3721	Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The incredible shrinking economy	on: March 19, 2010, 07:24:14 PM
This is what happens in a socialist society... interesting. The former soviet union to present day.  Economic statistics for Georgia are difficult to evaluate for both the Soviet era and the post-Soviet period, primarily because of the country's large underground economy. Traditional Georgian familial and clan relations have intensified the economic corruption that infused the entire communist system. Local elites in the communist party joined with underground speculators and entrepreneurs to form an economic mafia. Repeated efforts to eradicate this phenomenon, including an aggressive effort by Shevardnadze in the early 1970s, apparently had little impact. In the post communist period, struggles for economic control among competing mafias have been an important part of the political conflict plaguing Georgia.
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3722  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: What is legalism? on: March 19, 2010, 06:20:41 PM I want to explore the concepts of legalism and childlike trust. With the over all design as in presenting our relationships with the idea of being a Muse -  the goddess or the power regarded as inspiring a poet, artist, thinker, or the like. Infants do not worry about the troubles of adults. Their world is very simple. I think that the amount of knowledge one has and the wisdom to live a full life presents a lot more distractions. This is why it is so difficult to unwind and detach from this life. Is there a place of real refuge where the burdens we carry are unloaded? I thought that Jesus was focusing on the complexity of ones faith. But now it is reasonable to see that we have a special ability to be of service to one another without feeling attached by some kind of form or definition in the way we make friends in this world. This ability comes from a heart that is drawn out of itself unto God and is not thinking about complexities of weights of ideas that connect us to this world. In the stillness and quietness of Gods presence there is a sense that all things are made new... there is a new moment of time unlike the former one. We are shielded from concerns and we are filled with a sense of anticipation that receiving a new understanding of childlike trust is always something we have available to us when we call to our Abba. I dont think that we can have a joy that is overflowing with pleasure until we unload the difficult things by experience. Remove Reply Quote Notify

3723  Forums / Theology Forum / What is legalism? on: March 18, 2010, 06:54:21 PM A Definition of Legalism 1. Using the Mosaic covenant as though it is the covenant between you and God. 2. Attempting to be justified by one's own works. 3. Attempting to be sanctified by one's own works 4. Suggesting that our worth or worthlessness, our self-esteem and self-satisfaction or lack thereof, rest on our own works. 5. Any attempt to please God judicially, or any supposition that our sin as believers has resulted in his judicial displeasure. [Any post-salvation attempt to maintain our judicial standing before God through good works, covenant faithfulness, merit etc..] 6. Teaching that we conform ourselves to our judicial standing in Christ (righteous and perfect) by our own works. 7. Attempting to attain godliness by a systematic change of behavior 8. Obedience that does not spring from a renewed heart a. As of an unbeliever who has no renewed heart b. As of a believer who has a renewed heart but whose righteous behavior does not spring therefrom. 9. Any supposition that externally righteous acts have any value on their own, even as conduct that prepares the way for either a. A renewed heart (preparationism as regards justification), b. The softening or further renewing of an already renewed heart (preparationism as regards sanctification. Note Romans 12:2-Transformation occurs through the renewing of the mind), or c. Any other work of the Spirit. 10. Suggesting that faith is irrelevant in the accomplishment of some (or all) good works. 11. Trying to be justified by works that are created and inspired by the Holy Spirit. 12. Attempting to gain assurance of salvation solely or primarily on the basis of the sign of outward works. - Bill Baldwin Lets discuss this ... maybe TB could give his thinking since he is very good at describing the works of the flesh. Reply Quote Notify

3724  Forums / Steve Brown Etc. / Re: Love your enemies it messes with their minds on: March 18, 2010, 06:08:01 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 17, 2010, 08:21:45 PM Thanks for that, klab. In the 12 step fellowships there is a saying that maintaining a resentment against someone is like giving them free rent in your head.  It also shuts out the "sunlight of the Spirit", and actually poisons our blood stream (and His Bloodstream, come to think of it). We are to forgive others as we have been forgiven, and i don't believe we can do that without Him.  One thing that helps is to pray for the people we have resentments against. When i first heard that resentment was giving someone free rent in my head, and that i needed to pray for the person i resented, i immediately got angry that i was giving my ex-wife free rent, and started "praying" for her to get what she deserved, for her to go face God, right now.  But as i continued trying to pray for her, the attitude began to change, and i started to mean the prayers for her welfare.  I began to want God's best for her, even as i wanted it for me. And eventually the resentment was gone, along with the bitterness and associated blood-poisons.  I went through the same kind of process with my father-in-law.  Then it became easier to forgive as i have been forgiven, which is much, very much.  And the more i forgave, the nicer God seemed to get, even though He didn't change.  It's hard to see the love of God through eyes of hate. Kk... forgiveness is something we get from God. He says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. The fact is that we never confess all of our sins because we may not understand what sins are more grievous than others. So we may focus on the rule of scripture and not understand the nature of sin. If you look at first John then you will see the process of forgiveness. We confess our sins... we realize we are sinners after confession or we are liars. And if we have fellowship with those who are in our immediate fellowship then we are being forgiven of sin ... the sins that we are not aware of or we are enjoying a gracious connection to the bigness of God. Because we are not really identified as those relationships in the world make us think as to our sin. Nor are we obligated to confess our sins to unbelievers. At most there may be a need to have a close personal friend who keeps the lid on our emotional responses to tough situations. Because we become emotional about the problems we have with other people and sometimes if we are taught that the focus is on man then every decision that we make will be an obligation to the law of man. Which is not reality... its our imagination. There is an emotional relaxing that we get in the wrong response to the law in receiving forgiveness. Paul says that when the law revived ... the law of sin and death .. or the law that condemns sin ... then he want to do the sin more. If we make forgiveness ... the sermon on the mount kind... according to an absolute law then we are placing a burden on someone that we could never achieve. Our new relationship to God is that we died to the law that we might live for Christ. We are now sons of God. As a son we are no longer under the law. We now have open access to our Father through the full work of Christ on the cross. Our Father deals with us in this relationship like we are his children. There is no longer a discipline for each sin or a response of anger toward us His children. We have this new relationship that is out of love. Like Steve says... if we are not loved then we are not going to love. Now it no longer matters even what others think of us. It only matters what our Father thinks of us. And we know that He is eternally fond of us.  This is where we start... even if we never confessed one sin! Go ahead and sin with all the might you have . If you have a warped view of God then you need his love more than forgiveness at this point. Or His free grace. May the curses fall on all those who add one thing to the gospel- i only say this because of the lies told in a more prominent way... and to show the distress it causes people.  Reply Quote Notify

3725  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 18, 2010, 02:53:56 PM Now i need to talk to those who are under great anxiety and temptation. There is an evil connection to what you are experiencing as a general level in your thinking and your social contact. Because you are susceptible to thinking in these depressing ways. Your temptation to jealousy.. to envy and to lust... anxiety...vile thoughts are always so very strong. And God seems to be watching from a distance. Let me say this.. i was there.. i was were you are at. I experienced things that brought me down as if that was all there was on this earth. The deep struggles became places that i visited ... just like someone going to the dump. All of the things that i experienced were spiritual pains. The place of pain was living  in my head.  Here is what advantage you have. You can go to the reality that no one is forced to face. I mean... that Jesus went the way of suffering anti social behaviors. So that He judged the world for judging Him. And in Him is complete acceptance. We struggle and we fall back on Him because when we feel disconnected in a social setting Jesus connects to us. Men will always look at the unlovely object as unlovely... Jesus looks at the unlovely object and He says you are loved. I know.. you are angry cause you have something your experiencing and no one understands. Tell it to Jesus. He will use you to lower the standard so that there will be more of you in His society of acceptance. Give all of your cursed thoughts to Him and let Him work through them to bring you help. Jesus is doing something that you cannot do yourself.. that He could not do if everyone was healthy and satisfied. He is working through you when you cant do it yourself. He will carry you. Reply Quote Notify

3726  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 18, 2010, 02:22:59 PM Circumstances are not always what they seem. There are indirect reasons as to why God leaves us in some desperate situations. In my own life it looked like more of a definition of the way things are defined by the 20th century church. I dont mean to imply that God is not working in these things.. i am simply saying that God always has a smile even when we find ourselves in anguish or we are being judged by some of the religious community. These weather events have a special place in my heart because they have defined chapters in my life in which it applied force to where i am now. So that in my prior meditation of being in a great hurricane i am brought back to that experience in my meditation of the Ascribe to the Lord oh mighty ones... ascribe to the Lord glory and strength. That particular psalm has personal connections to my life as the smile of God in the worse time of my life. I get a certain communication because it was a place that God had determined to put His love on me not in a fearful way but in a way in which He spoke as God by His communication of grace in and after that storm. When things were completely still...at nite... the city was completely dark..the whole creation had been blown down...then God was God. There were initially sweet meditations because there was nothing to be desired but Him. Its like a place that does not come to everyone on this earth. I cried glory. But then it was followed by the most crushing anxiety that i could ever experience. And there were certain reasons for this ... but it was a force to move me. God is not always completely understandable. I am in a place where i am shielded at present. I mean... it was almost at the point where i would have lost my mind but at the exact height He brought me out of it. Oh how i prayed nite and day... nothing but waves of sorrow upon another. I was let to expel breathe under the anxious spirit. It was something that has led to some physical defects today. I know how Satan can crush a man. But God uses these things and then there are big events that are more than normal... we are aware of Him moving us by these... and then we begin to become aware of these things in a more understandable way so that we will not be caught off guard again. God hems us in behind and before. We do not like it because its not natural for us to wait on God. But if we were to take on the whole world...if we were to become a complete success story then we would only be made to grieve. Not that God will not bless us or we are not wanting that but in His time. Please give God a chance to be your counselor. Listen to Him in your struggles. Wait on Him no matter how much the struggle is. Hold onto His leg... grab His robe... take your hands and beat on His chest if you need to....but wait on the Lord! Satan will advance... but hold fast. When you cant get the energy to fight God is doing it all.  Reply Quote Notify

3727  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 18, 2010, 01:16:24 PM Satanic mentality is getting us to focus on being good. On the one hand we deny the reality of human desire and on the other hand we intrude of Gods territory. A man who is a novice will work against God even tho he may be a good person. Because this world has a distinct communication as a matter of behavior. That begins the formation of all of the evil in this world. If a person knows God is sovereign and concludes that all things are going to work out in the end then he may fall into the devils schemes. It is wrong to conclude that prayer and the general circumstances of life and how we move about are two separate things. God has chosen to work through our prayers so that we will not become a force of communication that resist the secret providence of God. We do not know Gods ways and we do not understand our daily needs.  Prayer is life. So we conclude that a prayer-less life is a life of idol worship. Because the only reality in this life is through the words that define that reality. Words are eternal in that they create the society in which we live in. If God is just out there making everything happen then why would he need us to determine how His thoughts and identity is to be spread? And if from His view He were to use such inconsistent identities .. then how is that message going to get through? Because He is sovereign? Pleasssseeeee .... He works in us to will and do. He works in the means to accomplish His purposes. If we do not learn how to pray then we are going to experience a lot of grief. Because before God can change the world He must actively communicate to His people that it will be changed by their understanding of how He is working. God works through prayers because we are the instruments who show complete dependence on God as the attraction for God to bring in more dependent people. God works through the prayers of His people or they will suffer.  Reply Quote Notify

3728  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 18, 2010, 12:53:28 PM Satan is a master at defining the world in which we live. The entire world mentality is Satanic. This is why every thought is captivated by force. Because the intellectual understanding of truth is the reality of the identity. Satanic identity is the opposition to spiritually transforming identity. But the problem is that Satan has the minds of those who share in His identity. We who are spiritual can see this direct insult to our world. So that the biblical mind is always alert to His force. We want to go in prayer to battle a person... but prayer is battling a general opposition both spiritual and physical. It is demanding that God be God no matter what. The identity of this Satanic disposition is an attraction to the power of force. So when we introduce another reality then its like mixing different things together to create a taste. We are responding to force with destroying powers. We have all the power to tear down strong holds and everything that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.  First because these things of opposition start with a personal assault to everything we are. We just become numb to its onslaught. This numbness is because our first response is to create an idol of our own. This is an imagination of our true identity. My personal experience of this is our confusion about these personal assaults. In this sense a person who is a novice at christian warfare is made to feel and think in ways that are sinful even tho it may seem to be reaching out to connect in a social way. When we pray we are enforcing the christian world view over every area of this earth. We are taking the world of Satan back.. by force. We have a very powerful destroying army. We go out into the world and are made to be harmless as doves and as wise as serpents. Because we know how to bring about events in our lives that will bring glory to God and bring the Devil down in our paths. This is why when the Spirit makes our paths level... He does this by force. He literally removes the opposition from our path. But we do not know this secret providence. This is why when we pray that we will not fall into temptation that it is more than being subject to an opposition as if we were made to feel the weight of the responsibility to keep ourselves from the temptation. We are dealing with different pleas as a matter of destroying powers.    Reply Quote Notify

3729  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Prayers on: March 18, 2010, 11:51:13 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 17, 2010, 10:36:40 PM I perceive, mbG, that your style in writing prayers differs from the style in writing theology.  The prayers seem from the heart, more childlike and flowing, the theology more from the head and more mature but scattered. Is it OK if i encourage you to ask that those styles come more together?  Maybe you could interweave prayers into your theology?    Thanks Kk... well... its difficult for me... i can assure you that in all of my writings i am in a deep paradigm of a verse and my problem is that i go from one place to another. My mind moves faster than my hand. But these prayers are really not mine. When you make a knowledgeable plea to the Lord of heaven ... then He answers it because it is a soul reaching into the bosom of the Father...like a soul to soul connection...or a face reflected in the glory of God. The response of that infusion is the answer of the specific plea or its the life flow of the knowledge of the plea answered ... which is the understanding that the future event will be yours....  These prayers are more mobilized in receiving something and if you look at the dates the prayer i start off with is more climbing in its purpose.. then the prayer after that is the infusion expressed. These infusions are very powerful and last for quite awhile... an assurance of future answers... at this time its almost automatic... but my response is controlled by the knowledge i have as to increasing my experience in my communication to the courts of heaven.   My problem in the Theo section is that i want to draw out the human desire in all people and make them think like i would think.. i want to attract everyone to be a Calvinist... because it is the ultimate experience of goodness in this world. This is almost impossible.  I just need to learn how better to bring these concepts together. I know i appreciate your help. Maybe i will not be entirely strong in this area... but you can assist in the process of editing. I am kind of different... i pray that what i say will be something that someone needs at the rite time so it is more of a communication of reading the person and then hearing a message that comes indirectly to me. I am way out there. This is why i am not very good with my eyes in this way.... physically speaking...I am better at viewing the meta physical. Probably a lack in the mechanics of writing.  Its more an expression of my hands.  Ok.. i need help...  I am also trying to expand the other meta physical works... at least thats my major longing and insistence of praying the psalms like exercise. Remove Reply Quote Notify

3730  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: March 18, 2010, 11:23:33 AM Quote from: The Changeling on March 18, 2010, 07:20:01 AM John the Baptist was said to have been filled w/the Holy Spirit in the womb, I don't see him as one who was totally depraved. In the CC Mary is said to have that grace applied to her life at conception, she did indeed need/have a Saviour. All I'm saying is there are many christians who did not give themselves over to all manner of wickedness in order to see their need for a Saviour. I'm sure they're just as grateful to God for keeping them from such a life as one is for Him to call them out of it. Jesus was using terms in His day that stunned people. If we were spending time wit Jesus there would be something happening to us or in the society in which we shared with Him. I think people talked about Him as someone who said things that left them in some kind of mental gymnastics. And this is why He probably was talked about and was the most miss understood man of His time. Because where ever Jesus is there is a happening. This is why in His own town people who had seen Him grow up always were trying to discount the event. Jesus was not only a hot button for the culture but He was a threat to the Roman empire. I mean because He was always the instigated fire between Rome and the Temple environment. Jesus received all of the blame. In this way He endure the scorn of men who were always plotting to bring His ministry to the ground and place the people back into the cross hairs of the abuse. Jesus was human and He endure the conflict of this culture and the powerful dominance of men ... not only in terms of healing all physical diseases but  in standing as the intermediate to help people find some kind of redemption in this scornful world. Jesus was always concerned for others as the God of perfect love! Now then here is the standard of goodness. Shall He take any qualifiers? Remove Reply Quote Notify

3731  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance on: March 18, 2010, 11:07:16 AM Quote from: Gouda on March 17, 2010, 11:49:41 PM I'm in. My work and home life has gotten crazy-busy lately, but I love to edit. Some knit, some shop--I play with words for fun. Thanks Gouda... and Kk... this is going to go somewhere... and it will help us all in some way.... lets see where we can take this. Here s a link to one of the sites i frequent a lot. This is invaluable. http://itunes.rts.edu/ It will help to know how i think... Reply Quote Notify

3732  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Literal or non-literal on: March 18, 2010, 11:02:11 AM Every idea in the universe has a relation to the environment in which one is born into. Every form of expression ... not only spoken language but the desire to do something ... a form of inward communication or the motive of the action has the same design and accomplishment as the act itself. This is why Jesus said that hate is like murder... or an act against the thought design in living in a peaceful society. So we can argue from the act to the thought. If we could not produce this evidence then it would be wiser to live with as much personal pleasure as we possibly could because there would be no reason to have a purpose in this life. The definition of a mans existence and his value is determined upon his understanding of the real things of life comparative to the imaginative things. To say that God cannot be understood is to say that a man has no real purpose nor the environment that he lives in. Because all communication is the reality of all that God has designed as the cause of the existence of the matter in the universe. If nothing exist by the words then nothing exist in reality... hehe. Wow... blow your mind people ... cause its worthless. Sarcasm   Reply Quote Notify

3733  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance on: March 17, 2010, 02:06:31 AM Quote from: Gouda on March 17, 2010, 01:20:34 AM Ok, Biggie, what do you think of this edit of your last post?... "This matter of our identity is that reality in which we look at life. We are not people who carry around a message that in its presentation will produce that identity, but through renewal assimilation, we become like what we are in Christ. That is how we conduct ourselves. In other words we do not try to prove what is right--we believe Right will be proved in us. We believe it is reality because we believe the One who reveals it, and we are confident that what we say (no matter if it is not entirely correct) will be used by the Holy Spirit as the means to produce that new identity. We are living proof--not by our own design, nor by our own persuasive argument, but by the result of a flawed individual displaying His extraordinary power and grace wherein we become the new creation. In our weakness, though, we sometimes become impatient with this renewal assimilation, and we begin to tinker with the method and the message.  The more that man determines his own way of doing things the more is the power of this other message, this other identity, this other creation not birthed by God, but by human design.  In the OT worship, when a person was taken captive by a foreign power, he was given another name so that instead of being represented by his name as an Israelite, he was made to forget that identity and, in doing that, the person forgot the covenant love of God. In this case, man substitutes reason for faith, logic for trust, pride for humility.  In other words,  a man first forgets his real identity and he begins to imagine something that is not entirely correct in accepting another way of renewal.  In this temptation is the acceptance of multiple gods for the one, true God--the violation of the first commandment. We are seduced by this other message because of our sinfulness and our desire to prove things. Satan tempts us at our most lowest times through a direct assault through men--our desire to reason toward a solution. It is the head Satan is after, the fatal blow. Our helmet of salvation is our protection in the day of disaster, yet we often tend to replace it with weaker substitutes." This is very good......do you want to edit some of the material? We can put it in a collection on another post. Reply Quote Notify

3734  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Prayers on: March 16, 2010, 06:29:45 PM  Father you are a God of all comfort because you have given us the Spirit of comfort. When we sin and we are aware of your great love and forgiveness.. that you do not remember our sins.. because you treat us as children who are weak then we are filled with the Joy of the Holy Ghost and we rejoice in gazing at your glorious One. Oh Father we are so weak ... sometimes because we feel like such evil sinners.. we are so burdened with our sin.. we practice sin so that we feel like it is more than the hairs of our heads then we have a load to carry. Its our load Father.. because we have not learned your grace enough. For if we heard that you are love then we are made to revive in our whole being and seek you for who you are! What man in his rite mind would seek a God who did not know of all of the problems of this life and was fully aware of our inward parts? Oh Father we know the strength that you have given us.. because we have experienced a portion of your Spirit and we had that power flow through us. Oh Father revive us once again so that your people will be filled with joy unspeakable and full of glory! You have been our only stay in times of sorrow and hurt. There is only one love forever that we can live in. It is your abounding love for us. Your hands reach out to us and restore us to our fortunes. You look away from your wayward church and remove our scorn and scourge. Because we have never seen you not answer us when we call to you...even for those who are not yet received by you. Oh Father save all those who do not know you and who may not know that they do not know you. Revive your church with these reminders that your salvation is great and we are made aware of this in the newness of that life! We haven't seen these wonders for a long time... Father how we long for you to restore our fortunes to us. May we see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. May there be the manna of life falling on us so that in feeding on Christ we may witness new life! Save your people by your power alone. Grant us an abundance of grace and mercy so that we will be raised up above the attraction of this world and find all of our satisfaction in your. For you are a Father who brings us close in order to place us in your bosom of eternal pleasure so that we are made to cry Abba. Revive us once again!    Remove Reply Quote Notify

3735	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why do our opinions differ?	on: March 16, 2010, 05:53:18 PM
dave  Quote We must admit the fact that we actually have a big problem with letting God be God.    When the Holy Spirit introduces us to the Truth of His Word, and it's mysterious to us, and contrary to everything earthly, and contrary to everything we KNOW to be reasonable, we say something similar to what Peter said; "Far be it from you Lord, this shall never happen.  "  Thanks Dave... ive been sitting under some very good preaching in the past. I have eaten the kings meal for about 30 yrs. And ive come to the conclusion as you have stated that there is difficulty letting God be God. I really believe after receiving instruction from the pulpit that it comes down to simple trust in who is speaking. One of the problems we have as members of Gods covenant community is this experience of a violation of our trust. I think we all go through this. It is a human emotion that comes up when we are talking about someone having absolute authority over us. We are very complicated as to how we percieve that authority. This is why God must love us more than we can imagine. Because God never violates our trust. He is always faithful no matter how we struggle. But in my experience of being on the active side of receiving instruction i am not all together honest with myself in this teaching. Now this is the way the Holy Spirit convinces us of this desire to increase in us to go in the way of learning grace. He actually encourages us in taking these teachings personal to try God. I dont mean that we go out and sin without an understanding of the returns but i mean that we are going to sin and yet Gods grace is greater. Here is where i think the distinction is as to growing in the eternal love and faithfulness of our great God. We want to learn to understand His law.. that is his precepts..decrees... statutes etc but when that law is placed before us we retreat under its threatening s. This is why God is different than the whole point of the meeting and the instruction. We are receiving the word of God in the light of being faithful to accomplish all that His word is teaching us. First because He has promised not to remember our sins. I dont mean in forgetting or not holding them against us but in this area of trust. This is why the apostle encourages us to go on from the mere understanding of doctrine and the usage of the means to the personal understanding of presenting ourselves to God as people who need everything from Him. This is why it is impossible for a christian to take God for granted in order to violate that trust. We are not defined by our ability to obey but we are defined by the struggle. This is why we are encouraged to bring our insecurities to God because we have experience a violation of our trust on a horizontal level. God gives us grace by encouraging to come as needy children to a Father who has all mercy and will receive us as we receive our own children. You are correct in saying that we should let God be God. Oh there is more but i will stop.    3738  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: March 16, 2010, 01:31:43 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 15, 2010, 10:09:49 PM One Christian who was thankful to God they didn't have to go down the road of rebellion and self-destruction was/is Billy Graham. And there are no doubt some clean-living "older brothers" of prodigal sons who rejoice to see their brother come back to the Father.  Yet, there are also many people who didn't lead an outwardly corrupt life and are jealous of their forgiven and restored prodigal relative, as Jesus illustrated in the parable. If a person thinks they have been "good" all their lives, what need do they have of a saviour?  And how could they really appreciate the mercy and grace of God when they don't think they have needed any of that themselves?  The complete restoration to favor of the prodigal doesn't seem fair to a person who is content with their own self "righteousness".  Such people are better off being a terrible sinner casting themselves on the forgiveness of God than believing they deserve Heaven on their own merit - for Jesus doesn't "know" them then. Kk... the prodigal son story by Jesus i do not think is directed at those sinners that he hung out with. Jesus was always more soothing toward them than when directing a really harsh parable at the pharisees. Thats why the prodigal is the same as the self righteous brother in the house. What can you compare this generation to... they are always going from one self delusion to another. Or the  self righteous are the keepers of the rules and they are the forgivers of the abusers. I think in real terms Jesus is presenting the difference between grace and law. One of the problems with self religion is that the Father begins to be portrayed as the ogre. If a person is in this kind of religion for a long period of time then he will leave the house so to speak. And you notice that the Father distances himself in the same way from one extreme to the other. Or what i like to call a grace that is really not out of the Father s covenant love. If you can picture someone blaming God for being short of some grace then you have a real picture of the problem of man. As you know these people of whom Jesus was directing His parables to were the chief dispensers of the law of God. This is why the same Jesus who wept over Jerusalem also came with a swift destruction. That old way of approaching God was going to be in the person of Jesus and not in the old national mentality. Jesus was saving the sinners from abusive authority. Because all rulers are infidels to Gods loving grace. They are lenient only in ways where they have protected themselves from the consequences of their evil rule. This is the parable.... please... Jesus was totally human and God. He went out of the house as a human and He was perfect in His actions toward those sinners and he came from the house in oneness with the Father... Jesus offers the only Son that is ruler over the house of God. Lets look at Jesus. Jesus has only one law and He is the King of the earth. Kiss the Son.     Remove Reply Quote Notify 3739  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 16, 2010, 12:06:44 PM  I do not want to sound alarmist but there are many deceiving spirits in our world. It is like a kind of hell. I lived in the community of home schooling for many yrs... a throw back to the 50s.. (my personal missionary work)....and now being introduced to the 20th century we have come a long way baby. Common grace is almost non existent... the collective imagination is producing a generation of miss fits. You know i want to expand my victory to bring the nation to their knees... i have very big designs in my prayers. This has increased the dominate forces of evil to determine for another person what life will be like. The mold of evil is tightening and we are experiencing the paradigm of mens hearts failing. We face having a direct assault ... of these evil designs to get their hands on our families and our personal well being. There is no lid on abuse. Evil men run ram pit and the self righteous deliver the fatal blow.  This is why we need the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit. I believe the belt has been way over emphasized. Hey .. you two liners keep placing more weight from the top down ... we are so attracted to your position of love. sarcasm. But if we can think of a spiritual battle then we must assimilate the invisible forces into this equation because we tend to become mindless in our struggles. We are made to enjoy the highest thoughts of pleasure and the spirits are going to make us narrow and unassertive in our expression of real personal convictions.Because our souls are made to expand in light of all of these connections to reality that we enjoy and yet we must become a generation who produces not only another generation but a multiple family society that act as kings and queens of the great King whose armies protect these institutions that have been forgotten. This is our greatest challenge to know who we are in Christ. So that we fight a force... an invisible force and we gain ground in this opposing praying so that the united spirit of the past will flourish from our knees. We must learn how to uncover the wells of Abraham. We must dig deep in our prayers... this is a God to be feared. I hope you understand why learning to pray is a matter of life and death.    Reply Quote Notify 3740  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance on: March 16, 2010, 11:21:05 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 12, 2010, 03:53:25 PM More gooda advica! I also have never really thought at depth about the nature of the "flesh monster". So do we agree that it includes the baser, more animalistic impulses?  And that it is also related if not equal to the "old man" Paul said we war with? If we are a new creature in Christ, should we never talk in terms of "i am" or "i want" about characteristics of the FleshMon?  Like "i'm depressed", "i want a beer", "i hate this job", etc.  Doesn't it feel strange, though, to talk very long in terms of the new nature?  Not only strange to us but especially to pre-Believers.  Like "it is no longer i who live, but Christ lives in me", "i am seated in the Heavenlies in Christ", "i can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me".  These may be quite true but would often not communicate well to people who deal with us daily. I think i will go back to the beginning of the FlshMnstr thread and see if any definitions were attempted. ======== Found this in one of the early posts: "the flesh is always focused on lack, lack of faith. lack of ability, lack of patience..but not just for the sake of lack..of course these things are lacking in the sense that God has made me weak in the flesh..for that I mean that there are a lot of things the flesh can accomplish on it's own. The flesh can act moral, speak wisely, be creative , work hard , love within it's own ability to show sincere effection, rehab itself to certain degrees and do countless good deeds completely on it's own... But the spirit works in such a way in my life as I grow further that I am getting weaker in it's abilities.." ======== So how about we open a new thread, selecting the best we can glean out of the first Monster thread?  mbG care to do the honors? Thanks for some penetrating questions. This matter of our identity is that reality in which we look at life. We are not people who carry around a message that in its presentation will produce that identity. But through we renewal assimilation we become like what we are. That is how we conduct ourselves. In other words we in a sense do not try to prove something is rite... we know it is reality and we are confident that what we say ... no matter if it is not entirely correct... will be used by the Holy Spirit as the means to produce that new identity. And may i say that a mature believer realizes that there are all kinds of hidden qualities in the environment of the world... look please let me say this... it is a statement that does not get understood by others ... but it is one of my most basic understandings of the way determination is described in real terms.  There are always two messages ... especially in this day and age when things are made to run like a machine. The more that man determines his own way of doing things the more is the power of this other message.... this other identity... its just like the OT worship... when a person was taken captive in by a foreign power he was given another name so that instead of being represented by his name as an Israelite ... he was made to forget that identity and in doing that the person forgot the covenant love of God. This is sorta the way that idols are formed in the heart of man. A man is living in the reality of who he is in Christ and then Satan tries to present a new identity to him ... a whole new way of communication and then through this design in man to argue for his position he slowly begins to present the idol as an alternative. Look at the article in Vanity Fair - Lehman Bros ... link on the Daveed thread..possibly the Art of war philosophy... In other words a man first forgets his real identity and he begins to imagine something that is not entirely correct in accepting the other way of communication.In this temptation it is multiple gods for the one God. The violation of the first commandment. I think in matters of faith we are made to find the other message as more pleasant to our ears because of our sinfulness and desire to prove things. So this is clearly a deception that we need to deal with first. Although since we are entirely corrupted then we find this reality as up and down in ourselves. Satan tempts us at our most lowest times through a direct assault through men... i mean... a man who wants the glory of God finds that this is very messy and it becomes a matter of life and death. Its the head Satan is after... fatal blow. Our helmet is our protection in the day of disaster. Oh man... i could go on for more pages... sorry about the long post.      Reply Quote Notify 3741  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: March 15, 2010, 10:09:57 PM Kk thanks.. been enjoying the communication... been a bit tired ... talk at you tomorrow. Remove Reply Quote Notify 3742  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Gene Zeak has passed away on: March 15, 2010, 09:39:02 PM "For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Having been rendered by this Sword on a personal level, I know who I am. I know but a small part of what I am and really look forward to an eternity of learning. Knowing these things allows one to understand Paul's meaning when he said that he had learned the secret of being content regardless of circumstances. Knowing these things offers one the opportunity to be at peace under any circumstance and in in any company. What appears to be becoming more odd each day is that more and more saints are stepping out who 'get' it and, at the same time. more and more are wandering around with puzzled looks and defending themselves by attacking the ones who do seem to be 'getting it.' The entire thing about that is, for me, it just doesn't matter any more who behaves how even though surprises happen once in a while. The behavior simply reveals the type creature performing that behavior. That Sword, wow! whatever, gene Reply Quote Notify 3743  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Gene Zeak has passed away on: March 15, 2010, 08:27:38 PM Quote from: earnestt on March 15, 2010, 08:09:29 PM “What I'm trying to do here is to get you to relax, to not be so preoccupied with getting, so you can respond to God's giving.” Gene Zeak's analogy OH my. Hey Everyone... I just now found this thread (haven't been on KeyLife's forums in months) and my heart is heavy. I got to know Gene just last year and how I grew to love him quickly, his gentleness. He told me, one of the last times we exchanged in a thread, he'd love to have a cup of Joe with me sometime and just talk. Wow... that means loads at this time. I went back and found my favorite of ALL his posts. I want to share. Enjoy... and God bless each of you. Tryin' to be like Gene and ... Rest in Him, earnestt P.S. I'm hopin' coffee is served fresh everyday where he is, because Gene and I will get to talk over a cup one day! Gonna be fun. Quote   I CAN REST IN HIS LOVE BECAUSE HE MEANS WHAT HE SAYS « on: November 30, 2009, 01:42:13 AM » Quote  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am convinced beyond the shadow of any doubt that absolutely nothing is more powerful than Him and He has promised never to forsake or leave me. I can rest in Him with the knowledge that I am living LOVED every instant of every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every week of every month of every year of every decade of every era of every age … throughout all of eternity. I know I can relax in His promise to not only hold me and never forsake or leave me, but to provide for my very need regardless of circumstances because He is more powerful than any challenge, opportunity, or personal attack on what reputation I may have been gathered. His love is constant regardless of physical pain, regardless of what others think, regardless of whatever mistake I may make, regardless of any power that can exist outside of Him. "For I am certain that not death, or life, or angels, or rulers, or things present, or things to come, or powers, Or things on high, or things under the earth, or anything which is made, will be able to come between us and the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." "For I am certain that nothing can separate us from his love: neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers or powers, neither the present nor the future, neither the world above nor the world below---there is nothing in all creation that will ever be able to separate us from the love of God which is ours through Christ Jesus our Lord." "For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." "I'm absolutely convinced that nothing--nothing living or dead, angelic or demonic, today or tomorrow, high or low, thinkable or unthinkable--absolutely nothing can get between us and God's love because of the way that Jesus our Master has embraced us." He has enabled absolute conviction in my heart that neither death nor life, neither messenger of Heaven nor monarch of earth, neither what happened yesterday, happens today, nor what may happen tomorrow including any power from on high nor a power from below, nor anything else in His entire creation has any ability to separate us from His Love in Jesus Christ our Lord! Because He is Love … the very essence of Love … I can live in complete relaxation and assurance that comes from knowing that He is far more committed to giving than He can ever be at getting. Because His commitment is so absolutely solid, I can concentrate on His giving than any urge I may have at getting any of my needs met, including those social that may come from any person or group around me and whatever opinion they might have of me … none of this even matters as the only opinion important is the one He has of me and I know what this is because He spent so much effort through so many different people over the ages writing this down in a love letter that I can never fail to rest assured regardless of whatever any individual person’s or entire group’s opinion may be of me. His ALWAYS carries more weight and all theirs combined is as a grain of sand compare to the combined sand of all the beaches, lake, gulf, sea, and ocean floors. This is the love I have experienced and will always and forever trump any knowledge I, or anyone else, may ever gain by study. 1 Corinthians 13:4. "Love is never tired of waiting; love is kind; love has no envy; love has no high opinion of itself, love has no pride; Love's ways are ever fair, it takes no thought for itself; it is not quickly made angry, it takes no account of evil; It takes no pleasure in wrongdoing, but has joy in what is true; Love has the power of undergoing all things, having faith in all things, hoping all things. Though the prophet's word may come to an end, tongues come to nothing, and knowledge have no more value, love has no end." (BBE) I have to say that there are times when I have doubt in how these things matter in the midst of what is currently happening, but then realize that these words of Paul are describing the very nature of my God who loves me beyond comprehension. Those words could just as easily have been penned "God is never tired of waiting; God is kind; God has no envy; god has no high opinion of itself, God has no pride; God's ways are ever fair, He takes no thought for Himself; He is not quickly made angry, He takes no account of evil; He takes no pleasure in wrongdoing, but has joy in what is true; God has the power of undergoing all things, having faith in all things, hoping all things. Though the prophet's word may come to an end, tongues come to nothing, and knowledge has no more value ... Abba, Father has no end." My God is patient because He understands everything in my heart. He knows why I do what you do and is never taken off guard. My God is kind, He desires to touch me in my heart ... the heart is always His aim and He never misses. God does not envy. He never desires to take for Himself what I have, but longs to give away all that He has and is never tempted to take things back because He didn't get the attention. My God does not boast or brag about the highest Truths about Himself, but willingly lowers Himself below me in order to lift me up. God is not proud or of the opinion that He doesn't need anyone. He desires relationship with me and continuously makes Himself vulnerable for the purpose of making that possible. My God is not rude, He never leaves thing unfinished or unspoken. He does not give me the silent treatment, or plays hard to get, but makes everything known and keeps nothing hidden. My God is not self-seeking. He is gratified and fulfilled when I am glorified. His eyes are always seeking what's best for me and He never worries about what He gets in return. My God is not easily angered or provoked to any mood other than Love. He is not high maintenance and He never wants me to walk in fear of offending or hurting Him. My God keeps no record of my wrongs. He refuses to call me by the name of my past. He doesn't hold things over me or against me. He continuously and eternally wipes my record clean so that He can clearly focus on my heart. My God does not delight in evil. He is not tempted by luring lies, hype, or fantasies. He does not desire romance because His heart desires the real me. He cannot be enticed by anything benefiting His Kingdom at my expense ... ever. My God rejoices in the Truth about me because it is so wonderful and meaningful to Him. My God always protects me from caving in to unbearable pressure and anguish. He provides me strength to hold me up in the midst of life's storms and carries me to my very purpose which is to be His child and I know I am to rest in that. My God always trusts me with His Heart doors open to me, at all times ... with no exceptions. My God always hopes in me because He knows that He knows the end of my story. My God always perseveres and proves Himself to be Who He claims to be. He stands through the storm and walks through the fire only to demonstrate the authenticity of His Love for me. My God never fails because He is driven by His very essence. Love, is the part of Him that sees everything inside of me, including every emotion. His Love for me soaks through every outward thing that stands in His way and saturates my spirit, soul, and body forever. "Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth]. For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect). But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded). When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside. For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [by God]. And so faith, hope, love abide [faith--conviction and belief respecting man's relation to God and divine things; hope--joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; love--true affection for God and man, growing out of God's love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13: 8-13, AMP) These things I know, "I need to know that there are no expectations on me, my decisions, or of my behavior. I am totally free in Christ. I need to know that I can never disappoint anyone who loves me because those who do have no disillusions about my humanity, and with no expectations, it's absolutely impossible to disappoint one who loves me ... I’m totally free in Christ. I need to know that no one who loves me will ever compare me to anyone else because I’m absolutely unique. There never has been a person like me since the beginning of creation and there will never be another like me after I go Home ... I’m totally free in Christ. I need to know that there is no condemnation for me as a child of God, regardless of any decision I make, any choice I choose, or any behavior I commit ... I’m totally free in Christ. Cindy, I are loved more than I can know. I am totally free in Christ." Every word in this post is from the Holy Spirit. Each is as much for you as they are for me or any believer. Each is as true for me as for you, His child. I need to know that there are no expectations on me, my decisions, or of my behavior ... I’m totally free in Christ. I need to know that I can never disappoint anyone who loves me because those who do have no disillusions about my humanity, and with no expectations, it's absolutely impossible to disappoint one who loves me ... I’m totally free in Christ. I need to know that no one who loves me will ever compare me to anyone else because I’m absolutely unique. There never has been a person like me since the beginning of creation and there will never be another like me after I go Home ... I’m totally free in Christ. I need to know that there is no condemnation for me as a child of God, regardless of any decision I make, any choice I choose, or any behavior I commit ... I’m totally free in Christ. I am loved more than I can know. I am totally free in Christ." I know Truth and I am free. The absolute meat of the gospel, “What I'm trying to do here is to get you to relax, to not be so preoccupied with getting, so you can respond to God's giving.” People who don't know God and the way he works fuss over these things, but you know both God and how he works. Steep your life in God-reality, God-initiative, God-provisions. Don't worry about missing out. You'll find all your everyday human concerns will be met. Give your entire attention to what God is doing right now, and don't get worked up about what may or may not happen tomorrow. God will help you deal with whatever hard things come up when the time comes." (Matthew 6:31-34, MSG) whatever, gene     Thanks brother...that brought me to tears... i am going to miss him ... that is what i got all the time from Gene... wow! Reply Quote Notify 3744  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 15, 2010, 06:18:22 PM Kk... i truly come from the paradigm of freedom. So when i write it is from my own inner spiritual confidence. This is a day and age in which we use terms that are biblical but have been redefined through repetitive information. The term sin has been redefined. My thinking on this is that we can create the appearance of something as the nominal activity of a christian. I think Satan is a master mind at this. Since i have been discussing some of my interactions with Gene let me explain what i mean. When we communicate with people who have a disconnect with a society in which there was a strong family unite and it was a visual learning of past history ... not necessary given to the continuous auditory or sense obsession... we can hear these terms like sin and conclude that it means for us to focus on a purely mechanical reaction to these things. And this is why i think Christians get frustrated. Because when we have the inward work of the Spirit we have a very distinct paradigm of reality. It is possible to live as an active member of the covenant community and be totally oblivious to the christian inward communication. I mean as this distinct 20 th century culture of impersonal voices. When we have a society where things get taken out of context by the general tendency to act in ways that are from this sense and site paradigm we are dealing with a direct influence on crossing lines in just who is to be exhorted and how the gotcha mentality produces a physiological profile of this idea that anyone can act like a christian... given enough rules. This is where i want to focus as a matter of confronting the demons... i mean.. the hateful darkness that we build up as believers toward this wrong application. Do you see what i mean? Man i am trying really hard.. we may need to rework the words tho. Reply Quote Notify 3745  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: March 14, 2010, 03:13:17 PM Quote K_k:  Is it an "intrigue of men" with the motive to captivate, to try to help those who are bound by sinful habits, heading toward death quickly, yet who cannot seem to "get" the Christian message of salvation (probably due to incorrect earlier teaching)?  Is it wrong to take the Scripture, in meditation and prayer, as the basis for an approach to draw such people back to God? And would it be an error for Jesus to reach out to the dying in the humility of anonymity?  Doesn't He do so through doctors and nurses and counselors and unbelieving friends?  Yet isn't He ever trying to move us closer to Himself, without forcing us, in the compassion that seeks only to serve and to save? Our seeming disagreement always seems to point to this core issue.  Can Christ reach out to us just as we are, unbelief and all, spiritual warts and all, in order to begin to open our eyes to His "slightly invisible Hand" which was there in our lives long, long before we began to suspect it?  I say yes, and you say? First ... every reality is determined by the will of God. So that makes our activity on this earth narrower. And in knowing the will of God ... that activity expands our influence. In a sense we are not the agents of change. Now this is how we know the difference. It is in our core beliefs because we are what we believe. Before our relationship with others we have a relationship with God and ourselves. The definition of dominance is determined by how we think of this influence. I will repeat this.. it seems to come to me more often than not. A man will argue about things because he is convinced that they are real. No man is convinced of something that he does not hold dear to his own view of things. So that all men are wrong in some aspect of what they would die for. This has everything to do with our view of powers of sin..the conflict we have in dealing with sin and others. This is why we define free grace as the real bases for real reality. You can have a philosophy that is equal with grace that looks like grace. You can say... i went through a certain struggle in life and so now i am able to help the people in this struggle. But that really is not the concept. Its that we project the deep sorrow on the other person by bringing in things that will remedy the situation and yet we have not grown enough in grace to know that we can overcome that problem when we are confronted with it in a real temptation. (forgiveness)The apostle did not say follow my pattern.... period. He said follow me in-spite of my being human. Follow me as i follow Christ ... a pattern of sin and forgiveness.... weakness and sorrow... or i understand the main things ... i dont get side tracked... i understand the specifics of grace. I do not lead people into some kind of false freedom. Remove Reply Quote Notify 3746  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Ephesians Commentary .... John Calvin on: March 14, 2010, 02:58:31 PM Quote from: THOR on March 10, 2010, 08:56:32 PM Quote This makes it evident that their salvation was accomplished, not by any accidental or unlooked-for occurrence, but by the eternal and unchangeable decree of God. Quote • Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Note the similarity of the heresy of John Calvin to the Galatians error, i.e. putting your trust in something other than directly Christ for salvation. Trust in circumcision or trust in predestination? It's the same animal! It's not in Christ. When we arrive a Heavens gates Saint Peter won't check first to see if we had been place a head of time on the guest list, he will ask us upon what authority should he let us in and our reply must be ...because we have personally trusted fully in the blood of Christ to wipe away all our sin and to give us eternal life. Anyone who trusts in a decree never given by God instead of in Jesus will be put to shame. Thor Thor.. i have a disagreement about your lack of distinguishing between a physical thing and the exercise of the intellect. First... i do not believe that free sovereign grace lowers a man to the instinct of animals. I think that is backwards thinking. Thats why i disagree with you because you make no distinction between a thing and the exercise of a higher being. We  are created in Gods image because everything that we enjoy comes from the cause of His will.. which is the only exercise that can bring a thing into reality. We are exalting man in exalting Gods willing things into existence.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 3747  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 14, 2010, 02:36:27 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 14, 2010, 02:19:49 PM I don't think there is any Scripture which says, or even suggests that Satan can read minds.  On the other hand, if a person is deliberately, at their own request, possessed by demonic powers, those agents of Satan would have an "inside workplace", so to speak. The forces of evil can suggest thoughts to us, that seems clear, but can they actually read our minds?  My guess is that they are very observant of our every action, word, inflection, body language, etc, so that they may appear to be mind readers, yet aren't really. It also seems clear that when Christ comes in to us as Saviour there should be no concern at all about it.  I see no Biblical concept that a Spirit-fulled Believer in Jesus can be demon-possessed or be directly controlled by Satan or be susceptible to mind-reading by him. "Greater is He Who is within you than he who is in the world" applies in every possible way. Thanks Kk... i want to answer the other questions you addressed to me... and you are right... i think the practical experience in this life has a lot of questions to be answered tho. A Christian is shielded from not only the power of Satan but there are things we carry around in our heads that are caused by a learned process of satanic pre dispositions. If you could picture it... you have these different families and there is a history there based upon the history of the doctrinal disposition.We have realities in our heads in the way we approach this world and the attractiveness we find in our relationships. And to simplify this we can picture ourselves as feeling things in our understanding of our general outlook of life. So that we come down to some core issues or we have the ultimate disposition of free grace as our design to think of what we trust in as our confidence. And then there is the measurement of power that we have available as to distinguish our experience of a form of this free grace. The first question we must ask in this American dis positional spirit is when i get up in the morning how can i determine the level of this activity of rejection as being defined by how i approach the scriptures... and doing good works? We must get to the point were we know ourselves by real grace. Grace is sort of a confidence we enjoy without the spirit of rejection or blame... this level of anger that forces us to have motives of doing things for ourselves to prove we are good. Ok... look... lets be honest this is where we find the most obnoxious spirit of religions encouragement. We must approach ourselves in praying with the intent to get to the bottom of our rejection. This is the most profound struggle that the devil will use to keep us from all of the realities of the christian experiencing of peace. Some people never grow past this as a matter of the size of the problem. Do you understand our conflict with a personal devil in this way? Why do i have the horizontal rule on this thread? That big black line? Kk is there a big black line on your computer that is underneath my threads?  oh sorrweee ... i found the problem .. it was the expanding key on my key board.. i like the increase the letter size by the circular key. Reply Quote Notify 3748  Forums / Main Forum / Re: To All from Daveed on: March 14, 2010, 02:15:54 PM Lehman’s Desperate Housewives Lehman Brothers C.E.O. Dick Fuld expected his top executives to get married, and stay married. For their wives, the firm was both fishbowl and shark tank, with unwritten rules about the clothes they wore, the charities they supported, and the hikes they took at the company’s Sun Valley retreats. One and a half years after the firm’s collapse, in an excerpt from her new book, the author sums up the high price—a life of isolation, backstabbing, and hypocrisy—paid by Lehman’s better halves. Here is the link... i hope you will read this and consider that it is nothing short of going to the bottom... i think we might be there better days are gone... not sure yet....just hang in there Daveed... there is more sorrow in this world now even on the other side of the tracks. Get as much help as you can if you cant find a job. http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/lehman-wives-201004 this one is scary. I know the election is going to solve our problems.. guys.. take the rose colored glasses off and start preaching to a a nation under socialism . Reply Quote Notify 3749  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 14, 2010, 12:22:45 PM There are two places were Satan is almost impossible to uproot. Because Satan is an angel of light. So the world is his domain but the world is a dog on a leash. But the institutional church.. or Gods covenant community and the covenant of marriage are two entirely distinct wars. The principle is that God will not harm his children in order to completely destroy satan in these two institutions. God is extremely faithful to his children in this covenant way. Billy joe is really rich but this secret idolater is faithful in giving and taking care of some of the helpless in the church... God is really practical. If i told you about my life it would be evident that Satan has buffeted me at times where i have almost lost my mind. People stood around and honestly did not know what to do. I have suffered extreme mental anguish. I believe my good friend Gene was murdered by Satan. As RR said Gene had a very mature understanding of grace... i myself experienced this power in conversations with him.... God bless the lovers of this world. But i am not unaware of the devils schemes. This is why i believe we do not really consider this initial responsibility to wage war against the works of the devil. I dont mean to go out a physically call for a war. If the Lord does not stand gaurd over the city the watchmen stand guard in vain. Or if the Lord does not keep the enemy from climbing the walls of the city to enter it then the city will suffer violence. This is why... i do not have a rule... but the church has suffered violence because they ceased to defend themselves through singing the Psalms. Prayer is the refuge of all kinds of victorious and destroying powers. Satan attacked the apostle continuously and ruthlessly... he hounds some believers like a raving dog. And he is allowed to make believers suffer physical pain and mental pain. I only say this because of the testimony of some people. ok stop here.  I must say if i am aloud to continue that the Lord scoffs and laughs from on high... a direct over all promise to teach us how to proceed in this world in this matter of boldness and stouthearted ness. In understanding this conflict in using His promises to inflict defeat. In His prayers prayers through David... the king who enjoyed complete destruction.   Reply Quote Notify 3750  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Satanic Power During Prayer on: March 14, 2010, 11:26:51 AM I need to warn about this thread... i mean.. something could be taken out of context and this is a very difficult subject. If anyone has a valid prayer life i would encourage you to pray for me because i am susceptible to depression. I consider this a personal war and a direct assault to my identity. Maybe a future reference.  Dude ... i do not know who you are but you read my mind. Ive had strong urges to speak in this way for a couple of days now... thanks.. i was going to avoid this. I have been thinking of this subject since the death of my friend Gene. First you asked about the scripture that says that Satan is not omnipresent. In Job i think it says that Satan traveled from the earth to present himself to God. Well rite there it is inferred that he is not like God who inhabits both heaven and earth. So if he is confined by space then he obviously cannot be in two places at one time so that he is confined to an understanding of where he has been. Unlike God who knows the beginning from the end. But Satan has a kingdom...his demons and fallen angels and he has his children. This is where there is great confusion. Now there are some distinctions that i make when i meet a person. There is the personal testimony and then on the other hand there is the doctrine or the way to deal with Satan.  You see movies about evil..a story of super naturalism interact with the physical universe ... this is the way our lives are on this earth. There is a possibility that someone has had direct contact with Satan and his demons that needs to be told in order to support him being present. I do not think this is giving Satan too much credit. There is wisdom in knowing how evil works and how the devil works... other wise we would be gullible. But Satan is behind all disasters and evil crimes done on humanity. And since his work is in his children then we can say that he is their real father. So that we can conclude that when we want to know what Satan is like we just look at how his children act.On the other hand if there are special circumstances in a believers life that he is confronting ...it could be satan. This is where scripture focuses on. Because as the family goes ... so goes society. Oh this is going to take some time.    Were did the horizontal rule come from?... should we take this to Purgatory?... i dont know. 3754  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: March 11, 2010, 02:07:39 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 11, 2010, 01:56:40 PM mbG:  "We start by looking in the mirror of Gods glory not mans principles.  Our system of belief shows our motives." ... "Christian realism is living in the universe of the peace and joy of the Holy Ghost by the work of God alone. It is being exposed to the temptations of this world as God leads a man and learning through slipping the love and mercy of God. At the most reprobate level of society is the most understanding of the grace and mercy of God. Because God does not dwell with the gods of this earth. God will not have any equals." ... K_k:  We are in complete agreement in these kind of statements (given some editing and word choice correction, smile).  We have different understanding about statements such as: mbG:  "Listen to me.... the ways of peace warn us of the intrigues of men. Look up intrigue... its to captivate someone by language. This is why we focus on what a man says in light of the truth of scripture. The universe starts with what a man believes about God and then he forms his words by that principle. We avoid the intrigues of men. If you ask yourself the question... when i get around these people... do they try to captivate me in order to change me? It is not just a matter of behavior... it is motive." K_k:  Is it an "intrigue of men" with the motive to captivate, to try to help those who are bound by sinful habits, heading toward death quickly, yet who cannot seem to "get" the Christian message of salvation (probably due to incorrect earlier teaching)?  Is it wrong to take the Scripture, in meditation and prayer, as the basis for an approach to draw such people back to God? And would it be an error for Jesus to reach out to the dying in the humility of anonymity?  Doesn't He do so through doctors and nurses and counselors and unbelieving friends?  Yet isn't He ever trying to move us closer to Himself, without forcing us, in the compassion that seeks only to serve and to save? Our seeming disagreement always seems to point to this core issue.  Can Christ reach out to us just as we are, unbelief and all, spiritual warts and all, in order to begin to open our eyes to His "slightly invisible Hand" which was there in our lives long, long before we began to suspect it?  I say yes, and you say? Kk ... let me think about this.. i am wit you tho... its in the details. I like that you can give a general description tho. I dont want to sound arrogant but every thing i write comes from a mixture of our natural longings with the Calvinist concept of grace.... i want to get into someones mind. Remove Reply Quote Notify 3755  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Levitical Feasts on: March 11, 2010, 01:48:33 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 11, 2010, 01:32:59 PM I see a lot of wisdom in what you shared, Obed.  And i am confidant there is more to the standard Christian holidays than just an accommodation to paganism, as some groups insist.  I can see there would have been a natural process of wanting to celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection, and other events in His life and the life of heroes of the faith -- followed by some accommodation to existing religions which were being displaced by Christianity, yet elements persisted from the previous practices.  Both combined to build our traditions. But my experience has also been that many churches have distanced themselves so far from the commanded feasts of God's chosen people given in the OT, that very little is taught about them.  So when i saw a presentation of "Christ in the Passover" by a Messianic rabbi, i was "blown away".  Why didn't the churches tell me about this? Then i went on an excited hunt-down of possible meanings in the other festivals in Leviticus.  And along that "rabbit-trail" i began to see the extraordinary beauty of the foreshadowing of Christ in those feasts.  Every detail comes alive in Him. It then becomes natural to want to try practicing the rules outlined in Scripture for them.  And then it seems that the battle with legalism begins.  The tendency to feel superior to those who don't practice the rules, or at least practice them like "our group" does, becomes dangerous spiritually.  And somewhere the rules get modified by later Jewish rabbis, so the actual practice is no longer strictly Biblical. Which leads back to a desire to look more deeply at the feasts without guilt-tripping anyone or creating a "we're holier than thou" attitude for either those that keep Biblical festivals or those who feel strongly about traditional holidays or those who do both or do neither.  What can we learn, how can we appreciate them, maybe practice some a little, without diving into an arrogant "one-up-man-ship" mentality? Kk... i am not educated in the practical aspects of the feast. But i know when Peter got up to speak in Acts ... and Paul too.. they brought these events out as reminders of Gods love and faithfulness to the nation of Israel. I know that it is more a national relationship than a gentile set of cultural settings. And it may be good to keep the culture in principle. Remembering and celebrating . There is nothing wrong with a day as long as its in principle in remembering that Christ fulfilled all of these events. And also that God is the same God in the OT as the NT.. that His salvation is remembered in any nation through these happenings. I grew up in Miami and had some exposure to the culture. There is a lot of wisdom we can get from the principles of the ot laws and we find that our legal system of America was taken from these principles. But at the same time Christ sanctified all of these pleasures we draw from things and cultures for our usage. Lets teach each other and give gifts to each other in these pleasures. I learned this because i married into another culture as well as my own with my wife. I think we have lost the covenant content of the ot and we have lowered the standard of the importance of these events. Its because of our refusal to consider these things that we have this moral god of America. Some kind of god with a big stick keeping America supporting the moral causes all over the world. The covenant God of Israel was a loving God who protected Israel from every enemy. The nation had a very high view of God.. they just liked their idols better. Except the remnant. Reply Quote Notify 3756  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance on: March 11, 2010, 01:23:10 PM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 11, 2010, 12:51:42 PM I liked the title "Romans and the Flesh Monster", too.  Caught my attention right off the bat.  And, as you know, my life is somewhat wrapped around that subject. Some of your other titles seem mild, or overused, and i didn't know Gene.  Do you not like a run-on subject like "OurBigGod E-theology"?  Any input from Gud/PJ? If you don't want to focus on just one thing, maybe we could write a paragraph or so on one chapter, then jump to the next, and the next, then back to chapter one, etc.  Plus, i'm sure you will be pumping out your already existing threads, some of which could be incorporated into an exploration of Romans and the heart of doctrine. If we did decide to go with that book, here are the section titles the NASB gives which could be selected from for our section titles, should we agree on them. Rom 1:   The Gospel Exalted, Unbelief and Its Consequences Rom 2:   The Impartiality of God, The Jew Is Condemned by the Law Rom 3:   All the World Guilty, Justification by Faith Rom 4:   Justification by Faith Evidenced in the Old Testament Rom 5:   The results of Justification Rom 6:   Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God Rom 7:   Believers United to Christ, The Conflict of Two Natures Rom 8:   Deliverance from Bondage, Our Victory in Christ Rom 9:   Solicitude for Israel Rom 10: The Word of Faith Brings Salvation Rom 11: Israel Is Not Cast Away Rom 12: Dedicated Service Rom 13: Be Subject to Government Rom 14: Principles of Conscience Rom 15: Self-denial on Behalf of Others No doubt we could "spice them up" from our own experiences with the Flesh Monster.  Thoughts? Right now i would like to focus on Rom. 5. 6, 7 and 8.. i would need to write 6 volumes if it expanded to the whole book... . and this is something that is dear to my heart because of the awful state of religion at this time.... I also would like for us to start with the original post at the flesh monster and go over them with a fine tooth comb so that we can get the process in place then we can start some originals. Maybe everyone can teach me something in order to do a better job on the originals... you know what i am saying? Reply Quote Notify 3757  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Prayers on: March 11, 2010, 01:04:37 PM Father when we draw near to you ... you spread all your pleasure before our eyes. When your Spirit is strong He speaks to us as a companion. Then all things are put in their proper place and we are raised up to rejoice in your work as everything is order for that oneness we feel flowing over us. Father your mercy to us draws us to the depths of wonder. We find so much space inside of us to be filled with a new love for our great King. Father we are baptized in the fire from on high. We are in awe of your great word of salvation. This is why we are drawn to you because you control all of the events in our lives. Oh Father this assurance that you impart is something we cannot explain. For we are consumed in your love. Father you are love itself. Our desire is to be filled to overflowing so that we will always find the spirit of joy and thanksgiving.. because you baptize us with wonder. Oh Father you know the most sensitive parts of our hearts and you are aware of our need. Oh fill us with a glory that we will find to take us to you. Father you presence is streaming down from heaven in which we find that all things are worked out so that we cannot exhaust your goodness. Your goodness extends beyond the ends of the earth. Oh Father we are captivated by eternity and we feel awed by your presence. Praise to the Most High! Remove Reply Quote Notify 3758  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Prayers on: March 11, 2010, 12:34:46 PM Father we thank you that You have not left us to our own devices.In your defense of us .. you have left us with the means of prayer. So that you promise to work through our prayers. And we know that in the past you have destroyed all of the nations in generations gone by so that your work is much bigger than our own vision. You part the red sea... you cause the big fish to swallow Jonah... you brought in snow storms .. you ordain hurricanes.. tornado's and you control the weather patterns. For you are the King of the earth! And yet you have ordained for us to see your wonders performed before our eyes as a king. Father even tho we feel helpless thats all you want us to bring as your loved children. For we are amazed that we can pray and effect your working these wonders. And you Father promise to perform wonders on our behalf so that in your knowledge you are working in the uttermost regions of the earth on our personal behalf. For we are always spreading our request before you as desiring to see you bring down the nations of this earth so that we will see you rule through your righteous King! This is why we are amazed in a personal way because you remind us of your wonders by altering the direction of nations  through our prayers! We are drawn near to a God who is far above the earth who places His feet on the earth as His footstool. We know how you design your rest so that we find that wonder in new salvation experiences.  Father we pray for your protection and in your good time you keep a record of our blood spilled! Oh Great God... King of the earth speak salvation to us so that when we draw near to You again we will hear the greatness of your rule ... for we have lived our days as seeing your wonders on this earth. For if men ruled then there would be total chaos. But we know that there is joy in your presence because you answer us with awesome deeds of righteousness. Oh great and mighty warrior ... up hold our personal causes so that we may tell of your great wonders as displayed in public. We will watch once again! Remove Reply Quote Notify 3759  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Simple Philosophical discussion 101 on: March 11, 2010, 12:09:48 PM I have been reading St Thomas... form is a hard concept for me.. because of the immensity of God. How can there be a space in between the creation and God? Ok... when we think of transparency we are talking about being consumed by the otherness of that immensity. In other words is it a real ... reality to think that God communicates to us as parts? Or is it more of a transparent reality that we are in God? The otherness of God is His knowledge about the whole as seeing it as it really is. This is why He does not think in linear paradigms. But everything is laid bare with who we have to give an account. That account of being in Christ of God. If we are in God then Gods revelation of Himself is His image of the word. Or its the Word revealed. Ok... form or image if it comes from the concept of the revelation then as long as its God Himself in the word and the end of the image ... the beginning of the image and the end of the image then there are things we do not know but the potential to know is that transparent nearness to the image. Or its dwelling in God. Ok there is no separation because His work is His pleasure in us. Or the goodness in us is His goodness. So that He is good in our badness and our goodness.    Remove Reply Quote Notify 3760  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: God on: March 11, 2010, 11:49:51 AM I like the picture of the King of the world who faces the schemes of man and earthly rulers ... but He is also the great Shepperd of His people. His children are not able to directly effect the events in history. And the rulers of the earth are easily forgotten. Because the King will not allow man to control the destiny of the entire scope of history. This King is slow to anger... but swift in punishment. His rule is a judgment that comes swiftly and it is surprising. But as the King of the earth He is our great Shepherd. And we must be drawn to Him ... because we are most miserable in being blind of all good. This is what is also surprising... that a King who rules with a rod of iron would be so kind in His dealings with us. Because we suffer from a lack of understanding and intellectual pleasure. So that unless He shines forth into our faces ... in regeneration and renewal then we would never desire to see true goodness. That is why He shines out all over the earth.. in order to give us a knowledge of His eternal love, faithfulness and goodness. Because we are not just vessels of intelligence but we know everything through our senses. This is why we are drawn to Him because in having the light of His countenance exposing us to this goodness we are drawn to seek Him for who He is. That is we seek the face of the King who shines forth from in between the heavenly and higher created order. Because we draw near to Him.. we know that these creatures that are near Him are very much higher in their understanding and praise. But we find on this earth darkness and sin. So that in order for us to find any kindness we must be exposed to His goodness love and mercy or we would walk in the way of our own pleasure. This is why He directs us to the fields of quietness and peace! If we are made to love the object who is Love then we can only find Him in peace and quiet. Beside the streams of water... the refreshing presence of His Spirit. In the streams of God are the pleasures of all of His goodness! These streams that flow down from His throne and make a puddle that we are made to rest near. It is His very presence that we are made to dwell in and we find that we will lack nothing! Oh may our God come... may He be the living God on this dead earth... for all life is sustained by HIs will! Reply Quote Notify 3761  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Gene Zeak has passed away on: March 11, 2010, 10:31:18 AM Genes favorite saying was... i want you to relax... you know i got to know Gene and  he was the most open and available spirit that i had ever encountered. Gene to me was bigger than life. He was a man who had this radical change... like the apostle paul. And it was special cause Gene could make you feel like the most special person in the world.. i really did not see a spirit of blame... it was something that God did with Him though suffering. I felt like a hateful Calvinist in his presence on the phone. Cause of his suffering i was touched with real love and peace. Gene was the biggest example of what our Father is because of his special dependence. He was a broken man who loved to talk about the vine and the branches. When i wanted to really understand dependence... i read Gene. He knew more about grace by experience than i will ever know by doctrine. He is my hero. Let me brag on Gene a little... he had a very high I Q. He belong to Mensa.... but if you talked to him it was all directed toward the grace of God. Gene saw past my arguments and knew just what to say and by the time i got to the end of the phone call i was genuinely relaxed. I wish God would have kept him here a little longer cause he was a guy i would have gone through the deepest sorrows with. But he deserves to be in completeness.  Reply Quote Notify 3762  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: March 11, 2010, 09:55:43 AM People learn to live with the attraction that they develop by the kind of disposition expressed to them as they develop into adults. There is this odd relationship we develop in this life as we imagine ourselves to face this world of pressure in light of offering ourselves in our help to our fellow man. Christian love is not something we can totally figure out. Thats why this disposition of love determines the WCF dis positional pattern of finding our place as we are gifted and being encouraged to add more gifts in light of the language of love and grace. There is a generational disposition of encouragement to one way or the other. I really do not want to say that the tension of freedom is this magnetic attraction to failure of Gods work in us. I mean some of us have very fragile dispositions. And some of us are determined to dominate from the position of self confidence. I do not think that self confidence comes from the same family. Sometimes self confidence comes from weakness... i mean... desperation brings out this aggressiveness... and on the other hand there are people with a large dosage of dis positional tephlon. All men get caught in both extemes but there is a general direction as a matter of individual dispositions. This is why we need to know ourselves lest we be captivated by men according to the devils schemes. For he is the master accuser. Reply Quote Notify 3763  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Counseling and how to deal with it. on: March 11, 2010, 09:09:30 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 11, 2010, 01:11:41 AM mbG:  "I like to say that its God who works in me for the good and i work that out. Us Calvinist are such weenies"  Grin K_k:  No question that He works in the good.  Then He usually works it out also, but i normally take the credit -- until i get more honest.  I'm a weenie too; does that make me "Calvinist"?    mbG:  "Biblical counsel is that voice that points us to trust in God alone as our only refuge. Biblical counsel points us to dependence." K_k:  Precisely what the 12 steps counsel - complete dependence on God, lack of dependence on self.  No surprise there, since the "steps" come from the Scriptures. mbG:  "Oh Kk .. instead of saying that serenity phrase... say..this one... "What i want to do i do not do...what i do not want to do ... that i do"" K_k:  That describes the "first step", which is admitting that we are powerless and our lives are unmanageable apart from God.  That is, i don't do what i know i should, and i do keep doing what i know i shouldn't do.  Which proves i don't have the ability to do right in, and of, myself.  Which will ultimately lead us to ask Him what He wants us to do, and growing dependence on Him for guidance and empowerment to do that.  If, that is, we can become rigorously honest with ourselves, by His grace.  The lie that kills is that we have rightness apart from the Source of all rightness - His Love. As you know i am a Calvinist... and my covenants are terribly important to me... so that it is not a matter of judicial equality. Because criminal behavior is to incite through words the actions of other people. So there is a very distinct difference between grace as that voice that has no equal and grace that shares the same qualifications as law. This is a fact... This is why there is so much confusion today. It comes in the principle that practical advice and doctrinal wholeness are equal. Its like the good cop and the bad cop. In this view mens appearance ... the places they have in society and the amount of exposure of their weakness qualify all relationships. In other words in order for a man to have inward wholeness he must focus on his outward behavior. Or it could be that there are two languages ... the professional language... that is the counsel of truth according to the law and the focus on inward redemption in light of the behavioral modification. But as i have been saying there are only two systems in this universe. The system that convinces a man through revelation of the condition of his heart and the system that appears good but does not have a good motive. The bible distinguish holistic design this as a love- hate universe. Or a universe where salvation is a matter of grace and deliverance through identity or on the other hand self fulfillment through appearance. We start by looking in the mirror of Gods glory not mans principles.  Our system of belief shows our motives. This is why there is a very distinct voice of counsel. And this counsel has no equals. It is a counsel that starts with the image of a man as he is made to be in light of all of the causes of these qualities of peace and comfort as a contrast to his present relationships and troubles. Christian realism is living in the universe of the peace and joy of the Holy Ghost by the work of God alone. It is being exposed to the temptations of this world as God leads a man and learning through slipping the love and mercy of God. At the most reprobate level of society is the most understanding of the grace and mercy of God. Because God does not dwell with the gods of this earth. God will not have any equals. The danger is not necessarily with the man who is a fool in scoffing at the way of grace. The danger is with the religious man who looks like he is good. This is why when we say that dependence on God is only the good cop we are distinguishing the bad cop as having a different father by identity. There is sort of a pox mentality.  The gospel is justification by faith or its a declaration that we are totally sanctified at the time of salvation. We walk in the ways of peace. Listen to me.... the ways of peace warn us of the intrigues of men. Look up intrigue... its to captivate someone by language. This is why we focus on what a man says in light of the truth of scripture. The universe starts with what a man believes about God and then he forms his words by that principle. We avoid the intrigues of men. If you ask yourself the question... when i get around these people... do they try to captivate me in order to change me? It is not just a matter of behavior... it is motive.  If you dont believe me...memorize the book of Psalms and then come and talk to me... beware of the dogs.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 3764  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: In Memory of Gene Zeak on: March 11, 2010, 06:22:53 AM I am going to miss Gene... he encouraged me on the phone in a way that made me relax. He was a man full of the grace of God... But he definitely deserves to be rewarded now... What a big heart of love. Reply Quote Notify 3765  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance on: March 11, 2010, 06:16:36 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on March 10, 2010, 11:36:15 PM After a little more research, i realized with a head-hitting OH, its AOL Instant Messenger, he's talking about, AIM.  I don't know much about such things -- always avoided AOL and IM for some reason. I was thinking of a slower, more studious approach.  One way (which Gouda might not care for), is for us to develop an outline we agree upon, then a table of contents and introduction, right here in the forums.  Then, for each chapter, we could have a separate thread.  You would post a few paragraphs (like in the Theology Kept Simple thread).  Then let us volunteers ask questions, make comments, suggest clarified wording, etc.  When you are satisfied that you have gotten all the input you need, and make whatever changes you want, then we post those paragraphs to a different thread which contains only "final draft" posting. A little snail-paced, a little awkward, perhaps, but careful, and open to whomever wants to check in on the process/progress.  And a clear opportunity for us all to experience and demonstrate growth in humility.  Such a deal. I am willing to be out-voted if the others, or you, don't want to put the revision process on public display, but i vote for max transparency. I like the title Romans and the Flesh monster... its catchy and it would in my opinion be attractive  to the average joe. RR could help us out too. Ive only been writing here for about 5 yrs.. ... and my love for theology is stronger than it was when i started. This is a title that i can write a lot of stuff about... sin .. temptation... grace... joy and peace. I do not like to feel inhibited..... and i do not like to focus on one thing... so maybe we could go back and forth... like we could focus on the book with the outline.. and sometimes we could focus on my old writing for a devotional book. My practice has been ... meditation on most of the Psalms... there are a large number of doctrines ... but.. it becomes apparent  to me that i focus on one particular area after my meditation. So i might come up with a few ideas.. different directions.. as we move along. Here are some more titles... touching heaven... old habits... There is a reason that you do not know about.....Genuine Transparency -the art of decomposition..... The Super Gene- I want you to relax...... in memory of my phone and internet friend.... Gene Zeak