Sunday, November 8, 2015

3016  Forums / Main Forum / Re: No Grace, No conversation required. on: October 25, 2010, 01:31:26 PM
Ok... i wanted to avoid this... but why dont we go ahead and outlaw the aids meds? I mean... that is a bridge to more bad behavior? Is it wrong for a christian to have friends that are not christian? Whos business is it to make a person change their behavior? Is the purpose for going to ultimately get this person to change their behavior? We are free in Christ to develop relationships with people that are not the ...so called ..plugged into some kind of behavioral therapy. Why dont we start boycotting sinning?
The adults get to drink adult beverages because we respect their freedom to have the possibility to over indulge. The reality is that we have no power over another persons will. Only God can change that person. God is in the business of changing the persons mind first before He changes their behavior. God does this by loving the person in a relationship. We religious people are the ones who play God.
  
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3017  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: October 24, 2010, 01:24:59 PM
All scripture is profitable for encouragement. What we need to see here is the vision of God and how He has designed creation to run in light of His own desire and person. These responses in worship are not just general purposes in the fallen universe that God controls but they are relating to the vision of God as He is in the perfect view of what He does in this fallen world. You have all of these symbolic characteristics of God of which we are personally connect to in this fallen world.

The physical descriptions describe how they relate to our spiritual and physical senses. They connect us to this eternal procession in which God works out the events of this world as it relates to this vision of who He is. In a sense the earthly worship is a small resemblance to the heavenly one. But the reason the heavenly vision of worship is much more clear is because it reveals the hidden supernatural view of what happens in this side of looking through a dark glass. This is why God encourages us to focus because the more we know God the more we see the details of
Gods purposes being carried out in who He is!

So we are always coming before the blazing lamps of the seven spirits of God. We are always in need of the fire from Heaven as the only encouragement that we have found God. The sight and sounds are these events in history that show Gods finger prints so that we know God does what ever He pleases. So we come before a God who is most beautiful in the representation of ultimate color.. who is most fierce in the sounds that come from His throne and who is most wise in the detail of the unseen that precede the actions on this earth. We know that this vision of God is in every place because God is eternally present as God in every space.

This is why this God works in this procession of things to come to our aid in the present. Because this is our encouragement in our prayers that we are connected to these events in heaven as to how God works these things out in detail in the future.
This is why there is the opening of the beauty of God as He is shown in all of His glory to be in every event and then the actions of God as He rules from His rite hand!We are looking at a fail safe refuge on this earth that is worked our on our behalf if we ask and we plead and we focus on God!This is the fearsome throne of grace to show us that these events are worked out from the most authoritative authority ... the most High ... the supreme judge of the earth in which we are saved by the word that proceeds from His right hand and goes out unto the ends of the earth.

We see here that the angels are the messengers of Gods judgment. If you look in the old testament the angels were the door keepers of a mans demise. The angels were the unseen agents of protection or judgment. Who is able to open the scroll? The saint weeps because the angel announces. We have this relationship to angels who are messengers to protect us. This is a very mysterious relationship. But the ot saints called on the angel of the Lord to avenge the blood of the saints in battle. The word of the Lord that is a strong word is unleashed from heaven by His rite hand! Because all events that bring pain and sorrow are to avenge the saint come from His rite hand! The angels are the servants of God and they are thousands upon thousands who do the will of God and who are worthy of their work!    
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3018  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The incredible shrinking economy on: October 22, 2010, 10:03:29 AM
Rush

....."Now, I want to go to a column that ran a couple days ago in the Wall Street Journal: "The Overseas Profits Elephant in the Room."  It's co-written by John Chambers and Safra Catz.  John Chambers is the CEO of Cisco.  They make routers and stuff, another high-tech firm.  "During last year's 'Jobs Summit' --" you know, I'd forgotten about that.  Do we not need another jobs summit?  Remember that jobs summit?  We had a jobs summit in December at the White House, and everybody went away to their study groups, came back in three hours, reported to the leader of the regime, and that was supposed to be problem solved.  Well, Mr. Chambers says:  "During last year's 'Jobs Summit,' President Obama said he was open to any good idea to get the economy moving again. Today he should be especially so, since Washington's many monetary and fiscal policy decisions have not been able to spur the robust growth or job expansion that we all would like. And yet there is a simple idea -- the trillion-dollar elephant in the room -- that has apparently been dismissed for no good reason.

"One trillion dollars is roughly the amount of earnings that American companies have in their foreign operations -- and that they could repatriate to the United States. That money, in turn, could be invested in U.S. jobs, capital assets, research and development, and more.  But for U.S companies such repatriation of earnings carries a significant penalty: a federal tax of up to 35%. This means that U.S. companies can, without significant consequence, use their foreign earnings to invest in any country in the world -- except here."  Which is what Google is doing.  They're doing it.  They are avoiding the 35% tax rate here.  If they expatriate the money back they're looking at double taxation.  "But, Rush, but, Rush, they're liberals and they're good citizens and they care about funding the government."  No, they don't.  They care about you doing it.  They thrive on you thinking they're good citizens.  They thrive on you thinking they're good people.
Remember the "we're supposed to look the other way" monologue the other day after Dingy Harry and Sharron Angle's debate?  We're supposed to look the other way while they drive women off the bridge and kill 'em.  We're supposed to look the other way while they promote abortion.  We're supposed to look the other way while they don't pay, all because they're good people, all because they have compassion.  We're supposed to look the other way and really ignore all the rotgut things that they do, because they are good people.  They're liberals.  They pay their fair share.  They believe in government.

"The U.S. government's treatment of repatriated foreign earnings stands in marked contrast to the tax practices of almost every major developed economy, including Germany, Japan, the United Kingdom, France, Spain, Italy, Russia, Australia and Canada, to name a few. Companies headquartered in any of these countries can repatriate foreign earnings to their home countries at a tax rate of 0%-2%. That's because those countries realize that choking off foreign capital from their economies is decidedly against their national interests."  By the way, have you checked out Canada's economic growth rate since 1997?  I mean just a few miles to the north of us there is an economic boom going on in what arguably is a socialist country.  Check it out the next time you have a chance to check something out.  "Especially with corporate bond rates falling below 4%, it's hard to imagine any responsible corporation," including Google, "repatriating foreign earnings at a combined federal and state tax rate approaching 40%."  Why would they do it? 

"Many commentators have pointed to the large cash balances sitting on U.S. corporate books as evidence that the economy is still stalled because companies aren't spending," or because small business isn't borrowing. "That analysis misses the point. Large cash balances remain on U.S. corporate books because U.S. companies can't spend their foreign-held cash in the U.S. without incurring a prohibitive tax liability." Now, some people would say it's only 35%. They get to keep 65%, why would they want to screw the government out it?  If there's a place to spend it where it's taxed less, that's what they're going to do.  Remember, a company doesn't exist to support the government.  A company doesn't exist to give you health care.  A company does not exist to provide jobs.  A company does not exist to make sure the community remains crime free.  A company does not exist to make sure that you don't eat trans fat.  A company exists to make a profit based on selling a product or service that customers want, desire, love, and like, and whose shareholders invest in and are rewarded as their investment increases in value.  A to B, simple.  And anything that gets in the way of that pattern is gonna harm the corporation, they're not going to do it, unless they're scared to death of government, have to pay protection racket fees, bribes, and what have you, in order to operate. 

Back to Mr. Chambers' piece here: "By permitting companies to repatriate foreign earnings at a low tax rate -- say, 5% -- Congress and the president could create a privately funded stimulus of up to a trillion dollars," private sector stimulus.  "They could also raise up to $50 billion in federal tax revenue. That's money the economy would not otherwise receive.  The amount of corporate cash that would come flooding into the country could be larger than the entire federal stimulus package, and it could be used for creating jobs, investing in research, building plants, purchasing equipment, and other uses. It could also provide needed stability for the equity markets because companies would expand their activity in mergers and acquisitions, and would pay dividends or buy back stock. And when markets go up, confidence increases and businesses and consumers begin to spend."  It's simple.

"The $50 billion boost in federal tax revenue, meanwhile, could be used to help put America back to work. For example, Congress could use it to give employers -- large or small -- a refundable tax credit for hiring previously unemployed workers (including recent graduates). The tax credit could equal up to 50% of a worker's first-year and second-year wages, capped at $12,500 per year (or $25,000 total per new hire).  Such a program could help put more than two million Americans back to work at no cost to the government or American taxpayers. How's that for a good idea?"  John Chambers, chief executive officer, Cisco Systems.  The coauthor, Ms. Catz, president of Oracle, two high-tech corporations, there you have it.  A trillion dollars is over there, and over there, up there, and down there.  It ain't here.  Could be here.  It's in Canada because Canada only charges 2% tax rate.  We charge 35%, and of course with this regime, corporations are evil, they're the enemy, they're the target.  Anybody suggesting this seriously would be accused of being in the back pockets of the special interests and so forth.  And, of course, it is considered immoral for a corporation to only pay 5% in taxes, for some reason it's immoral. 

So why would Google pay 35% when they can pay 2.4%?  "Because, Mr. Limbaugh, they're good liberal corporate citizens.  Yeah, you dummkopf, that's what they want you and everybody to believe, Mr. New Castrati.  If all corporations are evil, how does Google get a pass just because they're a bunch of liberals anyway?" 
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3019  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 21, 2010, 11:33:55 AM
cont... how is God in control?... first He looks a the secret intents of a mans heart and He thwarts the purposes of men. God brings to an end a mans evil purposes. He works through men to create personal situations where the evil that flourishes because of ungodly men is Gods vengeance toward them in the consequences. For every enjoyment of sin there is a return of guilt and sorrow to erase the pleasure of sin. Or God may work the pleasure of sin to be a special eternal punishment in God allowing it to be worse than it is... by allowing a man to enjoy it longer.

God works in His children a distaste for sin...by shielding them from temptation... showing them that Gods pleasures are much greater... or developing in them humility. When God uses sin to humble is saints He works in them the wisdom to understand the problems with the sin.. and He draws them closer to Himself in the gifts of grace as the teaching motif to add more knowledge of God. The highest praise on this side of heaven is out of a deep sense of unworthiness and an enjoyment of feasting at the Kings table. God must rule through the Royal line of His children in this way so that evil men will be thwarted by this generation and given the just consequences of not giving Christ all of the glory for moral ability.

 God uses the gifts earned by the wicked to encourage His saints. God increases the wealth of the world that we live in by making the wicked a slave to the worlds power. God looks at the heart because His system of rewards are upside down. While men run after power and wealth of this world... the saints give up their lives for God. God rewards these saints with the sweat equity created by the wicked. God uses the slumber of His people who are always going astray to show the wicked that His children are loved in a family system and not a utilitarian system.  
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3020  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 21, 2010, 11:00:37 AM
We live in a supernatural universe. The universe is changing from one day to the next. We live in two worlds. The real world is a world of redemption and the imaginary world is a system world. Because men refuse to submit to Gods authority they develop their own systems as a way to conduct themselves. This is why evil and corruption are not measured by the immoral acts themselves but evil is created by to turn the real world upside down by a world system of checks and balances to force men to conform to its standards. This is why God must be in complete control or the world system would be run the course of complete confusion and unjust consequences. Because God alone is the judge... He looks at the reality... He looks at the hearts of men... the world system is a place of turmoil where men look at the outward appearance.

This is why the world system is a religious system of threats and rewards. Because men are born with a god consciousness. Every image that a man entertains is through the lens of his desire to worship some kind of other image. Man has a incurable disease to worship and image of what he values the most about himself. Every man is in between life and death with the natural tendencies to worship gods that are dead. This is why God must be in absolute control because God must come to man to lead him to life.

 This is why man cannot have a religious conviction without it being tainted by sin and death. The first thought of a man is to conspire something to weave a web of deceit in expressing his personal power through threats and rewards. These two distinct worlds are men who think they are independent of God and able to make up their own power structures or a universe in which God does as He pleases in real justice. Man looks at the religious formalism... God looks at the subtle threats and the motives for a man who has power. God never sleeps...nor slumbers.. but His eye is always looking at the motives of men ... the system of the world and He is moving all of these unseen workings to be for His glory and for our good. God alone determines when we are going to rise or fall.

 God sees everything. God sees the whole history of the world. God knows the details of the system of man because He has determined them by a decree. God has already seen all of the schemes of man from the beginning of time. God knows these evils ... nothing takes God by surprise. When men make promises.. and change for ten yrs .. but fall back into a bad habit ... Gods eye is on the 70 yrs and He is moving in the long term motif. When a man develops a system and it is implemented through 2 generations... God knows it is evil and He knows sees the beginnings of the mans evil plot on his own bed. God sees the smallest evil that grows into a universal corruption. Because God must be God and He must rule every thought or men would have already destroyed the earth.

 This is why evil starts in the darkness ... of mans heart... in the secret watches of the night... in the mind .. in the universe of ideas. Evil is not necessarily a threat from the lips.. or a fight between two men... but evil is a threat against Gods authority.    
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3021  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Death of the "eternal torture" doctrine on: October 19, 2010, 11:55:59 AM
Kk.. i just want to respond to the eternal torture accusation. God is going to leave men in the blindness that they chose. God did not force men to blindness. Men do not want to go to a place where everyone is bowing down and worshiping God. Men do not see that as important.
But God will leave them to themselves in eternity. There is no fire but there is loneliness and isolation and grief. All of the things that men would desire.
But you are saying that the will to live is not important to God when you teach annihilation. You are encouraging suicide. God gave man the will to live because God is good. The will to live is good. It will not be destroyed at the judgment. 
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3022  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 19, 2010, 11:20:15 AM
God will destroy all of our enemies. King David was a man who was an example of this. What ever we ask in His name He will do. Who can separate us from the love of God? God raises up the enemies of the faith so that He will show us that He alone has the power to bring them down. Our problem is not the opposition but its our trust that we can bring them down. But God makes it so that we are not able.

 This is why we know the trial to be in our favor! Because we are cast into a position in which we are fiercely looking to a power that we are reverencing and in watching Gods destructive ways we find great reverence that we could be in such devastating and powerful company. Have you seen the power of God bring destruction? Have you watched in utter helplessness to do one thing about it but only to allow God to do as He promised? Do you know that God will rule over men... because men refuse to bow down to God? We are represented by the name and authority of God and He will uphold that name in us. Let God be God.
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3023  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 19, 2010, 11:03:13 AM
The vision of God is His spoken word that comes in His ruling us ... His watching over us as His royal children... His revealing to us that He was in Christ reconciling us to Himself by His word and work alone and His searching eye always moving to change us in His own time in-spite of all of the promises that are fleeting. God is changing us by His secret searching. This is why He alone is not surprised by our weakness and sin... it is we who respond with anxiety.

Because God is working in us to make us totally dependent on Him alone for our honor. The world promises success... comfort...change.. and community. God comes alone to do the work in us by a still small voice. There is ultimately on one voice we can trust . Because God is the only one who can change the heart of a man. Everything we say and do is unto the glory and pleasure of God. Every thing we think... every trial we encounter.. every relationship we have starts from our own view of reality. We develop that reality with a sense of self worth that we trust in things and people that we think are like a god. But the truth is we are the only ones who can be content with ourselves in our own minds. Because God changes us even tho we do not see His work being done and we develop these views by our not knowing they have changed the way we think. God alone is the only one who we can trust for our honor because God knows us better than we know ourselves.

This is why we must look to God alone for everything. Because we do not have the foresight to deal with the hidden sins and our temptations that will come to us. We only have the present experience that God is powerful. This is why we trust that God will do all of the changing of everything we understand in this world without our own work in it. Because of the present promise to be a God who takes all of our burdens upon Himself in order that our comfort might be in Him alone and not in something in the future action!! We can be totally transparent in Gods company as the only one on this earth as if there was nothing else determining our reality. We can have our own worth and value of the weight of our existence placed in Gods hands as a present comfort that the past is forgotten and the future is fleeting on this earth. We can rise to a level of spiritual weightlessness even if the world is condemning us.
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3024  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 19, 2010, 10:22:19 AM
This is a counsel that never falls short of its mark. It is super naturalism in action. Because it is word and Spirit counsel in the power of the tongue. I mean the tongue is under the authority of the Name of Christ as long as it is speaking His word. So it is what reveals the heart. Or it manifest what we have been taught by the Spirit. We have loose tongues because we do not think Gods thoughts on a level of application to our own hearts.

The tongue is the instrument to preach the gospel to ourselves. It is the active instrument that gives us self application. Most people use the tongue to create their own image. Or to encourage a false worship. Because ... the mind produces the reality of the world as a fantasy of what is communicated from our own lips. This is why we look to God for our only reality because what God says is what we are represented unto...its the reality of Gods spoken words that are not like the communication of this earth. We talk to ourselves in gospel language so that we will show that we belong to another God.

The tongue creates the direction of our life.

We do not believe in super-naturalism and so we speak as if we are not a different person by our being united with Christ. If we do not remind ourselves of our new name then we will always talk like the old identity. The old identity is not predominately a cursed identity by bad words but its in the vision we have about our world and ourselves. The old identity is not familiar with the new representative of the Word made flesh... or the supernatural reminder of a new name. So we naturally speak like a little god maker.
We must teach ourselves the gospel as a way to long to be taught the deep things of God. Our vision is ordered from the spoken word of God or the image of the new man as defined by being represented by Christ authority. We apply the gospel by speaking it to ourselves as a reminder that our world is not like the world of communication of this earth. If we speak about vision it is in a different world in our knowing it by experience. We live in supernatural sayings that create a reality that things are going to be much better than we could ever ask or imagine. The tongue creates the taste of our new direction so that we imagine something that is much greater than the communication of this world.    
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3025  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: October 19, 2010, 09:53:44 AM
I hope to compare my knowledge of the old testament teaching of the glory of God as it is displayed in Revelation in a more illuminated way. These concepts of worship are universal. There are different parallels to the paradigms of our worshiping God on this earth with the worship in heaven. There is a kind of doxology at the end of ch.4 in which the response of the elders pronounces to the glory of God.

 The images are most glorious and beautiful. The central idea is in the vision of the participants around the throne. The eternal nature of the worship is represented by the circular position of all of the beings expressing their worship to God in an eternal way. As you have the initial response of worship the elders respond to living creatures. The elders who are farthest away have a kind of reward motif while the creatures are focused the knowledge and vision of God. The vision of God is so glorious that it demands a continual response of the ultimate worship. Giving God all of the glory.

 At no time is the attention drawn away from the glory of God. Even the elders lay their crowns before the throne. They continuously give God the glory by laying their crowns prior to the last doxology of giving God all of the glory. This is why the glory of God goes out unto the ends of the earth. Because the brightness of the glow from His throne is what lightens of off eternity. There are reflective instruments to enhances the light of the glory of God. But the vision of God and the brightness of His glory is so great that there is no other focus in this passage. Everyone surrounding the throne are focused on God.
This is why the earthly worship is a very small comparison to the heavenly one. Because it is not all glorious since we live in a corrupted place where the glory is veiled. Our focus in worship is on the shadows. This side of heaven is one of word and Spirit worship. There is no focus on the physical aspects of worship . We are all one body of Christ as a spiritual body. We are members of one another as our individualism is directed toward God in private.

 We must not take the glory to ourselves since we live in this view of these things as looking through a dark glass. We must focus on the worship that is in heaven. Because we view ourselves in a comparative to the reality of the ultimate worship. So we are always reminding ourselves that worship is not about us. I do not mean to say that we never experience being human. I am simply saying that there is a level of experience that we rise to that is a glimpse of heaven. So we are always struggling through temptation... trials... sin... anxiety of this earth... to try to gain a reviving of our former ways.

The bible uses these heavenly pictures to help us gain a sense of Gods presents so that we know when God comes then everything is put in its proper place. Just like there are creatures that are authoritatively looking into these paradigms of redemptive teaching and giving us a knowledge of the worship of God.. so there is the authoritative place we have over the world in taking refuge under the shadow of His wings. That psalm is a reflective view of the heavenly worship. We lie down in strength before the puddles of Baca... in light of our emanate victory over our foes. It is our appealing to the right hand of Him who sits on the throne. A most active and powerful succession of future events.
Because the procession to the temple is up to the top of the mountain and then God rules from the worship in the temple mount. We lie down before the still waters because we have a Shepherd ... Ruler who prepares our table before our enemies. A reminder of the crystal sea of glass where we find Gods reflective glory most vibrant and beautiful. Now we see through a dim glass but then we shall see face to face.    

    
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3026  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 17, 2010, 09:58:26 PM
http://www.oneplace.com/player/living-grace/he-is-our-peace-part-one-139126.html
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3027  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3"O" on: October 16, 2010, 08:40:15 PM

squall:  "Calvinism "does" reconcile the key terms you mentioned above,  which no other theology can."

K_k:  We will see that a different approach than calvinism can reconcile much more Scripture than it does, since that theology has to redefine, in many places, "all" to mean "some",  the "world" to mean "the elect", "everyone" to mean "a few", etc.

Can you sharpen my iron on this a little, please?   kiss
If "all" is always everyone then here are some verses where all is according to the context and cannot possibly be everyone.

Luke 7:29
29(All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus' words, acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John.
If "all" means everyone then what about the Pharisees  ? They hated John and certainly did not get baptized by him.

# John 3:26
They came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him."
John 3:25-27
Here "everyone" is used.... again is this the entire human race in the holy land and then to the ends of the earth?

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

Here is a direct statement that makes it clear that "all" cannot mean everyone... the Pharisees were not included!

# Mark 1:5
The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

Here "whole" and "all" that means every person in Jerusalem? What about the sick... the dieing.. the children the Pharisees... and those who could not travel by foot?  KKs if it is impossible to translate this as the entire world then you must translated with more than saying that "all" means the entire world. You must have other scriptures to back it up. You must have more than just one reason. You must go according to the context.. near and far. Thats what we are doing. STP has already shown you that not everyone who has come on this earth is a friend of God. Because of other verses "reconcile" is strictly a christian relationship with our Father in heaven. "All" is not translated "everyone"... just like these verses above.
KK the men you are so quick to disagree with had an education in biblical grammar. Calvin... Austin... Luther...etc  were able to translate the original language both hebrew and greek into the english. Your not a scholar..... KK.
.
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3028  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3"O" on: October 16, 2010, 11:01:09 AM
Let me say one more thing... Gods love is bigger than mans ability to paint an earthly picture of salvation. Thats what Paul was saying in Rom. 9... the apostle was saying that Gods sovereign will and mans tendency to blame God produced the vision of love conquering hate and anger because the Glory of God cannot be put in a box. Where ever Gods glory is manifested it is all encompassing ... He does not share His glory with any man. He accomplishes HIs purposes in the midst of the most supreme blame! Why would you think that you could thwart Gods purposes in having the ability to accuse God of evil? Who are you oh man to talk back to God. Not unto us oh Lord ... not unto us but to your name be the glory...because ....listen ... because of your love and faithfulness! Gods supreme will rules men who are blind to His goodness in bringing glory to Himself that displays His infinite love!

 This is why we look to God for our only foundation of real goodness and kindness of our fleeting lives. We look back and we only see Gods kindness toward us. Because this is the only real foundation we have on this earth! Men come and go... generations rise and fall.. kingdoms lose their power are no more! But God goes on from one generation and receives praise from future generations that are not yet created!!!! Why because God sees the end from the beginning and all of the worth of a generation is in His purposes being fulfilled for His own pleasure before they actually come into being!!! God must be the only eternal loving and faithful God who needs no one to fulfill His purposes. He proves HIs love as He is God!! This is the beginning of wisdom... giving God the praise for being the only faithful person in all of eternity!!! Who are you oh man to talk back to God?
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3029  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3"O" on: October 16, 2010, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: biggie
If you can show me were God pronounces a person at the end in the judgment to go from a state of reconciliation to a judgment then there might be something more than an imaginative translation that you guys are presenting

Reconciliation is a two-sided relationship, not a monergistic.  The periphrastic imperfect tense of katalasso  in 2 Corinthians 5:19 rather than a perfect indicates that reconciliation is not a "done deal".  God has done what He's going to; hence the apostle pleads to the world in 5:20 to do their part - "be reconciled to God".  A plea which would be unnecessary if reconciliation were monergistic.

Therefore, you're not even asking the right question because you've already presumed monergism.

Well ... i heard this the other day... the covenant given to Abraham is the same covenant given to Moses... wow...

God promised Abraham that He would giveAbraham an offspring that was as the number of the stars. Then  God did the sacrifice Himself... no help from man. He divided the animal and walked alone down the path to reconcile man to himself. That is a separate covenant from Mt Sinai... because it is a covenant of grace. This is a covenant of promise. It is one sided. It is God promising to accomplished in Christ ... it is God displaying His eternal love... for mans hate... His faithfulness for mans unfaithfulness... His promises for traitors... and His eternal kindness for mans meanness. This covenant cannot be thwarted.

 Then you come to the law covenant. This was filled with stipulations. God said you must keep the law... the people said we will keep the whole law. But this was a two sided covenant. This covenant brought the people to the end of themselves. This covenant brought the people into relationships with all of the curses of God. This covenant was the foundation for the receiving all of the curses. Because the law pronounces curses on any of the ones how break the least of these commands. Yes this is the so called relational covenant... this is the one that demands all relationships to be normal...this is the one that creates trouble in all of the communication between humans who break it. This is the unbending covenant.
Look if you look to this covenant you will be crushed under its condemnation. It will destroy your body.. your will to live.. your wish that all things were just. It is the stumbling block because it was fulfilled in Christ so that we would forever stop looking at the covenant of works and only look to the covenant of the promise. Men are cursed because men think they can produce enough goodness to balance out the scales of the Mosaic covenant. They dash themselves against the Stone the builders rejected. They refuse to look to Christ alone!
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3030  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: A Story on: October 16, 2010, 10:11:20 AM
Shalom, mybigGod.

If there is no final judgment on an individual then there is no real personal responsibility for sin. The threat of judgment is the reality of the judgment. If there is no real punishment out of the threat of judgment then there is no consequences of the actions of personal relations to the moral universe. God would not be God in carrying out His will on the earth. This is why it is absolutely necessary that God impute the sin of Adam to the human race.  So that man would be totally corrupted as a result of the sin of Adam.

This is all corrected in the need to give a clear definition to the doctrines that are realistically set forth in scripture as the proof that the world is a history of Gods redeeming His people. God must be a real Savior... the people must be absolutely helpless and without hope.. and the world must be a place of death and destruction and in need of real renewal. The threat of eternal punishment forces the need for salvation and redemption to be defined by God and not man. One act of man threw the whole world into a state of death and punishment ... one act of God brought man and the creation back into a state of renewal and reward. Sin is the cause of death and Christ work of redemption is the cause of life. The most personal responsible understanding we have is understanding the clear definitions of this salvation so that we know the effects we experience on this earth as the causal nature of our need and purpose. This is the doctrinal approach as opposed to mixing philosophy with scripture. Everything was caused by the will of God in a decree or a passive decree.
Rev. 4
 11"You are worthy, our Lord and God,
   to receive glory and honor and power,
   for you created all things,
      and by your will they were created
      and have their being."

I understand your point of view and I am not a Universalist; however, I could see where a Universalist would have a problem with your statements here:

"God must be a real Savior... the people must be absolutely helpless and without hope.. and the world must be a place of death and destruction and in need of real renewal. The threat of eternal punishment forces the need for salvation and redemption to be defined by God and not man. One act of man threw the whole world into a state of death and punishment ... one act of God brought man and the creation back into a state of renewal and reward."

If people are "absolutely helpless and without hope," and "the threat of eternal punishment forces the need for salvation and redemption to be defined by God," then why would God choose to save some but not others, since it is all of Him?

Seems to me that Universalism is simply what happens when a 5-point Calvinist meets "hope springs eternal."

What do you think?

In the Messiah's love,
Roy

Heres the thing about our differences... People like to hear these words as concepts that are distinguished having a nice and friendly conversation as opposed to a harsh and unbending confrontation. Being nice is using words like love... understanding... compromise etc.... as opposed to warning... language that stimulates a person the end of human ability.... warning of judgment and the hopelessness of this world. There are extremes on both sides. But the good language can be the most damaging to gospel. Because love is a demand of obedience ... meeting all the requirements of the law... and nice is not always one sided...friendly is a smile but what about the deeper issues? The meanest concepts are couched in the sweetest language.
Until we get our terms clear. Because we really believe that the nicest concepts come from Gods salvation to mankind. The harshest relations comes from man corrupting Gods terms. The danger is not in the mass murdering of the human race.. because these kinds of men are not prevalent. The danger is when a man creates a law unto himself for the purpose of exercising power over other people. When a man refuses to give God all of the glory then all of his relationships on this earth are corrupted. Because he demands from others a love that he does not practice. The nicest predisposition a man can acquire is to understand the teaching so that he doesnt apply the corruption to his relationships.

 The most obnoxious and unbending people are the religious Pharisees. If you look at the old testament teaching of a fool ... on the one hand it is the mass murderer ... but it is not just that man... it also swings to the religious man... it is the man who gains power by his mean spirited religion. Both of these men in the ot wisdom books are defined as the same men. This is why when you come to the NT.... Christ is pronouncing curses on the Pharisees.

It is essential that we give God all of the work in salvation. That is what distinguishes a man who is a Pharisee from a covenant man. We must not take glory for anything God accomplishes in our lives. We must conclude as we look back that we have been powerless and God did everything. This is the salvation message that has been passed down from one generation to another.  
3031  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3"O" on: October 16, 2010, 09:26:13 AM
Oh for...  Can't you recognize hyperbole when you see it?  And can you recognize when "all" is not used hyperbolicly? 

Joker ... you go through a process when you translate scripture. You look at the context both in the passage itself and the entire bible. You cant just look at it and say thats hyperbole. The biggest hyperbole used in this argument by you guys is to say that all is "everyone" in the world is reconciled to God but in reality most people are not in heaven. If you can show me were God pronounces a person at the end in the judgment to go from a state of reconciliation to a judgment then there might be something more than an imaginative translation that you guys are presenting... yours is the ultimate hyperbole. I see the saints and the aints. 
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3032  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3"O" on: October 16, 2010, 09:09:45 AM

squall:  "Calvinism "does" reconcile the key terms you mentioned above,  which no other theology can."

K_k:  We will see that a different approach than calvinism can reconcile much more Scripture than it does, since that theology has to redefine, in many places, "all" to mean "some",  the "world" to mean "the elect", "everyone" to mean "a few", etc.

Can you sharpen my iron on this a little, please?   kiss
If "all" is always everyone then here are some verses where all is according to the context and cannot possibly be everyone.

Luke 7:29
29(All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus' words, acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John.
If "all" means everyone then what about the Pharisees  ? They hated John and certainly did not get baptized by him.

# John 3:26
They came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him."
John 3:25-27
Here "everyone" is used.... again is this the entire human race in the holy land and then to the ends of the earth?

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

Here is a direct statement that makes it clear that "all" cannot mean everyone... the Pharisees were not included!

# Mark 1:5
The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

Here "whole" and "all" that means every person in Jerusalem? What about the sick... the dieing.. the children the Pharisees... and those who could not travel by foot?  KKs if it is impossible to translate this as the entire world then you must translated with more than saying that "all" means the entire world. You must have other scriptures to back it up. You must have more than just one reason. You must go according to the context.. near and far. Thats what we are doing. STP has already shown you that not everyone who has come on this earth is a friend of God. Because of other verses "reconcile" is strictly a christian relationship with our Father in heaven. "All" is not translated "everyone"... just like these verses above.
KK the men you are so quick to disagree with had an education in biblical grammar. Calvin... Austin... Luther...etc  were able to translate the original language both hebrew and greek into the english. Your not a scholar..... KK.
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3033  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free writing on: October 14, 2010, 01:15:26 PM
The world is in our minds. We have these relationships inside of us of people who are what we think they are. We are the enemies of our own enemies. We sometimes are predominantly our own enemy. This is a reflective view as a self image of the real image. Our knowledge of ourselves is the process to deception. Change is what we imagine by an incomplete understanding of the things as they really are. There is no security in not knowing what we are or what we apply in how we live. These images are phantom friends who are fickle and prove to be imaginations of our own little world.

We do not find realistic tension of forces in this world. But these tensions are forces that we have as imaginations of what is real opposition. How can we be confident in our own thinking? How can we be confident that we are seeing things that are real? We only find in in knowing that we do not have the ability to be dogmatic about what is real in the application.

 This is why a sense of the eternal is all mystery. Because we only find reality in God. We must disassemble our own pre conceived ideas in order to translate what we are by what is said about us by someone who knows us better than we know ourselves in the present new experience. This is why inability is wisdom.  
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3034  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Making your election sure? Why if I am elected? on: October 14, 2010, 12:43:26 PM
One of the things we must understand in the context of this assurance portion of Peters teaching is that this is not a clear addition. Hes not saying for us to make a list and add one on top of another. He is not encouraging us to get something new in order to know we are called. He is saying that it is beyond our ability to live like this unless we focus on the rite things. Learning a truth is one thing but focusing on learning in order to apply is another thing altogether.
The interesting thing in this context is that Peter points to a profound experience of a heavenly sort. He is talking about seeing the light of the glory of Christ on that second mountain. So in this sense the adding is beyond our normal processes. It is becoming something far greater than we could without this personal connection to the glory of God! Peter is say that we must go where He wants us to go beyond our ability to get there. This is God doing something in us beyond what we could do in ourselves.
Paul talks about this principle as a new understanding. He is saying that we need to be enlightened to understand. The way that Paul was encouraged to go on beyond his own learning and confidence  was to be reminded of these things that he learned and to apply them as the means to be encouraged to find greater heights of love. In other words the principle is to add is to subtract ourselves. For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.
We have a new zeal that goes beyond this earth. It is planted in our knowledge of these things and the reminder that God will work beyond our ability to see as we look into the future. The zeal must consume us... it must over come our whole view of our relationships. We must have a zeal for Gods house that is above all the relationships that we are in. Our earthly relationships must take their place as painful in comparison to the value of knowing Christ! Christ said the zeal for your house consumes me. I do not want my brothers to be responsible for my short comings because I know that it is more than my appearance on this earth. I will receive the insults that you received.. i will endure the suffering on Christ behalf. Peter understood that his own strength could not cut it after he promised not to deny Christ and then denied Him three times. Peter was looking beyond this earth to find something he could not imagine so that he had an ability that he could not claim for his own.. Peter was adding to his faith.
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3035  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3"O" on: October 14, 2010, 12:08:07 PM
Universalism is a man centered view of the world. It starts by saying that man is able to come to God on his own. This is what infects the application as the way to mix works and grace. You silence mans voice and God becomes God.
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3036  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: How Does America "Presently" View God? on: October 14, 2010, 11:59:03 AM
God is in charge of all that transpires in our society. He is involved with every conflict with the powers that be. Our problem is that we cannot entirely see how He is working because we do not see these dramatic effects in God directing these things. So we must be seeking and learning that ways of God so that we see this foreshadowing of the direct effects to transpire in the Apocalypse in the future. This is why God promises little victories so that we are not all together undone on this earth. "Call on me in the day of trouble and i will deliver you and you will honor me."
The principle in this verse is not a promise to respond to our call but a promise to overcome our trials by God performing the work in our sight and in our hearts. This is why we are Calvinist because we believe that how we view God is essential to how we see the work done on our behalf and how we grow in our understanding of these honorable realities of our own hearts. Because God is absolutely sovereign then we are most confident when we are rising to see God.
The principle here is that we believe that real vibrancy of life is in a God centered focus. We view these things in parts with a promise that we will see. Although we see through a glass darkly ...that is our prayers are stored in heaven and will have a part in the complete victory of God... yet we see foreshadows of the ultimate victory of these prayers in this life. In other words the christian life is seeking to find and finding in the end. We do not waste our time in our willing it to happen as the bases of our confidence that it will happen but we focus on Gods glory and it becomes a foretaste in our rising. This is why God automatically creates the honor we have for Him in working through the means.  
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3037  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: October 14, 2010, 11:14:14 AM
I attended a community College back in the early eighties. There was a course that i considered the most dangerous of them all and it was social studies. In my prior studies i had not been exposed to this kind of brain washing. But i came out of that class believing that it was the reason for so much of the change that had occurred in the way people communicate back then and now 25 yrs later it is ingrained in the social structure of our society. Basically it is the philosophy that relationships are understood by scientific observation and data.

There has been an effort by the christian community to mold the christian world view with this mixture. These ideas are in conflict with the scriptural approach in the way we are required to communicate.


  Our understanding of a Theo centric view of the world requires us to cast down imaginations of everything that sets itself up against the knowledge of God. The reason we do this is because there are only two ways to reason in the universe. One way is the language of worship to God the other way is a language rebellion against God. There are two direct opposing voices in this modern day conflict. It comes through in statements from repetitive teaching... you repeat something for a long time and it becomes the reality of that culture.

But we must look at the causes of the way a statement is made so that we understanding what is being accepted as a way to behave. There are statements made today that make clear references in direct opposition to the epistemological patterns of thinking of scripture. This is the language that is embedded from scientific study verses the language of a Theo centric universe.

 The bible is the standard of all matters of life. We compare the cultural norms that are the language of society.. both from the mouth and how a person views the world to the direct statements of the bible. In other words there is two distinct world views ... the Biblical world view and the godless world view. This is why the bible is the only authority in matters of life because we talk like we think that is the reality of the world we live in. We use language as way to create a world view. It is wisdom that comes out of a God centered world view.

 So we must practice thinking in terms of conflict. This is not a universe of two equal powers of ideas. We are not creators of salvation and renewal nor are we advancing something more complicated than has already been written in scripture. The world is a place where we reform by the universe of conflicting ideas. We are reformation thinkers. So we measure every word as the basis for our responsible action. We are in conflict with phrases that have been repeated over the last 3 generations that come from scientific theory.  
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3038  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: A Story on: October 14, 2010, 10:44:01 AM
If there is no final judgment on an individual then there is no real personal responsibility for sin. The threat of judgment is the reality of the judgment. If there is no real punishment out of the threat of judgment then there is no consequences of the actions of personal relations to the moral universe. God would not be God in carrying out His will on the earth. This is why it is absolutely necessary that God impute the sin of Adam to the human race.  So that man would be totally corrupted as a result of the sin of Adam.

This is all corrected in the need to give a clear definition to the doctrines that are realistically set forth in scripture as the proof that the world is a history of Gods redeeming His people. God must be a real Savior... the people must be absolutely helpless and without hope.. and the world must be a place of death and destruction and in need of real renewal. The threat of eternal punishment forces the need for salvation and redemption to be defined by God and not man. One act of man threw the whole world into a state of death and punishment ... one act of God brought man and the creation back into a state of renewal and reward. Sin is the cause of death and Christ work of redemption is the cause of life. The most personal responsible understanding we have is understanding the clear definitions of this salvation so that we know the effects we experience on this earth as the causal nature of our need and purpose. This is the doctrinal approach as opposed to mixing philosophy with scripture. Everything was caused by the will of God in a decree or a passive decree.
Rev. 4
 11"You are worthy, our Lord and God,
   to receive glory and honor and power,
   for you created all things,
      and by your will they were created
      and have their being."
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3039  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: October 13, 2010, 10:58:42 PM
Legalism: Any attempt to rely on self-effort to either attain or maintain our justification before God "After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Gal.3:3. A Definition of Legalism 1. Using the Mosaic covenant as though it is the covenant between you and God. 2. Attempting to be justified by one's own works. 3. Attempting to be sanctified by one's own works 4. Suggesting that our worth or worthlessness, our self-esteem and self-satisfaction or lack thereof, rest on our own works. 5. Any attempt to please God judicially, or any supposition that our sin as believers has resulted in his judicial displeasure. [Any post-salvation attempt to maintain our judicial standing before God through good works, covenant faithfulness, merit etc..] 6. Teaching that we conform ourselves to our judicial standing in Christ (righteous and perfect) by our own works. 7. Attempting to attain godliness by a systematic change of behavior 8. Obedience that does not spring from a renewed heart 1. As of an unbeliever who has no renewed heart 2. As of a believer who has a renewed heart but whose righteous behavior does not spring therefrom. 9. Any supposition that externally righteous acts have any value on their own, even as conduct that prepares the way for either 1. A renewed heart (preparationism as regards justification), 2. The softening or further renewing of an already renewed heart (preparationism as regards sanctification. Note Romans 12:2-Transformation occurs through the renewing of the mind), or 3. Any other work of the Spirit. 10. Suggesting that faith is irrelevant in the accomplishment of some (or all) good works. 11. Trying to be justified by works that are created and inspired by the Holy Spirit. 12. Attempting to gain assurance of salvation solely or primarily on the basis of the sign of outward works - Bill Baldwin

 I am going to wear this whole statement out on this forum. This is really insightful and needful.Read this once a day, this is the spirit of the day.

This is a very good article about these efforts to put people in a program that is directed at changing them instead of helping them ....and the dangers that result over time. http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/11/bronfman-201011
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3040  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Death of the "eternal torture" doctrine on: October 12, 2010, 03:48:41 PM

Given the silence from "officials", i assume this is not a "hill to die on" for anyone in the ministry.

So, i'll let it get pushed down in the growing stack of topics.  Before i do so, i wanted to point out that it is very relevant to some of our other discussions, since if it is true, it shows how just a simple wrong assumption (the immortality of the soul) can lead to a highly developed theology which has impacted most Christians negatively for centuries.

If the layout at the beginning of this thread is actually Scriptural, then God is glorified greatly in all His attributes, and we are cautioned to not take our human religious systems too seriously, no matter how tightly we have held on to them.  The Word of God is living and active, and cannot really be crystallized.

If God is not taking our religious theologies too seriously then can you at least acknowledge that you might be wrong about eternal punishment? Its not God i am concerned about its Kks reasoning.
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3041  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3A on: October 12, 2010, 03:45:29 PM
KK of course is the non dogmatic guy who doesnt hold to a standard of belief... ok... a theological system... wow... who is pulling the wool over whos eyes?... KK i am as dogmatic as you are disagreeing with me. Lets come to an agreement by saying that salvation is in God alone. Ok?
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3042  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: October 12, 2010, 11:24:13 AM
cont....

We need to understand here that the events in heaven are a culmination of the struggles that have transpired on the earth in Gods working though the worship of His church. We are not beyond the Apocalyptic language. We still must see God destroy the realities that we face in our daily lives. This is why the Psalms go in and out of this future destroy wish. Every act of worship is bringing about the destruction of sin and evil. The final worship will be a final wish that is brought into reality. The prayers according to the will of God are a foreshadowing of the victory of the great war that are in line with the saints in heaven who desire the destruction of the wicked and wickedness. We are standing in heavenly worship when we use this Apocalyptic language.
This seems to be a non threatening world we live in the US. But we are not comparing it to the OT church but we are looking at the glory of God manifested in the history of redemption. This plan of redemption is not a denial of the evil that will be utterly destroyed by God in the future war.. but it is in line with the heavenly worship prior or in the final Apocalypse. The prayers that are stored in heaven are the will of God in this final apocalyptic event.
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3043  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Kingdom of God on: October 12, 2010, 10:45:45 AM
The kingdom of Gods ruling effects are manifested most on this earth in the worship of His church. We come before a host of heavenly beings who are looking in from eternity. The looking is not like our looking in from the outside on an event. But this looking is in the knowledge and wisdom of who God is in all of His glory. These unseen powers are at work as the means by which God renews the hearts of men. The farther away the messenger is from the authoritative structure of revealing God the less power that man has in the working out of the renewal. This is why all men are subject to the word as to its going out both prophet and sheep.

But we are coming to the throne of God in our worship. This throne is actively reordering the events and conditions of Gods people. We are not only receiving the word in its power but we are receiving the gospel work on the heart through the pure message of the gospel because we are receiving the renewal as if it were before the throne of God!

And in this throne God is searching our hearts. He is doing a work on our hearts that we do not understand. These realities that are hidden in our sin are being made to us the way to understand ourselves in light of our circumstances. God is coming in all of His royalty ... in His power... in His revealing Himself in Christ... and in His Fatherly care as He makes known these realities by His personal voice.. to search out our hearts and to bring us closer to the realities of the universe. Not only is He searching and working in this great mystery but He is sending out His Spirit who does a work on our hearts as if God were looking into us and giving us the spirit or the nature of the nature of God.In other words God searches the deep things because the Spirit makes us more and more like Christ. God creates in us the new spirit .. the new nature as the realities of what we are in our new identity. It is like destroying the old spirit (its a small- s)..that reality in our former ways and giving us a new spirit in this conversion. Oh that we might present the glory of God as He is so that we might experience the awe of what is transpiring from His throne in our changing.!
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3044  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reconciliation of 3 theologies Stage 3A on: October 12, 2010, 10:23:40 AM
God is in heaven and He does whatever pleases Him because there is no one powerful enough to enact an event that transcends time and space. The most powerful event is in salvation. I am not speaking about the salvation that we enjoy in time but the salvation that is the result of God extending the final salvation in the heavenly judgment. In time we are waiting and enduring so that this great event will bring our own inability to an end when we are given new bodies and completely renewed in our souls. Until then we are only seeing a foretaste of this glory divine.
This glory will be our being enabled to watch God do things from eternity that will swallow up this time of corruption. We only see though a glass darkly but then we shall see face to face. Gods will display the power of His right hand in the sequence of His renewing all things. We shall bow down and praise Him as we see these events unfold before our eyes. These events that are beyond our ability to imagine.

We see things in our lives that are foretaste of the ultimate connection that God has in His work in creation. Now we do not see the spiritual beings ... the multitude of angels.. the ultimate worship of God as He is in all of His glory. But we worship in shadows of the real event of worship that will begin all of the events for God to bring in the new heavens and earth. In worship we have a sense of the greatness of God.

We are in His presence and we are dependent upon Him to move upon us and to answer our most deepest longings. God is working through our cries... the ones that come from our lips and the ones that are silent groans. These prayers are being used to bring about the culmination of Gods rule so that we will see these things transpire from our desires in a single event in the future.  This single connection we have to the throne of grace is through the prayers of the saints.

And we are encouraged by these events of creation. We see the thunderstorms and we are amazed at the power of both sight and sound. God rules the storms from His throne because God is most powerful over all the universe. The OT saints witnessed Gods intervention in the battles of Israel in watching God hurl down fire balls on their enemies and utterly destroy them. They saw the angel of the lord destroy hundreds of armies with one swoop of His power. All of these events were through the prayers of the saints. God has stored up these prayers in heaven so that the foreshadowing of these prayers on earth will be used to enact the single event in which the heavenly beings participate to bring about the new heavens and earth. We will watch this unfold and bow down and worship God in the greatest worship that is unimaginable.
The worship in heaven will begin this events that extend from the four winds of the earth to the very throne of God in heaven when God will open up these judgments by His rite hand. He will hurl down fire balls on the earth in order to destroy the old and bring in the new. The armies of Heaven will take their post and unleash the succession of events so that there will be no more pain... no more suffering.. the old will be gone and the new will be forever. Have you seen God in the act of dependence of your prayers. Do you see what He does through the prayers of the saints? Do your prayers connect you to the eternal realities of the victory's of the future event that will be as real as the nose on your face? Do you pray the prayer of faith and see the events in creation as reminders of what God is in His mysterious rule over all of creation? May our prayers bring the reality of the rule of God before the final call! 
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3045  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Obedience from love vs fear on: October 10, 2010, 02:38:08 PM
Let me say this... there is much mystery about what God is doing to us about our sins. I have always thought after much meditation on the entire book of psalms that  a quick judgment about oneself without a long term view is like a curse itself. There are messages we hear when we hear the teaching. This is why the teaching must be filtered through our own pre determined dispositions. And then some of us also have some psychological issues that create the voice of reason to the teaching. This is why quick judgments are always dangerous.
This is a marathon. Some of us are more desperate than others. This is why the bible does not say read the bible and then go away and do something.. it says remind yourselves all day long. Because we do not always feel the same way in different parts of the day.. different days of the yr etc. So sin is not going any where.. we are not any more able from a short teaching. We must learn how to develop a new mind.
The new mind has these other relationships in the inner experience. One is a thirst for learning. The thirst for learning new knowledge and the thirst for experiencing new grace in our weaknesses. These thirsting qualities are more powerful in a believer and make us numb to the sorrows of this life and more passionate toward Christ. When we ask to be taught it is through the ability of Christ.

Then we have the ability to be numb toward our sins in a way of grace. We can look at our weaknesses and failures as gifts. Because when we acknowledge our weaknesses and sins we are most close to knowing what true praise is. The best praise comes because we have Christ life overcoming the effects of our present sins and we feel over joyed because He has produced pleasure in us when we needed the payment as well.

Then we have the ability in our new self to rise to worship God. The more we know His word the more we know how to pray and the more we know how to pray the more we experience this climbing effect. We sort of come into His presence as if the flesh was holding us down and then we begin to work up a spiritual sweat.. we begin to rise to the glory. Here we are standing on a hill as it were... the concept is like the soul rising to heaven ... we are on a mountain top and we begin to have a view of the world that is holistically healing to the soul. Everything as we view it is put in its proper place... we are in the Fathers presence and we experiencing being a father in the faith.     

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