2761	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse	on: March 03, 2011, 08:12:16 AM
Reality is the understanding of the order of things as God defines them. Because God knows the beginning from the end. This is how the order of the natural causes are worked out in the confusion that sin causes. Not only do the second causes create a kind of confusion of order but there is a rebound as the order of things creates a confusion. This is why mans systems have a purpose in them whos ends rebound to create in the confusion of the order of things ...these principles of man create the world of neuroses they are purposed to eliminate.  If we think about the multiple effects of things going and coming in the system of men then we will see the earth as a place of utter confusion. This is why God is in heaven and we are on earth. Because God is eternal and we are finite. God sees the beginning from the end and the end from the beginning. We have here the reversal of the order of time in tribe language people and nation ... being the natural finite order and then we come to this chapt and we have it reversed. In Gods design of the universe...He creates order out of the confusion of mans designs.    The bible tells us that we are strangers and aliens in this time sequence. Because as things degrade into corruption the time sequence is becoming more and more a strange land. Man is born to create confusion. Because not only is man corrupted in his actions but man is corrupted in his reasoning powers. So that man looks at these things in small increments of time. This is called process theology. Man creates his own process in which he imagines that he is the mover of cultural precision. But man is digging a hole for the righteous to fall into and ends up falling the hole himself. Because the cause of all of the confusion in this world is through mans reasoning powers and they create the process that causes all of the neuroses that its trying to cure. We must start with God who orders all things for His purpose including the meta physical neuroses of mans causes and ends. The ends being the returns of reality rebounding in creating confusion in the process.  This is why God must override mans attempts. Because men are secularist at heart. They look at things and causes only in the physical. They do not see other men in a personal sense. The disease of sin and death has blinded men to seeing the universe as a personal one. In order for the universe to be viewed as personal we must acknowledge that God has ordained whatsoever comes to pass. God defines truth. Because God is not only the teacher but He is the truth. We say that God is because He has existed as God in eternity and there is no past or present with God. As God is so is the determination of all that exist in time.  Man is dead in sins and trespasses. Man has died a spiritual death. The only life is in God. Men are dead men walking. I am not talking about worm theology here. God has given us this book in order to see that eternity is described with an understanding that is different from this time sequence. We are made to think of things that are eternal so that we might be the creators of order in this time sequence. God promises to give us wisdom in these daily illuminations of eternity.
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2762  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and memory on: March 01, 2011, 08:35:59 PM Quote from: jenni on March 01, 2011, 06:13:54 PM Quote from: mybigGod on February 26, 2011, 03:46:41 PM In todays understanding of the mode of teaching we enforce equal powers to our position in the world and our understanding of ourselves and God. But this is not biblical. Please explain. Jenni thanks for asking... i will respond tomorrow. Got to get up early for work... but i have a lot to say about your question. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2763  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: March 01, 2011, 08:26:03 PM The third dimension understanding of righteousness is the central basis of our salvation and our sanctification. Because people naturally try to impose their prejudice on the moral equation in light of judging things by the law of God. First we need to understand that God alone is righteous. He is in heaven and He not only is the alone law giver but He alone is the judge and the jury. This is why all earthly systems of government are subject to being removed out of the way. Because God will not share his glory with another man. That glory is in His Son alone. God gives man their position and in weighing their ability to deal justly they have been found wanting. So God gives us a living proof of what dependence is. Because He turns the system of man upside down. We view these things of righteousness as advancing in a two dimensional system of checks and balances. But this is not the God centered view of the universe. God has His covenant people who gather together before the only judge of the universe. We look at the wheels of democracy and conclude that our system declares men guilty or innocent. But God works in a different system. God sits on His throne as the judge and He puts his feet on the earth in justice. This is why God adjudicates through His earthly covenant people. Because justice is a matter of faith and grace rather than the system of man. When God comes to judge He comes in the gathering of His people. This is why His feet are that communication in which He works through His Son who is the representative of that faithful gathering of the saints. The gathering of the saints is a gathering of soldiers who are in the Lords army. When God comes in the assembly He makes all things rite. He examines His people by the preaching of His word and He declares them as the judge and jury of all the world. This is why God comes as the great Judge before His people. He empowers them to rule the earth as kings and queens. He sends them out as accepted soldiers who advance His kingdom and thwart the system of man by resisting to blood. God advances the justice system of this earth through identifying with His church. We are to understand that Gods righteousness is His prerogative to do as He pleases in declaring whom ever He pleases to be not guilty. All men stand condemned before God. All men have gone their own way. All men have designed the universe to try and thwart the Justice of God. But God has the rite to place His righteousness as a sign of His covenant love to advance His kingdom through His righteous ones. Because God does not work through systems of man as if He needed man. Instead God decrees whatsoever comes to pass. God does not need man to prove that He is righteous. Instead God works to defend His people to display His righteousness to the world to undeserved sinners. The reason that God will not allow a man to share His glory is because man must be totally dependent upon God as the one who declares what is just. In the third dimension those who call upon this great Judge are those who have been declared righteous.  The reason is that God does not chose people based upon the worlds standards. But God chooses a people who are unworthy in the worlds eyes. God has a secret justice system that is controlled by the gathering of the heavenly beings who worship God night and day. From that gathering God ready s His forces ... the angels whos power is unfathomable and whos number cannot be counted. He gets His chariot ready to come to the rescue of His poor and helpless saints. The world system is advancing and they are trying to thwart Gods purposes in attacking the helpless . But God hears the cries of His saints and He intervenes with His mighty army to save them from death. God just ends are out of His gracious promise to save a people for Himself and to protect them by His righteous rite hand.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2764  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: Labor vs Management on: March 01, 2011, 11:18:43 AM We need to understand that the world is turning in on itself. We are now in a catch 22 situation. Our leaders are caught in between world hunger and hiper inflation and the out of control agencies along with the scandalous banks and corporations. In these other countries we are witnessing the public display of desperation due to high food prices. This means that when people are hungry they will act in a way that brings on a revolution. The problem is that people will experience a loss of freedom. This means that it will increase the personal jealousy and envy because of the arbitrary decisions of the ruling class. This is the first time in American history where there has been such a serious decline in common grace... freedom to obtain a certain way of life that people are experiencing a kind of slavery that is born out of no hope for the future. The only hope is changing the current political. But this reversal has never happened in the fundamental way that we need to do it. So we are looking at a future in which America will no longer parallel its constitutional system.        Reply Quote Notify

2765  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Did you come to love Jesus through the Bible and\or prayer? on: March 01, 2011, 10:26:30 AM God has spoken. He speaks in a language of the soul. God has a disposition of love. When we address God as Father we are connecting in our communication to a real Person. But this Person is speaks in a way that is totally aware as if we were unaware in listening. So that God speaks to us in His divine pre conceived idea of reality. We live in a certain tension of an understanding of ourselves and a mis understanding. But God speaks in a way that He communicates to us an understanding outside the complexity of our burdens of time. The problems are that we do not allow Him to fellowship with us in a way where we talk to Him like He is. If we could completely focus on God as He is then we would be without tension because God is all glorious by His control over all things. And we would experience the goodness in the connection of all things. God cannot take control of our faculties in order to by pass the natural condition of our hearts. Because God will show Himself by the freedom to communicate to us in the most free way in our corrupted condition. If God were not absolutely free in light of His attributes then we would reflect that bondage in some way. We have been gifted with being enabled to seek God with all of our hearts. This means that the language of our redeemed self is the natural longings that connect us to God as Father so that we are drawn into a kind of consuming love outside of the tensions of this world. I mean this in the context that we are to glorify God by enjoying Him forever so that in seeking the light of His glory we focus on Him as the highest pleasure. The only way is out of a sense of who we are before Him in our way of dwelling in His absolute sovereignty over all things that flows to us in an immunation of Himself as an experience.This is having an experience of losing the powers of temporal things so that He is experienced as our all in all.  Reply Quote Notify

2766  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Did you come to love Jesus through the Bible and\or prayer? on: March 01, 2011, 09:23:32 AM What we need to understand here is that God is interested in the long process. Now i know some of us use that as requiring something in us that we do not have the power at that time to do or ignore. But God doesnt come to us with these 5 things to do in order to grow to know Him. God is ... His presence is all we need and then all is well. Because we are not talking about a problem that involves something we do mainly but its a problem of spiritual cancer... its terminal. Or we are lepers ... i mean.. in how we know reality to be in this world. How we view things as to how we feel. There is no temporary holding pattern where we can evaluate enough to begin to change. Its all God or its misery. But God knows how we are made... He sees the spirit part. God knows that if we know who He is by experience then we will be aware when He comes. We cant see God nor can we be certain that God is who He says He is by the word on the page. He is in the business of convincing us that every word He speaks is complete and trustworthy. Not only that but He wants us to know that He is speaking to us in order for us to be wooed so to speak. How can we feel free to know who we are and yet be pleasing to God in a way that everything is made rite in that connection? Well God must present us with that knowledge in His present acting. This is like a communication to us in using human qualities to explain His personal connection to us. But in assimilating this into our souls we begin to grow in our awareness that these human qualities are much greater in ability to work than the normal human potential. So that it sorta produces a supernatural experience of healing the soul. This is our understanding of Christ. If there was someone who was a long way away and He was totally unlike any person we had ever met ... how do you think he would communicate to us... since he had so many ways of communication that we had not experienced prior among humans? He would do it in the form of the closest way to connect with us in how we think feel and act. In other words he would make us want to be more than we could be if we did not know him. He would use the most personal language to connect with us. Well Gods love letter is more than that... the language itself is so personal that it produces in us something far greater than just a description of who He is.  So that we can actually think ...feel and say the most personal things to Him that would cause us to wonder whether we could experience too much... we would almost be consumed in our connection. Think about this. Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. « Reply #26 on: February 26, 2010, 04:36:48 PM »    Reply Quote Notify

2767  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Radical Love on: March 01, 2011, 03:03:42 AM Kk... for the sake of peace lets move on. Obviously you havent read our disagreements with the 12 step or you would acknowledge them in an effort to argue against them. The truth is you have an ability to ignore what another person is saying .... your like a machine gun of verses and steps with a program mentality. You havent provided the intellectual basis for what you believe. In my opinion you totally ignored TBs assessment of the situation out of a improper interpretation of scripture. It looked like to me you were telling him he needed a little bit more of the same. Thats what legalistic people do. Your way isnt an argument but a sales pitch. <a theory that is based upon an argument with a denial and then using the the same concepts with different words to make your point. But i do not see anything wrong with a program to cure someone of a physical addiction. The 12step is one of many. Kk I am trying to help you... listen to this http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=55101023133 Reply Quote Notify

2768  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: 10 Commandments versus Law of Moses on: February 27, 2011, 11:02:53 PM http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/living-grace/player/the-christian-life-166279.html Reply Quote Notify

2769  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: February 26, 2011, 06:11:12 PM In the third dimension God decrees whatsoever comes to pass.  This means that everything including evil has a purpose only because God causes it to be. If anything did not occur from this cause then man is the ultimate god. The reason that God decreed evil was to show Himself as good with the back drop of what is evil. Every free thought whether good or evil produces a context of truth. Because thoughts are like inanimate acts. So each thought is an introduction of some kind of power. God is most free when He determines how He is going to show His glory in working in evil and good in the displaying of it. This is why in the third dimension all power is caused by God to determine our experience. If God gave us an equal ability to do something or not to do it then we have our own power as a necessary ability that works with Gods power. But in the spiritual dimension our ability or lack is determined by Gods strength. We are totally dependent beings. Any independence means that we possess god like strength. Total dependence means that we cannot do anything without Him. So we consider ourselves sinners because we are sinners by nature.  We do not see our sin in light of our deeds. Our deeds prove that we are sinners by nature and we reason that we are weak in ourselves. So in this dimension sin is like a person who is desiring to consume us but God is holding sin back as the only power that we have to resist. We must see that God conditions us to sin because of our present need to experience our sinful condition. Because God has given us His nature we have a desire to please Him in everything. Our present experience is when we want to do good evil is rite there with us. Or evil easily leads us astray. But God is able to keep us from falling and give us the experience of His power and at the same time let us experience our own evil nature while gifting us with His vision of divine grace and love. We must be open to God who examines us in this way so that we will know Him as the Most honorable sovereign law keeper who produces in us this process of  sinners being protected by His work on our behalf and at the same time bringing us through the pleasure of sin and blessing us because He is the God of grace. In the third dimension we have a happy life as sinners. If you talk to yourself this way then it will lead you to salvation ...both the undeceived personal kind and the ongoing kind. But if you tell yourself that there is something you can bring into this grace then you will talk yourself into a hard death and possibly damn your soul. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2770  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: February 26, 2011, 04:52:19 PM  The third dimension is a reality of love and hate. The love is defined by Gods moving reality both in our minds and in the world to defend our purposes out of His love ... our desires teach us the future of our finding perfect love and defining the line that we are to hate. In the third dimension hate is expressed by mortification. Putting to death. Love is expressed by the success we have in the third dimension. Both love and hate are righteous fulfillment in His kingdom.  What we hate we want removed ... put out of the way. This is not evil. This is not selfish. In the third dimension our inner experience is not thwarted by our sinful desires. But our sinful desires are consumed in His desires. Our success comes out of this consuming. On the one hand we are involved with decomposing all of the opposition to our consumed cause. In the spiritual dimension all of our desires whether sinful or noble are the gift of God to us in order to create the future of the world. There is no such thing as our being transparent before God by withholding something out of fear of who we are. Everything we long for whether sinful or noble has already been examined by God and it works out for our good. So that in coming before God we are transparent when we are putting to death out of hate. He consumes and decomposes in the event at the same time. This is why we can be inventors and move world events out of our own inner experience of His light.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2771  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and memory on: February 26, 2011, 03:46:41 PM Teaching is a form of a conversation with memory. Memory is the former path way that enforces this connection to sorrow and guilt. Natural memory is a world of treachery. Because memory is a kind of traitor. It rises up as a power to destroy our faith. But if memory is moved along by the teaching path then it becomes the voice of super-naturalism. This is why faith and memory are both foes and friends. Memory is as fickle as our propensity to stray from our path of teaching. This is why the apostle was the teacher of grace. Because the apostle was a notorious criminal. The world enforces philosophical methods as a mechanism to clear the evil memory. But memory is mainly a mode of experience. Because every experience is what we view the circumstance to be by our understanding of the world, ourselves and who God is as a past happening. Memory is the experience of who we are. This is why there is this misunderstanding of ourselves as to our gifts, our reputation and our spiritual awareness in which we measure our growth along the path we are going. In todays understanding of the mode of teaching we enforce equal powers to our position in the world and our understanding of ourselves and God. But this is not biblical. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2772  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: February 26, 2011, 01:49:42 PM cont. kudos to    Group 1 Crew - Walking On The Stars  Wow! what talent. I see my life sometimes and I ask why My heart became like stone and turned to ice Tell me what have I become But you came just in time like a shooting star Across my universe out of the dark Tell me what have I become Take me away You save me from myself and all I do Cause life just ain't the same when I'm with you I can climb the sky (you got me) walking on the stars I see life through new set of eyes Set on someone different that I never realized Outside my mind is a lost world that lies But step into my thoughts you'll believe you can fly Your words like wings gravity they defy My heart like a leaf on the wind catchin' rides They say we can’t make it at least we gotta try We make too much sense to foolishly pass it by So I’m taking a rainbow up to the 5th floor Steppin out to see that you’re really worth more And I see our love in 3D No more 2 dimensional worries Climb until the sky don’t exist no more That’s when I’ll knock knock on your front door Find More lyrics at www.sweetslyrics.com Open to the possibilities I ignored But I know now exactly what our love was meant for Lord, take me away You save me from myself and all I do Cause life just ain't the same when I'm with you I can climb the sky (you got me) walking on the stars (Now) I can see my life from way up high And all my troubles I once knew I left behind I can climb the sky (you got me) walking on the stars And I can see much more clear When I’m lost in your atmosphere You pull me close to the place Where you’re always waiting So I won’t stop, the walls are down Make my way at the speed of sound Hold me now Hold me now Lord, take me away You save me from myself and all I do Cause life just ain't the same when I'm with you I can climb the sky (you got me) walking on the stars (Now) I can see my life from way up high And all my troubles I once knew I left behind I can climb the sky (you got me) walking on the stars Remove Reply Quote Notify

2773  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: February 26, 2011, 12:52:55 PM In this dissection of these three realities is how these nt letters were taught. Man has his own set of beliefs that are in direct opposition to Gods ways. So man naturally conspires these principles of doctrine in order force himself as the arbitrator of his culture. I look at the letters of the apostle and this is what he starts off with in opposing mans systems. The apostle teaches doctrine. The doctrine is laid out like a single path way. It cannot fail. Because Christ has subdued all the kingdoms of this world and brought to not their schemes. He has focused not necessarily on the poor and fatherless but on the high places because all the order of the earth is the ultimate blame at the top. God proves that He rules from the heavens by ordering the grace that must override the kings of this earth so that the lower class may not be destroyed. The doctrine is not a church order only but a complete world view. Its interesting that we have this foundation of doctrine put in place and instead of going rite to the commands the apostle draws us into the third dimension in practice. He purposes to teach us as if the teaching itself produces the reality of each step along the path. This is why we have the responsibility to let the word of Christ dwell in us richly. Singing psalms , hymns , spiritual songs. Now if i were a present day pastor this is would be my main focus. The pivotal problems that are leading us to experience this downward spiral are in these verses.  On the doctrinal side man produces his own teaching. It is called mans systematic man centered universe. On the practical side man reduces reality to a process and creates images that are demonic. But in the middle is the Psalmist way of composing and decomposing the self of man. Let me give you the purpose of the way the letters were written. They were written to create a new man. Listen to me.. they were not written to produce a world view in which doctrine is on one side and practice is equal on the other side. All of religion is half of the equation that makes balance. This is what i call paradox. Man loves paradox because the power of one is destroyed by its equal counterpart. What we have here is the decomposition of the system of man in order to compose a kind of symphony that is heavenly. Because heaven is a musical masterpiece of order. This is why the Psalmist produces his theology of desire . Because the world is won or lost in the heart of each man. Doctrine is composed in the world of God does everything and man does everything or God works in and through us to perform. The middle encouragement is the denouncing of these two extremes. Mans attempt to twist the first part in order to avoid this decomposition of the natural world so that man can reduce everything to his authoritative edicts. But we must see that the teaching is the one way and we are shielded by the principles of man on this way through decomposing the system of man in these Psalms. Then we will see that we can only work when we are enabled.    Remove Reply Quote Notify

2774	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Radical Love	on: February 25, 2011, 03:17:48 PM
Kk ... i am not trying to be condemning of anyone here. I think some people get help and change. I raised two kids and both are extremely orthodox. They understand what my values are. I do not consider myself as a good counselor but i like arguing for the faith. I write things from my perspective of the counseling i have received. My wife counseled a lot of young woman along the way... degree in nursing. I like you because you disagree with me and it challenges me to get a perspective. I have friends who are 12 steppers. I am a middle age guy. I grow up when all of this stuff was just starting to become a part of our culture. I have personal experiences ... i drank but for fun not to get drunk... i never have been drunk. My sons understand my position. I have a very well adjusted son that has never given me a reason to think otherwise. I believe that all problems... the common grace ones ... come from a way of life and not the passed down foibles of the parents. I have witnessed through yrs of this that parents with all kinds of problems have done really well with their kids. The only thing we required was that they teach in home schooling. We havent witnessed all of these societal child like behaviors and anti social tendencies.  We just belonged to a community of faith and taught our own kids and hung together. In my opinion this is the secret to avoiding a life filled with drama. Along with proper doctrine.  Most of the problems people have are because they just dont want to build their lives around the family structure. I am not saying there is any way... each family had their own way of doing things. Some families were extremely disciplined. Some families were more social oriented and spent their money in that way in community events. This is not rock science .. and we did not go out to create problems. Life is very simple ... people think things are true most of the time just to create friction. The rule was spend time with the kids and teach them at home.... Thats all. no big neurotic mind set.  If people would just focus on the simple things the other things would become normal. But when everyone wants their marriage partner to be perfect then it creates problems. I am not what you would consider a person without some kind of handicap. The people i avoided were the ones i knew wanted to change me. I avoided it because i was focused on the things that needed to be accomplished with my kids. The community of people came from all different faiths but we all had one thing in common. Raising our kids as a focus. Now we get the benifits of peace when they are old enough to think for themselves. As i said we make things more difficult than they are. I mean... as an epistemology not talking about doctrine. In my doctrine ...it explains how i moved around in community and about opposing things in order to create this life style. Personal wisdom. 2776  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Radical Love on: February 25, 2011, 02:28:17 PM K_k:  Is it subterfuge to help people admit the truth about themselves, help them see they need God, help them trust and depend on Him, help them tell the truth about their lives, help them clean up their past with His assistance, help them grow in humility by relying on His directions and power, help them serve others like the people they once were? Is it really mass marketing to encourage people to admit they are powerless, unmanageable and unsane without God in their lives.  With nothing to sell/buy but truth, no price for admission except personal defeat, no glory in the eyes of the world if we remain anonymous as suggested?  If you will study the 12 "traditions" you will see that the fellowships are structured primarily to be dependent on God. In fact the "2nd Tradition" states it as "For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority -- a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience.  Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern."  Is it mass marketing to serve as trusted servants of God through working with others, looking to Him as our ultimate authority? Sounds like a recipe for mass confusion. I am not down playing the role playing routine in order to get them to talk. We should mourn with those who mourn. But other than that this is disaster waiting to happen.  I will make it simple. The Spirit is the inward motivator not us. And the word is the rule of behavior ... its more direct and creates authority that cannot be questioned. The word is the communication skill that governs the group meeting. Maybe this could be done better .. one on one with a qualified student of Gods word. I am not down playing Gods sovereign work even if the stuff is confusing either. My other thing that i have experienced ... being in so much of this in my life in the religious community is that if you start talking about Gods sovereignty ..i mean in an indirect way... not loaded guns thingy....then it usually marks the end of the conversation. I think i have had more experience than Kk.   Reply Quote Notify 2777  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: February 25, 2011, 02:02:55 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on February 25, 2011, 01:05:38 PM mbG:  "This is why we define our faith as we are separated from the Christ that dwells in us by His Spirit so that our identity by the words reflect our healthy understanding of who God is and who we are." K_k:  I'm not sure what you are saying, since you seem to contradict yourself, but let me put it this way.  Jesus Christ lives in and through every Believer.  His unending Life becomes our very own, and we grow in abiding in Him so that He flows through us. "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.  I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."  John 15:4-5 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith of the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself for me."  Galatians 2:20 mbG:  "But we fellowship with a real historical figure who dwells in us by His Spirit. This means that we must understand that He knows our weaknesses better than we know them. This is the definition of His condescending love to us. His work and our work are not the same." K_k:  We fellowship with a real person Who dwells in us by His Spirit, and He knows our weaknesses far better than we do.  For Him to live in us, as sinful as we still are, is definitely condescending love for us.  His work becomes our work as we choose His will over our own.  Thus are we united in His love, and abide in Him. mbG:  "This is why redemption is His work alone. He redeemed his people by His work alone. He decided who He would redeem alone... He did the work alone and He determined to keep them for all eternity by His power alone. So we look at all of the causes of our acceptance in someone who is a person who lives in us by His Spirit. We are only accepted because He already earned our acceptance. We cannot add one good thing to His identity." K_k:  Redemption is His work and we, by His grace, are free to accept it or reject it.  In God's foreknowledge He sees the ending from the beginning and knows our every decision before we make any.  He alone can keep us for eternity and He only does so if we sincerely want Him to do so.  He earned our acceptance with God, and He earns our acceptance of Him, but never forces us to accept Him as the Savior He is. mbG:  "In our christian experience we find that we are the objects of the Fathers love. This means that God grades on a curve for us. He is teaching everyone of us on a different level in what looks like we have to many problems to over come. If we say that it depends upon us to trust in Gods works on this earth then we are not being honest about our own propensities to wander. We must see that anytime we look at our walk on this earth that we appear to be an incomplete work. Because all of us are individuals and we all must find a place in which we have the courage to go on. God is not asking us to put the world on our shoulders and trust Him." K_k:  We are definitely kids that our Dad loves perfectly.  We are not graded on a curve, if we are His, but all receive a passing 100% in Christ.  And as we grow to understand and accept that more fully, be also grow in trust of Him, that He always knows best, and has only the very best possible future planned for us.  And though our trust will waver when we take our "spiritual eyes" off Him and see only the undesirable conditions around us, He helps us refocus and renews our trust as only He can do, with our cooperation replacing our resistance.  Christ never asks us to put the world on our shoulders, just trust that He has it on His, and He will help us experience that. mbG:  "God must keep us from temptation.. sin... weakness and trouble by making our path straight and flat to walk on. He can only do this by over looking our sins when we fall... or forgetting our sin by removing them from us... and He must grant us illuminations to be what we are not. So that He causes us to dwell on His word and He strengthens us through His Spirit. This is why we look like an incomplete work of art because Christ makes our picture complete by going before us." K_k:  God often does not keep us from temptation, weakness or trouble, but grows us closer to Himself through them.  He makes our crooked, sinful, spiritual paths more straight as we rely more on Him and less on ourselves.  He inspires us to dwell in His Word which strengthens us through the Holy Spirit. We will be an incomplete "work of art" until we "see Him as He is" and "become like Him".  Until then, our Dad sees that future finished Master's-Piece, which makes us "keepers" for time beyond time, as His kids, starting today (well, OK, starting before the Creation, but to us it seems more current). "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."  1 John 3:2 mbG:  "Anger is a form of protection. It is part of us that gives us emotional balance. There is no reason to take the anger out on someone else. Anger is fueled by blame. This is why people have an angry core. There is no paradox in this doctrinal approach. God is a covenant loving God whos honor is protected by His approach to anger." K_k:  Man's anger is based on fear in most cases.  It is not emotional balance, but necessary at times to produce change.  Anger must sometimes be taken out on someone else if the Spirit of God empowers us to stop evil happening before us. People have a fearful core, since they are playing God to one degree or another, and deep down we know we aren't very good at being gods.  That fear is uncomfortable to experience, and is easily masked by anger at others since that makes us feel more powerful. God is angry at anything which can harm His kids.  And we will see that anger in full force in the complete End of sin and evil.  Until that time, His wrath is reconciled by Christ so that we may respond to His love.  In the forgiveness in Christ is full reconciliation for all who will receive it.  At Judgment, those who reject Him, reject God's forgiveness and mercy, so they place themselves in the destruction of His holy anger. Well, this has been enjoyable semi-dialogue.  But -- break time.  May the One Who is Truth continue to enlighten us both more, and thanks be to Him that He does. As you can see here my Calvinist friends ..this is what has been taught for at least three generations. So goes institutional religious instruction so goes the family and country. This is the core problem. I will not have this God reign over me.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 2778  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: February 25, 2011, 01:35:40 PM In the spiritual dimension we see second causes as all things that create an incomplete view of reality. Second causes are usually road blocks. Second causes are moved along by the will of man. Every person who exercises his will to some point is a road block to understand who God is. When we think in the spiritual dimension there really is nothing that can be done to override human understanding or advancement through the wills of man. In the spiritual dimension we are offered two opposing world views. These world views are represented by possibility and impossibility. It is impossible to change second causes in themselves. It is only possible to change them as they reflect the will and glory of God. This is why our sovereign  God is in heaven and the earth is a place of death. Second causes are running a course of death. Every road block is the will of man that will not change. Every choice of man in itself is determined to prevent the will of God and must be thwarted .. over ridden or put to an end. The world is a place of Gods power expressed as the reason that anything is moving along. We view these things as we see  all of mans choices as being unable to bring the ends of things to the ultimate good. Each choice of man is determined by God to bring Himself glory. God is the only  able One to produce ultimate good.  In a sense we understand Gods law as if we were little worms. We are the earth born rebellious who play with dynamite because of a false sense of our own abilities. This is why the world is like one big second cause dream. God has given us His law but He tells us that He will not enable us to move these things along by our own understanding. This means that God changes the way things are done by His divine decrees. God purposed to create reality by His own ability in order to show that He is who He says He is. We receive this in the spiritual dimension. This is why we consider that the economy of the earth is mainly second causes that are viewed by man as producing life from the design to thwart Gods purposes. The more man tries to enable himself the more man brings about his own destruction. Because there is nothing that can be accomplished on this earth in all of the history of the choices of this earth if God did not determine before the creation to override every road block. The earth is a place of inability. God is the only one able to determine the purposes in all things to bring the end of time as we know it. Man puts up road blocks but cannot thwart Gods power. So we have an ability to see the light of the glory of God by destroying our old will and recreating our new will has forced us in the new birth in creating a new man.       Remove Reply Quote Notify 2779  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Radical Love on: February 24, 2011, 03:52:41 PM Quote from: Great2bHIS on February 23, 2011, 08:55:06 PM Quote So again, i ask that you consider that Jesus can work anonymously to rescue many people the churches aren't reaching with His love through others who have had similar problems, and can understand as no one else really can.    Really KK?? You just made a long post to try to "convince" me of something I never even said!  Please don't put words in my mouth! KK, if you will go back and actually READ my post's, I didn't say I didn't believe God could use the program to draw people to Himself!  Or use His people who have had similar problems to help others & be ministers of His reconciliation.  I actually said He COULD & often DOES-- just like He uses all things. I felt the love you have for the fellowship you have there, no doubt about it.  It's posted in quite a number of threads around here.  Reminds me of some people I know & how they feel about their 'church'. Quote The more you learn about AA, as an example, since it has more historical literature as the oldest of the "programs", the more you will see it's Christian roots.  And you would see the hand of God molding and shaping it to open the door for all people, even those who have serious resentments toward "churchianity" and claim to be atheists, or whatever. And if you attended lots of meetings, you would see the Scriptures unfold before your eyes.  You would feel the Spirit's tugging you when you hear or read things which can only point to Christ, even if His name isn't directly used.  For example, most recovering people know the "Footsteps" poem well.  You know instinctively Who it is about. What you will never convince me of is that God uses "obfuscation". Defined as: Obfuscation is the concealment of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, intentionally ambiguous, and more difficult to interpret. ....."Higher Power & god as we understand him" are just two examples of obfuscation as I see it, as well as the "vague" innuendo's to point to Christ. (including the 12 steps) YOU may know instinctively who they point to, but does that man or woman next to you? God has ONE meaning and ONE purpose--through His "One & ONLY" SON.  And HE and His Son have NAMES, not some half-assed blurred veiled term as "higher power & god as we understand him". The God I know says EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO HIS NAME! Which brings me to the point I was making, I guess I have to be boldly BLUNT! Was that YOU made a whole thread dedicated to the 10 Commandments and How Jesus wrote them with His own physical finger & that they are eternal and He carries them out in us as He writes them on our hearts & minds.  AND--That WE are to still OBEY them!  (I agreed that the Holy Spirit would never lead me to not obey those, but that we are free now, not under the law, but His Holy Spirit in us...etc...I gave lots of scripture references). Now you just posted all the problems since the 10 Commandments were taken from the walls of our schools. Quote Did anyone notice any change in crime rates and severity in school settings as the 10 Commandments were taken down from the walls? If so, was that a coincidence?  I think not.  When we as a society have abandoned the very essence of morality as written down by God Himself directly, then we have taught our kids that there is no reliable moral standard. And murder becomes justifiable, to some, if "they hurt my feelings".  Adultery becomes just what everyone else is doing.  Excessive love for cars or boats or computers or rock stars is no longer seen as idolatry.  Parents become a pain, not to be respected or obeyed.  And on it goes. Not saying that posting the Commandments on school walls would solve the problems we see.  But taking them down more than symbolized a turning of the national "back" on Him, and results in pulling away from His restraining influence on sins that seek to run rampant. Yes, we cannot keep the Commandments apart from Him, He must ultimately keep them in us.  But we can help focus minds on them if we so choose, letting Him do the conviction which is not our job, but His.  Lots of people need a "schoolmaster" to lead them to Christ, and the 10 clearly function that way by His Spirit. Or is it all "veiled" through "Higher Power" & "god as we understand him"...to appeal to the masses en mass.  Why?    On what power? Narrow is the path, or is it? If you back up all those words I bolded & underlined in your statement, then why aren't the 10 posted at the meetings?  Why isn't His NAME spoken?  Clearly stated as WHO the 12 Steps are founded in & on? If they don't really have HIM as in JESUS, as in reconciliation with the GREAT I AM, as in HIS Holy SPIRIT in them, what do they have? A little less pain here on earth for their remaining time before their destruction?  What does it count for?  What TRUTH does it bring?  What "good" as in REAL works of God does it bring unless it's THROUGH HIM and OF HIM.  Not some "higher power". I am asking BLUNTLY---why not proclaim His name?  Oh but you might miss a few that you could bring to Him right? 1st few 10 Commandments that you say we should OBEY & are eternal & He is working out in us in our hearts & minds is pretty clear He is to be RECOGNIZED as a SAVING GOD!  Are they not?? Real TRUTH is REAL TRUTH, and that's what sets man free!  Truth as in a PERSON.  Truth as in JESUS, with a name!  Called by name, proclaimed by Name, known by Name. Isn't not naming Jesus hiding your light under a bushel basket?  Sorry, childhood days song stuck in my memories, scripture says we don't put a lamp under the lamp stand! Rather we put it out for all to see! Isn't calling a program built on God's truth's yet taking HIS very name out of it and replacing it with any idol thing "higher power"--Taking the "World's" way?  Ahh, how can I reach the most people. appeal to the most people.  Reach them with what?  Appeal to them for what? If you aren't offering Jesus & His grace, forgiveness, LIFE eternally, what on earth are you offering?  A little healing from the addiction in this TEMPORARY LIFE?  Why? Which side of this coin do you stand on?  Or do you just constantly flip?  I'm getting the feeling the more I read you it's the latter!  I noticed you changed a few things over in the 10 Commandments thread from your original statements. Yeah, that was a good word MBG used "Obfuscation"!  Or my original thought when I first began talking with you which was that talking to you is about like trying to nail jell-o to the wall! My contention is that: 1st one-- God is a JEALOUS God, who has a NAME, who takes His people by their hand.  You say the whole 12 Step program is based on God.  I say then why not label it as THAT!? Obfuscation or TRUTH?  Which one do you think God Honors? Quote And then there are some old-timers, who have a way, often humorous, of putting concepts from the Word in interesting ways.  For example, i like to say that if we took videos of the people in a meeting just before they got sober/clean and then videos of the same people after a year of recovery, then we would have "before and after" looks at the results of recovery. And if we watched all the videos of the people in the meeting, then it would become very easy to believe in the Resurrection of the dead.  As a guy with lots of years in the fellowship, i can get away with things like that, without getting preachy, and maybe even getting some laughs.   Again?- aren't we told to be BOLD for HIM?  Just saying the very NAME of Jesus has power! I am not angry here, just being VERY blunt!  Point blank!  Yeah I shoot guns, live in the country! If we were talking in person, I'm sure this whole conversation would sound a lot different.  You can't see my warm smile or my eyes or my facial or hand expressions, just like I can't see yours.  I'd serve you up a nice meal & a hot cup of coffee in my homey kitchen over looking the woods.  Then I'd go at ya!   Which reminds me of another thing, I know everyone on this forum by their first names.  Makes it more personal.  Makes them real, and not just someone I'm chatting with through a box with a clever chosen screen name.  I've even talked to many of them on the phone.  Which is even better. Sigh!  I don't know.  Maybe I'm grouchy tonight.  I'm tired of the "polite" banter to just be polite.  I want to know where you really stand!  You say all these things about the 10 Commandments, then turn around and say something different when talking about the 12 Steps. I see that as talking out of both sides of your mouth as my dearly departed Dad used to say when he was calling me on the carpet over my excuses & cover-up stories. Clear enough?  Lets hope so!  If I wrote any clearer you'd think I was an awful name that begins with "B"!  Well, maybe you already are! Gosh i havent seen such clarity sense i have been here. Your becoming quite the apologist.  Penetrating questions and if Kk will listen then he might return to constitutional freedom. Reply Quote Notify 2780  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: February 24, 2011, 03:00:24 PM Ok.. i get personal here. Sharing a little of myself. I really havent experienced social anxiety but only a small period in my life. When i get into a social situation i actually draw life from others around me. My wife is the social butterfly. She has a million friends. I couldnt possible compete with her. She organizes events ... gets a lot of people to come and has organized the size of churchs in people. I on the other hand tend to enjoy the freedom and usually must be encouraged to tone it down because i get joking around too much. But i never had a problem with feeling uncomfortable in a social gathering. Only one time in my life.  But i have always memorized and consider myself a kind of experience nut. I have avoided people some times just because i am experiencing something profound and i did not want to lose the moment. I used to work with wood ... i miss it a lot... but in so much of this meditation and experience i admit i am a freak. People would read this and think this is the oddest guy around. But i seriously am writing from memory and i do not get uncomfortable in every bodies presence. So i dont think of the difference between my appearing to be religious and my tendency to cut up in public. I go on a site just to troll other people to practice my writing parody and its fun to me. By nature i am too nice but easily jovial. My wife is hesitant to let me go to all of the events because she is very proper and never wants to offend anyone. She cant get enough friends. Its crazy. But i hesitate to troll her friends so after the warning i promise to be good.  But we need to see that all of this deep experience makes us very practical in social settings. I mean for me being such a freak if we start talking about something that involves philosophy then i got to be careful because i watch people move away from me ... theres just something that i am not feeling ... but they read something.  We need to see that just because we are religious we still have things we do that need to be changed. So i want to talk to all those people who have been abused by the anger of God teaching. I will be up front. I am the type of person who has felt this overbearing power that i could not contain. When i used to work with the wood it would be a very detailed world of worship for me. I am feeling something in my work that is supernatural. So my talent or anything that had to do with my attention to time .. i just got lost in the moment. People would say.. thats nice work. I would respond in a way that i did not have a personal attachment to the style of my achievements. I seriously was so detached from the process that i was in it for the glory bumps. It really did not matter that i dressed like a total bum... or that it was accomplished. It was an experience to me.  So i believe that these freaky things we talk about here only add to the intensity of the moment of time. They order our lives. Our future is created without our ability to bring it all together. Its not really religiously mechanical. The events are experience. So we need to see that our sin is no longer the issue. I learned a while back that if i dwell on the wrong things that i do not get points with God. So no matter how bad i feel about my sin... its not going to impress God. This is because when i know i am going to sin... i point to Jesus.. and say He was stronger than me. Oh ... Satan will say but you need to really get serious and show some pain. Jesus is watching your response. Then i tell satan Jesus did it all... look at Him ... He doesnt get impressed by my sorrow. You see sin is no longer the issue. If we concern ourselves with who we are all the time then we will never enjoy all of the gifts that Christ has provided. When i get to joking around and i say something very earthy i just look and point to Christ who was able to say it rite. But Christ was never neurotic about it. He was not trying to put on a religious fickleness. See we can get really neurotic and get people to focus on us by talking about how bad our sin is. But Jesus not only died for our sins but He makes us comfortable in our communication with other people. We can forget about ourselves and just enjoy the moment. When we find we have been to happy then we just say look at Jesus.     Remove Reply Quote Notify 2781  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: February 24, 2011, 01:23:05 PM For all of those who feel God is pronouncing judgment on them. If you feel this way then you must understand that we have insight into what God does in this world. In other words we know anger indirectly. Our sin is attributing a child of God to that awful teaching. Remember that evil does not originate from a criminal mind. Evil was a ploy of Satan to tempt us to declare independence from God. Satan was telling us that we could get our value outside of another representative. He was making us self conscious in attributing evil in an upside down way. Now all men declare their independence from God and prove they are successful because they did it their way!! What does God say. Any man who imagines himself to be in rite standing by the mans own actions is declaring war against heaven and Gods Son! But the man does not even need to say i hate heaven. All the man needs to do is bring attention to himself by not having all of his acceptance from Someone else who is beyond him. This is what we call trading reality for something that in the end will damn man. This independence to proclaim a mans innocence by the word of another sinner on this earth is Gods curse. Now you know the secret. God is not angry with you because Someone else is acceptable to God. That someone is His Son. Now you can look at yourself and marvel that you are accepted because you dont measure up . You lost the anger because you see that Loving One.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 2782  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: February 24, 2011, 12:52:01 PM Anger is a form of protection. It is part of us that gives us emotional balance. There is no reason to take the anger out on someone else. Anger is fueled by blame. This is why people have an angry core. There is no paradox in this doctrinal approach. God is a covenant loving God whos honor is protected by His approach to anger. God cannot go against His own covenant word! God has chosen to love us as the cause of all that we are. Anyone who preaches another gospel let him be accursed. Our anger is out of the desire to please God. Not only are we made know in our willing but our chief desire is the core of our new image. This desire is a gift of God. This desire is Gods love gift to us. The desire of love is our understanding of God as Father. Now listen... when we approach God we approach Him as a loving Father. The anger comes from our tendency to focus on this earth and be man centered. The bible says that men have an angry core because in Adam every man declares his independence from God. Men use the effects of the law that dominates their core desires. The effects are guilt by manipulation...blame by association... anger out of a resistance to the dominate force of the world demanding evidence of our lack of trust in God... ie the seeds of contentiousness. The bible defines God as a Father who covenants with His children because He is a loving God. The love is displayed not only to us but to the world that God is faithful, kind, full of compassion, and ready to forgive. This is called Gods spoken blessing to His covenant people.This means that Gods covenant people lay down their resistance to God by blessing their fellow members. To resist God out of blame of any sort is to think as a wicked man. The reason is because when God blesses us He gives us His unconditional love by telling us that He is a loving God who is compassionate ,,kind.. full of love, always faithful and patient. There is no ... listen to me.. no mention of anger!!!!!Anger from God stopped at His desire to forgive us and remove our paradigm of blame!! Who shall bring any charge against Gods elect? Who is he that condemns? Who is he that teaches God is angry with His children? May it never be... which is a Wow. ie a cursing!! The isrealites were given an inheritance. This was a gift that God would provide for their daily needs and their future. In this inheritance they were promised that they would get what they desired because God would hear their prayer for deliverance and save them. Now this was that God hated Esau and He loved Jacob. What did Esau do with the gift? He sold his birth rite. What we see here was the Jacob was to blame as part of this deal. What did God say? Jacob i loved!!!!! Esau I hated? This is covenant pronouncement not a response to their good efforts!! God was saying that anyone who treats His covenant in a pronouncement that is not as God promised about curses and blessing .. then let the pox fall on their own houses. Who shall bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?  There is room for self deception ... we bear it patiently.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 2783  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: February 24, 2011, 12:20:11 PM Still churning on ... Remove Reply Quote Notify 2784  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and memory on: February 24, 2011, 11:15:10 AM Memory is a human meta physical image control. Because memory is controlled by the events of this world and the language that speaks to us in our imaginations. Memory is the brush that paints the picture of that image. So we can say that memory is not just an image of the past but it is the language of the present that enforces our past. We need to see that when we are talking about memory we are talking about the picture we create of the truth both past and present. This is why memory is a timeless experience. Because memory is like an incomplete experience of the total reality because it is mixed with the imagination as the mechanism to paint the picture of the image. This is why memory is more of a sense orientation than a defined image itself. Because memory is the five senses in the experience. So we cannot define the memory as the truth of the image. I think memory is affected most as a mechanism of the deepest present experience. This is why we refine memory by the deep experiences. Because the power of memory is the present effects it has on the sense experience. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2785  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Doubt on: February 24, 2011, 09:45:32 AM It seems to me that the experience of doubt is two dimensional. There is an intellectual doubt ... i call this a battle from personal strength. There is a spiritual doubt .. a battle from personal weakness. Let me talk about the doubt from weakness. A person is given to doubt out of a sense of prolonged anxiety.. fear... worry or physical trauma. The related circumstances that fuel doubt are both the physical world and lack of spiritual understanding. God says that He puts people in the place in this world both geographically and position in the world in order that they serve Him .. for in Him we move and have our being. So that our present circumstances were ordained by God and not by the system of checks and balances or other wise people. This means that when we are thinking of how the physical universe affects doubt then we are in a battle between the voices of others reason and our ability to think for ourselves. At the same time we bring other people into our lives who create a positive force for our doubt by our view of the physical causes and their apparent importance.  This is why the bible is not a book of equal powers. The bible does not create paradox. Paradox is a doctrine of confusion. It is a spiral stair case to further self defeating purpose. The bible helps us to find all of our security in One place... One man... One purpose. Then we can reason in second causes. Paradox is an effort to put the cart before the horse. When you say that my philosophy brings me truth and my doctrinal positions include my past experience as the training that has brought me to this point then you are enforcing paradox or an equal truth grid to your circumstances. You are saying there are past circumstances that were voices of reason that enforced you security of having your being in God.  We must see that God is everything we need. This means that God determines the succession of events as if they were ordered for the first time. So that in the spiritual dimension the event was ordained by God so that the past has no baring on it nor the future. But the event was the creation out of nothing for the single purpose of glorifying God. If the world was defined by past events then we would be burdened beyond our ability to live in the present. God decomposes in spiritual reality.   Reply Quote Notify 2786  Forums / Theology Forum / Counseling and memory on: February 24, 2011, 08:53:48 AM In this thread i am going to talk about the "force memory" as a repetitive tool used to create a psychological profile. Memory is a past experience that transpires in the physical world. Memory is not the actual event. Its a view of the actual event. We are in a sense a collection of our memories that forms our present experience. But memory is like our conscience. It is a creation of God in our past reality. So we can say that memory apart from recreation is part of the present circumstances in which the people and events in our past replay the past event. Because there is very little change in this world in real terms. But in our minds and understanding our memory creates our own world. This is going to be an interesting thread to say the least. Understanding memory is a way to become an enigma in this evil world.   Reply Quote Notify 2787  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: February 24, 2011, 08:29:55 AM In this dimension we are looking at all things in the order that God created them. But the appearance as we see them is the order in our minds. This is what is so intellectually challenging. In the succession of events we are always a part of those events as they are in our own minds. We are not only what we think we are but the events that we encounter are what we think they are. This is why we believe that creation governs our understanding of second causes. We must see that God has made this world to be governed through Him, to Him, in Him and by Him. In other words there is an intellectual process that is the action behind determining things to not be the same as if they were created for a single purpose even tho it appears to us in this physical realm that the working seems repetitive. Not everyone is given the mental capabilities to work this out.  This is what grates on me. I tell people that i have thought about these things for 30 yrs ... meditated on these passages a million times and they still think they have a better understanding than i have. Through present meditation i get these "He told me to tell you this." Its is always something you think is unimportant ...not a burden. The old adage is that if you repeat something long enough it becomes reality. That is way the world is a place where the spiritual dimension is active in which people experience things as they are in their understanding by this art of composing and decomposing. In spiritual dimension there is no reasonable return on actions. It is a way of life. It is a self image. It is how we view things that will determine the level of our affections in community. We produce reality by our understanding of God and ourselves. We need to understand that all reality is learned from a forced paradigm. They used to call this brain washing. This is why life is a succession of realities in the communication of words. These words create ideas. These ideas create the understanding of who we are. Who we are creates our future. In the third dimension we live to glorify God as an art form. Because God has come to us in word and Spirit. If God is absolutely sovereign then He does not need to prove that He exist. All reality is an image of who He is. We understand our own image as He is. Remove Reply Quote Notify 2788  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Three Dimensional Reality on: February 22, 2011, 03:16:26 PM I dont think the universe as it actually appears is the same as what we think it is. This is why men create their own god because they think the universe was self created. The Psalmist goes farther and says that men think their own decision are self authenticating. In other words in the spiritual dimension godless men are an imagination of what they are apart from God. This is what the Psalmist describes as an errant thought. This is also the way the Psalmist distinguishes those who fear God and those who are godless. The sin is not in the apparent opposition to good but its in the declaration of independence from God. In the third dimension these men no matter how noble in their position in the world are in opposition to God. This means that God defines evil and sin as the judgment that men received from Adam. All men who are in Adam are under the curse of sin. The appearance of goodness in this world is upside down in the third dimension. The battle between the kingdom of darkness is already moving in the direction of finding a just end because God is in the process of renewal because of Christ work. God has determined to bless Abraham's descendants while cursing the rest of mankind. His law on our behalf is working to bring in the new heaven and earth.     Remove Reply Quote Notify 2789  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: February 22, 2011, 02:56:59 PM We believe that our will died. As it says in the Romans passage our old will was caught in between the law and our own guilt and it created a desire to choose more evil. The problems also dealt with our consciences. When we had the old will our consciences were a law unto themselves .So we excused our sin and we accused other men. This whole cabang that i have been describing is what we call the process of spiritual death. But when we were born again God put a new will... totally new... the old will was killed along with the sin and the old relationship we had to the law. Now we have Gods will. This does not mean that we chose in a God accepted way. Because we still possess a corrupted mind... desires... and emotion. But now we have a war going on inside of us. Are we going to trust that God is sovereign and in control or are we going to take our lives back? Well thank God that He alone.. by His power and by Him causing us to walk in His way through a new and living way.  We no longer are in between the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light. Now we are able to be transformed simply by the renewing of our minds through word and Spirit. The apostle said the the Galatians... after beginning with the Spirit are you now trying to be perfected through the law and conscience with self will? Hebrews says... are you trying to go back to the original repentance?  He says that believers must go on to maturity through the meat of the word of God. Because now we desire the sincere milk of the word with our new will. This salvation is a total gift... even the faith to believe. It was pre ordained that we would be saved.We are redeemed by the work of Christ alone. He bought us ... sought us ... saved us and keeps us. We rejoice in this sovereign grace. Reply Quote Notify 2790  Forums / Main Forum / Re: 12 central lies of addiction to sin on: February 22, 2011, 02:25:16 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on February 22, 2011, 12:53:28 PM It is not easy for addicts to face the truth about themselves, and their desperate need for God and other people. Thus 12 step meetings are set up for a great amount of redundancy and repetition.   And with each repetition of truths, the opportunity grows for new realizations, miniature "spiritual awakenings" about our lives and His Life. So i offer a repetition of the central lies we have to accept in order to become addicted and stay addicted.  If we let Him, the Spirit will give a little "nudge" at the ones we have been most clinging to in order to maintain the addiction.  And recognition is the starting point of recovery.  Read over the list of lies again and see if any apply to you. "We admitted" are the first two words of the steps back to God.  Can you? Kk... no one is saying there is no redeeming value in freeing someone from the alcoholism. We just do not push one program over another on this forum.  As i have said in my opinion this falls under counsel and that means people should get more than one source. Or they should consider that the big change in the heart is only accomplished by word and Spirit. Just putting this in perspective.