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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Augustine... Summa Theoligica
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on: March 07, 2010, 10:21:09 AM
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A
bit wordy for my tastes in literature, but i think he is developing the
case for God being the First Cause. If so, then he could make the case
as easily using a totally wicked man in place of the highly righteous
man.
Yet, does God "cause" evil, or does He allow and empower
beings who choose evil? If by "cause evil" we mean He desires evil to
exist as an end in itself the answer is no. If we mean He desires good
to exist which He will fashion from various influences including
evil-choosing beings, the answer is yes, obviously.
And once
again, He can not be accused of doing wrong, ever, but yet has
incorporated the temporary wrongness es of free agents into the tapestry
of His Righteousness as manifested in His final Kingdom.
Ok...
think about this..it is a sin for a man to reject the gospel and harden
his heart.... but then God hardens a mans heart? So how can it be a sin
for us and not for God ? Obviously God does not tempt a man to sin...
but He designates things so that a man will sin.And it is necessary that
man sins. If you have all of the knowledge of the universe then you
are like God... Or God is all knowing. But in creation when He made
man... He made man with the knowledge that God wanted as the limits for
man to know. So if God made man with a limit and it was not going to be
an ability to know more.... then every thing that man thinks has a limit
of the ability to know that thought as completed with the entire
universe of thought. So that man is determined by God to only think what
God wants him to think because man is unable to think independently as
God. Edwards says that thoughts are in time sequences so that God knows
the thought as foreknowledge and if God knows it as before it is
actualized then it is necessary that it exist as actualized. You see
what i am saying?
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3782
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Simple Philosophical discussion 101
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on: March 07, 2010, 10:12:37 AM
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Part
of the confusion, it seems to me, is in the use of the word "form". If
that is very clearly defined, or more accurate words are used, the
meaning would be clearer. Or not. 
We
know that God is a spirit and He does not have a form
....technically... but in order for us to discuss the difference between
God and us... we having a body and are created so that since we are
form there is separate parts.. there is a description as being described
from one sequence to another... or a succession of matter... but God is
not in parts... He is eternally present... but for our purposes in
making a distinction between God and us we say that He is a form unlike
ours... and then we have His attributes... as a form. Because we are
created with intelligence so that we can have a thought that is more
than a connection to matter.. but we have reason and understanding so
that we have a potential intelligence which is a form of our
understanding.
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3783
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance
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on: March 07, 2010, 09:06:54 AM
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It
is the "actualization of the connection" that pleases Him because He
allows our rejection of His perfect Love, but only as a temporary phase
toward the final direct connect with us through the Son. When He
becomes more real to us than our feelings, our doubts, our fears, our
circumstances, then the connection is growing strong.
This is
my other point .. in the above post i had been reading Thomas and wanted
to get that down ... its just my way of adding to my arguments. Well i
find the more i let these ideas pass through my mind the more they take
on something that i can present in a more understandable way. We grow by
communicating the gospel to one another. But my point is we are
legally clean of all of our past present and future sins... who shall
bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?..in the context of
curses... not as a defense necessarily but in real terms the apostle
Paul who persecuted the church and then after the appearance on the
Damascus rode said... i do not have the blood of any man on my hands.
That is the standard of a man who had gone to heaven... seen visions..
had things revealed to him that no other man had seen... was the most
schooled of all of the apostles and was the person of whom God gave the
leadership to bring in the mystery of the gospel... that repentance
would be preached in the name of Jesus Christ... He alone ended our
sorrow over sin and death as our personal advocate in being innocent. So
that He alone not only is our Savior but He alone is our defense. So
that when Onesimes owed monies to his former master... Paul who was the
worse of sinners told the church to put it to the apostles account... In
other words the apostle was taking the law of God very seriously... i
mean.. a former covetous man of power would bring grace to a thief. Because
Paul knew what it was to be intensely hated by men... and he understood
the feelings of alienation... rejection... scorn... treachery. All of
these things the law condemned in Gods people so that in the ot a
stranger who came into ones company was treated as a special one sent
from God. Thats how much they considered the forbidden actions of the
law to be. They were willing to expose there families to the world in
order to show the love of God by His commandments. Now then ... we
have a personal advocate who stands in our stead. When we face the
hatred of men... when we find there are people who oppose us and would
do anything bring us down we know that this was what Paul experienced.
When men hold a standard of behavior over our heads and require us to
show it as a threat to our personal name... then we have a defense ...
because ... now listen... God is a witness... that all revilers will be
put to shame... i mean... who do not know God. We are confident that the
law is our refuge because Christ came to fulfill the law on our behalf
and we know that in His name is a strong tower.....When we know Christ
we become schooled in defense. This i think is the application of
justification by faith.
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3786
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance
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on: March 06, 2010, 01:22:49 PM
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mbG:
"my confidence is that He chose me before the foundation of the world
as a proof of His eternal love.. kindness.. and faithfulness to me in
His redemptive work for me personally"
K_k: In His infinite mercy
He, and He alone, is able to redeem both individually and all that will
accept redemption, simultaneously, both intensely personally and
intensely collectively. And this is independent of what we see to be
time.
mbG: "He could have passed me up and been totally rite in
doing it. I can accept that He did not choose everyone as His freedom to
love which brings me to a complete understanding of freedom and
acceptance."
K_k: Part of our eternal gratitude will be that He
had every right to destroy us for each minor/major sin we committed,
even the unconscious ones, but chose instead to give us perfect Life as a
Love-Gift. And His Gift has to be freely available since it comes from
the perfect Heart. In like fashion, our reception of His Gift cannot
be coerced/forced/badgered/exacted/etc, since that doesn't come from
Love.
mbG: "But you are rite salvation is justification by faith alone."
K_k:
This is one area i haven't fully disclosed my thinking on. You may
well reject this explanation, and that is OK with me. We can "agree to
disagree", i hope. On the other hand, perhaps you will see some truth
in this reasoning.
Saving faith is not just passive
"head-acceptance" of an idea. It is reception of a Live Person.
Without the reception of Christ into the most inward part of our lives,
the so-called "heart", there is no salvation since the Saviour saves us
"inside out".
Yet, faith without works is dead. Why? Because
just as soon as Jesus is given the sincere invitation to come in, He
directs the willing will to make a change (or lots of changes, with some
people) immediately. He is "living His Life through us" at our
request, so to speak. And that is what saves us.
Was it the
"faith" that saved us? Yes. Was it His "work" that saved us? Yes.
The two cannot be separated really, since His work in and through us is
by His faith and is His Redemption of our sinful lives.
Was it
our own "work" that saved us? No, if we mean our self-directed,
self-motivated actions. Yes, if we mean our willing obedience to His
inner direction, in dependence on, and response to, His enlightenment,
empowerment and guidance.
So then, can we ever claim that our
obedience saved us? No. It was His Life expressing through us, with
our active/passive cooperation that demonstrated His saving grace being
applied to us. And it was only His awakening of the Spirit combined
with His molding of our desires to realize we needed Him all along that
led us to turn to Him in desperation (what has been called the "gift of
desperation").
And all this without
coercing/forcing/badgering/exacting/etc. Which is a grace that amazes
for time without end. How close are we to agreeing?
Wow...
this is a great intellectual discussion as a matter of how we are
moving along in this line of reasoning... i mean... you know your stuff
... and i respect that.. its better than discussing this and feeling
like in the communication they are on two different net works even if a
person shares the same facts as a matter of intellectual agreement. Ive
thought about this for a very long time... i am going to depart from
the typical reformed reasoning here because in my trying to convince
someone who is on the fence so to speak.. i might seem too systematic.
So i digress a little bit. First because if we apply something as a
remedy then it will translate into actuality... i mean... that all of
these doctrines are yea and amen. I do not think we can be entirely
confident in trying to hear a message.. i mean as a matter of an inward
understanding of voices.. or its the form of the idea.... that we only
define that connection in how we live by faith. I am totally engulfed in
the object making that faith the reason for it being a gift. I mean
without faith it is impossible to please God... or actualize the
connection to the reality ... whether it is the form of both the idea
and the sense orientation of the intellect or it is in the matter
itself. This is why we live in the assurance based upon the
causes that we know create the image of reality. Now this is a new
idea... i mean... that we can speak and the idea form is the intelligent
understanding. Here is what i am saying... there is a form of an idea
that is perfect as it is defined by the form of God... as a spirit and
then there is the intellectual understanding of a man and the form of
that idea. This is why the connection to the understanding that connects
us to the yea and amen of Gods decreeing a future event. Our hope of
the future is our assurance that we will see it actualized. But the
actual promise is a spoken promise... it was spoken into eternity and
speaks today. This is why the actualizing is in God and not in us. Or
its in His spoken revelation. That being the sure word. Or the
actualizing idea. This is why i do not think we can have an absolute
assurance but we can experience an assurance that rises and falls ...
that is actualized as the past turns into the future. As the basis for
our knowing in seeing that word actualized. I do not think we can
entirely define the intellegence as a matter of receiving something of a
form that gives us the definition of our intelligent form. Ok sorry
for the script .. just something i needed ... been reading some stuff
that is very heady... but i will talk about the legal necessity.
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3787
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance
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on: March 06, 2010, 11:17:12 AM
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mbG,
you seem to again be drawing a distinction, a difference, between us
that i am not seeing yet. For example, here's your concluding statement
above. "The curse is when we look at the law and conclude that
we have been close to what it requires.This is why there is only one
remedy. So we have a choice either be cursed or be loved. There is no
in between. This is why the gospel is radical... its better than we
think it is.... and on the other hand not understanding grace is worse
then we think it is." Absolute agreement. The curse is that we
deserve destruction for establishing our own infinitely small
requirements in place of God's perfect requirements, and thinking we
have met them which is "self" righteousness. There is only one remedy,
the One Who provides His perfect righteousness to those who will receive
Him. We are either cursed or loved, as you say, and yet, He loves
those who are cursed because His love is not conditional, only the
experience of His love is dependent on our reception of the Saviour. The
Gospel is radically better than we think it is, and salvation includes
the growing understanding of the grace we have been given. God so loved
the WORLD, that He gave Himself as the only means to come to Him. He
didn't say He loved only Believers, but Christ died for the sins of the
whole world, and His forgiveness, and imputation of His goodness, is
available to all who will come to Him. To not understand this is to
miss the glory of God in our attempts to define our own doctrine. Can you clarify the fine line between us a little more? Thanks. 
I
am in agreement with the above statement except that Christ
justification of us is more free in the sense that His salvation is
secure by the particular nature of His work in an individual sense. So
that my confidence is that He chose me before the foundation of the
world as a proof of His eternal love.. kindness.. and faithfulness to me
in His redemptive work for me personally ...because i am perfectly
happy to love Him because my not deserving salvation is personal to me
in knowing that He could have passed me up and been totally rite in
doing it. I can accept that He did not choose everyone as His freedom to
love which brings me to a complete understanding of freedom and
acceptance. But you are rite salvation is justification by faith alone.
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3789
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Simple Philosophical discussion 101
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on: March 06, 2010, 10:31:43 AM
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I
believe we have a limited, usually decreasing with age, ability to
superficially control our attitudes and behavior. Thus, the alcoholic
(until the final stages) can "quit" for brief periods of time. But then
pride will usually empower the idea that "I can have just one, and
control it this time". Then off to the "races" they go.
The
hostile, anger-problem guy can be given "anger management" classes and
learn to channel the anger differently. But the heart of the problem is
still in the heart.
And then there are the small gifts of Grace,
from God, in which the person thinks their "will-power" is what made a
major change in their lives. Like the person who works real hard to
quit smoking. If they succeed they are often self-righteous against
other smokers, since after all they quit so anyone can quit. What they
usually miss seeing is that the very power to stop the addiction came
from the God they may not even believe in.
So Edwards seems to be
lacking including the little anonymous gifts of ability to change which
the Lord provides as part of His greater Plan. Yes?
I
think Edwards point is and i must add in St Thomas ... that the corporal
things are the lowest forms. That being matter. And that the intellect
is that by which God created us as distinct from the other creatures
that He made ... i mean separating the creatures of instinct from this
activity that we have available to us to treat inanimate objects as
reality or the activity available to live in the reality of the
understanding of things as that by which we receive truth that
translates into matter. So that an idea of something has a form.. and my
interjection here is that focusing on matter gets in the way. We
do not fight against matter but against our understanding as a form.
Because God has given us an intellect so that we receive truth as in a
form through our physical senses as a form and not intrinsically a form
of truth in our physical senses. We are not animals who are under the
power of matter by instinct. So we need to explore this idea that we go
from the impossible to the possible which is an activity of the higher
function of the intellect ... rather than the lower form of instinct and
matter. This is very important in finding the possible in this life.
OK everyone is confused... i am beginning to apply this so its going to
take some time.
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3791
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance
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on: March 05, 2010, 12:06:26 PM
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This
is not to say that His patience and tolerance are unending. They must
end or He would not be perfect Love as He is. He must and will
eliminate all evil, all sin and all those that absolutely cling to both,
in order for the Kingdom to come in completion.
In this life He
"chastises" us supremely gently (remembering He is All-powerful, not
just a little powerful), either to bring us into His family or because
we are in the family. Yet, this "potty-training" will only hurt those
who successfully resist His pulling our attention back to Him so He can
"love on us".
Kk I do not mean to insinuate that you present
yourself before God as how i am going to describe to you in the
following statement. The law of love is simply a demand to love. The law
is that by which we are required to meet the demands of whatever it is
teaching in order to obey that law. The law does not give us a sliding
scale. It preaches to us condemnation. So that when we talk about the
law to one another and about the requirements of the law we are dealing
with a sliding scale. Which is dependent on our personal preference. I
mean if we cannot understand the nature of total obedience then we
surely cannot understand how much is required in order to meet our
expectations. It basically reduces it to a serfdom relationship. So
that if i say that you must obey the law of love then basically i am
saying that you must be perfect. Because if i present a sliding scale
then by what standard am i in compliance? So basically when i say these
things i am presenting myself as the standard... in comparison to its
total requirement. Obviously this is not going to give me any level of
acceptance because as i said the law does not show acceptance it just
says you are guilty. This i think is what we are having as the basis of
the disagreement. Now this is a terribly important principle.
Because when we are talking about these spiritual things we are talking
about tendencies to treat things in passing as a matter of personal
preference in order to argue for our particular point of view. I mean
there are some people who are just plain wrong.. in comparison to the
doctrine as a matter of being orthodox. But then there are some people
who twist truth because of the confusion of the terms. I dont want to
come off as a know it all but in memorizing the book of Psalms.. which
deals directly about our disagreement and most of the book of Romans as
well as the epistles and some of revelation ... i can explain to you
your weak point of view. First you cannot mix grace with the
law... its a cursed teaching. The law does not just declare a man guilty
but it puts a curse on the man. In using the law to defend oneself
...that is a curse in itself. Every day we wake up on this earth we
start from a self evaluation that we are totally corrupted in every
part. Thats the position of our own goodness. The curse is when we look
at the law and conclude that we have been close to what it requires.This
is why there is only one remedy. So we have a choice either be cursed
or be loved. There is no in between. This is why the gospel is
radical... its better than we think it is.... and on the other hand not
understanding grace is worse then we think it is. I am willing to take
the time to describe to you in later post exactly how this is applied or
as i apply it myself...
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3792
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Jews have cast off the law and tradition and everything they had learned?
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on: March 04, 2010, 03:50:26 PM
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The
problem is that many people can look "saved", sound "saved", act
"saved", and then burn out on the "Christian thing". Sorry, not
saved.... If they did lose it, it wouldn't have been eternal, but only
temporary. Thus, they were never really saved, they just thought they
were.
Of course, then, for the person seeking assurance,
there is no assurance. The question only changes from, "Can I lose it?"
to "Is it real?"
I believe assurance comes from the trust worthiness of God and His unchanging Word. Because God can't and wont lie, we can place our faith in our salvation upon His Word. If
God says we are forgiven and given eternal life if we believe in and
and trust in His Son and His death on the cross, then upon God's Word,
and the fact that God never lies...we are saved if we continual to trust
in Him. We have to believe God's Word. If we don't believe and trust in Christ (i.e. walk in His Word) then we are not saved. Some
people have gone from experiencing Christ and salvation (having their
sins forgiven and maybe miracles) back to not believing that Christ is
real...they have become reprobate. Although they may deny it,
Calvinists trust in predestination to be saved and unfortunately not in
directly in their faith in Christ. If a person intellectually
believes in Christ or that Jesus is the Christ but lives in continual
unconfessed sin then they are in peril of Jesus saying ...depart, I
never knew you. The key word is UN-confessed sin,,,NOT Zero sin. Paul
himself said that he did not already consider that he had attain the
resurrection; but would continually strive toward that goal. Not
actually a predestined way of thinking! We should keep that in mind when
reading Paul epistles. Except for a few possible misinterpreted
verses, the Bible seems to point to a continual struggle...one in which
God always helps believers but allows them a choice. Hence all the
warnings in the gospels and Paul. Thor 
Although
they may deny it, Calvinists trust in predestination to be saved and
unfortunately not in directly in their faith in Christ.
Can i
say then that Pelagians believe in mans faith that can fail so they dont
accept that salvation is directly through Christ?
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3793
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine
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on: March 04, 2010, 03:45:07 PM
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Reform
Teaching is somehow God is one that draws you to himself; somehow he
convicts us of the reality we come to him just as we are. Negatives are
used to motivate. All of us including our present president are
tempted to over do our words to win the argument.
God loves
sinners so much that he in person of Jesus Christ hung on a tree in the
garbage dump taking on himself the wrath of Holy and Righteous God.
Yes
he turns our negatives into positives... He works all things for the
good of those who love Him. This is why we are fed the wine and the
bread.. so that we will receive life in order to persevere through this
world. And He has given us prayers in order that we might think of our
identity in His death and resurrection. So that we might see that it is
finished and He is exalted far above all the earth as deserving to have
every thing placed under His rule. He goes from being forsaken by God
to being exalted. Now He a large number of families will turn to the
Lord and declare their allegiance ... He has down this in obtaining
redemption at the cross
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3797
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance
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on: March 04, 2010, 12:40:39 PM
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If
you remove the names mybigGod and K_k from your post immediately above,
i could have written every word. (OK, maybe with a little more of my
strange style!)
Wouldn't you agree that though He won't makes
us sinless in this life, He definitely makes us "sin less". Not cause
we get so awful good, but because we are falling more in love with Him
which is the greatest of all Commandments.
Selah. Pause and think about this.
I
look at it like this... there is nothing that is not available to me
that Christ does not have. So i dont want to try to act before Him. The
best way to come to God all the time is to live like you are. So when we
act before HIm then its no fun. He made us to enjoy Him not be overly
concerned about our weaknesses. So i look at life like this... here i am
a sinner and really dealing with some real human emotions and desires.
So here i have a weakness.. i am susceptible to things that other people
are not. So that it makes me identify with the people. If i cant become
transparent... i dont mean in making every detail of my life a matter
of the public... but reacting to things as a sinner then how am i going
to know that He loves me? anyway so that i am not all concerned and then
i dont want to be around Him cause He is mean. So i know that He
frees me to be who i am at in every thing that i experience. Whether it
is a sin... as a christian i experience it knowing that it will not gain
a hold on me... so i can look at it as something that is not a friend
but i got a little pleasure from it. While the people around me can
react in a lot of ways. The better than thou ...the total reprobate
reaction like lets do this together and then some people look and say...
ah thats just him.. but really ... i am not who i am ... but that is
not necessarily what happens as between God and me. But He is more
flexible than everyone who reacts. You see what i mean?
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3799
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance
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on: March 04, 2010, 12:15:24 PM
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When one begins to experience the unlimited riches we have in Christ what is there to envy anyone else for?
Well
some times we cant help it... i mean... its the same as lusting... you
know... i am suspicious anytime i believe there is a time or place that
makes me less susceptible to these temptations. So i acknowledge before
God that i am a real sinner who enjoys my sin. I speak this way with
people... they understand and so does God. Wow... not to attack you but
God is not a speech policemen... i look at a magazine sometimes and wish
i had this or that... and acknowledge it to others. But if it really
turns me away from returning to my joy in God then i need to go away and
pray... but theres no danger in slipping... your not going to leave the
faith. Kk i got to be honest wit ya... i love sinning... i mean its
fun... and i cant help having fun .. thats why when i sin.. i do the sin
as best as i possibly can. Wow... i just lose the battle.... but He
looks at me and i look at Him and i say to him thanks for not treating
me according to what i did... cause i would be in a heap of trouble...
then i do the same thing again... but some how He makes me love Him more
by always dealing with me because he knows i am weak and i am addicted
to it. Sometimes the sin is enough to continue in it for a week... and i
live like it before Him... and i say that the enjoyment was not as good
as the pleasure he gives me... sometime its close... but thats another
thing i cant understand about myself.. how i can slip and forget His
goodness to me... oh well it keeps me from totally falling ... i really
dont want to do it but i do it anyway.
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3800
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Repentance
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on: March 04, 2010, 12:03:28 PM
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Halleluyah, ekneville! That's it! Best short description of repentance, as i have experienced it, that i have seen.
====
What it calls to mind are those many times
as a young man sitting in the church pew,
feeling fairly sorry for my most recent sins,
trying to mentally beat myself into submission to being good,
working up as much self-loathing as i could build,
psyching up my "will-power" to become a new person,
committing myself totally to using my "will-power"
to be righteous from then on and forevermore,
never to sin again.
Until i saw the cute girl down the aisle in church
who had such a marvelous body.
Or left church and desperately had to have a cigarette.
Or got invited to a party or a bottle.
Or, fill in the blank with your favorite sin:___________.
So what i was quickly left with after my "repentance" was a sense
of complete moral failure,
of hopelessness and despair,
of the futility of trying to be good,
of the self-righteous condemnation
that all church people were terrible hypocrites.
And ultimately it seemed God's fault that i had such cravings.
How
could He make like me this and then refuse to answer my prayers to make
myself a good person? It just wasn't fair, i thought.
=====
Thus
began the foundation for extreme atheism and self-indulgence that
lasted for many years. Until i really came to the true "end of
myself". And there, right at the "end" of my life He revealed He had
been waiting patiently in line for me to get absolutely tired of running
my own life. Once i wanted Him more than anything else in life, He
showed me that is how He had always wanted me, too (and all of us). And
Jesus, especially on the Cross, is the proof.
And it just isn't fair that Jesus should give me His righteousness! It is infinitely more grace-full than "fair".
Are you now free from envy...... there Kk? I got to admit... sometimes i kind of enjoy it being so special... God knows.
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3805
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Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Universalism: Definding the unbeliever at the expense of the Sheep
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on: March 04, 2010, 08:52:25 AM
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"Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic."
OK, i'm warned. But the title caught my attention.
So,
contrary to our forum theologian, i believe God loves all of His "kids"
equally. But not all will receive eternal life. Only those who
receive Christ's unending Life have the right to live eternally, and be
called God's children.
Suppose i had a child who i knew in
advance would grow up to hate me and want nothing to do with me, and
another one who would grow to love me and want to spend all their time
with me. I could love them both as my children, but only the latter
would experience the long-term intimacy which i would desire for both.
Back
to the topic. The love of God for His kids is universal. And that
love empowers those who choose to resist all of His continued attempts
to "turn their hearts toward Him". It also empowers those who cannot
resist His loving-kindness as it is progressively revealed to them. It
is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance and to returning His
love for us.
The Lord sends rain for the saved and the lost. He
showers grace on the saved and the lost. He sent His Son to die for the
saved and the lost. And His perfect love will respect the right of any
of His kids to choose not to be with Him forever.
Remember how
Jesus wept over Jerusalem, even though its people mainly rejected Him?
He had compassion on His worst enemies. Will Our Dad do less with His
enemies? We are commanded to love our enemies, and we can only be
commanded to do what is consistent with the "nature" of God.
The
great Judgment to come will be perfectly fair, just, and merciful. And
there will be tears of compassion for the "lost". If we don't see that,
we don't yet know His righteousness. He knew/knows in advance who will
reject Him in the End, but creates them with the ability to do exactly
that, as they choose. He will not force us to love or serve Him. But
those who can be brought to willing surrender to His persuasive grace
will be one with Him forever.
I notice that the title says
"Definding", which could mean defining or defending. (or maybe a
combination of the two?) Food for thought...
Thanks Kk...
do you think that most of the evils of this world are performed on the
weaker people by Gods design? What i am asking is... is it a display of
Gods love?... i am not talking about a general ... spherical love... but
a love in a practical way that protects the helpless by punishing their
abusers. Is this an evidence of Gods love? God says ... if you see
your brother in need and you turn away from him ... how dwells the love
of God in you? This is the normal way in the world. If God loves
everyone then how can he display it if those who He loves do not act
like this? If God works the good for his children..... how can He
display it if they are being abused? The question is ... why hasnt God
ended all this suffering? Well... we go to Him to keep ourselves from
it... any other reason would be like suicide. What i am saying is that
you can accuse God of being mean at the expense of His good protection.
Independence cries equality... dependence cries help. Independence
through equality is what man accomplishes in his dominance... dependence
is totally relying on God to right the wrongs. Independence through
equality will lead to relationships that are oppressive... dependence
will lead to freedom.
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