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If God is sovereign and some people are not
part of His elect, does He just make an arbitrary choice? If God has
given us the ten commandments about love for Him and neighbor is He
asking us to make choices for the best of others but He can make a
choice that is not according to His law of love? If God is absolutely
sovereign then He gives what He demands in His law. How can we reconcile
His arbitrary choice with how He runs the world through our choices
according to the law of love?
God doesnt choose anything outside
of His attributes. In order for there to be good in this world and for
God to make everything good He must be completely just. He must demand
legal compliance to the law. So God must not only make a choice as an
allowance of good but He must create the good Himself. Gods purpose in
choosing a thing is to defend the good and punish the evil.
God
created the world for the purpose of governing it in peace. His original
choice of saving us was just. In order for God to establish peace He
must create a thing for His own purpose so that there would be no
understanding outside of His purpose. In other words in order for there
to be a peaceful cohabitation the ones who do not enough Gods goodness
must be in the dark. God is always good and in order for our view of Him
to be good He must create powerlessness to show the greatness of His
goodness.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is salvation truly FREE?/
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on: December 19, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
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Big
O, although I have had (and still do have) the same perennial doubts as
to my standing in the Lord, I have come to see that they are more often
then not the result of some sort of expectations of that I had of
myself in being able to pursue the good and avoid the bad in my own
flesh. I never quite looked at it (while I was doing it) that way - just
in retrospect. But Big O, allow me to share something with you; 22
years ago, after I had undergone some fairly negative and scary
consequences as the result of my addictions, I decided to seriously
rededicate my life to the Lord. The church that I had then attended was
the United Methodist Church which about as liberal in it's leanings as
you can get without being Universalist/Unitarian. (They once invited an
native American shaman to come in and bless the sanctuary, in case that
should give you any indication). At any rate I knew I had to leave as
what was being taught was not what was demonstrated as lining up with
God's will. (And it hurt to have to leave as I was fourth generation in
that church and most all of them had known me since birth). But anyway,
after a very short indeterminate period, I found my way into the
"graces" of the United Pentecostal Church (and the quotes are
essential!). In the span of 22 months I had a short (but very intense)
course in Legalism 101. The result was I found myself being in doubt of
my salvation constantly. I was an incessant neurotic; I was making trips
to the altar anywhere up to three times a week! I learned that only
those who had experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the
"evidence of speaking in other tongues" could truly say that they were
saved (and I had never experienced this). This church put an extreme
premium on outward expressions of "holiness" (i.e. women were not to cut
their hair or wear make-up or jewelry, men were to be clean-shaven and
neat, etc,). Needless to say, I agonized constantly over both the
externals and the internals of my walk. I was a mess.
That was
many years ago, and as I have said many other time and places on this
forum, this fear still crops up here and there. Big O, scripture tells
each of us as believers to "work out our salvation with fear and
trembling." And guess what? That is exactly what you are doing! What
does that tell you then? Why are you the least bit bothered by it unless
you know deep down, that you really belong to Him? It is the sin that
bothers you Big O, and I can really relate to it. I can also relate to
when this Christian walk seems so dry and joyless that sin seems like
the easy answer - except that in the long run, it isn't. I can relate to
beating yourself up and wanting to quit. I can relate to all of it.
What I have a hard time relating to a lot of the times (just like you)
is a savior who took up all of my sins on Himself -past, present and
future- and said "Tetelestai!" ("It is finished!).
It is no less true and no less wonderful just the same.
Yes
tb this is the classic reformed thinking. I think there is a bit of
modern day counseling techniques mixed in tho. Im not a C S Lewis guy
when it comes to how i view our sin and the kinds of suffering we go
through as a result. I really believe in the curses... I know Lewis
thought they were below the standard of christian practice. But
Ive been speaking the curses for quite awhile. I mean there is nothing
in my praying the Psalms that I avoid. I think Paul said to Timothy that
all scripture was given to us for correction etc. I dont understand why
the church avoids portions of the Psalms. And yet preach hard against
liberals. And really if we are encouraged to meditate on Gods word nite
and day then how can we be dogmatic if we are claiming something we
believe in but have no experience of the rewards of meditating on all
the Psalms? So in defense of my position i am saying that I did
the homework. So I have a very balanced understanding of how sin and
grace are applied to the elect saint. But if we avoid the real reason in
the whole consequence of the law then we can make all kinds of
assumptions about why we suffer and how it is related to our sin. The
fact is the law curses sinners. The law stands over the city as people
pass by and pronounces death to them. God is the source of the
pronouncement of death because He always demands a life for one small
violation. To this we find comfort because God really is in control. How
could we believe that God is in control but we avoid the part where He
is in control of life and death? This redefines our focus. If in
fact sin demands death then we have no pragmatic idea to plead for
ourselves. Our happiness is depended upon coming to mystery on a daily
basis. The line of life and death. Or we cannot help but think
pragmatically. Trust me ive done this for so long i know thinking
pragmatically is misery. It should be below the christian standard of
conduct. And this is why we really really believe in inability. Because
if we use the rite measurement then we are all in the same hopeless
position. And none of us would wish that the law fall on our brothers.
We would see that our sinning is allowed by God. And our only hope would
be to find the curse meeting the blessing ...that being to curse the
way of the wicked..which is God allowing us to go the way of blessing.
This is why the Psalmist focuses on his threat of survival that reminds
him of his sin. I think this is the orthodox order for a believer. I
can further give you the whole teaching on self protection taught in
the Psalms. I mean I dont want to presume by missing a detail about how
all of this is applied.
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417
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is salvation truly FREE?/
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on: December 18, 2013, 08:09:22 PM
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I suspect the root of this is the " hell " idea doctrine ?  . If
you look at Jesus attitude toward the sinner you would see that He was
gracious. It was only those who spoke as if they could save themselves
that He became a bit harsh to. lol And this is because anyone who
teaches that they attempt to keep the law have a need to have the weight
of the whole law fall on them. Jesus Himself wished this upon the self
righteous. This attitude is worse than adultery and murder. God
is more harsh than we could ever imagine. In fact He is so harsh that He
will not put it into our hands to be the judge. I think He protects us
because He knows we would be instant hypocrites. If we violate one law
we are guilty of violating the whole law. What should be our punishment?
An act of contrition? A sincere confession? No DEATH! Now who wants to
play games with Gods law? If Christ did not satisfy the law we are all
dead ducks.
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419
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Law and Gospel Distinctions, Applied in Parenting
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on: December 16, 2013, 10:38:51 PM
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Psalms one is distinguishing a righteous man
from a wicked man. I do not believe it is saying that the righteous man
gets his counsel from other righteous men. But its distinguishing
between the counsel of the wicked and Gods word. But Gods word is more
than the standard of righteousness, it also includes the statutes ,
decrees, and the promises. In other words it addresses all of mans needs
as well as the standard of conduct.
The first chapter of the Psalms is an introduction and not a total explanation of the way a righteous man lives.
The
word of God is more than advice. Its not like the counsel of the
wicked. The wicked do not believe that the bible is a complete
counseling book. But in fact the bible actually is Gods spoken word in
which life begins. When it says that the man will be like a tree planted
by streams of water its a way of saying that the bible creates
stability in the believers life.
If you look in Psalms 19 you
will see that the words used in Gods creating the world and all things
are life giving words. Like the heavens declare, the skies proclaim,
they pour forth speech. What the Psalmist is saying that God through His
word displays His law, statutes, decrees and promises through all that
He makes. In other words the evidence of God establishing His authority
is how perfect the physical creation is united to work in a holistic
way. We see there is perfect balance and symmetry.
Now this is
interesting because the Psalmist describes Gods law, that being His law,
decrees, statutes and promises as reviving the soul, making wise the
simple, the commands are radiant, the fear of the Lord is pure
enlightening the eyes. etc... then the Psalmist says ...may the words of
my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight...
my Rock..Redeemer. So he is saying that as God creates so through the
Psalmist using Gods word the Psalmist creates.
We must
understand that God creates in the Psalmist and the Psalmist creates by
Gods word. This is the point of the the Psalmist describing his usage of
Gods word as radiant, pure,enlightening. etc. God creates something
from nothing but He has gifted us with His spoken creative words.
Now
then the law and its work on our hearts is not like the its used on an
unbeliever. We have a new will so we have a natural understanding of our
inability to obey the law. God does not need to restructure our will.
We now have a new will that is Gods will. Our desires are sanctified
completely. This is why people react to this radical freedom because
they think that God must have us on a leash in order for us to fall in
line. But in fact we possess His word which overrules all things
-including all men. Through His word we now can recreate our bad things
to make them good.The experience in us will be as a radiant light, a
pure or holistic return, and receiving illuminations that enlighten our
eyes. We not only turn things around in this world but we experience the
eternal verities as well.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The interior function of assurance in the language of the curses.
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on: December 16, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
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Assurance is our birth rite. It is our
experience of being in Gods refuge. Gods refuge is both personal and
corporate. But in order for us to be assured we must never give into
doubt. God describes a refuge as someone who is available to stand in
your place and speak on your behalf. This means that God as our
substitute has promised to always be available to listen to our cries.
When you go to Him once you can always say that He will be there the
next time.
We live in a culture where we are taught two opposite
truths as the answer for our problems. But these two truths create a
question in our minds. So we go back and forth being double minded. The
bible never discourages us to seek salvation in other things. We are to
seek this one thing by grace so that we grow in grace. We are being
delivered and we are encouraged to seek deliverance.
This means
that God as our substitute is our deliverer. The purpose of our coming
to Him is based upon the promise that He will listen to us and answer
our petitions. Our encouragement is that He only needs to speak the word
and all things are put into place.
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