2987	Forums / Main Forum / Re: When does grace end and consequences begin?	on: November 07, 2010, 12:29:18 AM
Quote from: Kings_kid on November 06, 2010, 02:10:07 PM jim:  "grace does not = license to sin all you like and be presumptuous or even contemptuous of God's grace.  Nor does grace = indulging people or being passive with those engaged in sinful/harmful practices." K_k:  Yes.  Where there is no repentance there is no reception of grace.  But if a person is trying to change, has a heart turning toward God, then grace abounds.  Jesus spoke boldly in confrontation with the pharisees and sadducees.  The grace they needed was to humble themselves before their Maker, but they refused to recognize Him. If someone is using drugs habitually, they usually need to face consequences before they can turn away from them toward God, which is repentance.  As long as chronic drug use seems enjoyable and free of harmful consequences (which is an illusion of course), then the addict is doomed to deterioration. Sometimes grace is the ability to firmly confront a friend who is using, and letting them know that you love them, and will stand by them all they way when they want help to get off the drugs, but that you don't want to participate in their self-destruction -- come see my as soon as you want help, but in the meantime we'll pray for you, especially that you find Christ Who will set you free. As Jim indicated, grace does not equal passive acceptance of self-dectructive sin.  That is a distortion which satan and crew have promoted well in our culture, since it paralyzes Believers away from acting in the best interests of addicted loved ones.  And their best interest is almost always to face the results of their behavior as soon as possible.  The longer we "cover" for a hurting friend, the longer and deeper the descent into misery. First repentance is one side of faith. Faith is a gift. So repentance cannot earn grace. But grace precedes repentance. Repentance is not an act of contrition. But repentance is simply turning to Christ. Grace is the ability that proceeds repenting and believing. Repentance is not sorrow. Repentance is not leaving a sin. Repentance is not confessing to one another.  Repentance is simply believing and trusting in Christ for everything. Repentance is not a one time act but it is a way of life.  Second the addiction to drugs is a physical addiction. After many tries to leave drugs through the process of drying the person out ..eventually the person will gain the strength to overcome the addiction. The spiritual part is just a confession away and the person is healed. The physical addiction should be dealt with and spiritual growth is necessary to no longer be defined by the addiction. There are some things we do over and over again that we enjoy. These are not addictions but enjoyments. So we dont want to go the other way and put someone under legalism.
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2988  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: November 06, 2010, 10:26:28 AM "He has made them to be a kingdom and priest to serve our God." This is talking about the present age because we are priest in our personal approach to the throne of grace on behalf our our own needs and the needs of others. We bind and loose what has already been bound and loosed in heaven. Our God works through our prayers to accomplish His kingdom progression. But it will be sight when we go into the new heaven and earth. Where we will be distinguished as rulers. Christ has the reminders that He was the High Priest of our salvation by the human marks but we will know as we are known. Its amazing that we can live in the spiritual kingdom as if the world has been renewed.  Remove Reply Quote Notify

2989  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Death of the "eternal torture" doctrine on: November 06, 2010, 10:17:21 AM Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Let Gods comparative of two ongoing realities ... side by side.. speak for itself. May it be. Amen and Amen. Reply Quote Notify

2990  Forums / Main Forum / Re: When does grace end and consequences begin? on: November 06, 2010, 10:05:12 AM This verse in Titus is distinguishing a believer from a non believer. It is talking about two totally different kingdoms. One kingdom is the kingdom of works which is the sea of trouble. "To the pure all things are pure but to corrupted and do not believe nothing is pure. " This is a jewish proverb distinguishing the wheat from the chaff. Because salvation is all of grace. Grace is not an ability that we control but its found only in the life and righteousness of someone else. It is found only in Christ. So the kingdoms are of men who are gracious for selfish reasons or on the other hand.... men who are gracious because they belong to another person... they belong to Christ. Then they can really quote the proverb that they are declared righteous in the court of heaven so that they are pure by being made pure in the identification of Christ. This is not sinless purity but it is reality. This is because no one can please God by his own efforts. God is the rock of our salvation. Salvation is God coming down to the earth and doing all of the work on our behalf. He comes down as if He is the one who is on the chariot and He comes in the day of trouble. The world is opposed to real grace because they are blind to the spiritual saving events. We live in grace because we only trust in the real saving event. The world says ... you trust in God ... then let God deliver you. The worlds demands are that you produce what you say.. that you prove your goodness by your past effort. We say that God will honor us by our trust in Him. We live by grace and not by the works of the law. Therefore we end all speculation about grace by saying as a confession that we are pure ... we have not been crooked... and in our confession we are looking at Christ alone. There fore we conclude that He alone gave us the strength to resist the foes. We are powerless to do anything. So Christ gives us the ability to rise to our day of trouble because he makes us climb mountains... to the perch where the rock is over our enemies so that our feet are like the feet of a deer climbing the rocks. In other words we may stumble but we will not fall. We are like the deer because we have no ability to defend ourselves from these ferocious beast but we can climb above our troubles. At the top we are most ferocious because we are most above the troubles of this world. We are living in grace like the King of the Israel. David had this promise when he defeated His enemies .. when he was in the heat of the battle and most venerable then Gods glory appeared and took the strength from his foes. God alone got the glory and this is a grace covenant with Davids descendants. We may fall into many temptations but we will not lose the war. This is why our behavior follows our belief or our trusting in the real grace that we will see in the last day .. when we will stand before God.  Our evidence of grace is in our confession of these things. We are promised ongoing salvation as if we were fighting the physical battles of King David. There are thousands upon thousand ... ten thousand times ten thousand of angels who are doing the will of God. We are represented by these heavenly warriors who do Gods bidding as if Christ comes from heaven to rescue us from the day of trouble on a chariot and preceded by the fire of God who consumes our enemies on every side.  Man i thought the Revelation was going to be less violent than the Psalms but this book is the ultimate vengeful reality. This is going to be something that will bring much inward mystery in thinking on these things. God help us all.   Reply Quote Notify

2991  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: November 04, 2010, 01:59:21 PM cont... The idea of cost or purchasing has more than Christ purchasing the elect in saving them. But salvation also includes punishment for the opposition to redemption. God purchases His people for His own possession. This means that God decided before hand to have a people for Himself before they were born .. in which He would put His love upon. This is in a relationship. God provides salvation for the purchased group and they give God all of the glory. In providing salvation .. God gives eternal life as a quality for His people to enjoy so that they might be displayed before the world as Gods special people. God is not a child abuser. This is why God always relates to His purchased possession through grace. The only abuse that the saint is exposed to are the enemies of God. This is why the deck is always stacked against Gods chosen people. God must promise His saints that He will provide their daily needs .... take care of their protection... and daily renew their spirit. So you have these saints who slip and fall.. who are always going astray.. and who are subject to continuous opposition in this evil age who are in need of Gods constant saving effects. This is why God treats His saints as He would treat His own Son. Because God purchased His elect by the blood of His own Son. And the elect need further protection and salvation. We have an advocate in Christ. We have a comforter in the Holy Spirit. This Spirit comes along side of us to protect us. He leads us on level ground by destroying anything in our way. The reason that we are so valuable is because we are identified with Christ. We are represented by the name of the God of Jacob... the root of David. God must display the value of the purchase by showing that He will demand the blood of the wicked. Every traitor of Gods kingdom is a murderer. Every evil done against Gods elect will be marked for God to reciprocate in the final blood bath against the wicked. The saints will dip their feet in the blood of evil rulers. God will vindicate His name. God takes covenants very seriously. Because breaking a covenant is an act of treachery... its a traitor to Gods relationship. I believe that the person in proverbs who it says then you will seek me... but i will not hear you... is directed toward a covenant breaker who is marked with the hardness of his own personal divided heart. The guilty party. Its talking about natural hardness that results.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2992  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: November 04, 2010, 11:42:21 AM There is nothing in ch5 here that puts saving in the hands of men. Because men have always been unable to save themselves. The best that we can do is come before God and ask. Salvation is not just a one time experience but it is ongoing. Every future event in our lives is a spoken decree of God from all eternity. This is why we look to God because He only needs to look at us or speak a word and we are delivered from the trouble... temptation and our adversary. God delivers His people by destroying their opposition. We look to the word of God because it is a saving word to us.  Now you see in heaven this same paradigm. Gods saving word is hidden until the time that God has decreed it be opened. All of the created order is groaning in the pains of child birth for the final renewal of all things when we will rule on this earth as kings and priest. How long oh Lord? But there is only one word we can trust. It was through the word that creation came into being. Because creation was designed by God it was through the will of God alone! And here in 5 there is another future decree that God will destroy mankind and renew heaven and earth. What are the reasons that are brought up by the heavenly creatures? Because God has will men to Himself ..purchasing some men from every part of the earth. The reason that we praise God is because He alone has willed salvation. He alone is able to bring this salvation to its final fruitation. When it is close all the creation groans loudly. This is a kind of cursing against the Satanic opposition of the old earth. The creatures want God to avenge the blood of His Son who spilled His blood for the elect.... out of all the nations...languages etc. They are carrying the prayers... these are the ones that availeth much that rise to heaven like an evening sacrifice of the animal. These are the prayers for personal protection from temptation... protection from a lack of encouragement through fellowship... and protection from the hands of the wicked. This is in the context of cursing the wicked for protection. These are the sweet smelling incense of the saints that are decreed by God for one of the final means to the final renewal. If Christ poured out His blood for the elect then pour out their blood in destruction! They are worshiping God who will judge the earth as He decreed His work. Remove Reply Quote Notify

2993  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Death of the "eternal torture" doctrine on: November 04, 2010, 11:12:07 AM The ot form of ruler ship was in a King who was subject to God by the prophetic relationship the King had with the Priest. The King ruled in the system of checks and balances in the ceremonial laws, the ten commandments, the decrees of God and the wisdom literature. The King was the chief commander of the army. I believe it is consistent with the ot way of threats and punishment that the King David focused on the foreign nations as the back drop for God ruling the earth from Davids throne. This is why David call God his king. The people were threaten with exile as a punishment but the destructive nature of the ruling threat was toward the foreign nations. So we need to see that David as a man ruled by Gods vision of His rite to rule the earth. This is why the concept of justice was not in the vision of the earthly king as God gave Israel the law of God..but it was Gods authority that went out through the decrees as the reinforcement that Israel was special enjoying the protection of the ruler of the earth. So David only had authority as God punished the nations on the one hand and protected Israel from apostatizing on the other hand. God enforced the safe enjoyment of Israel through punishment and it was the destruction of Israels enemies. But the carrying out of the punishment was determined by Gods vision of the eternal nature of justice going beyond the city gates of Israel and the vision of the earthly king to God demanding that the consequences were meted out according to Gods eternal kingdom. This is why destruction was not just the elimination of the physical lives.. the properties ... and physical death but it was a spiritual kingdom of values. In other words David experienced a supernatural enforcement in his earthly rule that God was decreeing for an eternal kingdom. This is why you have this idea that ultimate justice is in the secret counsel of God from eternity. Because all earthly leaders are born  corrupted ideas of ruling. And from these systems of men comes all of the evils on this earth. This is why earthly rulers cannot continue through all generations. Because earthly kingdoms are dominated by the curse of Gods destroying spirit.  The idea of destruction is not just a physical termination... but its a spiritual condition in which a future ruler is dominated by his fleshly desires from birth and out of his desire to avoid the things of God he turns on his neighbor. This is called destroying other people. The earthly kingdoms will all end because there is not a man that is capable of ruling with justice ... equity and consistency. So that the idea of destruction in the mind of a King is receiving just consequences in the kingdom of God. This was consequences not just for rebels against the earthly king but this was consequences for every rebel thought in the secret providence of God. Men are born to avoid God and destroy their neighbor but God is the only one who sees and even tho earthly kingdom... decrease in power ... yet God repays men for every idol thought. This is why there is any available wisdom in this world as the path between destruction and eternal reward. Because there is a kingdom of eternal consequences that puts a man in his rite mind.     Reply Quote Notify

2994  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: November 02, 2010, 02:55:09 PM Quote from: LuvChess on November 02, 2010, 02:01:17 PM MyBigGod, This past weekend my pastor mentioned a recent interview with Billy Graham where he talked about his eye sight going bad, he has macular-degenration. He said he regrets not committing more scripture to memory. I just wanted to encourage you to keep up the memorizing, it's certainly worth the effort! Thank you LC... i hope to get this book... its time for me to try to master this book as much as i can. Seeing that i have gained a lot from memorizing the other worship book ... that is the Psalms.. there are many parallels in Rev. to the worship in the Psalms. Rev. is sort of like a love- praise language of God in a Jewish context.  Roy i have a lot of questions come up as i am memorizing this book of which i am in between this happening just after the resurrection or in the future in a shorter time period. Heres a verse that i am holding in my mind as i seek for answers in the rest of the book. Rev5: 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. This is obviously post cross and ascension. My question is this historical or future? amil or post mil? Remove Reply Quote Notify

2995  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: November 02, 2010, 08:51:40 AM There is only one who is immortal all other beings have a beginning and we die. Thats why we are not immortal. God has always existed and is not subjected to death. Christ was both God and Man. Death could not have conquered Christ because He was God. But as a Man He was subjected to the effects of sin although He had no sin.It is not sin to be tired. But it is easier to sin when we are weak. All sin is because of human inability. Every man has a breaking point or something that he is under obligation to fall if given the ability to fall. No one is beyond some kind of malady. And all men will succumb to physical death. But even when we go into eternity where there is no time .. because time is a succession of changes and there will be no corruption or degeneration. But we will still be subject to change from one glory to another without corruption. Christ as a men has the appearance as if He were slain. He is the Lamb of God in the center of the throne whos blood purchased the elect saints and demands the blood of all sinners. He will carry out His destruction and end mens sin by the blood of fools and traitors. He is worshiped in heaven because He cannot be thwarted. So Christ as a man is still changing in eternity. And yet He is God who is incorruptible, immortal or unchanging. But we will not be subject to corruption as people who are changing when we go into eternity. Every human endeavor on this side of heaven is mixed with nature and corruption. The good is overcome by the evil in the desire to achieve something. Every sin is a lack of ability to fulfill our natural desires. Only in Christ do we get what we desire because Christ is our willing identity. There will be no more measurements of time in eternity... only that we will increase in ability from one glory to another.  Got to be patient with me on this memorization. Almost done with the second chapt.. 5 but i need to digest this stuff. Then i need more than a few chapters as well.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2996  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Grace = Power to Do the Law on: November 01, 2010, 11:11:52 PM K_k:  So God's moral Law, which is eternal, is the foundation of His government.  And Jesus fulfilled the Law, meaning filled it full.  He didn't abolish the Law, but showed how He would keep it in us.  As i said, the Law is a promise of our righteousness in Christ. The righteousness of Christ is His righteousness alone. His righteousness is credited to our account. But it is not intrinsically our righteousness. This righteousness is not from our obedience but it is Christ obedience credited to us. If Christ righteousness could attribute to our personal righteousness any goodness and acceptability to God then there needs to be a comparison so that we do not think that we obeyed the whole law in comparative to His passive and active obedience. Because if we attribute His righteousness giving us the ability to please God then we must do it on the level of Christ pleasing His Father. But we could never meet the standard of Christ obedience. If His righteousness makes us able in any way to please God by our obedience then we lower His righteousness to our level. We must conclude that we are wicked so that we might be justified by faith and not through the ability of our own obedience. Or not by the work of the law. We are declared righteous by imputation. We are not intrinsically righteous enough to please God. God looks at Christ and He sees us completely righteous.   Reply Quote Notify

2997  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Grace = Power to Do the Law on: October 31, 2010, 03:07:38 PM Thanks KK... this is another thread that i will expose your armininsm for what it is. A total confidence breaker. Assurance being broken against the righteous standard of God. First the law was a separate covenant from the covenant of grace. Law and grace do not mix. Law and grace do not work side by side. Law and grace are opposites. When the ot saint looked to the law he saw a tsunami that was coming that was so big that it would consume a man in sorrow. That is why God provided the people with the covenant of grace. Because they were to look away from the law unto grace.  The law is alive because God is God. God is the only law abide r . God does not appease himself in any way... God carries out his law because He cannot be lesser then God at all times. Man is a law breaker. Man is subject to Gods definition of punishment. This is why man cannot make the law.. man cannot devise the punishment and man cannot develop the remedy for breaking the law. Man who is a law breaker is not only powerless against the punishment God puts man in but man is powerless to quiet the voice of the law. Because man cannot quiet the voice of the law then man cannot imagine himself beyond being condemned. God does this reminding by numbering mans days. God is proving that He alone deserves all of the glory for being the only righteous one. He is alone the holy one. The problem is that man is blind to his own ability to measure himself in relation to Gods law. Man is not just blind but man is foolish. Because God deserves mans complete submission to God. But man is a rebel. God has spoken and man has rebelled. Man is born a rebel. This is why rebels have no hope. Because they have been judged before they are born. They are under sin. They do not have the capabilities to please God at any time on this earth. Man is cursed with mental laziness... a lack of mental understanding... a body that is corrupted and subject to disease and failure. And man is cursed by God because everything that man possesses is ultimately going to fail and pass on to another sinner. The only hope for man in his own skin is to wake up that he .. himself is a cursed sinner. And every day he wakes up is a day that might end his existence in this world. God is ready to judge sinners in hell.  This is why a believer is a powerless inherent of the greatest acceptance and pleasure that can be imagined. Because God has taken care of the enmity between them. Now the great law giver pronounces acceptance on the law breaker. You see that God saves sinners so that He can display Himself to them. God has ended sins reign. But man only understands this relationship to God as man understands himself before a holy God!Why does man love Gods law?  First David loved Gods law because it showed him the reality of who God is! David loved Gods law because God gave David the understanding that David could not please God by his own efforts. This was an eternal agreement between David and God. This is called the covenant of promise or the covenant of grace. God promised that if David trusted in His Son for all of Davids acceptance that God would display Himself as the law giver in front of Davids eyes. This is the law keeper who is God showing the law breaker who is David how faithful the law keeper is in coming to the aid of the law breaker as if the law breaker kept the whole law. But David loved the law because David understood that he could not come to God with his own obedience. God produces in the sinner saved by grace the reality of faithfulness... goodness... mercy... grace... and kindness in showing Himself to be the only law keeper and yet treating His law breakers as if they kept the law! This is just the first reason.     Reply Quote Notify

2998  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: October 31, 2010, 01:19:00 PM  Job 1 6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"       Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."  8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." Ok Roy.. i am ready for some more of those word studies... do you believe in a literal earthly kingdom? i dont care about the word studies that are presented like a secret puzzle. If you believe in an earthly kingdom than what historical position of end times do you agree with? Who other than Roy supports Roy s word studies?  Here are two distinct realms and places... God never changes... He will renew this whole entire eternal order to its original pre Adamic state. Revelation is this entire book... but there are many revealings in the bible. Dont be so swat at a Nat and swallow a camel. There are three heavens in scripture... one of which is where God has a local throne. I really dont have time to argue with you about your puzzle. Just check the historical studies. 2 Peter 3:3-13This is not written in comparative language..i cant remember the other form...but  this is an overlapping language. I dont know where you get the idea from this passage .. i mean just looking at it in the english it is clear that we will end up with a new heaven and a new earth.. simular to this one. 2 Peter 3 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  This verse here that you brought up .. you must have forgotten to do a Roy word study... God is outside of time. If you read... most historical theologians distinguish eternity from time. Can you show me someone who agrees with you? Where are you coming from? Do you stand alone in your word studies.? Roy i have given you one opinion.. thought transportation..... you have given me a whole bunch of opinions that do not have any historical reference. Roy...Again, I am not a dispensationalist, nor do I accept dispensational teaching in any respect. If i am not mistaken sir... I have read somewhere in these post that you believe in a literal kingdom on earth.. There is only on camp that holds that position... Dispensationalist. I mean... that really means anything in present day distinguishing of camps.  I am not claiming that you are a dispensationalist in the literal sense but one who holds a dispensationalist position.... sorry i should have point to it as a kind of metaphor... you must have swallowed another camel. Trinitarian doctrine... sorry for the dirty word... historical doctrine.. sorry for the mis interpretative method. But the Father is one with Christ in substance.... "If you have seen Christ you have seen the Father".... i dont see any thing that is contrary to what i have written .. thats the third camel... One in substance and two in Persons. I just showed you the scripture that refutes your word puzzle refuting me. Revelation is not three passages of scripture... its a bunch of former revealings culminated into an explanation of the Revelation. All scripture is God breathed or it is connected like a bunch of beads on a string. You cant separate revelation from the entire book of revealings. 4th camel.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

2999  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Does sinning break fellowship with Jesus? on: October 29, 2010, 09:29:31 AM The curse is a blindness. Men are born to live in a dream world. This is why pride ... a sin that looks small... is the most damning sin. Because that man who has pride in himself is a man who ignores God and will not think of God. The bible does not condemn a man for his outward sins but it portrays the inward hidden life of the man as he grows and becomes powerful and famous. This man looks at his life and concludes the he has no needs. He says in his heart .. i will not be troubled... i will never face the same troubles as my neighbor.This man looks at his life and he is very happy about himself. Mean while he has no thoughts of God. The most damnable sins are not the outward sins... like drunkenness or fornication ... over eating. Those sins can be forgiven... The most damnable sins are the sin of blindness.. the sin of unbelief. A man who concludes that he has acquired everything himself. Little does he know that God hates pride. Out of all of the sins that God hates ... pride is the number one. Because pride comes from a heart of unbelief. This man refuses to consider who God is. This man will not think of God. He does everything he can to ignore and avoid the things of God. This sin cannot be forgiven because there is no hope for men in their natural state. God is not in all of their thoughts because they love themselves to much to consider the end of their days. This is why men will acknowledge outward sins and even conform to a set of principles. But deep down in their hearts they refuse to acknowledge God in all their ways. Men will be meticulous about the sins of show.. they will think that God will not hear them because of some outward sin. They will play the gotcha game on the way of the ladder of success but they refuse to have God in their thoughts. You see it really was not the sin of adultery that David was focused on. It was a confession of Davids inability to please God because David saw the blackness of his heart from birth! David was not concerned about the scope of his sin .. he was concerned about understanding the depth of his sin. Because David wanted not only to dwell on God but David wanted a heart that was fully glorifying God. This was the standard of the psalmist. He saw the complete failure in presenting himself to God. David was not playing the gotcha game with God. David was seeking God nite and day so that he had a heart that was enlarged by the goodness and faithfulness of God. Because David understood that it wasnt the scope of his sin but the depth of his sin that made him seek God face to face! Reply Quote Notify

3000	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Does sinning break fellowship with Jesus?	on: October 28, 2010, 01:42:25 PM
We confuse punishment and the troubles of the world. Our first instinct is to listen to the counselor voice. Or its the voice of the post scientific discoveries and studies. What i mean by post scientific communication is that we no longer allude the the study... in the 70s generation there was this new method of learning relationships and it was just gaining ground in the social sciences. I remember this like the back of my hand..... So they used to say... when we look at the behavior of the animals and they would give you the particular paper ... then we get a better view of the problems of marriage...  but now it has been so ingrained in the culture that we just assume the new relationship communication is the truth. I call this the counselor voice. But the believer understands that God works out all things for the good. We work and God works ... or God works in us. So we need to see that we are totally dependent on God as the motif for the second commandment. In other words all other gods are from this scientific study method. That is human relationships defined down to the earthly level. Every problem must be solved by God alone. We can do nothing. Our honor ... or our return of rewards ... is dependent on God alone! We start communicating wrongly and we add the troubles that come from the world system to ourselves.  So when we speak to the post scientific culture we do not speak from the same mindset. So we say i dont worry because God will work it out... they say... your responsible... we say yes and thats what scares us because we are such failures. So that our doctrine produces rest and ease while their scientific methods produce anxiety ... regret.. sorrow... and determinism of the counselor voice. They say that the experience of men and women prove the need to change a behavior. This language comes with a sub text of scientific studies. We say that God alone is able to change the situation no matter how bad it is. We must be dominated by the biblical mandates. We must not think that we know better. Every false teaching starts with self talk. Its the talk of the world... its not seeing God as the beginning and the end of all things. Our sorrows do not produce our relationship problems but they define who we are in society. We live before a holy God who knows us better than we know ourselves. No horizontal relationship is going to make us less sorrowful. The only hope is coming before God and talking to Him in the wisdom that we have been taught from our young yrs. We must define our relationship with God as the holistic understanding of who we are and we respond in the life that we know we experience with God alone! We must learn how to unburden our souls to God.. to quiet our souls like a weened child... totally dependent on his mother... Or we will be looking in all the wrong places for acceptance and holistic healing. This is from yrs of talking to myself in the wisdom books.
3001  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Does sinning break fellowship with Jesus? on: October 28, 2010, 04:48:33 AM The predominate teaching in wisdom literature is that God hides His face for many reasons. One of which is because of a sin that we do not confess or we hide it by coming to God as if it was not something that we experience personal humility about. But the truth is for the believer that behind every dark providence is a smiling face. The experience of the dark providence is the communication of all of these God like paradigms. Because God describes the low times of our lives as Him having hands and He holds us in His hands .. the hand is lower then the experience. Which is that He is examining us as a Physician and doing a work on us in a secretive way... i mean.. we do not have the strength to understand because the pain is greater than the reward. In this sense God is present but we only know it by a word and not an experience. The Psalmist says that He was reduced to trust in the word to go on. This is Gods smiling face because the word is the rock we stand on. The concept of the rock is a high place we rise up to so that we look out over the future of our lives and we are given wisdom to know what we are to do... what God is doing and our vision of the eternal. Its ruling from the high place. But the rock is also the word in that it is a secure place that we can stand on when the events in our lives are like quick sand. God is our rock so that we call on God to intervene and in the cry we are climbing to the rock that overlooks the whole landscape. Our cries bring us up to the rock so we begin receiving thoughts or wisdom to draw conclusions about our present world. We get some special confidence that God will intervene in His time.... This is God smiling on us in our trials. This is not available to the wicked man. It could be a communication of love in a family sense. You get loved outside of the standard of the world. So its having an understanding that your old slave mentality is a kind of image that is still impressed upon you.....so there is the answer in the cry with the new awareness of His love for you alone along with the communication of these future relationships being taught to other people in supernatural ways that comes together as the new you. Its a God consciousness and subsequent supernatural attraction out of a sense of supernatural freedom.   Reply Quote Notify 3002  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: October 28, 2010, 04:10:19 AM Roy is a dispensationist.... i understand where he is coming from because i used to believe the same stuff. But the Revelations of Jesus Christ are not predominately just about future events. They are the language of God as it is explained in the rest of scripture. Revelation is a description of what is going on in heaven ...under the heavens. God connects us to heaven by the vision of John through the created order on earth. In the future we will have access to heaven and earth. My personal opinion is that the access will be by a thought transportation. In this sense there really is no distance in eternity between heaven and earth. I think the nt makes this illusion to our worship being observed by the angels and the heavenly host as if it was in the same building. But dispensational teaching takes away a lot of this spiritual encouragement and focuses on this present evil time. God is nothing but an event planner or an economist who is tinkering with these seven economies and has failed in each one so that He must give up and start the next one. The focus is really not on God and His covenant people but on earthly systems. Dispensationalism encourages the saint to have their mind on earthly things. Christ rules from eternity because He has always been God. Eternity does not have time and space. God is always present in every space. Christ has always been present as God and He has taught His people that He is the beginning and the end of their own reality from the beginning of time. Christ is the perfect man so that He is the perfect image of man. Men can only find truth about themselves as the look to the perfect man. Men must have Christ dwelling in their souls as if He was the voice of their own reason. This book of Revelation is a glimpse of the image of heaven on the other side of the universe but it is the mind of the eternal as if the thought of a man was being transformed in this kind of dark mode of thought- transportation. Its terribly frustrating to ponder these things as we meditate on them without some kind of new vision of the other. This is very heady stuff and these ideas are hard to be incorporated in the every day way of thinking on this earth. We are promised if we meditate on this book that we will have a special blessing. It may be a reward based upon understanding some of the realities of heaven before we go there. In eternity heaven is not far away.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 3003  Forums / Main Forum / Re: No Grace, No conversation required. on: October 26, 2010, 05:59:14 PM Quote from: crowwoman on October 26, 2010, 02:51:33 PM But the man who wrote over half the New Testament would not have been able to do what he did without the training and education he received. Yes, Paul counted his past as dust, but he used it to its best advantage. Or are you telling me he automatically forgot everything Gamaliel taught him? Well this is the reason...because he had to learn that the ot law was a stumbling block to Paul... the teaching actually encouraged him to covet. In fact the teaching that Paul received is what he turned his back on. I really believe that he was saying it was no better than the news paper you put on the bottom of the bird cage to catch the bird droppings. This identification as the Pharisee of Pharisee was his way of saying that his education taught him to have a zeal that killed christians. It was after the experience on the road to Damascus that Paul had some time alone to re learn everything he had been taught. It was a help because he was able to refute every point. But Paul was adamant not to mix a little leaven with the lump. Faith alone ... through grace alone.. in Christ alone was opposed by the Pharisee.   Reply Quote Notify 3004  Forums / Main Forum / Re: No Grace, No conversation required. on: October 26, 2010, 04:44:07 PM i need to balance my last post out.. David on the other hand was not able to deal with life without any emotional response. The apostle could go through anything and face anything. The great Apostle had to endure the most severe punishment in this life of any man on this earth. David was a great warrior but was subject to fleeing... and fits of depression....i probably would have come back and told him Absalom fled and i dont think he is coming back. It probably would have been better mentally for him. There are a lot more saints like David than Paul in my opinion.  Let the dead bury the dead. Reply Quote Notify 3005  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Feeling very lonely on: October 26, 2010, 03:21:46 PM I know friends come and go... i dont think you can put a premium on one part of life over another... but you can have a lot of friends and be lonely.. or you can have a few friends and enjoy the fellowship in the bad times as well but they also over a long period of bad times.. they go too. Well ... loneliness is also a state of mind that comes from regret and failure. I mean... its dwelling in some kind of sorrow... i think sorrow is good but too much sorrow teaches us a kind of slave mentality. It is possible for us to go through special times where our culture is a lonely culture. People are products of the communication in some form of philosophy. So loneliness can be the experience cap put on good thinking by the culture. Loneliness can be a feeling of being put in a box by the people around us. Loneliness can be a deep awareness that we cannot share with others because they would not understand. It can be like a mental sojourn of the weight of all of the wisdom we have acquired. Lets face it there are different mental capacities in this world. People are not always aware of the things that we are aware of and so we find that loneliness is the feeling of isolation or a lack of understanding for the reasons we know about they dont know about. Loneliness can be from not being as appealing to society because of the wrinkles and the flabby arms. We become unappealing to other people so they dont react the same way when we were able to feel an attraction when we were young.  We can feel disrespected. But thats what sin is doing to us. Let me give you an example ... kind of cathartic... you look at a movie star on the beach... they have the lipo and the facial reconstruction. Well they are trying to wear the bathing suit they wore when they were in their 20s.. but even with all the body work they are not looking natural in those clothes... its an expression in some way of a need for acceptance... it comes from the sorrow of loneliness or a lack of the same acceptance. Its better to gain some weight and wear a one piece. Or men wearing a different bathing suit. It can be expressed in having to work or be in some kind of relationship with someone who enforces all of your negative traits. You just know when they come in the room that they do not have your best interest. Its having to endure this situation with all of the things that go along with rejection. In this situation you do not get to chose who you work with or hang out with. Reply Quote Notify 3006  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Does sinning break fellowship with Jesus? on: October 26, 2010, 02:54:47 PM One of the movies that i think about is the Terminator because it shows that zeal for life and teaches we need to get back up. There is the man who is resisting every foe ... i compare it to praying the promises.. battling the foe on our knees.. trying to gain more ground... but then the Lord hides His face.. there is no answer from heaven... the door has been closed it seems.... but then the disaster consumes the Terminator... and he is submerged under all of the falling debris. But then he arises... he has been reduced to a mass of metal ... no flesh... and he gets up and walks out to find the foe... there it is... all of life is getting up from the falling debris to fight again. Thats how the life of prayer is.. .we resist to death.. Christ resisted to blood as an example that no man has come close to.  You see that even tho our prayers do not seem to connect us to the answer ... there are things going on in the mysteries of God that are happening every day beyond our eye sight. We are basically fighting a war that we cannot see the effects. We are fighting for territory that we cannot measure. You see these prayers are collected in heaven and they will be unleashed in the judgment. We are praying for an eternal reward. This earth is temporary.. faith will be no more on the other side. Gods word will be sight... but did you know that your prayers will be transported to have eternal effects? Do not give up... fight the good fight on your knees! Reply Quote Notify 3007  Forums / Main Forum / Re: No Grace, No conversation required. on: October 26, 2010, 02:20:20 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on October 26, 2010, 02:05:29 PM crowwoman:  "My pastor says that God often uses our greatest failure to be our greatest testimony. Me? I'm waiting on God to let me use this debt mess I created to glorify Him. Can a beautiful, innocent little child created in the image of God but way too early in the process not be an even greater testimony? Maybe I'm not seeing this correctly, but I want to think about things." K_k:  Well, my highly addictive nature qualifies me to speak about Christ's power to free us.  My being illegitimate helps move me to tell others about our perfect heavenly Dad.  My past homosexual orientation gives me understanding in dealing with gays.  My previous poverty qualifies me to encourage others wondering if God can take care of them.  So i can look forward to joining you in proclaiming His great provision.  (His is) A good life, isn't it! What did the apostle say about his upbringing? He talked about His vicious conquest to carry out the law. It was the most obnoxious sin in comparison to all other sins.. the sin of coveting. You know what it qualified him for?... being the one to throw all of his past accomplishments and viciousness as an example of zeal... into the trash heap of the valley of genna. He did not exalt his past sins and obedience... what he exalted was Christ power over these things. What gave Him the maturity was not the old experience but the maturity of Christ. That is why he brought that experience to everyone who was going through what he went through so that the apostle could tell them that it was rubbish.. to live is Christ and to die is gain. Reply Quote Notify 3008  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Does sinning break fellowship with Jesus? on: October 26, 2010, 01:53:35 PM There is one verse that people always go to... and it stands out in the Psalms... because the Psalms are cries from people who are sinners who extol the Lord for His forgiveness. The Psalm tho is alluding to how a christian views Gods constant Fatherly presence by point out what happens to the chaff by alluding to personal sin. Its the verse that says "if i regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me... thank God He has heard my prayer! "What he is saying in this context is that a wicked man is stained with his own personal sins.. the wicked man has no other remedy. The Lord does not hear the prayers of the wicked. So he is looking at his own sin in light of the other wicked man ... then he extols God for hearing him in spite of his sin. I hate doing this.. but in context of Gods authority ..to even think that we can please God on our own is sheer folly. No one wants to talk about the elephant in the room. The utter devastation of Gods pre ordained curse on this earth and on mankind. God does not want to placate a mans guilt... God wants to put the most painful curse on a man in sin that it is as God as the dead walking. The earth is dead men walking. The curse is so powerful that men are most comfortable in thinking that they have power over their own success their own health.. their own position.. Men are the most hate filled ;murders ... who would not think twice about extinguishing God if they could. God must keep men on a leash if they are to be saved from themselves! The most loving thing God could do to man is cut their life spans to 70 yrs. Every sin that man commits is the ultimate affront to God. God is in the busness of cursing mens ancestors.. their live stock.. their personal wealth.. their personal well being and their mental capacity. God is gracious to allow men to enjoy any pleasure while they await ultimate judgment. God not only hates sin but God curses sinners.  You need to understand that the sin question is a matter of confession to be answered. But confession does not take away sin... because we never confess all of our sins and our own works cannot make us acceptable to God. But our attitude toward our sins is one of concern. We are feeling our sins but we are not marked by our sins! It balances out with the verse... "If you oh Lord kept a record of sins then who could stand?" Well thats the other end of the same concept... God does keep a record of sin... Rite? He does not forgive every mans sin! The point is that the Psalmist uses comparisons to show the greatness of the mercy and love of our Father. In stead of taking away our confidence it actually encourages complete honesty. Reply Quote Notify 3009  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Woo Hoo! Gouda made the Broadcast! on: October 26, 2010, 01:35:54 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on October 26, 2010, 01:25:05 PM mbG:  "Heres the real questions Kk... did you ever go to an event that you were at odds with some of the people... uh... murderer!!! Look at the poor Apostle... thank God for Barnabas or the apostle would have been turned into the authorities and roasted on a stake... read the account ... my friend. So you dont like adultery ....... ever committed fornication? Ever lusted on another mans wifey? i find it hard to believe ...especially in this rather ... barbaric society!" K_k:  No, the question is should i, as a Believer in Christ, go to an event that glorifies and legitimizes sin?  Notice that Barnabas didn't go to a party celebrating Saul when he was a Christian hunter/killer.  Instead, he stood up for a repentant, reformed Saul who became Paul. Have i ever committed fornication?  Sure.  Should i as a Believer go to a "fornication celebration"?  I think not, unless i'm following the Spirit's guidance to help someone get free of fornication addiction. Have i ever lusted after another man's wife?  Sure.  But i don't go to "porno parties" or "wife-swapping"  parties unless i feel led to present Jesus as the Way to freedom from lust addiction. Just apply the same principle to all well-defined (by God) sin. Kk ... you did the program... you got the certificate... i so want to be like you... the ultimate modern day hero.... and you are sooooo accepting of every ones beliefs... a real loving dude.... the fornication has been dealt with... no more lusting... i want to be like KK... please God.. make me like Kk... King Kid all the way... and i will bet you havent looked at a young girls butt lately... doing the twitching of the eyes thingy too... hehe...  I will bet you dont drink either... good man.... i was at the sports bar the other day sitting and people were drinking... lots of laughter and ... well... but i was there for the game... pharisee... drunks... kind of what the world is .. .the world where everyone gets the certificate.... blah blah blah.... i like going to those events and silently meditating... its the world... A girl i was sitting next to leaned over in a slurred speech and told me what she thought of the people from miami.... i cant repeat it here but i laughed.... i wish i could be like Kk tho.  \ I aint no religious professional so i wont get into trouble. Reply Quote Notify 3010  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: October 26, 2010, 11:37:03 AM Here we see the beginning of the acts of God to bring about the new world. Its the breaking of the seals and opening the scroll ... its the word of God going out unto the ends of the earth. But there is a teaching here because there is a repetition in this lack of ability for anyone to open the scroll. If there is any place in scripture where the ability as a concept is taught it is in this portion of scripture. Where is the exaltation of man? Where is the ability of man? We weep because we see the deck of cards stacked against us unless God acts on our behalf when He decides. The message is that  He has a message of salvation in His responding to us. It is in the immediate future and it involves personal salvation in our circumstances. Who is able? Thats the question of life? Here it gives the answer! The Lamb of God is the only able one! The Lamb of God is the only one who is able to open the scroll and reveal its contents! There it is coming from Him in all the knowledge and wisdom of ability. His salvation comes in the seven spirits of God to work out His purposes on this earth. Evidently these seven spirits are the work of the Holy Spirit and they have a local place at the throne of God.  I will think about these seven spirits in relation to the personal effects of salvation. Remove Reply Quote Notify 3011  Forums / Main Forum / Re: No Grace, No conversation required. on: October 26, 2010, 11:10:30 AM Let me say one more thing. The plan of redemption turns the world upside down. Man no longer belongs to himself. He lives in a new world with a new set of powers. The earth no longer has a pull that holds man down to this earth. The dangers are not the same as the old life. We are only looking to one authority! That authority is Christ. We have only one confidence! That Confidence is in His righteousness. We are taught to wish this kind of world view on all those who belong to this new world! So the enemies are those who are self righteous! They are the ones who trust in other methods! They are the ones who gather to create the old world view in their particular organization to bring people under their own authority! Let me tell you this... the christian experience cannot be modified... copied... or created by man! The christian lives in a dangerous community! It is where false christians live by the power of the tongue to wound and destroy the unity of the new world. Listen to me... the power of the new world has already been won and given to the recipients. But this is hidden from most of the religious organizations. So religious men use their authority over other people in the way of communication in the organization. There is only two organizations on this earth. There is the supernatural organizational methods and then there is the FBI organizational methods. We must see that Christ has extended the real sins of this new kingdom to the people who thwart His power by taking this unto themselves for the purpose of removing sin. We are focusing on the methods as sin because the personal effects of righteousness are already the working principle in this new world! Read this carefully... your enemies come as angels of light in this new world.    Reply Quote Notify 3012  Forums / Main Forum / Re: No Grace, No conversation required. on: October 26, 2010, 10:53:27 AM If we believe the gospel then its a matter of confessing sin. What are we teaching? What are the dangers? Is it just a proof of unbelief to fornicate? Or is there more to unbelief than the pattern of thinking that sin is just an act? We must not play God. If we think rite about God then we will apply the right principles to individual situations. If we think rite about God then we will live a life of redeeming real sinners! If we think wrong about God then we come as the good guy with our own agenda. Any sin we practice has only one remedy. It is confession of our failure and a desire to flee unrighteousness. But we must remember that sin does not define our identity. So we just say in the authority of scripture ... do not practice that sin. But are we able to stop the sin in the other person? Do we have authority to absolve ourselves of all responsibility if we use our force to make sure that sin is not practiced any more. Are we the police of the sealed rooms with the guards standing at the door to keep a person from sinning? So the question is do we believe that confession of sin absolves sin. Is that our personal standard of not being judged by other people?If we do not want other people to point fingers at us then we must believe in real grace! The truth is that mans force does not change one sinner! It only leaves people with a sense of security in being shielded from the power of their own desires. But we are not the authority over another persons desires! Because the truth is that other people are not the authority over our own desires. We are free to chose our own direction in life and it includes sinning. We may practice a sin for a long period of time... but we are confessing that we do not want that sin to rule over us.  God is dealing with us directly through the agency of the salvation that Christ has earned. We are not what we practice we are what He has positioned us to be with the view that we are getting better. I heard a well known preacher the other day say that God does not look on sin. Uh... hey God... Let me inform you on some things that have been going on down here on earth... wow...God knows us better than we know ourselves. He sees us sin and hears our cries. He does not... now listen to me... He does not look at our sin with hatred ... we who have been identified with Christ. The Father looks on our desire that we have from our new birth. Our Father is making us like we want to be even when we are not what He knows is the standard of being! Now listen to me... real love is forgiveness... real grace is removing the sin that we just did and the one we are going to do tomorrow... removing it as far as the east is from the west! The new desire that does not over come the present sin is joined with the assurance that our sin has been removed as far as the east is from the west and we are made completely able to dwell in His presence forever and ever. We are fallen sinners sitting at a table of a King who gives us what we do not deserve! Grace I am tired of impersonal American religion. The only thing that matters in this setting is what i know in my personal worship. Because these things have been sooooo twisted ... our confidence is in our memories ... our scientific methods in plugging people into a kind of mystical universe of human powers. My we are dealing here with a person devil and our only recourse from his accusations is the secret work of God that was displayed in Christ. The real transaction starts and ends in the heart of a sinner! Reply Quote Notify 3013  Forums / Main Forum / Re: No Grace, No conversation required. on: October 25, 2010, 04:09:29 PM Very good insight RR... personal bad behavior is redeemable at  asking to be taught the right way. So there are a lot of systems that create a reality of acceptance that are very impersonal. This is why it is a long marathon when we are talking about spiritual growth. And it comes down to how we are taught .. and the condition of our personal assurance that we are going in the rite direction. We live in a day where it is easy to feel a sense of personal connection to how we view pain and pleasure in a purely mechanical and systematic epistemological impersonal reality. So that we do not understand the real nature of these personal tensions. We measure the health of a situation by the attention we give to a scientific assessment in this imaginative balance to find a solution. Its because we live in a society that encourages a systematic change by the ability to express the problem. It becomes  the healing path way incorporating realities that are connective experiences that create a persons way of changing.  But we do not always get to the personal interior motives and abrasive connections to the true experience of the up and down realism that we have going on in this other world. got to go. Reply Quote Notify 3014  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Woo Hoo! Gouda made the Broadcast! on: October 25, 2010, 02:42:46 PM Heres the real questions Kk... did you ever go to an event that you were at odds with some of the people... uh... murderer!!! Look at the poor Apostle... thank God for Barnabas or the apostle would have been turned into the authorities and roasted on a stake... read the account ... my friend. So you dont like adultery ....... ever committed fornication? Ever lusted on another mans wifey? i find it hard to believe ...especially in this rather ... barbaric society!  Oh man... we are christians are not we? We have the old rose colored glasses on.... lets get these people ... plugged in so they can mingle with the good people... lmbo.. oh to prove my point... lmao. Reply Quote Notify 3015  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3"O" on: October 25, 2010, 02:14:18 PM You guys are painting a picture about us that is not what we look like. We are not on the side of anti freedom of the will. We are simply asking the question ... what is true freedom? Just because a person is prohibited from doing something does not mean that his personal freedom has been stripped from him. I mean we could claim that you guys are like the promise of universal health coverage. You argue for a freedom that you cannot provide in real terms. We are the ones who are trying to avoid both extremes. So the question is not about providing something that you think is a middle ground that we can all agree on. We are simply asking where is the cause of a thing that exist? Because just like the promise of universal health coverage that cannot possibly cover every person so we are aware that the definitions in this debate are really what defines freedom. What we are saying to you is that your definition of equal forces in a choice is not a real choice. This is like going to get your coverage and there is no provision in real terms. We are saying that in order for there to be a real choice there needs to be evidence in the action. The question is not one of scope but its what the cause of the choice is. Because for every reality there is a cause. The earth was not created by equal forces of good and evil. The earth was created by God. You see the creation and it speaks of a creator.  So what we are saying is that all of the reality of creation is in the Creator. The proof of His work is the evidence of His will exercised. What we are saying is that freedom is in the choice that is from a cause. A person is free to chose by his own condition of his own soul. We are saying that freedom is extended to the persons mind... his physical predispositions... and his understanding of the object of choice that gives him the ability to chose for himself.  You guys are offering a universal double negative. You saying that a person cannot have a motive as the force that makes that persons will subject to the person. Your idea of freedom is that it must not have any prior force in order for it to be real freedom. It is like promising that there is really universal coverage for every citizen. But that is not reality.