876	Forums / Main Forum / Re: God's Motives	on: December 13, 2011, 10:19:14 AM
mylife... youve been a real encouragement to me over the years. I know we tend to think of things as if our experience was what God was saying to us. But God only speaks in very definite ways. So our experience is very uncertain. No matter how we are weak in helping others God does not lead us to failure or regret. I know the past does not make us who we are .. i mean ... our past failures. But there is nothing wrong with blaming our problems on the circumstances instead of our failure to do as He wants in relationships. The problems with us do not make the world more evil. I try not to think that i am that good. But we really are helpless and in need of God. We really need to find the source of our troubles outside of our inner conflict. The world really is a place where a few people ruin it for the rest of us.  Because God does not define us by our relationships or our bad sorrows. But He has made us what we are. We just need to start with how God has ordered our lives. And every day He teaches us to deflect blame in an effort to see that we are totally accepted by Him. Whenever i try to mix my sorrow and sin as a way to not accept myself its not seeing  Gods memories through me as a way to live above my circumstances.
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1877  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free Grace Freedom on: December 13, 2011, 09:48:49 AM Man these are days of small things. I am soo disheartened. Where is the truth any more? What happened to the gospel of grace? Every where I turn i find people who have very little knowledge. I don t mean that i am the standard of grace but palleeesssse this has been a bizarre year for me.  People there really is a justification by faith. Put away your religious fervor and please let the scripture speak for itself. I am bound the the WCF. I remind myself of my oath. We do not believe in a works righteousness. We believe in the doctrines of grace. I do not make minor things the major things because i want control ... How long do i need to be forlorn of my soul? Where is the men of grace gone? I spend a life time in thinking about these things and some how my words are twisted. I wonder if people are really speaking in behalf of me for my best interest or if i am in the way.  God promises to enable us as our bold declaration that we are accepted! The gospel is not a way to get us into the covenant promises but the gospel is our way of life! You must hold to your covenant! There is no reality in our producing evidence of our own goodness without rejoicing that we are saved by grace and He has determined our way in spite of our best efforts. God does not reward self fulfilled humility. He rewards sinners who boast in Him alone as being humble.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

1878  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 13, 2011, 08:40:47 AM cont. There is legitimate righteous threats. These are in the form of the curses of the law.Expressing righteous anger is in the use of curses. Because anger expressed to God is God responding with love and judgement. The wicked curse the righteous. They stand responsible for their own behavior before the law of God. When they curse they curse from a self power of dominance. When the righteous man curses... its from a rite under the law of God to do as God said He would do on behalf of the righteous. Listen if God demands absolute allegiance from idols. If God were to say that hating idols was not acceptable to Him then He would be denying Himself. This is why we do not accept contradictions as an alternative to the mysteries of God. We accept that God is both a God of love.. promised in HIs covenant and a God of judgement enacted upon all the reprobate. To believe in any other power is to be double minded.  There is only one place where anger is extinguished. Its in the curses in our rite as His children to express it to Him as He has defined what is acceptable. Listen we live in the reality of God who is present. The rest of mankind does not see ...they do not understand... it does not matter that God curses law breakers. Our activity in our approach to God does not translate to them. They are completely blind. They curse to destroy other men. But we curse to bring peace.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

1879  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom of the Will.... J. Edwards on: December 13, 2011, 08:15:28 AM 5. It appears from what has been said, that these terms necessary, impossible, &c. are often used by philosophers and metaphysicians in a sense quite diverse from their common and original signification; for they apply them to man cases in which no opposition is supposable. Thus they use them with respect to God's existence before the creation of the world, when there was no other being; with regard to many of the dispositions and acts of the divine Being, such as his loving himself, his loving righteousness, hating sin, &c. So they apply them to many cases of the inclinations and actions of created intelligent beings wherein all opposition of the Will is excluded in the very supposition of the case. Metaphysical or philosophical Necessity is nothing different from their certainty. I speak not now of the certainty of knowledge, but the certainty that is in things themselves, which is the foundation of the certainty of the knowledge, or that wherein lies the ground of the infallibility of the proposition which affirms them. What is sometimes given as the definition of philosophical Necessity, namely, "That by which a thing cannot but be," or "where by it cannot be otherwise," fails of being a proper explanation of it, on two accounts: First, the words can, or cannot, need explanation as much as the word Necessity; and the former may as well be explained by the latter, as the latter by the former. Thus, if any one asked us what we mean, when we say, a thing cannot but be, we might explain ourselves by saying, it must necessarily be so; as well as explain Necessity, by saying, it is that by which a thing cannot but be. And Secondly, this definition is liable to the fore-mentioned great inconvenience; the words cannot, or unable, are properly relative, and have relation to power exerted, or that may be exerted, in order to the thing spoken of; to which as I have now observed, the word Necessity, as used by philosophers, has no reference. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1880  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: OF THE WORK OF THE HOLY GHOST IN OUR SALVATION... Thomas Goodwin on: December 13, 2011, 08:08:57 AM The Spirit is the same in every member. Now consider with yourselves, if there were but one common soul (as some have feigned to be in the system of the world) which acted, and enlivened every man and thing in the world, you would acknowledge that it must be a mighty, vast, and burthensome work which is incumbent upon that great soul (whatever it were), and which it undergoes at every moment. But thus it is in reality with this great Spirit, the soul of the whole church, who both informs and enliveneth the whole, and every member of it. What therefore is next to be considered, is the activity of this Holy Spirit upon us, and in working in us. 1. First, in general; he worketh no less than all that is wrought, 1 Cor. xii. 11, 'But all these worketh that one and self-same Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.' As of Christ, who is the Word, it is said in the point of the first creation (John i. , that 'without him there was not anything made that was made;' so of the Spirit in this new creation we may say, that without him there is not anything wrought in us that is wrought. But let us consider particularly his works. (1.) In regeneration, which is his prime work in us. He is the author of all the principles or habits of grace, of that whole new creature, of that workmanship created to good works, the spiritual man, which is called spirit; that divine nature, which is the mass and lump of all things pertaining to life and godliness; that which is born of the Spirit, John iii. 6; the image of Christ, which is styled ' Christ formed in us,' Gal. iv. 19. That divine nature is the image drawn. But who is the immediato former, the limner? It is the Spirit of God; 2 Cor. iii. 18, 'We are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.' And that place shews that not only the first draught of that image is of his drawing, the ground colours, but all the additional lines that follow after, to perfect it all along, from one end of the work to the other. For ho attributes that continual change wrought after conversion, in every degree of it, ' from glory to glory,' unto this Spirit. And therein he so speaks of himself and these believing Corinthians, yea, all believers. 'We are thus changed' all along by beholding, &c. All the changes into that image are by the Spirit of the Lord. No hand hath skill or power to add to this work; none able to mingle colours orient and lively enough but he. In the same chapter the believing Corinthians are declared to be 'the epistle of Christ,' so far as they were or shewed themselves Christians in reality. And Christ and his graces are the perfect original and exemplar; and these Corinthians, so far as they had advanced in Christianity, were for essential parts the entire copy, which in some degree does express to the life that original. And there is not a letter or tittle added in the copy which is not found in him, 2 Cor. iii. 8, 'For ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ, ministered' (indeed says the apostle) 'by us' (as the pens), 'but written with the Spirit of the living God; not with ink, nor in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart:' unto the draught of the least line of which no art or pencil of man can reach, or hath colours orient enough to write it. For all and every tittle, every stroke, is no other than an inward living disposition of heart, like unto the divine life and nature of Christ, the Son of the living God, and therefore requires the living power of the Spirit of the living God (as he is there styled) to concur to the creating of it; Ps. li. 10,11, ' Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.' For as he vouchsafes to become the ink, so he bears the part of a hand, too, of a ready writer. The Spirit is the finger of God (Mat. xii. 28, compared with Luke xi. 20), the sole artist that guides those pens that cast this ink, as there also (in ver. 6) it follows: 'God hath made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter' (for even that New Testament hath also letter to men unregenerate, and is but the dispensation of a notion), 'but of the Spirit,' or power. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1881  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 13, 2011, 07:34:32 AM We are never to threaten anyone. In the wisdom books a threat is a potential self infliction. I do not think that threats are only voices in a physical sense but they are schemes and plots disguised as a logical moral sequence for control. God is not like man. He does not threaten in this way. Gods threats set into motion a sure defense for the righteous-(Its in the phrase they think God is not watching.) The reason that a man threatens is for control. God does not need to control but He orders whatsoever comes to pass. Mans control is based upon the assumption that he has legitimate power or power of persuasion out of chance. If man really believed in Gods rite to rule then his first response would be a solemn quietness. God speaks and shuts the mouths of all men. This is why we distinguish between saving faith which spawns the desires of the righteous that cannot be thwarted against the self fulfillment of the wicked whos desires are like the chaff of the wind. The righteous always find comfort in their inability to do one good thing. The righteous are taught this view of reality in their taking refuge in God. When they take refuge in God it is from the control and threats of the wicked. But the wicked find comfort in their past to control their success in destroying other mens lives. They practice the doctrine of a bully. Satan being their father. God speaks and all is well. God does not need to force a mans hand. God is not like man. All men are born with a desire to be independent of God. The try to erase God from their world. Because God demands absolute allegiance. God demands perfect obedience. God will not lower His standard and make man powerful enough as an independent authority to get away with mans bullying others. Gods ways are to use mans threats against him. A threat is like a shovel of dirt piling up next to a big hole. God uses mans threats to cast him into his own grave.  Now listen to me. Personal threats are very serious issues.( I dont mean joking around.) But these methods are like arrows that pierce the skin. They defile a man and bring a man into anxiety. This is like a physical war. But its a war of the rites of men to be accepted as they are. You need to understand that the world uses methods based upon their natures. They play the same tune every where you go. This way is so common that there is a danger that we become immune to it. You must deal with this in a serious way. It does not matter how close the relationship is. To have allegiance to Jesus we must not accept the methods of the reprobate. We must rebel from these evil ways. How do we rebel and yet protect ourselves from being hardened by these threats? We approach God as transparent and plead upon the basis of His covenant love. This takes a ruthless dealing with our anger before God so that we do not become hardened in our hearts. It greases the tracks of the bully.    Remove Reply Quote Notify

1882  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Forgiveness on: December 13, 2011, 07:11:56 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on December 12, 2011, 01:36:13 PM Well most of my life seems to be about patience-training.  I'm currently practising long-suffering in waiting for worc to show up again, klab to get filthy (but cleanly) rich, stonelifter to get a new vehicle, cat to finish her salvation story, mbG to be brief, angel to kick the coffee habit, and the list goes on and on (and myself to be holy -- not to leave anyone out).  So what's a little more Patients gonna hurt, eh? Kk and his control issues.... lol hope we can use all of scripture not just pick and choose. lol. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1883  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free Grace Freedom on: December 12, 2011, 03:25:43 PM Quote from: toadbat on December 11, 2011, 10:02:41 PM Thanks Mbg. It is refreshing to see an argument which refutes (no matter how subtly or craftily they put it) the "God-has-done-His-part-now-you-need-to-do-yours" types of theologies and recovery systems. Maybe this is why after 5 years clean-and-sober I relapsed. (This last October). Trying to reconcile the gospel of grace to 12-steps where the ball is most certainly in your court 24/7 began to be a bit taxing. I know there are those who believed they have come up with the perfect formula (ahem, cough-cough!) for reconciling these two antipodal concepts - the amount of verbiage which gets expended doing so could fill-up three Libraries of Congress. Can't do it anymore. Not saying I will never attend anymore meetings; just saying I am no longer going to mix something designed soley for therapy with something designed entirely for my eternal well-being. Hasn't worked - "Or else grace is no more grace." Thanks TB... Your honesty really does make us all forget that other sin. But i know with Kk its like red meat. Hes going to come with the guns blazing... i just dont want to bust his bubble by showing him that only 5 percent of the people are helped by his kind. Maybe this should make you TB happy because your forgiven and clean....its funny how God always is concerned about how we come to know we belong to His family and not how we can resist sin. Its hard when you have the static in the back ground always pointing to you that you are a drunk. I remember that you lost your job and that was a big thing. This world is very uncertain and ive got to be honest and say that i could give a crap about my addictions. What i am concerned about is being safe at this point. So yes.. i am damn mad ... and i will not take this. lol.    Remove Reply Quote Notify

1884  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 12, 2011, 03:09:00 PM Kk is a methodist .. shoot if he was running the country we would have people locked up in jail for drinking... no military ... and be subject to the big bullies..lol..only take half of what he says.. hes collecting his money and sitting some where sucking up the sun. that last one i am not sure about. But we as saints are promised an advocate in the gift of the Holy Spirit. Believe it or not the Holy Spirit doesnt just convict men of sin but He strikes them to the heart. Look at the manger and you will see that there were angels all around.Now if we understand that God does indeed work through the prayers of His ot church dont you think these Psalms had played a big part in the presence of these angels at the birth of Christ? Why do we think there is this cute little baby with these fury animals and these white knighted angels at that manger and think this was a helpless picture? Wow... Because we do not consider the potential dangers as very big part of the story of Jesus. Herod was on a witch hunt for Jesus. And when we look at the will of God being carried out He does not include man as a part of moving this along! Listen these angels were not just present for the cute picture...lol They were like the bouncers you see at the bar who thwart the potential violence. Angels are very powerful creatures who guard the saints. We have angels who minister to us not only standing in between us and spirits but us and men as well. The desire of Israel was the coming Redeemer who would force His presence among men with enough protection to be able to get to the cross and accomplish His task. Now listen to me the saint has a path that he walks on. How can we know what Jesus did if all the events of His life were not put down in holy writ? Jesus was surely not a Methodist. lol Jesus walked among men who were like devils. Think about this as you think about the story of Jesus walking among men. The main characters where not human ... people... watch the Devil follow Jesus around. Watch Jesus resist the Devils advances. This was not just a man. Do what Jesus did? Ok.. then pray for the death angel to put vengeance on other men who are against you! Who stand in your way to advance against the wiles of the devil. DO WHAT JESUS DID! We are really loved by God. I know its hard to believe because every time you advance along this path there are threats and people directing you to turn around. Listen God is not really focused on your sin! Hes focused on your ability to advance along this one path. He wants to make us like He promises to as we are His special children. But we cant let the world mold the way we think about who we are! If God is in the heavens and He is dealing with the biggest powers of this earth. And every time they plot against Him and tries the thwart His purposes ... He looks at them and LAUGHS! YES HE LAUGHS! You are His child! Why are you all curled up in the corner shaking like a little weeny? When are you going to fight? When are you going to engage the enemy? Are you just going to take all the insults and hold on until you get to heaven or do you want to hold God to His promises that He will make the path your walk on smooth as a babies bottom! When was the last time you laughed at the bullies? When? When was the last time you got the last laugh so to speak? First let me say that fighting is not in my nature. You ask anyone who knows me that i am as harmless as can be. I had to teach myself to engage in this spiritual battle. I remember when my son played soccer and there was this one guy on the opponents team who was scaring the crap out of our team. He was playing physical and you could see that he was a real threat to the kids safety in the game.You know me i see things and i am always trying to be in a state of glory even in the middle of a game. I kind of laughed inside that day...  Well they both went up for the ball and my son got the best of him. He was carted off the field. Its nice to feel a part of the Family... The team was amazed at my sons toughness. And my son is not tough naturally. But the point is that our sins do not make us fall. Its what the enemies of God who place rode blocks... dig holes...threaten and abuse us ... slander us.. they are the ones God is focused on. We are completely safe in this new family. God is not just our father who loves us but Hes given us His Spirit to like a big brother to watch over us. I hope to teach you how to advance laughing along the way.      Remove Reply Quote Notify

1885  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 12, 2011, 08:35:22 AM This thread is going to be directed toward bullies... so Im going to talk about the Psalms that are ruthless. I hope to enlighten you of how to endure fools when you do not have a choice to avoid them.  Remove Reply Quote Notify

1886  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 11, 2011, 05:50:47 PM The righteous man is given the thinking and speaking of Christ. Because the righteous man has been given the word of God and the Spirit of God as his teacher and guide. This is why what the righteous man talks about is always twisted by the reprobate and evil man. We live in a world that is always trying to overturn our natural abilities. This is why we are frustrated. We have a natural longing to go to a far country and live without any foes. We know real freedom and the world is full of threats and violence. This is why our anger is righteous. Because we see where the threats come from and we know who hates God. How can we get help. How can we gain victory over the schemes of the wicked? We must appeal to God and His promises in His covenant. He promises to destroy all of our foes. We must be strong and persistent. God has His angels in heaven who do His will. They collect the prayers of the saints and carry them before the throne where the angle collects the fire from the altar and it goes up before God. We are to ask God to collect our tears and our prayers then He will make a clear path for us. We are over comers. Over comers pray righteous prayers. Over comers persevere in prayer. They gain confidence through the word of God and the promises of God. They do not doubt that God has given them clear words of counsel. A righteous man does no waver in His faith. He knows how to approach the throne of God so that He might tear down strong holds and every thing that sets itself up against the knowledge of God and through His prayers he brings everything into captivity. Tell God that these evil men are twisting your words. Tell God they are repaying your good with evil. Tell God they are accusing you nite and day. Tell God that you want Him to collect your prayers so that He will have that sweet smelling aroma and in return will answer your prayers. Do not retreat.. do not grow weary. Even if you have a parched throat from crying out God sees your pain and He will respond. The righteous man has a level path for His feet. Because the Spirit makes this path. The Spirit leads him out of trouble... the Spirit preserves his life..the Spirit silences his enemies and the Spirit destroys his enemies. The righteous man advances in the name of Jehovah.  Remove Reply Quote Notify

1887  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Psalms study... on: December 11, 2011, 04:05:32 PM 44 Psalm of Instruction refers to the exodus...no time in reigns of David or Solomon to suit this Psalm. Temple worship carried on. People in the land.Israel gone astray.Judah had turned away but had returned. Suits Hezekiah only.Sennacherib and Rab ahakeh referred to in 1. God... Elohim told us... rehearsed heathen...nations... canaanites people...peoples...the Canaanites cast them out...spread them about...them referring to Israel in both clauses. them ..referring to Israel in both clauses but ..for giving the reason a favour Thou....Thou Thyself art my King...art de...my King deliverance's...plural of majesty. ...great deliverance enemies...adversaries trust...confide bow sword....figure of speech for military science. 2 kings 19 32 when something pertaining to the subject is put for the subject itself. but ... for as hast saved....dist save v 1-4 boast...have boasted selah...connecting the wondrous past with the distressing present... introducing the reason which called forth the Psalm itself.and marking the important break determining the structure. but...but now...very emphatic ...marking great contrast cast off ...as with contempt... spoil for themselves ..have plundered at their will sheep appointed for meat... sheep of devouring..genitive of relation scattered is... Israel had already been removed by Schenacarib 200 150 bc avenger... him that taketh vengeance . steps..goings place of dragons...place of jackals... name...20 1 God...El. yea... surely... awake...sleepest...condescension... LORD..primitive text....Jehovah...altered by the Sopherim...Adonai. our soul is.. we ourselves are. arise...condescension... redeem ...deliver... mercies... mercys.. or lovingkindnesses to the chief musician... written by Hezekiah for his special circumstances handed over to the chief of the passover... upon...relating to or concerning Shoshannim... lillies...fig.. for spring....and spring put for  the great spring festival...the Passover. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1888  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: December 11, 2011, 02:24:29 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on December 11, 2011, 01:59:00 PM mbG:  "Kk you keep telling me that its wrong to pray the Psalms.. But 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 tim 3 16 If you want you can state that some of the psalms are not good for us. lol " K_k:  Why pray the Psalms when you can pray as Jesus instructed us to, by example and by model prayer?  We can learn a lot from David about how not to hate your enemies, when Jesus said to love them, pray for them and do good to them.  Although David did very well when Saul was his enemy, he seems to have lapsed later on, even as he did when he committed adultery and murder. Yes, all Scripture is God-breathed, and sometimes we are to learn what not to do from it, not just imitate all actions of all people in it.  So all of the Psalms have something for us to learn, but some of it is for our learning about what wrong attitudes are.  Like here for example: David:  "I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies."  Psalm 139:22 Jesus:  "“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’  But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in Heaven..."  Matthew 5:43-45 K_k:  So which will it be, mbG, praying your hatred for your enemies, like David, or praying your love and blessings for them, like Jesus? so Kk is telling me that Christ negated some of the Psalms.. so this is how you explain and apparent contradiction? Or can we make a distinction between righteous indignation and personal anger? Even the nt says to be angry.. a direct command. So if you negate the Psalmist righteous indignation then you create another contradiction with the words of the apostle... Kk always takes the easy way out. And kk creates a contradiction between what God does to sinners in the ot with what God will do with sinners in the nt. Kk stands over the mysteries of God and points the finger at the righteous. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1889  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 11, 2011, 10:24:41 AM I do not hear the ot wisdom motif from the professionals and maybe its because they embrace a kind of socialism. But the bible is clear about the desires of a mans heart from birth. It warns us in real terms of its distinct counsel to not judge based upon the social distinctive s. We are sort of given a secret counsel that we cannot explain and we avoid getting caught in the total domination of the powerful. But we must advance through grace alone.  Now grace divides all peoples. Without grace there is a declaration of war against the Almighty. A lot of people like to console themselves in a kind of love for all mankind theory. They would rather think that God thinks like them than to face the fact that no matter how successful a man is in this world there is a tendency to have an allegiance with the most awful spirits. Men do not change the world as if they order their own lives and get the profits of their sweat. But all men are what they are from birth and they do exactly what they desire. Now listen to me... sin is not the way to salvation. Sin is very bad. It is not an immoral life style but its declaring independence from God. Men are not forced to be agents of free markets by government policy. They act in a defiant way against the authority of God. No man is an independent agent of his own success. But all men live with the desire to destroy their fellow man because of their declaration of independence from God. We do not need to listen to the worlds counsel to see if there is any wisdom in it. We just need to let God speak. God has already spoken in the garden and He has declared war against Satan and His demons and children. God will not be mocked. All evil threats come from the desires of Godless men. There is no further explanation. God has spoken. It is to you own safety to listen to ot wisdom counsel. Men can destroy your soul.  Remove Reply Quote Notify

1890	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free Grace Freedom	on: December 11, 2011, 09:16:31 AM
Kk makes a distinction between steps and grace. He teaches that the steps are the agent of grace. His words are we are renewed by grace through the mentality of the steps. Let me say this ... not only does Kk miss-represent the gospel but this is a human condition in which we force God to act in a way that He never promised to in the gospel of grace. God does not advance His agenda through our time table... through our goals or through our confrontations. Now listen to me... our lust fight against the idea that all of these other things of sanctification are a by product of our salvation. In fact Kk has more than once denied that God alone does produce in us righteousness as renewal is a by-product of the reality of redemption but that God will not act apart from our allowing it to be. This is why God who declares the end from the beginning uses His own ways to be mysterious to our ways. I mean if God wanted us to be secure in the steps to sanctification then He would have clearly said that there is a way that we all can agree and i give some men authority to enforce my principles as if they were at the door of the wills of men. But God has dogmatically declared that salvation is not in man so that its not understandable to the view of man. Gods ways are not our ways because all of salvation is by grace. God must always gift us apart from our knowing it as a way advance us. So God has His own time table to sanctify us. Each person is led down a path in different ways, with different experiences, in different time tables, and always in a way that is not explainable by man. From this distinction sanctification is a by-product. There is no such thing as man helping God along to be in a new conversion. This is very neurotic and a {self fulfilling- prophecy of abuse}. The little dash line is suppose to be a figer of speech.. lol        1891  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Discipleship and Two- Line Mysticism on: December 11, 2011, 08:54:20 AM There is a lot of confusion about the powers that are within us as to our relationship with the law and the experience we have as we view it intrinsically. TL has made this experience very unprofitable for the believer. Just to conclude that the law is an instrument to lead us to Christ is in some ways saying that the law is necessary as being equal with Christ to produce grace in us. But to not make the distinction of who the law is speaking directly to is to lesson its authority and to produce a lot of self defeating fulfilling prophecies. If we have an two equal powers in the law and grace then we have no reason to be assured the Christ resurrection power has been granted to us in by imputation way rather than as a response to our responding to the law. This is why it is dangerous and a misuse of the law to take it out of the context of the covenant promises given to Israel. Because the law is not the adversary to the believer as if every time we sinned the law was that by which we are gifted with its power to keep us from sin. The problem with the human experience is that the gospel is not just an agent of resistance but its the remedy for experiencing all of the grace effects for sinners. In the scripture the law is compared to a school master or it makes slaves of its recipients. This is because we are terrible interpreters of the powers that reside in us between guilt, sin and the law. We are always under the impression that our efforts to squelch guilt are in our response to the law. But we know that all of the individual details of salvation are like individual spirits of the mind that produce a certain effect. This is why it is in reality two distinct groups of people. It is those who really embrace Gods total sovereign power and those who cannot accept our total inability. It is not in the balance between what God does and what we do but its who God is and who we are by this. Our problem is that we do not really believe that God does every thing to produce in us righteousness. But when we do not confess that God is free to do as He pleases then we embrace some kind of mysticism as the agent in dealing with the law. So who is God? But we see that God allows us to not sin as the cause of our not sinning. And we see that God not only has authority to declare all men guilty but He has the authority to withhold ability to accomplish His purposes!We see that God not only decrees our gifts in this life but He decrees our unresisting His will and falling into sin. Now this is the real struggle in the process of being renewed in this life. This is not an easy task that is given to us. In acknowledging that God must grace us with ability to choose we are clearing away all of the false powers in us that seek to force us to trust in our own ability to advance! Now then the world is a dirty pool of self fulfillment that is forcing itself for us to concede that we must take this as a shared responsibility. This relationship that we have to the powers in our souls are real communication that is resisting mens advances in threats, in persuasions, in pride, in unbelief to accept a contradiction. Once we do this we are forced by abuse to be double minded.     Remove Reply Quote Notify 1892  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: define "wicked" on: December 11, 2011, 07:27:58 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on December 07, 2011, 09:00:07 PM Quote from: mybigGod on December 07, 2011, 02:53:54 PM Kk you told me that if we reject God by not repenting or coming clean etc...then He will turn away from us until we repent. Im not going to go back and find it but this has been an ongoing frustration of mine to pin point just where you stand. Im doing my best to describe this grace and also glad that your trying to concede in some ways. I only get picky when we are talking about doctrine.. forgive me this is only one side of me. Can you find that quote?  I don't recall saying that, and i normally wouldn't.  He doesn't turn away from us, but He does let us think we can somehow shut Him out.  I try to be consistent in saying that it is not Him Who leaves us, but we who think we have left Him. You're forgiven.  You only get to see one side of me most of the time, too.  By the way, i don't feel like i am "trying to concede", since i believe in grace as described in the Bible.  On the other hand, we may need to communicate some more to see that we are both agreeing with Scripture. Biggie-pax...    This debating is refreshing my brother.... lol Reply Quote Notify 1893  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: December 11, 2011, 07:16:14 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on December 10, 2011, 01:16:07 PM If you memorize the Psalms, you also need to memorize the statements of Jesus which straighten out the mistakes David made.  Like loving your enemies instead of hating them, as David said he did. Dave was a man, who sinned and repented and sinned and repented and sinned and repented.  Like us.  Christ was a God/Man Who never sinned or repented.  Unlike us, until He makes us like Him. mbG:  "...ive done the work..." K_k:  Good reason to beware of "works righteousness"... K_k:  Good reason to beware of "works righteousness"... Kk i dont mean to be flippant but coming from you... this is hilarious. Remove Reply Quote Notify 1894  Forums / Main Forum / Re: mistakes can make you smarter on: December 10, 2011, 08:04:01 PM A lot of this stuff is like back ground noise on a radio. The more voices that we entertain about what is the standard of our performance the more we are going to train our minds to think in a circular fashion. The world is a place that is full of mistakes. I believe that people are kind of like walking images of themselves and they perceive reality in how they judge their surroundings. I do not think that people really see that the real world is not ours to control but its ours to create. But this makes people very neurotic about not having clear lines drawn. But the most honest position in a world of images is to think deeply and hold off judgement. Its to come to terms that people are not what you think they are but there is a real reason that you do not consider as to why they act the way they do that is not something you can see. People are more individual than what your image of them is.  So we do a lot of listening to the static on our performance radio. Which is a waste of time. Supernatural thinkers go outside the box and try to perceive what is going on before the idiots try to explain what just happened.. lol   Reply Quote Notify 1895  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: December 10, 2011, 01:25:47 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on December 10, 2011, 01:16:07 PM If you memorize the Psalms, you also need to memorize the statements of Jesus which straighten out the mistakes David made.  Like loving your enemies instead of hating them, as David said he did. Dave was a man, who sinned and repented and sinned and repented and sinned and repented.  Like us.  Christ was a God/Man Who never sinned or repented.  Unlike us, until He makes us like Him. mbG:  "...ive done the work..." K_k:  Good reason to beware of "works righteousness"... Kk you keep telling me that its wrong to pray the Psalms.. But 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 tim 3 16 If you want you can state that some of the psalms are not good for us. lol Remove Reply Quote Notify 1896  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: the Four Horsemen of the Revelation on: December 10, 2011, 01:17:39 PM These horsemen are judgements of God on the system of man. First that is the context of Gods glory manifested throughout all kingdoms on the wickedness of man... one is the white horse who goes out like the saints to conquer their territory. They are given a sword in which they advance the gospel. The believers are on a conquest and not just a moral edict. The second horse the fiery red one is how God responds to wicked men. It is a horse that represents Gods awful response to the evils of wicked men who use force to threaten Gods people. The third horse.. Is Gods judgement over economies. The rich rule with a rod of iron.. and God balances out the scales by bringing judgement upon them. God does this in a shrewd way. These judgements are always bringing the nations to an end. The history of the world is God bringing rich men under the domination of their own lust and destroying the wealth of nations so that the nations are no more. The fourth horse is death of the abusers of the church and Gods avenging His elect. Instead of them gaining power over the elect...God promises to bring them to a bloody end. The elect either in this life or in the judgement dip their feet in the blood of the wicked and God sends the dogs to finish up the mess...lol  This is an ot teaching. Its Gods as the avenger of the elect who cry out nite and day. What do we find as promises to Israel? That God would subdue all of their enemies even tho they were fewer in number. God deals with His church through His love covenant to Abraham. He defends the widow and the fatherless by destroying men with their own schemes. Evil men destroy one another because God turns their own schemes directed toward the poor against them. The ot visual is they dig a hole for the righteous and fall into it themselves. So all schemes of the rich and powerful are only in the end what is their own punishment. We see that God in His covenant promised gift the church with daily provisions. So that all of the enjoyments of this life are Gods gifts to us through His unfailing love. But God does not stop at just giving the elect gifts but He also promises to take from the rich and give it to the poor ones. Because God sees the schemes of man and he over turns them then takes the profits and gives them to the poor. lol. Then we see that God encourages us to order our prayers for those who are caught in the schemes of other men.God has provided these prayers in the psalms. When the righteous cry out nite and day God hears their cries and avenges his people. All of these horses are more and more clearly seen as the world gets closer and closer to the judgement when Christ will appear and men will be struck to the heart like a scorpion bite. When Christ appears He will open the abyss and out will come all kinds of evil spirits who will cause men to experience pain that cannot be fathomed. God will judge the wicked. They will long to die but death will elude them.   Reply Quote Notify 1897  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free Grace Freedom on: December 10, 2011, 09:15:04 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on December 07, 2011, 09:14:29 PM mbG:  "I do not believe in living in the mindset of twelve steps.. i simply ask." K_k:  If you look a little closer you might see that the Mind of Christ is the mindset of the steps He gave us in the Word.  Namely trusting dependence on God, not on ourselves. mbG:  "Free grace is simply Gods good gifts to us on the basis of Christ work." K_k:  God's grace is not limited to what Christ did on the Cross but includes the healings and transformings He does freely for those who turn to God in humility and trust. mbG: "The word of God transforms us to be more like Christ by longing to find the light of the word lead us to the person of Christ so that the light of His glory out of the illuminations we receive change us from one glory to another. This light of the glory is a clear communication that we are taught to live a life of prayer before God." K_k:  Yes, it is turning to God in prayer and submission that transforms us.  And it is Christ, as the Living Word, Who transforms us with the Written Word.  And that is sometimes done anonymously, using concepts and principles from Scripture without quoting chapter and verse.  Like in 12 step fellowships, for example. mbG:  "When we have found God then we are not restless." K_k:  Even after we have received Christ as Savior, there will be times of restlessness, although He is the Source of true rest.  We will not always be "abiding in Him" and so we will be restless until we do abide, again.  Natural process of growth. It's like the "longing for God" we hear so much about.  He is the One Who satisfies our every longing, yet we will have times of intense longing when we need to give ourselves more completely to Him to feel His presence, which was there all along, but we were "out of touch", not Him.  Compute? I do not trust something i know or practice to make the relationship true. Its only what His word says that makes it true. It does not pass through my will in order for it to be effective. But its effective because it dwells in me in a natural way. The only thing that His word does initially to me is that it makes me feel helpless. It defines the reality of my approaching Him and the power is in that word alone not originating from me. It brings me to be vulnerable about myself with nothing between Him and I ... no other word, no other person, no other goal of mine. It brings me to the face of God alone. I do not look to a law or a principle to define how to be transparent to Him. I just offer myself as i am. I do not feel condemned or in need to do anything..no other step.. just come and tell Him what i am experiencing and what i need. Thats all.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 1898  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: December 10, 2011, 09:01:30 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on December 09, 2011, 12:55:20 PM Well, i just noticed that the very first sentence of the last three posts are statements i don't quite agree with, so i probably don't agree with some other things in the posts either.  (But who asked me, right?) mbG, three posts back:  "Man is born to be independent of God." K_k:  Man is born to be in trusting dependence on God, not independent, but we seem to need to think we are independent from Him until our life wrecks out, then we wake up to the Truth. mbG, two posts back:  "Dont let the sun go down on your anger does not include righteous indignation." K_k:  Righteous indignation is a type of anger, which most of us aren't very qualified to handle, like Jesus was.  So we probably shouldn't let that type of anger keep us up all night either. mbG, last post:  "We are the creators of success." K_k:  Actually, God is the Creator of all success, we just get to be the instruments who often times take the credit for what He has done. I would encourage you to memorize the book .. like it says in Psalms one... the book is the most quoted ot book in the nt. You obviously do not believe there is any authority in praying these psalms.. its to your own disadvantage..... ive done the work...Kk in my opinion you are expressing unbelief.... thats all i can say. Remove Reply Quote Notify 1899  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 09, 2011, 03:05:04 PM There is really only one real Man. Every other man is only real as he is determined to have the end he has by this one Man. So in this sense anyone who is identified with this one Man sees all men as imaginations of who they are in relationship to this one Man. This is why the world is an illusion that is full of imaginary men. Because the only thing that matters is what this one Man has accomplished and what He has determined by what He has accomplished. This is why men who look successful only that way in the view of other men. But in reality any kind of success is put in comparison to the success of this one Man and it is found wanting. The only reality that we have in looking through this view of the one Man is that the only value that we have is how we know Him. The only success we understand is what He has done and what He is doing. So that in this one Man is that by which we judge success or destruction and failure. This is why He stands in the path of all men. They either bow down to Him or they have many obstacles in their way in what the bible calls the Rock that they dash themselves with and are destroyed.  What we judge in this world as success is just the digging of ones own grave. In other words all men stand in relation to this one man and what they perceive as success is sort of greasing the tracks of their entrance into hell. The bible does not give advice on how to control people in order to get to gain friends and have great success. The bible destroys mens ways and brings men under the subjection of this one Man by Him speaking just one word.     Remove Reply Quote Notify 1900  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 09, 2011, 02:21:59 PM I kind of feel like David when Goliath came with his threats and there was good old Saul laying back on his lazy boy while Israel was in danger of being taken into captivity. Be patient with me.. im just getting started. Remove Reply Quote Notify 1901  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: December 09, 2011, 02:01:38 PM I. Laying Plans 1. Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State. 2. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected. 3. The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field. 4. These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth; (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline. 5,6. The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger. Basically he is talking about a dictatorial relationship. Using the moral law in the wrong way is the most destructive way in dealing with people. The bible says that there is no one who does good .. no not one- The constitution is given to protect  the poor having the same rites as the rich. This is why as a general principle of developing success we must place people over objectives. We have the bill of rights and a constitution that gives powers and makes people independently able to defend themselves by the guarantee of their personal rites to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The constitution addresses the business relationships, the government powers ... ie separation of powers. No man has a rite to be "the ruler."   Remove Reply Quote Notify 1902  Members Only / Purgatory / The Art of War on: December 09, 2011, 02:00:08 PM I want to discuss this because it is used widely as business strategy. In my opinion this is nothing short of fascism.   Reply Quote Notify 1903  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: December 08, 2011, 04:12:27 PM A lot of people think that i am a faith word charismatic. This is not true. Let me talk about this distinction. I believe that God works through prayers as our confession states. But i also believe that God has decreed whatsoever comes to pass. This is where I am a little different than just a Calvinist. I believe that all reality is in our minds. I mean to us. I understand that knowledge of God is absolutely essential. But as Calvin states that we tend to be little idol makers. This is a terrible weakness in saints. Because every time we create an idol out of our imagination it creates a reality for us that is not true. This in turn is getting us to dwell in a double minded way. Its easy for us who believe that God is absolutely sovereign to dream about His success without really understanding His success. As i have said that all reality is like a self fulfilling prophecy. Its more than drawing the truth from the historical doctrines and thinking that we have the same experience they enjoyed. That itself is an idol of our making. Its very easy to live in an unreal world with all of this history and work that is done for us. This is why i really do not think that Calvin was teaching in a predominate way worm theology. Worm theology is simply the need to deal with sin through suffering. This dream has been added to Calvin through the spread of semi pal. Its a failure to eliminate the structure of dispensationalism that has made salvation a universal option. Its a failure to describe salvation in terms of OT covenant theo. We have played fast an loose with the covenant teaching. So this has made teaching very crude in our day. Let me say that I really believe that God works through covenant prayers. Prayers that are order in a way that go to a covenant keeping God. Not focused on how sinners gain access to a holy God. I believe in faith to reality. I believe in blessing language brings blessing to the saints. I believe that we can use ot curse language in a covenant sense. But here is where i part ways with the charismatics. God is not obligated to bless us with financial blessings because we ask. He is no obligated to answer us and make us happy. But our obligation is to think in ways that create what God wants. And we should be happy when we eliminate idol language or language that is not authorized by God. The reason that speaking to God is so important is not necessarily to get what we want but its be brought to a place where we experience transparency to God. Some people are taught a kind of  blessing to receiving. I am not describing this. What i am describing is that we must be open to God as real people and not something our family has described .. or our world forces us to believe .. or our church makes us think we are. But we must more and more be aware of who we are before God. We must come to a place where we have approached a loving Father who answers us as He really is. This is why there is success in covenant future reality. Because we get confidence and then future reality will be what we think and feel about ourselves along with something that He gives us that is too wonderful for us to make as a goal.           Remove Reply Quote Notify 1904  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Taking Heaven By Force on: December 08, 2011, 03:42:20 PM We are the creators of success. The powerful in this world uses earthly means to try to prove they are gods. But we have everything we need in One Person. He is our advocate. I dont mean in the sense that we wish out of a feeling of indifference but He stands in between what ever is in our way and our feeling of inferiority in what could potentially happen.  We have available to us a language of prayer that is so very detailed that if memorized and meditated upon is that by which we create success. We have the ultimate resisting power. Its really not something we think will be partially made available to us but it is Christ who has already triumphed. In other words His will has already been accomplished over the forces of evil.  He has gone the road of war with Satan and his children and He has declared that it is finished. This declaration is like a line drawn in the sand and prevents the devil from going beyond. Now then the cross of Christ has triumphed over all the forces of the soul that seek to bring it under the evil force of subjection.  What is it that we need? What ever we think is to our advantage. We want to be safe.. succeed... be taken to a country of milk and honey...be brought out into the most free world... protected from invaders... protected from being in fear... wanting to be vindicated in every trial and made to feel good even if we were bloodied in the battle. Now listen to me... David had to endure these wars and what was squeezed out of him was the blood of His desires for every saint! We have in our hands a hand book of arguments in the most ferocious spirit and the most damning ends that has ever been written down. We have the beginning and end of the Spirits will to advance in this world through direct communication with heaven. We have the pleasure of asking the Commander of the universe for the most absolute advocacy that is His will!! We have the prayers that are said that carry out whatever is in heaven shall be done on earth. God wants us to be brave. Hes given us the language of the most fierce warrior that ever walked this earth. David was always weaker than what he was up against. The language in these prayers are penned from a man who directed super naturalism over the world events at that time.Davids success was in the asking. Now listen to me... his opponents were like the child who kept putting his hand near the fire and the dad would say dont do that. There is a foolish attempt for all the evil children of this world to attempt to shake their fist in Gods face and make Him prove what He says will come to pass. Listen evil men are only digging their own grave in shaking their fist.    Remove Reply Quote Notify 1905  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free Grace Freedom on: December 07, 2011, 03:14:48 PM I do not believe in living in the mindset of twelve steps.. i simply ask. Free grace is simply Gods good gifts to us on the basis of Christ work. It does not really matter our position in this world because God determines our ways. But we can learn a language that frees us to find all the expression of Gods emanations in how they work in our souls. This is simply a form of communication. God has spoken and it is written down for our encouragement and success in this life. Gods word not only shows us who we are but it answers the problems we have in this life from a transformed mind. The word of God transforms us to be more like Christ by longing to find the light of the word lead us to the person of Christ so that the light of His glory out of the illuminations we receive change us from one glory to another. This light of the glory is a clear communication that we are taught to live a life of prayer before God. Prayer is like breathing. We receive wisdom from God in how to understand what we are going through like breathing in and we tell God what we want from Him which is breathing out. The more we learn how to describe what is going on the more we are aligned in our souls the less frustrated we are and the less we will trust in something else to answer what we need. So prayer in a sense is learning to breath deeply. That being to learn the deep distresses of our souls so that we will not get caught on a side street and grow in our frustration of what we need and how we pray. When we have found God then we are not restless.