(shrug)
Focus away, MBG. No one is stopping you - No one is trying to stop
you. But please don't imagine that you're the only one here who's
speaking truth. You've already said that you're not going to be
pragmatic in what you write. Fine. Please understand that, being an
A.I. group facilitator, I both am and have to be.
One part of
the training I received was watching an interview with a guy who went
after his wife with a claw hammer. She managed to escape, but not
without a broken arm in two places. Stopping him, and getting him
(while in prison) to admit to and own his abuse, and then teaching him
new, better ways of viewing and speaking and behaving is about as real
and pragmatic as it gets.
(shrug)
In terms of "motive", mine is very straightforward: Stopping abuse.
As I said earlier, the guys who were part of our A.I. group thought of,
viewed, spoke about, and spoke to and treated women as servants instead
of partners; as objects to be used/exploited, instead of as people or
partners. Their attitudes and words and actions were expressed on
multiple levels and in multiple ways, and, it ended up being abuse in
some fashion/form. And what Carolina says in his posts here in this
thread - and in other posts he's written - about his views of women, his
expectations of women, and so on, are the SAME kind of views,
expectations and remarks made by the guys in our group. That's my
experience, in both the group and here on this board; and I can't
"unsee" what I've seen. And that kind of thing needs to be stopped and
new views and attitudes, resulting in new ways of speaking and behaving
need to be learned. It's really a kind of "conversion" that we worked
for in our A.I. group.
.
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1337
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: A good wife
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on: May 02, 2012, 08:35:14 AM
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I think there is a lot of misunderstanding here, and I have no idea how to unravel it.
MBG,
I thought that was a personal prayer, too, until I finally understood
that it was a bit of creative prose, based on the Psalms, to explain the
heart of one in the midst of oppression. I agree with the fully
expressed heart's cry of that--to look to God alone for deliverance and
justice, but...I would think that same attitude would make one just as
opposed to a pitiful checklist for the behavior of the perfect wife as
they are opposed to any one counselor's general directives.
I
think I understand a bit about your burning heart for sinners seeking
grace, and a bit of Jim's sympathetic heart for the people he has seen
suffer terrible abuse. I love you both, and I hate to see you fight.
This
is my point that counsel is doctrine. I know theres a lot of stuff out
there about what to do and if youve been reading the context of my
definition of biblical counseling it is very narrow. I do not believe
that we necessarily change by adding something or making a list but
rather through thinking thoughts after God. This is what is so odd
about this world now. Most of the stuff we hear are bits and pieces of
truth ...like half truths. You would not believe the opposition ive had
toward this idea of thinking thoughts after God. I am stunned as to the
level of deception even among church leaders. See now ... the bible
is not a book we negotiate on. lol The bible does not give us options to
choose from. But the bible is life. It provides the basis of these
words that create reality. A lot of people teach as if the bible is
about personal experience of a man and not a teaching from the Holy
Spirit. As you see when i am dealing with Jim im not talking about what i
think he needs to do but i am using the word to judge the motives. This
is why the bible says that it judges the thoughts and the intents. It
does not change the behavior by adding something that we do not already
have. Its not a book that gives us a list of things we dont like about
ourselves and then we try to follow that list. The bible destroys evil
and blesses sinners who are in Christ. Now what we are talking about
is a very narrow reception of truth. And in this sense no man has
authority over us. The bible gives us complete freedom to enjoy sin and
to enjoy God. Although with sin we are unable and that makes us fall
back on Christ. So even tho we may enjoy our sin yet through grace the
joy of Christ over comes our sin. So as ive said to Jim the biblical
counsel is not pragmatic. And in fact if you can show me a divided man
in that Psalm then you have a point about accepting counseling that
offers us something to add. lol But this is the pure experience of a
person who used to being counseled in the night and in the morning the
word speaks to him. People do not realize the danger of offering
counsel to someone. Because the bible really does not distinguish
counsel from prophecy. So it really is not something that is advice but
it puts a person in a position of either falling back under bondage or
being free through this idea of fanning the flame. And so evil
counseling is like a prophet who prophesies falsely. In other words the
counsel injures the spiritual life of the person. And this is what Jesus
said about the Pharisees. He said that their leadership brought
judgement on that generation. What they did was put heavy burdens on the
people and did not lift a finger. lol And so they were prophets who did
not bring a person to life but they destroyed the soul of the person.
And all of this was because they studied the law but it did not make
them warm on fire. Rather it was a rule book to follow. And so they put
out every ones fire. Just as it says in Galatians. You began with this
Spirit ...why are you turning back to the law? In other words they had
an experience of salvation. The Spirit came upon them and they were
filled with life and vigor but these Pharisees through their works
doctrine actually set out to destroy their zeal for God. So we see that
counseling is a life and death issue. lol If we focus strictly
on what this man is saying in this Psalm then we will see that what he
is saying is connected to all of counsel in the wisdom books. I can
explain any further questions.
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1339
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Forums / Break Room / Re: Godspell“As long as we live there is never enough singing.” ― Martin Luther
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on: May 01, 2012, 08:46:29 PM
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MBG, Are you aware that Godspell, Jesus Christ Superstar and Tommy were anti Christian and anti-Jesus.
Godspell
is a blasphemous play that portrayed Jesus as a face-painted-clown,
clad in a Superman shirt. The Godspell play was performed in1971 in New
York. "Jesus" is shown being baptized by John the Baptist who is seen
floating in the swimming pool, while smoking a cigar. The play then ends
with "Jesus" being crucified. This anti-Christ play does not reflect
any resurrection.
Of the three Godspell was the least offensive but not anywhere near accuate and faithful the the message of the Church of ages. It would seem to better fit the ideas (or doubts) of the emerging church rather than the real church. Thor  Godspells
script is directly from the gospels account. The music was taken from a
Lutheran Hymnal. The play is about a bunch of kids in a park setting
who act out the account as kids. The themes and insights in the play are
very serious. The guy that wrote the play was kicked out of the
catholic church ..not able to take communion because he had long hair.
And in fact i like that he was Jewish so that he added the ot jewish
themes. Its suppose to be fun because it is about kids. lol I love the
music even tho there are a few places that i dont agree with the
theology. Its jewish and worshipful. Godspell is a revival kind of
experience. You got to understand the last song is "long live God". And
Jesus is carried out with the song "Prepare the way of the Lord" in the
same notes. Which is a jewish way of blessing. So that is not true..
Jesus comes out at the end.
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1340
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: A good wife
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on: May 01, 2012, 08:37:59 PM
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MBG, if I misunderstood what you wrote, I do apologize. But, when you write, "I
do not know about my wife. I do not know if she actually belongs to
you. Because i experience a terrible war in my mind about our
relationship. I am troubled in my mind. Because this relationship is
taunting me. And you say that only evil men are able to taunt a
righteous man like this. But i fear that i have in my bosom a real
traitor to your covenant" ; and then write, [/i] "I have been
assaulted by the person i cherished to go to the house of God as we
together rejoiced. But now they not only are a traitor to your covenant
but they have betrayed me", [/i] it really does appears as if you're
referring to your wife.
As for Scripture, I've never denied that
it's God-breathed. Nor have I said anything in any post of mine that
questions in any manner the accuracy of the Bible; nor have I treated
the Bible "lightly" as you say. What you're going on about with that, I
have no idea. And no, I'm not divorced - There is really no call for
your making such a wild accusation. And yes, if our groups were still
up and running, you'd be welcome.
JR
This is like talking to a 2x4. The whole post was a Psalm... jeezzzz beam me up scotty.
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1341
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: A good wife
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on: May 01, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
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Well...I
don't know about it being "cathartic for the guys", as you were saying,
MBG, but I would say that what you wrote could maybe considered
"revealing." I mean...
- when I read you saying that your
relationship with your wife both troubles and taunts you - and then say
that only evil people can taunt a righteous man as she does;
- when I
read you saying you fear that your wife is a real traitor to God, say
she is a betrayer of you, and that you feel threatened by her, assaulted
by her, and that she (and her friends) are driving you away from God;
- when I read that you are asking God that they be confused and that death take them by surprise....
the word "revealing" comes to mind pretty quickly.
I guess it may have been personally cathartic, in an imprecatory psalm kind of way.
Now
this is just a ruthless accusation. Cathartic simply means to purge...
I put wife in there because that is this post topic. Maybe i out to put
you. lol How dare you say my wife is a traitor. Im gonna tell her
about you sir. You would be a traitor to me thats for sure. To
even insinuate that gives me a reason to not trust you sir. Well it
would be a little above suspicion. lol And this just shows me your
motive and its not about real genuine concern but its about you
obviously. Its obvious that you think lightly of all of scripture.Or you
probably didnt even recognize that it was scripture. Acting like there
is no such thing as leaving everything for God. lol Your impersonal
attitude is atrocious. All scripture is God breathed. And its
given to us for our own benefit. If you do not take advantage of it then
thats to your own loss. Obviously we are talking about two totally
different ways of thinking. Your just interested in the psychological
effect. Im interested in the biblical accuracy. Go play your blame games
with someone else. I suspect your probably divorce at least once. lol
Or i dont understand how a women could live with such an angry man who
publicly attacks others. Can i join your group so i can learn how not to
offend others. LOL Are you telling me that you can pick and choose which scriptures you want to obey?
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1344
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: A good wife
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on: May 01, 2012, 12:35:29 PM
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I
didn't find 1Sinner's or Gouda's comments to be attacking. Indeed I
found them very respectful and honestly given from a woman's POV. I
worry about what I see as MBG's over reaction to this post in my
opinion. Could it be the truth is cutting a little too close and stings
a little too much MBG?
I understand what Gman has been saying
about his ideal woman. I just think he needs to put these unrealistic
desires for the perfect woman in perspective, especially when he doesn't
intend to bring anything special to the table on his end. For example
his reply to my question, "Gman, how great are you going to have to be
to this mythical woman to justify all this slavish treatment, or do you
believe that just being Gman is going to be enough?" To which he
replied, "Yeap, just being gman is enough!!"
I understand he was
sort of joking, but his comments continue to show an underlying
misogynistic (fear) attitude towards women that I feel he is, at least
in part, unaware of. JimR came on strong, but sometimes a strong
response is what is needed to break through the sort of denial Gman is
in. I do believe - though I do like Gman and value his posts - that he
is really out of touch with the reality of what a relationship between a
woman and a man - TWO EQUALS - is about. I poke at his comments
when they strike me this way because I really do care about him, and I
want him to take his head out of the sand because I want whatever
relationship he forms in the future to be successful and happy for his
future family. If he truly means the kinds of things he posts about
women, then he needs to wake up and realize not only how unrealistic,
but how unfair, and ultimately how self defeating his expectation of a
relationship with a woman really are.
And just
like your fellowship with the group of sword throwers .. you are very
condescending. I have many sins i am concerned about by not many
friends.. lol.. if you can find a post where i stood against someone
because of their sins ..that i have written then i admit i am a
hypocrite in saying this to you. Its smooth words that pierce
like a sword...not words that bring healing. lol Obviously we have a
disagreement with bible interpretation which is the most important
thing. Your counsel above is very pragmatic. lol
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1347
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: A good wife
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on: May 01, 2012, 05:40:41 AM
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MBG
- I didn't judge them by a profile; I judged them by their
self-admitted views and expectations and treatment of women. In terms
of what they needed, that's easy - They needed to stop abusing and learn
new ways of controlling themselves and being safe and respecting their
partners and treating them better. Thor - I did not and do not have the
one-sided view of things that you describe, and if you really do take
the time to read my posts, you will see that I acknowledge that there
ARE women who ARE ______________________(enter your own negative
descriptions). But that doesn't excuse the guys from admitting to and
owning their stuff. All we could do was work with the guys and point
them in the direction of doing that, and give them some techniques for
exercising self-control so that they were safe to be around. I ask you
to please not misrepresent me.
Sir..
i am not painting you in any way. Im responding to what you have said
and your judgmental meanness. I encourage anyone to come here and talk
about their experiences. And i enjoy talking about mine. It doesnt
matter what other people think. If i want to wear my heart on my
shoulder then you can either accept it reject it...it doesnt matter to
me. If a person had bad experiences with a women its more important to
me to hear the experience than to try to figure out what went wrong. I
am not a thought police and even if a person never enjoyed a good
relationship there still is value in going through the hurt. I think
very little about being judgmental.
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1349
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: A good wife
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on: April 30, 2012, 08:59:22 PM
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There
are plenty of ways to abuse a female partner that do not invlove
hitting or being verbally abusive. The guys who were part of our A.I.
group viewed and spoke about and spoke to and treated women as servants
instead of partners; as objects to be used/exploited, instead of as
people. They did it in many different ways, and what they did was
abuse. What Carolina says in his posts here in this thread - and in
other posts he's written - are the same kind of remarks made by the guys
in our group. And it's just as narcissistic and demeaning and
exploitive, and wrong and ultimately abusive here as it was there.
Let the readers decide for themselves.
Heres
my problem with the way your thinking. Lets say i was being watched by
way of a camera. And there is an altercation. And my opponent puts his
face in my face and tells me he is gonna hit me. So as i walk away i see
this box that is not behind the line so i kick it.So i go to the boss
and say that i was threatened. So they look at the tape. Now they see
the obvious words said to me but they implicate me because i kicked the
box. In other words i kick the box in order to straighten it out but
they make an assumption that i was kicking the box because i was
responding to being threaten. So i am censored as well. First i was
told what i was thinking by someone who observed a situation from a
camera. I was accused of something that i was not intending to do and
that was to stir up the fight. I was not at fault but they assumed
something about me by what they observed in a camera. So i was falsely
accused and censored. I hear this all the time. We know by what
someone says that there is a profile of that person and he needs help.
But instead of getting the information from that person and believing
them you just assume because all people who ask the opposite sex for a
specific behavior that its abusive because thats the profile. Just like i
was innocent in that confrontation so those people who are accused of
something they did not do are facing people who would lie to help them.
lol Just because one person responds a certain way does not mean that
every person responds the same way. lol
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1350
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: A good wife
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on: April 30, 2012, 08:19:32 PM
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If he is saying there is a legitimate reason
to hit or abuse ..in words too.... your wife then i would say you have a
right to attack him.
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