Legalism: Any attempt to rely on self-effort
to either attain or maintain our justification before God "After
beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by
human effort?" Gal.3:3. A Definition of Legalism 1. Using the Mosaic
covenant as though it is the covenant between you and God. 2. Attempting
to be justified by one's own works. 3. Attempting to be sanctified by
one's own works 4. Suggesting that our worth or worthlessness, our
self-esteem and self-satisfaction or lack thereof, rest on our own
works. 5. Any attempt to please God judicially, or any supposition that
our sin as believers has resulted in his judicial displeasure. [Any
post-salvation attempt to maintain our judicial standing before God
through good works, covenant faithfulness, merit etc..] 6. Teaching that
we conform ourselves to our judicial standing in Christ (righteous and
perfect) by our own works. 7. Attempting to attain godliness by a
systematic change of behavior 8. Obedience that does not spring from a
renewed heart 1. As of an unbeliever who has no renewed heart 2. As of a
believer who has a renewed heart but whose righteous behavior does not
spring therefrom. 9. Any supposition that externally righteous acts have
any value on their own, even as conduct that prepares the way for
either 1. A renewed heart (preparationism as regards justification), 2.
The softening or further renewing of an already renewed heart
(preparationism as regards sanctification. Note Romans
12:2-Transformation occurs through the renewing of the mind), or 3. Any
other work of the Spirit. 10. Suggesting that faith is irrelevant in the
accomplishment of some (or all) good works. 11. Trying to be justified
by works that are created and inspired by the Holy Spirit. 12.
Attempting to gain assurance of salvation solely or primarily on the
basis of the sign of outward works - Bill Baldwin
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why should I be sorry for my sin? What does it do to God?
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on: September 16, 2009, 02:11:58 PM
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God
can run the universe by any rules he wants. If He wants to limit
Himself in some matters for some purpose, then he can. Even if God was
somehow surprised by something...so what? God is Almighty. (Almighty
better describes God than sovereign...Almighty is a Biblical word and
covers everything). What could possibly happen that an Almighty God
couldn't handle? NOTHING! Good grief humans handle unexpected stuff
everyday and things usually turn out ok...how much more an Almighty
God? God is BIGGER than you think. God can allow free will and still
exercise His Will...because He's God. Jesus said with God all things
are possible. God could run time backwards if He wanted to (and He did).
I see no problem with Almighty God allowing free will in creation and
His will being done (He did in the Garden).
If God changed in
any way then He would cease to be God. God is a being not a progression.
There are no parts in God... He always existed in the reality of the
past present and future as the same God. He cannot change into something
different than He was or that something would be different from who He
is. If God allowed free will then He is only a God of the past. At some
point He would need to change and then cease to be.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why should I be sorry for my sin? What does it do to God?
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on: September 16, 2009, 02:11:58 PM
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God
can run the universe by any rules he wants. If He wants to limit
Himself in some matters for some purpose, then he can. Even if God was
somehow surprised by something...so what? God is Almighty. (Almighty
better describes God than sovereign...Almighty is a Biblical word and
covers everything). What could possibly happen that an Almighty God
couldn't handle? NOTHING! Good grief humans handle unexpected stuff
everyday and things usually turn out ok...how much more an Almighty
God? God is BIGGER than you think. God can allow free will and still
exercise His Will...because He's God. Jesus said with God all things
are possible. God could run time backwards if He wanted to (and He did).
I see no problem with Almighty God allowing free will in creation and
His will being done (He did in the Garden).
If God changed in
any way then He would cease to be God. God is a being not a progression.
There are no parts in God... He always existed in the reality of the
past present and future as the same God. He cannot change into something
different than He was or that something would be different from who He
is. If God allowed free will then He is only a God of the past. At some
point He would need to change and then cease to be.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why should I be sorry for my sin? What does it do to God?
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on: September 15, 2009, 11:04:46 AM
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for
humans to know evil is to be lorded by it, only in the new birth and by
the power of the spirit we are now free from it's complete control over
our lives, free will is a humanistic non-biblical delusion:
Yes
it shows in the way we think in terms of our view of others in our
natural course in this world of living with unrealistic expectations
that arise from our imaginary view of our own goodness. Coupled with a
lack of judgment in exposing ourselves in our blindness and not our miss
judgment and wrong applications about our expectations. This paradigm
that i am speaking of is an image of our moral principles that are from a
miss perception of the true self. So that most of our reactions are
from an assumption that is entirely of from our own imaginations. The
cardinal rule of seeing things as they really are is to view them
through the moral principles as Christ has defined them in the true
light of His judgment. Because we do not experience a true unity of
purpose by agreeing on the stated exception, but we have unity when we
are able to judge aright this perception of reality in the consequences
of understanding the deeper realism in our perception of ourselves in
light of the reactions of others and how they affect our general
disposition. Christ was the only one who understood completely the
meaning from the evil intent in the general confusion of the motives of
men in their blindness to make these reactions into a holistic realness
in the supernatural universe of the power of bringing all things under
His subjection... including the very thoughts of men.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why should I be sorry for my sin? What does it do to God?
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on: September 13, 2009, 10:59:12 PM
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How long will you talk and keep saying nothing? Does God All-Powerful stand in the way of justice? He made your children pay for their sins.So why don't you turn to him and start living right? Then he will decide to rescue and restore you to your place of honor.Your future will be brighter by far than your past. Our ancestors were wise,so learn from them.Our own time has been short, like a fading shadow,and we know very little.But they will instruct you with great understanding. Papyrus reeds grow healthy only in a swamp,and if the water dries up,they die sooner than grass. Such is the hopeless future of all who turn from God and trust in something as frail as a spider's web--they take hold and fall because it's so flimsy.Sinful people are like plants with spreading roots and plenty of sun and water.They wrap their roots tightly around rocks. But once they are pulled up,they have no more place; their life slips away, and other plants grow there.We know God doesn't reject an innocent person or help a sinner.And so, he will make you happy and give you something to smile about.But your evil enemies will be put to shame and disappear forever. I thought this was interesting... can you guess who spoke these words?
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why should I be sorry for my sin? What does it do to God?
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on: September 13, 2009, 10:13:26 AM
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Thor, Regarding the Sin Nature of human beings,
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. "
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph
2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world,
following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at
work in the sons of disobedience--
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Rom
5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and
death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Rom
5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose
sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the
one who was to come.
ok so now you know Augustin didn't make humans sinful nature up, and here is the importance of such doctrine
Rom
5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that
one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and
the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus
Christ.
So just as Adam's sin was imputed to you and you
were dead because of it, now Jesus righteousness saves you without you
needing to do anything, now before you get all holy on me let me say
this bit. Holyness is an inalienable concequence of grace, Jesus
righteousness imputed by grace on us CAUSES us to be made holy and as
such we start to "do good" and to present ourselves as living sacrifices
to God Etc. that's what the all important word THEREFORE is written
in Romans 12. That's why Jesus Said "you will know them by their
fruits" because ONLY saved people CAN bear fruit because fruit is a
consequence of Christs righteousness being imputed on us upon the new
birth. For if non-born again people are capable of bearing fruit then
Jesus words are silly. Since that can not be then fruit is exclusive of
the born again, elect. Therefore, the born again have a different
nature than the rest, for they can and do bear fruit while the rest
can't. So I hope this clears things up.
Ruffus
welcome to the forums. The only reason that we can grow in Christ is
because of His grace. This is why when we talk in terms of imputed
righteousness it is a declaration that does not give us an inherent rite
when we stand before God to receive a reward based upon His declaration
of our innocence and thus our subsequent acts of obedience. God doesnt
call us by grace and then tell us to prove it by our own obedience. But
God calls us to ... long for.. hope.. in the grace that is to be
revealed in the future. So we have a foretaste of grace now... that is
an undeserved favor of God in the ongoing process of salvation... and we
have the grace that we will obtain our future salvation when we receive
it when we stand before Him. This is why it is so easy to take
reformed theology and force our own lower image of Christ work on our
behalf because of the present level of religious orthodoxy...in order
for us to be responsible in a way that is not pleasing to the One who
did the work on our behalf. Our only source of comfort in this world is
to live with a view that we could never obtain what we were declared to
be unless Christ gives it freely when we go to see Him. Any other gospel
is anathema to the apostle. We have been saved into a relationship
of grace so that our sins have been forgiven from the past.. in the
present and in the future. Our Father does not hold those sins against
us... nor does He treat us as our sins deserve. Since we have been saved
we have been adopted into His family so that Christ is not ashamed to
call us brothers... having obtained purification for sins and is
currently our High Priest extending His mercy to us who find the
grace... that is His favor in spite of our present struggle with sin to
help us in our time of need. This grace paradigm is focused on our
attitude about sin and not on our practice of sin. Any other disposition
is not a scriptural disposition. Now what i am going to say
next is my pet peeve because i put this kind of teaching in the cursed
pit of hell and i say that if anyone is teaching this let them be
accursed for the sake of the gospel of grace. But if someone is teaching
that God is displaying His anger toward His children in His discipline
of sin then this is from the pit of hell and it smells like smoke. The
Father knows full well every sin that will ever be committed on this
earth from ever person who ever was born and will be born from the
beginning to the end of time. It is a mystery as to how God the Father
deals with His children in this ongoing discipline. This interpretation
of the paradigm of Gods wrath and love is a matter of the amount of
times it is mentioned in the scripture and the far context that
overrides the seeming contradiction in the supposed meaning drawn from
the actual exegesis of the grammar of the verse. But it is equally true
that when a person is saved there is no... let me say it again... no
enmity between him and the Father. It is strictly a love relationship!!!
The anger of man does not bring about the righteousness of God. Our
Father was completely satisfied to in having His full wrath placed upon
His Son so that He is completely at ease in dealing with His wayward
sheep as a shepherd lovingly protect his sheep. If God is angry at His
own then He is not to be trusted in how His past work of salvation has
been accomplished. And if He is not to be trusted... or if the power of
our trust does not depend upon the general loving disposition of God
toward His own sheep then our present faith is like a house of cards
ready to fall at the first sign of trouble. God is able to keep us from
falling because salvation is in God alone!!!Stay away from that other
teaching it will destroy your faith. May i say this that the two
line theologians who display this warped view on a regular basis are no
different than the people of whom i have come across who were
constantly quoting the line from the Church of Christ that no one who
sins can enter the kingdom of God. There are not levels of holiness
preaching... there are stark contrast. 
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4339
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Forums / Politics Forum / Re: The incredible shrinking economy
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on: September 11, 2009, 05:22:56 PM
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Insiders sell like there's no tomorrow
Corporate officers and directors were buying stock when the market hit bottom. What does it say that they're selling now?
NEW YORK (Fortune) -- Can hundreds of stock-selling insiders be wrong?
The
stock market has mounted an historic rally since it hit a low in March.
The S&P 500 is up 55%, as U.S. job losses have slowed and credit
markets have stabilized.
But against that improving backdrop, one
indicator has turned distinctly bearish: Corporate officers and
directors have been selling shares at a pace last seen just before the
onset of the subprime malaise two years ago.
While a wave of
insider selling doesn't necessarily foretell a stock market downturn, it
suggests that those with the first read on business trends don't
believe current stock prices are justified by economic fundamentals.
"It's
not a very complicated story," said Charles Biderman, who runs market
research firm Trim Tabs. "Insiders know better than you and me. If
prices are too high, they sell."
Biderman, who says there were
$31 worth of insider stock sales in August for every $1 of insider buys,
isn't the only one who has taken note. Ben Silverman, director of
research at the InsiderScore.com web site that tracks trading action,
said insiders are selling at their most aggressive clip since the summer
of 2007.
Silverman said the "orgy of selling" is noteworthy
because corporate insiders were aggressive buyers of the market's spring
dip. The S&P 500 dropped as low as 666 in early March before the
recent rally took it back above 1,000.
"That was a great call,"
Silverman said. "They were buying when prices were low, so it makes
sense to look at what they're doing now that prices are higher."
Straightforward trading
In
the case of firms such as discount broker TD Ameritrade (AMTD), they
are selling with abandon. Chairman Joe Moglia has netted more than $10
million in profits from stock sales since April, by selling shares on
each of the last 106 business days, according to Securities and Exchange
Commission filings.
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4340
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine
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on: September 11, 2009, 05:01:52 PM
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...
if you know anything about the science of interpretation... is a method
used to subvert the meaning of scripture by arguing over words. Its
kind of like presenting the scriptures with a second hidden message or
playing the numbers game.The Vegas method of interpretation- a very weak
view of God.
Are you saying proof texting is not good Bible interpretation? Thor
Yes
i think we get into trouble when we go at the scriptures to support our
arguments instead of letting the text control our way of thinking. One
is a purely intellectual approach but the other is a personally
experiencing the text. The old word is meditation. ie... the proof text
ing by way of dispensationalism, two line theology, arminianism and a
lack of the understanding of forms of speech.
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4341
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom Of The Will Jonathan Edwards
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on: September 11, 2009, 04:29:51 PM
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Philosophical Necessity is really nothing
else than the FULL AND FIXED CONNECTION BETWEEN THE THINGS SIGNIFIED BY
THE SUBJECT AND PREDICATE OF A PROPOSITION, which affirms something to
be true. When there is such a connection, then the thing affirmed in the
proposition is necessary, in a philosophical sense; whether any
opposition or contrary effort be supposed, or no. When the subject and
predicate of the proposition, which affirms the existence of any thing,
either substance, quality, act, or circumstance, have a full and CERTAIN
CONNECTION, then the existence or being of that thing is said to be
necessary in a metaphysical sense. And in this sense I use the word
necessity, in the following discourse, when I endeavor to prove that
necessity is not inconsistent with liberty. The subject and
predicate of a proposition, which affirms existence of something, may
have a full, fixed, and certain connection several ways. (1.)
They may have a full and perfect connection in and of themselves;
because it may imply a contradiction, or gross absurdity, to suppose
them not connected. Thus many things are necessary in their own nature.
So the eternal existence of being generally considered, is necessary in
itself: because it would be in itself the greatest absurdity, to deny
the existence of being in general, or to say there was absolute and
universal nothing; and is as it were the sum of all contradictions; as
might be shown if this were a proper place for it. So God’s infinity and
other attributes are necessary. So it is necessary in its own nature,
that two and two should be four; and it is necessary that all right
lines drawn from the center of a circle to the circumference should be
equal. It is necessary, fit and suitable, that men should do to others,
as they would that they should do to them. So innumerable metaphysical
and mathematical truths are necessary in themselves: the subject and
predicate of the proposition which affirm them, are perfectly connected
of themselves.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why should I be sorry for my sin? What does it do to God?
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on: September 11, 2009, 12:41:48 PM
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There
is a difference in Reform theology that forces it's adherents to always
say believers are sinners. They believe that God saves some people
arbitrarily (called grace) with absolutely no basis to their faith,
repentance for sin or anything else. Even though the Bible emphasizes
repentance for sin and faith in Christ as the primary prerequisite to
salvation over and over again.
According to RT, because
believers have been saved through a predestination process, will, faith
and repentance have no basis in salvation and it is felt that those
saved must remember they were and are sinners without any merit. This is
repeated over and over again in reform churches...I know because
unfortunately attend one). I idea is that Believers must not get a big
head just because they were picked and others were not, so their sin
must be constantly waved in front of their faces to remind them to be
humble.
They believe that your Faith in Christ doesn't save you,
being arbitrarily picked saves you, and you have to irresistibly live
out the pattern that was picked for you. It's a false theology and
that's why there is no agreement on this matter.
Thor
Also
it's interesting that Adam sinned without a "sin nature". If man
doesn't need a sin nature to sin then why would his nature have to
change to make his dependents sinners? Apparently it's easy to sin no
matter what. It's true that Sin, or disobedience, came into the Cosmos
(world) through Adam (because he started it) but Genesis empathizes
death coming to all men and the Cosmos and says nothing about a sin
nature. Augustine (4th cent. AD) popularized original sin. He had been a
gnostic and may have been too influenced by his former faith (the flesh
is evil) and because his previous personal life was very promiscuous
with the ladies. Jews historically never seemed to believe in original
sin but believed man had to opposing inclinations...good and evil; and
could choose making them liable to God's judgment. That makes more
sense to me than a inherited sin nature.
Thor
i believe that Gods sovereignty has the "other... secret counsel"
paradigm that man who calls himself whatever does not consider as the
theological bend that produces a certain experience within Him. So that
the absolute truth of Gods sovereignty would be the closest real
experience that one has on this earth no matter how one thinks of sin or
righteousness. Because without that we do not really grow in stretching
like a muscle our present theological understanding . My understanding
of where you are at is that you are kind of a pawn of imperialistic
manner sitting back and judging any system of theology and claiming that
you have no system. What i am saying is that ignorance is a personal
choice and there is nothing bliss in it... even if you know the truth
and you refuse to allow it to take you beyond your level of trust. The
point being that there is only one way to God and not only is this way
defined and laid out like a path to follow... but it is that by which
the system as a means takes you beyond what you thought you could
experience even if your are given to thinking you could play in the
middle and still find that supposed freedom as a matter of non
adherence. But i find that your defense mechanism is to have
this imaginary behavioral standard that you use to buttress your
imperialistic stand backedness (my word) to any theological system. I
mean ... its easy to point to the behavior on a universal level and
say.. see here i told you not to trust in Calvinism or any other
thing... but in that appealing to in the argument you take the high
position that you are different than your opponents in how you act.
Which is the straw man.. or the carrot for the rest of us to always be
chasing. It translates into placing a guilt trip on those who you do not
agree with.
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4349
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Why should I be sorry for my sin? What does it do to God?
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on: September 08, 2009, 12:27:04 PM
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Jesus specifically came to make the law harder
not easier for us to obey. Need and example? "You shall love the Lord
your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength." Anyone do that
today? Anyone do that ever?
Dude, no offense, but that's crap. I'm just sayin'. Why the HELL would Christ come to make anything harder for us? I believe that whole new creation thing is in effect. And I hardly speak of it lightly! Look it's hard to not become "religious" about conforming to non conformity but all of this is becoming ridiculous. I'm sure this is going to sound foolish and hateful, but my God.. STOP TAKING THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT. This
isn't just directed at toadbat but at the whole damn forum. I could
argue with a wooden post and feel better about it afterward than I would
arguing with a bunch of Chrisitians. Ok, so we all agree on the
basic truth that Jesus Christ died for our sins? Right? Right. So if He
came, died for our sin, and made us righteous... WHO ARE WE TO SAY WE
ARE SINNERS? IS THE WORK OF SATAN GREATER THAN THE WORK OF CHRIST? So
take it from there! Human beings distort what this is really about. Even worse "CHRISTIANS" distort what this is really about. And I'm so sick of hearing all of this CRAP that waters down God's grace! God is LOVE. There is no bad thing that comes from Him. Get over it! Despite what you may think, GOD LOVES YOU. Get over yourselves. And
I LOVE YOU! This isn't my attempt to be big and bad, because believe me
if you met me.. I'm a chill dude. I'm just tired of us being self
righteous instead of realizing that we are righteous in Jesus Christ.
Whether we want to be or not!
Murray even
if we were perfect God is still God. If you are perfect then you will
show it by how you respond on here. I do not think too many people would
be attracted to your message. Perfect is loving.
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4350
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: WHAT THE GOSPEL MEANS TO ME
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on: September 08, 2009, 12:11:02 PM
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Hey Genno!! Havent talked to you in a while....
God
is absolutely sovereign over all things.... and every created thing is
an evidence that God is glorified for all eternity as He works out His
sovereign plan from the beginning of t ime to the end. The highest
pleasure that we can experience on this earth is God single purpose of
His being pleased to work in us to will and to do in His created order.
God is totally able... we are totally unable.
If God wanted ...
we would not sin and sorrow over sin would be easily forgotten. Sin is
what blinds us to the revealed glory and pleasure of God. This is why we
are such bad imaginative thinkers. We lower Gods glory by not exalting
and glorifying God. What ever we imagine that we can do to bring glory
to God apart from depending on God as worthy of our worship, is making
Him something that we want Him to be. God is not surprised by any sin
that we commit nor is He surprised by our small thoughts of Him and our
little faith in His goodness. Who are we kidding to think that we could
act as a representative of His as being true to Him before men , and at
the same time think that He rewards us according to our own goodness.We
cannot do one good thing without Him. WE LIVE BEFORE A GOD WHO THINKS
WELL OF US IN-SPITE OF US.
We live in the presence of an
eternal, all knowing, all compassionate, all loving, sustaining all
things by the word of His power! And because He is all of these things
He is available as He is never changing! When we approach Him in knowing
how big His is in His goodness and how much we are in need of His power
then there is no amount of extolling Him that will not be accepted.
Just because we experience joy and sorrow mixed together does not mean
that God cannot be worshiped as the expression of our fellowship with
Him. There is not enough time in the day to find in Him an eternal
satisfaction in being consumed by His love as the expression of meeting
our deepest need. We find our rest when we find it in Him.
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