One of the visions that i have as it pertains
to the end of knowing oneself is that we spend time getting to know
ourselves. I do not think that anyone can really enjoy God unless they
enjoy how God has made them. Obviously we are all gifted in different
areas. I may not even be talking about our natural gifts ... although
what i am talking about is expressed as a matter of a true expression
through our natural gifts. I believe that the Spirit gifts us with
qualities that come from a gospel disposition. We are really our own
worst enemy when it comes to how we view reality and how we fit in with
what is the highest form of expression in who we are. I guess what i am
getting to is this idea that the gospel is a gospel of freedom. Where
ever the Spirit is there is freedom. I dont mean that we are free to do
harm but we are free to know that we are able to do anything and yet we
do not want to do that thing that we are free to do whether it is good
or bad. In other words we are free to learn to understand by experience
how we are free in who we are. If God has given us the ability to know
Him ... i mean there are things that are clear to us... then He has made
us to be free in that knowledge. Faith requires us to be pre
occupied with some things ... which is a gospel promise that these
things will free us to be all that we are made to be. I am simply doing
an exercise of self understanding here. In this matter of experience
then we are looking at this free spirit to have a certain relaxation in
understanding our weaknesses and our strengths. And this is what we
accept at the time as to how far along we are. Now there are things that
are dark about us as well. So then.. we need to see that real freedom
is something that we find in knowing Christ who is the person who knows
us better than we know ourselves. So it has the idea ... i mean as a
matter of personal wholeness that we do not extend ourselves more than
we are required at that time. I accept the fact that some of us are
not as temperamentally healthy as others. That means that we know where
the line is so to speak. But we need to know that we are safe in a place
where we know we can be completely honest and transparent... before God
in prayer. We are very complicated and we are made with a lot of needs
so that we must be vigilant as to how we understand our particular line
that cannot be crossed. Our problems come in the area of being
discontented by the process of seeing things and people ... in coveting
something or being jealous of someone elses gifts and appearances. Some
of this struggle with these things is both valid and sinful. Because we
cannot altogether ignore how we feel about something. God brings things
into our lives...not necessarily as a negative temptation but as a way
to increase our ability to know by experience our own abilities and
contributions to these connections. I do not believe that we are
required to figure this out as a entirely a matter of mortifying this
away. But there is this art of vivification. Which is this love-hate
baggage we are always dealing with. I am strictly speaking from this
angle of self knowledge. In other words an odd love that which is taught
to us as a matter of fleshly flattery.. and then on the other hand this
anger from a neglect of something that has not been developed in us
either by someone else s negligence or our own. So now there is a
need in a healthy understanding that God deals with us in love or it is
out of the freedom to express this frustration... i mean... we can
become self evaluators in this free spirit. Or a grace soil. We do this
mainly out of these most personal cries of the heart. This is a
process that is indirect in the sense that we are not entirely thinking
about ourselves in this evaluation. But we are being exposed by the word
of God and we discover that it is so by His indirect searching of our
hearts. I mean in this matter of His secret operations. But this is in
the motif of the language of God being a refuge from what ever the
trouble is ... both inward or outward. This spirit of the free exercise
of grace applied to the wound. In our unburdening the emotion rather
then the exact knowledge of figuring out how to change.
3868
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free writing
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on: February 25, 2010, 09:22:08 PM
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mbG: This is why everything is actualized by God in decrees. The first cause must act by His will.
K_k: Oh, oh, brain drain. I thunk He is the First Cause, not causes it. So much for thunking so hard.
Slightly
more seriously, Austin (Augustine?) is concluding that God cannot be a
body. No, but He can, and does, HAVE a body, glorified and
everlasting. Considerable difference isn't there? What is the context
that he tries so much to prove God is not a body?
grace that amazes dissolves perplexity -- eventually
God
is a spirit... He has not a body like man. So that the Father does not
have a body and the Spirit does not have a body... Christ is God and
man... unmixed. Christ is locally in Heaven as a man... but as God is
present everywhere. Austin is easier to write... than Augustine ... i am
a bit of a lazy writer.... sometimes it shows.
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3869
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it.
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on: February 25, 2010, 09:00:37 PM
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mbG: "I guess we are all susceptible to bypass the simple things for a more complicated effort." K_k:
It appears that you may have followed this susceptibility with the
current topic. (Takes one to know one, so i qualify too...) It
started out on Counseling and how to deal with it, and seems to have
gotten somewhat lost in mental convolutions. Linear thinking is out,
they say, yet sometimes it is easier to follow than logic-spirals. Know
what i mean? Here's what seems to me to be an example: ======= "We
have in scripture two kinds of reasoning. And i think this is what has a
continuous effect on all that we understand about reality. This is
where there is this kind of secret frustration and really why we have
the need to see things beyond this kind of circular temptation. I mean
that there is a sense in which we fall into a kind of spiraling down
into sorrow and we begin to place things that have no bearing on these
experiences to hold some kind of redeeming qualities to pull us out...
as if we begin to climb up that spiraling stair case. You know that this
is the picture that we so often see on books when we are talking about
spiritual depression. I can see that two line thinking can cause a
divided reality in all of us in which it becomes a kind of circular
paradigm in which we condemn ourselves and we make a valiant effort to
exalt God at the expense of our own mental health. But the secret
avenues of all the troubles in this world are the intersections of
things that we believe that are only half rite. I see this as what we
face in a the power of this world in being deceived about what we are as
men who face the law in all of its condemning powers.The power of evil
is this lack of ability in our circular reasoning that defines the
blindness we have in dealing with our personal sorrows. Believe it or
not... the bible really addresses this deli-ma as the motif of
understanding the redeeming value of identifying this healing community
that is brought on by the attraction of this personal connection to
super naturalism... that simplicity that we are blinded by in our
attraction to circular ism." ===== I see, said the blind man.  And
as a further random question, what did you mean by "Oh religious
communities are sooo fake. We need to go ahead and wear uniforms"?
And
as a further random question, what did you mean by "Oh religious
communities are sooo fake. We need to go ahead and wear uniforms"?
If
i were under some kind of odd doctrinal paradigm in the present worship
then it would translate into my talking about this struggle with sin...
or sorrow. But because i have found a worship where i am drawn out then
these tendencies in my writing style are more about what is on the
outside. I believe that there are many ways to say something that is
true so that present experience is what allows the sovereignty of God to
define that way. Its more the American religious paradigm. I will
explain the other part too.. thanks for bringing this to my
attention.... i haven't written in this for some time.
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3870
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Hope
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on: February 25, 2010, 08:31:48 PM
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I
agree with what you have so far, and if i may be so presumptuous, your
writing style seems more lucid than it frequently is. Duh, dat meens ah
gits it pritty gud!
One little old hair-split, though. You
said: "When we are regenerated our wills are not just changed. But our
old will is destroyed."
My experience has been that my old will
is not destroyed but rather temporarily displaced or put to sleep. I
seem to be able to reactivate it, and then i have to pray to have it put
to sleep again. And again. And...
However, i recognize that in
His sight, which is eternal, my old nature is dead meat and He can see
me/us complete in the Will that He is even now constructing within us.
Can you dig it?
Thanks Kk.. yes i think its important for
us to continue to be reminded that we can reckon ourselves dead to sin
because we are. I always think about self denial as reckoning. Well this
is the bare facts and there is a lot of meta physical paradigms that
give us a sense in reordering our souls. It is lucid because it is a
soul story.
3872
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Church: Over-promise and under-deliver
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on: February 25, 2010, 01:28:35 PM
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CW - Good news - You are marked. Eph. 1:13
MBG
- You can believe or disbelieve whatever you wish concerning what I
wrote to Carolina. All I can say is - I meant it. While it's true that
all of us want God and others to cater to our desires and preferences
(at least to some degree), some of us are trying (or at least wanting)
to follow the Holy Spirit's leading (see Galatians 5:16), and not
gratify that desire. I would offer that this is very different from
someone who wants to both celebrate and actively pursue that desire.
Jim
I know you are going through a trying time... God bless you brother
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3879
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Augustine... Summa Theoligica
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on: February 24, 2010, 05:08:46 PM
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Whether God is composed of matter and form?
Objection
1: It seems that God is composed of matter and form. For whatever has a
soul is composed of matter and form; since the soul is the form of the
body. But Scripture attributes a soul to God; for it is mentioned in
Hebrews (Heb. 10:38), where God says: "But My just man liveth by faith;
but if he withdraw himself, he shall not please My soul." Therefore God
is composed of matter and form.
Objection 2: Further, anger, joy
and the like are passions of the composite. But these are attributed to
God in Scripture: "The Lord was exceeding angry with His people" (Ps.
105:40). Therefore God is composed of matter and form.
Objection
3: Further, matter is the principle of individualization. But God seems
to be individual, for He cannot be predicated of many. Therefore He is
composed of matter and form.
On the contrary, Whatever is
composed of matter and form is a body; for dimensive quantity is the
first property of matter. But God is not a body as proved in the
preceding Article; therefore He is not composed of matter and form.
I
answer that, It is impossible that matter should exist in God. First,
because matter is in potentiality. But we have shown (Q[2], A[3]) that
God is pure act, without any potentiality. Hence it is impossible that
God should be composed of matter and form. Secondly, because everything
composed of matter and form owes its perfection and goodness to its
form; therefore its goodness is participated, inasmuch as matter
participates the form. Now the first good and the best---viz. God---is
not a participated good, because the essential good is prior to the
participated good. Hence it is impossible that God should be composed of
matter and form. Thirdly, because every agent acts by its form; hence
the manner in which it has its form is the manner in which it is an
agent. Therefore whatever is primarily and essentially an agent must be
primarily and essentially form. Now God is the first agent, since He is
the first efficient cause. He is therefore of His essence a form; and
not composed of matter and form.
Reply to Objection 1: A soul is
attributed to God because His acts resemble the acts of a soul; for,
that we will anything, is due to our soul. Hence what is pleasing to His
will is said to be pleasing to His soul.
Reply to Objection 2:
Anger and the like are attributed to God on account of a similitude of
effect. Thus, because to punish is properly the act of an angry man,
God's punishment is metaphorically spoken of as His anger.
Reply
to Objection 3: Forms which can be received in matter are individualized
by matter, which cannot be in another as in a subject since it is the
first underlying subject; although form of itself, unless something else
prevents it, can be received by many. But that form which cannot be
received in matter, but is self-subsisting, is individualized precisely
because it cannot be received in a subject; and such a form is God.
Hence it does not follow that matter exists in God.
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3882
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Who are the Gentiles, nations, heathen, people in prophecy?
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on: February 23, 2010, 09:16:08 PM
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http://www.balaams-ass.com/ALHAJ/aramaic.htmThanks
Jewel.... i am not a Hebrew scholar... but memorized the book of Psalms
and proverbs... i understand the Hebrew mind i think.... but here is a
link about this controversy. This battle over what makes a scroll fit
for the cannon is not a new battle ... if you study the facts you will
find that there were only a certain group of books that were passed on
to the early church... so that the number of the scroll copies dwarfed
those outside what we have in the Bible now. I know Greek ... but this art of exegetical hermeneutics is as old as having scholarly work from Augustine.
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3883
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Augustine... Summa Theoligica
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on: February 23, 2010, 08:33:51 PM
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Whether God is a body?
Objection 1: It
seems that God is a body. For a body is that which has the three
dimensions. But Holy Scripture attributes the three dimensions to God,
for it is written: "He is higher than Heaven, and what wilt thou do? He
is deeper than Hell, and how wilt thou know? The measure of Him is
longer than the earth and broader than the sea" (Job 11:8,9). Therefore
God is a body.
Objection 2: Further, everything that has figure
is a body, since figure is a quality of quantity. But God seems to have
figure, for it is written: "Let us make man to our image and likeness"
(Gn. 1:26). Now a figure is called an image, according to the text: "Who
being the brightness of His glory and the figure," i.e. the image, "of
His substance" (Heb. 1:3). Therefore God is a body.
Objection 3:
Further, whatever has corporeal parts is a body. Now Scripture
attributes corporeal parts to God. "Hast thou an arm like God?" (Job
40:4); and "The eyes of the Lord are upon the just" (Ps. 33:16); and
"The right hand of the Lord hath wrought strength" (Ps. 117:16).
Therefore God is a body.
Objection 4: Further, posture belongs
only to bodies. But something which supposes posture is said of God in
the Scriptures: "I saw the Lord sitting" (Is. 6:1), and "He standeth up
to judge" (Is. 3:13). Therefore God is a body.
Objection 5:
Further, only bodies or things corporeal can be a local term "wherefrom"
or "whereto." But in the Scriptures God is spoken of as a local term
"whereto," according to the words, "Come ye to Him and be enlightened"
(Ps. 33:6), and as a term "wherefrom": "All they that depart from Thee
shall be written in the earth" (Jer. 17:13). Therefore God is a body.
On the contrary, It is written in the Gospel of St. John (Jn. 4:24): "God is a spirit."
I
answer that, It is absolutely true that God is not a body; and this can
be shown in three ways. First, because no body is in motion unless it
be put in motion, as is evident from induction. Now it has been already
proved (Q[2], A[3]), that God is the First Mover, and is Himself
unmoved. Therefore it is clear that God is not a body. Secondly, because
the first being must of necessity be in act, and in no way in
potentiality. For although in any single thing that passes from
potentiality to actuality, the potentiality is prior in time to the
actuality; nevertheless, absolutely speaking, actuality is prior to
potentiality; for whatever is in potentiality can be reduced into
actuality only by some being in actuality. Now it has been already
proved that God is the First Being. It is therefore impossible that in
God there should be any potentiality. But every body is in potentiality
because the continuous, as such, is divisible to infinity; it is
therefore impossible that God should be a body. Thirdly, because God is
the most noble of beings. Now it is impossible for a body to be the most
noble of beings; for a body must be either animate or inanimate; and an
animate body is manifestly nobler than any inanimate body. But an
animate body is not animate precisely as body; otherwise all bodies
would be animate. Therefore its animation depends upon some other thing,
as our body depends for its animation on the soul. Hence that by which a
body becomes animated must be nobler than the body. Therefore it is
impossible that God should be a body.
Reply to Objection 1: As we
have said above (Q[1], A[9]), Holy Writ puts before us spiritual and
divine things under the comparison of corporeal things. Hence, when it
attributes to God the three dimensions under the comparison of corporeal
quantity, it implies His virtual quantity; thus, by depth, it signifies
His power of knowing hidden things; by height, the transcendence of His
excelling power; by length, the duration of His existence; by breadth,
His act of love for all. Or, as says Dionysius (Div. Nom. ix), by the
depth of God is meant the incomprehensibility of His essence; by length,
the procession of His all-pervading power; by breadth, His
overspreading all things, inasmuch as all things lie under His
protection.
Reply to Objection 2: Man is said to be after the
image of God, not as regards his body, but as regards that whereby he
excels other animals. Hence, when it is said, "Let us make man to our
image and likeness", it is added, "And let him have dominion over the
fishes of the sea" (Gn. 1:26). Now man excels all animals by his reason
and intelligence; hence it is according to his intelligence and reason,
which are incorporeal, that man is said to be according to the image of
God.
Reply to Objection 3: Corporeal parts are attributed to God
in Scripture on account of His actions, and this is owing to a certain
parallel. For instance the act of the eye is to see; hence the eye
attributed to God signifies His power of seeing intellectually, not
sensibly; and so on with the other parts.
Reply to Objection 4:
Whatever pertains to posture, also, is only attributed to God by some
sort of parallel. He is spoken of as sitting, on account of His
unchangeableness and dominion; and as standing, on account of His power
of overcoming whatever withstands Him.
Reply to Objection 5: We
draw near to God by no corporeal steps, since He is everywhere, but by
the affections of our soul, and by the actions of that same soul do we
withdraw from Him; thus, to draw near to or to withdraw signifies merely
spiritual actions based on the metaphor of local motion.
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3884
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free writing
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on: February 23, 2010, 08:23:53 PM
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Yo,
bro'. This looks like a solo thread, but since we are one in the
Spirit, thought i might continue the writing of your new book with you.
mbG:
This is why believing has this confession of mans powerlessness . When
we rejoice in Gods power we are acknowledging that we do not cause our
own power. When we look at our own power we give all the ability to God.
K_k:
God has supreme, ultimate control of the universe and all history,
since all power comes from Him, and only from Him. And He can influence
choices made by kings and paupers simply by supplying an almost
infinitely small amount of power to the being making choices. Thus, He
never causes us to seek evil but often empowers our desires which gives
us the ability to sin. (And He pays for the sin in advance, glory
be...)
As we have discussed in another thread, He does no wrong
thereby since He sees the final picture/outcome at all points along the
apparent (to us) time-line. And His final, intricately woven
masterpiece will be perfect in every way. 'Cause that's just the kind
of Dad we have! ==== mbG: I mean everything that we have as an
experience whether it is something that we hear from Him in that direct
voice or its something that we have in our communication with our
circumstances.. not only in terms of voices but in what we experience as
we feel the effects of what is transpiring around us .. it all has an
eternal purpose to make us more like Christ. And yet what He is
designing does not always come to us in this manner of finding that all
things are purposed to be fulfilled for our good. This to me is purely a
matter of either not having the full knowledge of that image
transference or its trying to figure out more than we are required to.
In a sense we rest in Him from whatever we do not have the power to
understand or the power to overcome in feeling as if these effects are
tempting us to withdraw from being one with His purposes for us.
K_k:
A bit wordy for my tastes, but definitely a 777 rating. (And the coins
poured forth) But, then, you didn't ask for my opinion, did you? :-)
==== mbG:
He has designed us to find Him.....We look back at the word that was
spoken to us in the old illumination and that same word in our present
experience has been brighten so that we are seeing a multitude of colors
that were hidden in the old communication to us of the same words. I
really believe that this is an experience of His word coming alive in
us... speak Lord Jesus or we will die!
K_k: Yea, verily. Thus it is written. Thus it is lived.
Kk you are most kind.
K_k:
God has supreme, ultimate control of the universe and all history,
since all power comes from Him, and only from Him. And He can influence
choices made by kings and paupers simply by supplying an almost
infinitely small amount of power to the being making choices. Thus, He
never causes us to seek evil but often empowers our desires which gives
us the ability to sin. (And He pays for the sin in advance, glory
be...)
"Secondly, because the first being must of necessity be in act,
and in no way in potentiality. For although in any single thing that
passes from potentiality to actuality, the potentiality is prior in time
to the actuality; nevertheless, absolutely speaking, actuality is prior
to potentiality; for whatever is in potentiality can be reduced into
actuality only by some being in actuality. Now it has been already
proved that God is the First Being. It is therefore impossible that in
God there should be any potentiality. But every body is in potentiality
because the continuous, as such, is divisible to infinity; it is
therefore impossible that God should be a body." Austin This is why everything is actualized by God in decrees. The first cause must act by His will.
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3885
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Augustine... Summa Theoligica
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on: February 23, 2010, 08:15:21 PM
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OF THE SIMPLICITY OF GOD (EIGHT ARTICLES) When
the existence of a thing has been ascertained there remains the further
question of the manner of its existence, in order that we may know its
essence. Now, because we cannot know what God is, but rather what He is
not, we have no means for considering how God is, but rather how He is
not. Therefore, we must consider: (1) How He is not; (2) How He is known by us; (3) How He is named. Now
it can be shown how God is not, by denying Him whatever is opposed to
the idea of Him, viz. composition, motion, and the like. Therefore (1)
we must discuss His simplicity, whereby we deny composition in Him; and
because whatever is simple in material things is imperfect and a part of
something else, we shall discuss (2) His perfection; (3) His infinity;
(4) His immutability; (5) His unity. Concerning His simplicity, there are eight points of inquiry: (1) Whether God is a body? (2) Whether He is composed of matter and form? (3) Whether in Him there is composition of quiddity, essence or nature, and subject? (4) Whether He is composed of essence and existence? (5) Whether He is composed of genus and difference? (6) Whether He is composed of subject and accident? (7) Whether He is in any way composite, or wholly simple? (  Whether He enters into composition with other things?
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I will get to the rest of the facts.
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