2522	Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force	on: May 12, 2011, 01:16:44 PM
One of the griefs that i have in my life of meditation is to be in relationships with people who are so earthly minded. I am not speaking about anyone directly nor about people who are of help. But in general the religious world has been mummified in insignificant things. I do not believe ... i mean in a really serious way that  I have done one thing to further my success. I have never desired that paradigm of thinking. But i believe there are forces beyond my ability that do a better job than all of my ordering in my life. Do you know how long i have lived in this mindset? I am too old to think other wise.  But there is security in grief in how it works out in our own experience. Because whatever the predominate sorrow originates... worry... anger...diss belief ... confusion...feeling neglected and scorned... a lack of understanding...unfaithfulness... having a forlorn experience... whatever it is God has designed our significance to be defined by knowing Him... finding in Him the collision of the flesh and the success of Gods present power. In other words nothing of significance without first removing the culture of disgrace and walking in the path of the Lord. No matter what a situation looks like in a two dimensional sense. No matter what the people on the surface think or say there is a very profound un reached reality determining all the physical movements in this world. You cannot have real success on human communication alone. You cant produce spiritual reality by teaching alone. You must find God in this life. We must seek God for God and not for a new short term success. The christian life is not lived in spurts but in the power of the Person who we listen to on another level. 2535  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: May 10, 2011, 02:03:07 PM We are Gods armies. We are coming back from war in this great procession to worship. Our tambourines are being played and we are dancing like kings. Why? Because we are bringing in the spoils of war. God has gained the victory! He has put all things under Christ feet. The war has been declared and He has scattered the kings of the earth like snow falling on the mountains. Think about this God has declared the He alone is the King and He alone goes out and brings back His prisoners and fatherless and widows in this great procession up to the temple. No man has achieved this great throng of what looks impossible to man but is possible with God. But how do we advance? On the wings of the dove. This is the divine source of wealth and power! This is the power of the light of the glory that goes out and destroys our foes! Its on the wings of prayer. We have the harps out in front and we follow behind in this great army. Our desires before God bring victory on the wings of the doves. They are sheaves with silver and its feathers with shining gold. This is the beauty and wealth of God in our experiencing a joy from our success in prayer and singing. We are following Christ up to the temple and we are encouraged to entreat Him to show forth His power again. There are the great armies of God that are beyond our understanding ... we are led to the angels and the chariots of God. Our prayers are to fight the good fight. We call on God to show His power again. We call on God to send forth His armies and make a way of success for His church. Listen we have a personal warrior who is coming to our rescue. This is redemption... this is salvation.. this is the final victory after all the individual battles. We are engaged in a fight. But there are armies who fight for us. There are spiritual forces that tear down strongholds and every high thing that exalts itself before God. Our prayers are the richest wealth we will experience on this earth because we will advance in power that we could not produce ourselves .The kings will flee like snow! David was dancing before the Lord in complete victory in his battles. He was bringing in the presence of God in the ark. He was joyful like a kid in his ephod. He felt like a might warrior who destroyed all of his enemies. Do you know this source? Have you prayed and felt the enemies being scattered? Do you feel this beauty and wealth of the wings of prayer? Does the value of your prayers make you feel like a rich king? Oh God show forth your power once more! This is why when we confront our own inward struggles it is only consumed in the presence of God. We do not plan to be successful. We do not really conceive with all the conceive rs. We set ourselves apart for a holy purpose. This is beyond the earths time continuum. The holy purposes are lived in... in a kind of mysterious danger. These kinds of experiences are listening to the still small voice... the power in creation... the deep illuminations as the only communication of wisdom that we trust. For He promises to counsel us in the nite time. This is a life spent walking with someone who is unseen. Sitting at the table with an invisible guest. Listening with His counsel to what community is saying. Its a life of a secret power that we trust in beyond all the authorities of this earth and we live to praise the real friend of our souls.This is a wholly consumed life in His holy designs. So we endure the insults... the misunderstandings.. the accusations... the hardness to grasp the truth in this world.. the pursuits of men who have no business being in a position of power.. and the potential to be cast out as a trouble maker. We endure the traitors of our causes. Why? Because we have no where else to go. We have seen His hand at work and we stand in eternal amazement.
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2523  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 12, 2011, 12:26:42 PM Perseverance of the saints is a refuge doctrine. There was no sacrifice for willful sin. The willful sin was to deny the covenant of grace in casting aside all of the promises in the covenant. If you reject Christ after you have tasted of the good gifts of God. There is no other sacrifice for you. Willful sin is apostasy in the heart. It leads to self righteousness because it denies the fundamental need of Christ sacrifice for sin as the only hope of salvation. But willful sin is being a part of the covenant community and denying the power of God. There is no hope of any other means to know God. This is why Gods promises are understood in His obtaining salvation for His people. The gospel is the only successful way to enjoy this spiritual inheritance that answer our guilt.. sorrow... and fear. There is no other means for a remedy. We find all of our confidence in Christ work or we have no real lasting refuge to hide in. Christ alone through faith alone ... by grace alone. We rest from our own works in the work of Christ!  God promises to make His covenant with His children .. yea and amen. There is no method of man to meet God in His promise. It must be in God alone. God calls a man... regenerates that man... perseveres him until the final judgement as a recipient of Gods eternal kingdom. God is the great apologist in the heavens as His word goes out in time in behalf of His covenant people. He decrees whatsoever comes to pass. But His glory is the present power for His people because no man can withstand the power of the presence of God. He rescues His own by the power of His glory! Its the shekinah glory that was seen in the giving of the law. And it was a promise that God would dwell with His people in the tabernacle. Because God is a holy fire. Fire surrounds Him on every side. This glory leads us in our sojourn in this foreign land. It destroys our enemies on every side! We see the hand of God when we struggle with sin... when we are threatened by men... when we feel the anger rise up against the evil in the world... this place of refuge burns with more anger! We are in a mysterious and dangerous level of earthly revenge. Gods love is His vengeance being carried out on behalf of His helpless children so that we are enabled to hide in His protection! No man can withstand the sudden disaster that results from this eternal fire! We are protected from a fatal shot and from eternal wounds. How are we to enjoy this protection? By calling on God and praising Him... singing before Him..and finding a deep refuge of illumination in the songs of the nite. For He will be God in every moment of our reality. Or He is not the true God. This is an eternal promise. Reply Quote Notify

2524  Forums / Break Room / Re: Random Thoughts on: May 11, 2011, 09:09:43 PM NEW YORK -- A popular New York City deli says a potential legal challenge to its Instant Heart Attack sandwich isn't kosher. A lawsuit filed Tuesday in federal court says the Heart Attack Grill restaurant ...LOL chain has accused the 2nd Avenue Deli of stealing its idea to spoof healthy eating with calorie-bomb entrees like the three-patty Triple Bypass Burger....LOL It asks the court to block the Arizona-based restaurant chain from pursuing a trademark infringement case. The deli's Instant Heart Attack sandwich is a mountain of two potato pancakes and a piled-high choice of corned beef, pastrami, turkey or salami. The price: $23.95. The Manhattan deli also has plans for a new Triple Bypass sandwich. .... LOL A Heart Attack Grill attorney hasn't returned a message seeking comment. A 575-pound man who served as the company's spokesman died in March  Reply Quote Notify

2525  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: May 11, 2011, 08:30:08 PM Jonathan Edwards A Divine and Supernatural Light, Immediately Imparted to the Soul by the Spirit of God, Shown to be Both Scriptural and Rational Doctrine -- A Sermon by Jonathan Edwards --- With great affection for his subject, Edwards both biblically and rationally explains that the spiritual knowledge and illumination needed to understand the gospel and to internalize the excellencies of divine truth, is imparted directly by God alone. This knowledge is given immediately by God and not obtained through natural means that operate by their own power. While God often makes use of natural means, yet the medium is not what causes the effect. God may teach us many things through nature and reason, and even use the words of Scripture to convey a doctrine or proposition, but only God can illumine them in such a way wherein we see their beauty and excellency. Those who are unregenerate have no capacity to love what is spiritual and are not partly but wholly dependent on God to translate them from darkness to light. Edwards does an excellent job explaining how spiritual light is actually given. - JWH Remove Reply Quote Notify

2526  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: May 11, 2011, 08:24:33 PM Fruit of the Spirit (Graces of the Spirit) "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit ... Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matthew 7:17, 18, 20). The fruit they bear is that which distinguishes the children of God from the children of the Devil. This "fruit" is the temper or disposition wrought in the elect by the Holy Spirit, which is manifested by them, severally, "according to the measure of the gift of Christ" (Eph. 4:7). The Spirit fructifies the regenerate by conforming them to the image of Christ: first to His graces, and then to His example. The lovely virtues found in them do not issue from the depraved nature of fallen man, but are supernaturally inwrought by God. A W Pink Remove Reply Quote Notify

2527  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Galatians Commentary .... Martin Luther on: May 11, 2011, 07:35:29 PM Verse 2. And all the brethren which are with me. This should go far in shutting the mouths of the false apostles. Paul’s intention is to exalt his own ministry while discrediting theirs. He adds for good measure the argument that he does not stand alone, but that all the brethren with him attest to the fact that his doctrine is divinely true. “Although the brethren with me are not apostles like myself, yet they are all of one mind with me, think, write, and teach as I do.” Verse 2. Unto the churches of Galatia. Paul had preached the Gospel throughout Galatia, founding many churches which after his departure were invaded by the false apostles. The Anabaptists in our time imitate the false apostles. They do not go where the enemies of the Gospel predominate. They go where the Christians are. Why do they not invade the Catholic provinces and preach their doctrine to godless princes, bishops, and doctors, as we have done by the help of God? These soft martyrs take no chances. They go where the Gospel has a hold, so that they may not endanger their lives. The false apostles would not go to Jerusalem of Caiaphas, or to the Rome of the Emperor, or to any other place where no man had preached before as Paul and the other apostles did. But they came to the churches of 13Galatia, knowing that where men profess the name of Christ they may feel secure. It is the lot of God’s ministers not only to suffer opposition at the hand of a wicked world, but also to see the patient indoctrination of many years quickly undone by such religious fanatics. This hurts more than the persecution of tyrants. We are treated shabbily on the outside by tyrants, on the inside by those whom we have restored to the liberty of the Gospel, and also by false brethren. But this is our comfort and our glory, that being called of God we have the promise of everlasting life. We look for that reward which “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath entered into the heart of man.” Jerome raises the question why Paul called them churches that were no churches, inasmuch as the Galatians had forsaken the grace of Christ for the law of Moses. The proper answer is: Although the Galatians had fallen away from the doctrine of Paul, baptism, the Gospel, and the name of Christ continued among them. Not all the Galatians had become perverted. There were some who clung to the right view of the Word and the Sacraments. These means cannot be contaminated. They remain divine regardless of men’s opinion. Wherever the means of grace are found, there is the Holy Church, even though Antichrist reigns there. So much for the title of the epistle. Now follows the greeting of the ap Remove Reply Quote Notify

2528  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 11, 2011, 02:19:04 PM Let me write about this grace in light of the composing and decomposing motif. Man in his original condition was able to express himself as having the experience of the expression that were on his body in line with all that he experienced in his soul. The dramatic nature of man is  the acting of his inward desires. Man wears a coat of many colors. This is what God does to the renewed man. He gives the man a new drama freedom. I believe that God exposes a man through parody. God did things in the ot narrative in a dramatic message in the event. So the evil was explained by the visual evidence that God decreed. But God creates a new man. So He displays His love from the drama that is in the life of a covenant child. That means that God is consistent in His love but we on the other hand are dramatically effected in our souls but we do not express that in our countenance. I mean in a logical way. I like to watch drama. I enjoy this invisible communication that drama produces. I like watching psychological thrillers because i grew up with a lot of drama in the intellectual sense. The ot is filled with evidences of Gods people who were very dramatic in their remembering Gods events in their history. But i believe that the drama is in the words first before they are considered consistent with the true condition of the heart. So that drama is a learned art. And i believe God teaches us to be dramatic in our communication to Him. Because a true saint is moved in the soul but it cannot stay there .. .it must come out in his countenance. So that drama in the biblical sense is a teaching that is the most personal in the presence of God!  People envision the drama as a natural evidence of the presence of God or in the soul of man. But drama really is the aligning of the soul with the body. It is the desires coming out in the act of the body. So that God does not just renew our souls as a single spiritual body but He also trains our bodies. That is what i consider the total experience of the pleasure of God. The Psalms are Gods drama teacher as the real supernatural effect to produce the effect in the community of believers. Drama as God teaches is produced in us in the natural order of our created purpose and it is enforced as it is seen on our face so that God also produces the effect in community. So spiritual drama is the effector and the effected. But this is not natural in this world.  Ive seen good acting but the disposition qualities come across in a kind of communication that is likable. So there is this deeper effect in the drama other than just the knowledge that is applied to be dramatic. This is why God has made a book that displays every human emotion imaginable.  In other words the bible is a kind of mirror parody in contrast of the personal image of who we think we are. So we balance our spiritual equilibrium in the experience in the meditation in the true biblical emotion. In other words as well as being taught how to plead with God we also are taught how to feel about what we plead for. This is teaching the art of apologetic s.Its being effected with the doctrine in the mirrored parody of its effects that produces the vision of the image of the doctrine. The perfect physical person of Christ emerges to us as the substitute of our forgotten self.  This is irresistible grace drama.       Reply Quote Notify

2529  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 11, 2011, 12:37:24 PM Let me talk about this irresistible grace. There is nothing that can resist grace because it has its origins in Gods kindness extended to us through His unfailing love. Gods grace is a favor that we receive when we have a need. God answers all of our needs by proving to us that He is God through inviting us to call upon Him on the basis that He will answer us according to His faithfulness and unfailing love. He answers us by gifting us with confidence that we will receive what we ask for. So we appeal to Gods unfailing love so that we will be encouraged to receive everything by His kindness to us in meeting our need through His grace. We approach God to get more grace .. knowing that He loves by teaching us to be confident in Him as the basis for our living in grace. Our christian life is a relationship with our Father through the work of Christ in the power of the Spirit. The reason that we are able to enjoy this in super abundance communication is because our Father gifts us according to His love for us in His kind intentions in fellow-shipping with us in this assurance. So we are loved by our Father as the basis for our loving others. This means that our Father encourages us to come as we are and to pour out our hearts before Him. We pour out our hearts to Him by knowing how He has assured us in His abundant grace in our past communications with Him. So we know the state of our hearts to be in need... to be lifeless... to feel dread... to need a pleasure that we cannot find on this earth. So we pour out our hearts to Him in feeling the terrible undeserved reasons that we have sinned but knowing that He overlooks our sins as if He is smiling upon us as we are transparent before Him. In pouring out our hearts we are daring. In spite of how terrible our performance is we ask beyond what we know is not what we deserve. We actually are drawn by our weeping and our complaining to relinquish our lack of sensibility knowing that we stand in the presents of one who smiles on us by giving us gifts out of His own kindness and not out of our ability to ask properly. All the reasons are removed by His response of acceptance. So we find in telling Him the honest predicament we are in that He offers us a total acceptance and we feel as if He loves us even more because we are so weak! Because His grace is even greater than our sin. So we find in His presence total freedom.  He not only promises to love us the more we are bold to Him in our weakness as an encouragement to enjoy this supernatural freedom but He promises to collect our sorrows and tears in heaven so that He even will respond to our pleading when we go to heaven and await the final judgment of the wicked. Now then we find in God the beginning and ending of our purpose. We are offered complete transparency and a new conversion to look at life as who we are in light of our gifts to be enjoyed in community as He promises to make them yea and amen. Grace cannot be resisted.      Reply Quote Notify

2530  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 11, 2011, 09:33:17 AM Kks theology is a mystical theology. The mystical paradigm is giving the object of our choices the power to over ride our wills. It is creating a self will for the purpose of self detestation. When you separate the mind and desire from the will you add the weight to the object of your choice which in turn creates an idol that in working out your epistemology that gives power to things as the return on your efforts. You actually value the object more than your love for Christ. This is what the bible calls being led in a wrong path. It ends in a hard heart that does not desire to know Christ. It creates self will in the person so that they think Christ is a set of moral qualifications. But its just a pagan philosophy of worshiping graven images. We all do at the moment we move a body part. What ever direction we proceed with our bodies is what we want for ourselves. There is never a time that desire and will are in conflict! Choice is a knowledge of the object with a desire to obtain its pleasure. No one chooses to do something he does not think about and is pleased with. You cannot separate your love for something with your knowledge of that thing. We always choose based upon our strongest desire. There is no such biblical concept of doing apart from thinking and desiring. To create a dichotomy is to teach a pagan philosophy. This is why David said that He longed for God like a dear pants for the water. Because it was the engagement of all of his energy in desiring God .. both spiritual and physical that brought him into a pure worship of God. The Psalms teach that no one can seek God unless God creates in them a new heart. In other words we are always aware of what the good is to do but just because we know what to do does not make it successful. No what makes us successful in doing is to conclude that we in ourselves cannot do one good thing unless God gives us the energy and the desire to accomplish that task. For without Christ we can do nothing!The doing is really a desire drawn out of rite thinking! David was saying that the christian life is one of focusing on Christ and then finding all of our confidence in Christ. He taught that we cannot have a desire that over comes the evil desires unless we give God glory all day long. Unless we determine to exalt Christ in our silent meditation... in our desire in work.... in our desire to praise Him... in our desire to over come our opposition. Unless we are engaged in this battle all day long then we will not have the spiritual strength to prosper. For we are always proceeding with the sword in one hand and the plow in the other. If you look in the confession there is no reason for a saint to go through something that has not been accomplished in the doing as a focus on the individual because there is a united mind in community. This united effort is one saint carrying the burdens of another saint. No one in spiritual community should be lacking because they failed to accomplish a task. Because all the saints owe each other true allegiance. This allegiance is what gives us the spiritual strength to focus on the things that will last. If all of us are living like a pagan in our separating our desire from doing then there will not be a united desire! This is why David was so dogmatic about idol worship. Because David knew that it would sap the spiritual strength from the unity of the saints! Now you need to read this carefully. Cursed is any man who desires to leave the saint in forlorn state! I mean who can meet that need.  I think this was what Christ was alluding to when He said it is better to be without a limb.... spiritual adultery. Covenant theology.     Reply Quote Notify

2531  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms on: May 10, 2011, 05:23:53 PM Man is totally depraved because all of his thoughts ... whether for the good of others are determined to choose a life style that is independent of God. Man is by nature at odds with God. So we say the man is his own god. But there cannot be two equal gods in the universe. One is self deceived. Guess who? This is why man is anti social because all his thoughts are godless. Man desires complete autonomy from God. He does not think that God demands his absolute allegiance. This makes man experience an alienation from all relationships. Man cannot find satisfaction in this life through connecting with other people because man does not know the God who created everything. God has designed the universe to bring glory to himself. The only way that man can experience this glory which is pleasure in connection ,is being connected to the author of this creation. This brings man into complete disorder in his thought life and his level of anxiety. So that man in his natural self reacts to the circumstances of this fallen universe since there is nothing that happens in a logical way. All the reality of the world is in disorder. There is no reasonable explanation. This makes men ignore the facts about all the history of the world in how nations come and go. Every generation does not really believe that the world is an evil place but they are different in this generation. They are blind to what sin has done and each generation thinks they have found the answer. Only to find that it all falls apart around them because this is how history is worked out. So men makes plans about things that are important that have no lasting value. The reason that men orders their lives as if history does not give them a perspective is because they do not see the world as God sees it. They do not have God in all their thoughts. So they reason that the world will not let them down this time. Men are creatures that know to do good but do evil anyway. Because men are totally depraved. They do not have the desire to please God so they do not choose what they do not like. This brings men into a relationship with God in which God works to over throw their schemes. Every time God thwarts mens schemes they try and create a new scheme. They not only do not think of God but they do not think that God is controlling their end. They actually think that they can do business as usual and scheme against their neighbor and get away with it. This is why they find that there is a sudden disastrous end for them. They have rejected God and left a path of destruction even tho they may look to have done good things in this world. Because they have not chosen God over the good things then they leave a trap for their neighbors. God must be God or He is working against those who want to dethrone Him. Man is good as long as he alone gets the rewards. God has declared that no one will share in his glory.Man is not able to please God from his birth. This is total depravity. Reply Quote Notify

2532  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: May 10, 2011, 04:56:18 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 09, 2011, 02:34:10 PM Quote from: mybigGod on May 07, 2011, 01:21:18 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 07, 2011, 01:02:03 PM Monologues are tiring aren't they?  Happy Momma's Day. Your free to write anything you want.... its between you and God... dont get me involved with your rules... or your efforts to censor...your like a broken record... same old stuff... break writing down.. take out of context ...set your own rules... present yourself as agreeing with Steve... while at the same time have very little knowledge of scripture and bore the hell out of me with you packaged responses. I want people on here who think and ponder... so we can be encourage to a little artistic freedom... youve scared every body off .. not one time have i read what youve said and thought ....wow thats interesting... i had not thought of that.... i got to get other more intelligent people in some other writings from your side who are dead so i can be encouraged to think.   hehe   Why thanks, mbG.  I didn't know you cared. By the way, i listened to Steve for hours on my drive to see my mother and back.  God uses him mightily, doesn't He... I did not read that correctly this morning... sorry ...i am not a strong kind of person... trials always bring me up and down..... but Steve is a good man... a stalwart in standing alone for real grace... i applaud him. But i have some small disagreements as with all men.... Saw him preach and that message still resonates today. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2533	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: T.U.L.I.P. blooms	on: May 10, 2011, 04:16:04 PM
Quote from: Kings_kid on May 10, 2011, 04:01:20 PM mbG:  "Kk this is not an attempt to compromise but rather to again place man as not a recipient of Gods love but a necessary willingness to procure His love." K_k:  No, that is a misunderstanding.  God loves all of us equally since we are all His offspring.  Mankind is only a recipient of God's love, we do not procure it.  But not all people will experience that perfect love, which He is.  Only those who begin to release their rebelliousness and to stop suppressing His advances toward us, will awaken to their need for Him and begin to seek / find Him. His love is not conditional, but the eternal experience of it is.  Thus He sent His Son to save us because He loved the whole world, not just the elect.  And He knew that many will reject Christ's unending Life, but gives them the opportunity to be saved if they can come to see their deep need for a Savior. mbG:  "If all things are equal in our power and God then we are left with our own problems defining our sorrow and producing in us a spirit that looks at this life as a continuous time of testing and failure. K_k:  No, all things are not equally in our power and God's.  He has all power, and He gives us power to resist and rebel against Him.  Yet He conquers us with His love while maintaining our freedom to keep Him from coming alive in us, as long as we want Him separate from us.  Those who surrender to His love are saved, those who maintain rebellion all their lives are lost. mbG:  "Kk is such a humble man.   K_k:  Yes i am, when Christ is fully alive in and through me, but then the humility is actually His, isn't it...   mbG:  "If we do not have the ability then we cannot possibly do what we are required." K_k:  We cannot possibly surrender to Him without His giving us the ability, the awareness, the courage, the inspiration to do so, yet He never forces or coerces us to accept His Life into us to save us. mbG:  "In giving man full ability to deny this perfect gift in lite of the true returns that it promises we are offering man an ability to destroy himself in lite of his lack of desire to save himself." K_k:  Yes, our Dad allows the lost to destroy themselves rather than live with Him forever.  And we would have chosen that route also, if we had not been weaker in our resistance and rebellion towards Him.  Consider satan.  God cannot be blamed for satan's rebelliousness but He empowers satan to continue to resist His love until the End.  It is satan's sustained choice to reject God which He allows, though it destroy him.  So it is with all who will be lost -- they are free to choose final death. mbG:  "This is why we are in need of a message that is completely contained in the pure activity of the divine. Because whatever we think is pure is as pure as it is in its causes and its means and ends. We need a new nature. Shared ability is a cursed lie." K_k:  Yes, we need a new nature, and that only happens when we receive the unending Life of Jesus Christ into ourselves as the Savior He is.  Until that time we may be drawn, inspired, enlightened, encouraged, toward God by His Spirit.  But we must come to see our need, to seek and then find Him, which is the result of His working in us.  Still, He gives us the final decision as to whether we want Christ to be our new nature, regenerating us in His Spirit, to live in intimate union with Him forever, or instead be lost and destroyed in the Lake of Fire. It is not so much "shared ability" in mankind, since all ability comes from God.  It is more an imparted freedom to choose His Life, or to choose death.  His desire is that all men would choose His salvation, but only some will respond, no matter what He does to draw them to Himself. "...I have set forth before you life and death, blessing and cursing.  Therefore, choose life..."  Deuteronomy 30:19 "Say to them: "As I live", says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.  Turn, turn from your evil ways!  For why should you die..."  Ezekiel 33:11 "Truly the times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent..."  Acts 17:30-31 K_k:  Recall that He has fully reconciled us to Himself, and is not counting our sins against any of us if we receive the Gift of forgiveness which is in Christ Jesus.  But we must receive Him freely, not under compulsion. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting mankind's sins against them, and has committed unto us the Word of reconciliation.  Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."  2 Corinthians 5:19-20 K_k:  Note that we, with God, are to plead, and implore, the lost to turn to God in trust and dependence, not coerce or force them in any way to accept salvation.  He gives us the right to resist until we no longer want to, or else die in rejection of His love for us. Gods will is that we choose salvation but it cant be for us to not choose. Thats not a transaction at all. Thats nothing but a projection that God wills not to get involved with our choosing after He chooses for us to be able to choose. If we do not choose to be saved that is Gods will according to Kk. Because God actually wills for us to choose not to imagine that we can choose. That again is just Kks imagination. No one chooses something they do not want. Thats like saying i choose that apple but i do not actually take it and bite into it... or say i choose to put the bottle down but keep drinking... lol...imagination my dear Watson....I am not writing this for Kk as much as to those who would comprehend what i said. Just repeating Edwards.. someone kk cannot comprehend.