We are involved in the middle of this battle.
On one side are the enemies of our souls. This includes people..
things... conspiracies and physical maladies. On the other side are
friends of God .. who walk in the ways of God. This is why we are
thwarted most of the time. There are people who stand in the way because
Satan uses them to stop the work of God. They are chosen to be there so
that we know it is impossible that we can move on without the
intervention of God. This is why we must no look at this as one
dimensional. But rather it is not a universe of ideas in the sense that
these ideas will win out in the end. Good ideas are rejected by the
majority of mankind in a generation or the world would not experience a
declining into these things of God flowing freely. This is not the way
life is. The more evil a society gets the more we experience this
complete and immanent opposition to the things of God. Satan will stop
the work of God in order to claim victory in a war... but we know that
there are many battles to be fought. So the war is not in line
with the physical universe. Satan uses the helpless to stop Gods work.
God works to bring relief to the helpless. We do not entirely understand
how this battle is fought but we experience how small our influence is
when Satan stops progress. We must not give up in this
declining experience. Because every society departs from spiritual
progress and they spend months in reversing what it took yrs for God to
work. The progress is no longer available to us. But we must persevere
through this time. This is why we pray...because we know that when we
are stopped in our tracks our prayers will be collected in heaven. God
leaves us in this kind of uncertainty to cause us to long for a greater
home. We actually are encouraged when things are reversed on this earth
because we know that our prayers are going to increase our rewards in
our heavenly home. But God will answer our prayers ... it will be
suddenly... it will come in His time. That road block will be removed or
there will be true redemption that comes out of the declension. We are
fighting a losing battle most of the time but we will win the war in the
end. If we hide in God who will bring us home to reward us for our
perseverance. I am not thinking about a personal situation here.. just thinking about how life is in general.
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3213
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: No freakin way! I'm not that stupid or insane today.
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on: July 22, 2010, 09:28:19 AM
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Life’s
been good so far (Joe Walsh is cool too). In fact, I’d say that life
has been great so far, regardless as to how I’ve ranted. It’s a free
gift, after all.
Now that I got that out of the way, I need to make a statement. Call it a rant, if you will.
In
June, I was asked to teach a Sunday morning adult class for this Fall.
At first I said sure. Why not? I feel pretty good about my
understanding of Scripture and there’d be plenty of good materials out
there to review and to use. A couple of the elders even said they’d
guide me through it. But then over the last few weeks, I woke up and
climbed out of this endless pit of insanity and thought, “Am I THAT
stupid?”. First of all, I’m not a biblical scholar. Secondly, it would
be time taken away from family and leisure. Thirdly, and most
importantly, Christians are the most critical creatures on the planet.
So, for being an average guy, without any formal training in doctrine,
I’d be standing up there in front of the world’s most critical people
and then do this all for free?
I thank God for moments of
sanity in an insane world. I told my pastor yesterday I had made a
mistake. I can’t teach the class this Fall.
Life’s good.
You did not quite say this correctly according to the doctrine of Church hierarchy. hehe. 
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3215
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Forums / Theology Forum / Charles G. Finney's Systematic Theology
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on: July 21, 2010, 07:22:52 PM
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LECTURE 1
MORAL GOVERNMENT
Law, in a
sense of the term both sufficiently popular and scientific for my
purpose, is a rule of action. In its generic signification, it is
applicable to every kind of action, whether of matter or of mind whether
intelligent or unintelligent whether free or necessary action.
Physical
law is a term that represents the order of sequence, in all the changes
that occur under the law of necessity, whether in matter or mind. I
mean all changes whether of state or action, that do not consist in the
states or actions of free will. Physical law is the law of the material
universe. It is also the law of mind, so far as its states and changes
are involuntary. All mental states or actions, which are not free and
sovereign actions of will, must occur under, and be subject to, physical
law. They cannot possibly be accounted for, except as they are ascribed
to the law of necessity or force.
Moral law is a rule of moral
action with sanctions. It is that rule to which moral agents ought to
conform all their voluntary actions, and is enforced by sanctions equal
to the value of the precept. It is the rule for the government of free
and intelligent action, as opposed to necessary and unintelligent
action. It is the law of liberty, as opposed to the law of necessity of
motive and free choice, as opposed to force of every kind. Moral law is
primarily a rule for the direction of the action of free will, and
strictly of free will only. But secondarily, and less strictly, it is
the rule for the regulation of all those actions and states of mind and
body, that follow the free actions of will by a law of necessity. Thus,
moral law controls involuntary mental states and outward action only by
securing conformity of the actions of free will to its precept.
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3216
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Surrender\Obedience a requirement for salvation?
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on: July 20, 2010, 04:07:37 PM
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I guess when you don't have any good comeback you can always make a personal attack to make up for a weak position. The scripture I presented is in context and planly worded and clear. How
can you stubborly resist what Scripture tells you to do. I can only
guess that you so endoctrinated with modern Reform ideas that the truth
can be no longer be accepted. It's like blocking your ears and shouting
LA LA LA! I'm sure even Calvin beleved in the necessity of Christians to
confess and repent for sins. Thor  Next time try refuting the Scripture. I would like to see that! Thor
i am pleased to say that i fail in confessing and repenting . I mean
like what you are trying to teach. I havent even said whether i confess
my sin and seek to please God. First because i do not believe in going
back to the kind of repentance that you have taught here. I already have
repented and trusted in Christ. Now repentance is an attitude. It is a
confession. It is a trust. Repentance is something that is taught to us
that is deeper than acknowledging sin and struggling to leave it.
Repentance is having no confidence in the flesh. Its not even trusting
in what i say or confess. Repentance goes farther than being concerned
for myself or my position before a holy God. Repentance is leaving the
doubt behind and reaching unto the mark of the high calling of faith. Repentance
is seeing my whole world as God sees it. It is seeking God with all of
our hearts. Not just changing a behavior. If you want to know.. i
acknowledge the Psalmist words in prayer not because i want to be clean
before God... not because i want to appear more righteous. The goal is
to know Him. The pleasure is to find that He is a Person. Its knowing
Christ personally. But repentance is not standing in between us and
Christ. Rather repentance is grace leading us to find all our hope...
all of our longings .. all of our hearts focused on Christ. We go beyond
our own corruption and we forget what we were like. We enter into the
holy Place by the righteousness of Christ alone. True repentance to a
regenerate person is found only when one loses a sense of himself. He
has learned there is a communication with Christ and the Father that is
far greater than experience on this earth. True repentance is being
enabled to have a fellowship with our Father so that we never return to
these longings that we had when we were unregenerate. These longings are
changed into a new way of feeling... thinking... seeing and
experiencing. We no longer have a sense of ourselves as if we were
connected to the old self. We have walked hand in hand with a real
Savior. Repentance is entering into an experience where we are
consumed with mystery. It is a timeless experience. We leave all of our
confidence in our past experience behind. We find we have learned very
little of what it is to know Him. We are consumed with Him so much that
nothing that we had confidence in ... in our past.... not even who we
are ... matters. All that matter is that this mystery is too great for
us. We are silenced. There is a peace that passeth understanding. We
find that in knowing Him we are left to our confidence that He is the
alpha and the omega of our lives. Every little minute we spend on this
earth is consumed by our doubts about our understanding and our
confidence that He is near. We feel a sense of inability to have
pleasure on this earth in the events and things of this earth. Christ
has consumed our way of thinking and enjoying. Every time we begin to
seek Him we enter into a sense of eternity in which we have no other
relations except Christ in us.
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3217
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Surrender\Obedience a requirement for salvation?
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on: July 20, 2010, 12:52:28 PM
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Exactly
Tb.... if we make a law that for each sin we must confess and repent
then we are placing a burden on ourselves that God does not require.
Because the scripture says that He does not mark our sins.I am always
suspicious about the belief that God is trying to get us to feel
personally responsibility for all of our sins.
Is it healthy
to deny sin just like it's healthy to deny there is a health problem? I
don't think so. “We” don't make a law to confess our sin...God tells us
to in His Word.
Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Psa 32:3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
Psa 32:4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
Psa 32:6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.
Psa
32:7 Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble;
thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.
Psa 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Psa
32:9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no
understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest
they come near unto thee.
Psa 32:10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about.
Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.
I am always suspicious about the belief that God is trying to get us to feel personally responsibility for all of our sins
MBG Have you forgotten 1 John?
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn
1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have
fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
God expects us to confess our sin and at the same time be mindful that we don't sin against Him. It’s a serious problem to close your eyes to your own sin it leads to confusion and trouble. You can’t correct with God’s help what you refuse to acknowledge. At least that’s my experience. Thor
Your
the first person that i have met that is an example of confessing every
sin and repenting of it. Wow... i am amazed at the illumination in your
writing over the yrs... same stuff over and over again. I guess you
have left all those former sins.... WE ARE GUILTY!!!! Elementary my dear Thorazine...
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3220
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Surrender\Obedience a requirement for salvation?
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on: July 20, 2010, 04:13:00 AM
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Exactly Tb.... if we make a law that for each
sin we must confess and repent then we are placing a burden on ourselves
that God does not require. Because the scripture says that He does not
mark our sins.I am always suspicious about the belief that God is trying
to get us to feel personally responsibility for all of our sins.
Because we have been given a great Shepherd of our souls. Like a doctor
who is concerned for his patients welfare even if it was from personal
sin. The doctor is providing the remedy. There are a lot of
questions about this moral responsibility that we have to provide a
solution to not only the sin but the consequence. Because God does not
let us suffer but He gives us antibodies and pain killers as a remedy.
What doctor would tell his patient that he does not want to do the
operation because the patient needs to suffer the consequences for yrs
of smoking? The doctor would be going against the oath that he took to
save every life. If a doctor takes an oath... dont you think that if
Christ not only died of sin but He took the full consequence for our
sins that Christ would be negligent if He made us pay for all of our
sins? The bible says that He forgives all of our sins and heals
all of our diseases. Now my question is does this include the diseases
we acquire because of our personal sins? I believe that this is the
intent of the Psalmist. Because its in the context of our natural frame
and propensity to be weak. What about the person who uses contraceptives
to avoid having a baby as a way to enjoy their fornication? Did God
provide that as a remedy for avoiding the consequences or is God only
working in the marriage situation? Then you think of aids. Now they have
a way to protect someone from getting aids and yet do the act. Some
kind of balm. Is God only in the business of protecting people after
they have payed the full consequences for their sins?This is just
hypocritical! The christian patient ... after he receives his pills goes
out and preaches that God punishes sinners with personal retribution. 
Because it would be an evil if we said to the patient that we could not
provide a life saving procedure because of some other lesser excuse
than to practice real mercy! Because mercy is not mercy if just deals
with the sin and not the consequence! This is the whole fight we have
now with health care!God displays real mercy to real sinners!He does not
count our sins. I certainly would think twice about Thor being my
physician. I definitely  would pay the price. hehe |
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3224
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: July 18, 2010, 04:42:29 PM
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Standard
fundamentalism i can understand, although i disagree with parts of it,
as you know (like the unending torture of the lost). However, my overly
linear analytical mind has trouble with the "mystical style" at times.
Sometimes mystical borders on mythical, and sometimes it is
"incomprehendical". (Hidden meanings abound.)
Kk these
things are much more complicated than just attacking everything in a
struggle with the will .. so that we behave like we should. Every one
wants to have a more positive accomplished set of actions. Most people
know what good is and how they should practice. In fact most people like
to have a set of disciplines that they practice over and over again
until they feel good about themselves. But there are a lot of
individual propensities here. They are developed in a person by the
level of ability of understanding. There are different demands in all of
us. And we are wired as individuals. And there are many ways that we
display our laziness which confuses people about our meeting our own
level of ability. This is why the will does not create the proper
motives to know who we are in our own skin. This attempt is from our
natural state of self determined humanism. We must see that we lack
the identity to think correctly about ourselves. From birth we are
confused about our abilities. And we have all of these potential
qualities that lie dormant because we live in a state of death to the
spiritual supernatural qualities of our gifts. We basically live as an
individual on the physical level with our natural personality traits.
This is all related to our thinking about performance. We are blind to
the real reasons that we perform good deeds. We live in the selfish
desires because we have a self will. But when we are born again that
will is destroyed. Because we must not be deceived about the reasons
and the motives in our former life. We must understand that the life of
grace starts with a gifted will given to us. It is the will of God. This
will is our new identity. Because we now have a new cause to do good.
We have a new set of desires. The most intelligent understanding of how
we view our new self is through the knowledge of Christ. We know Christ
because we have been changed in our identity. The new identity is
represented in us as the name and authority of Christ. We believe that
we can do nothing on our own. What ever views we have about how we feel
about ourselves comes to us through a new identity. We really do not
belong to ourselves. Our name is hidden in the name and authority of
Christ. This is the most powerful representation because it speaks to us
of who we really are.
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3225
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: compassion?
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on: July 18, 2010, 04:01:53 PM
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Kings
Kid: When you state that the "whole society " (except 8 people) "had
become horribly violent and totally corrupt", does that category ("the
whole society") include babies and fetuses? Were babies and fetuses
exhibiting "violent" and "corrupt" behaviour? If so, kindly please give
me a few examples. Another member has referenced the population as
(essentially) "thinking evil continually". If applicable, kindly please
give me a few examples of how babies and fetuses were "thinking evil".
Sir...
i beg to disagree with you again. Let me explain myself. Did you know
that every depraved action... the Hitler kind ... comes from a very
simple kind of sin of the heart? All of the terrible events in this
world come from very insignificant desires that create a monster in his
destruction. The apostle Paul was the most scrupulous man when it
came to keeping himself as innocent as a baby. But with all of his
attention to the detail of his character... one little sin rose up in
him and he put to death many of Gods people. It was the sin of coveting.
Did you know that the biggest wars that are fought on this earth are
the secret wars in the heart of mankind? And if you think about these
wars they come from the most destructive powers...more powerful than an
atom bomb. These insignificant sins are the reasons that men lose
control over themselves and create destruction. Because a man without
self control is like a city without walls. This is exactly how the
earth became so full of depravity that God destroyed mankind in the
flood. But the depravity started from birth because no man who causes
such mass destruction just appears as an adult. This is why the bible
not only says that sin is from our birth but death reigns in that sin.
In other words we must not be blind to the real causes or we will get
every thing else wrong. In fact in our natural state we turn everything
upside down. We think backwards. My point is we here see how off your
judgment is. Proof positive to us. I have a mentally and physically
handicap adult son. When he gets angry he responds like a two yr old.
But his body is not easy controlled like a two yr old. When he has a
temper tantrum it is very destructive. This is what dwells in each
person that comes into this world. Because the small sins are what is
behind what appears to us to be on the level of Hitler.
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