Various topics 7

361	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: R-rated Theology and Gematria, Another "Seed and Serpent" Thread	on: February 11, 2014, 10:54:27 AM
We are talking about two different kingdoms of thought and communication. They are the words of peace as opposed to the words of war. Gods kingdom on this earth is absolute power and rule. There is no room for division in Gods way of communicating. So every word of God unifies all reality in the spirit of peace. Every other word creates disunity and does violence to Gods kingdom. This is why salvation is expressed in scripture as a total elimination of evil through crushing the enemy through the absolute balance and symmetry of Gods throne. Each word of God is a revealed word. Each word is connected to the other words in absolute power of God that is expressed in His , laws, decrees, statutes and promises. There is no beginning of Gods creative words. They are eternal. We say these words are life giving as an eternal seed that is implanted and germinates into life as the cause of the existence of all things. In seeking God and finding Him we find all things put in order and symmetry in our lives. This is expressed as God refuge and is the peace that passes all understanding. The Psalms are Gods way of recreating all opposition through the implanted eternal seed. The seed is the recreation of reality. The seed is our total salvation. God causes good through creating forgetfulness and remembrance. The only reality is in the memory of God which is the eternal seed that is His spoken word in His eternal counsel from eternity past. Our salvation is our past being consumed in Gods eternal counsel. We recreate our past as we see our true identity in the counselb of God. We speak the re creative words of God that bring us closer and closer to Gods power to bring all things under His control. We experience the eternal powers of salvation as all things are unified in our lives by Gods eternal word.
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362  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: It is Because of My Sin... on: February 06, 2014, 08:50:31 PM Ive been meditating on scripture morning, noon and at nite time for about 30 years. This is more than an exercise but it becomes a vision. So ive prayed about certain things for years. Because i know the difference between a good spirit and a very sweet spirit. I usually meditate out loud. It is my observation that the most difficult sins and problems that we experience are gifts to us. Because they motivate us to a level of passion that we could not create on our own. After many years of facing big obstacles and ongoing sin I use these two experiences to find a sweet spirit. So the question is not what kind of change has taken place because of some spiritual exercise but how to experience the greatest pleasure from the your Achilles heel? If you can turn all of the ugliness of yourself into a beautify spiritual vision then nothing could harm you. This is what feeling invincible is about. Its seeing yourself clearly and accepting yourself wort's and all.I used to seek the sweet Spirit but now after so many years of having hours of experiencing this sweetness i do not need to meditate to experience Him. You know that guilt, shame, and fear are like heavy spirits that weigh us down and prevent us from relaxing. They are like armies that attack us and we feel worn out from the battle. How can we face the initial onslaught of this weight but turn it to our advantage? I believe its being encouraged in the gospel to the point where we feel the weight of the glory of it. The value of it. Like being saturated with water to the point were our skin is shriveled up In meditating out loud for many years i experience the pronouncement of the word. as if I am painting a picture. It is followed by this sweet spirit. It is motivated by good and bad circumstances. Everything that we go through is essential to creating this picture. This vision of Gods glory. The Psalms are like the brushes that we use which is every thing about us both physically and spiritually to say things that reorder our future experience. They are the instruments that create this beautiful picture. This vision of the most pleasant interaction with things and people of our world. These different motivations both bad and good are like the colors that make the picture vibrnt and unified. I really believe this is how Gods grace is suppose to work...its not suppose to be a constant self refection of us. Reply Quote Notify

363  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: It is Because of My Sin... on: February 06, 2014, 07:56:34 PM I can feel your struggle, brother. Let me encourage you that I have a lot of problems but it doesnt reflect on how the success of the gospel has impacted my family. Gods always uses broken vessels to accomplish what He wants because we cannot share in the glory. The apostle had the same opposition. He was saying that God works good out of our failure and our sin. So the people were claiming that the apostle was encouraging sin by saying that in order for God to work good it was necessary that we sin. Its funny because the people who bring the law are furious when we are always giving grace. lol I dont mind being the one who appears lenient. I simply remember how the apostle was treated. Grace covers all our sin. We want to sin and the only answer to this problem is grace. I know we like to think that grace is gonna make us better. Its not meant to be put on a charge account. When we measure grace it ceases to be grace. The thing about grace is it really simplifies out lives. We hear all kinds of ways to sin less. But the truth is there is only one solution. We need the gospel of grace. Our sin produces our need for Gods grace. When we have a deep need we do not think we are deserving of Gods great gift. If we tried to say that we can cheapen grace then we are saying that we can make grace valuable. But grace is only valuable to people who need it the most. And its the worse sinners who need it the most. So we are on the apostles side. We hear how we encourage sin. We defend sinners. Our only response to them is no one deserves grace so everyone is obligated to give grace. The greatest lessons that I have learned about Gods grace is through sin that i continually commit. Because the sins that i stop give me no reason to need grace. So i cant figure out if i sin less or His grace has become greater. I just know that i am less judgmental to myself and through this His grace becomes sweeter. Reply Quote Notify

364  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: February 04, 2014, 01:33:53 AM Ml...I dont think we can deny the necessity of disaster and destruction because God implanted in the reaction to things we can control or cannot control. Its not necessarily evil to be in the presence of evil.We are not evil because it is dwelling in us. It could be natural for evil to be present in our understanding of it without our reacting in a way that is unnatural because of it. So in some ways the wrong reaction to events is a result of how God has created us but it is miss applied. Some very good intentions can become very destructive. This is why i dont think in this way of do not touch, taste or look upon. Because the presence of evil is not viral but its a temptation based upon a lack of knowledge and understanding. So i believe we are dealing with something that is created in our lives where our desires are opposed where we may have good intentions and those who oppose us may have good intentions. The temptation is to create evil out of the reactions. In some ways all sin that is practiced is done with the intent to survive which God has gifted to us. But there is a difference between planning evil through forethought or doing it out of weakness. In my opinion through much very detailed meditation i do not believe that a believer can go in a way of evil that he can be trapped in destruction. I believe that in some ways only God knows the amount of evil because God has seen all the desires of all creatures from the beginning of time. I believe that the creation of an evil image of a person pre deposes them to act evil. This is why i make a distinction between the presence of sin and the physical temptation are not the reason that we give into temptation. When we are talking about the psychology of addiction we are thinking about tendencies through prior learned dispositions , genetics and doctrinal application. I believe we are set in a course of life as if we understand the image of a man in a vision of redemption. So evil is something that is like our physical diseases. It is created in us through as low as the curse goes. In my opinion the voice of the curse is" he trust in God let God deliver him". Its the temptation to think God has left us all alone. I never even think in a two line way. More than the presence of evil is the tendencies we have in this inner war of creation. Blessing verses cursing. This is why we are given words like create in me, keep me from, do not let their desire prosper..etc. We are facing a spiritual image that is mysterious to us in which we need daily wisdom that is exactly what is necessary to lead us out of bondage to the old image and into the freedom of the new image. We ask but God creates both by intuitive messages and clear illumination. I believe the path of destruction is set as is the path of blessing. So the path determines the success of the new creation and not visa versa. I like to meditate ,being challenged artistically to get a fresh understanding of events and through prayer to create through words given by God the future success. Reply Quote Notify

365  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: February 02, 2014, 04:58:04 PM Quote from: beacon2 on February 02, 2014, 03:33:47 PM Quote MBG This is why the curse is so effective in killing our flesh. As you see it MBG, is the "curse" or "curses" something that God is directly involved in and causes to happen? More Details 1 of 25 Ive been saying that we carry a familiarity with the curse. This is a communication that is oppressive and obnoxious to enjoying our interaction with all that God has made. In this sense we experience constant opposition. Some people miss understand and confuse the communication of sin with the curse. Ive been saying that some people think that we grow through a process of looking at the law, experiencing guilt and turning to Christ. But i do not think this entirely correct. Because the presence of guilt, blame, and fear are what we were cursed with. Christ has not only taken care of the sin problem but also the consequences of sin and the curse of sin. The professional theologians say that David went through the experience of a crisis of faith because of sin and upon confession he experienced joy and peace. But ive been saying that David approached God with complaints that had to do with his inner experience as he confronted the curse. The bible says that men who are born in sin oppose God through the communication of idol worship. In opposing God they opposed Gods king. David was confronting this opposition as describing their desired to destroy David. This communication is present in all men. It is through blame, guilt and fear that is described in the bible as the process by which men scheme against Gods people. This paradigm is the opposition of grace that is designed to curse God. This cursing God is what the nt writers were saying was forbidden. This desire to curse God is developed from one generation to another through the cultural norms, and the example of men who rise to power. So we can say that after many generations Gods people face greater opposition to God by experiencing the developed scheme of the other generations. We begin to lose our innocents. The love of many will wax cold by just being part of the society. This opposition is like being hit with a blunt object that stuns us. God has given us the curses of the law to experience His anger toward this paradigm of being bullied. It is the language of protecting our hearts and creating success. Reply Quote Notify

366  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: February 02, 2014, 02:01:54 PM We need to understand that level of mystery because it is the legal justification of words. Every word is judged by God. But I do not think its just the physical words on a page. Its the spirit of the words as well. All the words of God are unified by the spirit of one word. We must think in absolute terms when we are describing the legal position we have before God. Because a false word spoken is to defect from Gods kingdom and to threaten anyone who holds to the true words. This is why the doctrinal words in the ot were part of a courtroom argument to make war with the nations. So this biblical progressive revelation is in the context of a christian facing a problem that is universal and has eternal consequences. Its Gods pronouncements of guilt to the nations. We are placed in situations in life where the problems around us become our problems. This is why Gods justification of us is absolute. We are saints because we are declared not guilty of treason. It is Gods absolute pronouncement as an argument before the judge that we are justified by grace. Christ uses grace to prove our innocence. But how can grace be valuable if it just makes Christ work magnified without our enjoying the effects of it? I suppose that i am describing the difference between apples and oranges because we are not intrinsically good. This is what is so hard for us to focus on. Its not how we come to find acceptance with God but its His declaration that makes it so. Now then we are in this position of innocence before God with complete freedom. Any concession of this position is a weakness of faith. This is why we live and die on our confession. We will not fail! It is so mysterious that we say prayers of desperation as a wish to be separated from men even tho we have the same weaknesses. Because our legal justification is not a logical argument but its Gods absolute pronouncement. We show allegiance by standing on every word as people who do not deserve this grace. This is why we pronounce curses. We could never enjoy this freedom as tied our entering into this relationship through intrinsic justification. We do not belong to ourselves and in seeking to distance ourselves from our former self we declare something that is far from our ability to perform. The furthest from us is the absolute declaration of death for breaking the law. This is why the curse is so effective in killing our flesh. This places us in the position for using grace to justify our actions. Without grace we cannot come boldly before Gods throne. Grace gives us a relationship with God were the words become reality. .God in declaring us not guilty places us into a kingdom where He has declared the nations guilty and has put all things under His feet. We are now in reality fully accepted before God at the time of our salvation. We now become what His word has already declared about all things. We live in the realm of recreation as we pronounce His legal words. Reply Quote Notify

367  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: February 01, 2014, 02:55:09 AM Ml this is why i believe in the curse. First of all the political ties are always religious. And ive been writing for quite awhile using arguments that David presented. I have no authority to use my own arguments. But Hitler is an example of a society spiraling down into level of corruption and destruction that is as low as Sodom and Gomorrah. The argument that you use to compare christian obedience to any authority because God is somehow using Hitler to do something good is from the other side not mine." Can a corrupt king be allied with You, one who brings on misery by his decrees?They ban together against the righteous and condemn the innocent to death!" This is a Psalm that starts out..."Oh God who avenges rise up and pay back the proud what they deserve!" You will never see God smile on evil rulers...never! This is why we have it backwards. God is in heaven and His view is on the gods of the earth. The apostle says that the demonic activity of the earth is in the high places. As you move up the ladder of society your decisions affect a lot more people. Ive memorized some of the books in Revelation and its eye opening to see the level of spiritual activity of God responding to evil nations on this larger scale. You look at the beginnings of a nation and you marvel at how quick it has become an evil machine. Swallowing up the poor and lowly. Ive been saying this for a long time that God is not simply choosing things arbitrarily to prove that He is absolutely sovereign. But He orders events to fall out in a universal response. Ive been saying that christian communication is how a peaceful society functions. The bible mandates are not just for the christian machine so to speak. Its Gods way of keeping the peace in society. So God has a much different measuring stick than we do. He sees the hidden communication... the back room deals... the hateful slander..etc. Corruption and destruction to not spread on its own. It is devised in mans heart. This is what the apostle says that the tongue can set hell on fire. He compares the tongue to an army. But no evil has been spread because men have a choice. It starts from desire. A desire to replace God. A person who is simply political is a god unto himself. Just leave men in their natural state and they will rule with destructive methods. This is why God adds the curses to the law. The principle is like this. The king has a cup..it represents his authority. God fills it up. It is all of the political success and power that he gains for himself. It is so tempting and sweet that the king drinks it down. Down to its very dregs. lol What is this idol worshiper drinking? Its the cup of judgement. Thank God that we are not even close to that kind of potential of judgement. Reply Quote Notify

368  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: January 31, 2014, 12:55:14 PM How can we justly hold sin against some if we sin? It's like claiming that something doesn't exist when it's clearly visible. Isn't it like saying that someone is crazy because they see things that are not there? It's claiming there is a universal culture that you are exempt from. This is what the apostle was saying. Who can bring a charge? The point is there is only one Person who can judge! But this creates all kinds of questions about the value of a righteous standard because God is not the party that is in between the accused and offended. If in fact God is the only one who can bring the two parties together in perfect harmony then the is gonna be a lot of frustrated people. This is the core issue in the need to survive in this world. I mean that men can act as arbitrators but they will seldom build a consensus of unity. In acknowledging the helpless state of men in sin we must fall back on mystery since we do not understand God's judgements.  But are we caught in a helpless mystery until the day of judgement? If in fact we have a need for forgiveness or retribution to be justified in God's standard of the symmetry of His ability to bring all things together then our need of His presence is to experience His awful judgements because our pain is swallowed up by His protection of us being equal to His punishment. Reply Quote Notify

369  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: January 29, 2014, 04:00:14 PM Quote from: morning listener on January 29, 2014, 01:30:24 PM Thanks for your thoughts MBG. One of the problems in all of this, indeed for Christians more so than "Pagans" is that we so often regard, read and interpret the bible in ways that can gradually make us stupid and dangerous at worst or disengaged, apathetic and lazy at best. For example, it is common for Christians in, say, political discussions, and I have even seen it in this forum numerous times, to quote scripture and say that "God uses politicians and evil tyrants and various leaders for his ultimate perfect ends". Sure it may be somewhat scriptural but how many consequences of this line of thinking can you count? One of the side effects of believing, uncritically, in a "perfectly just" God, "perfectly inerrant and inspired scripture" and extreme constructs of grace where everything is inscrutable, unknowable, out of our hands - up is down, good is bad, love is violence, life is death, innocence is guilt, - where we have a "relationship" with a God who acted in history and condescended to us in our low state of being but yet we are left with profound dispute, debate, cognitive dissonance and confusion about what to do, how to act, how to view "outsiders" without being idiots and so on, - indeed, even how to be "saved" is that we aren't ultimately responsible for our thoughts and deeds and need to be freakin geniuses and spiritual giants in order to get our story, thinking and behaviour straight. Yes i think we can limit Gods responses to us by talking like He is so holy that He will do anything to teach us by not giving us what we want. I do not know what it is about us but we are always saying something doctrinally correct about God that is a little extreme or it leads us to dead ends. Then we call that Gods sovereign rite to treat us because He is always hiding. I mean it really is our view of relating to God that is like self talk. We put boundaries on God that are not part of His design in our lives. Especially if we have a strong desire for self fulfillment. You know its always described as Gods timing, what He thinks is good for us, and we must accept His answer upon a certain time of asking. So we limit God by being cute. lol But God created us to be charmed by people. Through communication we begin to focus on the other person. Everything about reality is having relationships through a created connection. All of this is through relationships that make us a different person than we were before. Something another person had was given to us. We may come out of it with a better understanding of our gifts and our enjoyment of other peoples gifts. But we somehow think that God is so established that we couldnt appease His sense of equity and giftedness that He would impart to us by our communication to Him. Im thinking of the passage in James where it says to draw near to God and He will draw near to you. The question is can we have this special relationship with God where He is moved to give us what we want? Ive been drawn beyond my experience through the expressions expressions of David. We always think that if we act a certain way ..that is we are taught to revere God that He will be good to us. But what happens if God is outside our box of what we think of joy, anger, peace, and rest?What if He is charismatic? We do not normally think that experiencing the highest joy and praise ...not just in a spiritual way but being worn out physically would be charming God. But we find that Christ expression in prayer resulted in drops of blood. There is a sense in which God searches us out through a more profound experience of the human emotion. Ive prayed in a way where I do not believe it would make another person think i was in my right mind. Ive been drawn out through David in such desperation and anger that only God could handle it. I believe that we have not found the depths of the passion of Christ who presented His arguments with strong cries. The more I express myself as I grow older the more weight of the expression falls on me. This is like being poured out like a drink offering before God. The passionate expressions result in the experience of these eternal verities. Sometimes we feel swallowed up in God. Its like your closest times when you were in the presents of someone who listened you felt a oneness in the relationship. It could have been a long conversation in which you experienced a closeness that you never experienced before. This is what it is like to talk for awhile with the eternal God. The weight of your passion is mixed with the weight of His glory where we begin to live in the eternal realities. Reply Quote Notify

370  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: January 29, 2014, 12:43:35 PM I agree to some extent ml. It looks like a godfather mentality. Take out the opposition to the family cause. And i saw the movie" the Family" with Robert Deniro. This is what was comical about the sense of justice. You know you have been wronged and everyone who is watching understands the story line about your rites in a situation. Why not act to justify yourself sense God is absolutely just and the action is god like? See now this is exactly the proving ground of the difference between the christian world view and the pagan. Its not denying there is no rite to justice like most people who believe in universal love of God. But the difference is who acts to justify. Its not denying there is no need for justice but its putting it into Gods hands and acknowledging His absolute rite to do as He pleases that defines the christian. This is what is so illogical about mans reasoning about his own power. He will not acknowledge Gods sense of justice because he lowers God to act one way. So if God acts in a universal love then its easy for us to play the story teller rather than actually become the defender. So in this sense we are no different than the mob because we are still acting in violence against the offended. We are still trusting in our own sense of justice and taking action according to our own definition. The truth is that all men describe justice according to their own view of their pain. So we all seem to be hypocrites both believers and non believers. We all can laugh at the movie the Family because this is our human experience. But this is the difference. God acts alone to justify all things. Because if He doesnt go to the highest level then He cannot have the authority to answer and reorder our own sense of justice. We could never approach God who made us legal thinkers. He couldnt act outside of our arguments. I mean some people think of God doing what we think is just as a terrible end of situations in this world. But the bible makes God the person who is most concerned for our human experience by creating our wholeness in listening to our hypocritical sense of justice. He sees our frailty and is not overcome by our anger. Instead He takes it first and then replaces it with His love. God is not saying ...i cant look on your sin and hypocrisy. He is saying that He develops a relationship with us through our wanting to save ourselves. Because God acts alone in justifying everything we are the opposite of the mob motif. And yet we share in the human feelings. Reply Quote Notify

371  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: antinomianism on: January 29, 2014, 12:14:40 PM The other side will cry antilaw for me writing this but i promise you its in the book. We are no longer defined as "sinners" in the legal sense. We are defined as saints not because we obey the law but because we are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. This kingdom is not giving with one hand and taking with the other. It is one purpose. It is how we describe this salvation that gives us the kind of identity that we enjoy as Gods sons. It has nothing to do with proving we are what God has done! Rather the result of salvation is to do things we do not naturally seek after because God must act before we act. We no longer are guilty before God. Yet we sin. But since we are no longer under the dominion of sin God deals with us as dust. To describe this grace as the power to obey is to deny that its by grace alone. Its like saying that you give me a gift but then you define how i am to use it. So no one gives up control. lol But God actually gives us grace upon grace because we sin. The success of Gods grace is that you cant extinguish it through you own image of what you describe as righteous. God controls our image because we give up control to force someone or coerce someone into giving with one hand and taking with the other. We are always gonna sin, the apostle says we died to sin...then he goes on to say that what he wants to do he does not do..present active indicative. What is the only thing that saves us? Is it our wanting to not sin because grace forces us to obey or is it that we have the freedom to sin but because grace covers it we enjoy the pleasure of God over the pleasure of sin? This is the standard of our saint hood. We now have a new name. Christ has not just done the work to give us these things. But He provides the success from beginning to end by doing the work of redemption before we do it. We fail in every deed. But the Father looks on Christ and accepts us not just because we are perfect in Christ but because He sees us as we are in our human frailty. In other words He is not surprised by our inability to act without trying to save our own skin. He has come into our skin and provides us with a language that is transparent so that we survive by trusting in His lowering Himself to our level. This is why we sin but we always acknowlege that we are troubled by our sin. This is confessing that we do not deserve to come into His presence by we wont lose our confidence to achieve our purpose. We are gonna come boldly because we know the sin is a side issue. This is how the Psalmist approached God .. period. Reply Quote Notify

372  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Thinking about junking Christianity on: January 29, 2014, 11:44:19 AM g mang...lol... why would you describe a God who is schizoid? It is in your own best interest to think of God as good in all that He does. Because in attacking Gods disposition you are creating a disaster for how He created you. After all if God is like a drunk father then He cannot be trusted. How many people enjoy growing up with a parent that reacts in these extremes. Ive seen unsaved people with better control over their outlook in life. Why not just replace your use of God in your writing with a "drunk father"? To use God as your scape goat for describing an evil character in a story is to your own harm. If God is not good then it is essentially committing intellectual suicide. Without Gods love we are all hopeless. Why would anyone be opposed to the universal spirit of a love of the ultimate father? Even if they did not believe in God? Its more than an evil attempt to hurt someone. Its a general lack of respect for the order of society. If we all do not work to produce love in family then the world is gonna be unbearable to live in. Reply Quote Notify

373  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why does OT make God sound like a nut? on: January 29, 2014, 11:14:02 AM We must understand that if God did not respond to injustice then our personal experience in the culture of the world would be lowered to the the worlds anxiety. The world is a rough ocean but God has cursed the destructive forces of the evil by sealing man in his sins. He does this through giving man what he wants to increase his guilt for greater judgement. Gods line of justice is our experience of rest! Let me repeat this...Gods line of perfect justice is our experience of rest. This means that God is more than an arbitrator of how personal salvation is experienced. But God orders every reaction in a creative fashion that produces and effect that proves He is good. He doesnt act in a way that He is the opposite in the same situation. He doesnt prove His love by His anger. lol God speaks salvation in opposing the curse with a curse. God proves His goodness by emanating life through His saving presence. God at all times is absolute in His declaration of our innocence! We no longer are under the curse. We have been gifted with all things and are receiving our rewards unto the day when He will wipe away every tear from our eyes. Reply Quote Notify

374  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: January 29, 2014, 10:41:51 AM When we are saved we go from being blind to seeing clearly. We are completely made whole. In this we receive Gods desires. We are recipients of Gods order worked out through His authoritative word. We no longer are under the law as if it was our schoolmaster. We now are legally at peace with God through justification. This works out in our ongoing reception of salvation. We were saved completely at one time in the past but we are also being saved in an ongoing way. Our enjoying ongoing salvation is reflected in Gods wonders of taking us from death unto life in its full completion. Now listen to me...our problems are not how we overcome these fundamental attributes of our former experience in blindness. We now reflect the success of Gods description of who we are in this world. We are not in need of further renovation of our will. We have died to ourselves so we no longer belong to ourselves. We have been brought into a kingdom where we are caught in between the eternal forces of good and evil. The problems that we face go from a personal experience of death unto death to being in a kingdom where the evil that we face is beyond our pay scale. God speaks a language of life and death. He is not pragmatic. God has already scentenced the devil to eternal punishment. He has already done the work that separates us from our familiarity with the curse. He does not need to force compliance as His need to rule. He simply speaks His eternal word and it is done. Now listen to me... His word of recreation is never spoken out of a need to prove that He is God. At all times God orders things in His perfect understanding of love and anger. God doesnt rise up to respond in anger. He simply declares innocence or guilt. But man experiences a more complex world. Because we are corrupted in every part. We do not enjoy perfect order in our souls. We experience powers that bring us into a relationship with the curse. Guilt is not a mixture like a drink that we pour out and receive grace. It is a power that is deadly and it speaks a curse. Grace is Gods cursing the curse. It is God overcoming the guilt in us through speaking life to us. It is Gods legal declaration of innocence in which our accusers have spoken death to us. God must oppose the pronouncement of death which is the accusation itself. If you want to know the difference between cursing and blessing then memorize the whole book of Psalms. I speak from this understanding. Reply Quote Notify

375	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Adam's Headship !	on: January 29, 2014, 09:53:22 AM
The making of man was part of Gods perfect governance over all creation. Some people paint a picture as God creating man to test him in the covenant of works. But God acts in a perfect order that is worked out through His heavenly beings that is reflected in mans governing the earth. God made man to rule over His creation. In this sense man enjoyed a fellowship with God as a king would order his subjects. Throughout the history of redemption God raised up a kingly authority to rule over all nations. Adams headship is seen in king Davids ruling authority. This means that mans relationship with God is worked out through a redemptive process that places man in a ruler-ship over his particular realm of influence. If we conclude that Adam was in an inferior relationship with God we are saying that God created something that was less that His standard of goodness. We hold to Gods authoritative structure caused in creation to be seen in His absolute promises in His covenants. Man rules his environment through an eternal set of attributes that are mysterious. In order for Gods word to have weight and authority we must conclude that God never lowered His standard of goodness or judgement in how He placed man in the position of authority. We are more than just moral agents who prove that God is righteous by being tested. We share in the present kingdom in which we will receive our rewards in His future eternal kingdom. We will rule in the new world. Gods purpose in creating man and all things is to show that He is always faithful, good, kind and long suffering. He gave us eternal powers in which our desires are the kings desires. We know our true identity when we paint a picture of Gods holiness as seen through the eternal gifts given to man as the measure of respect due to him. As I have been saying God can handle every man holding God to His covenant promises for the purpose of enjoying personal salvation. In this sense our personal causes that are worked out in time through the imperfection of- mans system are as real as we see God move us in and out of the potential danger of other men who are traitors to Gods protection of us. We enjoy authority that is beyond our pay scale. It is contained by Gods word and Spirit. 376  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: antinomianism on: January 29, 2014, 01:59:20 AM Cont. When we push the curse down we experience strength in weakness. The gospel causes us to glory in our weakness. It creates a true culture of unity. Because weakness is created in us and not something that gives us a sense of wholeness. We experience weakness when we see the mystery in the gospel. Our unity is our experience of the true powers of that are in the spiritual world in contrast to this world. When we experience this unity of all things we are experiencing the mindset of this timeless christian unity. This is why we sense being in the presence of another christian having never met them. But this is the power of the gospel. It hits us from both sides. It attacks the opposition and provides us with the holistic experience of our souls. The gospel is the only agent that can uncover the hardness and under gird the the deepest recesses of our souls. It is the agent by which God searches us. We see things that are spiritual. We are like the person who is sitting at the table of a big feast and enjoying the reality of all the different taste in our eating. The reason there are impersonal experiences in this world is because the gospel is seldom applied enough to inoculate people from their false sense of self. Reply Quote Notify 377  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: antinomianism on: January 29, 2014, 01:23:23 AM Its natural for us in defending a righteous standard to uphold it in convincing man of sin. So we automatically believe that the gospel is a charge placed upon man for doing the wrong. In talking about the gospel it is very easy to speak in a way in which we want it to be a strong message. Its easy for us to make it appear that the gospel is a message of the past when we are giving a testimony. We are spiritual beings not just people who get convinced by a few words of the gospel and never have another doubt about it. So the gospel is a message that changes our spirit by freeing us in reversing our logic as to how we think of work on a daily basis. We approach life by meeting goals through applying ourselves to a task. But the gospel is a message that is outside of the any culture or norms of society. Nor is the gospel equal with the biblical mandates to preform. Whatever we put as equal with the gospel of grace nullifies grace. So we really experience something that is backwards to the way the world approaches life. The gospel is the only message that produces true freedom because it is more than a standard or message to follow. The gospel gives life. When we understand the gospel we become free through a spirit of rest. The gospel creates the only inner working through desire that gives us a personal understanding of who we are before God. We naturally do things for reasons that are not based upon reality. Outside of the application of the gospel we are really dumb. We become motivated by guilt and blame that cause us to trust in powers that motivate us that create in us false imaginations of who we are. But the gospel frees us because everything we are and have are given as gifts. We now have desires that we can trust. We can trust that all other powers are seeking to enslave us. This is why the gospel is not just a positive message that gives us a sense of freedom. But it provides the bases for us to push the curse down. It is not just a passive message of reception but it confronts all false imaginations. The power of the gospel overcomes all opposition. Reply Quote Notify 378  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why does OT make God sound like a nut? on: January 26, 2014, 12:08:40 PM We need to understand that any words used or reaction to a circumstance that is not just is an act of violence against Gods goodness and mercy. This is why there is a form that comes from spiritual awareness that we cannot understand. There is a true form of the spiritual image in things that evolve and of the true reality that unites all things to His purpose. This is our view of Gods throne in which we acknowledge our lack of understanding of what He is purposing to bring all things under His power through His laws, decrees,promises, and statutes. We must conclude that Gods mercy, love, kindness, and faithfulness His working out through these spiritual forms that the true images of all things that mysteriously work in us that we describe as God dwelling in us in His fulness. Because all reality both in this world and our view of this world is Gods communication of us as if one word was connected to another through the true forms of Gods image of all things. These forms are not just our spiritual image but also our human transparency. The true form of our human image is our communication with all things that are experienced as being united under Gods image of all things. This language of God is always absolutely just. This is why our expression of the frustration of our lack of understanding Gods purposes according to the true nature of things cannot extinguish Gods language that brings all things to life or destruction. Instead of denying that these perfect human forms exist in us-that complete understanding of our purpose as the total unity of our experience of reality...these forms exist in us that are more destructive or life giving that codify the results of the curse when the mystery of our transperancy come together with the true reality of all things. We experience through word and Spirit the connection of the unity of the just words of God. This is our experience of being transformed from one image to another. Reply Quote Notify 379  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Hyper grace ? Too much grace ? Nonsense. on: January 21, 2014, 06:01:25 PM I agree there are basic rules in ones occupation. But the occupation is part of our moral universe not just part of a secular system. So there are questions that must be answered on a larger scale. We do not originate our own identity in our occupation. It has evolved to where it is at through a form of communication since the beginning when God gave us these different societies. The purpose of any endeavor is not just drawing the enjoyment out of that occupation. It is a system where the goal is the reward. It is not really how the system is developed. Morals do not originate in a process but are presupposed. We can say that all movement toward the goal is for the ultimate reward. The performance is based upon identity not upon the modal paradigm. So the moral is how one views himself in the performance. Because everyone understands the world according to his own view and presuppositions. This defines the value in the performance that gives one personal value. The world is really how one views himself in his job. We live in the world in our own minds. Reality is defined by communication and it is originally from revealed words. Communication is the evolution of society and culture. This is why everything that transpires since the beginning of time comes into time because of Gods spoken word. The world is run by a creator who recreates reality in time. Our success is based upon His creation of us and His purpose in the use of our personal qualities. There is no thing or event that does not originate without a moral reason. God orders all things through His statutes, decrees, laws and promises. God recreates every thing for the exact purpose that He made them. He makes no mistakes. Reply Quote Notify 380  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why does OT make God sound like a nut? on: January 20, 2014, 09:04:07 PM Its good in the mysterious way to run from ourselves. You know I was thinking today while driving in the blue ridge about a Psalm i memorized a long time ago. I like to meditate on Psalms that are parallel to my present experience. When I lived in Florida i used to meditate on the Psalm about a storm. But this Psalm actually reverses the light and dark argument. You know we are always talking about light exposing darkness. But this Psalm is using the distinct ability of the mountains to block out the light so that you see a very pure line between light and darkness. It is saying that God who created the mountains is as near in His covenant protection as the mountains ability to turn the day into the darkest shade on this earth. The shade is compared to Gods protection of us. I think that people love to use the light to expose the sin and weakness. But the bible says that God actually prevents us from being harmed by people knowing all of our sins. We have lost this art of rolling everything over to God . And upon putting it into His hands we leave it there. That includes our continuous sins. Do you know that its a sin to expose sin if we havent dealt with it at the cross. Its a sin to make man equal with God. To say that man is essential in forgiveness. And this brings me to the mystery of the shade. We do not like it when driving in the mountians we go from bright light to dark shade. We do not see as well. But this argument that God is eternal is that He never changes in darkness or light. He is always the same. The truth is that we do not like to live in mystery because its a place that we cannot control. We have it all wrong about this mysterious experience when God becomes so big that we are totally lost in wonder. But its this mystery that washes over our souls and causes us to start from a position of innocent trust. We are brought to trust in the hand of God rather than just the words of promise. Reply Quote Notify 381  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Hyper grace ? Too much grace ? Nonsense. on: January 20, 2014, 05:19:04 PM I know this temptation to say that too much grace needs to be balanced out with our discipline. The apostle doesnt say that grace is a license to sin. But He is asking the question why should we sin if we have grace. But the apostle is not arguing that we must deny ourselves because grace is valuable. He is saying that we have a changed identity. As I have been saying God has totally sanctified us without us doing one thing to add to it. The question is if we have died to sin then why should we live in it any longer? Then the apostle goes from a potential in us because of our identity to say that what he wants to do he does not do. To sum up the apostles point. He is saying that we already as believers know we are sinners. We do not need to be convinced that we are bad. We have gone beyond our frustration of the law condemning us to knowing by identity that the law is speaking on our behalf. The judge has now become the lover of our souls. Who is he that condemns? Who can separate us from the love of God? Instead of the question of grace frustrating our denial of ourselves it actually gives us confidence that we already know we are sinners. Dont use grace to convince yourself that you are not in the position of receiving it. Our arguments are for us to prove our innocence by a common ability to understand that we are sinners. We apply the grace for the purpose of increasing our hope that we already have been made perfect in Christ. This is what I see in the question of abusing grace. These people argue from a greater to a lesser potential of living in grace. Its as important to ask faithful questions as it is to believe that grace covers all our sin, even the willful sins. Why would we stand in the accuser position if we stand in the confidence that all that we have of salvation was given to us? We did notdeserve it. Believing in the equality of Gods grace and our responsibility is like trying to play the prosecutor and the defense counsel at the same time. Its schizophrenic. Its circular reasoning. Grace is free as long as its not abused. If it is abused then there is no grace. And around and around we go. We know that in a just system the accused does not half to testify against himself. Why would we be so foolish in the christian context? Reply Quote Notify 382  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Hyper grace ? Too much grace ? Nonsense. on: January 20, 2014, 06:19:38 AM Cont. Why does God not hold us to a reflection of Himself in order protect His free expression of grace in relationship? Why does He allow us to express ourselves to Him in an unholy way? After all grace is the experience of being without defect. I mean its more then knowing we are free because of forgiveness. Its experiencing the freedom as if we never sinned. We react when someone responds to us negatively. Why would anyone need to be concerned and respond with anger or fear if everything was ordered by God for our good? Where is the presence of grace in relationship if it is not defended in our responses? But Gods defense of grace beyond our defense of it. So grace is God giving us the ability to experience the line between love and hate. We love grace and we hate hypocrisy. And yet the expression of our hate for hypocrisy is hypocrisy. But God has given us the perfect emotional responses of Christ in His word. Part of the overflow if grace is being able to identify it and understanding the necessary attitudes of it. We are dependent upon grace for our survival. God gives us a gift in words that we express to Him that leads us to a passion to understand the value of this grace. If we do not understand grace then we will not have a remedy for sin and we will be without hope. So there is an enemy of grace in us that wants to control us with threats that we do not have grace. The core of this is anger. If we just loved grace and never defended it then no one would know the value of grace. But if we did not respond with grace then it would not be grace. Yet God in lowering Himself to us gives us the perfect personality of anger and love as the perfect defense of grace and the perfect love of grace. We have been given the words of Christ expressed in scripture the work in us to refine grace and to increase it. Yet we pray Christ prayers and yet we are imperfect. But God is gracious to us and allows us to respond with sin because He knows we are weak. We unburden our troubles in a most selfish way in order to receive what we do not deserve. At the core of our being we love ourselves too much to not value grace. Reply Quote Notify 383  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Hyper grace ? Too much grace ? Nonsense. on: January 20, 2014, 05:22:55 AM Very insightful RR. Im gonna read this again. If we put value on grace then its no longer grace. So its like marriage. Our partner is a refection of ourselves. If we respond in some way toward them its like reacting to ourselves. This is why free grace is so important. Because when we put a price on grace we are in bondage ourselves. This is so hard for people to come to terms with. How can God respond with blessing when we sin? Its like thinking in an upside down way. Why does God allow us to sin over and over again to teach us about grace? It doesnt make sense to our value system. Why does God carry us when we are able to do it but we dont have the strength because of something that is broken in us? After all everyone is responsible and should work. lol Its so hard for us to see that all of what we are is a by product of grace. We want to think that something  that we have is deserved. This is the standard by which we measure how we view our own control. It is so hard for us to develop that core of appreciation in which grace becomes sweet to us. Its overflows in us. Everything about us is expressed in a personality. Its our reflection of what is going on inside of us. The apostle says that presence of grace is this wonderful vision of Gods power and love. You know when we are dealing with the personality of anxiety and worry. It is like another person living in us that controls our thoughts of something that will harm us in the future. We exhibit signs of stress as if we have been threatened and under obligation to someone or else. We get overcome by the personality of fear. We feel the pressure in our heads rising and we retreat into ourselves. We are so easily led astray from grace. That grace that is like a spring of life that flows out of us. This is the measurement of how we know God. Gods presence is His grace overflowing in us. Because where God is present all things are made good. So grace is our experience of fellowshiping with God as a friend. Its knowing the biggest guy in town and being proud that He is very fond of us. Because as big as God is to us is how great His grace is to us in our personality. We are always trying to define grace. But how can you measure Gods grace if it is Him giving us whatever we need and whatever we want that is beyond what we asked? If we really understood Gods grace we would really really believe there was nothing that could separate us from His eternal love. And so we always revert back to our fear, anxiety , and anger. But God responds with grace. And yet we try to present it to others as something we got for obedience. Go figure. lol Reply Quote Notify 384  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: God is love -- in both Testaments on: January 19, 2014, 09:11:06 AM Kk Any time we divide Gods salvation we lose our own freedom. In the OT God made a covenant with Abram not only to bring the gospel to the world but also to bring success to a nation by delivering them from their enemies. When we divide the gospel we limit God to act according to His goals or ends in saving His people. Salvation is the goal of everything we do in our lives. Salvation is in God alone so that everything is accomplished by God and is gifted to us for our deliverance. God has promised us that if we meditate on His word that we will experience His success. His word is not just a tool that instructs us but it is Gods creative way of bringing all things under His power and rule. The word is the only means by which we can understand ourselves and God. We are not defined as incomplete souls that need to have something added to us. But we are experiencing Gods creation of all things both in us and outside of us that define our personality and our culture. Our salvation is accomplished by Gods ongoing spoken words of deliverance. This is why God enables us have a mindset to live in the unseen creative reordering of all things as we grow to understand his word and use it for our own success. We are confident in something that is so simple that it seems foolish to man. The simple gospel words are the only words that are well spoken. In understanding the goal of deliverance, the means by which we are delivered, and the extent of all that is neccesary for our deliverance, we use Gods word as an instrument for recreating our own bad to good. We do not live in a word that needs to be changed but it is a world that has been cursed and needs to be delivered and recreated. All of Gods works that we view are called wonders. Not only is salvation a wonder in terms of bringing someone from spiritual death to eternal life but everything that is recreated in our lives is from the same power and authority that regenerated us. God has gifted us with faith to experience our vision of what is already given to us , that future full salvation , as our hope to see each deliverance in this world. In this gifted vision we hold God to His covenant promises. We use the word of God as the instrument to recreate everything through His promises. Our response and passion that is directed through these words well spoken in prayer draws us into fellowship with Him. He has made us to reflect all that He desires by our responding to Him. Reply Quote Notify 385  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: God is love -- in both Testaments on: January 18, 2014, 12:28:49 PM I am amused a your description of Gods relationship with the nations of the ot. Kk is always interpreting scripture from an neutral interpretation . Lol But there are presuppositions that must be applied if we are to interpret a single verse. Because we know that the scripture is interpreted by its near and far context. This ot Context is unified in the worship book. There we find a wholistic description of God with His covenant people. The relationship is described as a Father to His children. Even tho all men are part of Gods creative acts yet His children enjoy a purely loving response through His covenant faithfulness.  Been busy will continue. Reply Quote Notify 386  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: January 16, 2014, 05:51:27 PM Yes the" I wills" of God. If you look God makes promises in His covenant to Abram, David , to His prophets and to His elect in which He swears to His own harm if they are not upheld. So Gods children enter into this legal relationship when we come in the name of the Lord. A lot of people teach that our position as being under the protection of the name of the Lord is simply having His power and authority in a submissive relationship. But the law goes further than a demand for compliance. It actually defines mans relationship to God in how it works. The law pronounces death upon violators. So our relationship to Jesus is more than a family one. We are justified to the extent that we are blameless. Because we are definitively sanctified when we are saved we stand completely justified in His sight. We live in the mindset of already but not yet. The reason that Christ is now our complete substitute... not only in the atonement paradigm but also in a defending relationship. We are declared righteous in the court of heaven. So we not only have a loving relationship with the eternal Father but we also are at peace with the eternal Judge. Since we are loved by God then the Father is our Judge. Some people have this romantic idea of Gods love as our Father. They only speak of it as a feeling we get from being filled with the Spirit. But the legal side of this relationship prove our Fathers love in actions toward us. This is what the curse is all about. Our experience of this love relationship is through Gods legal justifying words about us. All Gods words come to us from a pronouncement of not guilty. This is His promise that we are no longer under the curse of the law. The apostle says who can bring any charge against Gods elect? It is God who justifies! Who is he that condemns? Being blameless in Gods court is to curse anyone who has an accusation. Its not necessarily a violation of a specific law. This is why our being saved from the curse is to be on the side of Gods covenant " I wills." The wicked are defined by God speaking a threat to violators. Gods threats are to the cursed. But we stand on the other side of the curse and we cheer Gods threats. In this blameless relationship we curse the cursors. I mean according to how God has written His word for us to use. Reply Quote Notify 387  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: January 15, 2014, 07:37:43 PM I do not understand your point. This section is not about curses.. can you explain? Matthew Henry's Commentary Chapter 27 The Lev. 26:46 seemed to close up the statute-book; yet this chapter is added as an appendix. Having given laws concerning instituted services, here he directs concerning vows and voluntary services, the free-will offerings of their mouth. Perhaps some devout serious people among them might be so affected with what Moses had delivered to them in the foregoing chapter as in a pang of zeal to consecrate themselves, or their children, or estates to him: this, because honestly meant, God would accept; but, because men are apt to repent of such vows, he leaves room for the redemption of what had been so consecrated, at a certain rate. Here is, I. The law concerning what was sanctified to God, persons (Lev. 27:2-8), cattle, clean or unclean (Lev. 27:9-13), houses and lands (Lev. 27:15-25), with an exception of firstlings, Lev. 27:26, 27. II. Concerning what was devoted, Lev. 27:28, 29. III. Concerning tithes, Lev. 27:30-34 Reply Quote Notify 388  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: January 10, 2014, 07:06:26 PM Gods program is always the same. He doesnt divide the earth up and say Im gonna allow democracy here and let the system define culture and im gonna be the king here and rule from my throne. He created the world with His throne being the exercise of His will by His righteousness, judgments ,covenants , laws ,statutes and promises. God decrees all things before they come to pass. Mans systems are very pragmatic. Man reasons that it is equally important for us to be saved as it is to obey the law of God. But we know there is deception in each one of us as to our standard of obedience. But God looks at the world and the system of man and concludes that there is no justice or equity. I mean He is not saying that His own family is at fault. Because God must overrule the decisions of man He must deliver His own from those decisions. While God is the judge of all nations He remains a Father to His children. The world is not made up of two equal propositions. Gods law always does exactly what its suppose to do even tho it seems that men do not obey it. Gods law condemns sinners. What do we conclude if we break His law? That we deserve to be cut off from His governing protection. As I have said that no matter what government you are describing it is still God still God overruling by governing. Its impossible for man to distance himself from being a moral agent by creation. This moral agency is the described as a specific language that forms a culture or world view. This is why we believe that since Gods word ordained whatsoever comes to pass so also through His word all things are renewed. God has a specific order .. or culture that He creates through His word that overrules mans words. In this way He governs all time. One of the ways that God governs is through the curses. God upholds His children. This means that God is compared to a man in the ot who stoops to the earth, puts his feet on the earth as a pedestal, holds His children in His hand...forgiving hand and a hand that goes lower than the lowest trial, sees the injustices of His children as if He were a man standing before a judge arguing for their innocence, uses His hands to heal our wounds, and walks before us doing all the work necessary for us to survive and be rewarded. So God is not just governing through a spiritual organization but He is in the worse places and lowest experiences ...as low as the curse can go. This is why God speaks as the king of Israel. Because He has absolute rule on the earth. He says that He provides food for His people, He causes them to remember His wonders, He takes the wealth of other nations and gives it to His people, and He establishes the family lines that will rule in righteousness. So God as ruler judges the wicked but He rules as a king to His own as a Father. So when He addresses the nation of Israel it is because there was wicked people who set up idols in His place. This is why you see Him admonishing the nation. In the understanding of the difference between cursing and blessing God never destroyed His children for their sins. But the wicked loved their idols as the evidence that they were cursed. Reply Quote Notify 389  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Curse or Consequences? on: January 10, 2014, 05:41:03 PM LA This is the sticking point between those who believe in libertarian free will and those who swear by God. I do not want to get into a doctrinal difference because ive written so much about this. If they were judged because of their disobedience alone then we must conclude that they had the ability to obey the law in themselves. So the question is did the disobedience thwart Gods will? If we say that it was Gods design to make the demands and hold the people to them then who could stand before a perfect standard? I mean we would create a world in our own minds where no one could meet the standard of righteousness while they are imperfect. That means that no one could have confidence before God. And if God holds christians accountable for their imperfections to His standard then what difference does it make to try to please God? We would be in a worse position than the pagans. At least they do not attempt to please God and do not need to deal with the skin for skin judgement as a result of their lack in meeting the standard. The truth is that a pagan does not even know there is a God. It is expressed in their willingness to go to scripture and seek God. If there is no evidence of spiritual appetite then there is no desire for God. In this case they obviously live for themselves. Why do people argue for their own righteousness if they do not even desire to seek God? This is the million dollar question. Its not just a blindness but its insane. Its obvious they are a law unto themselves. This is why the bible talks about the difference between a person who desires to seek after God and a person who has no reason to seek Him. But it also teaches that everyone in the human race is unrighteous. The teaching is that if God were to hold anyone to their sins then who could stand! But the difference is that a person who has a desire to seek God knows that he cannot meet the standard while the unbeliever doesnt really care about this God. The question is who can approach God on the basis of their own obedience? Who can teach or say that his obedience is commendable before God? If we conclude that we could not meet Gods standards then its only those who know it that are righteous before God. How can we be righteous and still practice sin? Because we know that we are righteous in Christ. Those who know they are righteous in Christ are gonna conclude that the standard for themselves because Gods judgement is that if He decided to judge the world at any time then all evil would be removed. So if God does not endure sin or sinners then what do you think He would say if we come into His presence at any time ...any one in the whole history of the earth? He would curse us. But as believers we cannot be cursed because Christ became a curse for us. That is the only hope of our acceptance before God. In Gods world it is always cut straight. It is either life or death. He cannot look upon sin with pleasure. Its an oxymoron. Reply Quote Notify 390  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Hearing the Voice of God on: January 10, 2014, 02:40:10 AM Cont. This is controversial. How does God end sins reign? By destroying sin and the imperfect thing. This is an expression of Gods anger toward the destruction of His creation and recreation. The bible calls this Gods pronouncement of death. It is a curse. Gods redemption is both giving value to a thing and the protection of that thing. In God is the perfect understanding of recreating the bad to good. All of the creation and recreation are the total expression of God in words. He must give value and perfectly protect through destruction. Christ emotion life is the expression of this perfect recreation. We have this emotional holistic understanding. Through these petitions of Christ we can tear down strong holds and everything that exalts itself against Christ. How do we destroy the destructive corruption that dwells in us? In order for us to be unified in our experience of redemption we must come to an understanding of the true value of a thing and the defensive quality as the expression of its value. We can kill the old way in us by cursing. We can make it so odious that it would reflect in the physical world. It would recreate our memory of the curse. In this we feel unity of the protective purpose of God even if the earth should cave in around us.