4051	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Forgiveness	on: December 15, 2009, 09:25:26 PM
Now then we begin to try to create an environment of forgiveness. And i would say that any time we determine to do something that we do not have the authority to do in this universe where we are required to do things as a matter of complete dependence on God then we in some ways are doing it in the "flesh". If there is any thing that causes more confusion in our lives and the lives of others its this matter of knowing the difference between our own knowledge of doing it based upon the real knowledge and understanding we have acquired in thinking thoughts after God. Let me say this that there is nothing that is so obsessive and anti social than to do something that we think that God said! My motive is not to be mean here .. just to make your thoughts as personally secure and open before a loving Father. This is why we do not represent being obnoxious in a connection to someone in representing it as a pre meditative act to do so. I dont mean to imply that there is no such thing as pre meditative obnoxiousness. I am simply saying that all we need to do is be as innocent in following something that seems peaceful and rite and yet its our own way! Most of the worse evils are preformed in the spirit of unity!! But God has made us a very simple way. He has said if you begin to think like me then you will avoid the pit falls in this life. I dont mean that you will not find yourself in some kind of predicament. I am simply saying that in knowing Gods ways then you will know how to get out of them or you will avoid them. And you might say that it is all about avoiding evil. This is not necessarily so because evil is spun in the hearts of everyone and we dont know what they are thinking. Evil is a deep abyss of mystery. We must focus on how God has made us to guard our hearts. This is getting to this art of doing things that we are not necessarily understanding in this matter of a greater eye on the detail of the circumstances and the communication of things we do not know but it will become something we understand. Because life is not planned in an understandable way. Gods ways are not our ways.
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4052  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Forgiveness on: December 15, 2009, 09:09:07 PM There is only one reality in our sins being forgotten in this life. I talk from experience. I know some of the worse sins. The reality is that forgiveness is not natural to human beings as a matter of knowing it in terms of the experience. There is a lot of concrete explanations of finding forgiveness. But forgiveness is only found outside of our being able to obtain and enjoy it. Because forgiveness is found in a person.. Jesus Christ. One of the things we do in this area is play mind games. I think its because we do not believe in a direct effect that comes down from Heaven into our experience. We first of all do not understand this casual design. I mean that we really believe as a matter of a natural frame of mind that we do things we do not want to do. So that our natural experience in forgiveness is that if there is nothing hard in finding forgiveness then its really not worthy of being forgiveness. I think its because we do not focus our attention on the causes of our choices. This is why the simplicity of the gospel is soo hard for us to grasp. We actually think that since people talk about forgiveness that they are familiar with it. We believe that since we see two people come together in a relatively good spirit who had been opposed about something and then they settle their differences that this is what forgiveness is all about .May i say that if forgiveness could be obtained in this realm of resistance to something... even resistance to hate that it is not real forgiveness. Some people have such a hateful disposition. So that they are interested in finding love and in obtaining a sense of love they do it for finding other people as a matter of being accepted. I mean that we as human beings have such a hard time of judging between what is a true conviction..  what is real opposition.. what is influencing us in these matters of anxiety and fear and anger. We find that the confusion that we confront in our own hearts demands something from us. Some kind of therapy. We are creatures of finding purity at the end of resisting something. We think that temptation has a certain resistance by our own willing it to be so. We are like the guy who builds these walls against temptation.. who begins to become proficient in resisting things and we teach ourselves that the bible is communicating this to us. It is possible for us to view these things in a purely meta physical power play. But the plan of God is found in the causes of all of these unseen powers to produce the reality that we live in. The simplicity of this is the mystery of why it is so effective. Because all things that exist are caused to exist by a simple word from the mouth of God. In a sense everything is before Him as present and all things are concluded to go as if it was already culuminated.   This is why forgiveness is only in God . Its only in Christ. If it was obtained in any other way then God would need to apologize for all of the false communications and applications that we have in understanding our being able to experience forgiveness in its simplicity in Christ. We really would put God on the stand to explain why its so difficult to resist these meta physical sorrows in this life because forgiveness is only experienced in this community way. It would be determined by some other connection. But forgiveness is extended by God according to Gods willingness to take care of the problem of obtaining forgiveness. So that God is not required to forgive based upon any performance or any reason outside Himself! This is the definition of a simple and purely free forgiveness that is found in Christ Remove Reply Quote Notify

4053	Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Drinking beer is not a sin? I think it is.	on: December 15, 2009, 08:24:17 PM
I agree .. sometimes we can create our own definition from scripture because of the culture in which we live. It could be because of the level of depravity that we live in.. or it could be that we know someone that has not been able to get out of the cycle of addiction to a substance. It could be that we even have an impossible time with some things in our own lives that we try to avoid for the purpose of living without the tension that it would create in us. But the truth is that on the one hand God is not a child abuser ... and on the other hand we must face the fact that people are not going to change over nite who may be difficult to deal with. May i say that no matter how much we confess our sins we still are going to see these things present in our lives. Because as John says that if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves. So that even if we were to confess every known sin... i mean as close to perfection as we possibly could... i mean as close as Martin Luther kind of confession.. we still would need to face this sorrow and difficulty in this life. My point being then it could be possible for us to make this a practice and not enjoy the forgiveness as a matter of free grace. I think this is a general rule and not a demand. Because as you must realize that we do not live with a Father who is waiting for us to confess our sins to Him. In fact if you are to apply the whole of scripture.. any obedience that we do in this life is in the spirit of grace. That is the real reason that we confess our sins is because we know and understand that grace is a very powerful antidote of communication from our loving Father. For who wants a Father that if we ask for a piece of bread..that is some form of life giving influence... something of a quality of spiritual and physical enjoyment from... if we ask for this He gives us conviction... a sense of worthlessness and a greater need to try to balance our sorrow out with more confession. The point being that He has determined to love us as a Father would love His child when everyone else is crying for justice and we are defending our children. This is the love of God in Christ. I mean when we were saved ... we came out of a life of sin and destruction. We did not confess prior to our "one confession" ..and yet all of our past present and future sins were wiped clean from our list. I think that we were not willing at that time to take upon ourselves the responsibility of doing something in order to atone for our sins at our salvation. Now then why? Because we did not feel that we were efficient enough and the sin was piled up before us soooo high that we knew that if He didnt forgive all of them we would never be able to enjoy one moment of peace as security in our christian experience! Well what happened to us? Instead of using John to buttress the fact that we are forgiven... we use it to convict ourselves of the "need". WHy do we go from the spirit of grace to a legal spirit? Because we become self sufficient by the constant practice. The old saying is that people who do something over and over again begin to do it without any experience involved. But we are required to grow in the grace and the love of our Father. That is we must give up this notion that the law of something stands in between us and God. There is a free flow of divine favor extended to us that is ever growing as we feed on the mercy and forgiveness of our Savior! And so this in a philosophical sense is a plea for us to get up after we have fallen and enjoy the comforts and pleasure of His divine grace! Feed on His love and you will know His disposition.. and in knowing Him you will always find Him available to take your sins and give you all that you desire!! That is the Spirit witnessing with our Spirit. Has this been the reality of your falling? 4065  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is this a hyper-calvinistic statement? on: December 13, 2009, 10:12:14 AM I have read a lot about the Tiger Woods story because here you have a story where what appears to be a story of honor, decency, and faithfulness from those looking in on Tiger, what you have is just the opposite. And i like to study the behavior of those who have made an impact on my life... cause i really liked watching Tiger. And to be honest ... coming from a family of sports, competition, and winning Tiger was one of those MJ types to me. What is so intriguing about this story is that it is a telling story about our times. I mean living in a country where there is this great focus on counseling and the efforts to get men and women to fulfill their covenant responsibilities to one another. Its interesting to me that if you take away all the physical appearances of this story you have visual look at the nuts and bolts of the real heart of man in any kind of position of prominence and power. I am talking about this silent war in all of these different paradigms of the meta physical. Because it is out of the heart of man that proceeds all of details of the story of ones life. Tiger is more than just a party to a series of actions against his wife and marriage. But he is a representation of modern America. This is what is so intriguing about this story. I dont want to go into the statistics but you can see how easy it is for one to go down a road that is very rough. But as i have been saying in the above post that deception lies rite in the heart of man and these spiritual paradigms are not going to be controlled by the modern efforts of men in bringing two parties together. The reality is that salvation in Christ is the only answer. If we think that the world is a place where we find that comfort and human happiness is achievable through a certain method of behavior and that our own tendencies to give into a way of temptation will be balanced by our philanthropy then we have been lulled to sleep about the confusion that is going on in the hearts of men. Let alone all of the powerful motives to add to this story the cultural wars that go on between the powerful and the underprivileged.The sense of freedom even when one is sinning does not necessarily make it necessary that we abandon a balanced remedy to change. I mean too often we portray this life as having a transformation in our freedom as christian to be above this whole kind of prostitution scheme. But the truth is that it may become more fierce of a war of attrition in the back rooms of our own hearts as we grow in our faith! Because religious prostitution is what this physical example is as God sees it in our lives with one another. It goes on all the time. This is a visual stark picture of the suffering that goes on because of this tendency to rule as men who have no back bone in our beliefs. This is why we have the story of Hosea in the ot. God was using the story of Hosea to point out the hypocrisy that rule in that time in the religion in Israel. They had sold themselves into slavery by offering their children to the world and sacrificing them on the altars of all of their gods of pleasure! It was so bad that even the elect were deceived. There is nothing new under the sun. Everything that remains hidden will be exposed. This is why we need grace. Because God is not mocked. His name will be glorified. Even Solomon could not run from Him. And Solomon s life has more intrigue than this story. But God has made a new way in Christ alone. though grace alone .. by faith alone.. to procure a way for man to begin this renewal process of all that He has procured in His Son. Our slate becomes completely clean.. in the covenant promises our sins .. those we committed as a youth are forgotten. All of our tendencies to find pleasure in things that will not last are becoming new. Not one good thing can we do... there is no other identity in which we can be made new. Our old names...our representation from a purely physiological , and philosophical stand point are gone. We dont even have the same representation in a legal sense. Theres no amount of this worlds goods that could change the soul of man. We are forever caused to find all of our security and happiness in Christ alone! And because of this new name we are going to be rewarded by His life lived through us. We do not belong to this earth.  4066  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is this a hyper-calvinistic statement? on: December 12, 2009, 05:49:29 PM When we are in a state of death and alienated from God we live in a world where we are blind to all that exist in our personal reasons for our existence. I think this is a divided paradigm and then it becomes utter confusion so that it becomes what the world is in that culture. But when we are regenerated then most of the confusion comes from the outside to the inside. So the matter of growth is going from a person who lets situations ..things that have no relation to our understanding of the depth of the confusion in the world to confuse our new inward reality.As we grow we observe this confusion so that we know that confusion is good in being able to discern. If everything seem to us as normal then we would have no hope in our experience because these things have a way of personally molding us. Now then we are in need of the means in order to begin to filter all of this worlds invasion. And not only do the means .. bible .. prayer.. fellowship worship sacraments... help us to filter but they help us to know the difference between the inward communication and the communication that comes into our ears and eyes. As i have said here we must have some kind of understanding of our basic weakness in order to see the need to read both these worlds in the fullest manner. I think we since we have a sinful nature and we have the great accuser then we begin to look inward as a general rule of having an unhealthy balance. Really.. our biggest struggle is in this area of teaching. Teaching we learn both from what we teach ourselves and what we are taught. This is why this meta physical world is like a path way. We are on the path of being taught by our great Shepherd. This is not a path of bits and spurts of extreme methods to counter act our sinful tendencies. This is a path of finding that one desire.. it is slow and methodical. It is a path were the light is bright enough to shine at the next step from learning. We get a little light and that is His searching us to apply this to our understanding of the next step! This is why we have so much confusion about this holistic learning method that God has made us in living in this lite of His presence. Because we think that if we do something then we are progressing in this way. This path only creates the healthy way of moving onto the next step.. it doesnt move us or make us move.  So that we must learn to move when He speaks! Here is what He says to us... He has promised us to bring us to the end of the path.. to give us the power to move on the path.. to teach us as a way of giving us a sure place to stand as we move down this path. He says  to us you move when i move you.. you are able when i enable you...you learn when i teach you... so that the path is total dependence upon this voice. In other words we have new desires.. new longings... we long to be and we are. There is no way that we can move from this path.. but there can be a lot of frustration and uncertainty.  So that i get back to this holistic understanding of what we listen to from within and from without. Because this will determine the quality of the experience of lessening the frustration... of learning to rest in Him .. of being aware of what knocks us off kilter into much anxiety and fear. Now then.. we have all of these kinds of traps that we must avoid. It is absolutely essential that we learn how to listen to Him.    Reply Quote Notify 4067  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is this a hyper-calvinistic statement? on: December 12, 2009, 04:16:22 PM Quote from: Obed on December 11, 2009, 02:06:47 PM That's cool.  I've been a slacker today and have taken most of the day off of work.  And I agree that there are some major problems (that's why I'm not a Catholic).  I just don't think those are worth breaking fellowship over, nor do I think they merit each group considering the other to not be *real* Christians. Let me just makes some qualifications here. When i talk about this issue of a fundamental disagreement with the other side.. and i am not just talking about the Catholic entities but some of the protestants who do not think this is an issue. First of all... i am not talking about breaking fellowship here, or keeping continued open dialogue. I am not talking about saved and unsaved in these two sides in an individual sense. I am not talking about these areas of professionalism where a wise counsel would a good thing to consider even if you disagree with their positions. I am talking about a specific set of circumstances where oaths about the essential doctrines are involved. This is from a confessional view point.  First of all taking oaths before God.. .in this particular argument its a clear understanding of justification by faith as it is stated in the WCF and how one upholds ... teaches ... desires and supports .. .defends... and protects.. is the moral compass of all that transpires in the church. I think that loyalty to ones position as it works itself out in the taking of oaths is the quality that brings about the culture of unity and obedience. "All who swear by Gods name will praise Him" Its just like marriage.. its the church.. not only is she our mother but she is like a wife. These kinds of spiritual paradigms are alike. I mean i have had the experience where there is a division of this doctrinal approach in a family and they have very different communications in how they affect the quality of unity in that family. I have heard that its a matter of the two line mentality that makes a assertion that in order for us to get along we can take the good points of a religion ...in other words it irons out that the Calvinist are very good at doctrine and living life before God but the other protestants are better at the practical propagating through books and other programs. I have even dealt with people who send their Calvinist kids to churches with programs that teach Arminius principles. I am not making a moral conclusion here..  just a matter unity and discernment . In living in this culture one is always confronted with these individual decisions about who and where and what they are going to face as far as a teaching and a kind of quality of life in that environment. This is in my opinion a  culture with the potential of facing a lot of heart ache and pain over these different disagreements and determining the wises method of progressing when we are making all of these individual decisions. Not only this but we are required to protect the lives and minds of our little ones. So what i am saying is that conviction is drawn out of a rigid and dogmatic position of these essential doctrines because when we are convinced of our position as Calvinist then we are in essence taking an oath before we make this oath in front of our brothers.In other words the quality of life is determined in our convictions lived out. I am simply speaking about a clear agreement on these essential doctrines and not "burning the bacon." The reason that we keep to our oaths is because what ever we teach about these things whether they are in the church or outside the church is how we are loyal to one another. If there is no real conviction then there is no loyalty and there is no unity. Because these things can be reduced to a redefinition as to place the member in watering down these convictions in these categories of personality traits, psychological profiles, communication skills, what a person ate for dinner. This is what the kind of disloyalty that the bible calls setting a trap for your brother. In other words we are creating a situation.. whether we intentionally do it.. which is only really a mark of a reprobate.. but even unintentionally we are placing the burden of standing for a position that we all agree on as if that person had wrong intentions or again placing them in these categories above. When we bring this evil on our brothers then we are not loving. This is the cause of spiritual lethargy. "All who swear by Gods name... will praise Him." A definite reference to ones faith... unto Glorifying by enjoying Him forever. We are required to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.  Our discernment about these ulterior motives ... not reading the motives by saying they are deliberately making someone stumble...but we must avoid these traps. This is because we are required to guard our hearts. For these convictions are the well spring of life. These motives are the drawn out of the general health of our desires. And what we find is that we as Calvinist are honing in on something that will determine the quality of our worship experience. Our worship experience is an inward reality of all that we experience in this collusion of our desires with His pleasure.  We are very simple social creatures. We have a very complex inner world that is full of confusion. Because we produce order from this dis integrated inner world. Our quality of inner experience is in our understanding of the kind of loyalty that we have in this kind of teaching that we depend upon as our basic salvation experience. In this meta physic structure we see things that give us the view that this world is very discorded and its not that we avoid all confusion but we are very detailed in our understanding of this one desire!! To glorify and enjoy God forever. No teaching that is odd will penetrate our past efforts to guard this one desire. Thats why as we grow small details of doctrine represent our conviction to a enliven this one desire!!That is why Calvinism is absolutely vital in in understanding that deep quality of life.          Reply Quote Notify 4068  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is this a hyper-calvinistic statement? on: December 11, 2009, 01:32:27 PM Quote from: Obed on December 11, 2009, 01:20:49 PM I'd agree with that, MBG, with the caveat that there's a time and a place for everything.  I find Dr. Sproul's  need to bring up differences in soteriology within the context of the Manhattan Document to be... strange.  Unfortunately, the blog post Pianoman quoted from isn't on Ligonier's site anymore, so I don't have access to Sproul's entire arguement. In my study of theology, the conclusion I've come to is that much of the argument is based on nuance and semantics with each party not really understanding the others' positions from the others' points of view.  E.g. Reform theologians only looking at Catholicism from Reform eyes rather than trying to understand Cathoicism from a Catholic point of view and vice versa. For my money, as the Bible doesn't teach a systematic theology, we have to take any systematic approach to theology with a grain of salt.  Also, salvation is never a matter of affirming the proper doctrines; it is a matter of faith in Christ.  We can all have some pretty screwed up beliefs and still be saved. Even while I think that the RCC blurs the lines between justification and sanctification much more than I'm comfortable with, I don't remember the last time I went to Mass and didn't get Gospel truth.  By contrast, most of the time I hear the most popular of the Reform preachers, all I get is Law (perhaps "Moralism" would be a better term... but you get what' I'm saying). All that is to say that an accuastion of Phariseeism points both ways. I have been working a lot lately and am tired.. but i will pick this up with quotations from the catholic encyclopedia soon and show some clear problems with the essential truths. Reply Quote Notify 4069  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Disallusioned With Church? on: December 11, 2009, 01:27:49 PM Quote from: mylife4him on December 11, 2009, 05:18:37 AM I am disillusioned by the fact that very few Christians read God’s word daily. It is not just that but to me it seems that even very few teachers or preachers try and get our focus on God and not how we feel about ourselves. I am confused how many read every other book but neglect the Word of God. I am confused how so many make so much money off of Christianity, it is the new money making venture. I am confused how so many sit in the pews every Sunday when there is so much in the world that the church could do to help. It seems that we boycott, judge, condemn, alienate and make money when our children are taking the back seat to keeping up with the Jones’. I understand that we are not perfect and trust me I am but a worm saved by grace. I really am scared especially in the United States how we have become so apathetic and numb to reaching out and touching someone. The only thing I rest in is that God is in control and His will will be done whether or not we are used. I choose to be used by God to do what I can and to be the change I would like to see. When I get up in the morning I fill my mind, heart and soul with the word of God and try to give that love to just one person maybe with a kind word, or a hug, or just to listen. God has given me so much Grace because of who I was that my dream is for every person to experience the love of God and give some of that love to others. Life is to short and there are so many hurting people let people experience the love of Christ through us. They may never know or want to know Him unless we change how we treat each other and others. The church is anything but perfect. Thanks to the imperfect nature of its participants, every kind of local church we imagine or bring to expression is marked by human flaws, missed expectations, and disillusionment. But the church can’t possibly live up to its ideals. We have to realize nothing made by man is perfect but it can strive to continue forward with hope that no matter what troubles arise – within or without – the church it will survive, because people always need to be around people that will love them, and for MOST part, the people I have met at church, I do believe have huge hearts. Unfortunately I have stumbled again across more of my own disillusionment about church in recent years. While my husband and I are believers , we see the dark side of church. What we would think would be a place of love and acceptance is really a place of masks and judgments. Our hearts just yearn for something real and authentic. Don't tell us about love, show us. Don't tell us you have it all together let us know you struggled and can still run the race. Don't give us programs or activities, give us relationships. I know deep in my heart there is something more that the Body of Christ is called to be and God will get us there. If I truly believe He can do "all things" then I should stop doubting that He can make His Bride spotless and beautiful. I have a bit more soul searching to do on this topic. I am not quite there yet. I constantly get frustrated and stirred by the church but I want to be in a position to help Jesus' Bride not stumble her any more. I repent now for the times I have spoken against the church and Body at large because of my frustrations. I was wrong and know that I was not only speaking against the Body of Christ but Christ Himself when I put the church down. It still may take some time before we see transformation happen but I so desire to see it through. I am determined to work through my disillusionment and find God's true perspective on this issue, no matter how many times I have to go before Him about this. m4 i appreciate your honesty. You know.. i have been attending church for a very long time... i probably would write the same thing...but not as clear as you voicing your frustrations...  but then turn around and write something wonderful about the church... you would say... how can you reconcile both positions? Cause its about us too. Reply Quote Notify 4070  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is this a hyper-calvinistic statement? on: December 11, 2009, 12:26:05 PM In the end it doesnt matter what RC or anyone says. Its getting to the details of the disagreement. All this other stuff is just Hollywood religion. Reply Quote Notify 4071  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The incredible shrinking economy on: December 10, 2009, 07:54:19 PM America Creates Serfdom Through Cap and Trade As I have stated before, when dealing with the American government, expect only the most illogical extremes. The so called Land of the Free, has decided to recreate the ancient and rejected art of serfdom. As anywhere in history, serfdom was set in gradually with restrictive laws that slowly or quickly ate away at the right of the people to move freely, thus guaranteeing the government a stable tax base and its favorite enterprises, a stable work force to exploit, one that can not walk away. In America that is about to be done by their new Cap and Trade Law, that will more than likely go into affect next year. Only one of the chambers of the parliament has passed it but the other will soon. In the name of all things green, humans in the Anglo-sphere will be turned into serfs. How interesting. The Greens or rather Watermelons, Green on the outside, Marxist Red on the Inside have found the perfect tool with which to leverage the futures of all peoples in advanced nations. No longer is the cry of power to the people, as the cover for the power grab of the more equal amongst the "equals" but instead it is the cry of Power to the Plants and the Fishes and the little buggy things that fly around and annoy you....oh and it will cost the future of yourselves and your children, but Gia will love you when you are decomposing in her belly, serf. But how will this be done? In the giant, unread "democratic" bills that the American parliament loves to pass, some with literally up to ten thousand pages of unread and undebated laws. (and the Americans were only ranked 19th on the list of the most corrupt nations?) To be specific, Cap and Trade (American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009) will force all home owners to make extremely costly efficiency upgrades to their homes, for energy efficiency, before the government will give the serf, er citizen, a license to sell their home. Of course, before the process begins, the serf must get and pay for a government inspection and another after the upgrades. The level of "efficiency" will be set by the law and will rise yearly, but an appointed commissar, a national Environmental Protection Administrator, will have a further power to raise the standards as high as "needed". In other words, if the indebted, cash strapped peasants of America suddenly find ways to make those improvements and regain mobility, well, we will just raise the bar even further, steal their mobility and bleed them for more cash. This will of course result in a trained and educated work force wedded for life to their present residence, as is intended by Section 202 Building Retrofit Program. Major local employers, in the pocket of the Anglo states (or are the states in the pocket of the local paymasters?) will have a captive work force to squeeze. This will be especially true in mill towns where other choices of employment will be non existent. As for the uneducated masses, and almost half Americans never finish basic school, dropping out, they are not going anywhere anyways. Of course, an unintended consequence will be that many more people will simply abandon their houses, as they migrate to seek work. Might the Land of the Not Quite Free reinstates another quaint age old custom: debtor prisons? Surely, this might make sure that the serfs do not run away. Stanislav Mishin Mat Rodina: Pravda Remove Reply Quote Notify 4072  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is this a hyper-calvinistic statement? on: December 09, 2009, 06:19:51 PM Let me say this because i have always been very sensitive as to my natural predisposition. Nothing that transpires in this life is just a matter of argument over a position. I mean to argue over a position may be in the rite spirit .. or the spirit of Stephen. I do think that the curse is not just a matter of something that transpires in this world. I mean that Paul was very personal as to the mixing works with grace. I believe it had something to do with cutting... so cutting is a metaphor for avoiding at all cost. Now avoiding at all cost is not foolishness. I know avoiding can look rather weak and can even translate into being inflexible as a natural disposition. But life is a required study of these different powers that we cannot control. In the ot the curse was some kind of physical ailment... or it could have been an actual angelic host working to bring the person to madness. To say that we are only dealing with a matter of ones personal experience as it relates to assurance is very short of this whole problem of learning an evil disposition. The personal nature of God is in His unfailing love.. His faithfulness.. and His kindness. The most worthy idea on this earth is the most worthy example of these attributes. So that in a sense being in ones rite mind is having an understanding of that Christ was the only man worthy of this position. Salvation is only in Christ. And i guess if we could measure the amount of oddity in our disposition it would be to some how bring something about this to bear on our own ability.  Well dont we all struggle with ourselves in light of our inability to deal with some of these powers? It is as natural to exalt the only worthy Man as it is to know the extent of our powerlessness in these areas. What we are talking about here is having some kind of redemptive hope outside of ourselves. Otherwise the power that is too strong for us would dominate our disposition. This is partly why we have difficulty with the spirit of fear! See there is no way around this position of bondage outside of the gospel spirit. In recognizing and exalting the love and faithfulness of God we are declaring that all other forces that are not under this care of too strong for us. You cant intellectual understand yourself unless you are fimilar with this difference... i mean as a matter of applying the gospel as the working principle in drawing near to God!! Reply Quote Notify 4073  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is this a hyper-calvinistic statement? on: December 09, 2009, 05:42:35 PM Quote from: pianoman on December 09, 2009, 04:30:05 PM Cant we all get along? LOL From conversations I have heard before, clear or perfect knowledge is one of the hyper calvinist proofs for being saved. Then I saw this from R.C Sproul, you can see the full column about the manhattan declaration and why he didnt sign it at the link below.  "Let me be unambiguous: Without a clear understanding of sola fide and the doctrine of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness, you do not have the gospel or gospel unity (1 Cor. 1:17; 2 Cor. 5:21). http://new.ligonier.org/blog/the-manhattan-declaration/ Wow i dont know were to start. I guess let me say this.. the gospel is justification by faith... salvation is by grace alone.. through faith alone .. in Christ alone.Let all other gospels be anathema. I mean i cant be fearful at this point.. Paul says let them be accursed. Its the other guy standing in the room as a natural outcome that we are avoiding here. The curse guy.  There are reasons why fear of teaching the truth is just like being in bondage to the law. Because there is an either or proposition here. Either a person believes that there is nothing he can do to obtain righteousness or to be righteous in himself unto that time where he obtains his final salvation or he believes that there is something that he can do to be acceptable when he stands before God on that day. If he believes that only Christ can speak on his behalf before the tribunal of God then he will always have an assurance that he is saved at any point prior to this event. If he believes that he is sharing his responsibility to be acceptable before God then he will never have assurance on this earth. If he believes in shared responsibility then he believes that he must face the law in order to be acceptable to God. No matter what terms one uses this is why enduring a curse is so destructive to the human psyche. Bondage is in the message and the message is what puts people into bondage. Thats why the apostle was so dogmatic about this. I will talk about the 5 points next. Reply Quote Notify 4074  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Invasion of Privacy...help! on: December 09, 2009, 11:01:14 AM Yes i agree this is a very degrading process. Big brother is invading every ones private space. If the world has become a place where a second or third party is able to make judgments about someone and impune their character that says a lot about the moral state of those who are taking that liberty to have that ability. Who would want to have something said about them in which they were labeled and put in a group simply on the basis of someones inaccurate knowledge of the entire circumstances surrounding the events. There is only one Person who has that rite. It is God. Who wants to play God? I mean lets forget if the guy is guilty or not. To obtain information that may be rite is to make partial judgments. The fact is there is nothing in this world that is an absolute fail safe system that is just. Otherwise we wouldnt be making so many errors of putting innocent people in a bad light. Who is big enough to be the final arbitrate of another man? Even if the person got into a divorce over the guilty party who committed adultery.. does that mean that the innocent party is not culpable on any level? Please... that is pure ignorance. The reason that it is just to divorce is not because one person is more guilty than another but its to protect the party from the abuse in the future. It really says nothing about future success for the innocent party. There is no fail safe process in justice. There is only one Judge that measures all things from the secret thoughts in a situation. But if the world is a system that does not believe this then it will be a world of false impressions... quick judgments... destruction of someones reputation... and ruining a future ability to pardon someone.  This is why God measures based upon the hidden things that man cannot measure. We have a God who looks on every communication ... every thought... every action and He weighs every minute detail. So that when we begin to think in a more detail fashion then we see that what is said in any situation is really more important than whether a person is guilty or not. How one treats his neighbor is how he would want to be treated. So that the question is if someone is spying or peeping on me what would they think if they were being peeped on? How would anyone like being talked about from a person who had no personal knowledge of that person who they impugned? If the world was based upon the ability of men to create a society where there was no privacy even if the behavior was not acceptable to anothers standards of conduct then that world would be a place where there would be one man thinking of doing harm to another man without even knowing the man personally. Do you think God is pleased? This is why the history of man is so corrupted. Because the world is defined as a necessary set of human standards to be enforced in order for men to obtain power. The point is that there is no one who is to be trusted by what he appears to be. If the system of man was created by those in power do you think that system would be from a just rise to that position? My God!! who would trust that and not end up being completely fooled!!!  we are soooo gullible. This is an upside down world.  Reply Quote Notify 4075  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: December 09, 2009, 09:47:39 AM Let me give the other side to this. What we understand as we acquire wisdom is from a vessel that is very short of what he knows is true. Any one who has lived on this earth for some time and has acquired a lot of knowledge .. knows how upside down is this world. If the world were simple its only because the understanding is moronic. But ignorance is not bliss and God requires us to know Him. If we simply tried to follow what we know is true then our own ignorance of God would determine our failure in the future. Because this is a  world were the reality of what we know as to who we are will determine what is determined upon our circumstances and not the other way around. Dont be sooo weak minded people! Ignorance of Gods ways will be the creation of trouble. Because this world is filled with trouble.. pick your poison! We do not avoid the poison we are inoculated from it! Listen to me... action without knowledge is the same thing as a death sentence by determinism! Nothing in this world is accomplished outside of Gods secret counsels. It is true .. i would rather have a man who smokes cigars.. who is gifted in the ways of God than a man who is pristine who is moronic in many ways. Dont be foolish there is some very attractive views about how God gifts men! If we punished all sinners who were exposed for their foolishness who had blessed us with the gifts from heaven then we would have a very platonic world. We would have a Victorian world. Relinquishing pleasure in the form of personal enjoyment gifted to us by God for a world of bondage! We could get that in a monastery. Just because we are exposed to evil doesnt mean the world is defined as reprobate in terms of the extent of that evil. For evil lurks in the religious institutions in secret reprobate. For schemes of a mans heart in the back rooms of politicians and religious institutions are the real as all those visible reprobations that society displays. God judges the heart where there are all kinds of murders... lust... deceit.. malice .. leaving men forlorn.We are talking about fighting a war of attrition on these invisible powers in order that there might be freedom to be a liberty as God created each man to be. Dont short change this doctrinal world view.  Reply Quote Notify 4076  Forums / Current Events / Re: Tiger Woods or Cheetah Woods?? on: December 09, 2009, 09:07:51 AM Its a dangerous world out there.. lots of ways to fulfill all of a mans desires... but the problem is that were there is easy access there is always a very powerful temptation for self destruction. I mean.. we all carry around a potential time bomb not only trying to fulfill all of our lust.. but in terms of flirting with our sin in ways that lead us into one room and then the door is closed only to find another room open to our sights. Sin is so attractive.. and then the slope becomes really slippery... and before you know it we are doing things and saying things that we never thought we are imagined. Its not really foolish looking at all the fun he was having and saying wow.. that is so attractive.. i mean who likes all of the problems and being vulnerable to being homeless from one week to another? This world is filled with men who want something that will in the end be sudden destruction. I often wonder why when reading about this how we forget the word sudden so easily? One day we are having our fun and the next day we are imprisoned by the pain of our lust! And this cycle seems to answer a lot of our needs . But it really is self destruction and in the end eternal suffering in a very sudden and surprising turn of events ... by either passing into the other side unplanned or finding that we are reprobates in front of the world. Thank God that He doesnt expose all the hypocrisy of this world... i mean in terms of what He sees in what we would consider a very upside down way. And thank God that He protects His own from such painful exposure. Wow.. a little fender bender and  a world of pain... the vehicle and his busted lip are insignificant truth tellers. And then i wont even go into this whole idea that it is a world turned upside down when we are focusing on a man who chases golf balls around. What do we expect from both sides... he who is without the sin of looking on a woman to lust cast the first stone. God is laughing at this foolishness and He shows this world what it is like in their judging. Reply Quote Notify 4077  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: December 09, 2009, 08:43:05 AM This is the age of knowledge. Not only the explosion of  scientific knowledge but though the reintroduction of the historically Calvinistic literature we are a refined theological machine. These areas of the personal effects through the propositions that are before us will determine the looking glass through which we have that refined understanding as consistent with historical Calvinism. That is these paradigms of treating things as personal... impersonal... the refining of the proper illumination are essential in an age of knowledge. Not only are these concerns the nexus of creating this atmosphere of the personal communications of reality but it is incumbent on us to draw the proper conclusions about things as we relate to the age of scientific skepticism. Because we know that a mere collection of facts is that by which the world system mirrors religious hypocrisy! We can describe our world view in a way in which a function of a society be it spiritual or pagan in the same way with different terms. What we are dealing with here as never been in the history of mankind are these areas of common agreement.. because the earth has become a place of the progression of enlightenment in this expansion of the knowledge of the physical. This danger is from that angel of light that is able to deceive even the elect! Humanism was always spawned in the heart of man but men are accustom to follow their heads.. the accumulation of knowledge as the way of self deception in how they find these common loves. These loves of innocence as a personal god. Reply Quote Notify 4078  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: All men cleansed from sin on the Cross ... on: December 09, 2009, 07:58:17 AM Covenant theology is based upon the faithfulness of God. The word covenant was interchangeable with Gods unfailing love.. His eternal faithfulness... His saving acts towards His people... and His power manifested in worship, protection, and provision. I do not think it is correct to talk in biblical terms of a covenant simply being an agreement, as if it was just to remind the people of "when" God made the original covenant. But the covenant was that relationship in which God continuously displayed His attributes toward His people throughout the history of redemption. The fact that Israel was under the covenant of God was the fact that God was in the business of saving His people!  Thats why this comparison to earthly covenants is so miss leading. Or even speaking of the covenant as an agreement cheapens its life flow. It could be compared to Gods flow of glory from heaven that will expand over the whole earth. It is Gods effervescence illumination of all things that determines how He works as a faithful God in behalf of His people. This is Gods eternal love that extends farther then the earths galaxy. So that when we think in terms of Gods covenant we are thinking that because He is eternal... that is His power , love, faithfulness, kindness, Shepherding, and all of the personal attributes of God,, then we are illuminated to see that He cares for the most basic necessities of His children and it extends to the world through His own. This is an eternal covenant. But when we think of our own abilities on our side, even tho we are required to be faithful.. our faithfulness is determined by His faithfulness working in us. So that the covenant is not only eternal but it works in this manner of Gods grace.. His preventing grace.. His pre grace.. His grace addition equation and His grace of under girding in our most severe trials. So that the covenant is guaranteed to work in us just by our focusing on God! This covenant is not just a cheap agreement.     Reply Quote Notify 4079  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Church: Over-promise and under-deliver on: December 06, 2009, 11:48:09 AM Quote from: The G Man on December 06, 2009, 11:39:27 AM I have been on these here forums for 6+ years and have been immersed in christianity for the past 10+ years trying to better my life, and frankly, I am disappointed. I think the church completely over-promises and way under-delivers. I am starting to seriously think that the christian church is a cult and Christians are one of two or three types: philosophical people, crazy/mentally ill people, irrelevant people who gather at church cause that is the only place they fit socially. Maybe there is a fourth type of people who are just scared and grasping at straws, but I like my initial three. Don't misunderstand me, I believe in a creator, but I think the church is selling horse manure. perhaps they mean well, but when the rubber meets the road, I think they are living a life in an imaginary world. They have created a house of cards and they simply cant deliver. I think Churches that are relevant are that way because they venture out into the secular world and teach that under the umbrella of Christianity (by pastors who are the realistic/philosophical type, not the crazy/mentally ill type) Anyway, in 2010, I have decided that I am going to start off the new decade by shedding a few things, and one of them is Christianity. I think there are better things, more relevant things in the secular world/secular society that will make my life better so that I am happier and have a higher quality of life. Life is too short to waste it chasing smoke and mirrors and spending years and years in some sort of fantasy that nobody can agree on. That is perhaps the smoking gun. So in 2010, I plan to retire from the Keylife Forums. Retire from the land of religion and Christianity and try to live a better life as a regular person. The only house of cards is what you take for certainty as if God does not exist. Go ahead and make these presuppositions. At least we acknowledge we are not in that position.  Reply Quote Notify 4080  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why did God let Eve do it? on: December 06, 2009, 10:56:53 AM Let me say something about this Psalm... because it is the definition of the world view of desire. God has made us to choose a thing because we desire that thing. That is why when we believe in freedom we believe that it is from a spiritual paradigm not a purely human intelligence to earthly wisdom!! I mean that we even as 20 century doctorate intellectuals do not look at the church paradigm as determined by a set of doctrines that are understood and passed along by a purely intellectual distribution system... God has not made us as people who speak from the robed high places of Christendom. He has made us as people who seek Him and in finding Him this reality is a balance between what we have in our beings and what we appear to be as equal with the weakest. This desire is from the Holy Spirit .. .not from a family origin... not from a series of classes... not from a counseling room. These desires are from a total renovation of the soul. They are from the point of view that our sins have been dealt with so that we have gone from the family of Satan to the family of God. We now can follow our desires to our Father in heaven who works for us to remedy all things as a matter of a personal communication to us of His love!! Because the world is passing away.. men in their natural state are like the grass of the field. They are going to what they desire. But our desires are eternal. We already have a glimpse of standing before our Father in heaven even tho we are not there yet. We long for the pure love of our Father so that it is the reality that we will know. This is Psalm 103