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751	Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart	on: February 06, 2013, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: morning listener on February 06, 2013, 12:04:27 PM Biggee, I understand you. And it all makes sense in a very Calvinist/Sovereignty framework. Its tidy and has internal consistency but moral and ethical problems coming out the yingyang. But imo, any religion that tells people the events and tragedies and exploitation going on in this world are not their problem or responsibility is a potential cancer and easily exploited (and may even be of Satan). There is a reason Jesus came to earth with a sword and set forth a church. A church is not a bunker where people go to hide waiting for the end or the rapture clucking about how great God is and how fortunate they are.. The church was meant for us to be kingdom people and we should act like it. I think you need to go back and read some of my other writings. There is no one more concerned for his own skin than me. lol If in fact God has made me and pronounced it as good then I matter to Him as if His concern for me was single focused. What do we have that we have not recieved as a gift? If we are all gift so to speak then our mark is packaged in how big the Giver is. I have been discussing our inward struggles in comparing it to military tactics. I am naturally not a fighter. But I believe that the apostle in discussing the goal of our faith was his focus on the target. He said that we do not shadow box. If you have ever heard me get loud pacing around speaking the Psalms you would be taken about at the absolute destructive things that come out of my mouth. And yet in my presence i am as harmless as a dove. lol Whatever His plan is i must walk through it and i must advance not trying to convince people but to move heaven and earth toward the goal. lol This mandate is the entire earth. lol We belong to the owner of all things.  My sweat equity is in the use of these prayers. lol. I am saying this in a contained way. I am not standing above these prayers but they design my course in life. This is all contained. I cannot do otherwise. I only get personal because I am just showing you how we are personally involved in hand to hand combat with the course of this world. I do not want to say what is outside my renewed best interest. This is not directly personal at anyone.
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752  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: February 06, 2013, 11:50:03 AM Yes I agree about the plight of the injured and their need for redemption. But this is what is so not understood about us. What nation has ever solved this problem? Every nation on this earth has ended in the trash heap of destruction. Yes nations rise and fall and rise again but they end up in the same predicament. I do not want to be a negative person about this. But there is a sense of the future and yet looking at the facts in light of the historical decline in nations , one must find solace in something that is far better. But we must look also at our personal plight in this world. And this has been my problem with those who create this Devil as a kind of religious propaganda controller behind the scenes protecting someones religious organization. You know every time they are attacked as them having such a deep influence at this time that the Devil is personally involved because of the persons importance. The purpose of my writing this is to make a point that God has decided the winners and losers in life. Thank God that we are saved from being that ultimate judge. Gods purpose in this is not necessarily because we do not have the power or the ability to be that arbitrator. After all God gives men judgement in this world. But Gods main concern is that we be protected from suffering as the sinner judge. And this is my point about evil and its affects to us. These problems we face as to our success are much bigger than we could control. Our problem is to not distinguish what will eventually come to our judgement. Its the old problem of being so puffed up with power that we micro manage everything. But this is our natural desire. We want to do things and be successful. You see we were never supposed to take this kind of thing upon ourselves. This is why we believe that every time we are opposed by someone that its directly involves our struggle with  evil spirits. But God has given us the gospel not just for our salvation from the eternal retribution but for our deflecting these cursed weights of things we are not responsible for. And yet because we have a clear mandate to bless those who bless His glory and curse those who curse His glory then all of these personal effects toward the plight of the injured and the destruction of  the poor are a gift to give out of freedom of all that God has taken upon Himself to put into time as a renewing God. In looking to God as lifted up we are made to act on the basis of the gift and not the ultimate responsible judge. Reply Quote Notify

753  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: February 06, 2013, 10:25:23 AM Every man is a hypocrite as far as sinning. The difference is that an evil mans sins are not covered. Where as a believer experiences a renewal because of his sins. In this sense we all face the ultimate questions equally. Because we ultimately are all without hope unless someone stands in our place. Why does the bible call a man a fool? Because he thinks he can atone for his own sins and believes that he is better because of his personal disciplines. When we are looking at who God is these individual works of righteousness are put up against our list of sins means nothing. The point is that trust is everything in this life. The events of this life come through desire. The desires of evil men war against Gods desires. God gives life but man seeks after death. This means that sin begins with a desire that does not seek the redeeming factor in human relationships. God says that our words expose the condition of our hearts. As I have been saying that Gods standard cannot be manipulated. You cant control God with your religious words. When we approach God its on His absolute terms. Its His prerogative to demand His view of the earth from how we view life. This is for our own good. There is rest in finding God to be who He says He is. God does not grade on a curve. He looks at the heart and weighs the motives. The real reality is that we stand before a God according to His view accepted beyond what we could imagine and based upon a work that we could not do. It is standing in Christ righteousness that we see how awful this world is. Im not accusing you all personally about manipulation...simply writing with different verses in mind. I write from scripture. Reply Quote Notify

754  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: February 06, 2013, 04:55:37 AM The ot narrative of Gods judgement on the nations is bathed in Gods revelation of Himself. So God in showing that He redeems His people shows the quality of that redemption by the sinfulness of sin. Sin is the back drop of God working good. We have all these human questions about the suffering that is involved in God getting the glory for His work. What we must understand is that God not only shows through death and suffering that sin is destructive but that He alone exist as this process of death and destruction continues. Our temptation is to draw parallels and connections by what we see and understand about the purposes of these awful events. The two things we must understand is that our survival is dependent upon identifying what God does in this work and seeking to acknowledge that God is just and rite in His purposes. In this we rejoice. We know that Gods ultimate end of all that transpires in the world is for the good. And yet that good is measured by the suffering. This focus is essential in our overcoming evil and disaster. We sort of find God not as beyond the suffering but under the suffering. Our reaction to the suffering is to sink into pain. It is the reason that we try to find an answer. Ive found that in seeking to find solace in the midst of the suffering that I am most comforted when I repeat the works of the Lord to the Lord. You know the way out of the uncertainty and our of the anxiety of the situation is what our focus is on. And in some ways we find the mystery of the greatness of God diverting our experience of evil in it. The Psalmist says that he will declare the works of the Lord. We cannot avoid the suffering and evil because it gives us our only hope of Gods greatness in acknowledging that He overcomes all of these terrible events as proof that He is good in interacting with the events. God is not silent or unconcerned. He is not standing far off. The only other option is to trust in a god we make of our own. Reply Quote Notify

755  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Yeah, Illuminati Symbols. Whatever. on: February 04, 2013, 06:23:44 PM When society becomes hardened and hateful everyone experiences rejection. You know I am not a violent person nor am i big on guns but this is why God destroyed the nations around Israel. This is why God sent His people whom He covenanted with as a nation into exile. Sometimes there is only one answer to societies that have become like Sodom and Gomorrah. God must eradicate evil men. The Psalms says that God shortens the lives of the leaders of the earth to silence them. Because if God is not God then the whole earth will be too much to bare. The evils that surround us would amount to pain that would be unbearable to endure. When the foundations are being destroyed what can the righteous do? What is the answer. The Lord on His throne. The Lord will respond. Let me say that the christian who trust in his own horses is short sighted. We cant even trust in our own strength. Our arms are too short to account for all the injustices we are faced with. This is not really about money or power but its about trusting in the Sovereign Lord. Its about focusing on His purposes in all of this. We become softened as more people become their own Gods. This is what we try to resist. We do not want to feel like God is just watching. We want to know that God as our Father is listening to us. We want to know that when we ask He is listening to us. Its the Lords battle. What is the picture of the Lord of Salvation? What significance do we place on the Sovereign Lord? Our hope in Him listening to us  is that we will see the salvation of our Lord. This is the picture in Israels sojourn. The Lord went out in front of them as a Fire. The looked forward at the presence of their protector. What kind of relationship did they have in this redemptive sojourn? They commanded the Lord of glory to bring them to safety by destroying their enemies as He advance in this pillar of light. Why  was it so important for them to pray in this way? Because God provides Himself to us through His promises to be a covenant keeping God who has signed in His blood that He would provide for us and would be our refuge in times of trouble. Some of the sweetest times Ive had in prayer is being spiritually bloodied in prayer and experienced His power to conquer. We have a focus that cannot be thwarted. Its praying in this Psalmist way. Reply Quote Notify

756  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Wetiko Disease, vampirism of the human soul... on: February 04, 2013, 11:09:22 AM I have experience in this kind of spiritual warfare. But its important to understand what we are reading about a situation is from our knowledge of life... street smarts and not from our feelings. We can feel evil as a threat and mythologize it. The Greeks used to make physical things into spiritual forces. The Animist think there are spirits in physical things that are threatening. I do not think the bible tells us to read spirits that we cannot see. The point is that we are in direct conflict with evil not in the sense that it is the cause of all of these threats to us but there is a war going on in this world between evil men and the righteous. Its not hard for us to believe there are evil spirits behind these threats.But these situations we find that are too strong for us are orchestrated by the god of this world with real people. Our temptation is to think that salvation is a matter of speaking correctly, loving everyone, and living peacefully. But the truth is the apostle says that we are in a conflict that is like being in war. The apostle himself used military analogies to explain the christian experience. So we draw parallels to the ot warrior with the nt saint. You know ive meditated on the Psalms thousands and thousands of times. All of this language is in the context of Davids conflict in battle. The images that he explains are directly through his personal feelings on the battle field. Let me say that a christian is the only person in the world that can talk to God as he is. And so there are things we experience in this world that no one understands. Our battle begins in our own minds. We do not wrestle with other people as if they cause us inward conflict. At all times in searching for inner peace we must be above our circumstances. This parallel is drawn from David ascending to the hill in his prayers and rolling his troubles over to God and at the same time creating a new future through divine wisdom and guidance. Its when we find anything too strong for us that we begin to doubt. How do we get the burdens off of us so that we feel in control of these different circumstances? We have a biblical mandate to have a spirit of humility. So we have an outlet. Because the gift of humility is new spiritual reality that we will be victorious. Our confidence is not in ourselves but He has gained the victory. He has taken the spoils of war and led captivity to heaven. When we pray our humility gives us confidence that we understand this spiritual conflict. We are on the side of God. lol This language of a soldier is very personal. Where is the experience of troubles that we find in this life most magnified? Its in the context of war. In war there is no doubt whos side you are on. You live by being able to understand the tactics of the enemy. Your enemy is identified. This is why God has given us these prayers. Just as David proceeded  through the forest, describing his experience of being hunted, being wounded in battle and descibing his pain, of seeing the angel of the Lord interact with the enemy and him being delievered at the last minute is an experience of the adversity we face in this life. This gets to our most vurnerable inward experiences. God digs down into us and listens to these prayers of his children as they experience their own inner conflict as if we were calling our from the depths of our souls in a transperant way. The conflict of the world is in us. We only know the conflict by our view of it.    766  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 29, 2013, 03:58:47 PM Ive said this before but in Gods view the whole of history has already come to its culmination. Now if we believe there are things to be worked out as part of the fundamental purpose to this culmination then there is reason for us who want to go to heaven, and opposed to going to hell to be horrified. But since the purpose of the world is ordered and fixed then we can be sure that our salvation is fixed as well. And in a sense from the time of our salvation we are looking at the fulfillment of the end of our salvation to be in the present. So we are looking back from the perfect. I mean if salvation is deliverance from our old way of thinking and the world system then it is truly experienced as going from death to life. This is why i have spent so much time distinguishing between our living the blessed life and being delivered from the cursed life. Because the law of God not only pronounces judgement to law breakers but it brings all men to be eternally punished in time. And this does not make us look at it as a horror movie but it puts all of the proving of it on God. Not only does it place God as God to prove Himself faithful to protect His own but it places God under covenant obligations to show Himself faithful.This is why i do not budge about the absolute sovereignty of God. Reply Quote Notify 767  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 29, 2013, 03:24:07 PM  RR Im trying to understand what you are saying. I think your questioning the reality of your past accumulation of biblical facts. Is it because your frustrated about it not bringing you to peace? I have a lot of intellectual knowledge about the bible but i get real fulfillment in the meditation of it. I have never really desired to make the facts the primary source of my christian experience. The facts of doctrine in my experience have very little security for me. But i look at the facts as part of the total way the picture is painted. Like looking at a beautiful painting. But my meditation is what brings the color and symmetry to the painting. I believe there is in our minds eye a meta physical image of who we are as the basis of how we live in reality. I hope you continue to explain your experience. But responding to how we are to think of all of these terrible circumstances in this world and what kind of God we see as orchestrating them to be a God who is fundamentally uncaring and without grace is not centered on salvation. As I have said before there are questions in the christian faith like going beyond the normal human understanding ...kind of irrational because these questions are like a person thinking about death in the wrong way. You know the bible is a book that teaches wisdom in the common vernacular and not meant to cross over into the horror of life. One of these reasonings is that God should get pleasure in my suffering and if it was His will for me to go to hell I would fully accept it. Thats like saying that salvation is offered but God pulls it back. Salvation is offered not to terrorize its recipients but its to fundementally give us reasons...not just related to eternity but our view of life to always look at the positive side of anything. The christian should be the most attractive when it comes to common ways to approach life with a positive outlook. Reply Quote Notify 768  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 29, 2013, 04:51:53 AM Jeff I do not believe mystery is nothing. Because we are all describing something even if its that we believe its nothing. I mean your very dogmatic about finding nothing to be true. So the mystery I am talking about is what i do not understand that has the back drop of what i can clearly understand. So when i describe what i cannot understand it is in the context of the something that I describe that I believe is worth writing about. I acknowledge that my belief is personal to me because I am willing to expose myself in writing about something I know I am controlling. I had a choice in writing it to say it this way and not another way. I fully acknowledge that I want something for myself other than the selfless intention of controlling what others have written about the same thing. We all have something we believe that we describe even if we want the point to be that we think nothing is something. Reply Quote Notify 769  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: January 28, 2013, 07:55:16 PM Im still meditating on the first part and getting ready to start again to memorize the rest. Remove Reply Quote Notify 770  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 28, 2013, 07:29:13 PM Is it wrong to say that we are notoriously evil all along the road to our final destination as the evidence that we being represented by Christ is the reason that we are getting better? What is it to acknowledge that we are sinners?  Do we find  our appearance the basis of our confidence that we are getting better? Do we say with confidence that we are better than our first response to salvation? You know that our first experience of salvation was in our own judgement miss represented in comparison to what actually took place. It was experienced as something that freed us beyond anything we had experienced before. Did we really understand that weight of sin that had been taken from us? Its kind of like your first romantic experience. You get all caught up in the emotion of it all. So the basis of our change was not in our understanding of the context of what salvation actually does. The basis was all of grace. It was a gift in which the focus was totally on the Giver. Why is it that we accepted the fact that we received something that we had no business deserving because the only thing we could explain about it was what we were taught and what we experienced. There was very little personal knowledge of the details of the life of Christ. And yet we confessed that we owned that salvation. This is what is so dissociated about us with when we live our christian life and change this gift in some ways. Because along with not deserving it there was a mystery about it that separated it from any other change. But because we did not understand the nature of salvation we experienced freedom in that mystery. Maybe we can describe it as the flesh being subdued and nothing matter but the present moment. In the height of freedom and joy the future from our view point was bright. Is it really growing to a point where we trust in our knowledge that it is all of this salvation is true? Or are we more able to find that mysterious paradigm in a more profound way?   Reply Quote Notify 771  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 27, 2013, 02:14:56 PM cont, Let me talk about the necessity to get this spiritual man described according to my dogmatic Calvinist position. On the other hand all christian endeavors in this world to do good to our fellow man is to be commended to some point according to the value of the work. But I cringe when my calvinist brothers become kind of moderate. lol Because truth is defined as one. One precept upon another. THe bible says that the soul of man receives sustenance from the truth like eating at the table. So all of these spiritual foods that we describe are like the ripe fruit off the vine according to its description we become more animated by its effect. THis is why I so dislike greek thinking , because it redefines the concepts of the hebrew motif and in this it changes the definition of the apostles encouragement to follow his pattern. Paul was not like a greek god who just received raw revelation as if he was the one who came out of heaven to deliver the message. But the apostle was simply teaching what he studied in the ot books about salvation. We are not dividing these two hermeneutics views but we are making the ot be revealed in the nt.  Because the bible goes farther than describing the physical world. Or it goes beyond saying that the promises and commands make up the whole of the bible. But the bible in each word describes the whole the whole book. Instead of the bible encouraging a new way to deal with heart issues...it actually uncovers the old beginnings so that it is made to be like a tool that goes down to the depths of man and who he is. So we do not order our words for the purpose of sounding like greek minded nt theologians but we allow the ot to provide the foundation of the teaching of man and salvation. So this gets to the heart of the issue, because if we divide the christian man into what he thinks and equally define him on what he does then we will be tempted to redefine all of the doctrines and their effects upon the heart of man. If we take away from God and give some to man then all of these descriptions of salvation, sin, judgement, and grace will be changed. This is why I hold my calvanism to my heart. Because it is more than a set of teachings. It is my experience of GOd communicating His life in my soul. Reply Quote Notify 772  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 27, 2013, 01:14:33 PM cont Let me discuss hate and suffering.  Suffering is increased as hate begins to get rooted in us. So these two evils are like handmaidens. The danger is that we do not teach ourselves the rite kind of hate. God hates to the point of hot displeasure. But Gods hatred is purposed to advance the peace and tranquility of the world. Hate is simply a desire fulfilled to defend those who are helpless. There are two motives for making a better world. There is love and godly hate. Love is a wish from a motive of mercy. Hate is a wish that suffering would end through cursing. Both of these motives create a world that is first a meta physical idea of what it is gonna be like without sin. The bible not only teaches hope in the future where there is no more pain but it gives us glimpses and we are caused to experience the height of joy etc as the glory to the next glory. Godly hate is the same thing. Its looking into the future gazing upon those who suffer in hell. It is an eternal desire. THis is the end of cursing. Its godly hate being fulfilled that ends all suffering in this world. It is real reality. We live in between this world and the eternal world. We are designed to think, feel and desire what Gods will is. To hate like God is to fulfill our design. To ignore our hate is like a self curse. God gives us an outlet for our hate. He has given us a desire to rejoice in the final declaration of the law on those who live in destruction. We avoid destruction by wishing a curse upon it as if we  were not touching that unclean thing. With this focus God consumes our hate and we begin to live in real reality. Reply Quote Notify 773  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 27, 2013, 12:52:46 PM No one likes to suffer. Its inhuman for people to stand around and watch another person suffer without trying to help that person. No matter what words you describe how you react to suffering it is unchristian to not be concerned.  Why is suffering so harmful to society and to a healthy world view? Because the gospel is a message that brings healing not just a vehicle for truth. So goes the respect for our fellow man so goes the general health of a nation. When someone suffers alone they increase their inward hatred. Suffering is like scratching a wound. You try to ignore the pain but the more you scratch it the more you react to it as wanting it to go away. I cant understand how people can come to the conclusion in any doctrinal system that suffering in itself is a good thing. It is a curse. The attitude toward suffering shows the level of normality in society. To ignore suffering and endure it is to wish a kind of suicide. To enjoy suffering is to wish a curse on ones self. The gospel is a message that not only gives a person hope of comfort but it provides the basis for living in another realm ...the supernatural realm where there is no more tears, no more suffering. So the gospel is not just hope for the future but its wishing to create something in the future that is to good to imagine. THere is no purgatory of suffering through endurance. If on fact the gospel is our only hope in this world then to live without a daily application of it in this supernatural effect to us... that is experiencing joy unspeakable, peace that passes understanding, living in the heavenlies , being identified with Christ so that we our eyes are enlightened to know the height and the width of GOds love, as the apostle wished unto prayer for the saint , then the only other option is to fall into a pattern of inhuman world views. This gets rite down to the direction the world is going in. THere is no other option, we must live from one glory to the next or we really are only part of the problem. Reply Quote Notify 774  Forums / Main Forum / Re: I overheard a Muslim and Jewish women --walked in towards the end of on: January 26, 2013, 08:37:50 PM Jesus is the eternal word of God.  He was present in the creation of the world. For by Him all things where created. It doesnt say all physical things but all things. So Jesus orders every space in the universe by His word. And this is where we suffer from disassociation. If we could trust this concept that Jesus is the beginning and end of all things then we would associate the importance of His promises to us as really yea and amen. But its more than a word spoken to us rather we are in Christ. It speaks of belonging to Him in this servant-kingship duality. Not only are we valued because of our identity but because we are at His feet we share in the rites as sons. It has taken me quite awhile to soak this in because the scripture teaches us to pray with boldness with this dual identity. So there is a sense in which with our desire and boldness we command Him as our commander. The old saints used to say that we plead these promises. And i would add that we speak the curses. This is what we have a hard time understanding. Jesus was humbled in Him coming to earth to take on flesh. It was like coming into a cesspool of sin and destruction. And yet He willingly accepted His role so much as to go to the death. WHat is something to ponder is how He enjoyed sinners even tho He was to be extolled and praised as God. And this is what helps us to understand about these times in our lives where we are encouraged to go down into the depths of these trials. I mean in a redemptive sense not psychological....in meekness. Its like facing the curses of sin.We willingly decide to look at the suffering not as a blessing but as a further identification with Christ.Jesus lowered Himself as we are in the flesh. It seems a contradiction for Him to get pleasure out of walking and talking with sinners. But this is the reality of this world. This is the experience of redemption. Its where sin and hate come together. Its where all of these seeming contradictions find their solace in One Man. We go down because that is where Christ is. You know you have one of those Jesus moments in the strangest places. You are rejoicing in your silence.This is where we view the otherness of reality because down is the end. There is no other place to look but to all of these realities meeting. Reply Quote Notify 775  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 26, 2013, 05:28:39 PM I am a dogmatic Calvinist but my position on the soveriegnty of God is not my original position or the apostle Pauls but its born out of the historical context of Gods dealings with Israel as the central  focus of how we define God as our Father. So I do not believe that Israel represents primairly a theocracy. I believe the ot relationship with Israel is not political but redemptive. So that God ordered all of the events in history for the purpose of salvation and not necessarily showing that He rules all things. The individual spiritual dilemma is not one of possiblity but impossibility. Sin is not only defined as rebellion against God so that we focus on a God who dares man to go against His will but sin is the destructive reason for all that happens between men. The point is that God has reasons more than just proving that no man can thwart His will. So that Calvinsim is not intended to show us in our most vulnerable parts that God is rite even tho there is no remedy for our pain. Rather the point of  God being absolutely soveriegn is to show that He is always faithful, kind,longsuffering,and gracious. God does not curse  His own people. Rather God promises blessing to His people but it is dependent upon His people believing His promise. Those who retreat and believe that God adds sorrow to His own children do not interpret GOds relationship with Israel as a Father. This is why the ot relationship with a nation is bathed in patriarchal relational terms that proves  God is a faithful Father to His children as His grace was shown to be the basis of His relationship in ruling over His people. WHy does God allow disaster ? Because in His kindness He must respond to  the curses of men. God curses  the curses. Sin is destructive and God must destroy the destroyers. The purpose of all the events both god or bad is to show GOds fatherly care for His children. Excuse me for bad spelling... my computer crashed and i am writing from a tablet. Reply Quote Notify 776  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Creating Spiritual Reality on: January 25, 2013, 03:05:46 AM God is everywhere present because He is a spirit and has not a body like man. And so we qualify life by Gods existence. We live in a sense in God. And all of these effects that we encounter are beyond our ability to define them. This means that life is beyond out ability to capture. The heavens declare the quality of this life by defining it as the glory of God. We live in a universe that sort of expands as we are raised to glorify God. The bible calls this having our hearts enlarged. WE experience the greatness of this life more and more. We are recieving eternal life. This is our blessed gift. To rejoice in the enjoyment of receiving the life of God. Remove Reply Quote Notify 777  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Jesus showed up at my office today... on: January 25, 2013, 02:37:53 AM I do not think I could get through this life without understanding that God considered me before I knew Him. And this is where our confidence in our christian experience starts. I mean we can focus on being reduced to nothing in order that He might be glorified but He has gifted us with something that is more valuable than anything in this world and it starts with something He creates in us. There was nothing there until He spoke it into existence. So our salvation was not from a human source. We begin to understand the greatness of the grace when we see the unfathomable riches in the gift and in that the exceeding greatness of the Giver. This is exactly how God showed His greatness by calling His patriarchs blessed. God had covenanted with Abram that  He would provide all that  he needed.What was the reason that God blessed Abram? Was it something that Abram deserved? No it was because of Gods unmerited favor that was granted to Abram. So there is nothing that we have that doesnt come to us because we do not hold onto it as if we could increase it but it comes to us freely....for the asking. This gift comes from a Person based upon His promise to provide for us freely. The promise is according to His goodness. Its according to the standard of Gods character. So we are always looking for it  to be provided to us  that is more than we could ask or think. Reply Quote Notify 778  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Gravity Falls on: January 17, 2013, 09:55:47 PM Most of the propaganda even if it is secular is taught with religious intent. Thats why Christ said that Satan comes as an angel of light. And yet I do not think that Christ avoided situations because of the evil influence.  This is how we experience evil. It seems to appear as a huge mountain of trouble but upon resisting it in the Spirit it is quickly disarmed. Some of this crosses over into the psychological. And the christian experience is interrelating between the soul and the body.  There is a tendency to attach evil to how we are effected by a disaster.  The experience is our gaining wisdom in dealing with the curses of his world. This is what the apostle was warning the believers about old wives tales. And I dont mean to say that Ml is saying that these reactions are old wives tales. I think tho we can see danger in things that are totally harmless. So I want to focus more on the intellectual battles that go on rather than the appearance of evil as how we define the danger of being deceived. You know that if the Devil is an angel of light then this whole appearance of good and evil is turned upside down. We too have the evil potential within us that we avoid because of the awful appearance of that evil in the world. How we understand relationships in light of what is evil and good is important to our purpose in this world. Our identity and the value we bring in our purpose is partly our overcoming evil with good. These old wives tales sort of take pieces of who we are because they prevent free thought. The bible not only tells us what we should know about evil and good but it gives us an ability to have confidence that these effects of evil cannot overcome us and through this we find our purpose. Reply Quote Notify 779  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Jesus showed up at my office today... on: January 15, 2013, 06:43:34 PM Im not a person who carries past experiences so that they determine something about me that i think is true in the present. So i try to meet the present experience with as much unbiased determination to learn something that proves that i could be wrong about what i am believing by my thinking in a certain way. So i think very little in my circumstances that is done in order to move things forward by others or myself is in the right or wrong categories. I believe that everything in this world that is produced is through an imperfect process and its done by imperfect people. So i believe that if God created the world by speaking it into existence then there is something intriguing about the disposition as God brings pleasure to Himself through the beauty and symmetry of it all. So this is our glory to try to get wisdom from God in an indirect way that leads us to something that we learned that was not pre conceived. I guess its like describing a tune that is played by a band. If one of the instruments is played wrong or out of order then there is something odd or it is obvious it is not being done properly. And so i believe that there is much more order and detail that we could never understand without God creating that order through His wisdom. What is it like to walk in step with the living God so that we seem out of step with the world? Well Christians have an advantage in this world that is one dimensional. We have our God moments... our imprinted time lapses that go beyond the world into a third dimension. And all of this is promised to us that if we are His then we will hear His voice. How do we come to the point where we experience this pleasure in our understanding Gods communicated creative words to us? It can be described as God enlarging our hearts.   Reply Quote Notify 780  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Jesus showed up at my office today... on: January 14, 2013, 08:34:09 PM All of this reaction to our present circumstances is interrelated to what God is doing in us. Its part of human nature for us to think what was gifted to us yesterday is not enough to satisfy us today. And a lot of people relate this deli-ma to our struggle with self and the flesh. But at the same time God has given us a very strong desire to live. We have been gifted with a great desire to survive. I think this is where we misunderstand the difference between our enjoyment in God as growing in Christ with a goal to survive. Our temptation at this point is to put faith up against reason and human expression. Our struggle is not to feel as if the troubles are so great that we become engulfed in them. But to just say that if we believe then all things will go well does not satisfy our being understood about our expressed inward frustration. You know that everything about us is expressed outward by us as we understand confidence. It has been said about great leaders that when they came to a crisis and spoke it was like the air was taken out of the room. How do we live with the potential of all that the world gives us and an uncommon trust that we cannot be moved? If indeed the world to us is what we are then what is that experience like? I think there is a great deal of teaching in scripture about how to survive in a world turned upside down. This was one of the only examples on this earth when Jesus walked into a room. The people knew that He could give them whatever they needed to survive. Here you have a physical nearness in the disciples dependence upon Christ. If Jesus is walking with us then there is nothing that can threaten us. Now here is something to ponder. Think about that reality of being in the presence of Jesus who is the great physician. But this is offered in a spiritual sense to us that is supposed to be much greater than His coming down to man in that bodily aspect.  I dont believe that it was just a nt identification with the risen Christ that gives us this supernatural expression of all that we are in surviving in our circumstances. Because Christ as existed as the eternal Son from before the creation of the world. So that He in that relationship to us controls the elements and circumstances of all there is in the world. For He upholds all things. What does in look like to experience Christ in this kind of quality of survival?   Reply Quote Notify

757  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: February 03, 2013, 03:16:11 PM Let me say that when you pray the Revelation it is a kind of lament and cry. In this sense we find these things that are veiled shining through. The Revelation describes the second and third heaven in what transpires on the earth. We get a vision of these beautiful heavenly beings that orchestrate the earths events to the final day. There is more going on than what transpires on this earth in the events themselves. We must understand tho the world is sinking into the ocean of judgement that our purpose must be to praise God that He is bringing this to an end and has promised to seal us from these troubles. We are personally working in unison with the angels. The Revelation connects us to the activity of heaven through our Psalm cries. The promises of God in sealing us is how heaven is working through redemption to bring us to a place where there will be no more tears. These angels have levels of authority starting with the cherubim who oversee the seals and trumpets , the angels who open the seals and blast the trumpet's , open the abyss , orchestrating the activity of the nations and they protect those who are sealed. When we approach the throne of God we have these ministering angels who give us a sense of security , surrounding us with protection and leading us to a confidence that God is working from heaven to bring us to our eternal home safely. Remove Reply Quote Notify

758  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Wetiko Disease, vampirism of the human soul... on: February 03, 2013, 02:39:11 PM I do not think we can describe this as a battle between evil and good spirits. But this is a relationship with a Person and the description of our plight in this world is a case study. God has made us to be at rest in our relationship with Him as Father but man has gone astray. So the universe is Christocentric. The universe is not us being in between evil and good but its defined by a Person as He describes reality. This is why a general knowledge of things in this world can be defined by Him as not understanding reality. This reality includes an understanding of true justice and equity. In this sense we all are searching for the truth as He has brought these things into time. This means that all of mankind is unable to understand reality unless they are given the ability and not just the teaching. This understanding is given by grace. Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb. All of the history of redemption is revealed knowledge and not derived from man. God gifts us with the knowledge that we need to understand reality. We have divine knowledge. This knowledge is true and certain. God not only knows about something but He brings it into time and has designed it from eternity past. Who has known the mind of God and who has been His counselor? When we deal with reality in this world it is a struggle to see all the purposes of God and the certain outcome as being good. The working of salvation is being delivered from this present evil age. This means that our redemption is certain and secure. It is His work in our lives that brings us to our final home. Reality is His purposes being fulfilled in this spiritual transformation. Gods purposes are worked out through all things. There is nothing preventing Him from working including our sin. God describes the heart of man, the world we live in and the final outcome in clear words of revelation. We are weak and we struggle to understand these purposes. But because God has decided the outcome of all things .... all the troubles and trials  that we go through will be to us events that were perfectly orchestrated to be from our good as we see the reasons that we do not see in this life. Reply Quote Notify

759  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: February 02, 2013, 03:58:31 PM cont David had absolute power to pronounce judgement over individuals, nations, in the use of these heavenly beings. David is a type of Christ. Through this power or anointing he destroyed all of his enemies. Christ speaks these judgements in His incarnation...the judgements prayed by David.  These judgements are contained in the entire account of the Revelation. This is our power expressed that is contained. Our anger expressed is contained. Written in heaven, as an account that adds up to the interaction of emanate judgement. These curses are part of the angelic activity that is seen in the golden bowls full of incense. The Psalmist prays... list my tears in your scroll... are they not on your record. Possibly what John acting as a king weeping for the scroll of judgement to be opened by the lamb. All the saints tears are recorded for the judgements on the earth. The angel is like a warrior who is our protector. We have an angel that encamps around us.The angels enact the judgements through the curses of the law. This is the kings language. Remove Reply Quote Notify

760  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: February 02, 2013, 03:31:40 PM The scene in heaven draws a line from the exercise of powers that are described in carrying out judgement on the earth. It describes corporate worship and worship done in captivity.. or individual worship. The book of Revelation describes this work that is done in heaven as the world governments get into the church through evil. So the great struggle is to see that as the christian focuses on God all of these other responses come to renew the earth. The focus upward creates total victory. So the heavenly worship creates the defense through the seals and the trumpets. This is a sound way to experience God ruling in victory over all creation. Redemption in this way is disconnected from the secularist view of reality. The question is does redemption provide all that is needed to live a life of godliness? If in fact all of the promises of salvation come through grace then as we look to God in this exalted vision we see a direct conflict of power wealth wisdom and strength , honor glory and praise on this earth. Christ gets all the glory as the judgements unfold. These judgements that are intricately woven in the plan of redemption that was purchased by the Lamb. The value of these attributes in the context of the need to respond to the trouble of the nations is seen by His blood purchasing it by grace. Any event in response to the evil is only real when we look at the Lamb on His throne who makes it valuable by the purchase price. It is a history of redemption that meets human need. We see the Lamb introduced and what transpired in the incarnation from heaven. The saints who are given the white robes are identified by these earthly descriptions. The palm branches etc. Although it is pointing to the time of the incarnation the seals and trumpets go back to the ot interaction from heaven to earth. (the angel of the abyss) The context of these descriptions of evil rulers is the general condition of society. The works of their hands, worship of idols..ect. There are ot descriptions of rulers...lions with teeth...break the teeth of the lions"...snakes that cannot be charmed....and the armies of the nations that represent their power are the number of horses. And these nations are despots. The seals address this in the horses by a sword, the misrepresentation of the scales-economy...ruling through death and destruction.. and persecuting the church. The power of these angels is seen in loosing and withholding. So the angels are the heavenly warriors that protect the saints. Announcing the mark and withholding the winds. And they use the prayers of the corporate church and the church in exile to enact the judgements. They open the abyss of the earthly destruction with the with the evil spirits. The nations rise to heaven and cover the beauty of creation. In their rise they act as lions with teeth, the beauty is their attractions, but they have tails like snakes and scorpions... that is the destruction that follows their ruling ways. The evil is so destructive that men want to die. Remove Reply Quote Notify

761  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: February 02, 2013, 01:13:18 PM The christian world is not really a democratic paradigm. Everyone wants to have a God who is free to listen to the advice of the majority. But God is separated from anything that is tainted with sin. He is behind the door seated on His throne as exalted. In the world we talk about powers and put meaning on things that are not completely accurate. Because we do not see the entire view of history or even how in the many words and decisions the events of this world come about.  As well as God being set apart from this world as we see Him exalted beyond our understanding of His power, wealth , wisdom and strength , honor ,glory and praise we must understand that Gods measurements of what is just is based upon every word and every thought of man. God weighs the motives and intentions of the heart of man. So here i am seeking not to describe this in general terms or placing man as equal and having a say in who has the rite to counsel God but I am seeking to look at this with detailed questions. In the bible God describes the attacks as a scheme that is created by the words and motives of man. " We will triumpth with our tongues we own our lips, who is our master?" The bible says that Satan is God of this world. Satan does not rule through a physical presence but he advances by schemes in the heart of man through the lust of the flesh, the pride of life, and the and the evils of the heart. Man looks at the outward but God looks on the motives of man. What is so dangerous about a word? Proverbs says that a word spoken in wisdom is like placing a stone on a beautiful dish or jewelry. A word spoken can be like a knife in the heart. This is why evil is described as scheme or anything that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. God considers the threat of evil as a reason to respond. Its not really what we view that is Gods activity of justice. This hidden battle that goes on in this world is more prevalent than what we see. It goes on in the secret places. Man experiences anxiety and fear. God is measuring this hidden destruction. This is Gods focus in defending the weak and fatherless. His actions toward men are for the purpose of renewing society back to its original purpose. We long for no more cries of distress in the streets , no more breaching of the walls to capture the city, no more going into captivity of evil rulers and anyone who sets themselves up against God. We disarm the powers and principalities through Gods spoken word. We lack wisdom to see as God sees. This is why He has given us these general prayers that address His covenant disposition. He simplifies our defense so that in finding God in this Fatherly way , His work is beyond what we could understand as He understands the details. Reply Quote Notify

762  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Mind Renewal Through Transparency : The Psychology of Life on: January 29, 2013, 10:38:00 PM This is extremely metaphysical but reading it should give you a proper soul adjustment. lol Remove Reply Quote Notify

763  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 29, 2013, 09:42:48 PM Quote from: Gouda on January 29, 2013, 09:39:44 PM Thanks, Maxx. I will. I really enjoyed that. Quote from: MBG And the best way is to see that we stand not as spectators but in between blame and defense. Excellent, MBG. Exactly. This is very important. I write that last post in the context of dealing wisely with each person in light of their specific disposition. Reply Quote Notify

764  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart on: January 29, 2013, 09:31:19 PM Quote from: Gouda on January 29, 2013, 09:04:11 PM Quote from: MBG RR Im trying to understand what you are saying. I think your questioning the reality of your past accumulation of biblical facts. Is it because your frustrated about it not bringing you to peace? I have a lot of intellectual knowledge about the bible but i get real fulfillment in the meditation of it. I have never really desired to make the facts the primary source of my christian experience. The facts of doctrine in my experience have very little security for me. But i look at the facts as part of the total way the picture is painted. Like looking at a beautiful painting. But my meditation is what brings the color and symmetry to the painting. I believe there is in our minds eye a meta physical image of who we are as the basis of how we live in reality. I hope you continue to explain your experience. MBG, I want to use part of what you wrote to try to express a few things on my mind in this because it comes close to describing it well, but I differ on a few points—still many commonalities there for me. I can’t speak for RR, but I am not “questioning the reality of my accumulation of Biblical facts.” I’m questioning what others have presumed to tell me those facts mean in relationship to the people around us. I’m questioning their casual judgment and instant dismissal of my expressions of my following after Jesus. Several times it was pointed out that the Evans article was not questioning God or judging Him—she was questioning the people who told her what it all meant (as if they have God totally figured out) and she was disturbed by the casual acceptance of pain and suffering and horrific death in this world by some simply declaring some are merely “vessels of destruction” and telling her that genocide shouldn’t trouble her since it’s all in God’s plan. If “Jesus wept”, aren’t we to be able to do that,  too, openly and fearlessly, without someone calling us “emotional” and unbiblical and faithless? And I loved the painting metaphor. I agree that meditation leads to revelation. But look at it this way—let’s say you’re Picasso, and you display one of your painstakingly created paintings. You unveil it, hoping that people can see what you’re trying to express.  Some Christians do that metaphorically only to find there are evangelicals or strict literalists who jump up to say, “Wait, the eyes are in the wrong place!  The nose looks weird! This is disturbing, and it’s not real! You can’t paint like that!” I know it’s kind of like that when I try to pull the veil off my heart and express my meditations sometimes, because there’s usually someone to call me too emotional, or too uneducated in theology, or accuse me of judging God, or throw 22 random Biblical verses at me, to say what I’m going through in my walk can’t possibly be real. If you have read me I have given a very good reason and a logical one for Gods actions. And I believe that it is easy for us to dismiss the importance of not wanting to make this like a horror movie. And its because we do not put this in the proper context of redemption. I know its easy for us to dismiss the emotion as if that would make it lack orthodoxy. But my explanation is from a feeling of empathy. Because the moment we say that we are on the side of those who have be harmed then we fully acknowledge that those people who did the act deserve to be punished. So my purpose in this is to help people who feel abused to kind of exercise the cursed hardness out of their souls. And the best way is to see that we stand not as spectators but in between blame and defense. Just as there is a positive way to aggressively come along side of a person to take the grief there is a way to go at the cursed grief so that it is ended as fast as it can be so that a person does not endure the grief but feels like they are defended. Ive experienced sorrow many times in my life. Almost all of it comes from being wronged in some way. But my experience is not in the other persons mind and heart. So I am coming from the terrible disposition that I was given as a child to be extremely sensitive in how trials and wrongs enter my heart. Let me say that I have become a professional decompose r. Ive written about this in many of my post. The point is that we cannot feel a sense of joy and peace unless we find that Christ is more than our understanding companion but He is our defender. And my insistence that God is in absolute control is not from a desire to vindicate God even if it hurts my brothers. But is so that I can appeal to them to experience God as their personal defender. I have so much to say where i can show that a big God goes farther than just carrying the burden but He is powerful enough to decompose the grief. Reply Quote Notify

765	Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Scandal of the Evangelical Heart	on: January 29, 2013, 08:52:39 PM
That verse about speaking all day long to Israel is misunderstood. A lot of people think that it is addressed to the people who are christians but they are not dedicated.  But in the context of listening to God it is necessary for a person to have a desire that is implanted that wants to seek after God. The question is does that desire come as a result of something we do or is it the cause of our seeking God? This is very important because if the desire cost us something then salvation is by works. And if the desire cost us then how can we give enough to keep it going? This is so important that the desire is equivalent to saying that salvation is either all by grace or it is by works. If we play fast and loose by sying that the desire was given by grace but its up to us to keep it going then we have no confidence that it is acceptable or from God. This is why the bible makes a clear distinction between those who seek after God and those who do not. Just as it is always true that those who confess Christ are saved so it is true that those who have an ongoing desire to seek God know God. So if this is equivalent to salvation then the question is since salvation is all of grace then the desire to seek after God is all of grace. And this is how God has given us a desire that He implants in us that we call life. Its a living desire to seek the living God .As opposed to seeking after dead idols. But in order for us to flame this desire we must follow Gods design in how He makes it come alive in us. Anytime we think of salvation it is in the glory of a gift from God. Because God must be exalted in order for us to define salvation in terms of something that does not come from a human source. And so we glory in the gift as we would glory in the exalted giver. To think that something was gifted to us in our shared power is the same thing as lowering the value of the gift and thus lowering the value of the Giver. And this is why there is nothing in this world that is like this one desire. It is so powerful in us that it is compared to dynamite. Because this desire is free then there is no limit to our experiencing Christ because we simply get the desire for free and we learn to find it again as the source of it being poured out in us as we come to Christ as we are. Because the desire is a gift there is no reason for us to obtain it by our ability or  appearance. When we learn that it is abundantly blessed to us in our lack of power, showing how evil we are, then we will begin to come naturally to Him. We will see that the basis of our salvation is our recieving the overflow the more we lack.