Various topics 5

301	Forums / Main Forum / Re: MacArthur @ it again.....	on: April 22, 2014, 04:10:43 PM
I think ive said this many times and your starting in the middle of the epistle. There are 4 or 5 chapters prior that teach a disposition of heart before we show maturity in these areas. And some of the best men fail in some area and there is no time where we can point to a persons life and not find something falling short. This is a fast principle that those who live by the law will die by the law. This is not necessarily a truth but its the apostles wish. We must understand that the communication and not the behavior is what the scripture is focusing on. I mean a moral person could look like the command portions of scripture but their mouths are not ordered by the word of God. I really do not think we can describe on a forum what a person looks like but we can talk about doctrine. Any one can come on here and boast about his behavior and it really would not mean a thing.
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302  Forums / Main Forum / Re: MacArthur @ it again..... on: April 22, 2014, 03:50:52 PM I know its really simple. You just have a group of people and because they are commanded to be united its like waving a magic wand. But this is why I distinguish the command portions of scripture from the doctrinal. The doctrinal portions must line up correctly in our thinking but the command portions never equal exact behavior. Why? In some sense the unity of what it is talking about cannot be put in a box. It is not a result of this magic spell of the command. It is a result of all of these other things the apostle is talking about. I believe the focus is on the doctrinal positions so that we do not think in the same way about what it takes or how it looks as it is worked out. It could manifest itself is so many different ways ...according to the Spirit that causes it to happen. So I agree with RR that there is a danger here to just assume it is true of us. I never say that someone is showing me exactly what the apostle is talking about by their behavior. First because we are commanded to follow others as they follow Christ. We are not to be man centered. Ive said this so many times that we cannot trust in man. It is good to question everything. Most false religions start with a set of behaviors. If you look at the passage where the Psalmist prays Do not rebuke me in your anger or discipline me in your wrath. He goes into a description of what he is going through. The Psalmist is not atoning for his sin but he is really saying to God ... look God this is your child...its not supposed to be like this. Even tho he admits he sins yet he also says that he is concerned for his sin. Now that word concerned.... see...its a word in which the Psalmist is admitting his weakness...i mean...he is saying we both know my sin and im letting you know that I know. lol You would think that he would say that the shame is a good thing... but instead he goes to cursing those who blame him. lol You know there is a fast rule here. The rule is that those who wish the only the best for the Psalmist should be blessed. And those who wish him harm should be cursed. The psalmist does this a number of times in his penitent psalms. What is he saying? That because of Gods covenant the Psalmist never suffers a return for his sin. If God curses the wicked because they want the believer to be harmed in some way then how can God be righteous in returning skin for skin? This is exactly the word picture of this Psalm. Reply Quote Notify

303  Forums / Main Forum / Re: MacArthur @ it again..... on: April 22, 2014, 02:48:15 PM Wow being afraid of disobedience is a healthy fear. I do not agree with this. Let me give you some word pictures so that it is clear that these words are consistent with the ot usage. I think anytime we say that a healthy fear is necessary that is dangerous. There is no fear in love but perfect love cast out fear. The perfect love is Gods covenant love or His unfailing love. If you fear God then your saying that His shame is good for you. This is what two liners teach. They teach that anytime you experience fear, shame, and anxiety from sin that it is good. But the bible teaches that these dispositions are cursed. You look at Ps 25 for example. To you oh lord I lift up my soul , in you i trust oh my God, no one who hopes in you will ever be put to shame but they will be put to shame who are treacherous without excuse. Now this is not talking about hope verses treachery but Gods covenant people who hope in the Lord and the wicked who say that God is silent, you cant trust this God. Why does the Psalmist say that Gods covenant people will never be put to shame? Because Gods covenant people never accuse God of going to battle against His people. This is always in the context of national pride. It is only the wicked who see God as unapproachable and uncompromising. But here it says that Gods people will never be put to shame. Why because later on in the same chapter it says that God confides in His covenant child. The relationship is one of a Father to a child. This relationship is different from an earthly father because it is all of grace. The Psalmist says In your faithfulness and righteousness come to my relief...do not bring your servant into judgement for no one living is righteous before You. So the Psalmist is saying that Gods not gonna shame him because as the Psalmist fights so goes Gods fight. In other words it is treachery for one to abandon his commitment. If we are required to fight in the battle and not desert our position then God is gonna keep His covenant. This is exactly the word picture of how we reverence God. So what is this reverence? It is pictured as seeing the light of the glory of God. God was always out in front of Israel for a reason. He was said to be a light by night and a flame by day. This fire that is used in the nt to depict Gods destructive power was never turned around on Israel. It was always to be out in front to destroy Israels enemies. The point is that military victory was seen as the Lord of glory coming from heaven on His chariot to save His people. This Lord was so glorious that the light blinded the enemies of God. This was a picture of Gods presence ,along with His angel coming in great power. Israel experienced this power in battle. The nt writers are talking about a kind of power that we experience from our side of God working in us. In the ot the Lord instructed Israel to command Him to fight their fights. You see this in the Psalms where we have these proclamations of the Psalmist that are mixed with personal experiences of glory and military experiences of victory. In Psalm 25 the Psalmist pronounces blessing upon Himself by telling the Lord how to form his heart. How to make the Psalmist a new man. This is the way that we experience the light of the glory of the Lord. When we experience mystery we experience God working in us to do. We experience this power that is not normal. Reply Quote Notify

304  Forums / Main Forum / Re: MacArthur @ it again..... on: April 22, 2014, 08:55:51 AM Ive never been comfortable in the PC culture. Maybe because i am to argumentative and difficult. But ive always believed that the christian context starts with our interior view of the world where the means of faith are absolutely necessary as the basis of how we live our lives. So even if everyone agreed on a certain church culture, who is the best teacher, how we define our individual purpose in this world according to a very broad view or a very narrow view. Most of the time i talk too seriously about these things and find it difficult to get along in a group. What do I do differently than other people? I spend a lot of time trying to look at myself in the context of the bigger view of scripture. I spend 80 percent of my time counseling myself and seldom agree with the PC culture. Im not a two line guy. I believe that I must be loved by God in order to love others. So every ministry that has come into my life is how God has motivated me to be more meditative and single minded. I do not think that I have sought to minister to people as going in a direction just to do it. There has always been this life and death issue with me. I did not want to separate my personal experience from how God directed me. I have pure motives because it was not important to me of how successful God was working at the time. I was only motivated by God bringing more light from meditation through the way He directed me. So my purpose was to find the most satisfying rest in the most humble place. Ive always been obsessed with resting in Christ and because of this avoiding those voices that opposed my living in this mysterious calmness and contemplative disposition. I find that this is the more difficult in the PC context than just being at an unsaved function and quietly meditating. Ive always tried to do things in this world ...no matter where I go or what I am doing in quiet meditation. So Ive gone in a direction in my life where Ive been in some surprising places where Ive received the most light. Through this kind of disposition I look back and see Gods brush stroke leading me to minister but never outside of the context of my experience. Reply Quote Notify

305  Forums / Main Forum / Re: MacArthur @ it again..... on: April 21, 2014, 10:27:28 AM This matter of personal perspective words that you use to describe your view. It could be a perspective about a situation, another person, or about yourself. What is interesting is that any perspective from a view that is not under Gods words is destructive. Gods perspective of us and the world is absolutely perfect because He is the only one who speaks something into existence. This is what the Psalmist is musing about. He is in sort of a time box. All of the words that describe his perspective is in a box. But with God anything can be accomplished by one word, one breath. And so you have the Psalmist speaking to himself, and God speaking to the Psalmist. I believe when the Psalmist ask God to speak salvation to the Psalmist he is talking about time meeting eternity. Which I call mystery. This is what Paul says being raised with Christ. Whatever is pressing in in terms of time is erased by eternity. Every thing about our salvation is in word form. The word of God is the perfect application of reality in our self reflection. This is why the Psalmist says ...my heart says seek His face ... Your face Lord I will seek. So the Psalmist is saying there is this inner voice that we call illumination. This communication is in the words that are defining the perspective. Now I believe that the word of salvation that God speaks is in two ways. The first is that He speaks things into existence in our lives, and the other is that He draws near to us as if it was face to face. So we experience His presence. After many years of praying the Psalms I have experienced a kind of person behind the words. I am talking to myself with the Psalms like i am counseling myself. Since God has created us He understand the perfect order of our souls. He knows how to motivate us beyond our ability to receive it counseling each other. The Psalmist says that He trust in God alone... from God comes my honor...then he ask Why would you assault a man? Speaking to himself and viewing his opposition. I believe what he is saying that Gods words compared to mans words is all honorable while mans words are like an assault. All of Gods words are pure, reviving, making wise,giving light, more precious than gold. God orders ever reality according to His word. So the Psalmist is saying it is not necessarily our lives lining up with His word since the Psalmist says who can discern his errors? Its much bigger than our lives. Its His word that we meditate on that recreates reality. This is why he says may the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in Your sight. All of the words of scripture produce the one goal of saving the Psalmist. In this sense they justify the Psalmist desires. This is why the Psalmist prays Speak Your salvation to my soul. Reply Quote Notify

306  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Book "Face Yourself" on: April 18, 2014, 09:42:47 AM Gods anger is turned away from us because any violation of His law demands a pronouncement of death.  God has a list of all sin and every defect  In His foresight He cannot overlook every legal violation. His word demands absolute obedience. So we can conclude that every person ever born has been cursed with death and destruction. God must be seen as a judge who is absolutely just or man would be under the most dominating destructive force that is unimaginable. Since every person is corrupted God must order all things to work for good in Himself  God does this through creation and recreation. He not only brings things into existence but He orders all things to produce the good and to to be seen as absolutely just and right in His governing. We get connectd to the only good when we understand that the foundation of our trust is in His recreation and not our will. We must see God as the only one who is faithful, kind,long suffering and just. To experience the true pleasure of God we must look away from ourselves and focus on God as a covenant keeping God. This means that His recreation has its foundation on His covenant promises. God proves all of His revealed words by making Himself subject to retribution if He does not fulfill His covenant promises. We can say that Gods word is the final word as a judge pronounces a verdict. This means that our lives are not in our own power but in Gods sustaining word. We cannot trust in our own righteousness but only in Gods word. He pronounces what is true of us and we know ourselves. No matter how bad we have fallen , no matter how bad our sin is we are no longer under the power of the curse of sin. Because Christ overcame the curse apart from us. We stand or fall in His power alone. We are always defined by Him and not each situation. Reply Quote Notify

307  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: April 17, 2014, 09:51:45 PM If we are in Christ then what is it to truly experience Him? Since Christ is a person then our experience is described as having fellowship with Him. Christ teaches us to know Him by His word. But its not enough to have an intellectual understanding. We must know how to apply it. This means that what we thought was Christ was just our own imagination. We have a problem with having images in our minds about other people. We learn to observe people and describe the image according to our knowledge of relationships. We have a box that we live qin that in which there are no surprises. But Christ speaks a language that takes us outside the box. Why does Christ describe this world in uncommon language? Because He sees all the details of the image of everything.  He has spoken in a way so that no other person could speak it to other people. It is only understood as Christ opens our eyes. This language is an extreme language. He has magnified the description of our spirits by using extreme words of anger ,passion and love. The expression of our souls is our only true reflection of who we are. Through Christ extreme language we experience His words penetrating beyond our understanding of our image. Because His language goes deeper and deeper in the search of our souls we more and more know Him as we understand ourselves. He realigns our souls to work in His symmetry. Reply Quote Notify

308  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Book "Face Yourself" on: April 17, 2014, 07:59:22 PM Thanks Pete I agree God does whatever He pleases. For some reason He has decided that all that we are is sustained by Him. So it really doesnt matter what situations we go through. It only matters how we veiw ourselves in any situation. In trials the temptation is to feel disconnected from God and the purpose to make all things good that we relate to in the situation. The point is that God brings Himself glory by unifying all things to work for our good and for His purpose. Salvation is the only hope we have because it is the only plan of redemption on this earth. We never are to be left in our sin and shame. Salvation is a way to encourage ourselves to hope that the future i will be better than we could ask or think. Got to go. Will write more. Some people blindly accept that God is both 50 percent hateful in His response to our sin. That is  that we are responsible for sinning less. But God is also 50 percent of the time gonna forgive us.  But there is never a time that God does not forgive all of our sin. But this is very confusing. If God forgives all of our sin then why should He be angry at us to punish us for our sin? Its teaching one side and then teaching the other side by saying that God directs His anger at us and at the same time He loves us. Other people teach that God works everything out so that we get pleasure by His pleasure. But there is a catch. Why would you do something against God and go against His irresistible pleasure. In an indirect way they are saying that God is not angry at us but only that we did not respect His pleasure. The point is that we have such a hard time in this culture seeing Gods anger and wrath turned away from us. Reply Quote Notify

309  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Book "Face Yourself" on: April 17, 2014, 12:46:50 PM We go from being under the power of sin to being freed from sin. This is not a position where we have equal forces in us that are resisting each other ....sin and righteousness...otherwise we would need a further need to repent as if we needed forgiveness to right our relationship with God. But the by product of completed forgiveness is to act in Gods time from a disposition that He will do more than we could ask or think. We no longer are under the law as a school master. This is why we are caught in between in this eternal struggle between God and Satan. I believe that we experience the curse of sin more than the trouble that results from sin. So this meta physical struggle is the most confusing. It is resisted by the opposite of our natural inclination. This struggle with the pains as a result of the curse is from a view that the sin we experience is foreign to us. We focus on ourselves because we are weak. This means that God turns the natural means of the way success is measured upside down. The successful way is to have one person who is weak being.carried by a person who is strong. This is only experienced as the unified strength in a culture for those who communicate from the view of the curse. That is we acknowledge our total weakness as a potential. This sharing is not natural to the success of a culture. In acknowledging our real struggle with these meta physical forces of the curse rather than seeing it in the imagination of a need for further atonement we will treat the struggle as a matter of survival. We will begin to identify with the real struggle when we curse the curses. Reply Quote Notify

310  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Book "Face Yourself" on: April 17, 2014, 10:57:16 AM I am not a supporter of two line theology. The two liners say that it is equally necessary that we choose to obey as it is for God to do His work. And they say that it is scriptural for us to argue from Gods sovereignty to our responsibility and from our responsibility to Gods sovereignty. But we are taught to think that we already have been justified and Gods work in our lives justifies our purpose. Its not how you come to sin less but its how you share in the unity of Gods rest that proves your worth. Because salvation is a life in which Christ has accomplished the justified actions of His life that justify our corrupted attempts. Christ does not simply lead us but He accomplished the work necessary for us to be justified and subsequently there is nothing that we can add toHis already perfect work. We choose in freedom because there is nothing for us to lose. Even our most sinful times are turned for our blessing. God does His work by pronouncements and not through secondary means. God does not take gifts or the goodness of His creation to balance out the moral scale. He heals every creature Himself.He simply opens His hand and satisfies the desires of every living thing. He takes from the rich and gives it to the poor. He proves Himself just by judging some men as a sign that is veiwed by other men that He blesses His children. The righteous seek this sign to justify their actions. God does not make deals with us. He makes a covenant with us to prove that He is faithful, loving, merciful and kind. When we hold God to His covenant then we are free to enjoy our desires. Because all that God is ....is related to us through His unfailing love. When we experience His covenant attributes then we are able to express the justified disposition. We can only be transformed through applying ourselves to this sovereign grace. Reply Quote Notify

311  Forums / Main Forum / Re: MacArthur @ it again..... on: April 17, 2014, 09:07:34 AM The culture of the church is as spiritual as the family expresses the purity of living in the light of true authority. Instead of talking about issues that are secondary we should be busy meeting God face to face until He brings us back to our senses. Because the church can only function in a healthy way as the communication is brought along by returning to the old values of family unity. Sometimes God lets whole generations suffer because the culture both in the church and outside the church rejects the very simple expressions of submission and love. We are always required in discerning the problems to live in the disposition of mystery because we fight in the standard of life and death. There are different authorities on this earth but in Christ we have absolute authority to recreate the old ways through blessing and cursing. This Christian culture is as pure as we are able to express it to God as we uncover the powers that captivated the minds the current generation. God says "You have not because you ask not" How much doctrine do we need to ask God in faith to return us to His way of sharing in this unique way of communicating? The ancient ways. It is only as we take captive every word and make it obedient to Christ. Why would we chain the old ways of thinking to the pulpits? After all we really have no power in our own intellect. It is only in how we are taught to use His word to bring down principalities and powers. We can only act in a correct way when we accept the whole counsel!   Reply Quote Notify

312  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Does Jesus want you to go to hell? on: April 17, 2014, 08:27:24 AM It is not Gods desire that any should perish. But it is impossible for any man to save himself. When we are describing the value of the gospel it is through Gods completed justice. God searches the hearts of all men. Mens words show the condition of their hearts. God does not judge each with a sliding scale but He searches with a perfect view. Every word will be brought to account on the day of judgement. This is why when the Psalmist was extolling the transcendence of Gods word in how successful it works in the creation of all reality, the Psalmist is over whelmed by the detail of Gods law and exclaims "Who can discern his errors? In other words we do not just fall short of doing Gods will but we could never do one thing to meet the perfect standard of the unity of Gods reordering of all things. We extol all of Gods works when our hearts are brought to complete inability. In this attitude comes the success of word and Spirit. Who has known the mind of God and who has been His counselor? What man has been present through all generations? Not only is the lowest of men powerless but the rulers cease to be and are remembered no more. We must conclude in the history of the world that our success was in His right hand. It was not by our sword that we won the land, nor did our arm bring us victory. We are all addicted to our own weakness to overcome one sin. Our only hope is salvation in God alone. We extol the works of the Lord as He searches all men and we are saved from Gods judgement. Reply Quote Notify

313  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: Please Just Pray... on: April 13, 2014, 08:32:38 PM Hey tb ...i pray for your strength to endure this trial. Reply Quote Notify

314  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The church,& sexual problems...// on: April 13, 2014, 02:43:09 PM I do not like to make one sin the focus that supports a proof that we are lesser of a christian than someone who gives into sins that are less destructive. The apostle says that we died to sin and we should no longer live in it. But then he  goes on to say that what he wants to do he does not do but what he does not want to do that he does.  So he is saying that some times he choose to do good and other times he does evil. So there is never a time in this life were the apostle does not give into sin. So what is the difference between those who are still under the power of sin and those who have died to.sin? If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves. Putting these scriptures together provides us with a realistic view of our humanness. What is wrong with admitting that as long as we are on this earth we are gonna be marked by sin? The point is that those who have died to sin admit that if God should count their sin then they would be cut off from their generation. The power of forgiveness is not in self deception but in God declaration of His view of us. Where does it say that God marks the sins we continiously commit but does not remember the ones we repented of?The point is that God does not remember our sins because we are too weak to repent on our own. In other words we are granted the power to repent when we are assured that God does not remember our sin. It is only those who make an issue of the amount of sorrow that is necessary that prove they are trusting in their own strength. It is so hard for christians to make weakness equal to how much they dwell  on their own repentance. They want to make the effort the atoning for sin. But we want to look weak in order to show our ability is only in the power in Christ. Reply Quote Notify

315	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures	on: April 13, 2014, 11:06:52 AM
Christ has taken care of the sin problem in our lives. We now enjoy our relationship with God through His view of the whole world. Because the world is subject to the eternal consequences of sin then God sees us as unable to be identified as being under the judgement of sin. We no longer can go as low as the world. The standard of righteousness is so high that we could never obtain it and it is so low that we are safe from judgement. This is why God not only took care of our sin but He has taken care of the consequences of sin. The logic of overcoming sin is now reversed. We overcome sin by God smiling on us in our sorrows because of our weakness to sin. God looks at us through the lenses of blessing. Those who are caught in the depths of sin only view the world through the lenses of the curse. God blesses us by pronouncing us righteous so that we are righteous. We are only different because of Gods pronouncement. Even though we go into the valley yet we are not identified with those deep sorrows. We may experience this trouble.but.God is really smiling on us. Because God has done the work for us to enjoy this blessed provision, we now can curse the experience of being guilty. Even though we look worse than the world we no longer are caught in this low pit. We receive a pronouncement that is greater than our best times. Out of our trial comes more blessing. In this we morn over the plight of the destructive forces that have engulfed the world. 316  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: April 06, 2014, 11:17:58 AM Yes Kk, The purpose of salvation is for God to get glory through us. If we have been saved we have experienced a life in which God has completed the work in Himself. Our purpose is not how we are identified in this world but we are raised up from death unto life so that we are receiving gifts that are too wonderful to imagine. We are blessed with this new life that flows out of us in abundant joy. This life of God that makes us whole is our being blessed with His desires that become our desires. We are complete in Him so that our identity in this world is a by product of this union with Christ. We need nothing in this world to make us complete. This means that all things outside of our salvation are opposing our desires. Our identity in Christ is not only strengthened by the success of our desires but also by our opposing this opposition. Our only authority in opposing this evil is through word and Spirit. Our holistic experience is contained in His word. We are sustained by His word the same way that we live by eating food. Our sharing in His word is a continuous exercise.There is are time constraints.This means that the exercise of meditating on His word ....even though it is not continuous in the physical constraints of time ,becomes to us eternally continuous so that it defines our practice. The eternal identity defines our practice. ...Just as Gods creating everything by His word defines the value of our work by the success of our desires. Reply Quote Notify 317  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Choices on: March 29, 2014, 11:16:03 AM Yes, nice to see you responding tb... Ive been very busy lately. Its the busy season for me. But if we focus on God we will learn to trust in Him alone. All of our experiences in this life form our way of thinking in which we view the world. We learn to think in an anxious way according to the importance we place upon our own determinations in this life. But God is working in us to cause us to rest in Him. Our thoughts are not His thoughts nor our ways His ways. All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned to our own way. When we try to correct our ways according to His law we do it through being anxious according to our performance. We hold onto our problems and the bad experiences because we think we are strong enough to correct them by our own choices. We are always presupposing how God is viewing us. But God never changes and He views us as weak. For He knows that we are weak, He remembers that we are dust. The two liners teach that if we just think about our identity it will solve our problems. But we must imagine ourselves as completely weak and without any strength to accomplish anything on our own. We must see that God uses our sin and our problems to cause us to draw near to Him. When He "remembers" its not just on the thinking level. When God remembers, He draws near to us as we roll our sins and trials over to Him and leave them there. "I waited patiently for the Lord and He turned to me and heard my cry." We want to be blessed and we are not patient enough to watch God turn our sin to good. We wallow in our guilt because we only think about the positive promises of the scripture. We not only need to unburden our guilt and sin but we need to express our frustration and anger and leave that in His hands as well. We must learn how to grow down. We are never left in a pragmatic disposition with God. It is either blessing or destruction. We all desire for our relationship with God to be smooth but when we grow down we create a deeper longing to see God. We unburden our experiences in this world and experience freedom. The more freedom we experience the more our hearts are enlarged to worship and praise God. The Psalmist says I will praise you o Lord with all of my heart... I will tell of all of your wonders. The enlargement of our hearts brings us to see all of the works of God in our lives which the Psalmist describes as wonders.      Reply Quote Notify 318  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Willing Heart on: March 23, 2014, 02:18:23 AM When we are saved we are given the will of God. Our old view of ourselves is that we described ourselves on our own terms but our new confidence is that salvation is a radical transformation that is described in a way that has created us completely new. Its like God going back and recreating Adam for the first time so that He could have fellowship with Adam. So we are always saying to other people that the bible says this is what we are now and we are no longer like what we used to be. So people think we are kind of weird and out of touch. lol We now have Gods desires. We desire to know God. The Psalmist says One thing I desire this one thing I will seek" But here the Psalmist is saying that his heart is saying to himself that it desires this one thing and the Psalmist in speaking what his heart desires is showing his confidence in His one choice. Any other choice is like going awol. lol.Then he makes a bold statement that the desires of the righteous will be fulfilled but the desires of the wicked will come to nothing. So the bible is teaching this is how the psalmist confesses salvation. God recreates the world through righteous desires through word and Spirit. This is the life of God given to man when man is saved. This bold confession is like a soldier that is seeking to overcome all opposition in the activity of war. So the desire is single in this way. If all men abandoned God the Psalmist says that he would not. He swears by asking God to remove him from the earth so the he will not be remembered and his work on this earth could not go on if the Psalmist forgets Gods covenant grace. The reason that the Psalmist makes this confession is because Gods covenant promises to always be faithful, kind, long suffering and gentle is in a like confession. But Gods confession cannot be revoked ...so the Psalmist confession is made upon Gods confession. If we are to be sincere about salvation it must always be put in the context of Gods sovereign will. Otherwise we are not different than the unbeliever.   Reply Quote Notify 319  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Mark Driscoll apologizes.... on: March 23, 2014, 01:46:08 AM I agree, this is not something that is separate from the message of the gospel. The gospel not only addresses the personal aspects of salvation but we must believe certain truths in order for it to be a message that transcends all other forms of salvation. The bible teaches us that since salvation is in God alone that we must not place other people in a god like position in our lives. Anytime we present a structure of success so there is a potential that we will not fail then we will use the spiritual words of the bible to describe ourselves as the standard of righteousness. This is why the first two commandments warn us about making idols. I do not believe it is simply warning about the physical statues of the ot. But the bible teaches us how to view the world so that the gospel is seen as the power of God that brings salvation. We can even speak in a cultural way with the spiritual concepts and still hold onto our idols. This is why the bible shows how the gospel supersedes all generations. The gospel is a message that is directed from Gods view...we focus on the vertical view and the results are horizontal. We see that scripture warns us about trusting in man. We have no excuse. This is not the end part of salvation but it is the first principles. We are not learning how to distinguish between the authority of man and God but our confession of salvation is that we will trust in God alone. That is our first confession ,....its not about growth. I think a lot of times we take a simple message and put it in a package so that it makes us look more important. That the message somehow must be spoken in a way that shows we are wise. If we havent learned how to apply he gospel to ourselves then we have no business teaching it to others.   Reply Quote Notify 320  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Choices on: March 16, 2014, 12:59:15 PM This is why im not a two line guy. I do not present truth in a way that one angle nullifies the opposite view. I believe the third use of the law is Gods justification of our weak actions. I do not believe that we can say that we are weak and righteous at the same time... grace equals being righteous through forgiveness and at the same time that it is a way to be completely righteous. We are completely righteous because grace covers all of our sin not because it helps us keep the law. Having grace is standing on the other side of sin, law and death. The power of grace is that we no longer believe that we are righteous by our own works, that we can be completely righteous, and that we do not sin. The proof of grace is that we know that we cannot be righteous by our own works, that we are corrupted in every part, and that we are sinners who deserve death. The bible does not describe a third kind of relationship to the law, a third kind of righteousness and a third kind of christian death. There is only one righteousness that is recorded like an accountant. It is either real legal acceptance or a mystical righteousness according to our own standard. There is no in between. Reply Quote Notify 321  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Choices on: March 16, 2014, 12:28:07 PM Choices that we make are a result of our desire for one thing over another. The apostle says that all things have been sanctified for our use. So our choices are not in a ledger. If all things have been sanctified then to make limits about our choices is going back under the slavery of the law. To say that we are saved is to say that we are free from the bondage of the law. If we are free from the bondage of the law then we are free from sin. Every time we sin it is recorded as a strike against us. Being righteous in the biblical sense is to be blameless. Blamelessness in scripture is legal. It is to have no mark of sin. So righteousness has two angles. We look at the first view it is that we are righteous by a legal declaration of blamelessness. This means that God does not count our sins. If God has decided to not count each one of our sins then we are free to not be guilty, shameful etc. To be righteous is to stand as one who should receive the ever increasing weight of sin ...one piled up upon another. But God does not hold our sin against us ...the legal ledger has not list of sins against us. Being free from sin is not being free to not sin but its standing before the law of God as guilty but we are released because sin is forgotten. The other side of this view is how we hate correctly. If we hate ourselves we would view every choice as a list on a ledger. This is the same thing as gaining acceptance through measuring ourselves by the law. But our love for God is not necessarily displayed in obedience to the law but believing the gospel. I mean we are sinners who wish the weight of the law to fall on anyone who thinks they can be righteous by the law. Anyone who is righteous apart from Christ displays the curse of the law by embracing the law as a guide. Every time a saint comes before the law there is always a confession that they do not keep the law. This is equal to the desire for the whole law to fall upon those who gain their righteousness from it. We push the curse down by cursing the cursed way to be righteous. We love the law because our desires are Gods desires. Our success is not because God is so holy that we are required to be confounded by his holiness but He comes down to our level ..that is His covenant faithfulness is to prove Himself on our level through allowing and preventing. The freedom that God gives us is that our choices are His choices. Because we want to save our own skin ...that is the desires of our flesh are not intrinsically evil. His purpose in our lives is Him sanctifying all things to give us the most opportunity to achieve the highest success. Reply Quote Notify 322  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The sin of covetousness on: March 10, 2014, 09:47:32 PM Mark that was a very insightful post. Since Ive moved from Florida to South Carolina I feel like ive moved back in time. I am enjoying my freedom once again. South Carolina is one of the most conservative states in the union. I feel very fortunate to be with family again and to be comfortable. I feel like ive gone back in many ways to the security of my childhood. I would never have dreamed that my life could get to this full circle.  This is why I really believe in praying the Psalms.  I believe the Psalms can create a kind of fantasy world. The Psalms describe the language of the world. They describe wicked cities, kings who rule harshly, judges who do not protect the poor, and fools who prosper on the backs of the poor. The creative stroke of the Psalms is through the view of Christ. They are written to reorder the inward reality of the Perfect Man. So they go beyond human institutions. In describing a kingdom society we feel one with the King. It is best understood in the verses that speak of Christ coming through the temple and judging the nations ...which judgement was completed in His death and resurrection ...and at the same time He blessed His people to the point where He took and will take the captives to heaven to rule with Him in eternity. But we find that the experience of this created reality is now as if we were in the presence of the King as He addresses the corruption and destruction that is going on in the world through pronouncements and curses that sort of makes us feel we are in an eternal house with our King granting us this utopia that is too wonderful for us to imagine that starts now. Every day He is leading the captives out of trouble and distress and taking them to an eternal secure place that will begin with the final judgement of Satan and evil. God allows and prevents through His creative pronouncements. We repeat these curses and blessings so that in cheering Him on we experience a kind of Fatherly care. We actually feel a part of an eternal family that is safe in His refuge. He uses the forces of creation to judge the nations and bless His people. Im not a young guy and Ive seen a lot of Gods creative strokes of the brush over the years as He paints my life portrait. Meditating on the Psalms gives me a more clearer vision that has become part of me. The experience is like a child playing in a park. If I believe it thats all that counts.   Reply Quote Notify 323  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Practical how-to tips? Holy Spirit. on: March 09, 2014, 01:46:05 PM I believe that Christ was talking about a general attitude of overlooking faults in people for the sake of the gospel. But in the world we are gonna have trouble so its never in the context of receiving ongoing abuse.But in the christian community we are never to entertain an accusation against a brother. I do not think it is dependent upon situations of falling into sin but we are required to pray for one another so that we will not be ensnared by the Devil. And this means we are required to kill the flesh which is to put it to death...that being we must push the curse down. The flesh is not necessarily evil. By killing the flesh i mean we are to be active in making an eternal case by glorifying God in our own causes. When we are saved we receive renewed desires. The bible says these renewed desires are not from self denial but they are for our own success. We no longer are divided. We have the kingdom dwelling in us. We have the same identity as David. We must always overcome all opposition. Our mandate is contained by creating words and pronouncements in Gods word. These are eternal prayers that go beyond our personal space and time. They create success as God sees our way.  So we are involved in destroying destruction and allowing blessing. This is the mandate and all the other practical counsel is secondary.  By learning how to pray in wisdom we are presenting our case for success in this life that has eternal consequences in the next. We are coming to the throne of God in prayer in this life in a growing personal interaction that brings us greater rewards and authority in heaven in the next life. These desires are the most personal desires because when we went from death to life we went from wandering to having a single purpose. We want as much power, wealth, and authority as we possibly can. We want to rule all things. Our rewards in heaven far surpass our desire on this earth. We rule by going from word to Spirit. From the physical sensations to mystery. We lose ourselves in the curses. The curses are the only way that we can cease to exist so that there is no explanation of our success other than Gods mercy... we cannot even explain our view of ourselves in any law form. There is no fear in love ...complete freedom drives us to go beyond ourselves.    Reply Quote Notify 324  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Practical how-to tips? Holy Spirit. on: March 09, 2014, 12:25:59 PM Quote from: Lone Arranger on March 09, 2014, 11:10:07 AM Quote I know that we are supposed to submit to God, but I don't know exactly where the concept of yielding to the Holy Spirit comes from. Bplayer, my first impulse is to state the obvious - that the Holy Spirit IS God, but you know that...right?  There are many versus that state this in various terms.  I think the one that most captures what I was reaching for is Gal 5:16, "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh." I've been thinking/wondering if what we are here to do is die.  As the Christian song goes, "I lay my life down to die in the hopes I might arise."  Of course in Christ we have already died, but in sanctification - the Christian walk to the grave in hopes of the blessed resurrection - is our goal to die to self?  If yes, then does it matter how it comes or who brings it? MBG, isn't the most abusive person, clearly wrong in the way they treat us (such as governments that persecute Christians), just as useful to bring about death to self as anything else?  If so then perhaps it's wrong of us not to yield to the abusers.  As Jesus said, "If they strike you on one cheek turn the other."  This is especially true if we believe God controls every aspect of our lives.  But do we...believe that, I mean?  Clearly we have to act, and that is where the confusion lies.  We might believe God feeds us, but doubt it would happen if we didn't get up and go to work, for example.     I would not support any form of abuse. I do not believe that abuse necessarily starts from obvious threats.  In the bible an abuser is not just a "fool" but it is also from the "self righteous". In fact if you study that ot you will find that this distinction is clearly laid out in the description of a person being named a "sinner" or on the other hand having the personality of a "dog". When the bible describes a person as a "dog" it is in the context of someone who devours everything on the streets even the scraps. So the description of these two kinds of abusers is in how they use the law. Abuse in the bible is very simply bringing an accusation against a righteous person. But this is kind of upside down to how we view legal righteousness. In this case the accused is clearly wrong and the case against them is legally justified. But someone comes forward and takes their place. Not only is there a substitution but the defense argues for their innocence. I do not know why God has turned His system of eternal justice upside down but He has decided that abuse is making an accusation against a person who deserves to have their sins counted... one by one against them...but this judge decides that He will not count them. So the legal charge is against those who accuse. lol Try to figure that one out. You will find this throughout the Psalms that the only defense a righteous person has is that their sins are not counted by God. So in this sense what looks like justice on the earth is actually abuse. Why? Because the world is a place were men make a culture in which the power they use over people is through their reshaping and restructuring their own laws. Its kind of like being placed in a society in which the cards that are handed to you are stacked against you. It is abuse that is on auto pilot. The bible describes abuse as not just changing the laws but changing the moral structure of the culture by the language of threats and promises. So we are caught in a battle between God and Satan. A more detailed battle and beyond our pay scale. I really believe that the gospel is not just personal freedom but political and social freedom as well. Reply Quote Notify 325  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Practical how-to tips? Holy Spirit. on: March 08, 2014, 12:37:27 PM Yes that question comes from the two liners. It goes something like this. God has perfect anger that can be trusted. But we have a mixed anger. We have self serving anger that is mixed with righteous anger. Because we have selfish anger then we cannot trust our motives in a situation. I mean to me this is kind of controlling in itself. Because everyone is given anger to express that in some sense is correct. How do we avoid playing God by saying that a person cannot trust their anger in a situation because there's a 50 percent chance it could be wrong? If everyone is divided between good and evil in any God given emotion then no ones experience would be of value. It would be a matter of who describes their view of the situation as to how their anger proves everyone else anger is selfish. The bible teaches that anger is a gift from God and is a righteous response to injustice and evil. The essential question is not whether it is selfish anger vs Gods anger but what is a persons doctrinal view. Because anger is an expression of the denial of one truth for another. The truth is that we should if we are true to ourselves would die for our beliefs. So in this sense every expression of how we view the world is either worthy or unworthy. So the million dollar question is if anger is this prevalent in a hidden way that is a response in every person to being rejected then how do we deal with it? God is not surprised that our anger is drawn out of self preservation. After all we are not angels who experience eternal life as if we are floating around. lol Everyone experiences anger not just Christians. Its a human emotion that is given for us to survive in a fallen world. Any thing that God has given should not be a matter of our cynicism or personal control. If we fear our anger then we will use it for our own destruction. To always be wondering whether the anger is justified or selfish is the same thing as to question whether we are forgiven completely. People do not like to teach that Gods anger is hot anger. Rather we have been taught that God who is in complete control has anger that doesn't lash out. He just chooses one thing over another. One vessel is fit for eternal life and the other for destruction. And so man digs his own hole. But i believe God uses the curses of the law as an expression of hot displeasure that we do not understand. So i believe that Gods anger is like a deep well as an expression of turning evil to good. I do not believe we know completely if our anger is justified or not. That is up to God but the more important question is what has God done to deal with our anger and how can we use it for His glory. God does not think in gray areas. Everything is in black and white. And it follows that God in giving His law has expressed in the curses a requirement of death for not upholding it. God does not grade on a curve. There is only to sides of the law. Either the law condemns us or it justifies our actions. Because we do not speak the curses we assume there is a gray area. We assume that we can control our anger. We express our anger according to our short sighted view of history. We use use the expression of anger as if we are caught in a process. By our culture of learned words and expressions we give people more control than we should. We seldom see anger as an eternal declaration of death. This is why we are not serious minded. Thats the problem with being pragmatic. Its like selling our souls to the highest bidder. The bible calls this making the powerful our idols. We hear how they rise to the top and we admire their success and power. But the bible compares the activity of money to buying and selling of our souls. Because everything we believe about God and ourselves has a price. So we must kill this cursed connection between money and the quality of life. ill stop here  Reply Quote Notify 326  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Practical how-to tips? Holy Spirit. on: March 08, 2014, 11:14:13 AM I think Gouda brought up a good point. Its hard to be in a trial and not have it hanging over our heads so to speak. Which i believe there is a level of self talk in a christian that is on auto pilot. We are creatures of habit. I do not think we can live in a world were we do not experience life without our own view. Which is how we describe a thing as to the level of color we experience in our view of physical phenomena or meta physical experiences. So in this sense everything we view is how we describe it in words. Every description of our view is determined by how the powers of things and ideas affect our disposition. So I do not think that our physical experiences have the necessary powers that direct our level of anxiety. But we fight against spiritual forces in the heaven lies.  The language of these forces is our spiritual connection to the curses. It is at this level of communication that the bible addresses. I could imagine Adam and Eve thinking they had perfect control over their circumstances and their happiness that they drew from the fellowship they enjoyed. So in some sense the danger that lurked was the elephant in the room that they were not aware of. That lack of understanding of that communication in terms of words of warning were not part of their view of reality. This is what the word of God does. It deals with that level of inward communication in overcoming these meta physical forces through our familiarity with the curse of sin. I guess this is why salvation comes out of the language of war. Its being aware that there is a certain level of danger from being hunted by the voices of the curse. Through the word we are responding to the presence of these cursed voices so that in the trials we feel Him smiling on us. This is why we use these pronouncements and curses as protection.    Reply Quote Notify 327  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Practical how-to tips? Holy Spirit. on: March 07, 2014, 12:14:56 PM La i am the opposite. Naturally i do not have a reactive personality. It took me many years to develop a side of me that is just mean enough for me so that i dont turn my hate inward. I speak the negative part of the Psalms. As ive said that anger is a gift if it is under the control of the word of God. Whether God gets pleasure in anger i do not know but because He has made us to search for truth He has given us a perfect way to approach Him with human feelings. I think because we have such a high description of the beauty of God and all of the positive promises we become imaginative about what we are going through in this life. Im trying to say there is still a lot of joy and pleasure we can draw from in being human. Without living in this other side as a human we begin to hold the negative experiences inside of us. You will find this in people who always talk as if Gods wrath is directed toward them. You know that its easy for us imagine we do not have a human disposition of feeling sorry for ourselves because we simply tell ourselves who we are in Christ and that should solve the problem. But its good to develop some street sense. We can describe the christian life in the most neurotic ways.The bible doesnt just help us to reckon ourselves to be something we are not but it gives us an avenue to unburden our pain. So for us there is pleasure in anger in some sense. If we use the anger to describe a future where Jesus will be the judge. Anger is good if we become passionate about Gods work. In this sense for the sake of being the person with the problem that we created but in need of placing it in Gods hands we can play the part of the neurotic personalities that play out before God. You know the old adage that a cop is the closest to becoming a criminal. For every neurotic reaction there is an emotional reaction that is correct. And so we seek to find the correct reaction through a mysterious transference of our pain for His dis positional reality. If we are emotionally connected to Gods reactions then it will swallow up our neurosis.    Reply Quote Notify 328  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Sinai Cov . . . A Millstone on: March 07, 2014, 11:28:22 AM This is the center of conflict that we see in Gods history of redemption. It is man using deceptive tactics to plot against Gods perfect word. How does man try to erase God from history? Man describes a universe in which God does not exist. Man speaks in the most subtle ways so that everyone will believe that he is an object of affection. Why does man hate God so much? Because man is born with the words of rebellion and hate. The bible says that men spend a lot of time creating an image of success. They plot on their beds. Because God has already ordered every event and determined the whole course of the world, He has described part of  His work of redemption in His revealed word. But God creates success by turning events for His purposes. This is why man is so blind. In a sense there is nothing that man uses that is powerful enough to thwart Gods purposes. God simply turns mans evil against him and works it for the good of His people. So there is this hidden language that orders all things that goes on in the secret places and hearts of all men. It is almost a subconscious communication in response to Gods communication of reality. It is an attitude of control verses the mysterious success of Gods word. But we have been given words that are not natural for us. We have been given declarations of Gods success that are pronounced upon us that create a right heart. When we speak these declarations we rise up to see the light of the glory of God. We are standing on His word as if we were standing on a rock. Reply Quote Notify 329  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Sinai Cov . . . A Millstone on: March 07, 2014, 10:59:16 AM I think we must distinguish between Gods covenant as a husband of Israel and the seal He placed upon His elect to do according to His covenant promises. I think we fail to understand covenants because we take them out of the context of Gods comparison of them of the exact created words that gives ability and prevented death. This is intended in the phrase "I will cause them to walk in my ways". Most people argue from a two line perspective. They say that Gods side is absolute in His covenant faithfulness but man is responsible to act according to the covenant. But the ot teaches that God created all things according to His word. This speaks of Gods ordering all things according to His way of speaking. God creates all things according to His wise counsel. The order of all things...reality itself .. is God speaking everything with exact words. When we are talking about God writing a covenant it is in the context of Gods perfect order in all things by His perfect word. It is more than a document that had promises but it was His display of His faithfulness, kindness, long suffering, gentleness, and grace that has created perfect order from the beginning of time until all things are fulfilled in Christ at the judgement.  This covenant language that orders all things as being created by Gods perfect words is displayed in salvation. Salvation is simply God speaking to us at a point and time of fulfilling His covenant in us by doing the work necessary to fulfill the covenant from our side. God cannot accept our way of speaking since we are corrupted and we create idols by them. So He must give us the complete order of His perfect word as a true description of who we are now but will be made complete in the future. This is what we call Gods work of renewal that is ordered perfectly in us by His word. This is simply all that is contained in our salvation. Let me say that our image is already perfect before God. It is not perfect in the sense that it is something that must be completed from an imperfect description of us but it is already perfectly described by God and that is the only real image we have. We possess the absolute description of our perfect image that will be made complete in the future. We already are complete but we are waiting for our final completeness. This is a legal declaration. Every word of God is legal. It is His perfect will on display through His perfect law and covenants. With God everything thing is either blessed or cursed. It is either not guilty or guilty. Because God produces His disposition in us that is a perfect description of all things by granting us salvation. It is by His sovereign grace. We receive everything in this life as a gift. This is His perfect description of the relationship that we have with our Father through His perfect created word. It cannot be reordered or thwarted.  Reply Quote Notify 330  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Practical how-to tips? Holy Spirit. on: March 06, 2014, 04:13:10 PM We cannot change anything about our circumstances or ourselves through what we accomplish. The problems of the world and our own problems are how we view them. The reason that I believe that everything is created is because I have a big area of freedom based upon Christ absolute rite to do as He pleases. If nothing can prevent Him from accomplishing anything then we are free to be as free as He has accomplished everything that is necessary for all change. So it doesnt matter how you identify the problem or address it but everything that happens in change is based upon timing. The bible calls this walking in the ways of the Lord. We have been given many gifts from God. We are given the means of faith. Bible , prayer, church, fellowship and breaking of bread. The means of faith are the horse that pulls the cart. The means of faith are not equal with the action of faith. The bible teaches that we should practice the means of faith in an eternal way. Praying always, meditating on scripture nite and day, and being a part of a society that is a spiritual connection outside of time and space. The reason the bible uses these activities without constraining them to limits of this world is because they are the ongoing creative expression of Gods painting of our lives. God did not just create the world and leave it but He recreates everything.  We are like artist. An artist expresses himself in his art work. The fullest expression is how free he experiences the creation as a representation of the happiness he experiences in his work. If the Spirit has set you free , you shall be free indeed. We cannot walk in righteousness unless we experience freedom. The means of faith are how we rise up to God and experience mystery. Mystery is our present view of the beauty of God. We experience the streams of life as it were flowing out of us. So we cannot completely understand the depths of life that we are experiencing. Not only is this mystery a present view but its a future view as well. We experience life that comes from the future. Every day is a new created day. This means that we experience a new freedom as we approach the future. We rise up in mediation of His word from one day to the next and it builds a life in us that is too wonderful for us to imagine. When we walk in step with the Lord it is an experience of the eternal varieties of another world.