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Every man is a sinner. There is no one
righteous no not one... all have turned aside .. all together have
become corrupted ...there is no one who does good ...no not one...
Every
great saint has a terrible problem with that sin that so easily besets.
The reason that God is out to prove that we are sinners is so that we
might exalt His power. lol So we are talking about sin and inability as
the proving ground for God proving that He alone is to be praised.
This
is why our sin protects us from going our own way. What keeps a man
from loving the things of this world more than Christ? Its because that
man is kept from the riches of this world. God puts up rode blocks
through personal struggles that the wicked vile man may be free to do
because he is so called well adjusted. lol
This is the mystery
of marriage. All the negative traits of the individuals are actually
blessings that if you look closely they fit together like a puzzle. One
negative trait offsets another negative trait. Because God orders these
things so that the two people are successful as one sinner. lol You ever
gone into marriage thanking God for your spouses sin because its the
glue that keeps them humble enough to stay with you ? lol LOL... so dont
offend them like your better.
The worse sin is a self righteous
sin.. its using the gospel to abuse people. God turns it upside down.
Christ spoke publicly.... the majority of cursing words to the
Pharisees and the Devil.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom of the Will.... J. Edwards
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on: January 07, 2012, 06:46:24 AM
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(2.) The connection of the subject and
predicate of; proposition, which affirms the existence of something, may
be fixed and made certain, because the existence of that thing is
already come to pass; and either now is, or has been; and so has, as it
were, made sure of existence. And therefore, the proposition which
affirms present and past existence of it, may by this means be made
certain and necessarily and unalterably true; the past event has fixed
and decided the matter, as to its existence; and has made it impossible
but that existence should be truly predicated of it. Thus the existence
of whatever is already come to pass, is now become necessary; it is
become impossible it should be otherwise than true, that such a thing
has been.
(3.) The subject and predicate of a proposition which
affirms something to be, may have a real and certain connection
consequently; and so the existence of the thing may be consequently
necessary; as it may be surely and firmly connected with something else,
that is necessary in one of the former respects. As it is either fully
an; thoroughly connected with that which is absolutely necessary in its
own nature, or with something which has already received and made sure
of existence. This Necessity lies in, or may be explained by, the
connection of two or more propositions one with another.----Things which
are perfectly connected with other things that are necessary, are
necessary themselves, by a Necessity of consequence.
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1772
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: OF THE WORK OF THE HOLY GHOST IN OUR SALVATION... Thomas Goodwin
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on: January 07, 2012, 06:34:51 AM
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And this for him to vouchsafe to do for him,
to take the same pains to do it, as ever mother or schoolmaster took to
teach a child from his alphabet to read, is an act of infinite grace. It
is he that gives thee eyes to see, and an heart to understand, who
holds the candle to thee, and points with his finger to every sin. Let
us all consider the uupleasingness of this work, which were it not that
it is necessary for his saving thee, he who is the Holy Spirit would
never rake into such foul and filthy jakes and dunghills of lusts and
by-ends, unbelief and presumptions. This must needs be a loathsome work
to him, by reason of the objects he is exercised in, and tedious in
itself. And this is the entrance into conversion.
[2.J It is this Spirit which works repentance upon this discovery of sin, and turns our hearts from sin to God effectually.
John
the Baptist came preaching ' the baptism of repentance for the
remission of sins.' Now by what, or whose power was it, that repentance
was wrought in the hearts of multitudes that were his hearers? It was
the Holy Spirit. 'He shall come' (says the prophet) 'in the spirit and
power of Elias,' Mal. iv. 6. The spirit of Elias was the Holy Ghost,
resting on him (2 Kings ii. 15), as he did on the Baptist: Luke i. 15, '
He shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.'
And it is spoken to signify the power that should accompany his
ministry, to work repentance, as it follows in the next verse; 'And many
of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord his God.' And
thereupon it is, that this prophecy of Malachi's is alleged, ver. 17,
'He shall come in the spirit and power of Elias, and turn the hearts of
the disobedient to the wisdom of the just.' So as that which is spoken
of Paul's ministry among the Thessalonians, 1 Thes. i. 5, that it came '
not in word only, but in power, and in the Holy Ghost,' might (though
in a lower degree) be said of his. And yet the first and eminent effect
of his ministry was seen in the working of repentance, as it is often
said, in Acts 18th and 19th chapters. It may likewise be observed, as
serving to th:s purpose, that when Christ gave that new commission to
his apostles, to preach repentance in his name unto all nations, for the
remission of sins (as in Luke xxiv. 47),Jhe withal renews 'the promise
of the Father,' which was the Holy Ghost; ver. 49, 'Behold, I send the
promise of my Father upon you.' And why is that annexed to the former,
as the preface thereto, 'And behold,' shews, but because the giving of
the Holy Ghost, even after Christ's ascension, was to work repentance in
men's hearts by that their preaching? Yea, and he commands them (as
with a caution, in the following words), that they should tarry in the
city of Jerusalem, until they were endued with power from on high.
Without whom, and the power of whom, their preaching repentance would
have had no efficacy at all, to move men to turn unto God; but through
whose operation God gave Israel, Acts v. 81, 82, yea, and the Gentiles,
repentance unto life, Acts xi. 18.
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1774
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: If you love me, you will obey what I command.
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on: January 06, 2012, 12:16:21 PM
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I
do not think you intended for it to come across this way but just go
back and read your main point. And it goes something like this . God
has given us commands and promises. He does not give us a vote on how
this antimony can be explained. So this is why we have such a wide
variety of differing opinions on both sides of the evangelical field of
play. So God is so great that He loves me even tho i accept that two
contradictions can be right. In other words we are left to wonder at
how great God is in that we cant understand what exactly His position is
on works and faith. lol
Two things. 1. To be honest
I'm not completely following your point of view. Not saying its wrong -
or even that I disagree - because I don't quite follow it. But let's
see if we can inch closer if you're interested. 2. Per your quote above - I'm pretty sure that's fairly close to what I meant to say. 
But a couple of refinements. I didn't say that two contradictions can
be right. I was referring to two APPARENT contradictions. That's the
very heart of mystery - it displays the glory and majesty of God.
Freewill and sovereignty is perfect example. Many years ago - my
young Christian friends and I exhausted ourselves trying to reconcile
the two during a study of Romans. I finally threw up my hands and
arrived at this conclusion (which is where I remain today): "I have
personal accountability and God is sovereign - and I don't have a clue
how that works. " They both are true - and they seem contradictory -
but God has a way to harmonize them that we won't understand until we
see Him face to face - for now we see through a glass darkly. There
are no contradictions to be found when it comes to God. Frankly I think we only truly understand a sliver of what's taught in scripture. The
core tenets we should die over - that God loved humans so much that He
was willing to do something really radical to reconcile us to Himself,
rescuing us when we were utterly helpless and making us a new creation.
1 Peter 3:18 "Christ died for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous
to bring you to God. " And having been remade, we are free to obey Him -
imperfectly in the flesh - but perfectly in the Heavenly realms through
Christ. All of the other stuff - we should quit being so dogmatic
about - struggle with yes - divide no. The real division comes from
the differing convictions about what is core and what is not. So
to sum it up, I was mostly venting my frustration amongst friends. I
do think the "love" and "obey" words deserve some additional
clarification from the Greek. . . which still bugs me.
JD..
Dont let the professionals tell you that God does apparent
contradictions. Apparent contradictions are the same as saying that God
loves us by hating us. lol Thats all this amounts to. A warped sense of
personal satisfaction. lol First we do not start with a command
but with a gift. The bible is not a manual for good people to be
better. Its a book of grace that shows Gods faithfulness, mercy, love
and care. It exalts God not what we think God should be like. Let me say
that in all the systems that ive learned there is an extreme danger in
thinking just in a system and not applying that system in daily wisdom.
Because even the bible says that the goal of our faith is not to be good
but to know Him. This is what grates on me about two liners. On the one
hand the word is absolutely essential but on the other hand or coming
from the end of our faith backwards the word does not have any power.
The enjoyment... the communication is through persons. Let me
get away from the value of the word and just focus on the word made
flesh. Ive said this before. If i focus on my obedience as part of the
apparent contradiction then it will never end in knowing something
beyond this principle. Because obedience is more than all the outward
moral things. Its thinking things and knowing things that go beyond the
system of doctrine. Its knowing Christ who imparts more wisdom than the
system. Christ actually speaks to us as we pray His word. He forms the
way we think and do things by illumination. This is more personal than
just reading and believing in a system. Do this... forget all the things
you learned and go to His word to listen to Him. It will save you from
this false way of reasoning. I need to write more about this meta
physical aspect of our faith.
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1778
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: If you love me, you will obey what I command.
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on: January 05, 2012, 01:29:50 PM
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Well
MBG - I guess I'm just whining now. But you kind of made my point.
You had to write volumes to make your position known. If we're honest,
we have to admit there is "tension" around the interpretation of
scripture. There are apparent contradictions - which are really
just examples of paradox. There are issues of translation - "we lose
the full meaning of these words in the translation. In the original
Greek it (love, command, obey) means blah blah blah. . . ". Someone
off the street reading the English scripture I quoted could definitely
arrive at the conclusion that if you don't live up to the standards of
behavior that Jesus set forth throughout the Gospel writings, you don't
love Him. The writings of James is another fount of tension -
and there's plenty with Paul as well. The fact is, I don't like the
way God presented Himself to us (call it a personal problem). I don't
like the ambiguity. I don't like the tension. I want things to be
clear cut. I'm totally cool with mystery, but not when it comes to
foundational concepts. Our many denominations are the result of strong
(sometimes violent) differing convictions around core beliefs (ex.
Arminianism, Calvinism). But God didn't give me a vote. He
gives me no choice but to struggle - there is nowhere else to go. And I
love Steve's mantra that "The only people who get better are the ones
that know that even if they don't get better, God still loves them". BTW - I agree every thing you guys are saying. I
often find myself asking God "How could you possibly love me?". What
always comes to mind is "I made you - and I can. And there's nothing
you can do about. " See
now i was taught this kind of thinking in my early days of learning
Calvin. And in my opinion your teaching something that is not entirely
correct. Now this is why i have a distaste for two line theology. I do
not think you intended for it to come across this way but just go back
and read your main point. And it goes something like this . God has
given us commands and promises. He does not give us a vote on how this
antimony can be explained. So this is why we have such a wide variety of
differing opinions on both sides of the evangelical field of play. So
God is so great that He loves me even tho i accept that two
contradictions can be right. In other words we are left to wonder at how
great God is in that we cant understand what exactly His position is on
works and faith. lol What i am trying to present is a third
option. The historical one. lol. I believe the bible teaches there is
only one way to learn. This is the way of the fear of God. The fear of
God is simply being led by His voice. My people hear my voice and they
follow me. Ive seen people who have a very deep understanding of God who
do not guard these historical doctrines with precision. I mean if you
have one doctrine you can understand.. the doctrine of salvation then
all the other doctrines intertwine as if that one doctrine was speaking
for all the other doctrines. But in the long run this becomes
problematic. I mean we are both personal in our faith and public. At
some point we are going to be led to believe that God is all mystery if
we are not educated in defending every doctrine. To believe a truth it
must be as we are as social beings. There is only one way the
Shepherd speaks. When we think thoughts after God we think correctly.
When we think as the world thinks we stray from the fear of God. So i
believe in the teaching the fear of God we are presenting two worlds of
reality. One world is all the action that goes on in our minds and
hearts and the other world is what transpires around us. But we only
know the exterior world by the actions from thinking in our minds. So
when the bible gives us commands its not a dichotomy... its not
doctrinal precision in our minds and outward actions in our body parts.
lol But the fear of God is aligning our actions from our thoughts to be
the actions of our body. This is i believe one of the problems with
believing in two equal truths .. they nullify one another and we have no
truth at all. We actually do not believe in reality because our actions
in our minds are not biblical. lol I will explain the gospel approach. I
like your short responses as well. lol
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1785
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Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War
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on: January 04, 2012, 08:47:18 AM
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This is the same thing with wanting to be
completely vindicated. If i am Gods servant then i want to be treated
like His servant. If God promises to bless His servants then i want to
claim those promises. Servants are like the guards who wait stay up all
nite to guard the city. In sitting and watching they are overcome with a
longing for the morning. This longing keeps them awake. A servant of
God longs like the guard to see the salvation of God. A servant not only
waits in expectation for the event of deliverance but he ask God for
specific protection against his enemies and waits for the word of
deliverance.
So we plead Gods promises on the basis of our being His
servants waiting at His door for a word of salvation. In waiting for
deliverance we are wanting to be completely vindicated. If God treats us
as His servants then He ask us to come over and over again and He will
bless those who are vigilant in our coming to Him.
Why do we see to
be defended and vindicated? Because we are represented by a God who is
our Father. Does a father treat His sons with neglect or give them evil
things? If an earthly father gives good gifts how much more our Heavenly
Father.
Let me get away from this Greek thinking.Let me explain
the Hebrew mentality of son-ship. Ive got a handicap son. Now ill tell
him go get in your bed and wait for me to get some sleep. And after a
sleep ill open my door and my son will be standing at the door. Now he
does not know better. But this idea that its wrong to stand at our
Fathers door until we get a blessing is not a Greek mentality. One of
the reasons my son stands at the door is because he has no sense of
self. He is too mentally handicap to understand that he is independent
of me. So he copy's me as a way to do the rite things. And in a sense
this is how we should be as Gods servants. You see this Greek mentality
that we have is not really what the ot concept of servant hood was
about. God blesses those who really believe they are too handicap to
attempt to do things on their own. lol
If our son stood at the door
until we gave Him something then we would consider that unmanly. But
this is exactly the picture we have of how we are to be with our
heavenly Father. A servant in the ot sense was one who sought after God
with all his heart. It was not really a person who denied himself in the
Greek sense of servant hood. Self denial was not to a process in which
we denied our personal needs to obtain real salvation. But self denial
in the Hebrew sense was always complete dependence on God. So they did
not see a dichotomy between self worth and a total lack of self image in
this covenant sense. To be without God was to not know oneself. To know
oneself was to seek to obtain gifts from God by complete dependence. It
was not the Greek idea of worm theology.
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