3363	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Emotionalism in place of the real means of grace.	on: May 29, 2010, 09:58:20 AM
Quote from: Kings_kid on May 28, 2010, 03:06:51 AM Still sticking to the analogy, (or is that stuck in it?), the engine is the facts of Scripture, but the fuel driving the engine is desire for God, which is the reverse side of His drawing us.  The pleasure received in beginning to understand the love of God for us, as revealed in the Word, builds the faith which leads to feelings of relief and joy. And the spiritual caboose is a great way to see the world.  Pulled by pleasurable facts about Him into faith generated feelings.  Sounds like reconciliation to me. Kk... the level of building trust in a society is understanding this vision of reality. The mind apprehends these connections to the causes of what exist in this universe. If there is any illusion in how a person apprehends the truth in relation to how the mind views reality in this way then it will not be a true faith. The only reality that is sure and steadfast is in a God centered view of reality. This is why it is so hard to have true convictions about the true reality of faith. This is why James says that faith without works is dead faith. Because unless Christ forms in us these true convictions then everything we do will be in conflict with Christ demands. This is where true conflict about the difference between weak faith and strong faith is measure. Every good gift comes down from heaven from the Father of lights. Or it comes in an illumination in teaching the mind these spiritual causes. The word of God is the only means to build true convictions in this matter of faith. I do not think we can go around this understanding about what James is saying unless we deal with this understanding that we are gifted with all the spiritual things from heaven and our doing is giving them away. Any other epistemology is building in the sand of moral-ism. This i think as i have stated before is the description of the righteous man in the Proverbs. This is why we do not start with faith. Because every man possess some kind of faith. If a person is honest then he would determine that all men exercise some form of faith on a daily basis. First because it is impossible for us to know everything about a situation in our lives because we do not see things that are transpiring around us outside our little space. So it is impossible to understand the causes of every experience that we have in matters of exercising our rational qualities. It is a laugh that exposure will solve all of mans problems. First because there is only one person of whom every event and determination has been locked up in His divine secret box. And if you read the NT not even Christ knew in His humanity the time of the date of His own return. We live in a world where we place our full trust in a sovereign God who will make all things rite. We live in a world where Gods smile is in our dark times. Because Gods purposes are sometimes so mysterious that we are led to trust beyond hope. I agree with Edwards here that faith takes us beyond sight. And yet behind each trial is Gods smile. Our frustration comes from our view as we look just beyond our noises. Because every event as we see it has the real purposes in our minds eye of our convictions about these causes. We must be content to not know things until the time when God will bring everything to the light of His truth. This is a matter of real faith or faith in a person in place of God. This is why we preach that God is the only one who can truly work all things out and we are required to allow God to do that in every circumstance in our lives. Be careful out there.  My brain hurts from reading Warfield.
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3364  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Cursing Legalism on: May 27, 2010, 10:45:32 AM There is no power in an object. There is no power in a human emotion. There is no power in self effort. And there is no power in systems. But people are sinners and they get attracted to mystical powers. And everyone is subject to some form of deception in this area. But at the same time if we dont hold to the doctrinal approach to all of this... and at the same time apply this to ourselves as the motif for all practical application ... i mean.. in the new wisdom of the Lord in a pragmatic way... then God will be a source of the pain button. That will be a god who changes by creating anxiety and stress. This is why we must start in a way in which we design our lives so that we will relinquish more and more our pre conceived ideas about spiritual things. That is we must reclaim the ground that the way to approach real mortification is through specific means ordained by God. We must conclude that all other means are a form of personal preconceived ideas that we hold onto in order to provide the basis for change. Our main problem is not necessarily the practice of sin. Our main problem is that we cannot entirely erase the mindset of idolatry. This puts men in Gods hands. Because we are not little gods. So that we not only hold onto our doctrine but in holding fast to our doctrine we allow God to use us the way He wants to use us in a healing way. Because to deny that we seek after idols we are not required to build our lives so that we have no connection to temptation. But we are to think thoughts after God in the midst of a crooked and depraved generation. So that in being sensitive to others propensities to measure things bigger than they are... then we will allow God to provide the basis for change through us by His love alone. This is we are always finding all of our confidence in a sovereign God alone.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

3365	Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Universalism: Definding the unbeliever at the expense of the Sheep	on: May 27, 2010, 09:40:08 AM
Quote Grace grows deeper as honesty levels rise. That sounds like your an honest person who evaluates levels of sinful tendencies and that you are able to overcome your addictions. I may be reacting to this constant drip of personal accountability mixed with good intentions and a drop of a new determination to press on. Im not sure if its the way you are communicating it to me or if i am sensing some desperation in you to move on. I got to be honest with you. It pains me sometimes to read what you are saying. I sense ... and it may be in me ... or i may not understand your language. But the pain in me is that i read your theory on sin and humility and sense that i am being tempted to trust in my own truthfulness. I dont know if TB has picked up on this as well. I will tell you that my form of communication is very foreign to this concept that i keep hearing from you. I sense there is a lot of infused righteousness in your effort and His response. And yet my frustration is that i cant sense the kind of grace that would reach out to someone who goes from one addiction to another .. .whether its sin or self righteousness. In reading your theory... i mean... in my own mind about what i get from you... i honestly feel like a tennis ball in one of those Borg tennis matches back in the 70s. On one racket it reads "your righteous" (checks and balances) and then i get hit to the other racket which says ... "give it up".... hehe   In my experience of our writing back and forth i kind of feel like i am being tempted to trust in myself and on the other hand to identify with a 12 step mindset of never moving on.  Maybe since you have been writing here that frustration is keeping me humble. But lately in dealing with other people in my life this kind of Catholic mentality has been become somewhat of a constant irritation. Kk... i think this world is cursed not just sinful. There is no hope of approaching God in a willingness to give up everything to get something. That is our filthy rags. Hope you understand that i am talking out of my personal frustration and not necessarily directed in a personal way toward you.   3367  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Emotionalism in place of the real means of grace. on: May 26, 2010, 07:23:08 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 26, 2010, 02:59:13 PM That somehow made me think of the old "train" concept.  How did it go? If emotions or feelings are the engine of life, the train will easily derail.  Emotions should be the caboose, and follow faith.  Faith is important but cannot pull the train, it is the boxcar in the middle.  What needs to be the engine in front are the facts of Scripture. The facts, as revealed by the Holy Spirit, move the faith that eventually leads to the feelings.  But our natural inclination will be to try to go by feelings to try to generate faith with little knowledge of the facts that the faith must be based upon.  Which runs the train backwards. Choo, choo. OK, i quit.  That got almost as complicated as what prompted it. Yes Kk this is where i disagree with some of my reformed brethren. We had a nice disagreement about the place of affections. I believe that the mind or intellect does not just collect facts but it is pleased with the knowledge. It cannot just be a receptacle. So i believe that desire comes as a matter of the exercise of faith. Faith is not the same thing as a substance but it is a means. So that it is exercised when the desire causes the will to act toward the object of its pleasure. So that we say that the cause of our believing is the pleasure of the mind as defined by desire. The cause of the mind being pleased is because it has been transformed and no longer is at enmity with God. It is pleased with the thoughts of God. So we call this transformation the reception of the nature of the spiritual things. This is a mind renewed by the Holy Ghost. So that we can identify these spiritual affections only when they are the cause and the nature in the choice and the spiritual object that is apprehended. Then the bible says that it is a spiritual affection. Because technically love is an action. But it must be from a spiritual affection.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 3368  Forums / Current Events / Re: Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined That World of Warcraft....... on: May 26, 2010, 06:26:22 PM Quote from: Obed on May 26, 2010, 06:02:14 PM Back to the original post, though, I can attest to the addictive nature of online gaming.  When Star Wars Galaxies came out in 2001 (I think) I got the game within a month.  Lost MUCH sleep playing in those early years and was definitely addicted after that.  It took me a couple of tries to quit.  And that was about a year after the game had ceased to be fun and most of my friends had moved on.  Definitely addicted. Since quitting, I decided I wouldn't invest myself in another MMO.  There is one that I sometimes play (less than five nights a month, typically) still.  But with it being free to play, I found I didn't get emotionally invested in it.  I don't know why a subscription equates to the addiction, but it definitely does for me. If SWG ever went free to play, I might try it again.  If some of my friends joined also. Every body around here is addicted to something. I love the passion. hehe You know what is more fun for me when God is humbling me? To get addicted to old habits and then curse them until they cease for awhile. He always takes them away at His time. I use them to build passion in my life for fuel in prayer and other areas. In the end i want to look like a christian mob boss. The fun part of the whole thing is watching the people around me point fingers... in the end we all have fun....oh He works all things out for our good. I am like Luther i enjoy my beer (metaphor) and love the fight. This ones for GENO I MISS THAT GUY... A REAL GRACE GUY...Geno hated being addicted to self righteousness.... love that guy. There is a distinction about human weakness. But that Freud stuff freeks me out...its something about those 70s and the mental leverage..... that will put me on my back for some time.... its like having a stake driven through my heart. I can smell it a mile away. I am still sporting from a recent experience. I can see the spirit in which it is delivered. I am not charismatic but this is one demon that Freud left to haunt people with. Reply Quote Notify 3369  Forums / Current Events / Re: Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined That World of Warcraft....... on: May 26, 2010, 05:23:58 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 26, 2010, 02:37:38 PM Thanks, toadbat.  I had almost forgotten, my step-son was heavy into gaming, especially Dungeon and Dragons.  He became totally obsessed with it, and became a Dungeon Master. He was high IQ, short in stature, inferiority complex, etc.  Playing role games gave him a feeling of unlimited personal power and ability.  And with his experience and talent he could control others in the game as well.  The things he couldn't find in the real world, he found in the world of imagination. He went on, while maintaining his D&D addiction, to college, got involved in drugs and then witchcraft, became very paranoid, ended up in a half-way house for the emotionally disturbed and died in a fire in that institution, having been severly burned over most his body. It is difficult to know how much of his path into insanity was related to the game playing.  Which came first, the inclination to insanity or the addiction to gaming?  Would he have been willing to get help for his addiction if it were treated as a real addiction, maybe with a treatment center followed by 12 step meetings?  Only the Lord knows, as we say. Kk what do you think about Freud? .... do you think that is a mind game? I had to see the godlessness of that imagination. Kk... i think Freud is behind most mental illness. Do you have these tendencies like you son?  Kk.... i dont want to offend you by making you think that a philosopher- psychologist -christian cannot be a real christian. I appreciate your input here.  I believe you can slander someone by putting them in an evil presupposition. Reply Quote Notify 3370  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Universalism: Definding the unbeliever at the expense of the Sheep on: May 26, 2010, 03:39:02 PM Let me focus on my view of these events in my life. I have my own thinking about these problems. I always pray about my problems of life. But my view has not always been what i thought God should do at a particular time. Well.. God is able to remove all of our problems at one thought. Which really is all my trust. Cause i cant trust people since ive gone so far in thing and there are only a few people who have brought me comfort from a prayer or a communication of that kind of desire. Paul says that most men added nothing to him even tho they had a level of influence in a religious sense. So that God doesnt give me what i think i need all the time. But God does answer some of my request and they usually are very direct and then my faith is increased. But there is more than just answered prayer. Sometimes in the use of meditation i can get in a kind of rhythm. It kind of feels like a flow of life from heaven and a relaxed time of pouring out my heart through the exact pleas. Its going through the Psalms... and then it begins to go deeper in my voice and more from the stomach. And then i feel like hell is turning over. I feel like the paint is melting off of a wall. But the truth is that if God gave me all that i wanted at the time i was praying for the problems to be solved then i would have removed most of my support in the future. So God does two things as i see it. He keeps our source of sorrow but he adds his frown on that.. or he causes them to dig deeper into the grave... but He brings relief as well. If God wanted to He could make us completely whole and fully filled with joy all the time with a sense of power that we have never experience. But God sees things in the future along with our real weakness that we tend to take for granted and He deals with us in grace. Reminding us of our own weakness so that we do not become obnoxious to everyone around us.  Man i miss Geno... pray for me. Remove Reply Quote Notify 3371  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Why get baptized? on: May 26, 2010, 02:56:04 PM We are all sin. Because every part of our being both physical and spiritual is corrupted. How can an accepted spiritual affection flow from a dirty spring? It cannot. Because the bible says that there is no one righteous... no not one! There is no one who seeks God. NO NOT ONE!!!!!!!!  We must see that there is only one way to be accepted before God. It is through a foreign righteousness. It doesnt become our personal righteousness as if it made a difference in our corruption. Because Jesus cannot share His perfection with imperfection. But its Christ righteousness imputed to our account so that we are declared righteous in a legal sense. This gives us a true picture of our real identity as accepted sinners. This gives us a true picture of Christ in all of His work on our behalf. There is no allusion here on playing hard and fast with the truth. We know who we are and we know what kind of grace that we have been given. Well enough to know that it is distinguished from any personal effects in this world! Since there is no hope of our being accepted from our intrinsic qualities then we are aware of our real need. We are focused on the real nature of dependence on God. And we are not deceived when we hear men produce a reason for goodness that has no source in reality including our own tendencies to fail in this area. Because on this side of heaven we will be a putrid mess and our works are as filthy rags. But thank God that through Jesus who is not only our hope but He is all of our salvation not only from this world but from ourselves!   Reply Quote Notify 3372  Forums / Theology Forum / Emotionalism in place of the real means of grace. on: May 26, 2010, 02:29:13 PM Dont get me wrong. If there is anyone who tends to wear his feelings on his sleeve it is I. I take the fifth on that exposure. But i believe that emotions play a part in our religious affections. But they must be under the control of our general disposition. I do not consider them separate from the mind. Because a man knows what he understands as a personal inter action with these personal effects in knowledge. The pleasure is not experienced in the doing but in the knowing as an understanding of the nature of that affection. Its fellowship in with the Persons of the eternal word that brings to life the doing. That is why there is a difference between emotional responses and having a reality of the depth of the nature of the affection. This is why you cannot manufacture the spiritual nature of the experience. Because it is taught in the grace of the illumination of the exact word of God for the exact way to prosper in the application to the action. In other words it is almost like coming to a knowledge of the communication of real Persons.  But emotionalism is reacting out of a sense of euphoria on the one hand and deep sorrow on the other. Because there is no replacement for the word and the Spirit in the way of implanting this understanding as a multi detailed reflection of the difference between emotionalism and actual spiritual affection. The Spirit applies these fundamentalist doctrines to mold and determine the nature of the experience which includes the emotions. We are facing a lack of ability not only to learn from the feet of Jesus but we naturally are not wanting to be continuously focus on learning as a stream on a pathway. Because emotionalism is in bits and spurts but real spiritual affects are implanted in an understanding of the difference between Gods way of communication in the control of the event as opposed to our general trust in mystical events. In other words the Spirits method is to produce the quality of the event as well as the understanding of the nature of the spiritual affection in the event. But we look at our own production of the experience and we fail to see the more detailed holistic nature of this learning process. The Psalmist longed to be taught by God like a watchmen waiting for the morning. The self knowledge was acquired in the understanding of the return of the illumination from that longing. Reply Quote Notify 3373  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: The Homeless people in Florida and throughout the nation on: May 26, 2010, 01:46:42 PM Quote from: daveed on May 25, 2010, 10:54:55 PM Ok. May i ask what  your point is in bringing these facts Up? Not antagonistic. Just curious. Well as you know for yrs my family has been involved with a ministry. I was in a kind of waiting period for about 2 yrs. And now i am praying for this as i did for the home schoolers. I enjoyed some of the most cherished moments of my life in that format... This is where i see most of the redeeming qualities. I have a sense of Gods presence now. b... I  believe that we are seeing something that has not happened in our land that is a special evil. I believe that we can temperamentally be destroyed in our spirits because of being part of a wide spread depraved society. We can be taught this slave mentality. It may be from our past sins in which we enslaved people. But as you see that God brings on judgment for sin not only from the present generation but all the way back to the fourth generation. I think it is more dangerous to present repentance as general sweep in light of this national judgment at the feet of Gods elect. There is a clear promise in the law covenant that God will not punish the elect from one generation to another. Because in Gods loving covenant to his elect... it involves and eternal generation. Because we are identified with Christ and we are Gods personal children. And God is eternal so that we do not belong to this earth but we view everything on this earth in taking refuge in God who goes on from one generation to another. That is the promise for His elect. We are an eternal generation in our new identity in which we are being renewed unto the day of judgment when all things will be made rite by God. So we live in the light that the judgment was declared when Christ came and died and ascended to heaven to take His riteful place of judgment. So that we have a whole new reality that we belong to an eternal kingdom which cannot be moved. This is why we are made to seek another world. Because God is over the earth and He rules from the heavens and nothing can thwart His purposes being brought to bare from one generation to another. This is why we believe that God does not accuse Himself in how He deals with His own in this evil generation. In other words we believe that God has a people that He identifies with as that by which He shows forth His love in this definite atonement. We are living in a day in which there is a wide spread apostasy. We are warned that because people wax cold in their love then that will affect us like a virus. This is why God teaches His people to flee from the wrath to come that will be poured out on this wicked generation. Most people who live in this country do not consider that these things will be from an oppressive and dominant rule of man. But God works through the means in order to display His glory for the purpose of showing His kindness from one generation to another and to remind His people by the presence of this evil that they must place all of their hope in God and take refuge in Him from this special evil.  But we have been trained to be soft and weak because we have been taught that there are automatic blessing just for being a citizen in this country. We have not experienced being in a kind of exile. But we are going to learn how to fight in prayer. Because unless we persevere in the spirit of prayer then we will grow faint and we will lose heart. We must not mix Gods Fatherly disposition with our tendency of living in our formal religious confidence to be fearful in this special time. Our problem as His children is not that we face sin as that by which we are overcome. Because God gifts us with the spirit of humility so that we know how hard this struggle is at this time.  Now this is the danger. That people who are religious will work against God because in their zeal to keep Gods people from these addictions they will put more burdens on them. Instead of being overly concerned for how God works in His own... we should be learning how to identify the real enemy of our souls who is the devil and not sin and we should begin to fight the fight for as ambassadors of Gods people because this mass apostasy is only going to get worse. That is why we should not sit in the seat of a scoffer. That is not just a pagan who is reprobate. But it also is the religious Pharisee. That person who has placed himself as the high priest of sin and is totally oblivious to the spiritual forces.  Do not sit in the seat of scoffers.