4231	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Paul Washer/Steve Brown	on: October 16, 2009, 03:02:21 PM
Maybe i can help get the focus off of our own experience in how we were taught to think in our former lives. When Christ redeemed us He did it for purposes that are much greater than we would be able to reason when we put the positive things we did and how good we felt and we measure our christian lives by our new efforts and failures. But thats not really the way we are going to be transformed. Its so easy to focus on ourselves in how we deal with sin because we did not do any work to become righteous... we do not naturally think the opposite of receiving wages for our good and bad. But since we have come into this new life by grace then the only beginning that we know that will help us in our struggle with sin is focusing on what He has done for us! The simplicity of finding that we cannot take credit for our ability to do good and we love to take the credit... is the same temptation when we do evil. But our rejoicing begins when having sinned we rejoice in His work alone!! Now this is so easy for a believer because we display a really bad lack of confidence in ourselves because we are made new. But this lack of confidence is a blessing in disguise. Because there is indirect secret that we must learn... the apostle said that he had learned the secret of being able to go through the trials and temptations of this life or the times when he was being blessed beyond measure... he learned the secret of finding his satisfactions in Christ. This was that the reason that we fail is not because we do not have the position of being above having to prove that we must be saved again... but its because we would have a pleasure in our own ability to overcome the sin... that is the bigger problem... so there is no escape from this narrow way that is pressing in on us but to be force to leave our sorrow and rejoice in His forgiveness ... thats the secret. If we discuss with someone this begging behavior then its the same thing as rejoicing but leaving the pride and sorrow behind. Its the nature of it.
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4232  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: This Kind.... on: October 16, 2009, 11:39:14 AM One of the ways that we are taught by the systematic reduction of having a proper view of Gods authoritative decrees is through a greater amount of trouble that Satan brings in this new moral structure. God has defined His ways through the love of oneself in His view of God as treating others like he would want to be treated. Every man wants full redemption from his sins and full ability to find that he is free to fail. This is the principle that God is fully able to do as He pleases as bringing His goodness to a society through the reality of real order and blessing in the weakness of man with man and not in the moral order that man would find oppressive. Now then here is the clash of two different world views! And in this struggle God intervenes in the affairs of man and works for the good of His own while storing up judgment for the rest of mankind. If men are finding that the system of this moral universe is casting scorn on the reality of Gods rule in this universe through the principle of love then they are viewing the world of Gods absolute rule as the only relief in this world turned upside down. This is why the Psalmist says I believe therefore i am greatly oppressed and in my oppression i said all men are liars! In other words mans moral system is an expression of oppression. Because men fail to bow the knee to God then their idea of authority is anti social. Because a society that is flourishing is one that is receiving the blessing of God as the artistic brush of Gods rule!! God forms the unity of a community in the reality of men finding their relief in this principle of Gods order in blessing man as he treats another man as he would want to be treated and not as finding relief in some other anti social method. Here then is where all men go astray not only in this reducing every event to a non cause universe but in teaching that man is obligated to give and receive as the world defines the moral equation. In light of this warped view of a world turned upside down , people are taught by how they experience this warped reality as to how they understand true human freedom!! This world as a reality is itself a world gone mad!! We could think of it as a departure from Gods rules in order for men to establish an authority of their own!!Now then our experience as Gods sheep is that reality that we are confronting in which we are faced with the teaching that authority... its structure that has a causeless foundation is in fact more acceptable to the idea of the definition of what structure looks like as it is worked into the fabric of this society so that what we know as only an imagination of the real authority of this universe we are confronted in a society that scorns real reality.  Now then in this fabric of a society of men who have no authority over others as defined in this current cultural climate as that God given authority that brings real freedom and blessing we find a very big struggle as we confront the nominal oppressive spirit of a world gone mad!! Remove Reply Quote Notify

4233  Forums / Main Forum / Re: What Bible version do you like? on: October 14, 2009, 05:06:54 PM Ive got all kinds of bibles here at the house... one of my favorite is the companion study bible... its got a lot of bible outline and word studies.. and figure of speech referencing. Its the old kjv... i memorize from the NIV and then i have the nas.. and the greek translation. Reply Quote Notify

4234  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: October 14, 2009, 01:44:50 PM Trying to keep this in the most positive way i can without talking myself into a way to think that i am better than the other people is something that is mysterious... in the sense that its too big for us to accomplish. I mean the moment we are trying to create how much our desires should be subdued or inflamed is the moment we are in danger of having the potential to dwell in a sorrow that comes from a secret pride. A lot of times we should just be slow to judge by thinking about how diffucult it is to have a proper view of the reasons we forbid ourselves of something and just find the pleasure in that thing and the forgiveness in the excess. I dont think this will lead us to the more willful sins. If God is able to keep us from sin then that is working principle to help us to relax... I mean... in the new self we are brought to a place of Him giving us a new hope... and putting a new song in our heart... that is we have a new step in our walk.. and we are looking at something far greater of the new reality that we could produce in ourselves. This is Gods gifts to us from our position in Adam in that filth and slime. A lot of times we are only aware of where we have come from and not really finding that place where the pleasure that comes from God can come from many different sources. Although we may be led to recieve these things that in the end will lead to much sorrow if we do not keep our eyes on Christ... yet .. we are still aware that because this life is potentially better than we could ask or think in terms of the kind of gifts we recieve, we are more susceptable of finding deep sorrows on the other side. But this is the way of grace... we are not monks!!! Reply Quote Notify

4235  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Why do I do the things I should not do? on: October 14, 2009, 01:29:53 PM Quote from: ekneville on October 14, 2009, 01:12:53 PM Who can deliver us from this body of death. Why do I eat things I shoud not eat   Am I really set free from the over power of a pecan pie to make me think I can find temporary solice from the thing that do go wong in the pie as a comfort food. But the praise is to God in Chrit. Trying to keep this in the most positive way i can without talking myself into a way to think that i am better than the other people is something that is mysterious... in the sense that its too big for us to accomplish. I mean the moment we are trying to create how much our desires should be subdued or inflamed is the moment we are in danger of having the potential to dwell in a sorrow that comes from a secret pride. A lot of times we should just be slow to judge by thinking about how diffucult it is to have a proper view of the reasons we forbid ourselves of something and just find the pleasure in that thing and the forgiveness in the excess. I dont think this will lead us to the more willful sins. If God is able to keep us from sin then that is working principle to help us to relax... I mean... in the new self we are brought to a place of Him giving us a new hope... and putting a new song in our heart... that is we have a new step in our walk.. and we are looking at something far greater of the new reality that we could produce in ourselves. This is Gods gifts to us from our position in Adam in that filth and slime. A lot of times we are only aware of where we have come from and not really finding that place where the pleasure that comes from God can come from many different sources. Although we may be led to recieve these things that in the end will lead to much sorrow if we do not keep our eyes on Christ... yet .. we are still aware that because this life is potentially better than we could ask or think in terms of the kind of gifts we recieve, we are more susceptable of finding deep sorrows on the other side. But this is the way of grace... we are not monks!!! Reply Quote Notify

4236  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: This Kind.... on: October 13, 2009, 12:28:04 PM Jer 8 17 "See, I will send venomous snakes among you,        vipers that cannot be charmed,        and they will bite you,"        declares the LORD.  O my Comforter, in sorrow        my heart is faint within me. 19 Listen to the cry of my people        from a land far away:        "Is the LORD not in Zion?        Is her King no longer there?"        "Why have they provoked me to anger with their images,        with their worthless foreign idols?" 20 "The harvest is past,        the summer has ended,        and we are not saved." 21 Since my people are crushed, I am crushed;        I mourn, and horror grips me. 22 Is there no balm in Gilead?        Is there no physician there?        Why then is there no healing        for the wound of my people? We can be driven into special circumstances when a society gets to the point where men harden their hearts to such an extent that the normal is turned upside down. And here we have a divided religious community. This is actually describing the effects of sin as if the heat is turned up and people begin to search for something that they cannot find. There are forces in the universe that are too strong for even the most diligent saint.. Snakes and scorpions may be a metaphor for these personal spiritual effects on the soul. Which the emphasis would be on this special season of pain. Because love an hate exist in the heart of man... Amnon hated his sister more than he loved her. That it is possible for hate to be stronger then love as the means to harden the heart.  This is the area where "this kind " has a flavor that is not found in other normal circumstances. Jms 1 19My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.  Here you have anger dwelling in the heart of man as well as love. But there are events and practices that can make this like a thorn in ones soul. I mean all sin is an offense to an eternally holy God. So an offense is really an expression of hatred toward the things of God. But God has dealt with the problem of being at enmity with us. It is a matter of this spiritual nature of things in lite of the kinds of paradigms we have in our souls as we face these special seasons of "this kind". And here i think we need to make a special effort to search out the heart of this matter. I mean there were other generations who did not have this force upon their souls that would come in like a snake and bring this kind of pain. As i have said that we must not be deceived .. there are situations and kinds of sinners that are too strong for us. Those who live with us are the most venerable since we cannot rest like we would if it were in another place. But we are warned to guard our hearts because out of them come the issues of life. All of these kinds of problems come in a society because of the level of teaching in a spiritual sense that one is exposed to. This principle of God speaking is where we find there is so much deception. Because God has spoken not only to His prophets but He has spoken in His Son who is the radiance of Gods glory... in other words the radiance is not just the word going forth but it is that which produces a life as it rules in that power and authority over the soul of man. We are talking about a spiritual illumination of life as it is set in order so that all things are under the power of Gods renewing process until Christ comes to set up His eternal kingdom on the new earth. His kingdom is a spiritual kingdom and is ruling rite now in the hearts of man.. or we are Gods temple.  So that the word has an effect on the soul of man in the sense of one breathing new life into a dead man. Now then "this kind" of resistance is a forming of some deep seated problems that determine the amount of resistance one is going to experience in a spiritual sense. Remove Reply Quote Notify

4237  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: October 13, 2009, 09:03:42 AM [Arminians] ... say that the Augustinian tradition subordinates the love of God to the will of God ... But this is not what distinguishes the Augustinian tradition from the Arminian tradition. The distinction is between intensive and extensive love, between an intensive love that saves its loved ones, and an extensive love that loves everyone in general and saves no one in particular. Or if you really wish to cast this in terms of willpower, it's the distinction between divine willpower and human willpower. Or, to put the two together, does God will the salvation of everyone with a weak-willed, ineffectual love, or does God love his loved ones with a resolute will that gets the job done? The God of Calvin is the good shepherd, who names and numbers his sheep, who saves the lost sheep and fends off the wolf. The God of Wesley is the hireling, who knows not the flock by name and number, who lets the sheep go astray and be eaten by the wolf. Which is more loving, I ask? Steve Hays "What the Arminian wants to do is to arouse man's activity: what we want to do is to kill it once for all---to show him that he is lost and ruined, and that his activities are not now at all equal to the work of conversion; that he must look upward. They seek to make the man stand up: we seek to bring him down, and make him feel that there he lies in the hand of God, and that his business is to submit himself to God, and cry aloud, 'Lord, save, or we perish.' We hold that man is never so near grace as when he begins to feel he can do nothing at all. When he says, 'I can pray, I can believe, I can do this, and I can do the other,' marks of self-sufficiency and arrogance are on his brow." C. H. Spurgeon Remove Reply Quote Notify

4238  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Praying in the Spirit on: October 12, 2009, 07:24:19 PM God as Father is not a process encounter where we learn to say certain things and then He is happy to respond. But God is a spirit and He is personal... He has a disposition... so that He is drawing near to us in this manner of communicating to us on many different levels. God draws near to us as a Father so that He is going to provide for us His presence because where ever He is then all things are set in order and we are in need of nothing. If He were merely concerned for our needs then He would not be to us as He created all the purposes for us. We know God as Father because He communicates to us in such a way that we are taught by Him alone how close it is to be loved by someone that is unlike anyone else. He wants us to focus on how we are in need of Him so that He will be drawn to us. The reason that we focus on ourselves before Him is so that He might teach us by Him being drawn into who we are that He might come to us in the most personal way!! God is not a force... God is not a teaching... God is a spirit and He is a God who we can fellowship with in our communion with Him. The Father must communicate Himself to us in order for us to grow in our understanding of everything that transpires in our lives! We must know Him by our communion with Him in order for us to know the greatness of His purposes in this world! The only way that we will learn to understand the most glorious things in this world is to draw near to the One who is all in all... the beginning and the end of all things. In knowing our Father as He is in giving Himself to us, we will not fail in any communication .. whether it is concerning a future event in our lives or it is a longing that we want fulfilled ... to see the connection to Gods act of loving us by how these things are worked out. God communicates to us Himself so that we will be influence in a manner that is from a free flow of all that transpires in our lives. This is why it is not a waste of time to pant for God... that is to long for God above any other thing in this world... above any other relationship in this world ... because God will draw near to us and we will be made rite by it.. all things will be place rite and we will be changed into another glory... being lifted up in our spirits to new heights of wonder and praise in this flow of Gods disposition of love and certainty. This is why we do not address Him as the Father... or necessarily our Father being public... but my Father. Remove Reply Quote Notify

4239  Forums / Theology Forum / Praying in the Spirit on: October 12, 2009, 06:47:07 PM Ok.. its time to start this thread.... i am a bit baptized again. I will post here on prayer.... Reply Quote Notify

4240  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Satan's role: Old Test. vs New Test. on: October 12, 2009, 05:33:54 PM Quote from: Great2bHIS on October 12, 2009, 11:33:25 AM Gerald I think this verse in Luke speaks mounds to Satan's role-- 5 Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. TOTAL TWISTED LIE FROM SATAN--Satan doesn't have all this authority, he's twisting his position to be greater than the Lords--he even calls it all this GLORY.  We know GLORY only belongs to God the Great I AM 7 Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours.”  Satan wants to be WORSHIPED like God--that's why he was cast out of heaven with his band of demons because he thought he was equal to God.  He wanted the same GLORY as God 8 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’” Jesus pretty much said it here---and HIM (God) only YOU/Satan shall serve.  Satan serving God's purposes! G2 good to see you writing again... i find that if we communicate to one another what we have in Gods Spirit working through us in our particular gifts then we have an increase to our understanding of His communication to us in a personal way.  And we all are receiving these communications from one another. But i find that Satans resistance is through His very crafty ability to twist the truth so that we are cast into doubt and a deep sense of this circular pattern of finding sorrow as the means to try to be good and then coming back to sorrow when we fail. I think the bottom of this is a mis understanding of the work of the powers that are very complex in their particular colors in how each one of us are made.But our initial impulse as believers is to resist by testing the spirit of a teaching. Then He will change His appeal to us in a different method. Usually in my experience if He cant get to me through an onslaught of accusations... slanders... and sometimes a force of deep insults personal insults directly to my mind ... then He will try to offer me something in return for an agreement. He is the best at being a good cop and then a bad cop... but we know His wiles and we are taught to resist Him by the power of the Holy Spirit and the word of God as you have been saying here.  Reply Quote Notify

4241  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: October 12, 2009, 05:03:52 PM "Fence laws" is not a very biblical term... it sounds like something someone erects for the kids to jump over. Go to Hebrews and read the section about the milk bottle...  But law in scripture is really a metaphor for power. Paul talks about the power of the law... the power of the flesh or the law of the mind... that is the power of the natural mind and the power of the spiritual mind... when i want to do good... that is i have power to do good and evil is rite there with me... or the power of sin is in my members. This is why Paul says that when the commandment came sin revived and i died... he found the the commandment only increased the desire to sin. This is why the law has no other use but to show sin. It has no other power to work other than to increase the desire to sin. "For the commandment produced in me every kind of covetous desire" This is why the only change that a person will experience is  through the power of grace.  Grace is having the desire to do good even tho we have the freedom to sin. Grace is knowing that i have the freedom to sin and that sin is taken care of in Christ. Grace is not a law that requires me to know that i have the desire to do good and therefore i must do good so that i wont cheapen grace... but the value of grace is displayed more when i fail than when i succeed.  This is why grace and law are two opposites. The reason that people want to sin is because they are taught that grace will only help to a point and then you need the law. If grace was pure then there would be no reason to be moved to feel guilt.  Grace not only covers over the sin... but it covers over the punishment for sin and it covers over the guilt of sin.  This is probably the most miss understood principle that clouds over every thing that is taught, felt, and produced in the church. This fundamental principle is the difference between a legalistic church and a growing church. What cheapens grace is when someone who is not a believer tries to look like he has grace by law keeping.  Grace is the freedom to fail and find mercy and love. First of all it is because where the Spirit is there is freedom. I do not think that the influence of grace is necessarily from knowing the influence of freedom in a purely physiological way or a mechanical way. Even tho we have new longings for God and for His love ... yet when we uncover the influence of grace it is from the influence of the Spirit... i dont think its a mixture of our new identity with its free exercise in us but it is purely a matter of the full influence of the Spirit in this personal way. I ve been thinking about this for quite some time... and law is more than just something that comes from the mouth as an intellectual stimulus. I mean... how can we say that there is security in a boundary when at the same time we are saying that the cause of our having security is the boundless love of God? What is the source of our security? Is it an intellectual stimulus of knowing the boundary or is it a personal experience of Gods influence as being more than any of the sorrow in this world that we could experience as the purpose for our experiencing the personal effects of His Spirit? We ve got to experience as a matter of real deep communication to all of these areas of our soul... this love language of God. Because we are taught by the voice of a Shepherd and not a judge and a law giver. This is why we begin as a matter of the communication of grace to know the heart beat of how God as Father treats us as we sin. He never treats us according to our sins!!!!! What ever we feel about ourselves... in this color of sorrow .. in whatever mixture of these false views as to our identity in feeling the personal influence of guilt shame and fear we are moved along in this personal influence of the Spirit by this deep communication of His acceptance of us as sinners who have available to us this boundless love of God. Its not that we are psychologically trying to prove that God loves us but it is in the use of the word along with the Spirit that having been implanted with the seed of the word of God we are now being watered by His eternal love and faithfulness... that promise in His covenant faithfulness!! Now then we are under a totally foreign free power. This is the exercise of grace.      Reply Quote Notify

4242  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Drinking beer is not a sin? I think it is. on: October 12, 2009, 04:10:48 PM Quote from: Prodgrl on October 11, 2009, 05:15:22 PM Not drinking alcoholic beverages is one of those "fence laws" that some Christians have put into place; at times in the actual secular government, but more often in church law. If you think that all "fence laws" are wrong, then of course the rule against alcohol has to be wrong. The trend has been, to have less and less fence laws, at least in Western Christianity. Because "fence laws" are seen as being too "Pharisaical" (i.e., too "Jewish" or too "legalistic"). However, without any fence laws the church seems to find itself in secular court. Sex abuse scandal, anyone? Fence laws do vary according to the setting (time and place) but certainly should not be condemned out of hand. It is VERY biblical to have fence laws. The problem Jesus had, was NOT with fence laws. It was with saying one thing, doing another, and also with putting more emphasis on traditions which may or may not have been fence laws, in order to make everyone believe you were more spiritual than you actually are. Also, with making a big deal out of the "little" sins, but then ignoring the "big" sins. Gnats and camels. The trend has been, to make fun of those Christians who make their own fence laws to protect their families. And the ones that do the most harm in this ridicule, are other "Christians". (They may have the name Christian slapped on their foreheads, but they are NOT following Christ). "Fence laws" is not a very biblical term... it sounds like something someone erects for the kids to jump over. Go to Hebrews and read the section about the milk bottle...  But law in scripture is really a metaphor for power. Paul talks about the power of the law... the power of the flesh or the law of the mind... that is the power of the natural mind and the power of the spiritual mind... when i want to do good... that is i have power to do good and evil is rite there with me... or the power of sin is in my members. This is why Paul says that when the commandment came sin revived and i died... he found the the commandment only increased the desire to sin. This is why the law has no other use but to show sin. It has no other power to work other than to increase the desire to sin. "For the commandment produced in me every kind of covetous desire" This is why the only change that a person will experience is  through the power of grace.  Grace is having the desire to do good even tho we have the freedom to sin. Grace is knowing that i have the freedom to sin and that sin is taken care of in Christ. Grace is not a law that requires me to know that i have the desire to do good and therefore i must do good so that i wont cheapen grace... but the value of grace is displayed more when i fail than when i succeed.  This is why grace and law are two opposites. The reason that people want to sin is because they are taught that grace will only help to a point and then you need the law. If grace was pure then there would be no reason to be moved to feel guilt.  Grace not only covers over the sin... but it covers over the punishment for sin and it covers over the guilt of sin.  This is probably the most miss understood principle that clouds over every thing that is taught, felt, and produced in the church. This fundamental principle is the difference between a legalistic church and a growing church. What cheapens grace is when someone who is not a believer tries to look like he has grace by law keeping.  Grace is the freedom to fail and find mercy and love. First of all it is because where the Spirit is there is freedom. I do not think that the influence of grace is necessarily from knowing the influence of freedom in a purely physiological way or a mechanical way. Even tho we have new longings for God and for His love ... yet when we uncover the influence of grace it is from the influence of the Spirit... i dont think its a mixture of our new identity with its free exercise in us but it is purely a matter of the full influence of the Spirit in this personal way. I ve been thinking about this for quite some time... and law is more than just something that comes from the mouth as an intellectual stimulus. I mean... how can we say that there is security in a boundary when at the same time we are saying that the cause of our having security is the boundless love of God? What is the source of our security? Is it an intellectual stimulus of knowing the boundary or is it a personal experience of Gods influence as being more than any of the sorrow in this world that we could experience as the purpose for our experiencing the personal effects of His Spirit? We ve got to experience as a matter of real deep communication to all of these areas of our soul... this love language of God. Because we are taught by the voice of a Shepherd and not a judge and a law giver. This is why we begin as a matter of the communication of grace to know the heart beat of how God as Father treats us as we sin. He never treats us according to our sins!!!!! What ever we feel about ourselves... in this color of sorrow .. in whatever mixture of these false views as to our identity in feeling the personal influence of guilt shame and fear we are moved along in this personal influence of the Spirit by this deep communication of His acceptance of us as sinners who have available to us this boundless love of God. Its not that we are psychologically trying to prove that God loves us but it is in the use of the word along with the Spirit that having been implanted with the seed of the word of God we are now being watered by His eternal love and faithfulness... that promise in His covenant faithfulness!! Now then we are under a totally foreign free power. This is the exercise of grace.      Reply Quote Notify

4243  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Join Us for a good ol' fashoned BIBLE Burning!!! on: October 11, 2009, 04:06:01 PM I do not know how this particular brand of religion can be mixed up with Calvinism... just take a good look at the teachers and the doctrine that is endorsed here... this is nothing but old fashion American fundamentalism. Reply Quote Notify

4244  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Drinking beer is not a sin? I think it is. on: October 11, 2009, 02:29:46 PM Quote from: jjffer on October 10, 2009, 02:24:48 AM Quote from: pianoman on October 09, 2009, 10:21:35 PM It sure is all over the place just like my liver will be in a few yrs LOL Keith Richards got nuttin on me  Hey, I'm back! Pianoman, let me just say this, I'm a spirit-filled, speaking in tonques Christian who has been saved since 1972. I was 21 at the time and am now 58. My salvation was simply glorius! Born again salvation. Before that, I used to drink beer, wine. When I got saved, God took the desire to drink away. So, yes, I haven't had a drink since, praise God! Pianoman, just think, I was young, 21, got saved during the Jesus movement days. And I was young and drank before that. So, I've been there, done that. I know there are those who think like you, and there are those who think like me. Really, I believe you'd be better off not drinking, but God will have to convict you of that. I hope He does. I've heard too many stories of how booze can destroy lives. I wouldn't want that to happen to you. Secondly, Pianoman, what's your story? Are you a born-again Christian? Because if a person is just religious, they will probably drink. I would know, I grew up Catholic, and Catholics drink. And it does help to be filled with the Spirit. I believe you are a better Christian because of it and God can speak to you more clearly, otherwise why be spirit-filled? Pianoman, it's just something inside of me telling me not to drink booze and wine. I believe it's God speaking to me. I have a peace about it. Do you have a peace about what you're doing? Let God speak to you and show you what to do, don't try to figure things out with your own understanding. I find that when God shows me something that is sin, it's best to accept that and don't try to justify and allow for that sin. Now, have I sinned? Yes. Lots of times. But I did know it was sin and asked God's forgiveness for it. And I try to do God's will everyday. I may fail at times, but I keep trying my best to do God's will. Maybe what I say will help you in some way. I hope so. God bless.  God told Timothy through the apostle to drink a little wine for his stomachs sake... it had a good physical and spiritual purpose. Probably because it relaxed him. Reply Quote Notify

4245	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Satan's role: Old Test. vs New Test.	on: October 11, 2009, 10:39:10 AM
Its interesting that we have record of Satans access to the throne of God as the accuser of the saints. He not only roams the earth but he has access to heaven. But at the same time Satan is on a leash. I think that most of our temptations that we enter in are because they are designed to test our faith and Satan is the great architect of them. In some ways this is an encouragement to us because we know that temptations are only for a short time ... they come in our lives and then we are brought low .. then we go to greater heights when we find our relief and we get past them for a time of relief. This is why the apostle says we need to be aware of his tactics. He uses the religious system to attack us in our most vulnerable spots. Satan comes as an angel of light. Because he comes to us as a teacher of good works then we are naturally drawn to him because of our blind pride. I think that the reason God lets us be buffeted by Satan is because we are so easily led astray in our own ability. God wants to be worshiped as God and we are more interested in setting our eyes on this world and in our self confidence we fall rite into the devils snares. Satan is a master at reasoning with us so that we are focused on the trees and not seeing past these different areas of our own weakness. This is where Satan uses teachers to bring us under the power of the law rather than under the power of grace. Satan is the answer man. He gets us to focus on the system of mans philosophies by getting us to focus on an area where we are weak and then getting us to strive to find victory. He is the master of the counselor. He gets us to sit in the seat of the scoffer. But satans scoffers are not what we would think ... he uses the religious scoffer to bring us into bondage. God has made a way that is very different from the satanic world system of the philosophies of the religious. God has made a way of grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Gods ways are strictly being under the power of righteousness by being identified with Christ. In this very narrow identity we hear one voice over all the counselors of this worlds system both religious and secular. God declares a person righteous by a declaration in the court of heaven. God makes a person completely holy as a work in salvation.  Man looks on the outward appearance... God looks on the heart.  God chose a shepherd boy over the other brothers who were more able to deal with adversity as a matter of natural ways in the family of the father pointing out the stronger sibling. God chooses a shepherd boy who spent most of his life alone in the wilderness with a bunch of weak sheep. But David was trained to bring down the strong holds of satan and bring men into the reality of that power in Davids understanding of that power of grace in his identity and dependence on the power of God alone. He knew the great Shepherds voice!! Thats why he was able to identify the voice of the enemy.   4247  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Potty's in heaven?? on: October 09, 2009, 11:14:30 AM We carry the flesh around wherever we go. So that we learn to react in these different societies as we teach ourselves to be satisfied in a manner of avoiding a pain. I do not think this has any connection to our circumstances forcing the power of the flesh upon us. Nor do i think that we can be perfect in how we conduct ourselves as we are feeling the conflict that is raging within us. It is a general understanding as to how we view the truth in applying it to these different situations. God has an absolute understanding of every event and the existence of that which we have no understanding as to the connection of that thing to the event. So that in a sense we are practicing an art form in how we deal with our flesh as we understand our connection to who is God. Ive heard it defined as practicing the presence of God. God has defined reality in a way that in order for us to have an understanding of our particular reality in these societies then we must understand how we can deal with our flesh as He has determined. The understanding of man is like deep waters. That is we are very complex in finding our way in this life.  Who can define who we are if all of us are what we think we are in being a part of what others think they are without defining the other identity in a way that is unrealistic? I am thinking that there may be this deeper conscious design in this art form of how we conduct ourselves in these societies. I mean that maybe because people do not consider who they are in light of how God has designed them then they are overly confused about the other reality whatever that may be. Is it that the teaching they received from their circumstances to the understanding is really that which determines who they think they are? Or for some reason maybe this other reality... the one that is private has no real form of the other identity that by which they form their own understanding. Or is their identity defined as what they think they are by how their circumstances have defined them? In some sense the flesh has given us a pleasure to live with the design to function in the reality of receiving Gods gifts. I do not think that we have come close as human beings of getting to the healthy understanding of all that exist in the potential of finding a deeper level of understanding of the glory of all that exist that is veiled in finding that holistic view in light of our viewing this world. In a sense this is how we physically appear t 4250  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 08, 2009, 01:46:32 PM Quote from: gene.zeak on October 08, 2009, 01:01:17 AM A number of years ago before coming to Christ I was in a really severe depressive situation and ended up being committed to a psychiatric hospital. A counselor who worker there and I became friendly and would have coffee together on his breaks. One day I asked him, "How often have you seen people actually change?" He thought quietly a few moment and replied, "Gene, I've been n counseling over twenty years and I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone change. What I have seen are a lot of people try harder." This became especially important to me after coming to Christ because I realized my efforts would never amount to anything except temporarily modified behavior ... not real, needed change. Please understand that this is from a man born without a conscience, one who had been classified as a person with a sociopathic personality. There is no cure because like children born without arms or legs, you can't treat what's not there. Jesus became my conscience and today I can look back and see where real changes have taken place. Real counseling will always lead one to total and complete submitted dependence on Him, never on self ... ever! whatever, gene I agree with you.. i often sit and think about how a person comes to a change of behavior. And i agree  that you cant change how a person acts unless you have a heart change or a change in the general attitude. In Ps. 1 there is a direct warning as to what kind of counsel we are to consider. That is exactly what you are pointing out here Gene. How can we change our own hearts if we do not have the capability without  forcing ourselves to do something for the wrong reasons? And this is exactly what we are required to do as a matter of dealing with our own hearts. We are required to know how impossible it is to wash ourselves from our own sins or desires that are not pleasing to God. As you said in your statement above... we do not need a change of behavior .. but we need a new self. God is the only one who is able to change the new self. Can a Leopard change its spots? Let me show you a principle here in  Ps 18  20 The LORD has dealt with me according to my righteousness;        according to the cleanness of my hands he has rewarded me. 21 For I have kept the ways of the LORD;        I have not done evil by turning from my God. 22 All his laws are before me;        I have not turned away from his decrees.  23 I have been blameless before him        and have kept myself from sin. 24 The LORD has rewarded me according to my righteousness,        according to the cleanness of my hands in his sight. 25 To the faithful you show yourself faithful,        to the blameless you show yourself blameless, 26 to the pure you show yourself pure,        but to the crooked you show yourself shrewd. 27 You save the humble        but bring low those whose eyes are haughty. 28 You, O LORD, keep my lamp burning;        my God turns my darkness into light. 29 With your help I can advance against a troop [d] ;        with my God I can scale a wall. 30 As for God, his way is perfect;        the word of the LORD is flawless.        He is a shield        for all who take refuge in him. 31 For who is God besides the LORD ?        And who is the Rock except our God?  Here David is making some statements about himself that would seem to be arrogant. I mean .. this is the same person who in other Psalms is asking the Lord not to treat David according to his own sins. But here he seems to be saying that he has met all of the requirements of the law. But this is just confidence expressed in his military victories and there is this same thinking here as the apostle when he discusses his struggle in Rom. 7 and 8. If you look he is really bringing out the difference between how God has dealt with him and the judgment that God has dealt his enemies.If you look 26 you will see there is a difference between how David is describing himself and what he says about his foes in battle... David is pure... the nations are crooked. Of course David would never mean pure in the sense that he himself was pure. But since he is dependent on God as his refuge then he is identified with God as Gods own. Thats why in the very next verse he distinguishes himself from the wicked by saying that God is close to the humble... it is here that he is alluding to psalm 1 where he says that the righteous know God but the wicked are like chaff.(There are sort of these catch phrases in most of the Psalms that draw us back to Psalm 1.) They are the arrogant ones. I mean he just got done saying all of these wonderful things about himself then he says that God hates the proud. He is talking about a transformed  self here in Davids trust in these military victories.  This is purely super naturalistic. And then David begins to extol God as working through David. Then David ends the psalm with giving all of the glory and praise to God.  Now here is this order of things within the context of how we come to be so confident but yet not being able to be acceptable by our own efforts. What does the apostle say... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. What is this Christ like reverence look like? Well we know that there is a problem with being able to meet the requirements of being blameless before God. How can we be acceptable before a holy God? The only way is by His "great mercy"! "But, I by your great mercy will enter your house and in reverence will i bow down toward your holy hill. And understanding of Gods great mercy in extending His free grace to us in forgiveness is how our physical body is going to follow our attitude of our hearts. This is exactly how David was so confident in God... because He was extolling Gods good mercies to David by saying that David was acceptable to God as Gods vessel. We do everything and God does everything. Or God works in us and through us as we trust in His mercy. Then we will be bowed down in worship at what He has done through us... this is the only christian kind of confidence.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 4251  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 07, 2009, 08:31:28 PM I will try to put some terms out here to distinguish between different forms of counseling.  Because i believe there is a difference in the depth of counseling and the kind of advice that is discussed. I have also had some professional counseling. And then i have had some pastoral counseling. So i have tried to glean as much from the counseling technique as i have from the kind of healing that i received. It has produced some very big frustrations in my own mind as well as having a better understanding not only in terms of the insights that i have gleaned but learning more about the wisdom in knowing how these methods are being applied to my particular life. I think everyone here has expressed have recieved counseling in different ways... Bill has made a distinction between professional counseling and discipleship. Bill. I was wondering if you could explain some of the insights that you have gleaned both positive and negative. You too Geno.. and everyone. Remove Reply Quote Notify 4252  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 07, 2009, 02:14:56 PM Quote from: crowwoman on October 07, 2009, 01:56:20 PM You know, I've had professional counseling which was a positive experience, but I've also had friends who gave some pretty good advice and kept me from making pretty big mistakes. I think you're right that they need to be pretty normal folks, they need to have some experience to draw from, you really don't want someone who is really judgmental and you have to value their personal walk if you're going to trust them. I have found that the best counseling that has been most positive in my life is from those people who are mainly supportive and are willing to give a person some room to fail. I dont see a difference in a christian grace perspective and sharing about problems that are hard to deal with both in ourselves and others.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 4253  Forums / Theology Forum / Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 07, 2009, 01:31:31 PM I have want to start a thread for a long time about those who are not counselors in the professional way... who can give others warnings or positive  insights on some of the experiences that you have had.My experience in this is that i have had some of the best advice from people who are just common people like me. Ok ... whos going to step in this first? Reply Quote Notify 4254  Forums / Current Events / Re: 3 years ago today on: October 06, 2009, 11:59:51 PM Thank you so much for being my friend ... and since i knew you as an internet friend before the pain .. .i can see that you have such a sense of Gods presence .... and this is something that i consider special in knowing you Pete... Even in your suffering you have encouraged me by all those e mails and the back and forth emails over these yrs... I think of you often... and just knowing you has changed all of our lives... every time you share how you are trusting in Him through the pain we all grow a million times more than any other post here. Really. May God place His hand on you and bring you joy in the mist of this time of trial... prayin for you bro. Reply Quote Notify 4255  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: This Kind.... on: October 06, 2009, 12:34:13 PM The end goal is to experience a single free declaration of Gods prevalent free exercise of His goodness and faithfulness... as extending His personal love and acceptance in lite of the eternal existence of this continuous free flow of the worship of all the beings in heaven to a universal experience of that power in our earthly worship!! We are celebrating ... not under the illusion of the powers of another world but in being the recipients of this glorious procession as we worship in the presence of these heavenly beings. Jesus is actually present as if He were standing at the center of all of this praise and worship in  this vision of all that is praise worthy in our united desire to find our freedom in this celebration!! It is not that we find some small consultation of our troubles from this world... but it is a rise to actually find a reality of all that exist in the world above to fall upon our very souls so that we find nothing that is close to holding us to this present world. We must rise to be enraptured in God alone!!! APC Woooooooooooo. Remove Reply Quote Notify 4256  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: This Kind.... on: October 06, 2009, 12:08:25 PM The logical inference of a thing is what is imagined to be the reality of its existence as how it is in the reality of eternity and not of progression. And here i would say is how we come to understand what kind of powers are determined to hold us as we define the difference between what is an idea that is imagined and what is something that we experience far beyond this world in the course if its powers. Here i would say that this is why this kind of deep experience of the powers of another world have a certain revealing in an art form. Praying in the Spirit is distinct and not a general hit and miss. We are working toward an experience of His power to work toward the most destructive prevalent imagination that we must apply the force of the illumination ...so that men will not trust in an odd connection as they are seeking to find unity in a spiritual reality. This is one reality resisting an imagined reality as that which defines what is holding men under some illusion of these half truths or what is not true truth. When we pray in the Spirit we are going into the throne room of God and we are casting down the imaginations that exalts itself against God and we are bringing into captivity what captivates this peer illusion. In this way we are not struggling with something that we can see touch and feel ... but we are being exposed to a spiritual world where all things are bound or released as they are in heaven. This is Him determining through us what will be the spiritual success. This is praying in the Spirit.    Remove Reply Quote Notify 4257  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: This Kind.... on: October 06, 2009, 11:48:27 AM Quote from: Willis on October 05, 2009, 04:05:33 PM Quote from: mybigGod on October 05, 2009, 02:07:46 PM The context is about Demon possession.. and Jesus cast the demon out... Well, it's the man and the crowd who assumed it was demon possession. Jesus said that the spirit was "deaf and mute." Mark 1 32That evening after sunset the people brought to Jesus all the sick and demon-possessed. 33The whole town gathered at the door, 34and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was. At least in this case it's clear that sometimes Jesus DID cast out demons. But it should be noted that Jesus would not let them speak. In the later case of Mark 9, the so-called "demon" was deaf and mute. To me that seems more like a euphemism for the non-existence of a demonic spirit. There are many cases where it is clear that the demons could speak and often did. Other times I think Jesus was only healing mental illnesses or other pathological conditions that the people of the time couldn't explain and attributed to demon possession. It probably wasn't important to Jesus to try and give a lecture about neurology to people who wouldn't have understood anyway. He had bigger fish to fry. So I think many of the cases where Jesus healed the "demon-possessed" were physiological healings and not exorcisms. If you read the various cases as they are presented in the Gospels it doesn't seem that hard to me in most cases to tell the difference knowing what we know now about mental illness.   Well Willis... its a literal interpretation of the word demon... i do not think you can have a loose interpretation in a metaphorical sense. That would create all kinds of interpretations about the actual context of the difference between a disease and a state of existence. Remove Reply Quote Notify 4258  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: October 06, 2009, 11:40:57 AM Quote from: toadbat on October 02, 2009, 04:21:50 PM Quote from: mybigGod on October 02, 2009, 09:50:14 AM Legalism:  Any attempt to rely on self-effort to either attain or maintain our justification before God "After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Gal.3:3. A Definition of Legalism 1. Using the Mosaic covenant as though it is the covenant between you and God. 2. Attempting to be justified by one's own works. 3. Attempting to be sanctified by one's own works 4. Suggesting that our worth or worthlessness, our self-esteem and self-satisfaction or lack thereof, rest on our own works. 5. Any attempt to please God judicially, or any supposition that our sin as believers has resulted in his judicial displeasure. [Any post-salvation attempt to maintain our judicial standing before God through good works, covenant faithfulness, merit etc..] 6. Teaching that we conform ourselves to our judicial standing in Christ (righteous and perfect) by our own works. 7. Attempting to attain godliness by a systematic change of behavior 8. Obedience that does not spring from a renewed heart 1. As of an unbeliever who has no renewed heart 2. As of a believer who has a renewed heart but whose righteous behavior does not spring therefrom. 9. Any supposition that externally righteous acts have any value on their own, even as conduct that prepares the way for either 1. A renewed heart (preparationism as regards justification), 2. The softening or further renewing of an already renewed heart (preparationism as regards sanctification. Note Romans 12:2-Transformation occurs through the renewing of the mind), or 3. Any other work of the Spirit. 10. Suggesting that faith is irrelevant in the accomplishment of some (or all) good works. 11. Trying to be justified by works that are created and inspired by the Holy Spirit. 12. Attempting to gain assurance of salvation solely or primarily on the basis of the sign of outward works - Bill Baldwin Mbg, this is undoubtedly the one of the best quotes you've posted here yet. This should be made into leaflets and dropped from a plane over every church in the country! Thanks TB and yes this quote will come up often in this thread... here is a quote  that must be pounded into the synthetic flesh of this modern day incorporated man.  Legalism... 1. Using the Mosaic covenant as though it is the covenant between you and God. Remove Reply Quote Notify 4259  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: All men cleansed from sin on the Cross ... on: October 06, 2009, 11:00:12 AM Quote from: beacon2 on October 05, 2009, 07:01:53 PM Quote from: beacon2 on October 02, 2009, 06:57:32 PM Quote from: mybigGod on September 30, 2009, 11:56:31 AM I think you guys are painting a picture that is not correct... if God justifies the whole world and takes care of their sin... then what is left for them to do? Ok.. you are saying that heaven and hell are determined upon their choice!!! In other words they are not under any condemning power of the law except the law of this personal choice!!! Choose to take this and you will live... choose to ignore it and you will burn in hell.  If this is what you are saying then what is the difference with their relationship to all of the law of God if its still their choice that determines justice? You are teaching the same works righteousness.  MBG, I don't understand why the reformed doctrine insists that belief is a choice, and that  choice is a "work." Belief IMO is a gut response as is fear for example.  There is really no choice involved.  When confronted with the gospel, a person may say to himself "I choose to believe" but deep down not truly accept it as truth.  They might even be fooling themselves into thinking they really believe, but only God would know. But even if believing was a matter of choice, why would that be considered a work? b2 MBG, Let me focus on what I believe are your objections to what I’ve said so far: Quote from: mybigGod on October 04, 2009, 10:10:40 AM Over the yrs.. .especially when i was memorizing the book of Acts i thought a lot about this idea of believing in a gift. There is a difference between that and giving something required as a matter of receiving. Belief IS a requirement of the 2d Covenant.  No belief, no gift of eternal life.  Christ was very explicit on this in John Chap 3 when He said that those who do not believe are condemned already. Is belief something we “give”?  NO.  Not in the basic definition of that word.  But belief IS something that men definitely have to “experience” in their spirit for God to give men the gift of His Spirit and eternal life. Is belief a gift from God?  What do we have that has not been given? 1 Cor 4:7, Eph 2:8 Quote from: mybigGod on October 04, 2009, 10:10:40 AM My point in my arguing with you about a universal transaction to the human race of Christ righteousness is that it cheapens the gospel... Why?  How does God’s grace that overflowed to all men in the form of forgiveness of sins through Christ’s sacrifice cheapen the gospel?  The gospel still is that men must believe “in the One He has sent.” Quote from: mybigGod on October 04, 2009, 10:10:40 AM In order for us to have any idea of what we are receiving we must know what we are being offered. I definitely agree with you on the above.  That is why is so important that we understand exactly what happened on the Cross. Quote from: mybigGod on October 04, 2009, 10:10:40 AM If Christ has imputed His righteousness to the whole human race then the value of the gift is reduced to a description of His ability to change the hearts of all men as ineffective. Christ accomplished exactly what He was supposed to on the Cross.  Three things:  1. Bring the Adamic covenant to its complete fulfillment by stepping in and taking the punishment/penalty for the sins of all men.  2.  Cleanse all men from sin by His blood, and thus obtain forgiveness for all men from the Father.  3. Ratify the New Covenant. The “changing of the hearts of men” is a function executed by God under the provision of the New Covenant as men come to believe in the Son and God makes them into new creations. b2 Let me say something about Gods covenant faithfulness. God is not required to make a way for the salvation of sinners. Gods faithfulness is displayed in His ability alone. When we talk about the covenant we are talking about a one sided reality. In this sense a covenant was decided before the foundation of the world and is not bound to progressive revelation... a covenant is an eternal declaration that God alone will procure for Himself a people of whom He would bring to Himself unto the end that He would receive all of the glory ... as displaying His eternal faithfulness and love. As we say a covenant focuses on Gods own abilities and attributes as the foundation of all that transpires in our lives as we find our security outside of our experiencing this salvation. The salvation of the elect was agreed upon in the counsel of the trinity... not in the New Covenant but in the Trinity before the foundation of the world. We say that salvation is in God alone.  We do not define these eternal realities as we see how we would want salvation to transpire in this world. All of salvation as men stand before God was ordained before man actually chose in the garden to deny that God is who He says He is. God decrees whatsoever comes to pass.  He is free to say that He will not share His glory with any man. Not even His own righteousness as being intrinsic to man.  God has imputed sin to the whole human race as a result of one mans sin. We say that Gods absolute sovereignty over man kind is also displayed in His declaration of men being under His wrath for all eternity. If God is free to place His love on man... then He is also free to display His glory in the judgment of man. If He displays His wrath it is because it is according to His just recompense that He is who He is by His glory being displayed by His eternal justice. This is why we marvel at how God can be gracious to one sinner when we exalt His reasons for being a God of justice.  There is no human reason why God would make a man acceptable in imputing a foreign righteousness to his account and declaring that man righteous ... not intrinsically but by identity. Salvation is the displaying by God of His eternal justice and love for reasons that we cannot understand when we think of why we have been chosen. His choice of us is far beyond our understanding of what is just.  Reply Quote Notify 4260  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: PHYSICAL DEATH on: October 06, 2009, 09:15:50 AM Gene ... i agree that we are to rest and relax in Him. And i also agree that there is not much we can do without Him. Some people have a view of the christian life as a life in which we try to uncover all of our good and bad points ... our sins... our addictions etc .. and then we will face the reality of who we are. But a believer has been cleansed from all of his sins and the punishment of his sins so that he communicates on a level that is not muddled in all of this strife. We are told who we are and we struggle to have that in our present understanding because our faith is very small. This is why we have a daily reminder by the voice of our great Shepherd... who teaches us that since we are connected to Him that we are able to know this power of HIs resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in His suffering because we are kings and priest of our Lord. We have suffering ... not as a definition of who we are in our being made new ... but suffering acts as a force for finding our real new self to be fully satisfied in being His kings and priest.Our trials hold us in His hands... if we believed who we really are as His children then we would wonder why it is that everyone around us views themselves with such a low view. Will pick this up later.