Saturday, November 7, 2015

2881  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Rest and rejoicing in the Lord on: January 08, 2011, 05:43:05 AM
Did you know we are the most negative people in this world? Do i write things without passion? I do not. Because i practice the ultimate reality of negative thinking. Listen people... Jesus did not say that the evil in this world is simply created in men. No Jesus extended evil to every connection ...even the thoughts of man as ordered to murder... rape... lust... and self serving. Did you know that this earth is full of cursed thoughts and connections that we do not even see or understand. Because if we had our eyes opened to what God sees we would be sifted like wheat in a Milli second. Murders happen long before they are in the physical world.
Because the world is connected in a way that is opposed to God and his ways. This is why the world is not just a physical description as it is used in the bible but its a course! Because men use their words as if they were plotting to destroy everything in their world. This world if filled with desperate men who do nothing but react on an emotional level. This is why the world is cursed! Every mans thoughts are evil continually. That means that men pillage a city before they enter it to destroy it. They do it in the phone calls in the private rooms.. and in the secret places. Men destroy by force.
This world is filled with devils! There are threats on every side. There are men scheming against their neighbors who are as nice as they could be face to face but they have the most detestable thoughts of hatred in their private times! You see if we do not curse this world...then every day we are susceptible to being under some kind of attack! Take off the rose colored glasses.
Do you feel threatened by meta physical things? Do you understand the private evil in this world?Do you know that men are scheming all the time? Do you know that God wants all of our problems all of the threats to be rolled over to Him.
Our hearts are so evil we will react in ways that God has never taught us to react toward the hardness of this world. Why? Because we deceive ourselves about the level of evil in this world. We naturally are drawn to the counsel of men and we see no bad intentions as long as its positive and a good moral lesson. We do not have a true spiritual sense of judging these things any more. The bible says to test the spirits! Not just to listen with the ear!
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2882  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: CHAPTER 19. - OF CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. J CALVIN on: January 08, 2011, 05:11:53 AM

mbG quoting calvin:  "For he who imagines that in order to obtain justification he must bring any degree of works whatever, cannot fix any mode or limit, but makes himself debtor to the whole law. Therefore, laying aside all mention of the law, and all idea of works, we must in the matter of justification have recourse to the mercy of God only; turning away our regard from ourselves, we must look only to Christ."

K_k:  Is it considered a work to see our need for a Savior and cry out for Him to save us?  We are thereby looking away from our selves and looking only to Christ for salvation.  And we are thereby choosing, with our freed/free will, to rely on Him rather than ourselves.

mbG quoting calvin:  "For when the conscience feels anxious as to how it may have the favor of God, as to the answer it could give, and the confidence it would feel, if brought to his judgment-seat, in such a case the requirements of the law are not to be brought forward, but Christ, who surpasses all the perfection of the law, is alone to be held forth for righteousness."

K_k:  Yes, and thus we freely choose to depend on His righteousness, rather than our own unrighteousness.  It is an act of our inspired will, not of God's coercion.

mbG quoting calvin:  "At the same time, he shows that by the cross of Christ they are free from the condemnation of the law, to which otherwise all men are exposed, so that in Christ alone they can rest in full security."

K_k:  Yes, we are free from the condemnation of the Law, while also being set free in Christ to keep the heart of the Law, for He Himself writes the Laws of love on our hearts and guides us from within.  He, the Law-Giver, becomes the Law-Fulfiller through us, so that the eternal moral Law of God is satisfied by Him, as we follow His instructions in His power and direction.

The moral Law is never ended or done away with, but is instead made permanent through His unending Life and righteousness, in us.  And the long-ago promised "Thou shalt / Thou shalt nots" become "We do / We do nots", in Him.

 This is exactly the opposite of what Calvin teaches.... and the apostle Paul i might add. Kk is teaching pure Plagenism. He looks at Christ work on our behalf as making us intrinsically righteous. Kk never talks about total depravity because kk believes that our faith is not under the condemnation of sin. Kk does not believe that we are void of spiritual senses in our unsaved state. But Kk says that our will is able to meet God in salvation.
The bible teaches us that there is no one who seeks after God. Kk thinks that men can respond to God in this emotional conviction in which God brings a man to respond with mans free will. Kk believes in communications on a horizontal level in relationship with man to man... or some emotional fits from God bringing pain to man that makes a man find the real saving knowledge of God.

 We believe as the bible teaches that there is no hope for man unless God comes to man. The whole world is in blindness and is unable to think thoughts about God that motivates them to find all their happiness in God. The world does avoids God because they will not have God in all their thoughts. God demands that man subject himself to Gods spoken word. God has given man His word as the only counsel that is real reality. But men have gone astray in their thinking . Because men refuse to submit to Gods word .. they hate His will. Why do men naturally go their own way? Because they love themselves to much to allow God room enter their life. Men are not only foolish in their imaginations but they are born fools before they are able to chose for themselves.

This is why God curses men. Because God must subject men to the working of His law. If God were to allow men to be respected as they create their own schemes then He would allow men to rebel against His ways. God must not only subject men to sorrow upon sorrow but God must allow the curses of the law to fall on men. Because each man has thoughts that create a trap for his neighbor. It is not the rules and the laws the keep men as good moral examples. But each man is born as morally corrupted because even the mans good intentions are for his own benefit. Men are morally corrupted because they make laws that are good so they can control their neighbors. Even "good men" of this world are the biggest schemers. Rebellion is like the sin of witch craft. Or it is using snap shots of reality in making chance as a moral demand for the purpose of more control. There is no hope in this world unless God shows men the light of His revelation.     
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2883  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Chesterton - Heretic on: January 08, 2011, 03:49:29 AM
Bill let me answer your question some time today. I have had a cold and have been resting a bit. But i will be praying for you. I know it is best to understand that we live in a foreign land... at least i experience a level of loneliness because of having these two different realities in which i am trying to have a level of comfort and rest about. The main point is that we need to have our communication and view of the circumstances of this world on the rite things. I have been cursed with being able to explain these things that we go through as the bible teaches ... i am not a very good solution man... but i will tackle this in a bit.

I can write now...as God has determined.
What i mean about offering solutions is that i believe reality is denied when a person refuses to let the word of God define the purpose of our experience on a daily basis. There are two different worlds that we live in. The only real world .. or as they .. that is the other voices in this world teach...is the eternal world in which we enter on a daily basis through the word of Christ. Denial is refusing to think as God thinks.

This is why the world system is going on a course and has been moving in a steady pace since the beginning of time. I do not think ultimate things are circular. I do not believe that our past ultimately has anything to do with the present course of our lives. I believe we deny scripture when we look at our lives in a snap shot ..our present experience describing our limits and excuses by our past. The world of reality is not dependent upon the circumstances we have experienced but we are to live in a new identity that is being formed in us from our new birth. This new identity is not dependent upon our old identity. Our denial is to attribute something about us in our past or our old identity as equal with our new identity. The christian man is not tied down to the principles of men in this world but we think what we are. In some ways we can gain such a high heavenly perspective that we experience everything as one divine flow of Life. The things in the future are created by the cause outside of ourselves. We enter into circumstances that are necessary for us and in complete harmony with a divine purpose. Our past was created in us for our good. The reality that follows us as believers into the future is too good for us to imagine.

But men think they have a divine rite to determine what we need to incorporate into our personality. This is a complete denial of real supernatural causes that teach us real grace in the present. This is the ultimate denial of true determinism and leads men into thinking things as if evil and good... God and evil were dependent upon our changing. Men who live under the illusion that God is the subject of our past... our will... and our present addictions and foibles are rebellious to letting Gods word rule over their thoughts. They refuse to acknowledge God in all they do.

God does whatever pleases Him in heaven and on earth and He will reward each of His children for what they have done. This is not something we take as a warning and a promise but this reward is a promise to those who have this new identity in Christ whos word determines our obedience! For Gods word is a word of salvation... it is a word of real redemption. We look to God to speak the word of deliverance. We turn away from the counsel of this world. For scoffers do not let Gods word judge move them as the cause of their actions but they refuse to allow God in all their thoughts... that is the thought that is most pleased with the divine initiative.

Bill .. this is what we need to see about creationism. Not just that God created these things but that God sustains all things by the word of His power. So we need to take this creationism and define it in actions that are meta physical for the purpose of not only allowing God to be God but seeing Gods will as the cause of all of reality!!!

I will write some things in others sections about this idea of the christian Buddhism method of this idea of evil being dis attached to self by experience. Of finding a state of nothingness in relation to self and this world. We have a real ability to curse in the most negative way so that we enter a real sense of mourning over the true nature of things in this world in a finite way. There is a certain gracious detachment that Buddhist will never experience. The christian man is most able to live in the meta physical universe as the ultimate form of the eternal conscious connection to these things that are to come. We have a fore taste of heaven.    
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2884  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: CHAPTER 19. - OF CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. J CALVIN on: January 06, 2011, 02:57:40 PM
3. On this almost the whole subject of the Epistle to the Galatians hinges; for it can be proved from express passages that those are absurd interpreters who teach that Paul there contends only for freedom from ceremonies. Of such passages are the following:

 “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us.” “Stand fast, therefore, in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace,” (Gal. 3:13; 5:1-4). These words certainly refer to something of a higher order than freedom from ceremonies. I confess, indeed, that Paul there treats of ceremonies, because he was contending with false apostles, who were plotting, to bring back into the Christian Church those ancient shadows of the law which were abolished by the advent of Christ. But, in discussing this question, it was necessary to introduce higher matters, on which the whole controversy turns. First, because the brightness of the Gospel was obscured by those Jewish shadows, he shows that in Christ we have a full manifestation of all those things which were typified by Mosaic ceremonies. Secondly, as those impostors instilled into the people the most pernicious opinion, that this obedience was sufficient to merit the grace of God, he insists very strongly that believers shall not imagine that they can obtain justification before God by any works, far less by those paltry observances.

At the same time, he shows that by the cross of Christ they are free from the condemnation of the law, to which otherwise all men are exposed, so that in Christ alone they can rest in full security. This argument is pertinent to the present subject (Gal. 4:5, 21, &c).

 Lastly, he asserts the right of believers to liberty of conscience, a liberty which may not be restrained without necessity.
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2885  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Chesterton - Heretic on: January 06, 2011, 12:56:59 PM
Bill, I too love the writings of Chesterton. Yes, the inversion of word meanings which he so accurately (and artfully) describes in his essays has never been more pronounced than now. We see this reversal-of-meaning even more poignantly in the main-stream of everyday life. For about the past forty-five years, "bad" has come to mean "good" while "good" often has the connotations of meaning "ineffectual." (Particularly when ascribed to a person). I once was talking with someone about my brother and his guitar playing; he described my brother as a "sick" guitar player - meaning that he was actually one of the best guitar players he had ever heard!

Indeed, the most intractable position - I should say "canon" - of post-modern society is that it is in very bad taste to have an absolute view about anything. (Except on the view that there are absolutely no absolutes!). Words like "Orthodox" only succeed in not being synonymous with words like "intolerant" or "narrow" when they are describing something not having to do with philosophy or one's view of the universe. (As in: "his methods for conducting an investigation are unorthodox"). You will even find unabashed declarations of this philosophy in pop culture and film. In the very last Star Wars installment, Obi Wan Kenobi says to the young, recently-turned-sith-lord, Anakim Skywalker, "only a sith lord speaks in terms of absolutes!"

Chesterton could, of course, see were all of this was heading, and if he were around today, although he would be appalled, he would hardly be surprised.

I am very happy you made this topic a thread, Bill. I certainly look forward to discussing this at-length with you and others.

I agree TB.. ive spent a lot of time in the arts the last 7 yrs. Although i agree that we should teach kids from the view of creationism i also see a value in it showing the reality as a mirror to our present day experience. I enjoy the parody of evil as well. And as believers we should be able to go into the mind of the writer as we are viewing the art work and answer all the questions of truth in a redemptive sense.
But the arts are an important part of developmental stages of a young person. I have a son who loves the stage. But more importantly it teaches communication skills and i think it gives people a sense of accomplishment and good self worth as the creators of their own artistic forms. I believe that kids need to be challenged and molded by a focus on their individual gifts and the arts are a kind of education of self discovery. Ive probably seen over 70 plays. Our homeschoolers perform a play every yr. So we are introducing them into the arts as well as teaching them a christian world view. In my opinion art work is a reflection of the culture.      
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2886  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Chesterton - Heretic on: January 06, 2011, 12:12:02 PM
Bill if i am not mistaken here Chesterton is focusing on the idea that men who reject Creationism also do not have a standard of orthodoxy. Whether this is a result of a concerted effort to ignore the facts about creation in the teaching to young children or a miss understanding in the religious community about the real reality of origins ..it is proof that the world born out of the desire to suppress the truth, developing their own schemes against the historical patriarchal facts that have been passed down from one generation to another as the distinguishing mark of the wise. Men have suppressed this truth and become fools.

As you know i am a proponent of homeschooling because i believe that real opposition starts with the education of these young minds.Although i do not believe that educating kids in creationism will create a God honoring society... i believe we would not be as depraved as we could be without that education. If we do not honor God in the words we use to teach these kids then we will offer them other alternatives to worship at the altar of other gods. America is now an example of the rejecting creationism and putting an ideal in its place. We have strayed so far that there is no longer a respect for the innocence of life.    
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2887  Forums / Theology Forum / CHAPTER 19. - OF CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. J CALVIN on: January 06, 2011, 11:40:30 AM
1. We are now to treat of Christian Liberty, the explanation of which certainly ought not to be omitted by any one proposing to give 2131a compendious summary of Gospel doctrine. For it is a matter of primary necessity, one without the knowledge of which the conscience can scarcely attempt any thing without hesitation, in many must demur and fluctuate, and in all proceed with fickleness and trepidation. In particular, it forms a proper appendix to Justification, and is of no little service in understanding its force. Nay, those who seriously fear God will hence perceive the incomparable advantages of a doctrine which wicked scoffers are constantly assailing with their jibes; the intoxication of mind under which they labour leaving their petulance without restraint. This, therefore, seems the proper place for considering the subject. Moreover, though it has already been occasionally adverted to, there was an advantage in deferring the fuller consideration of it till now, for the moment any mention is made of Christian liberty lust begins to boil, or insane commotions arise, if a speedy restraint is not laid on those licentious spirits by whom the best things are perverted into the worst. For they either, under pretext of this liberty, shake off all obedience to God, and break out into unbridled licentiousness, or they feel indignant, thinking that all choice, order, and restraint, are abolished. What can we do when thus encompassed with straits?

Are we to bid adieu to Christian liberty, in order that we may cut off all opportunity for such perilous consequences?

But, as we have said, if the subject be not understood, neither Christ, nor the truth of the Gospel, nor the inward peace of the soul, is properly known. Our endeavor must rather be, while not suppressing this very necessary part of doctrine, to obviate the absurd objections to which it usually gives rise.

2. Christian liberty seems to me to consist of three parts. First, the consciences of believers, while seeking the assurance of their justification before God, must rise above the law, and think no more of obtaining justification by it.

 For while the law, as has already been demonstrated (supra, chap. 17, sec. 1), leaves not one man righteous, we are either excluded from all hope of justification, or we must be loosed from the law, and so loosed as that no account at all shall be taken of works.

For he who imagines that in order to obtain justification he must bring any degree of works whatever, cannot fix any mode or limit, but makes himself debtor to the whole law. Therefore, laying aside all mention of the law, and all idea of works, we must in the matter of justification have recourse to the mercy of God only; turning away our regard from ourselves, we must look only to Christ.

 For the question is, not how we may be righteous, but how, though unworthy and unrighteous, we may be regarded as righteous.

If consciences would obtain any assurance of this, they must give no place to the law. Still it cannot be rightly inferred from this that believers have no need of the law. It ceases not to teach, exhort, and urge them to good, although it is not recognized by their consciences before the judgment-seat of God. The two things are very different, and should be well and carefully distinguished. The whole lives of Christians ought to be a kind of aspiration after piety, seeing they 2132are called unto holiness (Eph. 1:4; 1 Thess. 4:5). The office of the law is to excite them to the study of purity and holiness, by reminding them of their duty.

 For when the conscience feels anxious as to how it may have the favor of God, as to the answer it could give, and the confidence it would feel, if brought to his judgment-seat, in such a case the requirements of the law are not to be brought forward, but Christ, who surpasses all the perfection of the law, is alone to be held forth for righteousness.
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2888  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Rest and rejoicing in the Lord on: January 04, 2011, 03:50:06 PM
If we do not want to resist in some ways we have retreated. The confusion is how we resist. How are we active and yet we rest. I think our encouragement is what gives us activity. I know that people want to do something in order to feel good. But that is part of our corruption in my understanding. We should always have this special vision of the only one being loved by a real kind of love that has no withdrawal of help and healing. In my understanding this is the natural longing of every individual and the spiritual senses along with the natural longing to live a physical life are connected. But we find a tremendous evil in certain weaknesses that dominate our vision.

 This is why we must be aware of our general disposition. If we are sensitive and easily emotional then we must not be drawn into this all or nothing christian obedience. Some of us need encouragement more than harsh words as the way to find God. I know that this toughness is built in us by a slow adversity that we learn but we are still not like the ones who enjoy the adversity and have no big evil monsters in their minds. God always comes as a Father even if we fall into a pattern of sin.

This is not easy because it is like we are running a marathon. We do not have too many quiet examples of people who are meek in this day. So we are always a little bit extreme in our emotional responses. I am very sensitive and emotional. So i understand this as something that has a special private side to it. There is a big sensitive area in emotional people about separating private things with public things. The emotions are bent toward embarrassment even if the issue is not that big in the worlds eyes. So that we develop a big world inside of our minds because the circumstances of this life are so mixed up.

 I think encouraging someone incorporate a normal way to react out of a healthy emotional sense is putting someone in a box. God works on individuals through and indirect activity of word and Spirit. The opposition to this new incorporated method brings in an abyss of sorrow out of the inability to live up to what is normal. The bible takes us where we are and through word and Spirit lets us fall and get back up. The bible does not examine in a way that describes normalcy but it under girds the pattern of sin so that it becomes less powerful. This is why our personal reactions are also taught in this pattern of word in spirit. We can go through incorporation and find healthy reactions but these are short term. And it also creates in us these false standards of community connection. But if we react in real terms to situations through word and Spirit then we are more natural in rolling over the poison.   
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2889  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Rest and rejoicing in the Lord on: January 04, 2011, 02:58:54 PM
As you know the days are evil. If the living are out to destroy kill and steal then sometimes the dead are a better alternative. Its like the way your dog treats you.. he always likes you even if you dont pay too much attention to him. We are creatures of habit. I think evil... Satan.. evil men know this. So we are always being molded by blunt force. This is why our own strength will deceive us in the end. Because we cannot attempt to change a whole system of force with our abilities. We will fail in the end. The devil is very subtle in his ways.

 We must begin to see that God is on His throne. God is in the still small voice. He just looks on us and we have removed the obstinacy even long term problems. Why does God make things too simple? Because there is a great gulf between our understanding of Gods power and our trusting in our own horses. God must simply things or He would be explaining Himself to us in a way that is weak and ineffective. Who is going to be encouraged to continue to trust in a God whose hand is forced by the means? Our encouragement is in a real word of salvation. So we are people who find courage in a world that is turned upside down.

 This is why we can long into renewal. Be renewed in the spirit of our minds. We are protected by the helmet of salvation because we have these powers in the high places that bring death threats to our most vital and sensitive areas. The christian man is the most vulnerable man on earth because his instincts are not to depend upon rumors... false words... mens schemes.. and the worlds definition of identity. Instead the christian has the secret life of God in the soul of man. The christian has powers that are beyond this earth and are brought to bear in a very simple way. But these things require a trust and rest in God because we do not judge things by physical sight or strength but by the Spirit.

 This is why we have rest in God. Because we are able to distance ourselves by the force and threats of Satans minions. We are able to cast the burdens on God. At the same time we are encouraged to come to God in prayer to receive grace in a time of need. This grace is what separates us from the powers of the evil world. Because this grace undermines all of Satans devices. God is a God who saves. Why does God save us? Because He promises to come to our rescue. Why does God promise to come to our rescue? Because He is kind and loving full of compassion and gracious! In other words we have someone who is not just a Savior but He is our Father! This evil society that has waxed cold is bent on anti Father anti supernatural-ism. But we have this communication of wishes and determinations that are like cold water poured over us on a very hot day. You see that Satan tries to make us feel and think that sin and acceptance are the hallmarks of entering into community. But we know there is a much better acceptance in finding all of our joy and confidence in a Father who is the creator of all reality.

This is why we come out from among them and separate unto God. Because we must not only be convinced that God is good but we must see that God is all glorious. We must see God as lifted up. I stop.   
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2890  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Question on: January 04, 2011, 01:53:33 PM

mbG:  "I have been convinced that even in our churches people can get plugged in and not even be real Christians. Does this bother me? Not at all... "

K_k:  Do you mean that the way it sounds?

Let me go in this direction although i may give you the reformed view of the end times and the separation of the wheat with the chaff. But I believe that the christian faith is described as a continuous holding onto Jesus. I think we do each other a disservice when we make these things in automation. This is why the standard of our need is our always wondering. The moment we have a wrong thought then we are at odds with Gods ways. It isnt about the outward action ... really... society functions when people are all connected to the head as demanded to love the Lord our God... its the lack as well as the demand. So i see leadership as being renewed unto connection in real terms.

This is why a spiritual man is not just a learned man in an art form. But its a man who knows God in an intimate way. In my understanding of this all the horizontal connection is dependent on this one thing. Men do not lead as if they are receiving stripes or having a standard that tires them out. Men lead out of this experience of being confounded by the bigness and sovereignty of God. A man is who he is by his own ability to obtain this renewal in this filial connection to God that leads him into a sense of utter confusion as to how He is going to bring the remedy. The standard is to know God and know oneself. We live as one man in the reality that we are connected to God. There is no time and space in christian community.
This is why memorization and meditation is a mark of spiritual awareness. The ot saints worked with a tool in one hand and a bible in another. Check out the building of the wall. That means that there is this physical exertion and a spiritual battle going on at the same time.Thought makes reality in connection to spiritual purpose. Connection to Christ is word focused. This is beyond circumstances. You cannot have unity unless you agree in the doctrines of grace as the word of deliverance.

We cannot make an absolute judgment on who calls himself a believer. But we must trust people. Because some people who do not look like believers are true and some people who practice being good and obedient are reprobate. The only time this will be exposed is when Christ brings the world before the great tribunal.    
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2891  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: What do you think about this passage? on: January 04, 2011, 12:58:30 PM
Gods kingdom is both visible and invisible. So there are things that exist that do not reflect the light of the sun. Seeing that things exist not in true color but the light gives them that color. So in reality things exist only as the light exist. This is why there are things that exist that have no visibility to our human eye. Because they do not gain an attribute by the light. Gods view of things as they really are is the interaction with the invisible universe with the visible as we see it.
But we do not have the knowledge to understand this interaction of the invisible. It is like us judging things based upon a thought that it exist. Everyone has things in their minds about the truth that are not real. We have activity in our minds all the time. This activity is working out our view of what we think is applicable in a given situation.

We live in a word oriented universe where the real things are understood to us by the extent of the language that is available to us as finite created beings.The word becomes reality or the word becomes the image of a man. That man exist in our minds that reflects all the things we judge about the physical universe. Jesus became flesh. The word... that which was the word of deliverance. That word that meets the needs of all of reality in future flesh became flesh. Jesus has always been the beginning and ending of every thing that is. He was present in the creation and He was present before He was revealed. Jesus is God but the Word was always present in Spirit.This is the hope of the future deliver. That invisible manifestation of the Deliver that saves Israel. The saints fellowship ed with Christ in the OT. They apprehended the Author of salvation by faith as we do looking back.

This is why they were able to deliver people from demons and heal the sick. Because we have the word of deliverance. Healing is part of Gods ordained means of recovery. But the healing that God does is through the word ... or its the word in which all other words are subject to. This is why the apostle prayed that the eyes of our understanding would be enlightened. We would know the hope.. power.. of salvation that is given to us. In other words Gods will is reality. Or we think and act according to Gods will and we will experience the true desire in our purpose. This is why He says if we pray according to His will then we will get what we ask. We desire to be like Him and we are.

All of our future and that which we know is true or will come true is based upon our understanding of the will of God. In a sense we create the reality as it coming through us in one direction. God flows through us. Not only are the means coming out from us but they are coming back towards us for our benefit. Now think about this deeply.  
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2892  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: January 04, 2011, 11:56:45 AM
If you look in the ot you will find that horses are mostly going out to war. The number of horses is the kind of power that a nation exerts. But this is also a battle that is between the heavens and the high places on earth. Its the kingdom of God against the rulers of the earth. Again we find this succession of powers described. The throne then the beast then the 24 elders then the angels than the saints and then the evil rulers of the earth. This is how God defines the nature of this battle. Because every being under God is not to be trusted in the ultimate sense.

We have overlapping battles as it is described in heaven through out the history of this world. In every conflict we have this descending chariot along with the multitude of Gods heavenly forces. David calls on God to descend from His throne in victory as the motif for understanding salvation. This is why the Lamb of God is depicted as gaining victory in the spoils of the battle and in this Ruler is the retribution of the blood of evil rulers. Too often the church of God has been viewed in a kind of romantic way and there is not defense for the weak.
This is why we have this hidden part that is war like. Its away from earth .. its behind a door.. God is holy or separated from His created order. He has no equal foes... holiness being God as the only Judge.. adjudicator and He repays as the one who is the only ruler of the earth.

This is why the prayers of the saints are eternally prosperous. Because in the word that will become sight and sin will be no more. These things will be completely changed . But the prayers of the saints remain. Why? Because in prayer we live in the heaven lies.. or we act and talk in a different realm. The war is in prayer ... the hatred.. the blood thirsty fight is in prayer. The love expressed to man is in community. The worship of Gods people is an expression of war. Because worship is what we will do in heaven in completed victory or the wicked eternally punished and the righteous are rewarded. This is heaven coming down to earth. This is real reality.  
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2893  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Question on: January 04, 2011, 11:19:04 AM
We have created this societal rehabilitation factory. I have been convinced that even in our churches people can get plugged in and not even be real Christians. Does this bother me? Not at all... this is a time where everything is really messy. There is no more vision as a single focus. People have different understanding of what it means to be a christian. Thank God that He can use a donkey to get relief and help to the weak and fatherless. The main thing for me is that i find people who are doing good even if it makes them most blind to their need. Because i know that its not my job to reveal to them what they have been used to rejecting on a daily basis.
We live in community where a person can be a member of Gods church and get plugged in and not ever make an effort to read Gods word in a private way. There is no personal interest in knowing God in personal communication. I know people who are the most giving people. The most socially loving people and yet totally cold to God on a personal level. This is the predominate religious American view of community. But God is spreading His kingdom even through false Christians.
This is a day and age in which people are made to think and feel there is no hope. The world system is more organized than any other time in history. If it were my own assessment i would put us in the last to the last days but maybe God has another time of a new formation of a new country. But i will say this we have turned the corner and now the American system of checks and balances is anti God. It may be a religious rehabilitation form of government that replaces God. The simple things are pushed aside for more incorporation of a a cycle of health and community. We are trapped and God is using the most messy society to bring in the last sheep to the fold. It would not only take repentance but the disbanding of this kind of system.I dont think its a loving thing to do. Its a "generational" nite mare. It doesnt matter at this point ...we should try to help our fellow citizens. God is working in the small things to bring about transformation even if sin and corruption rule the day.      
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2894  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Question on: January 04, 2011, 10:50:17 AM
Here is a question that brings into sharp focus how one views evangelism and the sharing of the gospel. I know this may trigger some heated discussion, but here goes:

Do you believe that there will be people who will go into a lost eternity that would have been in heaven had you or I been faithful in sharing the gospel of Christ and loving them unconditionally?

This is not meant to lessen in any way the personal responsibility of an individual to trust Christ or to insinuate that we can save anyone, for salvation is of the Lord. But does our faithfulness to the commission of Christ to go and share the gospel really make a difference?

Bill

Bill i do not think we put people in a box. This happens when we try to force people into our religious society. I know that when i proof read the scripture then i can create in my own mind a Utopian view of the world. There are people who look at the christian religion as a kind of organized transformation of the world. We all are guilty of proof reading the scripture in some way but sometimes we take parts of scripture and force it into our methods of organization. This is because there is no one on earth that does not measure things from a distorted view. We all are who we think we are and we all look at reality through our own personal image of the perfect man. Paul says we excuse ourselves while at the same time we accuse others. We need to understand that the bible is the only book that brings us before the mirror to see ourselves and it leads us to God. If we know God then we will be able to better understand ourselves and we will be most realistic in our assessments of this world and our circumstances. The point is not to create transformation ...the point is to glorify God and enjoy Him in everything we do. When we are most happy in God then the circumstances of life do not control us.

This is why we cannot copy transformation. We are not the creators of all of the small details of this world. Our understanding of the smallest details of life are like blind beggars. If we could see as God sees then we could claim that a situation is not fair. But the truth is that we see through the lens of fog and it really is compared to a blind man. This is why we must come to the point where we let God be God. We must rest in God. If we are anxious then we are in danger of being the actors on the stage of life. We must see that God is bigger than what we know and apply in a common way.

This is why the gospel is radical. It demands us to determine to find God alone as the only source of life! It demands us to leave everything and find all of our happiness in God. I know from personal experience that this is not just a struggle but a war. Every day i wake up i find there is a terrible tension that i feel going on in my own experience. Not only must i focus on the task at hand but i must fight a war in my heart. Religion is a tool of the devil to get us to focus on the task at hand and forget our own evil hearts. Bill... i remember in the old day... back in the day as we would say it that people looked at the problems of this life... being that the pace of life was much slower ... they would get their bibles and read them in an effort to overcome some kind of selfish tendency. We used to call it devotions. Now that can be a religious exercise too but at the same time look at how we deal with ourselves in this day and age. The first thing people do is call someone. We have lost that toughness and determination to get a hold of ourselves. We have lost our fight now we look at this as incorporation of some healthy self fulfillment.   
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2895  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: January 02, 2011, 04:35:43 PM
Theres a couple of things here about the fear of God. First its a family fear that sees everything in life as a relational response in the proper view of ourselves. This is having a single heart or a single focus. It is living before God even if we are in the world and we view life from our physical experience... yet the fear of God is to come to a point were we are able to lose a sense of ourselves out of an experience of the greatness and magnitude of Gods providential hand over the world.
Our focus is on a God that is lifted up on His throne and seeing the earth as His footstool. This picture is burned into our hearts as being raised out of the temporal to the eternal! When we rise up in worship to God we come before His glory that is High and lifted up. This is as if we were exposed to a bight light and it the effects illuminated from our face. Its more than a view with our spiritual eyes and senses but its being undone in the view of God that describes the reverence we are to have of God. Love with respect is viewing God as all glorious!
The fear of God is approaching a Father who is fully able to meet every need. It is finding all of our pleasure in being loved by our Father. That is seeing this all glorious God on His throne but experiencing a closeness of a love that is all consuming. It is seeing God on His throne as opening His arms to us in full acceptance even tho He is the most holy God who is other. When we get to heaven we will approach a Father who accepts us fully and is not fearful in the sense of being undone in before His throne!

The fear of God is have a proper zeal for His house. In heaven the creatures are continuously falling down before a thrice holy God. This means for a christian there are really two kinds of worship even tho death separates the two. There is an incomplete worship on earth and there is a perfect worship in heaven. We participate in the earthly worship as a foretaste of the heavenly one. So all of worship of God is rising to a high view of God on His throne as He is in heaven. It is viewing the heavenly worship in His word as they are described to give God the glory and there is falling down... bowing down.. singing and falling down.. and falling down and worshiping. It is like a beatific vision as the focus of the heavenly worship is toward the throne that is all glorious and unfathomable beauty so that they do not take their eyes off of the throne of God but worship Him with their whole bodies. Now then the fear of God is having an understanding of the value and nature of the eternal worship of God that is in a part the worship we experience from week to week and in our private worship. But it is being undone in worshiping God as He is to be feared on a daily basis. To really fear God is to come to be continuously befuddle at Gods greatness so that you have a panting heart after God with a sense of being undone in yourself!     
2896  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: January 02, 2011, 04:12:06 PM
“Fear of the Lord” entails…an emotional response of fear, love and trust. The unified psychological poles of fear and love come prominently to the fore in the surprisingly uniform way Deuteronomy treats “love of the Lord” and “fear of the Lord” (cf. 5:29 with 6:2, and 6:5 with Josh. 24:14; cf. 10:12, 20; 13:5). In Isaiah 29:13 Israel’s distorted “fear of me” is rejected precisely because it is made up only of rules taught by men. According to Proverbs 2:1-5, “the fear of the Lord” is found through heartfelt prayer and diligent seeking for the sage’s words. In 15:33, “humility” and “fear of the Lord” are parallel terms, and in 22:4 “humility” is defined as “the fear of the Lord sort.”
Bruce K. Waltke from The Book of Proverbs Volume 1, pg. 101

The true fear of God is a child-like fear. Some of the Puritans used to call it a "filial fear." It is a combination of holy respect and glowing love. To fear God is to have a heart that is sensitive to both His Godness and His graciousness. It means to experience great awe and a deep joy simultaneously when one begins to understand who God really is and what He has done for us.
Therefore the true fear of God is not a fear that makes a person run away and flee from God. It is a fear that drives him to God. Love for God and fear of Him are, therefore, not at all incompatible. To think that they are is to fail to see the richness of the character of the God we worship. It is to ignore the way in which knowing Him in all of His attributes, and responding appropriately to Him, stretches our emotional capacities to their limit. Scripture portrays the fear of the Lord and the love of the Lord as companion emotions.
P.J. (Flip) Buys from The Fear of God as a Central Part of Reformed Spirituality
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2897  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans Chapt. 5 commentary John Calvin on: January 02, 2011, 04:06:08 PM
19. This is no tautology, but a necessary explanation of the former verse. For he shows that we are guilty through the offense of one man, in such a manner as not to be ourselves innocent. He had said before, that we are condemned; but that no one might claim for himself innocence, he also subjoined, that every one is condemned because he is a sinner. And then, as he declares that we are made righteous through the obedience of Christ, we hence conclude that Christ, in satisfying the Father, has provided a righteousness for us. It then follows, that righteousness is in Christ, and that it is to be received by us as what peculiarly belongs to him. He at the same time shows what sort of righteousness it is, by calling it obedience. And here let us especially observe what we must bring into God’s presence, if we seek to be justified by works, even obedience to the law, not to this or to that part, but in every respect perfect; for when a just man falls, all his former righteousness will not be remembered. We may also hence learn, how false are the schemes which they take to pacify God, who of themselves devise what they obtrude on him. For then only we truly worship him when we follow what he has commanded us, and render obedience to his word. Away then with those who confidently lay claim to the righteousness of works, which cannot otherwise exist than when there is a full and complete observance of the law; and it is certain that this is nowhere to be found. We also learn, that they are madly foolish who vaunt before God of works invented by themselves, which he regards as the filthiest things; for obedience is better than sacrifices.
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2898  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: January 01, 2011, 04:03:03 PM
I meant and thought I said I was giving this thread back to you and poppy. And I guess I lied about the no interest part. I should of said it better. I detest most of the doctrines that abound in christianity. Despise them actually. As for theology. Well it is an exercise that doesn't get one anything but tied in knots if they are honest in thier study or discussings. I do like it though. Happy New Year. And put on a happy face.

Its just as bad not to believe as it is to attack someones beliefs and not expect to be frowned upon.  Grin Your problem is not frustration but you dont believe.
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2899  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: January 01, 2011, 07:37:02 AM
The "frozen chosen" are the people who are in the Reformed Way. I was once a 5 Point Calvinist.  I started looking around and noticed many in this particular group of christians were a bit rigid you might say. In posture and attitude. So since they were chosen by God to be plucked from the fires of Hell I came to see them as the "frozen chosen".

I saw that what I consider to this day that being a Calvinist was a huge mistake. It's about as horrible a system you could find. I'm embarresed to even admit I was part of that group.

Well I'll let you and mbg have this thread back.

Your not giving anything back. You were never a Calvinist. You were an actor. Youve always been a pagan... dude... just be honest. Why are you here? You have no interest in theology.. these are words strait from your own mouth. 
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2900  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: New Beginings of Lake County Fla. on: December 31, 2010, 09:04:20 AM
Pray for this ministry because they are always in need of money and food. That the Lord will provide this yr.
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2901  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Modern women and marriage on: December 30, 2010, 05:35:35 PM
Playboy mansion? More like a squalid prison: Former Playmates tell of 'grubby' world inside Hugh Hefner's empire

By David Leafe
Last updated at 12:43 PM on 30th December 2010

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The marriage proposal was apparently a rather romantic affair. On Christmas Eve, the couple watched a late-night movie together and then exchanged gifts: for him a framed photograph of their King Charles Spaniel, for her an engagement ring.

‘She burst into tears,’ he revealed on Twitter at the weekend. ‘This is the happiest Christmas in memory.’

‘The most memorable Christmas ever,’ she tweeted in agreement. ‘I love him.’
All of which might be rather more touching if the ­prospective groom was not Playboy tycoon Hugh Hefner who, at 84, is 60 years older than his fiancée, a platinum blonde model named Crystal Harris.
Match made in heaven?: Hugh Hefner has become engaged to Crystal Harris over Christmas - despite the 60 year age difference between the couple

Match made in heaven?: Hugh Hefner has become engaged to Crystal Harris over Christmas - despite the 60 year age difference between the couple

That Hefner should choose to share details of this intimate moment with the world quite so soon after his proposal is typical of this flamboyant self-publicist.
Crystal Harris shows off her engagement ring

Bling: Crystal Harris shows off her engagement ring

His image as a fast-living Lothario has done much to make a success of the Playboy brand, and news of his impending nuptials to a woman young enough to be his great-granddaughter will further promote the idea of him as a lovable old rascal who has plenty of life in him yet.

This is certainly the image Hefner likes to project to the celebrities drawn to his lavishly debauched ­parties at the Playboy Mansion in Los Angeles. The attractions there include a games house, with two guestrooms equipped with only a bed, a ceiling mirror and a phone.

Charlie Sheen, Leonardo DiCaprio and Colin Farrell are among the stars who have enjoyed romps at the Mansion, according to a kiss-and-tell ­memoir by Izabella St James, a former member of the ever-changing bevy of pneumatic blondes with whom Hefner shares his home.

Stars just needed to ‘click their ­fingers’ to seduce women at these ­soirées, recalls St James.

These A-listers no doubt delight in their association with the legendary lover. But unfortunately for Hefner, some of his former ‘girlfriends’, as he calls them, have become disenchanted with life in his harem over the years.
Party time: Actor Charlie Sheen was photographed in a robe at the Playboy Mansion party in August 2010 along with two blonds and porn star Ron Jeremy

Party time: Actor Charlie Sheen was photographed in a robe at the Playboy Mansion party in August 2010 along with two blonds and porn star Ron Jeremy

One by one they have revealed what life was like behind the glittering façade of the Playboy Mansion. According to them, it disguises a grubby world where some girls feel they are no ­better than prostitutes, paid pocket money by an octogenarian obsessive who funds plastic ­surgery to turn them into his physical ideal, and yet must still take huge amounts of Viagra to manage sex with them.

The portrait of Hefner painted by Izabella St James is deeply unappealing. A pretty blonde law graduate, she was 26 when she met him in a Hollywood nightclub in 2002. Soon, he invited her to move in with him and seven other official ‘girlfriends’.

Hefner likes to have anywhere between three and 15 girlfriends at any one time. One of the group will be chosen to be Girlfriend No 1. She will share Hefner’s bedroom at all times, while the others are merely visitors.

For Izabella, the Playboy Mansion was far from the glamorous pleasure palace she had imagined. ‘Each ­bedroom had mismatched, random pieces of furniture,’ she recalls in her autobiography Bunny Tales. ‘It was as if someone had gone to a charity shop and bought the basics for each room.

‘Although we all did our best to decorate our rooms and make them homely, the mattresses on our beds were ­disgusting — old, worn and stained. The sheets were past their best, too.
Kiss and tell: Izabella St James, a former member of the bevy of beauties, wrote a tell all book about her time in the Playboy mansion

Kiss and tell: Izabella St James, a former member of the bevy of beauties, wrote a tell all book about her time in the Playboy mansion

‘Eventually I persuaded Hef to pay for a new mattress and bed linen — but I had to turn in every single receipt before I was reimbursed.

‘Hef also eventually permitted us to have the rooms painted and recarpeted. But for some reason he insisted on creamy, white-coloured carpets. He liked the girlfriends’ rooms to look very girly, all white carpet and pink walls.

‘It looked great at first, but with two dogs (most of the girlfriends had pets that lived in their rooms — I had two pugs), butlers delivering food, dirty shoes and occasional spillages, the carpet was grey and stained in a matter of months.’

She adds: ‘But then Hef was used to dirty carpets. The one in his bedroom had not been changed for years, and things became significantly worse when Holly Madison moved into his room with him as Girlfriend No. 1 soon after I moved in, bringing her two dogs.

‘They weren’t house-trained and would just do their business on the bedroom carpet. Late at night, or in the early hours of the morning — if any of us visited Hef’s bedroom — we’d almost always end up standing in dog mess.

‘Everything in the Mansion felt old and stale, and Archie the house dog would regularly relieve himself on the hallway curtains, adding a powerful whiff of urine to the general scent of decay.’

Many girls, it seems, endured these living conditions for the chance of becoming a centrefold in Playboy ­magazine — an invaluable career boost for any glamour model.

Others admitted that they stayed only for the ­cosmetic surgery to which Hefner treated them as a birthday presents, keeping a running account with a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon.
Legendary lover: Hugh Hefner has a reputation for the high life, yet it seems many of his former 'girlfriends' have become disenchanted with life in the harem

Legendary lover: Hugh Hefner has a reputation for the high life, yet it seems many of his former 'girlfriends' have become disenchanted with life in the harem

But St James — with big university debts — was more interested in the weekly pocket money which Hefner paid all his girlfriends. ‘Every Friday morning we had to go to Hef’s room, wait while he picked up all the dog poo off the carpet — and then ask for our allowance: a thousand dollars counted out in crisp hundred-dollar bills from a safe in one of his bookcases,’ she says.

‘We all hated this process. Hef would always use the occasion to bring up anything he wasn’t happy about in the relationship. Most of the complaints were about the lack of harmony among the girlfriends — or your lack of sexual participation in the “parties” he held in his bedroom.

‘If we’d been out of town for any reason and missed one of the official “going out” nights [When Hefner liked to parade his girls at nightclubs] he wouldn’t want to give us the allowance. He used it as a weapon.’

The allowance was also withdrawn if there was any infringement of the strict rules imposed by Hefner on all his girlfriends.

‘Little did I realise that by moving into the mansion I was losing all the freedom I associated with the Playboy lifestyle,’ says St James.

‘Strictest of all was the curfew. Everyone had to be on the Mansion grounds by 9pm every night — unless we were out with Hef at a club or a function. People honestly did not believe us when we told them we had a curfew at the wild and crazy Playboy Mansion.’

Another young woman, model Kendra Wilkinson, now 25, met ­Hefner in 2004 when she was hired as a living statue at one of his ­parties, posing naked except for painted-on accessories. She moved into the Playboy Mansion soon afterwards and lived there until 2009.

She has since described how his staff noted every time one of the girls left or arrived back at the ­Mansion. Hefner would pore over the logs every morning, which, Wilkinson said, drove her ‘insane’.

‘It was way more strict than my parents had ever been,’ she says.

Freedom of a kind came on Wednesdays and Fridays, the official nights out, which were the prelude to the twice-weekly sex parties in Hefner’s bedroom.

The girls travelled with Hefner in a white limousine which had a ­leopard-skin interior, with Playboy bunny logos sewn onto the seats. As they left the mansion, they drank Dom Perignon champagne and downed Quaaludes, a prescription-only sedative drug popularised in the Seventies and now handed out by Hefner.

‘Quaaludes were supposed to give you a nice buzz,’ says Izabella St James. ‘Hef told me once that they were meant to put girls in the mood for sex.’

The thrill of being out after curfew was tempered by Hefner’s wearying habit of going out to the same few clubs, night after night. And his ever-present security guards ensured that no other men were allowed to pay the girls any attention.

At around midnight, according to St James, Hef would take his Viagra. ‘After that, he would constantly check his watch to make sure we left at the right time because if we didn’t, or the timing got messed up, he wouldn’t be able to perform later.

‘We had to line up like geese and follow each other out of the club.’

‘Little did I realise that by moving into the mansion I was losing all the freedom I associated with the Playboy lifestyle.'

As with so much else in their time with Hefner, the girls followed strict rules before entering his bedroom for the sex parties.One of those who witnessed these preparations was Jill Ann Spaulding, an aspiring model who wrote to ­Hefner in 2002 asking to be a Playboy centrefold.

Though 20-year-old Spaulding had enclosed a naked photo of herself, she claims to have been unprepared for what happened when she was invited to stay at the Playboy ­Mansion for a few days, and was asked to one of these private parties.

Beforehand, all the girls were told to take a bath. ‘I got in, then another girl appeared from nowhere and jumped in with me,’ recalls Spaulding. ‘Then Hef stepped around the corner and took a photo of us naked in the bath together before disappearing. It was all very strange.

‘Another girl led me into Hef’s master bedroom. The only light was coming from two TVs on which adult films were showing. All the other girls were there, dressed like me in pink pyjamas.

‘If you kept your pyjama bottoms on, that was a sign that you didn’t want to have contact that night.’ According to Spaulding there were 12 girls there on that first night, and only she and another girl declined the offer to have sex with Hefner, who did not use a condom.
Girls next door: Hefner poses with three models, including Holly Madison and Kendra Wilkinson outside his mansion in Los Angeles, California

Girls next door: Hefner poses with three models, including Holly Madison and Kendra Wilkinson outside his mansion in Los Angeles, California

‘There was no protection and no testing for sexually transmitted ­diseases,’ she says.

Izabella St James, it seems, was much more open about having a physical relationship with him.

‘I wanted to see if this experienced King of Sexdom knew anything the rest of us did not,’ she recalls. ‘But he just lay there like a dead fish.

‘We often wondered why he did it at all. He must know deep down that it is just a show. But he is trying to live out this fantasy he has been selling to people since 1954. He wants to live up to the Playboy image he created and the expectations people have of him.’

'Hef looked absolutely furious, and one of the girls hissed at me that I was disappointing him. I didn’t care. Hef’s face was like thunder but I was left alone.'


Although still hoping to make Playboy centrefold, Jill Ann Spaulding was determined to resist becoming intimate with Hefner and quickly discovered the consequences when she returned to his room for another of the sex parties, keeping her pyjama bottoms determinedly on. The other girls soon made it clear that she was expected to take them off.

‘I was terrified. They were all looking at me, including Hef from the bed — just staring straight at me. I said firmly that I couldn’t join in.

‘Hef looked absolutely furious, and one of the girls hissed at me that I was disappointing him. I didn’t care. Hef’s face was like thunder but I was left alone.’

Spaulding was quickly dismissed from the Playboy mansion and was later followed by Izabella St James, who left of her own accord.

Unsurprisingly both were soon replaced by a succession of blondes including, in January 2009, Crystal Harris. When she arrived, Hefner was seeing identical-twin glamour ­models Kristina and Karissa Shannon.

Since ending his relationship with the sisters, in January this year, he is said — in what must be one of the most suspect statements of the century — to have been monogamous. Unlikely as it seems, he is perhaps serious about making ­Harris his wife.

If so, she will be little envied by many of Hefner’s former girlfriends. For they know that, while life at the Playboy Mansion appears to offer all that an aspiring young celebrity might yearn for, she is committing herself to a life of squalid degradation in a cage which is far from gilded.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1342643/Hugh-Hefners-Playboy-mansion-like-squalid-prison-say-Playmates.html#ixzz19dYGwmrX


Isnt this like modern day equivalent of "boundaries" as the relationship experts  teach? Maybe maybe just put a moral spin on this and call it marriage? What say you? Is there a difference in the way grace is practiced?
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2902  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: December 29, 2010, 12:23:45 PM
This is language of the OT. What we have here is a vision of the glory of God as He is seated on His throne... and this is how God is worshiped in a way that we cannot understand. Because we live on the earth that is the opposite of what is experienced in heaven before the throne. But we must understand this repetition and revealing. We start out focused on God and then we turn to focus on the earth from the throne. What we have now is a vision of heaven from the earth and we wait for God to speak a word of salvation. This word of salvation is the necessary providence of God in coming to earth to deliver us from our trials and keep us unto the end. But this language is an old testament warrior language. Christ is the lamb that takes away the curse so that the death angel passes over the saints dwelling. And we get a glimpse of heaven as we see this Lamb upon His throne who is worshiped because of His relation to us who are on the earth, in which He is ready to bring judgment to the wicked men who are on the earth.

The seals are this word going forth in a military judgment upon mankind. But this is like our earthly worship. We come before Christ who will speak the word of salvation when we come before Him to give Him the praise and glory... and we call upon Him to deliver us. This language is the language of the word of prophecy that is necessary as if the event had happened. In a way we are offering our sacrifice of prayer before the throne of God and this response we receive from heaven is the word of deliverance that we are enjoying in these last days. For we come to God by faith and we get grace as the word of deliverance. And just like David would depend on God before He went out to battle... as David worshiped before God prior ... looking for complete victory in the prophetic utterance so we worship God looking for the word of deliverance. This is what is transpiring in a much larger scale. Because the whole earth is groaning as in the pains of child birth as men give God the glory because the earth senses that the time is near for God to judge the earth. But we have a much better glimpse than David enjoyed here in this heavenly scene.

Because we see this process of the saints who are suffering on this earth and there is a procession every day that goes to heaven. The language is as Edwards shows in prophetic necessity. There is the number of the last saint just like the saints who have already suffered unto death and hold the testimony on their lips in dieing. But the word of prophecy is as necessary as the actual event. Each saint has been chosen before the foundation of the world so they are numbered in heaven. When the last saint is in the kingdom then God will judge the inhabitants of the earth as He has done in these last days by the word of deliverance and it will be the final renewal of the heavens and earth.This is as necessary as it was spoken from eternity past. I will further explain these three chapters in showing these concepts as we show these word pictures from the OT that the word of God is unbroken.        
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2903  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Joshua on: December 29, 2010, 11:59:17 AM
Bill i was reading some where on here before i posted in theology about your dad dieing ... i will be praying for you my brother. that God will strengthen you and give you comfort. God bless you.
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2904  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Humility ... True and False. on: December 29, 2010, 09:55:38 AM
There are a few things we need to understand about true humility. Because the world system is built upon some form of humility. I think it is a horizontal connection under a system that offers security in a moral component. We are not necessarily fighting evil as if it was depraved in how it appears to us. But we are fighting against the systems of men. The world has a set of laws just like the christian world view. All men worship at an altar. These altars are the laws of men that are common in the system of this world. We are not dealing here with a common grace in accepting a certain standard of evil. But we are dealing with something that is appealing with a moral component. This is why there are radical world views that are opposed to one another. The world is made up of men who are the most passionate about what they believe. Men will make up their own system as a way of self expression. This is why all false religions have at the center a likable personality. The world offers a religious community void of the real life that is in Christ. The world offers the things that enforce individuality but Christianity offers Christ as the only real man.

 This is why we are in a battle that is predominately value centered. Because all men want a high standard of some form of conduct that is centered on profit. It is not about the amount , or the kind of humility that is needed in mans system ... but its about control of one man over another. A man will accept the christian world view as long as it does not confront his own system. This is why we are fighting principalities and powers in high places.

The christian is a person who understands truth as it is in Jesus. We understand what the reality is about what it takes to be a man. Because we look on Christ and we are taught by Him in word and Spirit. Our way of life is by a language that is totally opposite of the systems of man. We can say that our confidence comes from our identity of the real man. So we are in a way very simple people. I dont mean that we have a standard that we demand everyone live up to. But i mean we understand there is very little we can control in this world. A simple man has one love and all other things in this world are sort of impersonal to him. He lives in a certain avoidance because the christian man does not have social needs that would cause him to fret. Far too often we mistake selflessness for a lack of self respect. The old adage is that if you dont respect yourself then no one else is going to respect you. We accept the premise that grace teaches us that we are loved before we can love. God is not a child abuser.

This is why we must understand that our identity is determined by our willingness to resist this world and the wiles of the devil. If we are simple passive then the world is going to control us. If we simply said that we are required to submit on every command then we may find ourselves with unrealistic goals and unnecessary anguish. This is why we must have a knowledge of the whole counsel so that we are not deceived in some area of our lives. You must always keep in mind that if not for evil in the world and the wiles of the devil we would always be convinced of our identity in Christ. There would be no struggle ... But this is where we get resistance from the world and Satan. We are not familiar with our identity in Christ because we live in a world that does not experience the life of Christ in the souls of men. We live in a foreign land in which every thing is opposed to seeking the real Man.

This is why we have a need to express before God to bring about retribution on the wicked. God is conducting an all out war on the enemy until He returns to judge the inhabitants of the earth and have a total renewal of all things. But as we see the Lamb is on His throne because He purchased men from every tribe and nation. He is the Lamb because He bought us with a price and He will demand retribution in the return of His purchase. Where will He focus on His judgment. On the suffering the saints had to endure in the system of man. All of our resisting on this earth will one day add up to a return in our favor. This is why there is this introduction of the horses. This is old battle language. The Lamb who was slain is about to slay the wicked. This language is old testament language because it is giving us a lot of generations who have suffered so that we understand the nature of the evil in this world and the power of the gospel in preserving one generation after another.

 Now this retribution is that which God measures by the scale. Because the Lamb of God demands the blood for the suffering. Every false scale will be balanced in punishment. Here is how we become confident in the simple truth of our identity in Christ. We must stand our ground against the world system. When the world and the devil accuse us and try to convince us that we are not identified with this Lamb of God then we must resist. They may try to convince us that we are not who we are in Christ by a certain teaching about humility.

Let me say this from experience. There is battle language that we must learn in order to stand our ground. From personal experience we are resisting as if we are fighting in a boxing match. We must learn how to throw punches in prayer that hit the mark. In this case it is a head shot. Too often we are like a shadow boxer. How do we know that we have gained the victory in prayer before we are confident it will happen? It is understanding how to fight this spiritual battle. I want to say more but i will stop.     
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2905  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans Chapt. 5 commentary John Calvin on: December 28, 2010, 04:35:17 PM
18. Therefore, etc. This is a defective sentence; it will be complete if the words condemnation and justification be read in the nominative case; as doubtless you must do in order to complete the sense. We have here the general conclusion from the preceding comparison; for, omitting the mention of the intervening explanation, he now completes the comparison, “As by the offense of one we were made (constitute) sinners; so the righteousness of Christ is efficacious to justify us. He does not say the righteousness — δικαιοσύνην, but the justification — δικαίωμα, 173173     The meaning of this word is evident here; for it stands in contrast with παράπτωμα — offense or transgression, in the former clause, and is identical in sense with ὑπακόη — obedience, in the next verse. It means what is appointed and adjudged as right; and hence it is rendered “ordinance,” Luke 1:6; “judgment,” Romans 1:32; and, in Romans 5:16, “justification,” when it stands opposed to κατάκριμα — condemnation, and means absolution, acquittal, as the determination of the judge. It signifies here, that what Christ did was according to God’s appointment; it was something directly contrary to offense or transgression; and what it was is explained in the next verse by the word “obedience.” Wolfius says, that δικαίωμα is the satisfaction of Christ, or his active and passive obedience, Romans 5:19, — that δικαιοσύνη is the merit of Christ, obtained by has death and applied to us by faith, Romans 3:22, — and that δικαίωσις is the act of justification which follows from the satisfaction of Christ, apprehended by faith. — Ed. of Christ, in order to remind us that he was not as an individual just for himself, but that the righteousness with which he was endued reached farther, in order that, by conferring this gift, he might enrich the faithful. He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God’s benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him. 174174     “Nam etsi passus est Christus pro peccatis totius mundi. atque omnibus indifferenter Dei benignitate offertur; non tamen omnes apprehendum.” It appears from this sentence that Calvin held general redemption. — Ed.

These two words, which he had before used, judgment and grace, may be also introduced here in this form, “As it was through God’s judgment that the sin of one issued in the condemnation of many, so grace will be efficacious to the justification of many.” Justification of life is to be taken, in my judgment, for remission, which restores life to us, as though he called it life-giving. 175175     It is an Hebraistic form of speaking, genitivus effectûs Its meaning is that it is a justification unto life, whose end is life, or, which issues in life, that is, eternal life, according to its import in Romans 5:17, when reigning in life — ἐν ζωὟ, is spoken of; and the word “eternal,” is added to it in the last verse. This life commences with justification, and therefore this view includes what Calvin says, though it extends farther. — Ed. For whence comes the hope of salvation, except that God is propitious to us; and we must be just, in order to be accepted. Then life proceeds from justification. 176
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2906  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: December 28, 2010, 04:27:35 PM

Silent Prayer - O Lord, what evil have we not done? Or if there is evil that we have not done, what evil is there that we have not spoken? If there is any that we have not spoken, what evil is there that we have not thought to do? But you, O Lord, are good. You are merciful. You saw how deep we were sunk in death, and it was your power that drained dry the well of corruption in the depths of our hearts. All that You have asked of us was to deny our own wills and accept yours. Forgive us for every failure to do so and help us to follow You in every way and always, through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen. [Adapted from Augustine's Confessions, IX, x]



"Oh! divine Redeemer, out of whose inexhaustible fullness I would daily draw a rich supply of grace into my needy soul, be pleased to impart unto me an undivided heart; that to please You, may be my greatest happiness, and to promote Your glory my highest honor. Preserve me from false motives, from a double mind, and a divided heart. Keep me entirely to Yourself, and enable me to crucify every lust, which would tempt my heart from You. Enable me by Your grace to walk in one uniform path of holy, childlike obedience. When tempted to turn aside to the right hand or to the left, may I keep steadily Your way, until brought before Your throne, I see Your face, behold Your smile, and fall in ecstasy at Your feet, lost in wonder, love, and praise."
(Thomas Reade, "On the Blessedness of a New Heart")
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2907  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies -- final stage, phase 2 on: December 28, 2010, 11:51:29 AM
This is called synergism. Kk is simply saying that mans free will and Gods divine sovereignty can co exist. What Kk is trying to get us to think is that in order for mans will to be free there must not be any necessary influences that weigh on the will prior to the choice. But then Kk will contradict himself and say that there is a necessary weight upon the will but man is still free to chose. But when i press Kk about real necessity then he defends himself in a synergistic way. Calvinistic necessity is unacceptable to Kk because it is real necessity... that is the will exercising the power.

Kk does not believe in a necessary power because he allows man the same freedom as if the power did not exist. In Kks world man is free because at the moment of choice he has perfect equilibrium to choose to be saved but because God forces a man to come to the "perfect equilibrium" decision then you have Gods necessary force coexisting with perfect equilibrium. Thats like saying i pushed a man off of the cliff but he had a unforced choice whether to go over the edge. In this way Kk does not acknowledge a personal divine will.

 If man has a will that is under no real necessity then there is no cause for the man to choose. If the will is free only in the sense that it is between equal weights to either good or evil in order for it to be free then that is nothing. A scale with equal weights has no movement. This is simply pragmatic. The only evidence of real choice is when the scale is unbalanced either way.This is why choosing one thing over another always has a necessary cause.      
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2908  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: What do you think about this passage? on: December 28, 2010, 11:25:05 AM
I do not see any thing different in this passage of scripture with other scriptures in the gospel account. When Jesus began His ministry it was a healing ministry as well as a gospel ministry. As well as Jesus being the King of the entire world... He was also the only Prophet who spoke and accomplished the Fathers will perfectly. I believe that Jesus eliminated disease and physical suffering from the earth as it was in that day in His 3 yrs of ministry. This was the bar that Jesus set as displaying the level of faith that was necessary to bring in the kingdom of God in that day.

But Jesus did not come to bring in the heavenly kingdom to end the process of death and disease. All of these people who were healed eventually died. Paul talks about the difference in the renewal process between the body and the spirit. The body is dieing every day but the spirit is being renewed. The bigger problem that needed and answer to physical suffering was having an understanding of the completed revelation. This is why the gospel after Christ ascended to heaven was the completed balm to comfort us in our suffering. And although we cannot deny that the physical suffering has an effect on our spiritual purposes yet the bigger picture is that all things we endure are for the glory of God and for our own good.

Some people believe that when the NT church as a doctrine was completed in the completed Bible that the physical healing and the signs we brought to an end. But if you go into acts this same kind of promise is repeated. If you look at the account toward the end of acts the Apostle was on the Island of Patmos ... if i recall correctly and he was bitten by a viper... which is the deadliest kind of snake bite. But he did not suffer the bite. So i do not think it is entirely correct to say there were no more of these kinds of miracles because they slowly began to disappear as the church was formed. I believe healing still happens like the gospel accounts but i do not believe it is like Jesus accomplishments. I also believe there are high points in church history and low points. The signs are more evident when the work of the Spirit is most visible a revival.       
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2909  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: 100 point summary of Calvin's "Institutes" (to be reconciled) on: December 27, 2010, 02:47:29 PM
Kk you deny the reality of a personal characteristic that is created by God in which it defines all of the personal interaction in the purposes of God. I do not think we can separate desire from will... in my understanding that would be a divided God. And in this sense God does have a soul or a perfect image of himself. Although we could take that to its logical ends and say a replica is another god .. so we can only use language to a point then its mystery ... which is the confounding part of the image motif. Confounding brings on musing and that creates an expecting faith.  Because God it is said that Gods soul hates. Ps 11 Or God desires what He determines to bring into existence. This is where i think we go wrong.

 God has desired from all eternity whatever comes to pass. I do not think you can separate desire from image. Desire creates reality.  This is why image is not a divided reality. If we pray according to His desire or will then we will get what we ask. This is why i there is a meta physical determination upon reality. God is the only one who desires in a just and perfect way. This is why God can love and hate at the same time. He is love but He must hate sin or He would not be God and the world would have no sense of justice.
 This is why we believe that desire is the same as intellectual sight. I mean desire is from the five senses. And there is no one who desires something in this world that has not been pre determined by God because God is the most personal being. I have heard that God desires all men to be saved but He does not will it to be so. But i think that we must view God from two perspectives because we do not have two separate realities. We are one soul and we only have a personal understanding out of the nature of our own faculties. So we understand the necessity of regeneration that brings us back to this personal understanding of the reality of image as we were created pre fall. God comes as a God of love ... goodness... kindness and faithfulness because people only know a God they can see in a spiritual way. We understand that God is angry out of a sense of a need to understand and incorporate this spiritual oneness in our looking upon image. I mean incorporate in a passive sense. The more we desire God the more power we have out of a sense of distinction from another image that is not real. This is why God does as He pleases because He is able and we are unable. This is the definition of real dependence in relationship. Which is the reality of the perfect image. The more we are dependent on God the closer we are to the perfect image.
The bible says that God is a covenant keeping God because God only reveals Himself to His own. Thus God is always faithful and kind... full of compassion and love because He enables what He gives. God cannot be angry with His own children. Because anger is expressed as that which determines inability. Desire is ability and in real terms God is love because He protects out of anger. So we say that God enables and curses at the same time. God is love but it is only understood by those who see God. God hates because that is the reality of the rest of mankind. Which is Gods perfect love expressed in a perfect protective way.
This image is what makes everything in reality define cause... means and ends. This is why there is no such thing as annihilation. Because it is like saying that God does not exist in His perfect understanding of His created order.


 Please read this carefully.    
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2910  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: 100 point summary of Calvin's "Institutes" (to be reconciled) on: December 25, 2010, 08:24:55 PM
Kk uses scripture to prove his point instead of allowing all of scripture to be compared to his thinking. I have already shown kk a few scriptures with direct statements ... even in the english... that speak of eternal punishment. Unless Kk wants to admit that he picks and chooses the scriptures that agree with his thinking instead of humbling himself as he likes to encourage others to do and just quoting direct statements and even if he doesnt agree at least admit that he could be wrong.
Kk does not quote scripture in an orthodox way as if he really embraces the historical foundations passed on to us by our forefathers . Kk even admits that he is trying to bring all the different points of view... Arminianxxxs... Calvinist .. universalism... and any other doctrinal point of view... using contradictions that have already been shown false by historical arguments. Kk... does not believe in a strict adherence to orthodox biblical interpretation. He is blind to the history of the reformation whole counsel approach to word studies that have been done in 400 or so yrs as the building blocks that have given us the ability to interpret a word in the context of the entire scriptures. Kk s approach is to quote scriptures to prove that he is the only one who can bring everyone to agree.

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