3397	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.	on: May 23, 2010, 08:34:13 AM
http://www.oneplace.com/player/living-grace/experimental-christianity-pt-2-106974.html Hit the bulls-eye I am trying to figure out the difference between sentimentalism and this activity of the Spirit in light of the true definition of mysticism. Whether we can trust the experience in a realistic way as a true definition of an experience. I mean there are not self reflective comparisons in light of the amount of supernatural workings that we can truly understand. We are talking about the "it"as a realism of time as that by which we hold onto our own humanity. Its not that we annihilate the will in order to have the knowledge of Christ as the most personal. Its that He upholds His honor... His name... His work in the future through all things. Our wills have been forever changed as the most personal experience of knowing by the confidence and the understanding that He is not only working in spite of our weak faith but He is working through us. I do not think we can divorce any of the anthropological doctrines as we look at the existence of all of the faculties being used in order to see the salvation of God through this created order. It would seem to me to be more detailed as we explain these supernatural things than the mere utilitarian mystery as the distinction between christian mysticism and the mysticism out of dead things. If we just stopped at experience then there would be no purpose in light of the value of these things. But we see things transpire in the future that we desire because God must be God through and through in time. In our deep cries and longings we are brought to marvel at how powerless we are to change human wills ... which is the frustration of our mystical longing and yet we watch God work something that we have been trying to get accomplished by other means for yrs. We not only feel these things but we follow paths.. avoid things... look a these other things of a spiritual nature in light of being held in a strict set of warnings. We are living in powers that we are unable gain ground on unless we find that all things are flowing through us unto the purposes of God being accomplished in these means. In matters of sin we are the most incapable to gain any acceptance because of our past and present failures. This is why our longings are personal unto the entire future of redemption in our own places in this world. We not only want to be forgiven... no listen to me...we want to be vindicated as guilty sinners in a real potential of future harm. We are looking at the only hope in our particular sorrows of Christ controlling the elements the wills of men unto our sin being erased! In other words since our wills have now become Gods will then sin no longer has a real reality in His refuge. We now are touched by our infirmities and sins out of a design to become completely dependent upon Him as our only means of salvation... on going salvation. So that we find there are always a potential for us to be buffed on every side since it is mans natural design to work in trying to expose the sins of others. It does not start as a real battle until we proclaim that we trust in Christ alone! That is when the devilish conspiracy begins to oppose us. You will need to excuse me but i have no ac rite now... i am not feeling good mentally. Hopefull 3399  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: May 22, 2010, 06:45:34 PM Adoption is an act of God's free grace, whereby we are received into the number, and have a right to all the privileges of, the sons of God. Westminster Shorter Catecism Q 34 “Before orphans can enjoy the love and care of a new family, they must be legally adopted. Adoption, like justification, is simultaneously legal and relational” -Michael Horton, Covenant and Salvation: Union with Christ, pp. 247-248 “Extol and magnify God’s mercy, who has adopted you into his family; who, of slaves, has made you sons; of heirs of hell, heirs of the promise. Adoption is a free gift. He gave them power, or dignity, to become the sons of God. As a thread of silver runs through a whole piece of work, so free grace runs through the whole privilege of adoption. Adoption is greater mercy than Adam had in paradise; he was a son by creation, but here is a further sonship by adoption. To make us thankful, consider, in civil adoption there is some worth and excellence in the person to be adopted; but there was no worth in us, neither beauty, nor parentage, nor virtue; nothing in us to move God to bestow the prerogative of sonship upon us. We have enough in us to move God to correct us, but nothing to move him to adopt us, therefore exalt free grace; begin the work of angels here; bless him with your praises who has blessed you in making you his sons and daughters.” Thomas Watson, A Body of Divinity, p. 240 Remove Reply Quote Notify 3400  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The forth of the spring feasts...Shavuot and The Messiah on: May 22, 2010, 01:18:49 PM I agree if we go back to the old testament sacrificial system then Christ would need to be re-crucified because the first time was not final. Thats why it is impossible for a person who apostatized from the faith to again find a new redemption.   Christ forever put an end because He is the fulfillment of the sacrificial system. In Hebrews it says that going back is the same as apostatizing. In Galatians the apostle says that going back is rejecting the gospel of grace by the Spirit. Its equal to going back to any system of man. A replacement for the gospel.  Look at what the apostle says should never be replaced or competed with.  Galatians 3 1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard? Reply Quote Notify 3401  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The forth of the spring feasts...Shavuot and The Messiah on: May 20, 2010, 03:16:02 PM The sacrificial system in which the priest of Israel would present the unblemished lamb on a daily bases is not being practiced since the fall of Jerusalem. The reason is when Christ came He was the only sacrifice that could take away sin. Not even the unblemished lamb could do that. Christ coming to the earth was the supernatural voice of Israel ... not even the 5 articles in the tabernacle could be used to get prophetic messages from God. The ot temple worship was dead in the silent yrs between the OT and Nt. They never regained their former communication. Because Christ not only came to earth but He ended all of the rituals because He was the fulfillment of them. Not only did He end them but His coming to earth had one purpose. He came to fulfill the law in His active and passive obedience.... His life... He came to end sins reign in His death and resurrection... and to take His riteful place as King and Prophet and Priest of the Most High God. In His ascension He took on these offices as the only link between earth and heaven. So that every Christian communication of salvation is in Christ who is all of that the OT system could not perform in behalf of the ot church. This is His purpose of salvation from the beginning of time to the last saint. The OT system was just a shadow of the real thing. Reply Quote Notify 3402  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Why get baptized? on: May 20, 2010, 01:30:55 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on May 20, 2010, 01:14:39 PM Joker:  "But truly, symbols represent reality but are not the reality.  Remember that the next we discuss the meaning of Christ on the Cross." K_k:  Can you expand on that a little?  Thanks. mbG:  "When we come to the end of our own ability then we will lead our lives in grace. Because just as grace cannot be mixed with the law ... grace cannot be mixed with our own ability to do a good thing. We never respond to a hostile God. Because God is always good, and He determines to bring gifts in our path as the means to accomplish His work in us. He graces sinners with things they dont deserve. Trust me on this one... i am the biggest sinner... and i wait so long for things that i do not deserve.... but i cant trust myself... my own way. And He loves the other ones of His fold who do not understand. Because God is eternally loving. It is because of His great love that we are what we are. It is because of His grace that we can accomplish anything." K_k:  This is fairly simple, and i agree to most of this, in Christ.  You also get overly complicated sometimes, (even in the same message) and it is hard to agree or disagree with statements that seem to make no clear sense. Willis:  "Ooo, Willis, you are sooooo going to get tagged with the "H" label." K_K:  Was that Holy or Heretic? Obed:  "I gotta agree with MBG here.  This divorcing of the physical and the spiritual smacks of gnosticism.  The distinction between the symbol and the reality is a very superficial one that smacks of post-enlightenment modernity rather than the biblical pattern." K_k:  Jesus was often having to help people see the spiritual meaning to His words since they were so predisposed to the physical interpretations which often didn't seem to make sense to His hearers.  The classic case of this is: "Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.  Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’  The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?"  John 3:10 K_k:  There are many instances of this inability of the disciples and the pharisees to be able to see the spiritual meaning because of a focus on the physical.  The sower of the seeds comes to mind, the many times He told them of His coming Crucifixion, and Resurrection, etc. And of course, there is the long-term disagreement of whether the bread and wine of Communion are physically changed into the actual body and blood of Christ.  (Which doesn't make much sense if He lives in Believers, is our very internal Life Source, and our body and blood belong totally to Him already.) The main point is that things like baptism have a spiritual dimension that is independent of the physical act.  The obvious evidence is that the Disciples were not baptized into the Body of Christ at their water baptisms but on the day of Pentecost without any water at all.  So much for the false teaching that the Spirit can only enter us at baptism or that baptism saves us. K_k:  This is fairly simple, and i agree to most of this, in Christ.  You also get overly complicated sometimes, (even in the same message) and it is hard to agree or disagree with statements that seem to make no clear sense. me... Johnny C follower.... Kk... you and i understand each other very clearly... what is not clear to me is your general usage of taking scripture out of context. You are so much like the old fundamentalist. Reply Quote Notify 3403  Forums / Main Forum / Re: What is the meaning of life? on: May 20, 2010, 12:59:54 PM Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to uphold it. Every little comma and period. When Jesus was teaching about certian laws He did not invent a NT teaching about them. He was explaining the ot law as it was not applied correctly by the Pharisees. He was not giving all of the explanations of the entire law. Just the ones the Pharisees were using to abuse the people with. So that i am applying the law from Deuteronomy in your false interpretation. Jesus never advocated complete passiveness as in that verse from the Torah. How do you think Jerusalem was destroyed?  By men Let me say something about the history of Gods people regarding going into exile. If we simply say that Israel was brought into exile because of their lack of repentance as a nation this would not be entirely correct. Because when Israel abused Gods privileges they also abused the surrounding pagan nations. In fact they practiced sacrificing their children more than the pagan nations. The point is that there were evil men in Israel who decided to take vengeance as their own practice. Instead of trusting in God. Because God promised in the covenant to protect them ... to go out with their armies and defeat the enemy. Its interesting to think that a person who abuses others may appear as a religious person but he practices his religion as he would be in front of the rest of the idol worshipers. Which is to appear universally loving to all men.  But in secret he is not all together confident in protecting his own wealth and power. So because he looks out at the other people who have very hard times with sin and they dont look confident in this world then he abuses them because of his universal religious love for others. This is his idol to protect his power. This is why God was so gracious to Israel... because their one sin that was worse than the abusiveness was the sin of unbelief. God could work on a sinner who was struggling with sin but unbelief was taking vengeance on their neighbors without Gods approval. Only God had the authority to command the confiscation of the goods of the other nations. Only God could order them to kill every woman and child. So that the nations practice revenge for a good purpose in this worlds system. But what looks righteous is not always the way G 3405  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: OF THE SACREMENTS.... CALVIN on: May 20, 2010, 09:55:09 AM Let me say something about the word revealed. The word of God is the reality of all that exist in this world. If there was something that happened apart from God then it happened apart from His will. But any form of communication comes from a thought. The thought is a word or in God is the reality of all that exist. For every thought of God is what transpires. There is no word outside the definition of the Trinity working. Because every thing that is brought into existence is defined by Gods purposes being fulfilled to bring all things under the rule of Christ. There is no purpose outside of Gods decretive purposes. It is the real counsel and a communication of all that involves in the relationship between the Shepherd and His sheep. He not only creates but He sustains by the word of His mouth! The communication of all that is good in this world is that desire that comes to us by the grace of God. Gods grace is the ability to fulfill His desire in a decretive motif. We can do nothing apart from Christ. We cant even sustain our own lives! We are receiving the promises of faith as that by which we are encouraged to hope in God. We place all of our confidence in God. Because the help of man is worthless. But with Gods help alone we lay down our confidence in our own swords. This is how we come to God by faith. We acknowledge our utter powerlessness to obtain the promise and we exalt God because He has proved Himself among many faithful witnesses that have gone before us that He will do as He pleases! We look unto Christ the author and finisher of our faith and we wait upon Him until the day of salvation is spoken to us! That salvation that looks beyond the things we see unto all things being accomplished in the Trinitarian work. We fellowship with that life that comes down out of heaven... the only good that we experience on this earth. Because it is the only thing that quiets our souls of the need to find confidence in ourselves! We wait in hope for the Lord for He is our strength and our shield.  In Him we put all of our confidence! Christ not only presents the sacrament to the church to be given to His sheep but He gives it directly to us from His hand! Christ is present in the ordained means of all things working out for His purpose. He places the sacrament before our eyes in order that we may know that in the first supper when He broke the bread there was a great cloud of witnesses at that table. Christ is the eternal God who is present in the Lords Supper! We could not even open our mouths to receive it unless He decreed that it was so!