4201	Forums / Main Forum / Re: Do You Ever...	on: October 28, 2009, 05:41:55 PM
Actually TB.. I think the church is starving for a focus that challenges a person presumptions. I mean activity for activities sake is in my opinion more dangerously an exercise in futility than just being alone and reading the bible and praying. To me its that when we are praying we are tempted to make it short because there are better things to do.. and when we are working we are tempted to think that we got a lot done for the kingdom of God. Thats not mental masturbation thats being uncertain about what Gods purposes for us are. And then you got a lot of people doing a lot of things but there is not a lot of enjoyment. I mean i can work up a desire to go and take care of something that is urgent but when there is an opportunity for public prayer it is not really on the excited to be there list. These are the days of small things... historically speaking.
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4202  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The incredible shrinking economy on: October 28, 2009, 02:45:40 PM I think there will be an election massacre if the republicans come out with a flat tax proposal. With the message that increasing the GNP will erase our problems  ... flat tax will make US a haven for big business to come back and begin producing in this country... everyone will be back to work with the pressure to increase wages. Its a very simple take back. Remove Reply Quote Notify

4203  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free writing on: October 28, 2009, 12:11:04 PM If we are thinking about the order of powers in this world then we must understanding that the failure of one power is really a new understanding of the nature of this eternal paradigm. Because there are powers that cannot be controlled by humans. To be affected by a power is to find a certain lack of self generating. Its like moving in this world in a secret ability to read these purely speculative influences as that by which there is a world of reality that works from the inside of a vessel to work its way to that by which all of this worlds analogies to these working powers are defined in Gods secret counsel. This general ability to communicate in this physical world has that kind of lid on any connection. Whatever a connection is as to that kind of influence has its own world in our view as to how we know that level of power. How we are given the ability to see beyond the pure function of a common knowledge as to coming to an end of our knowing the genuineness of that connection is to find a power that has this altruistic effect beyond any other closeness as it is that design to work in that loss of power in that rational corruption. Remove Reply Quote Notify

4204  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 28, 2009, 11:56:00 AM Here is where there is much deception because we are talking about a mans view as he is being transformed from a corrupted world view based upon how a man thinks of his self righteousness. .that is his proclivities to find a certain satisfaction in guilt.. shame... pride.. and fear as that by which he views Gods working to transform these pre dis positional paradigms. This clouds mens discerning abilities to see clearly. And then we have a misrepresentation of this complex chemistry of this epistemological connection in our worshiping God with other men. We do not start by being effected as we are made to be completely sanctified but the start of all of these matters is in this warped community in which men fail to have their minds transformed and then we have all of these examples that only have a temporary kind of attitudinal connection. Now then this complex mixture of these powers .. .that is the mind of man.. or that new potential to be renewed as a matter of pure grace... the power of sin as it meets the power of the law.. the kind of grace as it is narrowly working to make the only lasting change and mens dispositional qualities as they are made to be real in that climate of religion are the basis for finding relief in a false system of mans philosophies or finding the narrow path of Gods absolute rule in this world. This is not for the faint of heart!! Remove Reply Quote Notify

4205  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 28, 2009, 11:55:02 AM In the scriptures God is concerned about making a distinction between two very clear and powerful ways of walking in this world. And the nexus of how a person views the counseling is through making God his refuge. Because God does the action as a matter of finding the unity of that purpose of whatever it is. So that its not mainly in the action but its in the attitude. Now then we look at doing things wrong with a purely physical appearance. Because we are not God. God looks on the heart ... man looks on the outward appearance... if i am correct in this ... then where was that little phrase attached to in its context? It was the choosing of David as king. It wasnt that the brothers were equally able to be king... i mean ... the appearance was not one of choice ... it was one of deception to the counsel of Gods purposes being fulfilled. In a sense we could see that man was trying to subvert the glory of God in this distinction between that counsel that is represented by Saul ... which is not a wicked counsel on the outward appearance ... it was self righteous pride that God saw as dangerous as a wicked counsel! That is representative of the chaff of mans religious system which is sitting in the seat of the scoffer! The secret counsel of God as He is working His will in the affairs of man without any human sharing ability is the same thing as representing reality as that by which God orders the counsel of men to succeed or fail as men submit their views of other men to Gods law as that by which men find how narrow their world view is in Gods rite to rule as equal to God working in this practical way. That is the counsel of the righteous as opposed to the counsel of the wicked. When God is seen as who He really is then men will be what other men follow in that rite order expression of Gods epistemology of that view. Remove Reply Quote Notify

4206  Forums / Break Room / Re: Where have all the mentors gone? on: October 28, 2009, 11:52:55 AM Here is where there is much deception because we are talking about a mans view as he is being transformed from a corrupted world view based upon how a man thinks of his self righteousness. .that is his proclivities to find a certain satisfaction in guilt.. shame... pride.. and fear as that by which he views Gods working to transform these pre dis positional paradigms. This clouds mens discerning abilities to see clearly. And then we have a misrepresentation of this complex chemistry of this epistemological connection in our worshiping God with other men. We do not start by being effected as we are made to be completely sanctified but the start of all of these matters is in this warped community in which men fail to have their minds transformed and then we have all of these examples that only have a temporary kind of attitudinal connection. Now then this complex mixture of these powers .. .that is the mind of man.. or that new potential to be renewed as a matter of pure grace... the power of sin as it meets the power of the law.. the kind of grace as it is narrowly working to make the only lasting change and mens dispositional qualities as they are made to be real in that climate of religion are the basis for finding relief in a false system of mans philosophies or finding the narrow path of Gods absolute rule in this world. This is not for the faint of heart!! Reply Quote Notify

4207  Forums / Break Room / Re: Where have all the mentors gone? on: October 28, 2009, 11:36:24 AM In the scriptures God is concerned about making a distinction between two very clear and powerful ways of walking in this world. And the nexus of how a person views the counseling is through making God his refuge. Because God does the action as a matter of finding the unity of that purpose of whatever it is. So that its not mainly in the action but its in the attitude. Now then we look at doing things wrong with a purely physical appearance. Because we are not God. God looks on the heart ... man looks on the outward appearance... if i am correct in this ... then where was that little phrase attached to in its context? It was the choosing of David as king. It wasnt that the brothers were equally able to be king... i mean ... the appearance was not one of choice ... it was one of deception to the counsel of Gods purposes being fulfilled. In a sense we could see that man was trying to subvert the glory of God in this distinction between that counsel that is represented by Saul ... which is not a wicked counsel on the outward appearance ... it was self righteous pride that God saw as dangerous as a wicked counsel! That is representative of the chaff of mans religious system which is sitting in the seat of the scoffer! The secret counsel of God as He is working His will in the affairs of man without any human sharing ability is the same thing as representing reality as that by which God orders the counsel of men to succeed or fail as men submit their views of other men to Gods law as that by which men find how narrow their world view is in Gods rite to rule as equal to God working in this practical way. That is the counsel of the righteous as opposed to the counsel of the wicked. When God is seen as who He really is then men will be what other men follow in that rite order expression of Gods epistemology of that view.  Reply Quote Notify

4208  Forums / Break Room / Re: Where have all the mentors gone? on: October 28, 2009, 10:12:13 AM The idea of mentoring can both warm my heart or it can send chills down my spine. I really believe that any serious change in this life will not be accomplished by "holding someone accountable" but by focusing the efforts to teach someone the truths of the scripture as the only way to bring lasting change. Because in the end change is not done by focusing on doing...it is down by focusing on transforming. I dont agree with the approach that the gospel in scripture is presented from both sides as presenting the doctrine of sanctification as two equal lines... on the one hand its all about doctrine and on the other hand its all about teaching morals. This is why mentoring is confessional in its basic structure. And practical theology is only advice. Advice is given in the spirit that there are many ways to go about doing something as a matter of being a help to someone. Its not about a set pattern of behaviors... i mean void of the use of the means of grace. That in my opinion is an abusive authoritative structure. Some people ... especially the young who havent grown up in a home were there was structure .. or it could be just living in this society where there is so much pressure put on the bottom half by this American imperialism where those who are older as myself or those who are wealthy have used the system that basically is a system of redistribution ie punishes those who are dependent on the two evil friends business and government together, and have been squeezed to see that it is more difficult to live without all of these added pressures of growing up in a one parent home or having to be in a position of depending on the government for their teaching. This is why we have people who want to be mentored in this oppressive fashion.This kind of mentoring structure promises to alleviate the pressure by doing those things that causes the mentored the problems in the first place..Its just changing that dependence instead of making them aware by teaching them to argue for their position. At this point i wouldnt mind if they chose the wrong side... but chose one side or the other .   Reply Quote Notify

4209  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The incredible shrinking economy on: October 27, 2009, 07:07:40 PM PRAVDA America Moving from Kingdom of Cash to Socialism Slowly but Surely Obama’s decision not to build the Missile Defense System in Poland and the Czech Republic and his Noble Prize have not yet been comprehended from a philosophical viewpoint. It’s time to do it.    Power of Money against Power of Spirit The last turning point similar to the current one happened approximately 400 years ago. The Western European society discovered a new hierarchy of values. Feudalism that valued service and chivalry was replaced with capitalism. Wealth became the measure of success, and everyone was to care about his own pocket only. The cult of money replaced all other values, including religious. Capitalism turned everything upside down and made people more excited about stuffing their bank accounts than anything else. This system turned out to be extremely efficient in terms of production of goods, services, and comfort. America benefited from the system the most, and decided that the rest of the world has to adopt it as well. If some underdeveloped countries are unable to appreciate the benefits of capitalism, they should be forced to do it. Collapse of the Illusion Meanwhile, philosophers says that capitalism is driven not by hard cash, but rather, striving for hard cash. It’s driven not by the production of goods, but rather, striving for consumption of these goods. If everyone had these values, the “dog-eat-dog” principal would be the major principal in the world history. But America failed to do it. There are plenty of “underdeveloped” people in the world who continue to cherish spiritual values. There are not that many chances left to force them into worshiping money since these “underdeveloped” people adopt western technology and become stronger. The appeal to adopt American values doesn’t work either. Why would we adopt the system if the system is in crisis? Pragmatic America realized that billions of people are not willing to live in the kingdom of hard cash and decided that it would be better off leaving this kingdom itself. Now the USA is talking about introducing elements of socialism. What does Obama’s decision not to build the Eastern European Missile Defense System have to do with all of this? Well, it means that it’s not capitalism that’s undergoing the crisis, but the belief in its high efficiency. And this, in turn, means that America, the bulwark of capitalism, is no longer the boss of the world. And if it’s not the boss any more, it has to be friends with everybody, including Russia. And it’s America’s turn to offer Russia to push the reset button. Or maybe it’s just tired of imposing its rules on others and felt that friendship is more valuable than money and power? If this is the case, we will soon witness another turning point in the world history. Remove Reply Quote Notify

4210  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Good Teacher.... on: October 27, 2009, 06:40:56 PM I have heard him a number of times on the tube.. hes a charismatic. And definitely an armininist. Not a heretic .. unless he strays from the gospel... is all you got to do to be saved is a simple trust in Christ. But eventually it will fall in line with the important doctrines of the faith... justification = salvation... although a person may be saved and not fully understand the details.. and a person may be saved and believe a lot of false teaching. Only God knows who are His. But then we can make judgments but we also can trust a person who proclaims his own salvation. And then you can discern through a relationship. I have friends who disagree with calvin on some of the basics but it will be that level of friendship.  But then i have met people who say they agree with Calvin but then they have a hard time convincing me. But in the church the relationship is dependent on the vows one takes just like a marriage. The church is our mother ... family vows... Reply Quote Notify

4211  Forums / Theology Forum / Free writing on: October 27, 2009, 10:49:31 AM This thread comes with a warning. I am a meta physical thinker. As well as having these times ... I am just writing in being under the influence of a drunken spiritual paradigm. I hope to write about things you have never considered. The realities of an idea as they form a view outside of the normal understanding of a time continuum is an experience of an event as if it were present. There are three dimensions of reality. The first dimension is that reality that we understand about ourselves in this present physical experience as having a place as we go from one place to another in the physical universe. The second dimension is the spiritual experience of receiving communications from the divine illumination of a truth and having a communication of the properties of that spiritual reality. The third dimension is having an experience in which a past or a future event is transfixed in the experience of a present certainty of a present event. These are depths of how we experience the intuitive function of what we cannot determine to know as being outside of the tension of the weight of that present circumstance.    Reply Quote Notify

4212

Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom Of The Will Jonathan Edwards 4215  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Can A Strong Emotional Person on: October 25, 2009, 08:18:32 PM Quote from: Worc on October 25, 2009, 05:05:11 PM I had to redo? Why I prefer openess for me-I have many skeleton's Probaly more thenare decorations on my street- So I stay open-- A It keeps me accountable-To Certain friends and Wife--And Open help me remember I aint all that---I found its a pothole to enjoy life to its fullest--Wether your ill in crazy constant pain--Or well and life's well--When you live open-You attract likewise persons-Its EZ'er to be a light and salt you never look the way of the hypocrate--You learn who you are--Not who you pretend to be--  To Sum It Up-You are free-Free to be a better friend -spouse-child-Grand Spouse-And Child of the Most High Thanks for the great 100%  answers from the heart-  How Awesome are all of you--100000% Awesome-Thanks ((((((((Pete)))))) Bro... this is one of the best threads we have had in a while.... i think most of us walk around in a christian straight jacket because we get tooo religious. I dont think that we can grow unless we are loved and we cant feel loved unless we can express that pain in some kind of emotion that comes up from our souls. Thats why we are encouraged to find the natural emotion as that expression in terms of shedding tears. God encourages us to weep because He says that He stores our tears in heaven. A metaphor about casting our burdens... not just the physical problem... but the emotional reality of our hearts... there is no sense in hiding that from Him..He knows our most blind troubles and i think that is the main reason that we are encouraged to pray when we are in trouble. The more we learn to pour our hearts out to Him... learning to be as honest as we can to Him ... then the more we are going to hit that sore spot in our souls.  This I think is why He tells us that He stores our tears... because i think the Holy Spirit actually gives us the balance of which i think that we tend to be overly focused on the purely doctrinal accuracy and we do not naturally think about the inner healing of the Holy Spirits witness that we have access to as a physiological relief. But since we tend to hold onto these hurts as a matter of not knowing how to get relief from the inward experience  then we teach ourselves to hold onto the pain. But Christ says that His burden is lite and His yoke is easy. Its not something that we tell ourselves... its something that He promises to relieve us in our union with Him... He fellowships with us by taking our emotion and physiological burdens. Now then even tho we may not find that the situation changes we can still be encouraged by feeling like we have gone to Him and wept before Him so that we feel lite.  This is casting our burdens on Him. If we believe in grace then we believe that He wants to give us free peace... so that we do not need to earn it by our obedience... but we have it promised to us in His conquering the fear of death.. or that process that burdens us beyond our ability to cope... i am speaking here of the emotional and physiological effects of the gospel.  One of the t hings that i have found in memorizing the Psalms is this medicinal spiritual massaging aspect of the promise of the Holy Spirit. I find that if i am crying out to Him then at some point i am encouraged to feel the pressure as His peace becomes more real in the praying. I mean that there is a sense of lightheartedness and then thats when the evil pain or pressure is revealed to me.. .then i may be brought to tears as if i had the feeling of a dependent child. And in a sense we are encouraged to not have the worry as if we were a child ... you know that innocence of being able to focus in a purely uncomplicated innocent world. We have so much to uncover but it is going to give us more potential to blossom as we were ment to be.      4216  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: This Kind.... on: October 23, 2009, 11:32:09 AM It is so easy in a purely secularist society to move away from the simplicity of the gospel for reasons that are confusing the reality of how we were made to live in this world as a world that we define in how things are purposed to exist.  Whether it is spending our time in pursuits that are neutral in that weight upon our souls as to the nature of how we are affected by them, or the influence upon our minds as to how we view the reality of our existence in this world, we live with a very predominate level of being deceived and having the potential of drifting so far from true influences that keep us under the power of enjoying a security that transcends the power of all of these different paradigms of thought processes that are defined as short of having real effects of a supernatural influence. In this sense secularism lurks in the dark recesses of our minds in the subtle level of hardness that we endure with to thrust upon us this moral ism of self effort that we chase from one conviction of sin to another. We begin to fight against imaginary powers that have no connection to these spiritual paradigms. We have a love to define our identity based upon our own experience in this subtle sorrow in the weight of secularism as that by which we keep a balance between living in this world with its troubles and finding that the voice of letting go for the sake of Christ will dull the pain. Brothers..  we do not fight against flesh and blood. We cannot define what is the standard by which we search out the problem with the sins of commission as those influences that determine our existence in light of being connected to the spiritual nature of all that exist in light of the level of the causes of the powers that exist in us from our new birth to be answered in this quest to uncover some hidden trait that comes about from this commission of sin! The struggle is not a natural struggle but a supernatural one. Sin does not originate in an action but it is that power that we live in both in terms of the course of this world and the experience of its power in terms of the effects upon us to not experience all of these influences in a true spiritual world were the battle is for us to prosper in these high views of God! We begin in our battle with the spiritual forces in the heaven-lies by defining the reality of evil as a spiritual one as to all of the cause of the pain and sorrow that we experience in uncovering the true effects of the power of God in our real universe of understanding who God is by what He has said.  God meets us as sinners!! We must begin our struggle with finding relief as the world really is.      Remove Reply Quote Notify 4217  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Satan's role: Old Test. vs New Test. on: October 23, 2009, 11:24:30 AM oops wrong thread Reply Quote Notify 4218  Forums / Main Forum / Re: parable of tallents on: October 23, 2009, 10:39:14 AM Its interesting that this exchange with the crowds who were present with Jesus... and His own disciples had come to the point where Jesus was going to go away ...He was going to go to the cross so that at some point before in this process they were going to face a major cross roads. Because Christ would no longer be available to them in this relationship of following Him around to witness all the healing and the teaching that was more than any man could compare to on this earth. In a sense Christ was preparing His real disciples for what was coming in them having to face that He was going to die. Then He would ascend to the Father and they would be given a power and a confidence that was so personally affecting that it would transcend there relationship to Christ while He they were following Him around.  So that the parable of the talents included this mystery .. .that is their lack of understanding as to the nature of their own ability to use the gifts and the talents that Christ given them ... but at this point that reality only sunk them deeper into the dread of having to explain how these talents would be used with the level of confidence that they themselves experienced in Christ earthly sojourn and this infusion of power to come with Christ baptizing them with the Holy Spirit.  This is the way of faith.  We are always confronted with our own weakness when we begin to compare ourselves with the demands upon us in being the means by which God works in this world. On the one hand this is how we look at our relationship to Christ as being an experience of grace in which we predominately find Him to be easy as to all of these burdens ... our weaknesses... our sins.. our tendencies to being dull and lethargic in our attitudes toward these things. And then we come to a realization that all of this is too big for us. That weight of the law works to drive us to Christ... not necessarily by moving us to come to Him but helping us see the enormous and impossible road we are on if we were under the laws condemning power!! So that the real power is in finding that we have no where else to go when we are brought to a season of having this sort of scourge upon us that is we experience an inner struggle that points us to feel how much we fail in all of this. When we are brought low we are not like the world where we would turn and leave for good. I mean we do not turn as to  accuse Christ of al of the troubles and then reject Him before men. We may act like we have been damaged beyond repair and we may for a season go our own way and talk as if we have left that way but He will bring us through that deep trial and give us a new hope in the coming of His Spirit. This is why the way of grace has that healing effect upon our sorrowful spirit. We feel the condemning power of the law but we do not answer it by our own power to face ourselves. Its not that we let go but its that we in our lowness find in Christ the secret power  that begins to blossom in us that will eventual works its effect in us to be that by which we cannot live without.  I mean we may spend many yrs being in the dread of this worlds sorrow ...feeling the deterministic influences of the pain of slander and rejection, but we will have this very small window of grace to continue on ... that faith that causes us to feel our own sins and yet to cast ourselves on Christ to uphold what little we experience of His spiritual illuminations. But He will bring us through and His answer may not seem logical to even those who would be the most spiritual in our world... but Christ will work to bring us through in His way if we keep casting ourselves on Him in finding that He is below our most lowest times. For where else can we go?  Reply Quote Notify 4219  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: This Kind.... on: October 21, 2009, 01:33:25 PM We have working principles in this world. All of these philosophies have a natural outworking in them. So we say that the cause of any kind of working is in the nature of the cause of that working. Now super naturalism stands by itself because it defines the reality of the cause of all things in the nature of the ends for which they find relief as a matter the influences that we are taught in our responding to what we sense and hear as the truth. So that when we define reality as being under its causal influence as that working principle we are acknowledging that life has in its most simplistic forms the representation of that nature as the reason for its finding that reality. That is this pure flow of divine communication to a completely dependent soul. It is the same principle with electricity. We cannot see how it flows but it has a positive and negative to make that completed circle to have its power. How we define its free flow is how we experience that power of its flow. Whether we are shocked by its power yet there would be no electrical shock if we did not understand the free flow of its reality. Because we would basically be primitive again. God must not only be that by which we work our our own salvation but He must be the beginning and the ending of that work. In all of these different illusions to what the truth is as that by which the holistic experience of the soul knows how to experience this power we must find this freedom in its receptive understanding of that power that flows both beyond the souls knowledge ...that is the extent of the dependence is how we view the force upon the soul in finding that real dependence and as a matter of finding this reality as that power flows through the soul. Here this is how we are physiologically depending upon the reality of all that love is both unseen in the working principle of the soul and the holistic connection to the reality of what is unfeigned and what is superficial. When we talk about this kind of dependence where God works all things for our good.. that is not that we work and God works but we depend upon God for our work then we are changing the order of all that is connected in this universe from a sense of that principle of a purely mechanical function of reality to a real sense of what these powers are as they proceed through the vessel as we see in electricity. Electricity flows in that nature of its environment and not in the order of these elements it flows through. In a sense God is directly producing its power.  That is why we have such a problem with finding this holistic healing in the proper environment. Because we are always defining something that is simple .. that sense of beyond simplicity to a false philosophical trap that has not reduplication of an attractive desire in its working.God works in the nature of flowing through the soul to work the bad for the good in the connection of all things to this holistic physiological need in the soul. We need to understand that the reality of all things is seen in Gods personage as the cause of the power that all things are working in. In a sense this new determinism of shared responsibility is the same philosophy we see in Ecclesiastes. It is because there is so much of the secret providence of God that we do not understand in how these working powers influence the reality of all that we find in connecting these things in this universe to finding the fellowship in the principle of this free flow of power as being personal but we are taught by our short experiences with the connection to things in this universe that have a dead working principle in their attraction. Lets face it there is only one God but there are a multitude of false gods who are teachers of shared effort! Now then in a real sense this world is an alien intruder who has taught us to find comfort in these different underlying psychosis. And then we work in that power to infect every other connection to the things in this universe as to the principle of the kind of  love that  flows as a placebo of the flow of Gods nature. This is that resistance that we must fight in this alone ness. Remove Reply Quote Notify 4220  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Praying in the Spirit on: October 21, 2009, 12:05:35 PM There are many kinds of prayer. The prayer of petition.. the prayer of adoration... the prayer of confession and acknowledging Gods forgiveness... the prayer  being distraught with much sorrow...the prayer of silence in receiving illumination, the eternal kingdom prayer that is the prayer that is the experience of being above this worlds troubles...the prayer of singing and worshiping... All of these different forms of prayer are for the purpose of Gods sheep to come before Him and unburden their souls so that they can receive the promise of the Spirit to come and fellowship with them as the ultimate act of worship. This is praying in the Spirit. God coming down to fill our hearts with the attitudes of the fruit of the Holy Spirit. There must be an action upon us in order for us to have something to give away. We are empty vessels that are being filled to overflow in the desires of God... to feel the pleasure of God and to long to find God who desires to be glorified in fellowship with us. We are broken vessels waiting to be made rite again when we experience this sweet Spirit. Christ was empowered by the Holy Spirit at His baptism when the Holy Spirit came down out of heaven as a dove and came down upon Christ. This is how the Holy Spirit moves to empower us from on high. He came upon the first church with the power and He descended upon them with fire from on high. God comes in unapproachable light and He shines so bright that He blinds the eyes of all that are exposed to this brightness. God rules from His throne illuminating His glory throughout the earth. If we were exposed to the brightness of His glory then we would be dissipated like a drop of water in a mili second. This is why we receive this divine unction of Gods glory in the Holy Spirit. We litterally have our eyes opened to see the purpose of God in this world as He brings us into the reality of having this experience of the power and illumination of the Holy Spirit in showing to us this glory of Christ... the realigning of our hearts to rest in the absolute sovereign arms of our great Shepherd!  Our hearts are taught that God blinds the eyes of men who are mocking us. Gods power is very clear in the actions He takes upon men to harden their hearts lest they think that their own glory has any kind of radiance that has this working power.  There is only one God who enlightens the whole world! We are surrounded by the glory of Gods effervescence. When the Holy Spirit illumines our minds and fills us with His grace and promise then we begin to be exposed to the light of the glory of God. If we could know the sense of coming before God who dwells in otherness then we will be raised above this worlds trouble and sorrow as an experience of receiving this divine light of glory as it shines in our face. This is seeking the face of God! We are finding that in Gods presence is absolute power to bring all things under His control. Here in this kind of experience we are learning the power of God as He is in His radiance ... we are drawing near to God to see the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we are experiencing the power of Christ who has put all things under His feet and we view this working in the illumination that even those men bow down under that power! Because Gods light shines brighter through our being exposed to that light! It is that this world would be in complete darkness without any hope if God were to withdraw His glory in this experiencing of His decreeing work. When we come to Him in prayer and worship then the Spirit descends upon our hearts and the light begins to shine even brighter and we are illuminated in this power to be weakened in its bright beams that fill us with awe in seeing that Gods glory is His secret providence that has a power that we find in drawing near to Christ our great Shepherd and feeling the power over all things. We are learning to pray with a great sense of awe and wonder at looking at Gods absolute power to work things for our good!!  Remove Reply Quote Notify 4221  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: October 20, 2009, 06:55:17 PM Works But why cannot our good works be the whole or part of our righteousness before God? Because the righteousness which can stand before the judgment-seat of God, must be perfect throughout and wholly conformable to the divine law; but even our best works in this life are all imperfect and defiled with sin. Heidelberg Catechism Q. 62. Salvation is by works. What???! It's true! Our salvation is by the works of Christ! Salvation is truly by the works of Christ on our behalf in his life, death, resurrection and ascension. Our Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law on our behalf and merited eternal life by fulfilling the Law. Those who believe in him shall never perish, but have everlasting life!! Romans 10:4 says "For Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." The Greek word 'telos' suggests the goal or purpose of the Law. Graeme Goldsworthy Our deeds are not the basis of our salvation, they are the evidence of our salvation. They are not foundation, they are demonstration". John Piper (Future Grace, p. 364) Remove Reply Quote Notify 4222  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Religion vs Denomination vs Christ on: October 20, 2009, 06:39:34 PM Denominations are not as distinct in their doctrinal differences as they used to be. Without denominations there is no way to measure what the information that is being stated when the people gather together. The message should be as being correct as when you learn an occupation. I mean the message is as exact as an artist that creates a picture that is not out of proportion to what he is trying to show. Its a piece of art not a bunch of splotches that appear on the canvas from throwing the paint... if the message is precise then there is going to be a real understanding of just how beautiful the vision is of Christ. I heard a sermon in my church this past Sunday ... as i sat back and recollect on on his points it was nothing short of a Rembrandt. How do we know that ? Because we have denominations that have statements of faith... a confession of faith... and we have the creeds. If everyone came to church with a different interpretation of the scripture as a whole then it would be like trying to work in a day care center just trying to control every ones behavior. But those who are mature have trained themselves by constantly using the scripture to discern between good and evil. That is a doctrinal position.   Reply Quote Notify 4223  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: All men cleansed from sin on the Cross ... on: October 20, 2009, 06:23:35 PM Quote from: beacon2 on October 20, 2009, 05:56:20 PM Quote from: Retrobyter on October 19, 2009, 09:46:25 PM I still agree that in Adam all died because we were all in his loins; however, once again, there was no covenant made with Adam, and there was no cleansing done on the cross. Those two points are FABRICATED! There’s no covenant with Adam because God never made a covenant with Adam! PERIOD! And, there was no cleansing done on the cross (birth by water) The scriptures say otherwise. A cleansing indeed happened on the Cross through the blood of Christ. Rom 5:8-10 8   But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9   Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10   For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! (NIV) Acts 10:15 15   The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (NIV) Acts 10:28 28   He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. (NIV) b2 B2 can you show me a translator and grammar commentary who actually translates this "impure and unclean" outside the context of the ceremonial law as distinguishing the Nations from Israel? Reply Quote Notify 4224  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: All men cleansed from sin on the Cross ... on: October 20, 2009, 05:22:20 PM B2  Quote 5.   It necessitated the coming of the Son of God to step in on man‘s behalf  and bring to a close this first critical and far-reaching interaction between God and man. Romans 3:9 [ No One is Righteous  ] What shall we conclude then? Are we any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.  B2 If i am not mistaken this verb "are under" is a present tense verb and it is  after the cross in terms of the time line of history. Galatians 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. Here is the apostle speaking to the Galatian believers and he is describing their pre salvation position as being enslaved to the sin nature or their own lust. He speaks of this post cross experience as going from the slavery to sin in the past but post cross to a new position of being in Christ. Reply Quote Notify 4225  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: All men cleansed from sin on the Cross ... on: October 20, 2009, 05:01:37 PM Roy: Quote Only half of the transaction was done at the cross—“For He (God the Father) hath made Him (Yeshua` the Messiah) to be sin for us, who knew no sin….” Hebrews 10:14 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Hebrews 9:12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. Roy if you check the tense of those verbs you will find that they speak of a completed act that was accomplished at the cross. Unless of course perfected and obtained do not run parallel with the cross in this grammar construction but we insert mans believing. That would not support a literal translation. In that case the cross is really a metaphor for mans believing.  Of course with God all events are present. Reply Quote Notify 4226  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: October 19, 2009, 01:04:23 PM i agree that God wants to love us with an everlasting love that brings great rejoicing and comfort through the Holy Spirit throughout our lives. I do not think there is any kind of relationship to the things we possess or the earthly relationships that compare with what can come from the deepest recesses of our souls as being the only real satisfaction that we are always returning to as we are drawn away in wonder and praise both in our private worship and our public worship.  I think that as believers we must learn this way of peace , comfort and joy in the Holy Ghost. But once we have learned this way then we will be very aware when we have a taste of something that is not like this experience. And in this way we who have been revived beyond the normal means of finding this comfort through the Spirit ... know that the worship experience is all consuming... it consumes the dross more than even the teaching of these things. We have been freed to get alone with Him and just fellowship with Him beyond finding that it is a chore or it is a something that does not bring us to new heights in our praise of Him. And then when we have climbed these heights of adoration and wonder then we can have a pleasure as we feel the over flow of His grace and love as He pours it out over our thirsty souls. With God... when we find God... He gives us an unquenchable thirst for Him ... that is a longing to enjoy Him .. that is met by some of the deepest pleasure that we could possibly endure through. Now then when we have learned to find such a height of pleasure in Him then we will find that this pleasure comes upon us and up from the depths in waves of joy and wonder. God teaches us that it is better to spend a day with Him than a thousand else where. It is more pleasurable to be a door keeper in the house of God than to dwell in the luxury of the wicked. Because God has made us for Himself and He has come to us in such a simple but most profound way... He has given us a table set before us with the finest spiritual food and we can feast at His table as if we were proceeding to heaven with a multitude of worshipers who are playing their instruments of praise and worship and are in unison giving God the glory that He deserves. Yes this is truly a life of rejoicing in Him!! Reply Quote Notify 4227  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: LIVING LOVED - PRINCIPLE vs. RELATIONSHIP on: October 19, 2009, 12:59:48 PM Gene .. .i agree that God wants to love us with an everlasting love that brings great rejoicing and comfort through the Holy Spirit throughout our lives. I do not think there is any kind of relationship to the things we possess or the earthly relationships that compare with what can come from the deepest recesses of our souls as being the only real satisfaction that we are always returning to as we are drawn away in wonder and praise both in our private worship and our public worship.  I think that as believers we must learn this way of peace , comfort and joy in the Holy Ghost. But once we have learned this way then we will be very aware when we have a taste something that is not like this experience. And in this way we who have been revived beyond the normal means of finding this comfort through the Spirit ... know that the worship experience is all consuming... it consumes the dross more than even the teaching of these things. We have been freed to get alone with Him and just fellowship with Him beyond finding that it is a chore or it is a something that does not bring us to new heights in our praise of Him. And then when we have climbed these heights of adoration and wonder then we can have a pleasure as we feel the over flow of His grace and love as He pours it out over our thirsty souls. With God... when we find God... He gives us an unquenchable thirst for Him ... that is a longing to enjoy Him .. that is met by some of the deepest pleasure that we could possibly endure through. Now then when we have learned to find such a height of pleasure in Him then we will find that this pleasure comes upon us and up from the depths in waves of joy and wonder. God teaches us that it is better to spend a day with Him than a thousand else where. It is more pleasurable to be a door keeper in the house of God than to dwell in the luxury of the wicked. Because God has made us for Himself and He has come to us in such a simple but most profound way... He has given us a table set before us with the finest spiritual food and we can feast at His table as if we were proceeding to heaven with a multitude of worshipers who are playing their instruments of praise and worship and are in unison giving God the glory that He deserves. Yes this is truly a life of rejoicing in Him!! Reply Quote Notify 4228  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Paul Washer/Steve Brown on: October 16, 2009, 04:54:00 PM Quote from: toadbat on October 16, 2009, 01:14:09 PM They may both be preaching the same gospel in the sense that they both adhere to the essentials of the gospel, however, from what I have been able to adduce, Paul Washer has a major bee in his bonnet when it comes to the issue of "decisional salvation." He bases this on his own life history when earlier in his life, he made a profession of faith, believed he was saved, and yet remained fundamentally unchanged. He appearently uses this as the model for anyone anytime, anywhere who, after "coming to the Lord" are still struggling with sinful desires or a desire to want to follow the Lord. Witness in one video (available on YouTube) where he recounts how a girl came to him very distraught about how she cried out to the Lord for salvation six times, and yet it did not seem to take. His advice? He told her that she had the choice of either spending eternity in hell, or else continue crying out to the Lord until she was finally saved. The story ends with him praying about her and then she all-of-a-sudden plops down next to him all bubbly and smiles and tells him she finally (after much crying out) had the Lord tell her "Your mine!." My take? She was saved all along and the Lord finally had to show her in no uncertain terms that she was. Why do I say this? Quite simple; how does someone, whom scripture says is completely hostile to the word of God, is walking in the flesh, has absolutely no affinity for the things of God and loves darkness cry out to God one time for salvation let alone six?! Washer who is so hostlie to "decisional salvation" is so bound-up by his own personal experiences that he has completely lost touch with the reality of scripture and what it says. The council he now gives is as far away from the salvation message of grace as the most staunchest Arminian. I do not know if Washer was genuinely saved the first time he "came to the Lord." I do know that both scripture and common sense tells me that the natural man has absolutely no interest or love for the things of God. If a person's salvation failed to take the first time, it is highly unlikely that they would be back a second time (let alone six!) to "give it another go." I do know that apart from the bare essentials, he is just about at odds with everything Steve Brown says and teaches. TB as always ... a pleasure to read... bulls eye buddy. Reply Quote Notify 4229  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Paul Washer/Steve Brown on: October 16, 2009, 03:44:42 PM Quote from: The Changeling on October 16, 2009, 03:30:35 PM I have John MacArthur's series on breaking sin's grip, he states the only way to be truly free of sin is to die, yet we can and must be liberated from it's tyranny here and now, I concur. We already died to sin... but its not good either to have the spirit that is ... if it was for Gods glory then i would gladly go to hell... it could be an over focus on one thing is what that is....God is holistic... so God has given us grace to deal slowly with some of the more difficult sins.. and he has given us medicine and community. There is no self dieing out of balance i dont think . God is responsible to change us... more than we are. Calvinism gives you a balance view of all that God has given us and where to draw the line.... its called taking the principles from ot law... but Cal doctrine doesnt cure all the problems. Reply Quote Notify 4230  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Paul Washer/Steve Brown on: October 16, 2009, 03:19:16 PM Quote from: The Changeling on October 16, 2009, 03:13:10 PM I've tried everything, every program, course, counseling, livein/live out program, hospitalazation....perhaps there's one program out there that God has chosen that still eludes me!  I really thought that once I joined the RCC I would have arrived, after all it is the "true church" that Christ founded, surely God would love and accept me now! In the past I just gave up and gave myself over to my sin/addiction/slavery, you choose the terminology. I don't want to do that this time, I have years of regret and heartache from those choices, not to mention all the damage I've caused in the lives of those who tried to get close to me....."Celebrate Recovery?" Can't be worse than celebrating despair! If you want my thinking about what i have done is just Prayer the word and the sacraments ....as a Calvinist.... but the meditation or the amount of meditation on the word is what helps with the sin and pain... both the overcoming to a certain extent and eventually instant relief of pain. One hour of meditation at this time in my life and i am literally experiencing heaven in a euphoric sense..