Sunday, November 8, 2015

3980  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free writing on: January 21, 2010, 01:18:20 PM
Given this community setting .. here we have all of these different personalities and we have the differences in how we are molded in this world where we find that there are powers that blow like winds that are crashing up against other winds... and yet we are so given to phantom imaginations of what we are in community in that moment of time. We are always vacillating and subject to change and we run from the focus of the exactness of that transpiring moment in time where we would find a pleasure in the incomplete expression of all that God has determined to give us in this communication as a matter of His pleasure being expressed to us in these different personal transactions. The ultimate redeeming communication in the enjoyment of experiencing a free flow of divine healing is not always part of this experience. Community has lost a sense of special grace as the vehicle to effect common grace in the enjoyment of these differences.
We need to see that men are free to express what is real in their own experience! God is a great Shepherd. Oh how we have need of the power of Gods invisible pleasurable control in that connection to effect the proper response so that we will know the artistic stroke of finding that connection to be as personal as we possibly can. 
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3981  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: January 21, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
We are given the ability to have these spiritual struggles because we have a communication that marks our identity as people who find powers in this world that are too strong for us. There is nothing more communicative to us  than to find a person who has a great understanding of seeing these powers as the evidence of his communicative skills to expose this need. So that we are a community where we have no consistent complexity of comfort to have enough weight to deal with these thorny providence's. I believe these are all causes of the personal pain we feel. This is why we carry each others burdens on a level of imperfection. God is the only source of real comfort.
So we have this other side. When the apostle was saying that he considered all things lost for the sake of Christ.. he was not saying that he had come to the point where he had a consistent understanding that he always had available to him power to avoid his thorny pain. But i think that the Spirit originates this idea in us of a longing. These are secret tools ... i dont mean that all men do not possess the ability to become familiar with these soothing pressure points. I am meaning that most men do not know they exist. Here is this principle... that we are exposed to powers that bring us to conclude that God alone cares for us. In other words there are thorns that create longings in us to compare the help of men with the source of comfort in God alone. Listen.. .we have this other life. I cannot tell you that you will find comfort in this world in an absolute sense in the use of these means. I am saying that you will be given the distinct gift to fine the difference in understanding the incompleteness of these earthly communications and a new level of trust in divine providence communication. God meets us at our most vulnerable points of weakness.
This is why there is a beauty in being drawn away from this world. I mean that if we compare going to a far country to escape our troubles and find a level of comfort in our hiding... then we have a longing that is not like we present ourselves as being consistently available to one another. Dudes... we are prone to be fickle. Come now lets be honest. If this longing was altogether a representation of failure then there is no answer in redemption. I mean that the gospel is as personal as it can be in this matter of deliverance equaling this extended period of mystery! Something that we long for that we do not have yet!

Ok ... lets get in touch with our inner reality. OOOOOOO uuuuuu... that is so sixties.. look... i am talking here to real sinners not to disembodied spirits. Longing for escaping to a far land is longing for deliverance that is longing for relief of pain. These are Gods gifts to us as the natural and supernatural find this new understanding of the power to endure. If we could simply deal with ourselves in light of our sins and find that we have overcome these things as a way of becoming more rational in our explanation of being a disciple of Christ then we would remove the need to explore the reality of our connection to all that is available to us that is outside of ... that which we could never fathom that we could become. Because the nature of the desperation is the vehicle for us to find growth. We live as people who have the potential to be in great confusion with this vision of something that is not completely rational... humanly speaking. I can totally understand these times where we find powers in this world that overcome our longings. I am human.... that is why I do not apologize if i try to find something that is not of this world. May the Spirit come down and answer our longings. 
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3982  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is John Macarthur A Grouch Or Is It Me? on: January 21, 2010, 11:17:59 AM
Yes Bill... i agree ... i am not prepared to say that there is a teaching here but maybe a reaction. Because of all of the Reformed literature along with the American systematic function as a church dogma there has been an unintentional consequence of quenching the Spirit. Maybe this is my great passion in trying to encourage people to think more deeply about these spiritual truths. I know that in every generation we are products of these general tendencies in that generation to read these things in an unhealthy way. May I say that the Spirit is sovereign.

 When Christ left the earth He gave the NT church the dogma to prove that Christ presence would remain with His people. And in giving His people the Holy Spirit ... Christ was promising that there would be unity. The truth is that discernment is not a man made gift. The reason that we are able to discern the times in making observations about how this unity is to be worked out is so that we will be marked by this supernatural ability as the product of that unity. It is easier for us to rush to judgments and find quick solutions as we try to balance our responsibility with Gods sovereignty. My point is that since the Spirit is sovereign in how we are going to see the evidences of all of these spiritual attributes of God then there is nothing that we can do without His blessing us. I do not think that there is a balance between a mans teaching and the Holy Spirits work in that teaching... or balancing mens convictions with the work of the Holy Spirit in working in men to produce these qualities in the direction of ones life. Really... discipleship is through teaching... but teaching is given to the Holy Spirit as the only agency in which men are given light to move on and to discern these differences. I do believe this is the standard of finding our protections as a vehicle of discerning that will give the Holy Spirit His rightful place as the mark of true spiritual unity. Read this carefully.
Let me say here the Holy Spirit marks out the intention of saving men in pointing them to Christ. When we are talking about intention we are talking about a spiritual nature as the cause of bringing men into this new spiritual awareness and way of life. This is why the idea of conviction ... the quality of conviction ... does not produce levels of salvation. Lets not get confused here. The proof of anything on this earth is the argument for finding the original causes as to what is its purpose. Whether it be in a physical presence or a meta physical. This is the motif for finding the quality of the repentance that is preached in the quality of the power as that by which repentance is produced. This is why a further revelation of repentance only in Christ is the mark of the gifted ness to a mans understanding that the Holy Spirit is vehicle in which there is no rival. This is why salvation is giving men over to this passive reservation as that teaching mechanism that moves us into greater light.  We are not really dealing with a two pronged focus here. What a man thinks and what the Spirit does. But we have a single focus or we will become schizophrenic pharisees.

 This process of sanctification is not for the faint of heart. I mean as a matter of finding all of our comforts in something that does not seem to be predominately trusted in. I dont care how good you can teach... but you can hear the secret life of God in the soul of man as that by which the Holy Spirit produces this freedom in that unity. THE VOICE OF THE ETERNAL SHEPHERD ! All of these personal identifications in that life are the vehicle of bringing that focus as that by which it becomes evident the the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of power. This is the quality of that discerning Spirit.    
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3983  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is John Macarthur A Grouch Or Is It Me? on: January 19, 2010, 01:28:19 PM
John is very good at what he does. He has a large following. So its easy to just pass over all of the work that he has done. My experience in all of this name recognition is that it is secondary to all that the scripture has to say about the big picture. The reality is that all men are expendable because God alone gets the glory. So the truth is who would want to preach a message that seems to be foolishness to most of the people in America? If we are telling the message then really we are looked upon as people who are wasting our time talking about some guy who lived 2000 yrs ago and is no longer physically present.  So there is a sense in which we do not want to look foolish... we want to make the message pleasing to the audience. I dont think that the hard message is necessarily what makes the message unpalatable. I mean any kind of study of the history of the Reformation will conclude that there is red meat on both sides... the legal side and the lenient side. And really Jesus said that the opposition to both sides is the common experience of men. Unbelief is opposition to a Person ultimately and what that Person is doing at that time.
So the message is that the teaching of the  word of God is essential in understanding all of life. But the word itself is not bigger than the Personal communication of all that the word contains. This is why this illumination idea is not explainable. I mean... there is a sense in which fundamentalism can be a sort of vehicle for a culture. That we can explain this process as if epistemology is saturated in the culture of biblical interpretation and the demands for obedience as automatic. We are products of our present religious climate.
One of the evils that i have been plagued with in this matter of getting into the Reformed dogma is this idea that there is common grace and special grace. Now this is my personal view here and i am saying that i make myself aware of this because of my personality and my attraction to things as a matter of feeling and excitement. But its this who division of thinking that since God has gifted us with this freedom and this scientific culture that ... by enjoying this as a communication of common grace i am thus glorifying God because He has sanctified all things. And then you divide your life and say that going to church is your expression of special grace. Then there are reactions to this over focus.
Some people place a big premium on discipleship. They say... if you are falling into temptation because of this getting rapped up in this world .. because you are enjoying Gods common grace to all mankind then you need a little discipline. I dont want to discount this process but i am simply saying that when you see a tendency and you see a lot of people flocking to this particular brand of Reformed dogma.. then you start to question it.   I kind of compare the mass indulgence of mankind ... in my negative way... is like something new coming to the city and people get excited and they flock to that store or they go here to this club.. or they go here and there. People get excited cause they feel comfortable with the product or the social interaction they get with everyone striving to meet a common goal. So that we are naturally bent toward a religious culture. American religious culture has these attractions that create their own dogma. One of the phrases is getting plugged in.
Its easy for us to get our focus off of the things that are important. Jesus says we are like children in a play ground. He comes with the message of repentance and we say.. that is too harsh... He comes with a party and we say He is a glutton... drunkard etc. His point is that it is near impossible to get the exactness of the focus of a community that is one as an organism and not a social club.
Some people react to the antidote of this problem with fundamentalism as if when you bring up something that hits a nerve with them then they want to explain it away and bring up a truth that they see as what needs to be addressed. In other words everything comes down to a matter of obedience. I do that myself... but i am more drawn to the futility of it all...  My personal observation of this is that people live as if they are drawn to the safest place as a matter of how they appear to be. Which makes life public and private.

I am not really going any where with this just pointing out what i see. This is something that is hard to do cause i dont want to appear as if i am crossing up some of the natural longings people have. Trying to look straight ahead and not to the rite or left. 
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3984  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is John Macarthur A Grouch Or Is It Me? on: January 18, 2010, 08:04:40 PM
Some people like the big churches with people who have all different kinds of ideas bout end times.. and even carry around the model of what the reformation was like in comparison to their church and how they would fit in with the accuracy of those high points in church history. I do not see anything evil about this. Its a matter of taste. More and more i am starting to believe that God is not as neat in how He works to bring about a change to us in this community structure. I am not sure but i think ... it being more of a  theory... that there are people who need a lot of structure and a firm kind of leader. Within this ever changing society that we live in .. .we live in a very mobile society, its possible that Gods Fatherly way of dealing with us is to bring us through a lot of different styles in leadership. I think God must challenge us and so in my view He brings a church to a level of maturity and then He moves people out to begin a new church. But at the same time there are people who are rather unadventurous and they like the structure. It may be that people do not fit into the category of needing a lot of mental gymnastics. They sort of fit the mold of a kind of assembly line religion.  I still do not know if its because they are not challenged artistically to venture out or its because they dont have the mental capabilities to think as deep as others. But in all of this ... there is no place that is perfect. And my experience has been that there are times in our lives where God shows up in the most personal way in community... and then we experience a kind of withdrawal of the support. Most of the frustration in this life is because we are always given to judging something about a person or a situation according to our time table or according to our thinking of what they need.  But at the same time these personal aspects of our faith... what we believe .. where we are... are terribly important. 
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3985  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: Rush and Haiti on: January 18, 2010, 02:17:18 PM
So what do you think of Rush's new controversy over telling his listeners not to give to Haiti?

So what did Rush actually say? Did he really tell people not to donate to help Haiti? Does anyone have a source on that or is it just a rumor?

 

If you donate to the present political structure then its going to go to liberal causes. Our country is not friendly to the expansion of the private sector. We have extreme waste going on when we are looking at services in a dollar match. So there are other agencies who are involved in that are private missionary type organizations that do not have a political structure to increase their own power. If you give to the Red Cross types then you will get it to those who are in need with more direct services in place.
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3986  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: January 18, 2010, 01:01:06 PM
We have in scripture two kinds of reasoning. And i think this is what has a continuous effect on all that we understand about reality. This is where there is this kind of secret frustration and really why we have the need to see things beyond this kind of circular temptation. I mean that there is a sense in which we fall into a kind of spiraling down into sorrow and we begin to place things that have no bearing on these experiences to hold some kind of redeeming qualities to pull us out... as if we begin to climb up that spiraling stair case. You know that this is the picture that we so often see on books when we are talking about spiritual depression. I can see that two line thinking can cause a divided reality in all of us in which it becomes a kind of circular paradigm in which we condemn ourselves and we make a valiant effort to exalt God at the expense of our own mental health. But the secret avenues of all the troubles in this world are the intersections of things that we believe that are only half rite. I see this as what we face in a the power of this world in being deceived about what we are as men who face the law in all of its condemning powers.The power of evil is this lack of ability in our circular reasoning that defines the blindness we have in dealing with our personal sorrows. Believe it or not... the bible really addresses this deli-ma as the motif of understanding the redeeming value of identifying this healing community that is brought on by the attraction of this personal connection to super naturalism... that simplicity that we are blinded by in our attraction to circular ism.

This is why these clear lines between commands and promises hold such a power over us as that by which we experience these inward paradigms of meta physical reality that spring up in us as life forms.  I really believe that just as sin holds us under its power that this is intricately involved in this pleasure that we find in the enjoyment of sin. In other words we are given to a kind of phantom self in the attraction to over come sin in the aliveness and attraction of the law. There is security in a system that draws us into a kind of mental gymnastics in which we begin to experience the extremes a kind of personal connection to the imagination that we have acquired this image that we have accomplished a level of security and acceptance among men as the means by which we acquire the reality of finding all of the promises of God in this circular attraction in our need to punish ourselves with guilt and find after much grief to have a sense of peace that is mixed to create a kind of phantom image that is so common among young children.  Oh those child like imaginations!

We are dealing with the real reality here! If we could have enough ability to find these powers as the source of our sorrow rather than the thorny course of a trial and error system in this circular translation of emotional turmoil then we would be able to deal with ourselves in lite of a continuous deepened understanding of the nature of all the powers in this world as they are in real reality!  We are dealing with a single line path way here and not a circular gymnastics emotional roller coaster ride.

This is why we find that the intersection of reality is Gods absolute control over all things. Not in our road intersecting with Gods road. If we are to do anything good we must do it as if we live in a completely different connection to all the communication that is commanded of us. If we are to speak to one another in all that the bible commands then we are to speak doctrine to one another as the communication that connects us to the commands. In other words our identity with Christ brings us into the reality of what we are not finding in our intrinsic value as we know that reality of all the command power holds. I believe this connects us to the holistic understanding that the doctrines of grace tho they be all of these different explanations of  truth are like a chain of authority over the law that is not subject to be broken. So that one truth is the explanation of all the truths if understood correctly. We cannot divorce ourselves from the personal connection to a Personal agent. The only other alternative is to be fostered in this circular gymnastics.
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3987  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The incredible shrinking economy on: January 18, 2010, 10:56:13 AM
The Recession is Over, the Depression Just Beginning
Front page / Opinion / Columnists
11.01.2010    Source: Pravda.Ru
       
By Stephen Lendman

In late 2009, former Merrill Lynch economist, now with the Canadian firm, Gluskin Sheff, said the following:  

"The credit collapse and the accompanying deflation and overcapacity are going to drive the economy and financial markets in 2010. We have said this repeatedly that this recession is really a depression because the (post-WW II) recessions were merely small backward steps in an inventory cycle but in the context of expanding credit. Whereas now, we are in a prolonged period of credit contraction, especially as it relates to households and small businesses."

Summarizing his 2010 outlook, Rosenberg highlighted asset deflation and credit contraction imploding "the largest balance sheet in the world - the US household sector" in the amount of "an epic $12 trillion of lost net worth, a degree of trauma we have never seen before," even after the equity bear market rally and "tenuous" housing recovery likely to be short-lived and illusory with a true bottom many months away.

As a result, consumer spending will be severely impacted. "Frugality is the new fashion and likely to stay that way for years," highlighting a secular shift toward prudence and conservatism because households are traumatized, tapped out, and mindful of a bleak outlook. It shows in new consumer credit data, contracting $17.5 billion in November, the largest monthly amount since 1943 record keeping began.

Surprisingly, only people over age 55 have experienced job growth. All others have lost jobs, can't get them, and for youths the "unemployment crisis (is) of epic proportions." In addition, there's a record number of Americans out of work for longer than six months, in part because the "aging but not aged" aren't retiring, and those who did are coming back, of necessity, to make up for wealth lost.

Rosenberg stresses that for a sustainable recovery to begin, the ratio of household credit to personal disposable income must revert to the mean and reach an excess in the opposite direction. In the 1950s, it was 30%. Today its 125%, down from the late 2007 139% peak, with a long way to go taking years, and when it's over, another $7 trillion in household credit will have to be extinguished.

Until he retired in 1992, Robert Farrell was a highly respected Merrill Lynch market strategist and theorist, best remembered for his "10 Market Rules to Remember." Number one was that "markets tend to return to the mean over time." Number two was that "excesses in one direction will lead to an opposite excess in the other direction," and number nine was that "when all the experts and forecasts agree -- something else is going to happen."
  
According to a November National Association of Business Economics (NABE) survey, 48 top economists expect the US economy to grow 3.2% in 2010 even though the job outlook is bleak. Overall, they're so optimistic that only 15% want more stimulus, 40% said leave the present package in place, and the other 45% want the amount approved but not spent cut because it's not needed. At the same time, according to Investors Intelligence, market sentiment is at the highest level since December 2007, shortly after equities peaked, headed down, and world economies began to crator.

In his January 5 commentary, David Rosenberg notes that "Sentiment is wildly bullish....almost every survey is overwhelmingly constructive," yet reviewing 2009's market performance in the face of economic fundamentals "almost wants to make you believe in the tooth fairy." He explained that "small business (still faces) a credit quagmire," there's no housing recovery, and household spending is retrenching and hunkering down for the long haul.

The latest US nonfarm payroll report provides more confirmation. Although the headline number was a modestly anemic -85,000, Rosenberg called it "horrible" because its details showed consistent weakness. As a result, he estimates a more accurate "465,000" December decline, based on what's occurring at the small company level "where the trend in orders, output, sales and employment" has been dismal.

Importantly, economic sectors sensitive to the business cycle actually "cratered" in December, "which flies in the face of the overwhelming view that this recession has fully run its course." Also disturbing was that while "temp help" gained 47,000 jobs, its fifth straight increase, full-time employment "plunged" 647,000 last month, a clear sign that no one is hiring, especially small businesses that do most of it.

The reason headline U-3 unemployment held steady at 10% was because the labor force plunged by 661,000, the sharpest (discouraged worker) decline in nearly 15 years. The broader U-6 unemployment is 17.3%, and economist John Williams (shadowstats.com) calculates it more accurately at 21.9% by excluding manipulated changes for more valid figures. He estimates about 500,000 December job losses, not the sanitized U-3 number. He also says that a "major double-dip downturn should be obvious by mid-year."

According to Tax Commissioner Cory Fong:

North Dakota has been able to weather the economic crisis. "While other state governors and legislatures are looking for ways to raise revenue through raising taxes and cutting services, we just came through a historic session of funding both our important priorities and substantial tax relief....The winners are families, businesses and the State of North Dakota," because it's unique in one important respect.

It's the only one with a state-owned bank (The Bank of North Dakota - BND) that sustains its distinctiveness and strength. As a result, it had the nation's lowest unemployment rate of 4.1 at year end 2009 and created jobs throughout the crisis.

Established in 1919, it's been a "credit machine" ever since, according to financial writer Ellen Brown, delivering "sound financial services that promote agriculture, commerce and industry," something no other state can match because they don't have state-owned banks.

With one, BND "create(s) 'credit' with accounting entries on (its) books" through fractional reserve banking that multiplies each deposited amount magically about tenfold in the form of loans or computer-generated funds. As a result, the bank can re-lend many times over, and the more deposits, the greater amount of it for sustained, productive growth. If all states owned public banks, they'd be as prosperous as North Dakota and be able to rebate taxes and expand public services, not extract more or cut them.

Brown explains that the BND:

"chiefly acts as a central bank, with functions similar to those of a branch of the Federal Reserve," that's neither federal or has reserves as is owned by major private banks in each of the 12 Fed districts, New York by far the most dominant with Wall Street's majority control and a Fed chairman doing its bidding.

In contrast, BND is a public bank, 100% owned by the state, operating in the public interest and those of the state. It "avoids rivalry with private banks by partnering with them." Local banks do most lending. "The BND then comes in to participate in the loan, share risk, buy down the interest rate and buy up loans, thereby freeing up banks to lend more. (One of its functions) is to provide a secondary market for real estate loans, which it buys from local banks. Its residential loan portfolio is now $500 to $600 billion" in a state with around 700,000 people and thriving.

- an Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine reported study said about half of US children will rely on food stamps during some portion of their childhood; for black children, the figure is a shocking 90%; and
  
-- another study showed less than half of college students graduate on schedule, and most who quit or temporarily drop out, do so for economic reasons; in addition, graduates face bleak employment prospects in the worst job market in decades.

Nonetheless, in his upcoming State of the Union address, Obama is expected to repeat his post-China trip message that fiscal austerity (meaning sharp social spending cuts) is necessary to cut the public debt. In other words, bankrolling Wall Street, health insurers, the drug cartel, other corporate favorites, and war profiteers will continue while working Americans won't be helped during the greatest economic crisis in their lifetimes, a protracted one that will last years.

Looking ahead in 2010, the state of the nation for most people is dire and worsening, and 2011 looks no better. City mayors are on the front lines dealing with it. So are governors at their state levels, but increasingly they're getting less help from Washington from an administration with priorities leaving them out and the millions they serve, on their own and out of luck.

  

Its function in the property market helped it "avoid the credit crisis that afflicted Wall Street when the secondary market for loans collapsed in late 2007 and helped it reduce its foreclosure rate....(Its other services) include guarantees for entrepreneurial startups and student loans, the purchase of municipal bonds from public institutions, and a well-funded disaster loan program." When the state didn't meet its budget "a few years ago, the BND met the shortfall."

In sum, state-owned banks have "enormous advantages over smaller private institutions....Their asset bases are not marred by oversized salaries and bonuses, they have no shareholders" demanding high returns, and they don't speculate in derivatives or other high-risk investments. As a result, BND is healthy with a 25% return on equity, paying "a hefty dividend to the state projected at over $60 million in 2009" and well over five times that amount in the last decade, so it begs the question why other states don't operate the same way. If enough of their residents demanded it, they might and not suffer the way nearly all of them are today, two notably - California and Michigan.

California - A State in Crisis

Conditions are so bad that rumors suggest a future bankruptcy that would be unprecedented if it happens, but a more likely worst case scenario would be default. Either way is the same if on all state obligations, and in 1975, New York city was on the brink with its lawyers at the State Supreme Court filing a bankruptcy petition on October 17 and police cars standing by to serve papers on the city's chief creditors, the banks.

At the last moment, it was withdrawn after the United Federation of Teachers used union retirement funds to back city loans and saved the day. At the time, few knew the danger or what it meant. Today many states face the same bind with California most significant because of its size. As a nation, it would rank 8th economically in the world, so a default would affect the entire country, and perhaps other states would follow.


Theres is some liberal stuff in here but its interesting.
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3988  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Open and closed mindedness on: January 17, 2010, 06:14:10 PM
I do not think we can determine the sides in this battle for truth. Because we cannot read the hearts of other people. So that we have an obligation to trust what they are saying. And even if it looks like they are not on the side they claim to be on ... yet God is still the ultimate judge. Now then what is the epistemology of this since every that transpires in this world is a result of either God working these things out for the good of His own or working to bring judgment on the reprobate. In other words it is terribly important that we can have some kind of identification.
The reason is that the battle is between God and Satan but we are caught in the middle. I dont know about you but that is to me ... terribly important. There is nothing good in being naive ... which is the precursor for trouble and it really answers the old adage ignorance is not bliss. Knowledge is not just something that we accumulate to think that we know more than the other guy... but knowledge is given to us so that we might be able to have some kind of guide lines to identify when we are caught in the middle of this spiritual battle and the people both religious or secular are going to oppose us. I dont mean this in an absolute sense ... God is the only ultimate judge.
But yet there are friends and there are enemies. And just because there is a line drawn does not mean that it is what we think is the true division of who is standing with us. But we know that the rule according to Gods commandments is that a friend of God is our friend and an enemy of God is opposed by God on our behalf. Then we can leave the retribution to God alone. But we still are required to have our minds fully engaged in this battle even tho it is much bigger than we could imagine.
This is why we are required to have a growing spiritual knowledge of all that God has given us. Because the more we know spiritually the more clearer these sides will become to us. There is one thing about claiming that we know something and then we go head long into the trap of the devil. I mean everyone brags about being a loving christian but wisdom is the reward of itself. It would be like someone in defense of his particular religious convictions and yet he doesnt know enough to defend that he knows. And this is the problem with self deception. This is why things do not always appear to be as they are judged to be in this world. God alone knows the heart. But we can pretty much figure out that laziness is not bliss either. Its no argument that we are loving.
We must be drawn out of the worldly view of reality. We must begin to feel the spiritual opposition. If we are to know there is a spiritual battle then we must know what the opposition uses in order to trap us. It does not mean that its just about temptation but its about us and people. This is why Jesus demands are more than just the self and how it is saved in feeling comfortably accepted. Salvation is the denial of everything in place of Christ. If it was just a change from one thing to another then that thing would always get in the way. So we always got to keep in mind that conviction of these things is a total acceptance that there is nothing on this earth that is worthy of our total trust.  I dont think it means that we totally are sanctified and we just got to become like we are ... i mean as a matter of the will. There is a slow progression here and there is a way of grace that must be ingrained in us as if we are being implanted with divine transformation. This is why we must rise to know our God as a way to know the personal trials and the people who would do us harm.   
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3989  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is John Macarthur A Grouch Or Is It Me? on: January 17, 2010, 05:27:12 PM
I got to come to Macs defense cause he doesnt compromise where the essentials of the faith are involved. I disagree with him on his end times theology so i got to say rite off that the disagreements with him are not as major as say... a modern day semi plagenist or a liberal. I think that it is very difficult when you have a lot of responsibility and there are a lot of people who listen to you to be able to answer all of the different questions as to the personal aspects of the work of the Spirit. I really only saw Mac in person once .. i enjoy listening to him.
I can see where you could make the case that he is overly dogmatic about two line theology. And there also are some difficulties that i have with him on his epistemology.
I dont agree that there is no system of theology that is correct. I believe in the WCS or the LBC in the entire doctrines of grace. I believe that you can preach through these confessions as equal with his verse to verse epistemology.
I agree with him on his position of standing firm against liberalism and semi plagenism and plagenism. I would not sign any document in a position of church leadership that gives the impression that i stand on that side. But i believe in having open communication and in loving the brothers who are not in agreement about these issues. I think i have stated the reasons about being consistent on what i believe that is in line with an oath i took to uphold these doctrines of grace. So that in not standing with these doctrines i am breaking my oath. I really believe it falls in line with the evils of duplicity not to uphold what you have sworn to.     
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3990  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Open and closed mindedness on: January 17, 2010, 11:50:15 AM
Double predestination is absolutely essential to understanding the nature of all that we need to understand about reality. There is no in between reality that exist in the mind of man ... it is only a wish or grasping at phantoms. All men are like phantoms compared to eternity. I dont mean to insinuate that our lives do not mean anything... i am just stating that dependence on God has this finality in our experience as if everything was determined to exist in our experience as if there was no hope of any change unless we understand Gods determination of all things in the nature in which He made all things. I do not believe that we can choose to understand something in order for us to know who we are as this world is purposed to end. People are either being hardened in their sin or on the other hand they are glorifying God in real reality. There is no ability in man to position himself to receive salvation.
If we are thinking in real reality then salvation is truly being saved from something and not rehabilitated to be saved. So that we live in a world where there are two sides to all that we experience. In other words there are only two dogmas. What ever middle ground there is has nothing to do with the ideas we trust in as being the causal propositions that create the reality that we live in. Because we live in a world of identifying ourselves with the perfect Man as our real identity. So that all reality is in one Man and we know reality as we know Him. For to me is live is Christ! This is why we are not defined by our sin... in terms of the causes of why we are saved.

 I believe that all of life is determined to be a real experience as we focus on the causes of why we live in this world. The understanding of reality is in the causes of everything that exist. The intent to understand anything outside of this motif is what Adam did in the garden. If we are going to understand the paradigm of dependence then we need to start it in pre determinism of the universe. The universe is the reality of two distinct paradigms. The natural paradigm is the reality of death.. and those who are identified with Christ have been risen to new life in the recreation. So that all of our redeemed longings are to avoid whatever paradigm of power that this earths reality pulls us into. This is the land of the living.  Because our identity is only real as we find that things are as they are because they are ordered by God and they would be too much for us to will that they be any other way.
3991  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Open and closed mindedness on: January 16, 2010, 05:45:30 PM
Ah .... the art of skepticism. I am not a skeptic ... i just need to question everything you say. And so... i am what i describe others should not be. Almost like projecting reality before we have established exactly what reality is. And if it is just a fact of something that exist  then it leaves no possibility that there are things that exist that cannot be proven. Which to me is another denial of the artistic stroke of what determines my experience. I mean my future experience does not equal my past experience.
 There are certain elements that change in this world in time because this world is always changing. And even tho there are certain things that happen as a matter of repetition .... like the sun coming up.. etc...yet there are a number of these things that change as the circumstances of life whether they are repetitive or come as a matter of a new experience yet how a person determines what he is going to view as a matter of his future communication has not yet brought him into the existence of these distinct experiences... because there is nothing totally identical in any experience in time. So then knowing this as people of faith we do not need to accept the fact that there is no possibility that things that we do not understand do not exist.  We are not skeptical in our initial response to someone with a valid point because we leave room that there are things that cannot be proven.

And this is why we have so much confidence that circumstances are always fluctuating and changing because God is doing things in what seems to be in our view a mass of confusion as that by which God is working for our good. Because if everything was explainable in our experience of the future then our
95  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: All men cleansed from sin on the Cross ... on: January 12, 2010, 11:13:48 AM
Shalom, beacon2.

This is an interesting post Retrobyter.  We cannot trust the KJV or the NIV renderings, but you are asking us to trust in yours. ummm

b2

Hey, you know what? In some ways, you're just as exasperating as ... another member of this forum. (The name will remain hidden. Those who remember will know.)

All I'm trying to do is share the truth with you. Look it up for yourself! All you need is a Greek New Testament. See if what I'm saying isn't true. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." Nothing I say is going to cut through that stubborn streak. A man must be teachable if he's going to learn anything. C'est la vie.

STILL and ever in the Messiah's love for you,
Roy

I agree with Max... the apostle only made a distinction about the doctrine of salvation. If it were differences in other matters the apostle left that ultimate judgment to the Spirit. He said that those in the church that if they did not agree with him then God would make it known to them. Lets try to be patient with one another.
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3996  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free writing on: January 12, 2010, 10:18:24 AM
One of the reasons that i write is because i find that every truth has this quality of comparison. I dont mean in a sense that it is only in its rational application as a matter of proving something that becomes an example of the truth. But i mean in matters of comparing truth to its counterparts in a meta physical sense. There is only one way... there is only one Truth. Both in terms of its rational process as a matter of the reality of creating the image of exactness on a conscious level and the physical wholeness that is so different and attractive in another sense. This is why truth is caused to follow a pattern out of the need of a rational explanation as to how it fits in with that process. Truth follows this line of reasoning in the causes... its means... and its ends. This is why we can have a united under standing of the real worthiness of all that transpires in this world.... what deserves the reward of the proper reality that finds in the end true glory in glory.

All that truth is as a matter of our view of truth is finding the proper process of the rational thought in linking it to its causes ... means ... and ends as it becomes the image of all that we know in relation to the reality that we understand about ourselves. This is why there is such a disproportionate image as the stream of irrationality connects us to this dark abyss of all of these ideas of incorporation that bring us into connection with one another in this image of a reflection of the safety of this incorporated molding. I call this the rebuilt inner child.

 If i could compare it to a biblical concept it would be the experience of what the bible terms as a divided soul. I believe that truth has it shadow of the image of itself in a rational sense in a modal idea of something that appears similar but is an anti truth. We have this example of the inner child and the reflection of the inner child. The inner child is the experience of the truth about ones self and the reflection is the process of coming to terms about the truth about oneself. Both of these ideas are the incorporation of a process of coming to a rational enjoyment of the image of oneself. May i say that an image of oneself is full of mystery and that mystery is the art form of something that is in itself an image of the truth in the worthy idea in finding the causes of the meta physical realities of understanding the conscious process of self understanding.
The totality of understanding in this world is the incorporation of the truth in all of its available knowledge in the event in terms of what transpires in this world and the creation of the idea of what is true about oneself in the hidden image of the finite comparative understanding. So that we go from a total self image in this matter of the reflection of the comparative finite hidden image as a matter of finding the truth about oneself. I would say that Austin pinned this concept by saying that one is restless until he finds all of his happiness in God. Because an image is only true if it has in it the ideas that are incorporated in the full understanding of the truth about that image. I mean that there is always mystery involved in our finite incorporation.       
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3997  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The incredible shrinking economy on: January 12, 2010, 09:19:51 AM
Copenhagen Summit Turned Junket?
By Sharyl Attkisson

......Our investigation found that the congressional delegation was so large, it needed three military jets: two 737's and a Gulfstream Five -- up to 64 passengers -- traveling in luxurious comfort.

Add senators and staff, most of whom flew commercial, and we counted at least 101 Congress-related attendees. All for a summit that failed to deliver a global climate deal.

As a perk, some took spouses, since they could snag an open seat on a military jet or share a room at no extra cost to taxpayers. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was there with her husband. Rep. Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV) was also there with her husband. Rep. Ed Markey (D-MA) took his wife, as did Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI). Congressman Barton -- a climate change skeptic -- even brought along his daughter.......
#  Three military jets at $9,900 per hour - $168,000 just in flight time.
# Dozens flew commercial at up to $2,000 each.
# 321 hotel nights booked - the bulk at Copenhagen's five-star Marriott.
# Meals add tens of thousands more.

Steve Ellis of Taxpayers for Common Sense, wasn't against a U.S. presence. But he said, "Every penny counts. Congress should be shaking the couch cushions looking for change, rather than spending cash for everybody to go to Copenhagen."

Nobody we asked would defend the super-sized Congressional presence on camera. One Democrat said it showed the world the U.S. is serious about climate change.

And all those attendees who went to the summit rather than hooking up by teleconference? They produced enough climate-stunting carbon dioxide to fill 10,000 Olympic swimming pools.

Which means even if Congress didn't get a global agreement - they left an indelible footprint all the same. 
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3998  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free writing on: January 10, 2010, 01:09:34 PM
You know i have been meditating on these scriptures for quite some time. And i do this in an art form as if i were doing gymnastics or some other kind of exercise routine. I will half to say that this has become somewhat of an obsession. I dont mean that it makes me something that i am not humanly speaking but if you have ever experienced being a new self... you know that there is something different. I dont think that i know this world in my view of things like i used to. I got to admit .. .i have lost a sense of my old self that is terribly frustrating to me as far as my social skills are concerned. I do not have a self that gets encumbered by future plans. I mean i am not all together here in this world in a sense that my inward experience has become a new life form. I thought that He was like me but He is entirely different than i am. And i know Him in a way that causes me to see things in this world as unimportant to how they relate to my true self. I know that you want me to be completely genuine in my friendship with you. I know that you want me to love you as if i loved the most cherished thing in this universe. But that is the frustration that i must carry because i am not what i used to be.  And i have experienced this other side for quite a while that i am drawn to another reality. Sometimes there is no other way to approach this world other than to see that it doesnt hold the power that it promises. Its just that it has become more of a temptation to go back into that realm of humanity. The voices are not even the same as they used to be. I have lost a sense of self that is concerned on a level of wanting something that will only draw me into wasted hours of being connected to the lower designs in a soulish sense. I find that this spiritual exercise of meditation has really created another reality. I cant promise that i will be normal any more. What i thought was normal has changed. I know you are frustrated that i seem so far away at times but it has come as a result of a slow process of becoming something that will not be consistent with what i was in yrs gone by. I have experienced this mystery that is beyond what i thought i could experience and the uncertainty of this journey in the future causes me to lose a sense of what i trusted in the past. I hope you understand our struggle. i dont want to go back to what was safe. 
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3999  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: January 10, 2010, 06:54:57 AM
Total Depravity: Although fallen persons are capable of externally good acts (acts that are good for society), they cannot do anything really good, i.e., pleasing to God (Rom. 8:Cool. God, however, looks on the heart. And from his ultimate standpoint, fallen man has no goodness, in thought, word, or deed. He is therefore incapable of contributing anything to his salvation.
John Frame

"they cannot do anything really good, i.e., pleasing to God (Rom. 8:Cool

...which bring the response...so what?   Are we saved by being good or by believing in Christ?

Does reformed theology keep thinking we are saved by WORKS?
Does Rt believe we are saved by FAITH?

The answer is No for both questions.
RT does not teach we are saved by our faith in Christ, it teaches that we are saved by another method entirely.
Rt teaches that faith in Christ, repentance for sin play absolutely no primary role in salvation. They are merely the result of a choice made by God. Just an irresistible result in a chain of events started some inexplicable selection by God.

This is a false Gospel and is blatant in it's falsehood.

RT flies in the face of Scripture that says calls everyone to believe in Christ in order to be saved.

God softens the heart of man when he hears the Gospel (parable of the sower) No original sin prevents man from responding to the Word because there is no such thing. There is only every man's sin. God gives faith to believe but man has to act on that faith otherwise his intellectual faith does him no good. The devils believe but they don't choose to trust in Christ.

Bible Faith is not just a Noun, but Bible faith is a Verb...an 'action' we take toward Christ when we first truly believe.  If anyone's faith is just a noun then they are not yet born again. 

Salvation and God's creation is a much grander and more complex plan than RT gives credit. Give God more credit He doesn't have to pick the winners because His creation is too broke to function due to a slight over-sight on God's part.

Jesus came so when he was lifted up He would draw all men to himself and reconcile those who believed to God.
Sin sacrifices don't pay for sin, they are acts of faith that follows a contrite heart. They cover or blot out the sin
in God's eyes because of the offerer's faith. God sees the faith an accounts it for righteousness. 

Thor Smiley


Thor... you know me because we have been writing back and forth on this issue for about 4 yrs. I do not understand why you think that i am the one who narrows this down to just a theology of regeneration. Your the one who is not giving the complete view of the gospel. You want me to say that salvation is a matter of giving something to God in repentance... like if i was an adulterer then i would need to stop committing adultery in order to be saved. And if i  said the words that i was sorry for my sin then i would stop doing the sin to prove that i was saved. Thor ... this is a very infantile view because its basically is not the whole gospel. Look because you have been so offensive in your approach to me its hard to have a conversation with you about this. Who wants to talk to a person who is always trying to make the other person feel guilty? I am trying to be nice.

This site has always been a Calvinistic site. You know what i believe because of all the interjections that i have written in opposition to your one tract theory. The bible describes salvation as purely by grace alone... that is unless God comes to show a person his need then that person could not possibly understand what he is being offered. If a person could connect himself to God by his own understanding then salvation would depend upon the man to respond on what he knows. If salvation depends upon anything other than God giving it freely then it is no longer grace. I do not know how much clearer i can be. I am not discounting the need for man to respond... rather it is the truest idea of the expression of free will... a man does exactly what he desires. Because his heart has been changed by God. 

If it is like you are saying that salvation is dependent upon our repentance... that is giving up something that we are required to quit... some sin.. and then we receive salvation...then why do we need Christ? My own personal observation about your theory is that this encourages in our communication or writing to place ourselves in Christ position. And eventually we do not even need to talk about Him as our Savior but as a good ole buddy.

I apologize for being a bit meta physical... when writing my response to you i will try to give clear examples. But its been 4 yrs on this Marry- go- round.
skepticism about the impossible would define us as exactly what we are trying to prove is not correct. But on the other hand if we begin to see the detail of why experience is never the same then we will know there are more chances that God is going to work it out... what seems to be impossible. Events do not happen because we understand them and they are explainable. Events are outside of us and the only power we have is what we choose in these events.   
4003  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free writing on: January 09, 2010, 12:06:02 PM
Every man if left to his own pride would desire the total destruction of all the good that exist. Thats why we look outside of ourselves for a Personal remedy. In a sense because we are so familiar with sin then we experience these effects in having a real personal addiction in the experience. I do not think that we can escape the lingering thoughts that we entertain in this matter of personal justification. This is why people experience the effects of sin in a personal feeling why both in terms of their physical connection and spiritual connection to pain. In other words because we all carry around this addiction to sin then we live in a world where we must contend with being inconsistent in our reactions to all that transpire in our lives. I mean if we could divorce ourselves from pain then we would need to go out of this world.

Pain is interrelated to all of these different addictions that we have... i mean... the consistent message is always the same whether it is a matter of a lack of self awareness as to our interrelation of our love for a odd awareness to our being in a frame of shame or guilt or fear ... we never escape this tendency to find comfort and pain as that divided mentality as the motif for this state of sin and death that we are in. Because we experience pain we have a deep conscious affliction of experiencing a consistent failure to prove that we are faithful enough in this world to change the reality of what we know is true in being the example of what complete freedom is as to our addictions!

If we could be pain free for one moment on this earth then we could be perfectly free. But because we are not perfectly free then we cannot help but be under the power of some kind of affliction! This is why there is nothing absolute in the means of faith that work in a perfect way as connected to a corrupted consciousness. Therefore we do not find that we are in a comfortable enough state to always understand how we are to react as having this new reality and newness of life. Because pain is power to inflict a kind of affirmation to addiction in which we often have relations with our guilt and fear and shame. If we were to rid ourselves of these friends then we could be that person who could show the rest of mankind the reality of having a relationship with freedom that would transform and direct men to find.

 But for some odd reason we act differently than what we know is a healthy view of being affirmed that we are accepted in our addiction. Because we live in the absolute power of sin.. i mean ... if we are to be under the power of something by our choosing then we do not experience the reality of being free of the rest of the reasons why men fall under other powers. We must uncover our willingness to think that we can achieve a level of consistent support in the society of men as the means to find comfort in a sense of perfect equilibrium between pain and addiction with love and acceptance.

May i say that the tendencies in all of us are not the dangers because they point to the need for dependency. The language of our souls will always run as pain is experienced on a conscious level. Everyone experiences these inner voices that are as natural as the experience of pain. This is why we have such a hard time coming to terms of living in a sense of helplessness to our own selves. We do not feel enough freedom because we do not have enough of the tendencies to be absolutely assured that we deserve to be rewarded for our need for grace ... it is the paradigm of an addiction. Please people.. listen to me... do you know when you slip and fall into an old sin? Then you have the fresh pain of guilt.. or that kind of desperation that there is no real answer? Look.. you must realize that just because you have this experience over some  event that you fell into... yet you experience this every minute of every day but you do not know it because you do not have enough awareness of just what kind of pain that sin has inflicted in the total awareness of the course of this world.
This is where we are enabled because we have a new ability to find grace as a matter of seeing this secret addiction that will never go away. Grace allows us to treat everything... i mean.. every detail in this life as a personal interrelation of all that we experience in this world in lite of our interdependence on God. The reality of our lives and the pain we experience as a matter of the inward attraction we have in our addiction is that by which we become familiar with the honest reality of our connection to Christ. We are drawn closer to Christ in this mindset.   
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4004  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: January 09, 2010, 10:50:58 AM
Total Depravity: Although fallen persons are capable of externally good acts (acts that are good for society), they cannot do anything really good, i.e., pleasing to God (Rom. 8:Cool. God, however, looks on the heart. And from his ultimate standpoint, fallen man has no goodness, in thought, word, or deed. He is therefore incapable of contributing anything to his salvation.
John Frame

To know this God, who both condescends to share all that we are and makes us share in all that He is in Jesus Christ, is to be lifted up in His Spirit to share in God's own self-knowing and self-loving until we are enabled to apprehend Him in some real measure in Himself beyond anything that we are capable of in ourselves. It is to be lifted out of ourselves, as it were, into God, until we know Him and love Him and enjoy Him in His eternal Reality as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in such a way that the Trinity enters into the fundamental fabric of our thinking of Him and constitutes the basic grammar of our worship and knowledge of the One God.
Thomas F. Torrance from The Ground and Grammar of Theology (pg. 155)

Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty.
John Calvin
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4005  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why is salvation by Faith? Why aren't we just saved because he died for us? on: January 09, 2010, 10:14:41 AM
MBG, I didn't mean to imply that we have total power to choose--even faith is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God.  I agree it begins with looking upon the glory of God, but then a response is required--to keep looking upon His glory (step into the light) or to run from the light (remain in darkness), hardening our hearts to the sound of His voice.

It's a mystery that some looked to the snake in the desert and lived while some stayed in their tents and died.  So also with Christ--there are two separate responses.  While we don't have power to give ourselves the gift of faith (or produce anything worthwhile from our own generated faith/works), there are plenty of verses that speak of holding us accountable for how we respond to the free and gracious offer of redemption in Christ our Savior.  Just as God placed the offer of choosing life or death before the ancient Israelites, we have a choice to make.  If we choose to step into the light, that doesn't make us powerful or proud or put us immediately to work creating proof; it makes us completely dependent upon God alone for our salvation.  We step into the light and let Him do what He will.  We cease our own pointless, pitiful, prideful striving.

If we put ourselves in the shoes of Jesus for a minute... think about it as You offering yourself to other people in the most personal way in order to save them from themselves and the way they think is the rite way to go. Here you are as God coming down into a human world and taking on all that humanity experiences as being subjected to time. But You have come from eternity so that You are intimately acquainted with every ones form both spiritual and physical. Not only that but You knew all people from eternity! Would you use the same language that they used as a matter of personal salvation ... i mean the most personal language where it would be a matter of being assured that you know Him as the only voice of reason in terms of what you view as personal?
In order for this kind of transaction to take place ... i mean... from a sinless and most holy Person to a sinful and blind person ... then that person would be in need to be healed of his blindness in order to experience this personal connection. This is why Jesus uses the language of an impossible transaction to happen unless it was truely miraculous in the words condemnation. I mean if we were to describe how we come to know anything in this world it would be a matter of choosing what we know is rite. It would be a matter of saying something that would connect us to a person that we respected and we wanted in our lives as  a friend.We would think that if a person offered us a gift then we would take it and we would want that person in our lives as a friend.

But i think Jesus knows us better than we know ourselves. First of all Jesus is intimately acquainted with true freedom because He is what sets us free. If He simply said that i have salvation and you have a free will... your lack of ability is not really what i am saying at this time then because we are powerful enough to choose Him apart from an understanding of what He has said... i mean... in terms that He knows freedom to be described as... then we would ignore exactly what He is trying to do... to our own prison. And this is exactly what the state of condemnation is. Its not just a pronouncement on someone but it is state of being in total alienation from all that connects us to the ability to see correctly. If we are enabled to be free then it must be caused to be totally given to us by Him as a favor. This is the focus of the message here. 
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