2720	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Charles G. Finney's Systematic Theology	on: March 15, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
9. Immutability. Moral law can never change, or be changed. It always requires of every moral agent a state of heart, and course of conduct, precisely suited to his nature and relations. Whatever his nature is, his capacity and relations are, entire conformity to just that nature, those capacities and relations, so far as he is able to understand them, is required at every moment, and nothing more nor less. If capacity is enlarged, the subject is not thereby rendered capable of works of supererogation of doing more than the law demands; for the law still, as always, requires the full consecration of his whole being to the public interests. If by any means whatever, his ability is abridged, moral law, always and necessarily consistent with itself, still requires that what is left nothing more or less shall be consecrated to the same end as before. Whatever demands more or less entire, universal, and constant conformity of heart and life, to the nature, capacity and relations of moral agents, be they what they may, is not, and cannot be moral law. If therefore, the capacity is by any means abridged, the subject does not thereby become incapable of rendering full obedience; for the law still demands and urges, that the heart and life shall be fully conformed to the present, existing nature, capacity, and relations. Anything that requires more or less than this, cannot be moral law. Moral law invariably holds one language. It never changes its requirement. "Thou shalt love" (Deut. 6:5), or be perfectly benevolent, is its uniform and its only demand. This demand it never varies, and never can vary. It is as immutable as God is, and for the same reason. To talk of letting down, or altering moral law, is to talk absurdly. The thing is naturally impossible. No being has the right or the power to do so. The supposition overlooks the very nature of moral law. Moral law is not a statute, an enactment, that has its origin or its foundation in the will of any being. It is the law of nature, the law which the nature or constitution of every moral agent imposes on himself and which God imposes upon us because it is entirely suited to our nature and relations, and is therefore naturally obligatory upon us. It is the unalterable demand of the reason, that the whole being, whatever there is of it at any time, shall be entirely consecrated to the highest good of universal being, and for this reason God requires this of us, with all the weight of His authority. The problem with this thinking is how can we have assurance of Gods acceptance of us if the moral law is held over our heads? The point of salvation is that God accepts sinners on the basis that they cannot measure up. Grace is freely given so that acceptance is our sinful ways can be taken away as if we never sinned. That is God looks at Christ and the imperfect ones who not only do not live the standard of the moral law at any moment also do not want to unless acceptance is given when the law speaks. Moral law is the ten commandments ... natural law was written on the heart of man from the beginning. He is also saying that moral law is not the universal moral being so to speak but its the carrot that demands our following so to speak... wow.  He is saying that its natural to our existence. If that is the application then there is a good reason why we would sin because we actually want to do good but we cant perform like we should. Which is his contradiction... cant have it both ways there... sorry charlie.
Remove Reply Quote Notify

2721  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Whitefields letter to Westley on: March 15, 2011, 01:11:42 PM The morning I sailed from Deal for Gibraltar [2 February 1738], you arrived from Georgia. Instead of giving me an opportunity to converse with you, though the ship was not far off the shore, you drew a lot, and immediately set forward to London. You left a letter behind you, in which were words to this effect: "When I saw [that] God, by the wind which was carrying you out, brought me in, I asked counsel of God. His answer you have enclosed." This was a piece of paper, in which were written these words, "Let him return to London." When I received this, I was somewhat surprised. Here was a good man telling me he had cast a lot, and that God would have me return to London. On the other hand, I knew my call was to Georgia, and that I had taken leave of London, and could not justly go from the soldiers, who were committed to my charge. I betook myself with a friend to prayer. That passage in 1 Kings 13 was powerfully impressed upon my soul, where we are told that the Prophet was slain by a lion when he was tempted to go back (contrary to God's express order) upon another Prophet's telling him God would have him do so. I wrote you word that I could not return to London. We sailed immediately. Some months after, I received a letter from you at Georgia, wherein you wrote words to this effect: "Though God never before gave me a wrong lot, yet, perhaps, he suffered me to have such a lot at that time, to try what was in your heart." I should never have published this private transaction to the world, did not the glory of God call me to it. It is plain you had a wrong lot given you here, and justly, because you tempted God in drawing one. And thus I believe it is in the present case. And if so, let not the children of God who are mine and your intimate friends, and also advocates for universal redemption, think that doctrine true—because you preached it up in compliance with a lot given out from God. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2722  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: March 15, 2011, 12:33:53 PM Any thing or person lifted up to God in place of Christ is an idol. Because this dimension is hidden from the world and starts in the soul of man. This is the Life of God in the soul of man. When we received Christ we entered into a pact of trust in which Christ became our only representative. Christ became our substitution for sin and we no longer lived but Christ lives in us. We now have full confidence that we belong to the family of God. Christ owns us by adoption as His son. So now we have a new name. We have a new authority. This authority is the light of the glory of God who entered our being and possess us as if His own reputation was at stake. This is the King of glory. We now swear by Him because we have no other place to go. Now the kingdom of God is within us. We experience the light of the glory of Christ. So instead of us lifting up an idol we are drawn to Christ by lifting up our own souls to the one who sits on His throne who no one can look upon and live. This king of glory rules through us. He has given us the power in our salvation that raised Him from the dead!This power is His mighty vengeance enacted toward the opposition to His rule. We have divine power to pull down strong hold and every thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. This Name that we swear by is both our salvation experience in the past and our ongoing salvation. I am not a charismatic!  The ongoing salvation is not our attempt to speak salvation into existence. But its knowing the will of God and receiving what we ask for. This entails our looking unto Jesus as our only saving future event. Because Christ is the King of Glory then all things are put under His feet so that all things work together for our good. Or they are ongoing saving effects.  Whatever we swear unto is what God has promised us as the means by which we get the victory. We know our King by His revelation to us that God is our salvation. Gods decree determines not only our being called to salvation but that salvation is in Him alone!When we exalt Christ we come to our Father in light of our Kingdom experience and are over whelmed with His eternal love. His eternal promise to us in His covenant faithfulness. We experience the victors march as if we have pulled down a whole city. But we do not take the credit for His work in and through us. But we are encouraged to lift up our souls to our Father alone. This is why we can come into His presence with a total freedom to be transparent. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2723  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: March 15, 2011, 08:25:13 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 15, 2011, 01:48:06 AM Hi.  Can we be friends?  Maybe we should open a new thread. Some topic like "Miraculous reconciliations by Jesus -- mbG+K_k". Can i "get a witness"?  Do i hear any hearty AMENS? Kk... we can be friends and we must leave room for the other stuff. I know that friends do not always agree on things. But really Kk... i dont need your acceptance here to feel any different about myself. Although i respect your knowledge of debating. This is not the place to form a real friendship. I have many friends who would agree with you... although your denial of some of these major christian doctrines goes a little over the normal beliefs they would espouse. But this is a place of hashing it out. When i get really ticked off its because i watch people being dominated by the religious sects and i need a place to get this out. But i must do it in a biblical way. I really dont think you understand your place in this site. I dont think you have the same intentions that i do. I will never agree with you about these things because .. and i am just stating a fact but i really have memorized large portions of scripture and i do not come on here because Kk is disagreeing with me and i want to prove him wrong. I could care less to tell you the truth.  But i come on here because i have this fire in my belly and because i have always been really good with my mind to hand coordination. My natural abilities is working with wood with my hands. But i have an ability because of all of the yrs of meditation to use my hands on this site.  Kk this has nothing to do with you. I am sorry. But i have friends who are in my personal space. But you will never be a meta physical thinker. You do not like thinking that way. In some ways you want to oppose me and i feel like your are trying to change the meta physical freedom i have here and my expressing it. Let me give you my purpose on this site. I come to discuss theology only. I started this thread to please kk. I also am trying to learn how to use different forms of writing other then just the desert monk stuff.  Kk... naturally we probably would not be friends because you irritate the hell out of me. You need to read more and talk less because you are a obsessive compulsive person. Ive never seen so much repetition in my life. You dont have enough biblical facts in your head to discuss on an intelligent level. In some ways i think your trying to be like me.  This is a Calvinistic site. But its free too. So you can say what you want but your not going to get friendship in agreement from me.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2724  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: CHAPTER 19. - OF CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. J CALVIN on: March 15, 2011, 08:01:22 AM 9. It is, however, to be carefully observed, that Christian liberty is in all its parts a spiritual matter, the whole force of which consists in giving peace to trembling consciences, whether they are anxious and disquieted as to the forgiveness of sins, or as to whether their imperfect works, polluted by the infirmities of the flesh, are pleasing to God, or are perplexed as to the use of things indifferent. It is, therefore, perversely interpreted by those who use it as a cloak for 2136their lusts, that they may licentiously abuse the good gifts of God, or who think there is no liberty unless it is used in the presence of men, and, accordingly, in using it pay no regard to their weak brethren. Under this head, the sins of the present age are more numerous. For there is scarcely any one whose means allow him to live sumptuously, who does not delight in feasting, and dress, and the luxurious grandeur of his house, who wishes not to surpass his neighbor in every kind of delicacy, and does not plume himself amazingly on his splendor. And all these things are defended under the pretext of Christian liberty. They say they are things indifferent:  I admit it, provided they are used indifferently. But when they are too eagerly longed for, when they are proudly boasted of, when they are indulged in luxurious profusion, things which otherwise were in themselves lawful are certainly defiled by these vices. Paul makes an admirable distinction in regard to things indifferent: “Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled” (Tit. 1:15). For why is a woe pronounced upon the rich who have received their consolation? (Luke 6:24), who are full, who laugh now, who “lie upon beds of ivory and stretch themselves upon their couches;” “join house to house,” and “lay field to field;” “and the harp and the viol, the tablet and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts,” (Amos 6:6; Isa. 5:8, 10). Certainly ivory and gold, and riches, are the good creatures of God, permitted, nay destined, by divine providence for the use of man; nor was it ever forbidden to laugh, or to be full, or to add new to old and hereditary possessions, or to be delighted with music, or to drink wine. This is true, but when the means are supplied to roll and wallow in luxury, to intoxicate the mind and soul with present and be always hunting after new pleasures, is very far from a legitimate use of the gifts of God. Let them, therefore, suppress immoderate desire, immoderate profusion, vanity, and arrogance, that they may use the gifts of God purely with a pure conscience. When their mind is brought to this state of soberness, they will be able to regulate the legitimate use. On the other hand, when this moderation is wanting, even plebeian and ordinary delicacies are excessive. For it is a true saying, that a haughty mind often dwells in a coarse and homely garb, while true humility lurks under fine linen and purple. Let every one then live in his own station, poorly or moderately, or in splendor; but let all remember that the nourishment which God gives is for life, not luxury, and let them regard it as the law of Christian liberty, to learn with Paul in whatever state they are, “therewith to be content,” to know “both how to be abased,” and “how to abound,” “to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need,” (Phil. 4:11). Remove Reply Quote Notify

2725  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: CHAPTER 19. - OF CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. J CALVIN on: March 15, 2011, 07:45:36 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 14, 2011, 02:08:53 AM mbG:  "There is really no one righteous." K_k:  Scripture may disagree with you. "Then the LORD (YHWH) said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation."  Genesis 7:1 "And he (Abraham) believed in (YHWH) the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness."  Genesis 15:6 “The LORD (YHWH) rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands He has recompensed me.  For I have kept the ways of the LORD (YHWH), and have not wickedly departed from my God."  2 Samuel 22:21-22 "And Solomon said: “You have shown great mercy to Your servant David my father, because he walked before You in truth, in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with You."  1 Kings 3:6 "For the LORD (YHWH) knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the ungodly shall perish."  Psalm 1:6 "LORD (YHWH), who may abide in Your tabernacle?  Who may dwell in Your holy hill?  He who walks uprightly, and works righteousness, and speaks the truth in his heart;"  Psalm 15:1-2 "He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who has not lifted up his soul to an idol, nor sworn deceitfully.  He shall receive blessing from YHWH (the LORD), and righteousness from the God of his salvation."  Psalm 24:4-5 "Rejoice in the LORD (YHWH), O you righteous!  For praise from the upright is beautiful."  Psalm 33:1 "Depart from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.  The eyes of (YHWH) the LORD are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their cry. The face of the LORD (YHWH) is against those who do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.  The righteous cry out, and the LORD (YHWH) hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles."  Psalm 34:14-17 "A little that a righteous man has Is better than the riches of many wicked.  For the arms of the wicked shall be broken, but the LORD (YHWH)  upholds the righteous."  Psalm 37:16-17 "I have been young, and now am old; yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his descendants begging bread."  Psalm 37:25 "Cast your burden on the LORD (YHWH), snd He shall sustain you; He shall never permit the righteous to be moved."  Psalm 55:22 plus many more instances in Psalms... "The hope of the righteous will be gladness, but the expectation of the wicked will perish.  The way of the LORD is strength for the upright, but destruction will come to the workers of iniquity.  The righteous will never be removed, but the wicked will not inhabit the earth. The mouth of the righteous brings forth wisdom,  but the perverse tongue will be cut out."  Proverbs 10:28-30 plus many more instances in Proverbs... "I have seen everything in my days of vanity: there is a just man who perishes in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man who prolongs life in his wickedness."  Ecclesiastes 7:15 “Say to the righteous that it shall be well with them, for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.  Woe to the wicked! It shall be ill with him, for the reward of his hands shall be given him."  Isaiah 3:10-11 “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?  Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?”  He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly,  He who despises the gain of oppressions,  Who gestures with his hands, refusing bribes,  Who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed,  And shuts his eyes from seeing evil"  Isaiah 33:14-15 “Listen to Me, you who follow after righteousness,You who seek the LORD (YHWH): look to the rock from which you were hewn, and to the hole of the pit from which you were dug."  Isaiah 51:1 “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, you people in whose heart is My Law: Do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their insults."  Isaiah 51:7 "No weapon formed against you shall prosper, and every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD (YHWH), and their righteousness is from Me,” says (YHWH) the LORD."  Isaiah 54:17 plus many more instances... “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you did not give him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.  Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; also you will have delivered your soul.”  Ezekiel 3:20-21 "Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it (the land), they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness,” says the Lord GOD."  Ezekiel 14:14 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.  The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.  But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.  None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live."  Ezekiel 18:19-22 plus many more instances in many places... K_k:  But here is a key to understanding what the Bible is saying about "none righteous, no not one".  In and of ourselves, apart from God, no one can possibly be righteous.  However, when we are depending on His guidance and empowerment, His Spirit, then we have His righteousness, for Christ is acting through us. "When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die."  Ezekiel 33:13 We cannot trust in our own righteousness, but when we trust fully in His, then we are righteous, in Him. No man can approach God on his own merits. Every man is subject to judgment for Adams sin. When Adam sinned he did it willfully. Adam could have refused to disobey God. But Adam was fully responsible because he had moral ability. When Adam sinned he brought sin into the world. Adam was the Federal Head of the whole human race. His sin was passed on to his offspring. All mankind come from one man .. Adam. The way sin was passed on was through imputation. God imputed sin to us. All men deserve death. But at the same time God determined for Adam to fall into sin to show that His glory is greater than sin. Gods purpose was to make a race that was better than Adam could have been had he continued in his obedience. God put sin on His Son and He became sin for us. Christ came as close as He could to personal sin in order to be our full substitute for our sin. Because the world is rejected by God in being cursed because of sin then we are offered a greater ability than Adam had in overcoming our own sin. In Christ we have complete victory over sin in the final renewal of all things. The rest of mankind will stand in judgment to pay for their sins in eternity. The reason that God decreed Adam to sin was to prove His love to His covenant people. God does this by calling them.. saving them... sustaining them.. and defending them.God is all glorious by His display of justice on this wicked world. Kk is making an effort to cover over Gods glory. Let me warn Kk.. what you write here is before God and it goes out into all eternity.      Remove Reply Quote Notify

2726  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Quenching the Spirit on: March 15, 2011, 07:29:35 AM Not as complicated as we sometimes make it. Just want  to let you know.. i did the lets get real section in freedom for the addicted. Just trying to learn how to speak to you in a firm way without harshness. I know you just love the phrase "Lets get real." Remove Reply Quote Notify

2727  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Whitefields letter to Westley on: March 15, 2011, 07:22:20 AM 'Tis not my design to enter into a long debate on God's decrees. I refer you to Dr. Edwards his Veritas Redux [1], which, I think is unanswerable—except in a certain point, concerning a middle sort between elect and reprobate, which he himself in effect afterwards condemns. I shall only make a few remarks upon your sermon, entitled Free Grace." And before I enter upon the discourse itself, give me leave to take a little notice of what in your Preface you term an indispensable obligation to make it public to all the world. I must own, that I always thought you were quite mistaken upon that head. The case (you know) stands thus: When you were at Bristol, I think you received a letter from a private hand, charging you with not preaching the gospel, because you did not preach up election. Upon this you drew a lot: the answer was "preach and print." I have often questioned, as I do now, whether in so doing, you did not tempt the Lord. A due exercise of religious prudence, without [the drawing of] a lot, would have directed you in that matter. Besides, I never heard that you enquired of God, whether or not election was a gospel doctrine. But, I fear, taking it for granted [that election was not a biblical truth], you only enquired whether you should be silent or preach and print against it. However this be, the lot came out "preach and print"; accordingly you preached and printed against election. At my desire, you suppressed the publishing of the sermon whilst I was in England; but you soon sent it into the world after my departure. O that you had kept it in! However, if that sermon was printed in answer to a lot, I am apt to think, one reason why God should so suffer you to be deceived, was, that hereby a special obligation might be laid upon me, faithfully to declare the Scripture doctrine of election, that thus the Lord might give me a fresh opportunity of seeing what was in my heart, and whether I would be true to his cause or not; as you could not but grant, he did once before, by giving you such another lot at Deal. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2728  Forums / Theology Forum / Quenching the Spirit on: March 14, 2011, 09:27:29 PM The Spirit is our guide. He is a person who has personality. He is not a force. So the power the dwells in us is God by His Spirit. This means there is a fellowship with a direct power. This involves the sensations of ecstasy followed by a need to rest and then getting hooked up to the source  of our power once again which is the Holy Spirit.  The Spirit acts upon us as our comforter. He does this by speaking to us as one who fellowships with us. We are enlightened by the influence that we experience when we have fellowship with the Holy Spirit. He influences us in a way in which we have very high experiences when we worship. We hear the message but it does not come to us in words but it comes to us in power. The communication in worship is a fellowship we have with things that we cannot physically hold onto. These secret communications are like an act in which we receive something through another person like a healing in the laying on of hands. We receive a direct infusion of the union of all things in which God is moving to bring to His glory and pleasure. These things that we cannot see are behind the physical universe. They are the personality of all that make us whole and complete.  The acts of God  are for the purpose of bringing Himself glory. This glory is the ultimate pleasure of God that works in the ordering of all things. We are under the influence of the eternal nature of all things in that we have fellowship with God the Holy Spirit who is the Person of the Trinity who gives life to dead things. This life is the light of the glory of God. We have an ability to experience spiritual things because we have been given new senses. The Holy Spirit works through the means and outside the means in order to take us beyond the physical universe of causes. We are drawn into a fellowship with a Personal agent who causes us to find reality beyond our own ability to want it. This is why we cannot manufacture this occurrence but it comes on us. I hope to explain how we are to experience worship.  Reply Quote Notify

2729	Forums / Theology Forum / Whitefields letter to Westley	on: March 14, 2011, 08:08:56 PM
WHITEFIELD'S LETTER TO WESLEY Bethesda in Georgia, Dec. 24, 1740 Reverend and very dear Brother, od only knows what unspeakable sorrow of heart I have felt on your account since I left England last. Whether it be my infirmity or not, I frankly confess, that Jonah could not go with more reluctance against Nineveh, than I now take pen in hand to write against you. Was nature to speak, I had rather die than do it; and yet if I am faithful to God, and to my own and others' souls, I must not stand neutral any longer. I am very apprehensive that our common adversaries will rejoice to see us differing among ourselves. But what can I say? The children of God are in danger of falling into error. Nay, numbers have been misled, whom God has been pleased to work upon by my ministry, and a greater number are still calling aloud upon me to show also my opinion. I must then show that I know no man after the flesh, and that I have no respect to persons, any further than is consistent with my duty to my Lord and Master, Jesus Christ. This letter, no doubt, will lose me many friends: and for this cause perhaps God has laid this difficult task upon me, even to see whether I am willing to forsake all for him, or not. From such considerations as these, I think it my duty to bear an humble testimony, and earnestly to plead for the truths which, I am convinced, are clearly revealed in the Word of God. In the defence whereof I must use great plainness of speech, and treat my dearest friends upon earth with the greatest simplicity, faithfulness, and freedom, leaving the consequences of all to God. For some time before, and especially since my last departure from England, both in public and private, by preaching and printing, you have been propagating the doctrine of universal redemption. And when I remember how Paul reproved Peter for his dissimulation, I fear I have been sinfully silent too long. O then be not angry with me, dear and honoured Sir, if now I deliver my soul, by telling you that I think in this you greatly err.
2731  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: March 13, 2011, 12:42:08 PM There is a definite path we are traveling on. Its the path of completed redemption. Every time we think outside of the confines of scripture we face a force that drives us into our own heads. This is why i am talking about the most practical things in life. Because the greatest remedy is to keep our eyes of Christ and this is done by the counsel of His word. This is both understood by us in what words we take in as true and how we listen to our Great Shepherd. The voices of retreat call us as voices of accusation to trusting in this one Person. They say... He trust in the Lord ... let the Lord rescue Him. Each person has this cross road. Each person has two things he must be concerned about. Following the application of scripture and only going forward in self knowledge as distinct from other people. Listen to me.... the bible is the only book of real salvation because it saves us from yrs of trouble and it saves us from our selves! Sin is not the focus but Christ is. When we find sin as the focus then we have turned our eyes inward and we are ready to once again obey the voice of the law or the schoolmaster. But when we focus on Christ we see sin in light of t he grace of God. The voice is like this... but for the grace of God that sin would control me. I have no power in myself. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2732  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: March 13, 2011, 05:27:23 AM Self medicating is what we do when the doctor gives us the medicine. Geezz... seriously ... you sure have a way of twisting words. Seriously Kk... sometimes ... I mean this in a nice way... but you are a goofy guy. Ive talk to guys who are drunk who have more sense than you come off here.  Look the only reason that we harbor other gods is because we do not think like God revealed Himself in the scriptures. The substances have no power in themselves. Kk... i am going to be as nice as i possibly can. But your recovery has nothing to do with your understanding of biblical truth. Its obvious that you have tried to mix something that is like oil and water. Nothing on this earth as far as substances... people ... and self fulfillment have any power in themselves to make us do anything. They are just things. The problem is that we do not balance out our addictions with the exposure to the way God thinks. This is possibly and art form... possibly an ability for everyone.. and nothing is 50 50 one will take control of the other as new event. In my own experience ... worry.. wrong thinking... wrong application.... a hard headness to the application of scripture... and a confusion about love hate that confuses who is a friend and who is just there for the rewards... can be put together as an over focus on self which leads to all kinds of fleeting additions to our personality that in the end will prove to be fatal. The christian experience is in light of how God has designed it to be described... i mean.. even if you took care of the physical addiction by further medicating. (Using people or medication to balance out the addiction.)  In order to not continue the personality of addiction we must think and talk differently even tho we still struggle with the addiction. The power is only in God. Now listen.... you will struggle with sin as long as you are on this earth. This means that no matter what you call it... addiction... self righteousness... selfishness etc it is in the biblical sense "sin". Sin is not avoided by self medicating ... you can self medicate for the glory of Christ.  We become like Christ in the remedy and we are made new. This newness is both something we understand and something that is a mystery. It can be both spiritual and physical... physically .. i mean .. yrs added onto our lives. We really are not looking at ourselves to add anything but learning to enjoy one thing over another. We are free.  In my opinion 50 50 is the same as arguing with a agnostic about the existence of our God.    Remove Reply Quote Notify 2733  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: CHAPTER 19. - OF CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. J CALVIN on: March 13, 2011, 05:04:39 AM There is really no one righteous. Abraham had to be justified by faith. The context was his offering up Isaac in obedience to Gods command. How was the act acceptable before God? Abraham declared himself wicked that he might be justified by faith and not by the works of the law. You have it backwards... contradictory and all the other stuff you write on here.  There is no one righteous. There is no one who seeks after God. This is the reason that we are able to be acceptable to God by grace. Because there is non of us who deserve Gods acceptance and goodness by our own goodness. God not only sought us but He determined before the foundation of the world to keep us by decreeing whatsoever comes to pass. He gives us grace to enable us seek Him. We love Him because He first loved us. But we are never in a state of not needing to be justified. This is why our sanctification is drawn out of our justified state. We are acceptable to God because of Christ righteousness.  God sees Christ and He accepts us. God declares us righteous in the court of heaven. This declaration is out of Gods pure grace and goodness. But if we were to come into heaven on our own works we would be turned away. We enter the heavenly court room where our defense lawyer is Christ . Not only is He our defense lawyer but He is our substitute. We are only acceptable because Christ was accepted. All of our works are tainted with sin ,corruption and human weakness. "Sacrifice and offerings You did not desire but my ears you have pierced . Burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require ...then I said here am I ... I have come to do your will oh Lord." Now listen ... in reality the sacrifices did not save David. What saved David was this implantation of a new desire to worship God. Look what David says above. Look later at what David concluded. He said "my sins are more than the numbers of my hair". What was David saying? He was saying that his worship was only acceptable because he was justified by faith. We cannot do one good thing on our own. Not because there is a little goodness in us and a little grace from Christ. But because we are unable to be good. We not only need to depend upon God for the power and grace but we must give God all of the glory for displaying His righteous One as the Glorious One. Christ is the only one able to come to the throne and take the scroll from our Father. There is no one else.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2734  Forums / Current Events / Earth Quake on: March 12, 2011, 10:33:36 PM This girl predicted 3 days before the earthquake off the coast of Japan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7QAZPb-IEQ&feature=player_embedded#at=496 Reply Quote Notify 2735  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: March 12, 2011, 08:19:47 PM _ Kk:  People in recovery, who have been freed from the compulsion and obcession to use chemicals, are not better than people who are still addicted, we are exactly equal.  "There but for the grace of God go I" is a common saying among us, since it is only He Who is recovering us, as we cooperate with His "program" for us. There is nothing wrong with medicating. The problem is when we do not give thanks to God that He provides us peace of mind. Whether we use other people to achieve our health and peace or we use a substance the sin is not in the substance itself or the bodys response to the medication but we struggle with over medicating. The first thing is we should be thank that God has given us all things for their proper use and develop a thankfulness and quietness if we are struggling. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2736  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: CHAPTER 19. - OF CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. J CALVIN on: March 12, 2011, 08:10:38 PM 8. “I know,” says Paul, “that there is nothing unclean of itself,” (by unclean meaning unholy); “but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean,” (Rom. 14:14). By these words he makes all external things subject to our liberty, provided the nature of that liberty approves itself to our minds as before God. But if any superstitious idea suggests scruples, those things which in their own nature were pure are to us contaminated. Wherefore the apostle adds, “Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin,” (Rom. 14:22, 23). When men, amid such difficulties, proceed with greater confidence, securely doing whatever pleases them, do they not in so far revolt from God? Those who are thoroughly impressed with some fear of God, if forced to do many things repugnant to their consciences are discouraged and filled with dread.  All such persons receive none of the gifts of God with thanksgiving, by which alone Paul declares that all things are sanctified for our use (1 Tim. 4:5). By thanksgiving I understand that which proceeds from a mind recognizing the kindness and goodness of God in his gifts. For many, indeed, understand that the blessings which they enjoy are the gifts of God, and praise God in their words; but not being persuaded shalt these have been given to them, how can they give thanks to God as the giver? In one word, we see whither this liberty tends—viz. that we are to use the gifts of God without any scruple of conscience, without any perturbation of mind, for the purpose for which he gave them: in this way our souls may both have peace with him, and recognize his liberality towards us. For here are comprehended all ceremonies of free observance, so that while our consciences are not to be laid under the necessity of observing them, we are also to remember that, by the kindness of God, the use of them is made subservient to edification. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2737  Forums / Theology Forum / Freedom For The Addicted on: March 12, 2011, 08:26:51 AM Addictions are always going to be a part of our lives as long as we are on this earth. I talk a lot about how bad the wicked are and what judgment is a lot of the reasons there is suffering in this world but i really am not selling you something like Kk. Nor is my effort to put the blame on your particular addictions. Because my belief is actually offering you freedom to enjoy your addiction by deflecting blame from you and giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are a nice person and you know your problem. Because really i am not like Kk who thinks that your addiction makes you blind to your own weakness. Nor do i think that you can be an example of someone who deals with his addictions and comes out the other side. I am not promising you anything because I myself have addictions to. So i just want to hang out. Kk thinks that people who drink too much or smoke to much or do anything to much are not able to enjoy a rational way of life and take care of their responsibilities. But he believes that you have gone off the deep end and he would tell you to do something to deal with your addiction. But this is not what i am saying. I dont look at this like the people who have done the program know more or are better than the people who are still addicted. Can we talk... please give me the benefit of the doubt that tho  I come of as condemning because of my psalms writing that i am not specifically talking about people who are sinners in particular. Here is my philosophy... i only see one real man... i believe the world is like a stage. I see men as parodying what all men are as sinners. Your sin does not jump on me like a demon and cause me to follow your addictive patterns. I hang out with people who drink too much because i enjoy the honest assessment of life of being under some kind of influence that i myself have trouble with. This is not Kks style. I want to paint a picture of how free God is to do as He pleases so that my confidence is not in my attempt to get you to change. This is why i kind of set up an evil straw man so that i can be as honest about the sinfulness of myself as i possibly could think. Because if i did not express hate to this evil man then i could not be angry when kids get abused or old ladies are neglected.. or the disabled are set aside. I really do not want to blame a particular man. This is why i memorized the Psalms because i just want to look at real defense... real redemption... real protection .. while at the same time accepting my addictions in lite of other peoples addictions and enjoying the social part of all mankind. In this section i am going to get real.      Reply Quote Notify 2738  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Universalism: Definding the unbeliever at the expense of the Sheep on: March 11, 2011, 02:58:00 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 11, 2011, 12:39:11 PM mbG signature line:  "There is a mystery of connection to what He reminds us in His language of Spirit and word that create who we are from our past in light of the grace that we have received that gives us an individual identity." K_k:  Or, it could be said that we are to be always what His love defines us to be.  Fewer words, but same idea? Personally, i don't think theology is a bad place to put "big arguments".  For theology isn't Scripture, just human interpretations of it.  It's good to have various viewpoints in various places, not just in purgatory.     Personally, i don't think theology is a bad place to put "big arguments".  For theology isn't Scripture, just human interpretations of it.  It's good to have various viewpoints in various places, not just in purgatory You teach a theology as long as you teach another view point than mine. Kk if your teaching has no basis in scripture ... if you believe that my comparisons of your teaching has no parallel to historical teaching then you must see from my perspective that you do not have enough information to know if you are presently teaching heresy. Kk talking to you is like talking to someone who does not believe there is a basis for a belief in God. Because teaching began when God taught Adam and he passed it onto the next generation. Thus it is not only necessary that teaching is only orthodox if it is correct by its historical accuracy.Its the same logic after the bible was complete and we have a history of interpretation. The main reason we insist on historical accuracy is because there is only one line of reasoning in the presentation of the doctrines of grace. Other wise you are just presenting a contradiction. The law of non contradiction must always be applied to teaching. This is why it is so hard for me to have an intellectual discussion with you because you dont take the time to sharpen yourself on historical teachings. But i give you credit ... you know how to stick to a point.  Kk... you can turn my words around and try and show that my concepts are hard to understand. Ive been doing this for 6 yrs and discussed theo. with a lot of people. If you cant tell me some of the specific reasons that i disagree with you then your not very knowledgeable in historical discussion. If you do not like to read my responses then learn what i believe from someone else and then we can have a clear discussion. I do not even need to read you to know where you are coming from. Although i have read almost every repetitive thing you have said. Thats why i write what you believe and then respond to your position cause you dont know enough of the conflict in the historical perspective to understand the deeper things that need to be discussed.  I m tired rite now ..talk later.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2739  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Universalism: Definding the unbeliever at the expense of the Sheep on: March 11, 2011, 09:34:10 AM We need to move the big arguments into this thread. I agree Jenni.... Thats what Purgatory is for. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2740  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and memory on: March 10, 2011, 03:17:16 PM We need to understand that teaching defines who we are. Memory is the focus of that teaching. The greek idea of learning is like a stick and a force. In the minds of the natural man they believe that change comes from the outside force. Because man in his nature is a little god builder. He looks at life as if he were the ape man. Because all men are like beast when they practice envy and hate as the basis of their way of learning. This is why the bible focuses on the soul of man. Because the Bible is the only reality of how a person understands himself and his purpose in this life.  We have a mode of teaching that each word is the entire teaching by the spirit in which is understood and the entire teaching is the mechanism in which man becomes better. The word is unbroken.  So we look into the only mirror of truth when we look into the mirror of the word. Because we really are beginning to understand what love and faithfulness look like in a paradigm of the eternal focus as the word that cannot be broken! We are looking into the mirror of a healthy experience of the holistic spirit in which we understand life.  Memory is a voice of the eternal procession of Christ rule in how His word goes out and into our past and present experience.  The unbroken pattern of His word is our procession to the top of the hill and we enter His worship! We are not talking about a stick applied but a mirror of the reality of all things.  We have no hope outside of Gods word not returning void. Because Gods word is the bringing and ending of the cause of all things that exist. Gods salvation is in God alone. God must pre ordain everything by the word of His mouth. The word is our holistic understanding of our experience as we are created a new with the memories of looking into that mirror. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2741  Forums / Theology Forum / Our Fathers Covenant Love on: March 10, 2011, 02:44:55 PM Gods love for us is beyond our sinful pay scale. His love surpasses the checks and balances of this world. God takes away and gives our of His own desire to bless His children. This is why out Father is more attractive to converse with than any other authority on this earth .Because our Father not only knows us in and out but He knows that we have been adulterers and covenant breakers because He understands that we are dust. For He convened in the universal court and demanded that we receive gifts out of His abundant righteousness and faithfulness.  When we are drawn to God as the lover of our souls we experience a love through the Spirit... in a personal relationship with Christ who answers all of our needs in light of our Fathers determination to produce in us a clear voice of fellowship with our great Shepherd. This Shepherd is the Shepherd of our souls. His personal attention is His ability to produce in us a passion that is not like any attraction of this earth. He teaches us a kind of unity to all that Christ is in our real identity as expressed in our love for our great Shepherd and our experience as sinners in the arms of our Father. He is the God of our salvation because Salvation is in Him alone! I want to extol His love and I hope to have such a focus on God as Father that it will be a thread that describes Him as our all in all. Reply Quote Notify 2742  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Sovereign Grace And The Third Use Of The Law on: March 10, 2011, 01:42:56 PM Thanks guys... i have no self concern about this process. Even if someone were to skim through it ... it is of no consequence to my success or lack . I just want to write so that the part they read is what they need. But even if your simplistic answers and your repetitive style is your cause then it just shows your general attention to the more important things. Cause its hilarious to me that you can quote someone who you admit that you do not read and yet tell me who spends the time researching these things and memorizing scripture that you can have Calvin agreeing with your positions when you havent understood what he is saying and taking him out of context because you are too lazy to read him. The truth is ive had to respond to kk by explaining his side and then defending mine. It would be much easier if i had someone who was able to go deeper. It just goes to show you what a tool you can be .   So you guys have quoted a statement by Calvin... what does Calvin believe in a more detailed way? Yes i know... just like my relationship with Kk... i ask him after conversing with him for 1 yr why i disagree with him about the sermon on the mount and he goes into his argumentative repetitive style. Single one line statement. I can tell you what kk believes in one line. Typical relationship expert in that mode... blah blah bla. Its mind numbing to me. Kk i dont want to be mean but if your going to diss me like this then you really are like a fly on my face... i give you your own position in a logical detailed way and having  worked my ass off and you throw out these mindless repetitions with no knowledge of the word usage in the text. Its like having someone who is a kind of a moron hanging out in my study. hehe. Thats ok i have a tendency to be lazy too but more out of weakness now. 2746  Forums / Theology Forum / Sovereign Grace And The Third Use Of The Law on: March 09, 2011, 09:45:15 AM  I want to open this up to discussion because grace and law do not mix. But at the same time I believe that we already have an pre grace awareness of the standard .. i mean in an intellectual sense that it is taught to us for the first time... so that in the ot wisdom books we do not see confession as a means in itself but a form of speech in order to form an argument as a personal defense.  The teaching that we have all that we need for our salvation and now it is a matter of working it out is mainly a Greek idea. This is why it is necessary to take these concepts from the ot and see how these words in the new testament fit with the ot pictures. I want to further explain this.  Reply Quote Notify 2747  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and memory on: March 08, 2011, 07:45:10 AM God communicates in a language that is beyond our own capacity to communicate. He communicates on a level that we do not understand. This is why in Gods examination of us is redefining our position in this world. God does this by a thinking reality beyond our present circumstance in light of all that other people are thinking about personal powers and our influence in these relationships. Because God has a vocabulary that we could not fathom. This is why God redefines us in this thinking mode through working out by identity. God actually recreates our past. I do not think we have the power to define our purposes in this life or redefine our past. This is why we can forget in God. I mean there is a process not just in the wish that our past was experienced in a different way but our understanding that it was not like we defined it in the present. This is in the prayer "remember me". In a way all of the identity of reality is controlled by God when we understand who God is. When we understand who God is we communicate in a way that God works. Not only does God create future reality but He also creates forgetfulness. What we need to see is God sets up circumstances in which He puts us in the position that we move our circumstances by the lack that He uses to judge the wicked. We must see the world of reality is upside down. The position of power is in the rise in spiritual qualities and the relinquishing of our position in the world. Because God cannot share His glory with any man. We are in a world where men define memory out of a sense of their own worthiness. This is the motif to exercise more self power in order to acquire a greater name. But God will not be thwarted. Memory is an intense struggle for control in our own minds but God determines reality by speaking it into existence. We must see that the circumstances only enforce the meta physical cause of the change. God works out of causes beyond the ability of man in a way of identity in all of the understanding of reality. The physical universe is secondary. God remembers us in identity as the reality of our world. Think about this. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2748  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Radical Love on: March 08, 2011, 07:20:08 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 08, 2011, 12:37:43 AM hearttuggs:  "Just choose to Love, as God loves ..   HE has given us that gift to give to one another. Great, isn't IT!!" K_k:  Yes, it/He is great!  And it is wonderful that He gave us the Commandments, written originally in stone, now in our hearts and minds, so that we will know when we are or aren't really loving with His love. Mankind wants to change the meaning of "love" to broaden it to whatever feels good.  So homosexuality, adultery, idolatry, etc, can be spoken of as expressions of love by many people, even some "Believers".  But the love of God fulfills His Commandments, and when we are convicted by the Holy Spirit, that we aren't being very loving, it will often be through bringing the heart of a Commandment to our attention.  And then He draws / inspires us to let Him love more purely through us, just as He has promised in those same "Thou shalt not, thou shalt"'s. Great, isn't He!! Thanks to the women here, Kk did a little back down... now he says the law is only used to lead us to Christ who inspires us to keep His commands not actually keeping them as Christ would. Reply Quote Notify 2749  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: March 06, 2011, 12:42:49 PM My theory... These angels were set to bring in the end the old earth being positioned at the four winds. But the angel comes with the seal of God. It would seem to me this is the angel that participated in the baptism of Christ. So this angel is coming up from the east and had not yet sealed the new covenant Israelite. I would guess these are what Hebrews talks about ... those who suffered in death and those who did great acts for the kingdom. Because these jews are carrying palm branches .... which would be palm sunday. But we have a delay... this is a not yet .....already time period. So we are in the process of renewal but not experienced the final renewal. These angels are positioned at the four winds of the earth.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2750  Forums / Main Forum / Re: A wooing experience on: March 06, 2011, 09:15:16 AM Ive had some wooing goin on down here on this planet for most of my adult life. I was involved in hurricane Andrew. But I do not feel led to talk about what happened. Only to say that it was like a chapter ended in as to moving my family. But these experiences become more detailed and closer together as we grow in our faith. Let me explain before i describe that God speaks to us. Because there are a lot of people who would think this is purely a psychological thing. My reasoning for God speaking is a moral one. If at some point God was uninterested in an event .... i mean the circumstances... the communication.. the outcome ... then at some point God would act in a way that was distant. The events in our lives are communications on a very detailed level rite down to the way a particle is moving. If God determines where the particles in the air are ... then dont you think the details of time are all seen by God as the one who examines them in how they interact to form our view of these events? I am describing the moral component as opposed to the immoral imagination in our minds about the necessary powers that we are either blinded to or we ignore. We have the immediate circumstances that touch each of our experience. Then we have the world circumstances that we are blinded to. But we have a God who sees everything. Now think of this communication level that we have available to us 24 7. We actually are promised that we can effect the world events in our communication with God. But back up a little. If all of our present circumstances are necessary then God had to prescribe them to us for a purpose in each of our situational ethical understanding. Other wise we would be cast into a universe where we were all alone. There would be no connection to how the events in this world came about. So in a sense our necessary powers in our daily lives are derived by God sense we are talking about Gods order as His understanding determines our very existence.  This is why we must think like God. Because God is very detailed. Do you realize that every power that we are effected by is to some extent lesser of greater out of our own blindness that it exist. What i am saying is that if our understanding of God were to increase then our minds would expand to accept these powers upon our seeing them in the detail of our understanding. This again is a moral question about giving God the glory He deserves. Sorry but trying to explain why God speaks. Reply Quote Notify 2751  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: March 05, 2011, 02:35:43 PM The gospel is the third dimension ongoing salvation from a completed state of peace. It was decreed by God in the counsel of the Trinity before the foundation of the world to save man in accomplishing the work in the Trinity. This means that the only salvation available for man on this earth is in God.We believe that since salvation was obtained by the Father sending the Son and granting salvation through the word and Spirit that we can do nothing to obtain it. Not even our asking will bring salvation. In essence the gospel silences all men so that God will do a secret work of salvation on the heart of man. The gospel transaction begins with man glorifying God by viewing himself before God as he really is.  Salvation is a choice of God who alone gives us a true confession of our personal experience of Gods covenant love. Because salvation is God covenanting with His people. When we think of love and faithfulness, kindness and long suffering then we only see this displayed by God alone. We say that God chooses a special people in order to display His love and faithfulness through ... to the world. God saves his people, provides for their daily needs, blesses them with wisdom and an eternal inheritance by keeping them from the sin unto death and eternal damnation. The way God does this is that He ordains whatsoever comes to pass. So that He gives us the vision to hope in things that are to wonderful for us to imagine. When we think of why we deserve to be saved we look at Gods eternal love as the only foundation. Salvation is an ongoing life. It was obtained in Christ at the cross for Gods chosen people so that God can provide the only means to bring us to our final salvation. When we think of the cross we think of Christ coming and obtaining something that took us over this great gulf that separated us from God. Christ became our personal substitution so that we do not need to think of our own goodness but on Gods love and faithfulness. We are so accepted in Christ that we are identified with Him in the act of His death and resurrection. This means that we were brought to salvation through the will of Christ. He overcame our will by being willing to go the way of suffering. We now can find peace from our human weaknesses our anger and our inability to obtain righteousness in our union with Christ as our great redeemer. This is why He calls us friends and not slaves. Because slavery was to be taken from ones glorious home and taken to a far country to be owned and dominated by force. But when Christ redeemed us He brought us home to our family in heaven and now calls us Sons and friends. In scripture ... slavery and freedom are often synonyms for law and grace.  We no longer are controlled by the anxious slavery of bondage to the law but we are controlled by the freedom we have in grace to acknowledge who we are as sinners , and enjoy our freedom from condemnation by being shielded from guilt and blame in the old way. In the third dimension we are saved by being in the love and faithfulness of God who cannot fail. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2752  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The 11th Commandment on: March 05, 2011, 01:14:35 PM I hear this all the time. Christians making Christ teaching like a straw man. Its a teaching that says there is equal force along the road to life or destruction and our job is to be smothered by the tension. But this is not how the picture is in the ot wisdom books. The fear of God is simply allowing Gods word to determine our reality. The teaching itself is the event along the path to life. What we have here is tension described as holding onto the teaching we received by grace. If we allow the law to be used as a tool of force then we are denying that inability was the root cause of our blindness in our former way of life. Here is how these false ideas bring us rite back to our slavery under the law. They will say that our justification before God gives us an ability to keep the law. In short they want to move from saving grace to a state where we do not cheapen grace . This is the state of sanctification. So we have this invented paradox. Its our justification before God as represented as free but our sanctification before God is paid for grace. In other words there is not tension that exist in our being saved. It was all God. But now they say the new relationship has tension to prove that grace is not cheap. The problem is that our whole position as Christ described it in the gospels is one of living in agony to glory. What is He saying?  Christ is not creating tension for the sake of proving something is worth the journey in order to obtain glory. But Christ is teaching that we must not be removed from our position of grace in standing our ground!We are not the offensive power to overcome the roadblocks that stand in our way. Rather the teaching that we receive from the Spirit acts as a kind of path way that we should not go to the rite or the left ... we go straight ahead as the word is the way of life.  This is the picture of the redeemed. They are people who are defined by their inability to move along this path by self effort. We are not teaching passiveness but a success way in the teaching! The success is a way of thinking. The success is thinking to focus and glory. Our teaching creates the soil for our gazing on Christ and this is the agony! Our agony is represented by growing down. Or its hating what is evil and loving what is good. This is a word universe. We remove what we hate by word. We destroy what we are divided by in word. Traitors are idols that we develop in our minds because we are confused about our love and hate. The agony is seeing the world as God defines it. The agony is not a self inflicted curse but the teaching that we avoided curses in the saving word. The saving word is our way of thinking unto salvation. We have a way of thinking that cannot fail.  The Pharisees focused on mans struggles between grace and the law. They believed like Kk that man had a free will and was in need of the force of the law to keep man from cheapening grace. Kk talks about our will as wrestling with God for control through the 12 step and the level of sorrow over sin.. proof that we mean business by apologizing to men.. and in the end a total perfect control will develop. But we are saying in essence that our will is not going to prove we are acceptable to God. Only our focus on Christ who is the word of God. So that the teaching of Christ is both holistic in each word of grace and holistic in understanding the way we apply it.     Reply Quote Notify 2753  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Death of the "eternal torture" doctrine on: March 05, 2011, 12:41:15 PM Kk is like the Kevorkian of theology. He is trying to paint a picture of God being nice in His punishment by destroying what He created. He has a God that jumps from recreation before the judgment to a God of annihilation as a result of God as judge declaring that men will no longer be in existence as a punishment. Kk also raves and rages about mans free will prior to the judgment but Kk teaches that man does not even get respected in his own respect for life as a complete free will paradigm. In Kks world God is a judge on the health care panel to determine whether a man is thwarted in his free will. And yet even us Calvinist do not believe in teaching an art form of suicide.Because we are consistent in our understanding of free will and we prove it by God allowing man to get what he wants!!!  Kk is teaching that a wicked man who wants to commit suicide should because after all God will in the end annihilate him anyway. Kk gives Kevorkian followers the license to justify their own extinction from this earth. After all if God is in the business of extinction why should it be wrong for man to do the same? What is wrong with what Hitler did because Kk teaches that mans desire to live is thwarted by God why shouldnt it be done correctly like God by another man?  But we believe that God created man as a free moral agent in order that man could enjoy his freedom in this life and the next. We show our teaching about free will to be consistent with the character of God. We do not put a smile on our face and talk about the annihilation of the human race as if it was a kind act. Thats in Kks mind.   Reply Quote Notify 2754  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and memory on: March 05, 2011, 08:17:12 AM Memory is not an accurate account of what a person is like. All of us are only as mysterious as we understand ourselves as spiritual beings. The reasons we do things is not from a view of what we are told we do them. But there are good reasons why we sin. Memory enforces the prejudice. As i have said that the only way we are going to know ourselves is if we know who God is. Or we first look at ourselves and are honest in Gods assessment of us. This honesty is not from impersonal relationships but we are always unable to accomplish anything without personal powers. Memory is kind of like an impersonal friend. Because it is from our view of the world that we attach reasons and connections to things that are imaginative. We must see that memory is part of our corruption but the Lord deals with us in the present by His assessment of our entire lives.  There is a mystery of connection to what He reminds us in His language of Spirit and word that create who we are from our past in light of the grace that we have received that gives us an individual identity.  The world is a place where the past was impossible that it should be any different. Because the present is a creation of the villains and heroes that depended upon every thing from its beginning.Because the world was the events decreed by God so that memory is in the Lord. We must see that memory does not define who we are but we are in the present as to our individuality as we define memory.  The Lord erases our past sin and weakness so that our view of personal attention to detail is our righteous indignation as God would defend us. This is why people carry around an angry core because they live in a two dimensional world.  You know i will cut across the grain of the  philosophical stigmas created by modern day psychological prejudice. This whole section will be focused on Psalm 25...God is eternal and He exist through all generations. We are finite and we must not be defined by our present generation. When he has deconstructed this generational code he is left with transparency and a plea at the end. I only know this by experiencing this Psalm through meditation for many yrs. Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.    Remove Reply Quote Notify 2755  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Radical Love on: March 05, 2011, 08:02:09 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 05, 2011, 02:59:17 AM Me thinketh the student doth outstrip the maestro evader. [Bowing low in acknowledgment of superior potential to spot sneaky manipulations of mind and gab.] I got the visual on your ((())).  Mine was more ethereal than visual.  Kind of like vibes" of yesteryear.  Some hippies never grow up.  So where are we?  Do we agree to agree, or to disagree?  How about we take a more honest look at what each of us wrote a few posts ago, and see if we actually can harmonize what seemed to be conflict originally?  Miracles do still happen, i hear/see.  Kk you are so easy to figure out. Religious language can be manipulated into your own moral perspective. Theres a big difference between having an overall view of the word usage in the text and using it for ones own purposes. With you there is always an underlying message. Reply Quote Notify 2756  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Radical Love on: March 03, 2011, 02:41:38 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 03, 2011, 02:34:06 PM rr quoting Scripture:  "And He said to him, " YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'  38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.  39 "The second is like it, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." did everyone catch that?? think about that one.. 40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." " K_k:  Yes, these are the two Summary Commandments.  The first one, love for God, summarizes the detail of the fIrst four Commandments written by Him, in stone, for us.  The second one, love for neighbors like we love ourselves, is the summary of the last six of the written Commandments. And on these two Commandments, as expressed through the 10 Commandments, and through their expansion into greater detail, hang all the rules, and the prophets and the disciples, and hung the Lord of love on the Cross.  We can never obey them without Him living in and through us, for He is the only power of righteousness.  That was the "mystery" of the OT, which the prophets foresaw but may not have fully understood, now revealed in Jesus to be "God with us", "God in us", writing His Law through our lives. Isn't redundancy fun? rr quoting Scripture:  "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." K_k:  The ceremonial and sacrificial laws were a yoke leading them to need for a Savior.  And those laws were fulfilled to completion in the Perfect Sacrifice of the Lamb of God.  The eternal moral Laws of love were fulfilled but never ended, instead they are made alive through the grace of the Lord Jesus.  And "in the same way as they also" were, mankind has always, and will always, only be saved when they are directly connected to God, our Dad, through the Son.  For mankind was created "in the Image of God", Who is Christ Jesus.  But the Fall was a severing of the connection with Dad, and it had to be restored, as predicted, by Him becoming Man, dieing to free us, rising to empower us.  Empower us to live out His love Laws, falteringly now, perfectly on that Day when He comes to get us. rr quoting Scripture:  "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." K_k:  Yes, the Holy Spirit, Who would never even hint that we are no longer to keep the moral Commandments of God, gave the approval to no longer observe all the sacrificial laws, but only gave guidelines to help keep them from falling back into the old system.  No one, especially the followers of Jesus, would have thought the Commandments were ended at the Cross, but would have experienced first-hand what the fulfillment of those Directions looks like in human form, and they would know that such obedience for us, in His power and grace, to our Dad's perfect rules gives His Ressurection Life human form through us. And thus is the long controversy between Law and Grace ended -- in freedom to obey The Father, through The Son, in the gracefulness of the Spirit.  Which is always the only Way the Commandments of God can be actually done. Repetition can be good for the soul, they say. I cant let this go .. i will respond to this later. Reply Quote Notify 2757  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Footprints in the sand on: March 03, 2011, 01:47:06 PM Kk.. i love your heart and you have a way of keeping to your beliefs. I hope you can respond to TB not in an indirect way like saying that he should appreciate the help ... i mean... any help with a good attitude. I think TBs attitude is more truthful.. just tell him you disagree in a fundamental way..  Kk if we could get together i would take you into a bar and have one drink. Just kidding. But TB may have other things ... no problem is the same. Tb may need more personal attention. But he is rite on in the underling message that we have been discussing. I got an assignment for you. Kk.. i want to know if you have been reading my post. So if you can tell me in your words what i believe about why i have doubts about all of what you believe.In other words tell me what i told you about the sermon on the mount etc. Thanks.   Reply Quote Notify 2758  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Confusion in the Sand on: March 03, 2011, 10:55:05 AM TB the only person who i consider the toughest was the apostle Paul. That man could be in any situation and find confidence at some point. I wish i were like him but God appointed him to a life of pain. So i would rather be someone who does not find that kind of strength and let God shield me from the abusers of the law. This is why the closest people to me seem to all have some kind of handicap. Tb the truth is i can count on one hand who i have met in my life like the apostle Paul. The truth is that handicaps help us to sin more and they give us trials were we practice the same sin. But think of this ... could you imagine a person who could go anywhere... talk to anyone... talk about anything... be the leader not only by mouth but in vision and personal intuition... but still say... he was the worse of sinners? This apostle who was more flexible than any man on this earth was handicapped. Thank God that He grades on a curve cause most men will enter to the other side with the same handicap they were born with. The rest are just imaginary man pleasing.  Reply Quote Notify 2759  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Confusion in the Sand on: March 03, 2011, 10:42:32 AM Quote from: toadbat on March 01, 2011, 05:48:31 PM A man awoke feeling very strangely, just having the most confusing dream. He cried out to the Lord and said: "Lord, Please help me to understand this; I have just had a dream which I found to be both confusing and disturbing. In the dream I saw a hole, issuing from that hole were two small furrows which seemed to go on a ways and then abruptly stopped, leaving a small depression. Just after that depression I saw footprints going every which way as if in some kind of mad dance. Then, everything went dark, and there was finally a peace. Please Lord, tell me what this dream means!" The Lord spoke unto the man and said: "My child, the hole which you saw in your dream was your grave. The two furrows which you saw proceeding from your grave were your heel marks as I dragged you out of it. The depression in the ground was the spot where I dropped you and finally breathed life into you. The part after where it looked like you were doing the funky chicken was you trying to perfect what I had just given you by gyrations of the flesh. That is when I had to cold-cock you and carry you here." "Any other questions?" LMAO.. Reply Quote Notify 2760  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and memory on: March 03, 2011, 09:12:55 AM I remember in the 70s a shift in the way things were thought about to create a society of health. We began to study memory. This shift was through the ideas of Freud. He believed that all problems was from repressed memory. Freud was a therapist of neurotic women. He developed a philosophy from his times in which he would get woman to recall their past and then he would study their recollections and develop a remedy in his writings. The people who disagreed with him were accusing him of an over focus on self. They were saying that this would create a society in which men would focus on themselves only and create more selfishness in our daily lives. Then there are some people who have a philosophy of paradox. They see everything as necessary because of the freedom to examine these things to find a healthy balance between theology and science. I used to go from the therapist to the theologian like i was playing ping-pong. My own personal experience as a young child was that i had a very high awareness of the spiritual nature of things. So i was not able to process this as a teenager in order to know which way i was going to go. It wasnt until i found that i had a high level of frustration because i needed a lot of intellectual stimulus. My whole countenance and level of confidence changed when i started to focus on the Bible. I know some people look at this and accuse me of being a blow hard but seriously ... i would have ended up in a mental institution if i hadnt over acheived in this area. This is not for everybody... because i would no wish this level of desperation on anyone. I mean as an initial experience.  But we must see that memory is inconsistent. The philosophy of memory is the creation of a world in which we find acceptance in the causes of our reaction to trouble out of a sense of our own worth ... this is our present grid of truth and we put the world in a dependent relationship by finding the causes of our problems in these former relationships in our memory. I believe memory is was a gift by God to create an image of ourselves out of a sense of forgetfulness of the bad things and an acceptance of how God defines who we are as eternally accepted beyond this earth. Memory is a denial that wrongs were committed ...out of a sense of our sinful inabilities and an understanding of Gods retribution skills....out of a power that causes us to be different than we were formed in the mold of the world in this time sequence. I do not think our problems are in our memory of the way things were in our past but our memory is created by two things. First we find all of our confidence in God. Or each one of us is special in our Fathers memory. So we must find the voice of our great Shepherd to be the guard over what we hear see taste and touch. We create memory by what we say...as a focus as opposed to Freud talk. As opposed to men treating us in a cavalier way.  The second is we must be made to feel taste see and know the eternal in our present experience by our renewed past. Because memory is as the present. We really go from the past to the future. This is why memory is experience as finding the truth. Memory is a created relational reality. When the psalmist talks about memory He uses it as what God remembers. This means that just as salvation is a state in which we have no idols desire to speech to temporary experience...so memory is an understanding that God is God because He made us acceptable in His counsel before all of this earthly experience started. In other words our experience in memory is determined by our giving God all of our experience on this earth and finding our confidence in Him alone! There are some other things that are related to this as a healthy exercise i will get into.