sincere milk of the word. James says that all fights come from lust which war against the soul. The most learned art of this lust is in religious fanaticism. The self righteous live to obey the law to fulfill their lust and they will not stop until everyone lives according to their law. The desire to destroy their neighbor is in their lust to advance the good. This is why we must live in the full understanding of our identity.     Remove Reply Quote Notify

2498  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: May 17, 2011, 10:36:25 AM Angels are directly involved in world events. But angels are Gods messengers to comfort Gods people. Angels are our servants. They do not understand the great advantage we have as sinners in living with such depravity and yet having so much power. But they do Gods will in heaven and earth. There is communications going on between angels and God all the time. God judged the nations in behalf of Israel through the angels who carried out the law of God on the earth against those who are guilty of transgressing the law who do not stand in Christ redemption. The angels are the mediators of addressing these judgements on behalf of the saints! When an angel is sent out by the word of God then it is for world events. Angels are the messengers who accompany men to eternal perdition. They stand at the door of eternity and unleash the neurosis on a dieing man who has a lot of power. Listen ... angels chase men in their sins in an extra ordinary way to avenge the helpless! An angel cannot be resisted in his meditatory way on behalf of Gods saving word. Did you know that David prayed for the intervention of angels in his advancement in war? The glory of God is the spiritual advancement of Gods kingdom on this earth. It is heaven being accomplished on this earth.  The angels are not only protecting us from the forces of the Devil but they are the means by which our prayers advance in how God works through our prayers. There are numerous angels who attend us for spiritual comfort and intellectual conversion. These angels are the messengers of divine power and illumination. God is a God of order. He has created beings in the heavens who create reality. These beings who surround the throne of God have intelligence that we could never attain. Their intelligence is the means by which we receive this flow of divine creativity. In other words God searches a matter in the most intelligent way beyond our ability to conceive and He designs His will to be carried out in the most organized way. We are surrounded by these all intelligent realities as the motif for Gods direct intervention in our most trying hour. Our fight is not local but international. These angels are as fast as an appearance in many places in minutes. These angels are involved in all the multitude of schemes that men can destroy with and they advance against the principalities and powers in the high places. We bring our request before God and this is our high level of experiencing salvation.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2499  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: May 17, 2011, 09:49:53 AM When you curse any form of imperialism.. it is for national theft of the poor. Every evil that we experience is in some ways related to the world we live in. Our only evil of intention is to deny Christ. This is our inheritance as believers. We own all that Christ has placed under His feet. Our rewards are future because we resisted because of Christ resistance in the garden. There in that garden He had cries of agony and He was heard because death did not gain the victory over Him. In other words Christ resisted to bring eternal consequences to the wicked and eternal life... quality of life to His saints! This is why we must position ourselves in light of our own tribulations like those who were martyred for the gospel. Because they resisted to the death. Their confession was on their lips as the accumulation of their entire lives on this earth as their future rewards. Our resistance in this life will prove to mark out our position in the next life. This is why God says ... "Resist the devil and he will flee from you." How did Christ resist the Devil? By the word of God alone! So our resistance is in our own protection.  The word is like a seed the takes root in the soil of our souls. It grows as our own identity. The most personal resistance is our confessional artistic ability in the use of the word as our personal defender. The word of God is the means which all the history of every generation has its beginning and end. Not only is the the production of life and death but it also determines the quality of every life. So the word of God speaks reality as the future event. We wait and hope on His word because it is a saving word! But we resist through His illuminations through His counsel unto the destruction of every power that oppresses and destroys. This is why we not only rejoice in Him and His word alone but we reject in defiance the worlds systems. Cursing is giving Him the rite to avenge our adversaries. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2500  Forums / Theology Forum / Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: May 17, 2011, 09:27:56 AM Transparency is most experienced in our approach to God. It is a holistic understanding of our purpose in this life. In learning how to approach God in prayer we experience a transparent self. It is the art of conversion in the mind that brings a man to the need for spiritual convictions. These convictions are the motive paradigms to seek this relationship with God as being in our Fathers presence. Transparency and acceptance are the forms in which we deepen these gospel convictions. In transparency we experience the real self or the psychology of the inner man. From this relational communication the life of God flows out through our new conversion as an evangelical gift to the world. In this section i will talk about this reality. Reply Quote Notify

2501  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Annihilationism : Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield on: May 17, 2011, 09:11:42 AM III. CONDITIONAL IMMORTALITY The class of theories to which the designation of "conditional immortality" is most properly applicable, agree with the theories of pure mortalism in teaching the natural mortality of man in his entirety, but separate from them in maintaining that this mortal may, and in many cases does, put on immortality. Immortality in their view is a gift of God, conferred on those who have entered into living communion with Him. Many theorists of this class adopt frankly the materialistic doctrine of the soul, and deny that it is a distinct entity; they therefore teach that the soul necessarily dies with the body, and identify life beyond death with the resurrection, conceived as essentially a recreation of the entire man. Whether all men are subjects of this recreative resurrection is a mooted question among themselves. Some deny it, and affirm therefore that the wicked perish finally at death, the children of God alone attaining to resurrection. The greater part, however, teach a resurrection for all, and a "second death," which is annihilation, for the wicked (e.g. Jacob Blain, "Death not Life," Buffalo, 1857, pp. 39-42; Aaron Ellis and Thomas Read, "Bible versus Tradition," New York, 1853, pp. 13-121; George Storrs, "Six Sermons," New York, 1856, pp. 29 ft.; Zenas Campbell, "The Age of Gospel Light," Hartford, 1854). There are many, on the other hand, who recognize that the soul is a spiritual entity, disparate to, though conjoined in personal union with, the body. In their view, however, ordinarily at least, the soul requires the body either for its existence, or certainly for its activity. C. F. Hudson, for example ("Debt and Grace," New York, 1861, pp. 263-264), teaches that the soul lies unconscious, or at least inactive, from death to the resurrection; then the just rise to an ecstasy of bliss; the unjust, however, start up at the voice of God to become extinct in the very act. Most, perhaps, prolong the second life of the wicked for the purpose of the infliction of their merited punishment; and some make their extinction a protracted process (e.g. H. L. Hastings, "Retribution or the Doom of the Ungodly," Providence, 1861, pp. 77, 153; cf. Horace Bushnell, "Forgiveness and Law," New York, 1874, p. 147, notes 5 and 6; James Martineau, "A Study of Religion," Oxford, 11888, p. 114). For further discussion of the theory of conditional immortality, see "Immortality." Remove Reply Quote Notify

Reply Quote Notify

2503  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: May 17, 2011, 05:14:29 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 16, 2011, 01:29:25 PM The topic "taking heaven by force" doesn't seem very realistic or accurate spiritually.  It would be more like submitting, without being forced, to Heaven's desire to take me (even me....). "From the days of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force."  Matthew 11:12 I don't think Jesus wants us to be violent and cause the Kingdom to suffer.  That's not the example He demonstrated or taught. Your bible exegesis amazes me.... lol....am i being water boarded? Remove Reply Quote Notify

2504	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Galatians Commentary .... Martin Luther	on: May 17, 2011, 04:46:38 AM
Men Should Not Speculate About the Nature of God The Apostle adds to the salutation the words, “and from our Lord Jesus Christ.” Was it not enough to say, “from God the Father”? It is a principle of the Bible that we are not to inquire curiously into the nature of God. “There shall no man see me, and live,” Exodus 33:20. All who trust in their own merits to save them disregard this principle and lose sight of the Mediator, Jesus Christ. True Christian theology does not inquire into the nature of God, but into God’s purpose and will in Christ, whom God incorporated in our flesh to live and to die for our sins. There is nothing more dangerous than to speculate about the incomprehensible power, wisdom, and majesty of God when the conscience is in turmoil over sin. To do so is to lose God altogether because God becomes intolerable when we seek to measure and to comprehend His infinite majesty. We are to seek God as Paul tells us in I Corinthians 1:23, 24: “We preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness; but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.” Begin with Christ. He came down to earth, lived among men, suffered, was crucified, and then He died, standing clearly before us, so that our hearts and eyes may fasten upon Him. Thus we shall be kept from climbing into heaven in a curious and futile search after the nature of God. If you ask how God may be found, who justifies sinners, know that there is no other God besides this man Christ Jesus. Embrace Him, and forget about the nature of God. But these fanatics who exclude our Mediator in their dealings with God, do not believe me. Did not Christ Himself say: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me”? Without Christ 16there is no access to the Father, but futile rambling; no truth, but hypocrisy; no life, but eternal death. When you argue about the nature of God apart from the question of justification, you may be as profound as you like. But when you deal with conscience and with righteousness over against the law, sin, death, and the devil, you must close your mind to all inquiries into the nature of God, and concentrate upon Jesus Christ, who says, “Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Doing this, you will recognize the power, and majesty condescending to your condition according to Paul’s statement to the Colossians, “In Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge,” and, “In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” Paul in wishing grace and peace not alone from God the Father, but also from Jesus Christ, wants to warn us against the curious incursions into the nature of God. We are to hear Christ, who has been appointed by the Father as our divine Teacher.
2509  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 15, 2011, 02:40:31 PM This portion of scripture was read this morning and i could not pass it up without commenting on it. This is the normal prophet utterance of the OT. These prophets were assigned to not just teach a truth but they were the ones who predicted the future and pronounced blessings and cursing. But at the same time they were schooled in poetry and drama. They were the leaders who got the word of God in the presence of God to pronounce the future success of the word in the history of Israel. So they were not just passive vehicles to pronounce blessings but they were well schooled in how to obtain the blessings and cursing. They received the prophecies through their knowledge of Gods progressive revelation. Even tho they were divinely inspired they still used all of their knowledge in receiving Gods divine revelation. So they experienced being Israels divine lawyers as earthly representatives of Gods covenant people. They were faithful covenant members. At the same time God always had a remnant who were schooled in the teachings of these prophets. They were active listeners as the prophets pronounced Gods decrees. But there was the national spirit that departed from God who practiced Idolatry in unfaithfulness. These people did not just struggle with sin but they were spiritual adulterers. These people purposely set up idols from unbelief. They wanted independence from Jehovah and so they received their prophecy through divination. This is why Israel was disciplined! This is ot poetry in action. These words have significance in the context of this dramatic word order. Isa 40  1 Comfort, comfort my people,    says your God. 2 Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,    and proclaim to her that her hard service has been completed,    that her sin has been paid for, that she has received from the LORD’s hand    double for all her sins. Here the Nation received their discipline. The Psalms says that God disciplined Israel so that He could bring judgement on their abusers. The account of the Egyptian army who were pursuing Israel because Pharaoh had changed his mind was that God saved Israel by parting the Red sea and at the same time loured the Egyptian army and crushed them in the waters. You dont have the Red sea closing as Israel was moving across it but it was closed by God when the Egyptian armies were in the path of the waters. God used the slavery to destroy the armies in their own path. God always discipline Israel and in protecting the remnant as they suffer along with the rebellious ...He answers their cries! 3 A voice of one calling: “In the wilderness prepare    the way for the LORD[a]; make straight in the desert    a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be raised up,    every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level,    the rugged places a plain. 5 And the glory of the LORD will be revealed,    and all people will see it together.             For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.” The ot teaching about Gods word is ...it is not only the word that is pronounced and taught but its the word of prophecy that the prophets speak that produces future blessing and cursing. These phrases in this next section are filled with poetic meaning. This straight path is not just God making Israel successful in the prophecy but it is Gods revelation pronounced in the curses against the enemies of God. This is not talking about the greek idea of moral ability ... but this is talking about the supernatural power in the prophetic utterance! God makes Isreals way straight by the word of His power. He makes Israel successful against their enemies by destroying them with the brightness of His glory or His divine power in the words! These cries of the prophet and His people define future defeat for their enemies. The valley is their suffering in their being in bondage. This is a promise that they will enjoy complete defeat of their adversaries. Because it says that every mountain or nations will be flattened. What was Gods word in relation to Isreal in their total beauty? It was that all the other rugged mountains will look on the mountain where Gods glory would ascend in worship and they would envy this one glorious mountain. The mountain of the Shekinah glory! This mountain is where all other nations will bring their wealth! This mountain is the mountain of peace. It is Gods glory that destroy those nations who delight in war! The glory of the Lord will again be worshiped on the mountain of God! God speaks this into existence!   6 A voice says, “Cry out.”    And I said, “What shall I cry?”    “All people are like grass,    and all their faithfulness is like the flowers of the field. 7 The grass withers and the flowers fall,    because the breath of the LORD blows on them.    Surely the people are grass. 8 The grass withers and the flowers fall,    but the word of our God endures forever.”  9 You who bring good news to Zion,    go up on a high mountain. You who bring good news to Jerusalem,[c]    lift up your voice with a shout, lift it up, do not be afraid;    say to the towns of Judah,    “Here is your God!” 10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,    and he rules with a mighty arm. See, his reward is with him,    and his recompense accompanies him. 11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:    He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart;    he gently leads those that have young. This is nothing but the ot call to God to war. God is the Sovereign Lord because He protects His people in the day of battle. They call on the Sovereign Lord for protection against a fatal wound and for His word to go out and cause death! Listen when the pronouncement of Gods word goes out it goes out as one will on behalf of His covenant people. On the one hand it produces life in the gates of Jerusalem .. and on the other hand it produces death for the nations! The nations are like chaff...they die and are blown away. Their desires to advance against Gods people are destroyed ... they dig a pit for Israel but God destroys them in their own schemes! This Warrior proves His care for His people by His word of salvation! He protects His sheep by showing them that He will destroy all of their enemies!..... After speaking of how God who has His schrolls in heaven and who opens them to unleash His wrath... so His Spirit and word in this earthly since unleash the wrath of God against their enemies. And just like the living creatures in heaven are Gods emissaries to carry out Gods curses in behalf of Gods people so His prophets pronounce curses against the nations in behalf of Gods people.   15 Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket;    they are regarded as dust on the scales;    he weighs the islands as though they were fine dust. 16 Lebanon is not sufficient for altar fires,    nor its animals enough for burnt offerings. 17 Before him all the nations are as nothing;    they are regarded by him as worthless    and less than nothing. 18 With whom, then, will you compare God?    To what image will you liken him? 19 As for an idol, a metalworker casts it,    and a goldsmith overlays it with gold    and fashions silver chains for it. 20 A person too poor to present such an offering    selects wood that will not rot; they look for a skilled worker    to set up an idol that will not topple.  21 Do you not know?    Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning?    Have you not understood since the earth was founded? 22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,    and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,    and spreads them out like a tent to live in. 23 He brings princes to naught    and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing. 24 No sooner are they planted,    no sooner are they sown,    no sooner do they take root in the ground, than he blows on them and they wither,    and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff. This is Gods wrath being carried out against the nations. Reply Quote Notify 2510  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: May 15, 2011, 10:17:53 AM Christ is all in all. The beginning and the end. He is the King of the earth. He transcends time and space. He rules from His throne. All human agencies are subject to being made to bow down before His authority... whether on this earth or in the eternal Kingdom. There is neither Jew nor Greek .. .barbarian ... or slave... etc but Christ is all in all. This is an eternal covenant. It does not only expand to the future but it was always that God received glory by His work alone for His purposes alone to choose a people from every nation to be members of His kingdom and to grant them eternal rewards based upon His promises. There is no authority other than Gods authority. The only other alternative is to reject the Son and be banished to everlasting punishment away from the presence of God. Either men bow down now or they will dash themselves against the Rock. There is no intermediate solution to mans sin problem. The church does not forgive sins.. the church does no choose its members... there is no fraternities or social organizations in the Kingdom of God. But we are directed to speak... write... and live out the gospel alone in this day of everyone doing what is rite in his own eyes. In the Eternal Kingdom there will be no distinction between male and female slave or free. Only God will be praised because there will be no other pleasure to draw from other than Gods glory being fully manifested unto eternity! So that Christ alone chooses who will belong to His church. This means that all men are connected through these two realities. One is a cursed reality where men are walking around in blindness. The other is a blessed reality where men are advancing to take the kingdom of God by force. The cursed are trying to subvert the will of God because they have their father who is the rebellious angel who is roaming around like a lion in the presents of the gods of this earth to subvert the poor and to bring them into derision and destruction. In this world the saints are caught in this battle between Christ angels who cannot be numbered and the forces of this satanic realm. This is the gospel. It is a gospel of justification by faith. It is a declaration that God has made peace with His people. Now we advance as kings and priest unto our God. There is no hierachy in the kingdom of Christ. He alone gets all of the glory. But how can we advance if we do not sense and understand this great mystery to be beyond our own ability to work this out? We would worship and idol that is similar if Christ did not protect us and defend us in His divine decrees. Do not lower God to your little box.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 2511  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Dietrich Bonhoeffer.... by Dallas M. Roark on: May 15, 2011, 09:31:07 AM If the church would be transformed and have Christ formed in her, she must confess or lose her nature as the church of Christ. The renewal of the church is linked with the renewal of the Western world. Forgiveness, not the law of retribution, must be at work among the nations. The church holds the key to this in its confession of guilt. Essay four is entitled, "The Last Things and the Things Before the Last," or put more briefly, the ultimate and the penultimate. The ultimate word, or last word, is that of justification by faith alone. Man stands before God in Christ on this basis, and only on this basis. Therefore religious methods, ethical rightness, and civic achievement are rejected as the foundation of right-standing in God’s presence. If justification by faith is the last word, does this mean that we must flee the world and radically reject it? Are we to live only by the ultimate? What is the place of the penultimate? What of our existence in the world as it stands before God? The seeming alternative to radical rejection of the w9rld is acceptance of it as a compromise position implying rejection of the ultimate. The two positions stand in opposition to one another. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2512  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: May 15, 2011, 05:09:48 AM http://www.bethtefillah.com/audio/Parsha%20Balak.mp3 This is very good. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2513  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: May 14, 2011, 06:26:10 PM "Let God give what He commands, and command what He will." - Augustine Confessions "Through freedom man came to be in sin, but the corruption which followed as punishment turned freedom into necessity." - Augustine On Man's Perfection In Righteousness "To will is of nature, but to will aright is of grace." - Augustine Sermons "God bids us do what we cannot, that we may know what we ought to seek from him." - Augustine On Grace And Free Will "Let us take heed we be not compelled to believe that Almighty God would have any thing done which doth not come to pass." - Augustine Enchiridion "Grace does not destroy the will but rather restores it." - Augustine On Grace And Free Will "Who does not tremble at these judgments, where God works even in evil men's hearts, whatever he wills, yet renders to them according to their deserts?" - Augustine On Grace And Free Will Remove Reply Quote Notify 2514  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans Chapt. 5 and 6 commentary John Calvin on: May 14, 2011, 06:13:07 PM 8. But if we have died, etc. He repeats this for no other end but that he might subjoin the explanation which follows, that Christ, having once risen, dies no more. And hereby he teaches us that newness of life is to be pursued by Christians as long as they live; for since they ought to represent in themselves an image of Christ, both by crucifying the flesh and by a spiritual life, it is necessary that the former should be done once for all, and that the latter should be carried on continually: not that the flesh, as we have already said, dies in us in a moment, but that we ought not to retrograde in the work of crucifying it. For if we roll again in our own filth, we deny Christ; of whom we cannot be the participators except through newness of life, inasmuch as he lives an incorruptible life. 9. Death no more rules over him, etc. He seems to imply that death once ruled over Christ; and indeed when he gave himself up to death for us, he in a manner surrendered and subjected himself to its power; it was however in such a way that it was impossible that he should be kept bound by its pangs, so as to succumb to or to be swallowed up by them. He, therefore, by submitting to its dominion, as it were, for a moment, destroyed it for ever. Yet, to speak more simply, the dominion of death is to be referred to the state of death voluntarily undergone, which the resurrection terminated. The meaning is, that Christ, who now vivifies the faithful by his Spirit, or breathes his own life into them by his secret power from heaven, was freed from the dominion of death when he arose, that by virtue of the same dominion he might render free all his people. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2515  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Galatians Commentary .... Martin Luther on: May 14, 2011, 06:07:30 PM Verse 3. Grace be to you, and peace, from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ. The terms of grace and peace are common terms with Paul and are now pretty well understood. But since we are explaining this epistle, you will not mind if we repeat what we have so often explained elsewhere. The article of justification must be sounded in our ears incessantly because the frailty of our flesh will not permit us to take hold of it perfectly and to believe it with all our heart. The greeting of the Apostle is refreshing. Grace remits sin, and peace quiets the conscience. Sin and conscience 14torment us, but Christ has overcome these fiends now and forever. Only Christians possess this victorious knowledge given from above. These two terms, grace and peace, constitute Christianity. Grace involves the remission of sins, peace, and a happy conscience. Sin is not canceled by lawful living, for no person is able to live up to the Law. The Law reveals guilt, fills the conscience with terror, and drives men to despair. Much less is sin taken away by man-invented endeavors. The fact is, the more a person seeks credit for himself by his own efforts, the deeper he goes into debt. Nothing can take away sin except the grace of God. In actual living, however, it is not so easy to persuade oneself that by grace alone, in opposition to every other means, we obtain the forgiveness of our sins and peace with God. The world brands this a pernicious doctrine. The world advances free will, the rational and natural approach of good works, as the means of obtaining the forgiveness of sin. But it is impossible to gain peace of conscience by the methods and means of the world. Experience proves this. Various holy orders have been launched for the purpose of securing peace of conscience through religious exercises, but they proved failures because such devices only increase doubt and despair. We find no rest for our weary bones unless we cling to the word of grace. The Apostle does not wish the Galatians grace and peace from the emperor, or from kings, or from governors, but from God the Father. He wishes them heavenly peace, the kind of which Jesus spoke when He said, “Peace I leave unto you: my peace I give unto you.” Worldly peace provides quiet enjoyment of life and possessions. But in affliction, particularly in the hour of death, the grace and peace of the world will not deliver us. However, the grace and peace of God will. They make a person strong and courageous to bear and to overcome all difficulties, even death itself, because we have the victory of Christ’s death and the assurance of the forgiveness of our sins. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2516  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: May 13, 2011, 03:59:24 PM By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept. There on the poplars we hung our harps. This is a national mourning here. What was the circumstances? The enemies of Gods people came in and rip their children out of the families and pierce those babies with a sword. Thats a fact. It was not only the possession they destroyed but they were taken into captivity by the fascist officials. Now listen... these covenant people where in no mood to sing praises to God. But their enemies were jubilant. So jubilant that they were asking these captives to sing the peace time songs. What did these captives say? They hung up their harps. In other words God motivated them to a private war. People in peace time are light heart and they carry a song in their hearts. But when they are threaten and forced to do things that their captors want then they have constant motives for their memories in the old days. This is perfectly legitimate to become serious minded. Its not that we lack joy but its that we are looking at the reality of slavery. A spiritual man is a vicious prayer warrior. He will not stop until God makes a way for him. The anger that a spiritual man carry's is his friend. Because it motivates the man to be single minded and serious. I have experienced both frames .. .light hearted fun and serious ruthless prayer. I know when the Lord motivates me in the direction He wants me to go. Let me tell you that the Lords anger is beyond this world. The Lord sends people to eternal suffering every day. The world is like one big assembly line of people who go into eternity. One by one people face sudden destruction.  This is the real world. Its the insignificant of the amount of time we have on this earth when we compare it to eternity. We stand in the presence of God even if we do not see what He is doing. We live in God. But God does not sleep nor slumber. Gods wrath is hot and He does not mess around. The events of this world are defined by our personal experience and not necessarily as they appear in writing or in the mass view. We know God by His love for us. His standard normal routine in our lives is to follow us with His love and faithfulness. Did you know that God wants to be known by His great works on our behalf by us calling on Him to show Himself loving and faithful? It is perfectly legitimate for us to plead with God to return His favor to us so that we hear Him say... I am your salvation! What is this communication to us? Its His promise to give us the spoils of the victory... to produce in us a kind of gloating over our victories. We find at the end of the trial that if we seek God for what He promises us then we are seeking a God who follows us with His love and faithfulness. He lets us get into a fierce battle where we actually fight hand to hand combat with the enemy. We engage the enemies our faith outside the confines of this time sequence. We call down the salvation of God so that we do not remain in a state of mourning and confusion. Listen this is the most positive motive to pray... ask God to speak His salvation to you. Listen to Him as you engage yourself in ruthless prayer. What? for God to appear in the morning with a word of love.... seek Him until you can say with confidence... He follows me by destroying all of my enemies.. .look at what He did.. look at this marker here and that marker there. Then you can say He follows me with His love and faithfulness. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2517  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: May 13, 2011, 02:03:57 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 13, 2011, 01:12:43 PM mbG:  "...but Steve is a good man... a stalwart in standing alone for real grace... i applaud him. But i have some small disagreements as with all men...." K_k:  It is good to be in agreement on at least some things, my friend-in-Christ (if not always so in the flesh).   I even agree that i have some small disagreements with Steve, but as long as he doesn't get to preaching on eternal torture or on how the saved/lost have no choice at all as to whether or not they receive the Savior, then i'm in lots of agreement with him also. Kk you have a very big imagination... Steve swears to the doctrines of grace in line with the WCF.  Check in his archives. You the dog on a leash here. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2518  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: May 13, 2011, 10:22:36 AM You cant have an imperialist ruling class and enjoy the moral rewards as returns. There are such things as priorities in a persons life. These spiritual priorities cannot be ignored. Just because you do not make bricks for the Egyptian authorities does not mean that you do not experience slavery in other forms in other times. Listen to me... for the sake of the poor and the helpless. When someone enforces a penalty in the same measure as the ruling class on the poor class this must be met with opposing prayer. Listen God did not bring the plagues on Egypt to make them deliver Israel into the promise land. He always dealt with the evils in a national sense in lite of the unbridled authority of the ruling class. Because the ruling class makes up the rules they pay for to destroy the poor. An imperialist society must be met with the plagues of Egypt.  Because these ways of men destroy their neighbors. If they are not opposed then they will steal rest of the wealth. Its like eating a dead body. The car comes through runs the life over and the vultures pick the meat off the bones leaving nothing. You cant steal the wealth of a nation and think it will bring a new day. The moral equivalent is like a vulture. Any person who wants to protect the innocent cannot look on this economic abortion and smile!Listen we must perform. We must perform a spiritual take over of these national abortion economic clinics. We must curse this abomination so that we will see the plagues in an effort to return the wealth that was stolen by the imperialist. We are demanded to take our stand against the evil one who goes into the house and robs the innocent but the second time he comes its to destroy the life through force! This is why we have a remedy. No man can touch us. We either will see the plagues or we will dip our feet on the other side. Dont be a dumb fool. Your children are being attacked in the process of this evil greed! Curse with passion. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2519  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 13, 2011, 09:13:11 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 12, 2011, 05:03:40 PM I look forward to your reply.  It probably won't invalidate my decades of experience with doing things i didn't want to do, and not doing things i wanted to do, but maybe you have some different way of looking at those facts. What i do know is that as long as i thought i was in control of my life, apart from God, i was apparently doomed to a life out of control.  But when i admitted i couldn't manage my own life, and truly turned to Him to take care of me, the compulsion (to do what i didn't want to do, but do what i didn't want to do), was removed, at least for that particular sin addiction. But there were more, and still are, areas in which i sometimes experience the same effect, yet i know Christ is in the process of eliminating those dependencies in my life.  So i thank Him for the freedom He is now bringing, even though i still have more freedom to receive. Wish you understood sin addiction as well as you say you understand Edwards. I was listening to a Messianic rabbi this week. And its interesting that in the jewish culture they taught that a true covenant faithful member in Israel had a kind of third eye. Which i had always thought that it was a teaching that came out of Hinduism. They had a plant that represented the five senses as it is described. I cant remember the plant... but this plant was described from the stem to the buds. When they described the buds they were drawing parallels to seeing. This plant had three buds. The other senses touch etc were exact in the explanation. The Jews saw believing as seeing. They believed that a person either had good sight or bad site. And the teaching came out of the spies who went out and went to the bottom of the mountain that God had designated as the promise land. They were looking up at the mountain instead of going up the mountain and looking down at their surroundings. So they came back with a bad report. I think you can understand the parallel of vision here. This is exactly what we experience in our trusting in Christ. He has promised us more than land as an inheritance. Our problem is vision its not doing. Where there is no vision the people perish. And this is what the apostle was talking about here. He was saying that his vision was good but he could not do according to what he envisioned. So we believe that a bad report is not something that we struggle with about sin but its from bad vision.Most of the healings that Christ did was to give site to the blind. Again this is a picture of healing the man and giving him spiritual vision. What we need is to have our eyes opened. We need to ascend up to the top of the hill. We need to climb up upon the Rock of our salvation and look down at the surrounding nations. When we experience anxiety and sorrow its because our vision is in some way spiritually dull. Its not the sin that prevents us from moving on but its our struggle with our vision. The sin only reminds us of our former ways when we were in bondage and slavery to these enemies of the faith. So we are in danger of adding sorrow by not looking at Christ... His righteousness... His death.. His resurrection. A lot of people say that we are not fully aware of His identity in us. But this is not altogether true. Dont continuously bring a bad report with your hard heart. Describe the opposition so that you will be on the rite side of the war!  Our problems are that we do not think that danger is at our door. Its not the opposition by our sin that is the predominate influence upon our vision. In light the danger of these missionary journeys i believe John Mark was a kind of spies not necessarily a paid American cog in a mission endeavor...lol... but the eyes of the apostle.... he was spooked... Its always about adversity...  But its the forces of evil that we must advance against. There is a teaching in a psalm where the saint is advancing and feeling his sins are more than the hairs on his head but he is more concerned about his vision. About the opposition in the context! I cant understand either extreme... that being that evil prevents us from experiencing freedom in Christ and on the other hand that our blaming the forces of evil for our pain makes us unresponsive to God. I do not think people have really thought about the gospel and how it applies in a totally selfless way...I do not see this reasoning in the ot view of believing . Its first good vision or bad vision. I have addictions but i experience complete freedom. Why? Because we must preach the gospel...we must drench our eyes in the salve of the gospel.... we must climb the mountain as sinners. The problem with the spies was they did not climb the mountain so they presumed that it was an in the way to Gods success. lol... They were looking with the wrong vision. Without faith it is impossible to please God... although they may have been overcome with sorrow from weak faith. Yet this is why we go out as warriors and not greek philosophers. A little culture and a little reformed theo. All things equal we find we are in sorrow because we lack vision. The enemy has us looking at the mountain from the valley.lol. We know what to do but we lack the vision to carry it out. Thanks be to God the gospel will judge our enemies and we will dip our feet in their blood. We will judge our enemies at the great kingdom judgement because we are standing beside the great Judge of the universe. This Judge will pronounce the final death blow to satan and his children. Its vision.      Reply Quote Notify 2520  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 12, 2011, 04:44:18 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 12, 2011, 04:33:54 PM Quote from: mybigGod on May 10, 2011, 04:16:04 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 10, 2011, 04:01:20 PM mbG:  "Kk this is not an attempt to compromise but rather to again place man as not a recipient of Gods love but a necessary willingness to procure His love." K_k:  No, that is a misunderstanding.  God loves all of us equally since we are all His offspring.  Mankind is only a recipient of God's love, we do not procure it.  But not all people will experience that perfect love, which He is.  Only those who begin to release their rebelliousness and to stop suppressing His advances toward us, will awaken to their need for Him and begin to seek / find Him. His love is not conditional, but the eternal experience of it is.  Thus He sent His Son to save us because He loved the whole world, not just the elect.  And He knew that many will reject Christ's unending Life, but gives them the opportunity to be saved if they can come to see their deep need for a Savior. mbG:  "If all things are equal in our power and God then we are left with our own problems defining our sorrow and producing in us a spirit that looks at this life as a continuous time of testing and failure. K_k:  No, all things are not equally in our power and God's.  He has all power, and He gives us power to resist and rebel against Him.  Yet He conquers us with His love while maintaining our freedom to keep Him from coming alive in us, as long as we want Him separate from us.  Those who surrender to His love are saved, those who maintain rebellion all their lives are lost. mbG:  "Kk is such a humble man.  K_k:  Yes i am, when Christ is fully alive in and through me, but then the humility is actually His, isn't it...  mbG:  "If we do not have the ability then we cannot possibly do what we are required." K_k:  We cannot possibly surrender to Him without His giving us the ability, the awareness, the courage, the inspiration to do so, yet He never forces or coerces us to accept His Life into us to save us. mbG:  "In giving man full ability to deny this perfect gift in lite of the true returns that it promises we are offering man an ability to destroy himself in lite of his lack of desire to save himself." K_k:  Yes, our Dad allows the lost to destroy themselves rather than live with Him forever.  And we would have chosen that route also, if we had not been weaker in our resistance and rebellion towards Him.  Consider satan.  God cannot be blamed for satan's rebelliousness but He empowers satan to continue to resist His love until the End.  It is satan's sustained choice to reject God which He allows, though it destroy him.  So it is with all who will be lost -- they are free to choose final death. mbG:  "This is why we are in need of a message that is completely contained in the pure activity of the divine. Because whatever we think is pure is as pure as it is in its causes and its means and ends. We need a new nature. Shared ability is a cursed lie." K_k:  Yes, we need a new nature, and that only happens when we receive the unending Life of Jesus Christ into ourselves as the Savior He is.  Until that time we may be drawn, inspired, enlightened, encouraged, toward God by His Spirit.  But we must come to see our need, to seek and then find Him, which is the result of His working in us.  Still, He gives us the final decision as to whether we want Christ to be our new nature, regenerating us in His Spirit, to live in intimate union with Him forever, or instead be lost and destroyed in the Lake of Fire. It is not so much "shared ability" in mankind, since all ability comes from God.  It is more an imparted freedom to choose His Life, or to choose death.  His desire is that all men would choose His salvation, but only some will respond, no matter what He does to draw them to Himself. "...I have set forth before you life and death, blessing and cursing.  Therefore, choose life..."  Deuteronomy 30:19 "Say to them: "As I live", says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.  Turn, turn from your evil ways!  For why should you die..."  Ezekiel 33:11 "Truly the times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent..."  Acts 17:30-31 K_k:  Recall that He has fully reconciled us to Himself, and is not counting our sins against any of us if we receive the Gift of forgiveness which is in Christ Jesus.  But we must receive Him freely, not under compulsion. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting mankind's sins against them, and has committed unto us the Word of reconciliation.  Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."  2 Corinthians 5:19-20 K_k:  Note that we, with God, are to plead, and implore, the lost to turn to God in trust and dependence, not coerce or force them in any way to accept salvation.  He gives us the right to resist until we no longer want to, or else die in rejection of His love for us. Gods will is that we choose salvation but it cant be for us to not choose. Thats not a transaction at all. Thats nothing but a projection that God wills not to get involved with our choosing after He chooses for us to be able to choose. If we do not choose to be saved that is Gods will according to Kk. Because God actually wills for us to choose not to imagine that we can choose. That again is just Kks imagination. No one chooses something they do not want. Thats like saying i choose that apple but i do not actually take it and bite into it... or say i choose to put the bottle down but keep drinking... lol...imagination my dear Watson....I am not writing this for Kk as much as to those who would comprehend what i said. Just repeating Edwards.. someone kk cannot comprehend. We have the ability, given by God, to resist and reject His love for us.  And He empowers us to continue in rejection of Him as long as we so really desire.  If we want anything more than we want Him, then we will get something other than Him. Still He is very involved in our decision-making process.  Recall that He draws us, inspires us, enlightens us, reveals Himself to us in so many ways, while at the same time allowing us to ignore, deny, suppress, refuse, to turn to Him. You said "No one chooses something they do not want".  Let's see what Paul said about that. "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice."  Romans 7:19 Every addict, of any variety, knows the conflict (which only Christ resolves fully) of doing what we don't want to do, and not doing what we do want to do. mbG:  "Thats like saying i choose that apple but i do not actually take it and bite into it... or say i choose to put the bottle down but keep drinking... lol...imagination my dear Watson....". K_k:  Ask an active alcoholic, in the last stages, if they want to put down the bottle but often end up drinking anyway.  Ask an active food addict, in the last stages, if they want to keep from eating the gallon ice cream that may kill them, but end up eating it anyway.  Thus, addicts must admit to themselves, deep down, that they are powerless over their addictions and cannot manage their lives without God.  Which is the first step in their recovery from the addiction -- recognition of the problem.  And that is necessary before we will turn to the Solution for His help. Your taking Pauls experience in Romans out of context. At the same time you do not decide what is true by observation and experience. Got to go will explain