4667	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Laundry List	on: July 01, 2009, 03:12:20 PM
I ve heard some things about forgiveness today and just wanted to respond...first of all forgiveness is not an answer for the counselor to help someone with their anxiety... their feelings of sorrow ... their hard hear ted tendencies etc. Divine forgiveness is free and its only for one reason .. to the Glory of Christ. If we think there is a short cut then there will never be true freedom in any individual situation. Either on the doing end or the receiving end.  Human forgiveness will never procure this kind of forgiveness.  If there are a thousand arrows in this life as a cause of anxiety.. and if anyone has had a consistent and steady prayer life you will find that the anxiety will drive you to prayer and not for reasons to feel better... because of some arrow that is piercing your side... it may have been a sharp word... or being in the middle of some slander... or it may be the arrows of the world.. who hate Christ... but Gods purposes in this life and His power is so much bigger than our experience of some sorrow over these anxieties....these things are rich fuel for passionate prayer....  This is why we do things from one motive... that is we do every thing for a purpose that is much greater than ourselves... we do it for the glory of Christ. This is the path way to true freedom... This christian experience is not about our feelings per say... its not about relieving some anxiety or finding peace for peace sake.. or focusing on a relationship in order to relieve some sorrow. When the bible talks about the bitterness that springs up in a persons life it is not talking about some hidden anxiety that we must deal with as a normal function in this world... it is talking about a season of hardness ... or a general apostasy. It is evident that we have departed in some way from the faith... and it will manifest itself in a disinterest in the means of faith over a period of time....its not talking about holding some anger or hostility toward a situation ... a normal struggle with this world. And in fact if we are not angry in some ways then we do not have a healthy fear of God.... if we are not able to express our anger about the present situation of the world... the state of the church... the ease at which people are abandoning the faith and the level of a lack of focus on Christ and His work then i wonder if we are not growing hard to the things of God. Our general disposition is not going to be all of fuzzy feelings  and united purposes in community... i do not mean the local church because there is a covenant to the WCF in the doctrines of grace. Forgiveness was earned by Christ for all eternity in all of His children and is never earned in the receiving... it is given freely by grace.. it is not given in confession... in healing relationships .. in wanting to feel peace... it is only in resting in Christ work on our behalf that free forgiveness is experienced. It is only in falling on Christ payment that we will have the rite and consistent protection from being accused by the Devil over a sin that he says is not under the work of Christ on our behalf... for forgiveness is in God and it was earned by Christ who gives it freely for His glory alone!!!
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4668  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Was Jesus Only Human While On Earth? on: July 01, 2009, 12:58:15 PM There is a parallel in the NT narrative... the four gospels and these other prophet utterances that Jesus is fully God and fully man... we cannot understand the length of the reality of either paradigm. I mean how His ability as God enabled Him to suffer that extent as a human ... they were not mixed... i mean ... the extent of His human ability in His trust to His Father as expressed in His complete dependence. He died as a man and God... He was the glory of the God on that cross.. who was present everywhere... not only in the extent of His providence but in the absolute and definitive love as God. And He was a man who suffered in the providence of the Father in a double way than any criminal who experience death by crucifixion... not even hanging upside down was compared. He had the coalescing in His understanding of His human nature with His entire family that He had prayed for in His High Priestly prayer... He was truly our brother in how He deals with us as sinners. And there is a family community as we are in Him before our Father... who is more of a reality than any thing on this earth...the only way that He could accomplish this family unity was by procuring complete purity on our behalf... He truely is not ashamed of us. Reply Quote Notify

4669  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: July 01, 2009, 12:04:14 PM Its very difficult in this life... because we struggle with enemies that we do not see... and God is always giving us life to go on in the next day... the next moment... we feel sometimes that the world and the flesh and the devil are about to pounce on us and cause us great harm... because we have pain.. the pain is not very well defined and we must trust Christ in every situation. But we are so weak for the battle.... because we are brought into a reality where we feel this weakness that is like a weight over us... its a trial that we must persevere through... but God is like the big chess player in the heavens... He is making all the moves against the devil... and the devil is using all of his authority to go against Gods anointed people.. but God always ransoms them from being taken by the enemy... and then it will come down to the last move... and God will use the little pawn to check mate the devil... now the game is going on... and just like Saul... God puts David in the cave and allows Saul to see that his life is not as important as Davids power.... but God tells David... this one is mine... I am not finished with my moves yet... but he is going to die by his own sword... because the law will condemn him in his final hour....and then I will raise you up to be kings and priest over the House of Israel. So that we are being used to check mate the devil... Let me say this... and its not entirely about us... but it is more than we think... just like its more than we can imagine of His purpose in this life for us... i am becoming more and more convinced that it is gracious to us for us to feel the weight of a trial and the weight of our sins... i do not agree that we are walking on egg shells when we feeling as if we are falling into sin....i believe after much meditation on the penitent psalms ...I think there are 7 of them... oh please... thats like trying to separate the imprecatory psalms from all of the rest of the  psalms ...uh... its in his bones.... people...that He actually deals with us through His unfailing love to become brave by our sins...this is why we do not like to practice sin because we find in the end of all of this weight that He is greater and more powerful than our own lives... but i really do believe that we have a self motive of protection that is rite... i think the enemy of our souls is in the details of how we view the self... how we understand His purposes in forgiveness and what kind of God is working this through us. I do believe that we are talking about people who think they know grace... but they do not know the grace of God. We have full confidence in the face of so much grief and our own sins to use these sins to argue for our preservation in the mist of our enemies. The head of the nail centers on our grief as experienced by our sins and not our ability to overcome our sins and with hold the opposition to our sinning from those who want to harm us. I am saying that to often in the christian community we falsely summarize that we are agents of God to help a person keep from practicing sin and we are the same as the accusers in line with the agents of Satan to attack the confidence of the sinner... may i say this this is the big deception... the number one ministry of Satan.... and then we define repentance as not having any self preservation in the conflict with the sin and the agents of the devil. I believe that the healthy ground of grace is that we are aware of the devils schemes and that we be aware of His coming to us as an angel of light. This is why the ministers of grace are walking a very thin line. And anyone who is going to deal in these matters is easily led astray to be the agents of Satan. This may be the way we find who is really a counterfeit... i mean... we are self preserving even in the worst times in our lives... because we understand that grace is a reality that is procured from all eternity and only needs to be found in a greater way. I do not believe it is wrong to consider those men who refuse to find grace as a matter of self preservation for us to have a red flag waving in our eyes... for we find fellowship in Christ ministry to us in His role in knowing us by us finding Him to be gracious when we sin. There is a mandate to compare it to others for our own spiritual well being. I dont think that goat meat is that tasty. Reply Quote Notify

4670  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Laundry List on: June 30, 2009, 02:02:15 PM Good question... the world in which we live in... is not the world that we see with our eyes. And yet what we see with our eyes is prescribing what the world is as we understand it to be in comparison . We live in the heaven lies... Our minds are on things above... how we understand our earthly dwelling... i mean this body.. the circumstances and all of the people around us is determined by how we understand who we are by what God has determined what reality is. Now then... there may be things that we comprehend as we are made in our gifts and abilities that other people will never understand and vise versa... In the mind of a christian the light has been turned on.... we begin to understand the nature of things by being filled with knowledge but our awareness of the spirit of a thing we are led to search in a world that does not keep us tied down to own desires of who we are and how we determine others to be. We are what we think in a world where others are what they think as affecting our comparing what is who we are in this world. And still we do not have the knowledge to understand that total view as God sees it in the entirety of mankind. So we find that there is a reality that is not of this world in knowing God. The big and mysterious .. the absolute and most expression of an understanding of a thing is deep and has layers upon layers of mystery.... if God is present in who we know ourselves to be and we know God not just know about God... then we are led to be consumed as our goal in knowing what reality is... this is the way that God teaches us about dwelling in the heaven lies... because everything that has a sustaining influence is receiving that sustenance by the divine flow of God. This is a world where what ever opposition seems to be expressing itself as if we see how other people know themselves to be and define the world in whatever power they express ... our expression in our understanding of the power of Gods divine working in all things ... that flow... that by our experience of this world of mystery we know things to be true that have not yet been revealed... i do not believe we can lose... my whole house was just rattled by a big thunder clap... thank you God for agreeing hehe. Reply Quote Notify

4671  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Questions on: June 30, 2009, 08:39:47 AM  Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity        between you and the woman,        and between your offspring [a] and hers;        he will crush your head,        and you will strike his heel."  16 To the woman he said,        "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;        with pain you will give birth to children.        Your desire will be for your husband,        and he will rule over you." This here is the consequences of being cursed because of sin... this is the relationship to the law where the law is a school master and there is servitude in the marriage relationship... God pronounces a curse on all the offspring in the line of the reprobate... because look at this...  4:6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."......Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. Here you have the offspring of the first marriage... and you have the same kind of pronouncement as you look down the line of Christ.... here you have mans relationship to the law... the law brings death...Just like he pronounced a curse on the reprobate in the marriage relationship .. here Cain is pushed by the condemnation of the law to desire to kill his brother.... Cain stands as the accused... and the desire was reprobate. He is saying that the law is his school master... same as in Jacob and Esau.. He hates Esau... that relationship of servitude to the law. Genesis 20:7 Now return the man's wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not return her, you may be sure that you and all yours will die." This is really clear.... look at Abraham and Sarah.. they tell the king that she is his sister... the king takes her... here is where this relationship to the promise and the law... but the reprobate are under the servitude of the law. In other words Abraham s lying is forgiven.... but its a curse for the king to treat God as if He did not exist... the fool says in his heart there is no God... they are corrupt.... so as in Cain the law is a school master to king Abimelech. This shows Gods decreeing force on the reprobate... Remove Reply Quote Notify

4672	Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism	on: June 29, 2009, 01:20:09 PM
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/The_White_Horse_Inn/ This is a very good talk on the biblical view of justification by faith. 4674  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism on: June 28, 2009, 11:06:24 PM Quote from: The Changeling on June 28, 2009, 10:01:51 PM Ah yes, the "Red Herring!" What if I get struck dead by lightning on my way to confession having just commited a mortal sin? First of all, no one falls into mortal sin, it is a diliberate act w/full knowledge and consent. God know our hearts, if we are repentant, there is such a thing as resolve to confess. If we are walking in the light as He is in the light, if we are sober minded, we can rest in the grace and mercy of our Saviour. Is that really the catholic position? I mean i can look it up if you want... I know that you hold to a grace position... i really want to encourage you.... i am not saying that just because you go to a certain church whether its presby or catholic... or baptist that they all understand grace... thanks for speaking the truth... i believe that all sin is willful... it doesnt originate from a cause that is not from our faculties... its a choice of the mind.. and its from the desires of our hearts... there is no sin that we commit that we do not desire from our hearts to commit. Reply Quote Notify 4675  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism on: June 28, 2009, 08:23:10 PM Quote from: The Changeling on June 28, 2009, 07:16:42 PM I'll check on the anathemas Jim, I know the catechism states that Protestants are our separated brethren. You saw what scripture says through your own private interpratation. Individual exegesis is encouraged by the Church to the lay people, we are just warned not to come to conclusions that are in antithesis to Church dogma. I believe the anathema your refering to is; "let him be anathema who believes in faith alone", or something close to that. Could that be the one who believes it and that's all he has? Like the one who James refers to; "faith w/out works is dead." (BTW, thanx for letting me say all I like!  ) One thing when you bring james up is that you cant hide from my question about the lightening ... i mean thats the first thing about being an example is to defend your faith and state your position clearly... i think i have to you ... ok ... so... i am still waiting. 4680  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Questions on: June 28, 2009, 01:29:59 PM Ps.. 18 20 The LORD has dealt with me according to my righteousness;        according to the cleanness of my hands he has rewarded me.  21 For I have kept the ways of the LORD;        I have not done evil by turning from my God.  22 All his laws are before me;        I have not turned away from his decrees.  23 I have been blameless before him        and have kept myself from sin.  24 The LORD has rewarded me according to my righteousness,        according to the cleanness of my hands in his sight.  25 To the faithful you show yourself faithful,        to the blameless you show yourself blameless,  26 to the pure you show yourself pure,        but to the crooked you show yourself shrewd.  27 You save the humble        but bring low those whose eyes are haughty.  28 You, O LORD, keep my lamp burning;        my God turns my darkness into light. I dont know if any here has had an opportunity to use this Psalm as a cry but i must say this is a scary psalm... If there is any Psalm where the heart beat of David is pumping in the hearts of all of His sheep it is in this psalm... I mean ... now really... is this arrogance? May it never be.... this is the supernatural world of the saint.. and the call is for anyone who does not understand this to step down from their pedestal!!! Now then i want to show you what you dont understand about what he is saying here...David is aware that there is a great gulf between the haves and the have nots... the one thing we must say that defines these two states of being... yes i said states.. one is a supernatural state and the other is a natural state... just as the divine power that flows through the body so the divine goodness is exalted in Christ flowing through an unworthy king. now then it may seem that he is saying that he is righteous by his sanctifying himself... but this is anathema to the King. Here the pure and the crooked are as opposite as the pagan and the saint... two totally different states of being... David is saying that his saintly ness is in Christ goodness that is worked through him just as Christ power is worked through him...and this is seen in the phrase  in these different states of being as the saint.. humble and the reprobate... haughty... in other words in order for us to be acceptable in how he works his righteousness in us is that we must become weak... we must cease to exist in our own moral goodness in order to be good. But the haughty are self righteous... they are like wild dogs that dwell in the city and eat up the scraps that are thrown out... and they never get enough.... he is saying that just as Gods power is flowing through him to destroy all of his enemies... Gods goodness is doubly working in him to destroy all the self righteous...wow... shall we shill y shall y about this world? if a man thinks that this is his ability to reach a status by his mortification then he will show what side he is on...
4681  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Questions on: June 28, 2009, 12:59:41 PM The Lord is the glory of the Father... who shines from the heavens and intervenes in the lives of His saints to save them from trouble... since we have a promise to find our protection from this sovereign action then we are under the compulsion and desire to feel the effects of His personal and eternal love and faithfulness in this glorious view of our Shepherd who is on High!! We are promised to not want... because we are weaned from this world... all of our desires are finding the source of life... that is that seed of life implanted in us is being weaned from the power of our desires to want. Now then where is there a place to be draw away from both the physical tension and the meta physical? is it not in this beatific vision? Now t hen how are we going to lie down in green pastures when all of the world.. not only in the direction that it is going but in the inward schemes that are a direct opposition of all that will bring us to rest in His love? We not only find that there is opposition by the mouths of men... but we find that there is an opposing reality in the unseen forces that surround us... all of these functions in our relationships with others has a spiritual power to dethrone the Lord of Glory... they go out into the air and we experience an ongoing opposition in the world.. all of this opposition is unraveled in the present power of our great Shepherd... now then we have our divine mandate to call on Him. We feast on His abundant promises... we take refuge in Him from all of our enemies.. we lie down in the spirit of glory... we sense not only a rest.. be we live in a promise that He will enact His protection on our behalf as we go from place to place... and the way we experience this paradigm is to have His divine Spirit flowing out of our hearts as the rivers flow beside us. We only know our acceptance by His name being upheld in all of His sovereign power to work in us... our confidence is not in ourselves.. we have no reflection of our worthiness except in His name to work.. it would be a stab in our confidence is we reflected our success in our own power. We come before Him as sinners who are unworthy to do one good thing and we receive from Him a protection that we do not find ourselves worthy of... this is why we are different in this battle from the world... their confidence in fighting against God and His people are in their own mouths and horses. If we are to know our Shepherd we are to find His presence to swallow up all of the reality of our ability. This is that by which we lose the tension of this worlds opposition. When we walk in this world we walk in a world of snakes... scorpions... arrows and traps... all of the good intentions that we have are not enough to protect us from these powers. God subdues us by making us able to trust Him so that we know what the boundaries are. If we are to be able to walk safely in this world we will know that we must stick close to our Shepherd even if our whole world is crying out to us to go a certain way. Even if the devil was using scripture to lure us into a pit.. we will only move as we know He enables us... Now then ... this is the greatness of our God... we do not get along in this world... we stand on the rock above this world and all of the dangers.. the strife ... and the threats... this is the vision of heaven.. how can we be so open to the threats and the strife of the world and not be able to defend ourselves... well if God is who He says He is then we stand on the victory side before the battle begins... and we may think that we are going to be subdued by the enemies of God but we grow strong as lions under the banner of His power. How do we see this with our eyes? We hear Him say that He will protect us by displaying to us the subduing of our enemies before our eyes...wow... Now then we rejoice in the God our our salvation... i mean that we not only are saved in an eternal sense... but He speaks salvation to us in the destruction of our enemies...Vengeance is mine says t he Lord ... i will repay... and yet we are required to love all man... but then we long for God to speak a new word of salvation... so that He comes in a very practical way... now then... we look and find the the Spirit of power baptizes us with power from on high... for our enjoyment is in His Spirit pouring new power... a new conversion to understanding that nothing shall conquer His sheep... we feel the electricity of His power when we are surrounded by the righteous on the day of victory!!!! We long for our God to conquer all of our enemies when we shall all stand on the day of judgment so that we will be honored by His returning on their heads what they have done to His sheep. Here in these meditations and illuminations is our reality... we live in the heaven lies... we pull down supernatural power from on high .. we live in a supernatural mind.... we hear supernatural communications... we dwell in a supernatural protection... and we are harmless sheep. This my friend is what we are infected with.. and the new blood that flows brings us to experience a renewal unto that time when all things will be renewed and we will rejoice in Him alone!!!! Remove Reply Quote Notify 4682  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Questions on: June 28, 2009, 12:28:03 PM Psalm 23 A psalm of David.  1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.  2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,        he leads me beside quiet waters,  3 he restores my soul.        He guides me in paths of righteousness        for his name's sake.  4 Even though I walk        through the valley of the shadow of death, [a]        I will fear no evil,        for you are with me;        your rod and your staff,        they comfort me.  5 You prepare a table before me        in the presence of my enemies.        You anoint my head with oil;        my cup overflows.  6 Surely goodness and love will follow me        all the days of my life,        and I will dwell in the house of the LORD        forever. Here we have the illumination of the purpose of all of the calls and understandings of the psalmist.If we look at Ps 1 we will find the encouragement to meditate and cry directly from this book... that we will come to an understanding in our own minds of the paradigms and the restoring realities that are available to us... in other words ... we are under the principle to be completely whole in the results of Ps.1 in Ps 23... which is a list that is all of the understanding in all of the rest of the psalms.. and when we learn how to see and understand this  through meditation then we will understand the personal reflection of all that God has given us to find our comfort from this world in our great Shepherd... Jesus is personally speaking to us in this illumination in this direct power to effect restoring us to our original purpose in this life. Remove Reply Quote Notify 4683  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Laundry List on: June 28, 2009, 10:55:20 AM Thanks Jeff... I am amazed at how in this society that with all of the Jesus stuff out there... i mean ... its on the air waves 24 seven and there are more churches in this country than in any time in history... and yet religion is just another form of self righteous identification. I am convinced that the system is the American form of checks and balances and all of these forms of recreation are essential to being a good moral citizen. Religion for most people are plagiarizing the moral commands and ignoring the personal relationship as defined in the simplicity of the gospel. Men are always bent on following their own ways in developing a Utopian form of checks and balances. We religious people are under the allusion that we can mirror the balance views of the system by stressing one aspect of divine truth at the expense of creating a baby that we think will tickle the ears of our fellow man. Jesus wants to breath life into these dead bones... We want to make things so difficult that we overlook the simplicity that is found in Jesus Christ... and when we look at something that He offers then our first response in this society is how can i purchase that? Some of the most subtle forms of flattery create the entrance door for us to weave our web of deceit.The gospel is set apart from any forms of an expression of our ability.The definition of Americanism is ... i can do anything if i put my mind to the task!!! Jesus comes along with t he most simple offer and then we try to make it good for everyone.If it is successful then we put a name on it and we distribute it in the name of gospel spreading. In the mean time the simplicity of the gospel has never challenged our thinking that we can do whatever we put our minds to.Now then i am going to talk about the message that eliminates the need for religion of self fulfillment.      Reply Quote Notify 4684  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism on: June 27, 2009, 11:42:42 PM I do not think its like a reward system either... i mean.. if we are good and we examine ourselves then we get a spiritual carrot... let me say this that most of the time we experience forgiveness... i mean in the matter of direct peace as a result of His eternal Spirit dwelling in the illumination of His eternal love that we are converted to a greater assurance of His work on our behalf... so that we are not even under the sorrow of the weight of our sins. I think that in light of our moods and our feelings that He seeks to teach us by our ongoing pray and longing to be delivered from not only our sin... the feeling of sorrow over our sins ... but also the trouble that comes to us by living in this world. Now then all of these different illuminations are showing us the anger toward our having to struggle with these different situations that remind us of our weakness... so all of this is laid before Him... and we try to unburden every part of the reason for our sorrow... i think this is were we hold on to some frustration...    Reply Quote Notify 4685  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism on: June 27, 2009, 10:58:57 PM Quote from: The Changeling on June 27, 2009, 10:52:34 PM I'm not aware of that being the norm among Catholics, it does happen, but I remember it full well in my time among Calvints. The answer was always to "check myself" to see if I was really saved. Now I am to examine my conscience and make a good confession. This is not a "works salvation", it is all wrought by the grace of God.  Well we believe that when we examine ourselves that we can find more than we bargain for if we are honest... so we believe that it really isnt in the examining that we know we are saved... wow... that is just like uh... ok... anyway...we believe that when we find sins that we are forgiven more the more sins. and we rejoice that he took the penalty for sin on our behalf... so that we actually have more joy by our sin when we confess our sins... and then the attitude of grace brings us into a relationship with our Father... we are drawn into eternal life.. in its greater quality by our sin... if you had that much joy... would you want Him more than your sin? of course.. grace convinces us that He is better than our lives here on earth.  On the other hand i would be really bitter if i had to struggle with my assurance... uh.. tell Him ... the number one answer to our request is for Him to prove that His love to us is eternal.  Reply Quote Notify 4686  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism on: June 27, 2009, 10:47:21 PM Quote from: The Changeling on June 27, 2009, 10:39:54 PM We have assurance that if we perservere we will be saved, wich is all you have really. Your own personal assurance is subjective and is based on the doctrines of John Calvin. There is no need for the faithful Catholic to be worried all the time that he will lose his salvation, but he is to be sober minded, knowing that his enemy is on the prowl. No really its not from a catholic brother or an arminist who throw sins in the face... its Satan himself... did you know he is the great accuser.. but i have yet to hear him personally assault me with something i am either struggling with or a sin that i have just committed...its the people who have no assurance that he uses.... so if i question my salvation... then how long is it going take to move away from his assaults? Well some people love to lay in his arms and receive great discouragement.. that s their experience in this christian life. Oh well.. the number one voice of the devil is to destroy our faith by bringing up our sins. ... actually... Jesus confronted these people and he called them a brood of vipers.  Reply Quote Notify 4687  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism on: June 27, 2009, 10:32:11 PM I think it presents problems when a christian has no real assurance of his salvation... thats a very insecure position to go through this life with all of the troubles and ... i mean ... life is so fragile.. look at Micheal Jackson... never thought that it would happen... but then i mean... if i accept something by faith then in my understanding of assurance any man except God could possibly throw rocks at me about my profession... but it its in Gods hands then i am not moved in my assurance... so we Calvinist believe that salvation is of God.... so we cant do anything to lose it... i mean we can really screw up sometimes but if its in Gods hands then whats to worry? I mean i believe in a conviction of assurance... that hope is built upon... its like the body.. no real strength without the bone structure... we are a full adult in reality at the begining we become like what we are by being built up in this assurance  as our way of growing. Reply Quote Notify 4688  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism on: June 27, 2009, 10:17:42 PM Quote from: The Changeling on June 27, 2009, 10:13:57 PM I'm not offended, just pointing out I am what I am, by the grace of God. I believe everything the Church teaches, indeed I am bound to. Your objections to the Eucharist and the doctrines concerning Mary were believed by the early reformers. Also the doctrine of eternal security was not believed before Calvin. My problem is a very practical one... and i ask all catholics this... lets say that we are outside playing a game and then we get a lightning storm.. now... you have not taken the Eucharist for the new sins about the week... what happens lets say if you get hit with the lightning and you are pronounced dead? Now if it happened to me .. it wouldnt matter where i was or if i had just committed a mortal sin.. i would still pass into the heavens. Reply Quote Notify 4689  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Roman Catholicism on: June 27, 2009, 10:05:49 PM Quote from: The Changeling on June 27, 2009, 09:58:10 PM I'm Roman Catholic, I believe Protestants to be my brothers and sisters in Christ, if you choose not to view me as your brother, so be it. I dont know who you are talking about... i never said anything about what you are saying... you know i have read what you have said ... i remember you from a while back... i would never have anything but acceptance to you... and we can set aside our differences if you want... i dont want to create a situation where you are offended if we disagree.... but if you want to talk about these disagreements i am fine with that.  I believe we can have a fundamental disagreement with one another.. i do not believe that all Catholics are pagans... have you guys accepted our protestant worship as an alternative or do you still condemn every worship accept partaking of the Eucharist?Do you accept our views on the supper? 4704  Forums / Main Forum / Re: don't have anything to live for... on: June 26, 2009, 04:56:16 PM Wow.. you guys have soo much advice.... i am going to stick up here for Carolina.. sometimes its good to be alone... just because we dont feel that we have any purpose then just work on being by your self and feeling the purpose... i mean... dont use other people to give you a thing ..in my opinion you dont want to learn to be attracted to the people who focus on incorporating ...its a Calvinist thing ...i know that even if we have a wife and ten kids ... it means absolutely nothing ... well... i mean ... maybe we dont struggle with loneliness as much... but the truth is that God says that He hems us in from around.. in other words life is not a flat line its a bunch of lines with different experiences... there is a time for everything.  When we struggle with loneliness then we have a terrible time when we are lonely. It doesnt matter if there are ten thousand people around us... its a state of mind... and even if we had the greatest connection to go to with another person... it still is what it is.... So if you are struggling then grieve a little bit about you sorrow... let the sorrowful feelings lead you to appreciate God... let the sorrow work in you.. and then no matter what part of life you are in ... you will not think you must do something to feel accepted. Grace is being able to not have those kinds of boundaries in my book. we are freeeeeee Reply Quote Notify 4705  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Tolstoy got it right on: June 26, 2009, 04:38:38 PM I agree with this guy in a perfect world... and this is a mystery as well.. but there really is a socialist method to counter balance systematic problems... i mean we no longer live in a world were you pay for what you get... you actually pay for part of what you get.... so God rites the wrongs by personal intervention.I dont think that the old reformers applications of personal responsibility look and smell the same in this modern world. My only trust worthy principle in this world is that God turns the world upside down in His secret counsel... i think this is a responsible trust. I think the individualist motif is more practical in a backwards  world. Reply Quote Notify 4706  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: how do I respond to unbelieving friend on: June 26, 2009, 04:24:30 PM amanda... any time a person accuses God of being like Hussein then they are expressing as much hatred as murder.Men are born with an intense hatred for God... and they display it in living as if He does not exist... the only hope is that they are brought to the realization that the only reason that they breath is because God is good... and the only reason they are living is because God does not treat men as they deserve... God is absolutely holy and men are absolutely foolish... even for God to allow men to spew their foolish talk in His presence is a real evidence that God is loving and gracious before He is just and demanding an accounting of like righteousness. Most of the time... men who attack the righteousness of God  are fools in Gods world. The ugliest attitude is pride and the most heinous evidence is to curse God with our lips and degrade Him with our lives.... God will not be mocked... most men who are fools are in for a very violent exit from this earth... and if they are warned then they just bring on more judgment by their attitude of arrogance and pride. God actually declares that fools store up wrath for the day of vengeance...and the bible warns us not to rebuke a fool or we will receive their violence. When we show men love we also must stand our ground in what is rite and true... we must not waver in talking about judgment...  And we must see that even tho men are given a certain time where they are able to express the most outrageous anti social attitudes about the truth of what is the cause of all things and the expression of Gods goodness in the existence of all things that our enjoyment in this kind of judgment will help us to face the most violent enemies and speak of judgment. God wants us to listen to Him before we are about to speak... you will be surprised how brave you can be... Just remember that when that man is in the fires of hell ... if he does not repent then he will remember your words of truth. Sorry it is such a difficult world...   Reply Quote Notify 4707  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: predestination on: June 26, 2009, 02:50:30 PM Quote from: THOR on June 26, 2009, 02:44:41 PM Quote from: mybigGod on June 25, 2009, 07:17:11 PM Quote from: THOR on June 25, 2009, 11:31:55 AM Quote from: Joker on June 25, 2009, 09:28:13 AM I think you two have radically different understandings of what "Justification by Faith" means, and what the Gospel is. I don't believe in appointed salvation and appointed damnation, but believe the Bible when it says I have to personally believe and trust in Jesus in order to be saved and to "work the works of God by believing in His Son". To not repent is to stonewall God. To let some wrong headed 1500s theology dictate and reinterpret clear scripture is beyond me and my own experience which better agrees with Scripture..."what must we do to be saved". Note they ask what they had to do?  Gnosticism believed that they were saved by having certain knowledge of Christ's coming and nothing they did could save them only that knowledge. Calvinism is very close to the same thing. For sure Jesus is in their belief system but not at the head of the line for salvation. ...God's choice (Grace) before Christ even died is the real reason they think they are saved not the actual personal receiving and trusting in Christ That is not the Gospel preached in the NT. Thor  Since you are saying that God does not determine our repentance .. and we must repent in order to receive salvation then how much repentance is acceptable enough to get salvation? I'm not sure what planet your coming from because Biblically that question makes no sense. I don't say God doesn't determine our repentance, the bible does. In these next 4 verses, God and Jesus are literally "commanding" that all repent before they can actually be saved and converted. Here they are: "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent. " (Acts 17:30) "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19)   "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. " (Luke 13:5) "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. " (Mark 2:17) ...else God would say: "don't worry I'll do your repenting for you" which make no sense at all.  In order for repentance to mean anything the individual must be the one who repents. God must think man can repent because he asks him to. If reform theology says man can't repent then it stands against God's very Word. Repentance is 100%, else it's not repentance. Can you think of any place in the Bible where God asks for partial repentance or puts a % salvation quota on it? Thor   Let me rephrase it since you do not understand what someone else can explain that i said... but if God does not provide the ability and the means to repent then as you have been saying that its 100 percent our repentance... so you consciously repent and turn from all of your sin? Wow... now ... i am not that gullible.  Obviously your abilities are the same as the thief that said the Christ could not provide the necessary forgiveness as He did for the other thief when hanging there on the cross he did not meet the requirements of paying back four fold what he had stolen as you say the fruits of repentance.... ok ... wow Reply Quote Notify 4708  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Laundry List on: June 26, 2009, 12:39:52 PM Here comes Adam and Eve out of the garden.. and as they are leaving there is this sign that is hanging above the path... and it says Romans 9:14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,   "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,       and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. Well if God is God then He always determines to prove the existence of His salvation by His grace... this is His rite in His willing it. I will need to say that in God searching out for Adam and Eve it was already determined in His own counsel .. His saving was already planned...  I must stop here at this time. Reply Quote Notify 4709  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Laundry List on: June 26, 2009, 11:30:34 AM I was trying to think of a good analogy here... i think we must take the progressive revelation of the skins and the leaves and dress the preacher in these different clothes.. on one end of the garden we have the preacher standing on the stage as if it were the day of pentecost dressed with the leaves ... and in order for you to get into the gathering you must pick up a single horn to place on your forehead and a spear that is at your side.. Now then ... on the other side of the garden you have the preacher dressed in the skins... and he is standing at the door welcoming all who will come in to the gathering.  They both begin to preach their sermons... now as they preach then here comes Adam an Eve out of the garden having been just been expelled. The leaves preacher begins by arguing that God was not pleased with man after giving him grace in order to overcome the temptation... and he is saying that mans effort was shared with Gods good power in order to be able resist the temptation.... but now in seeing that man could not resist God is offering grace again... but this time we must resist....man did not prove that Gods grace gave him the ability to show Gods goodness to the rest of Adams seed... but now we have a new chance to show God is good.... we have been given a horn but we must not use it... we have been give a spear but we must not use it... we are enable by the leaves to live a moral life.... and every time we try to impale someone with a horn we are showing that we have not surrendered to Gods grace... we are showing that we are just like Adam who failed to use the rite surrender in order to please God...but there is an equal temptation for man to protect himself by his goodness and the temptation to use his own weapons is too much... so that when he surrenders he experiences a hopelessness to trust Christ since there is a demand of him to show his goodness because he has Gods grace that demands that he perform... so he picks up the spear and he is bent down to protect his surrendering abilities....got to go ... but the other preacher is the true preacher..... will write later.    Reply Quote Notify 4710  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 26, 2009, 12:08:22 AM But the former translation appears to me much more suitable; according to which David declares, that he rejoices more in the favor of God alone, than earthly men rejoice when they enjoy all earthly good things, with the desire of which they are generally inflamed. He had represented them as so bent upon, and addicted to, the pursuit of worldly prosperity, as to have no great care about God; and now he adds, that their joy in the abundance and increase of their wine and corn is not so great as is his joy in a sense of the divine goodness alone. This verse contains very profitable instruction. We see how earthly men, after they have despised the grace of God, and plunged themselves over head and ears in transitory pleasures, are so far from being satisfied with them, that the very abundance of them inflames their desires the more; and thus, in the midst of their fullness, a secret uneasiness renders their minds uncomfortable. Never, therefore, shall we obtain undisturbed peace and solid joy until the favor of God shine upon us. And although the faithful also desire and seek after their worldly comforts, yet they do not pursue them with immoderate and irregular ardor; but can patiently bear to be deprived of them, provided they know themselves to be the objects of the divine care. J. Calvin Thor.. i have never seen a person saved by their own faith... if thats what you mean by personal choice then you are turning the gospel upside down... i know you and i have a fundamental disagreement and its not over what someone says with their mouths... if i am correct faith is a gift and the repentance is impossible for man to perform because repentance is one side of faith. And if Jesus was saying that all you need to do is turn away from those sins you know about and say something with your mouth then there are a lot of people who could come to you and tell you that it was not the way it happened to them. The important quality of salvation is that we acknowledge that we could not be saved... have faith... or repent on our own.. and that we came as we are... without any plea... now if a man tells me that then i will believe him more than a man giving me the finer points of his turning from his sin!!! And salvation is not done from the will of man... it is by the grace of God... so that we are enabled to begin a life of repentance... it may be that the initial salvation experience was a great part of conviction followed by a sorrow over sin and very little joy... it may be that it was very lite conviction and a lot of joy... it may be a simple believing... or it may be something that a person was raised on.. it was taught to them.. it may be that a person mimics the effects of salvation but after much searching in his adult life he receives salvation. If you are saying that there is a set way that people are saved then that is not a grace teaching. Its not by the works of righteousness that we have done but according to His mercy has He saved us... so that grace is the initial call to a man in being regenerated... a man cannot do anything on his own merit not even repent ... he must cast himself totally on Christ who works repentance by grace. If a man is taught works as a way to be saved it will be through a focus on turning from sin and very little on the grace of God. If Christ is not clearly the object of the initial salvation experience then that is reason for a person to fall into deep sorrow and be worn out as an experience of salvation. So if you can agree with me that faith is a gift and repentance is what God does before a man can produce fruits of repentance.. that is seeing the humility in his trusting in Christ... that God must destroy the old will and put a new will in the man as the central focus of biblical salvation then we can agree.  Reply Quote Notify 4719  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Tolstoy got it right on: June 24, 2009, 05:59:05 PM Quote from: beefy on June 24, 2009, 05:52:56 PM That's right, it is the same God. Old Testament means old covenant. New Testament means New Covenant. God is the same, but His covenants are not. In the New Covenant, He ditches the "eye for and eye" and "hate your enemy" doctrine and says "love your enemy" instead. If people want to follow the Old Covenant instead, then they should revert back to killing their children for disobediance. That is what the Old Covenant says to do, after all. Actually we all deserve death when Adam sinned... and the OT Israel never carried it out... i mean they couldnt even get the divorcees to the guillotine..  i mean or stoning. So there was grace as well in the ot ... and when a person stands before God to be condemned it wont even be a list of sins.. he will be condemned for his unbelief. God doesnt forgive everyone... and in the law forgiveness was determined upon confession... so if its a universal forgiveness then God is requiring us to do something that He does not even do. We are required to be ready to forgive in the context of an unbeliever ... but that is not that we have a universal attitude either... oh those liberals. Even in the reformed camp there is no agreement on this... Calvin is probably the one to trust on this.  But to make a general statement about this is to place yourself in a position where you pit one scripture against another.. after all we are rational beings. Oh check out Sproul. 4727  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 24, 2009, 02:57:16 PM i agree that we all live in different arenas in this life.. but we are not really defined by what our circumstances determine... we are defined by on central message. The message of the cross.. and thats when reality begins. As Gene has been saying t he cross is eternity meeting time and determining the relationship that everyone is going to live with God and with one another. If there is only one reality then how are we going to define experience? Isnt it going to be by that one event? The author of Hebrews says that we are connected to a relationship by agape love in the coming of Christ... who was the Son of God ... became the son over His people and was our brother after the purification of His people... Jesus made us holy enough to be called His brothers.... Now who do you think is our Father? Its Jesus s Father... He opened access not only by a single call to appear before the Father but in community.... there is a rest for the community of the people of God.. So that we are all to worship Christ as He relates to us by His single voice... and we are only made rite by His single work... so that its very narrow even tho we are in different areanas of life. Reply Quote Notify 4728  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Judgment, Discernment & Grace on: June 24, 2009, 02:30:09 PM Quote from: kylee on June 24, 2009, 02:17:13 PM Quote from: mybigGod on June 24, 2009, 01:42:19 PM Now this is a great question... God is the judge of all things.. He doesnt leave judgment in the hands of men. I mean men usually are s cued in how they judge. They think that they are totally unbiased in their judgments...  wow.. men cannot even think rite about the way they judge their own character... i mean look.. how many men are not initially self serving in their intents when there is blame to go around? God has given men a message that is completely about to judge the thoughts and the intents of a mans heart... but men want to add their political philosophy to it. Look the truth about all mankind is they stick together with those who agree with them and they love the seat of honor in how many people bring them praise... usually there is a profit involved.. the poor do not have any friends... thats why it usually is that we have one good friend....  So that men in their view of the world are rash... usually biased... political... and revengeful in their normal assessments of a situation. This is why God shortens a mans life... cause they are self serving by taking advantage of the person who does not have a strong constitution to stand up for themselves. Ok.. so you dont believe me? Heres a good example.. how many people treat the mentally challenged as better than themselves?... first of all men love the method of getting what they want by doing something better than the next guy... and if its an advantage to step in for the sick guy.. then its just too bad... cause its the more able that win the day. And then they think .. wow i have a position to judge other men by my management skills. Now then God looks down on this warped world and He declares that all mens thoughts are useless.. they dont understand that God is the judge.. that He judges whole nations... and He blesses His people by constantly disciplining them so that they will not think that they can continue to destroy the next guy for a reason that they deem good. God says that He is the only real judge and His judgment last through all generations. He says for us to kiss the Son lest He be angry and you be removed out of the way.... Oh how we have this world backwards... a world that is going to end cause of mens history of ruler ship!!!  it is very difficult to exist without judging.  it is in human nature to be constantly judging others and things...it is almost asking one to exist without an opinion. so is discernment practicing judgment with wisdom and grace?  how easy is it to do this?  Yes i agree... but did you know that God is the judge... and that He has already judged mankind based on one thing.... now the reason i want you to listen to me... i am in no way saying that we should not be discerning... but now then... Kylee... i want to teach anyone who wants to here what to think.. how to reason... because the most important discernment that we could have on this earth is to measure everything by how God would measure it... that is reality... that is who we are.. what we think in relation to this world and everyone around us. Because if we just accept that everyone knows ... i mean they have good intentions and they are trustworthy then we are not going to understand what discernment is all about. Discernment starts with training our minds to think Gods thoughts after Him... we get to know God and we will know the world by this... We dont have a natural understanding of God... thats why He says when you are in trouble then pray... why would He not offer some advice.. or go to a guru for some wisdom? Because God is not like man... man thinks God is like man but God is God... and God is not silent... He says my sheep hear my voice and they know Me. God says if you ask i  will give you wisdom.. if you seek me you will find me... in other words we can go directly to God for wisdom... Why is it so important to go to God... because we are not able to find comfort at all times by someone else... we do not really live as if there is something on this earth that will be the answer to the puzzle that may fit our needs...because we are declared rite by a decree from eternity... and it is personally applied to us in time... so that no matter where we are we have an eternal access to wisdom... and God never sleeps.. He is not preoccupied... He is always working.... and He has the answers 24 7.. May I say that in every situation God is doing something in us that He planned before we were born... even our trials and our sins? Reply Quote Notify 4729  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Judgment, Discernment & Grace on: June 24, 2009, 01:42:19 PM Now this is a great question... God is the judge of all things.. He doesnt leave judgment in the hands of men. I mean men usually are s cued in how they judge. They think that they are totally unbiased in their judgments...  wow.. men cannot even think rite about the way they judge their own character... i mean look.. how many men are not initially self serving in their intents when there is blame to go around? God has given men a message that is completely about to judge the thoughts and the intents of a mans heart... but men want to add their political philosophy to it. Look the truth about all mankind is they stick together with those who agree with them and they love the seat of honor in how many people bring them praise... usually there is a profit involved.. the poor do not have any friends... thats why it usually is that we have one good friend....  So that men in their view of the world are rash... usually biased... political... and revengeful in their normal assessments of a situation. This is why God shortens a mans life... cause they are self serving by taking advantage of the person who does not have a strong constitution to stand up for themselves. Ok.. so you dont believe me? Heres a good example.. how many people treat the mentally challenged as better than themselves?... first of all men love the method of getting what they want by doing something better than the next guy... and if its an advantage to step in for the sick guy.. then its just too bad... cause its the more able that win the day. And then they think .. wow i have a position to judge other men by my management skills. Now then God looks down on this warped world and He declares that all mens thoughts are useless.. they dont understand that God is the judge.. that He judges whole nations... and He blesses His people by constantly disciplining them so that they will not think that they can continue to destroy the next guy for a reason that they deem good. God says that He is the only real judge and His judgment last through all generations. He says for us to kiss the Son lest He be angry and you be removed out of the way.... Oh how we have this world backwards... a world that is going to end cause of mens history of ruler ship!!!  Reply Quote Notify 4730  Forums / Steve Brown Etc. / Re: Giving Grace when you are the victim (offended). on: June 24, 2009, 01:08:39 PM You know... its funny cause David did not harm the Lords anointed... he could have thrust him through in the cave... but yet ... i marvel that Sauls own son Johnathan came to David without his fathers blessing ... i mean .. a real example of bravery... and told David information that kept David safe... um... human loyalties .... wow... Davids loyal friend... now God is good in both instances... Reply Quote Notify 4731  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: It is about us... our relationships on: June 24, 2009, 12:08:00 PM Quote from: kylee on June 24, 2009, 11:06:52 AM this is so cool.  i hope you don't mind me jumping in the middle of your thread. grace is living in a world where the blame is on the lack of order and not the personal blunders of others.. that helps me tremendously in grasping what i am going through right now. is this original thought?  you should write a book or something instead of posting it in the forums with limited audience. Thanks Kylee ... i am new at this 3 or 4 yrs... but i have spent 30 yrs of silent memorization and meditation... at times i am burning with fire... its in His time... just pray for me... all  of this is as original as i can possibly be. That statement is in a nice tone in comparison to what i experience on the other side from prayer.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 4732  Forums / Break Room / Re: What is up with McDonalds? on: June 24, 2009, 11:25:58 AM I thought i saw them just a couple of yrs ago while i was dining in this restaurant coming out of the back room padding each other on the back... i mean i could have sworn that was them.... hehe Reply Quote Notify 4733  Forums / Break Room / Re: What is up with McDonalds? on: June 24, 2009, 11:01:33 AM lets get our lawn chairs and sit behind the fence in the park ... the two bullies are meeting to fight... greed and imperialism... oooooo  does anyone have some popcorn? Reply Quote Notify 4734  Forums / Break Room / Re: What is up with McDonalds? on: June 24, 2009, 10:45:17 AM Quote from: Joker on June 24, 2009, 09:57:03 AM Everybody's pinchin' those pennies these days. I'm bummed - my local Mickey-Dee's closed their McCafe.  It had a nice little outdoor veranda, and better Mocha Lattes than Starbucks.  Cheaper too. Yes...its high time since we cant get free stuff for the Gove.. to print some more of those American pay sos and buy the creeps... hehe 4740  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 23, 2009, 03:58:47 PM Ask yourself what it would look like if you had a new conversion. I mean a new conversion to a profound experience of confidence if God would do this one thing. It could be a crisis of faith... it could be a salvation of someone close to you... it could be a deliverance from a trial in which you would live at peace... not having any worries about the same things... it could be for a new understanding of His presence to surround you... now then our desires are His desires... then why do we not find that we get what we want? If we have surrendered then we are in a position to find Him with more of our heart. This i think is the purpose of our lives... He says for us to ask... and He will do more than we could ever ask or think... He wants to be put to the test... not in a way were He is required to do something we want... but He may see the desire and know how confused we are by it ... but He may change the way He answers it but He will bring something that is perfect in that answer!!! Why do we seek Him if what we received in the past is all there is? Isnt it faith for us to use our imagination about what is the best possible relief in this world and believe that He is going to answer? If God is all loving... and He is faithful.. and He is good then we have an object who is required to treat us as if He enabled us to be good by who He is... and we have a God who can perform anything just by the word of His mouth... Thats His encouragement for us to seek Him with all of our hearts... 4742  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 23, 2009, 11:58:06 AM Psalm 138 Of David. 1 I will praise you, O LORD, with all my heart; before the "gods" I will sing your praise. 2 I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word. 3 When I called, you answered me; you made me bold and stouthearted. 4 May all the kings of the earth praise you, O LORD, when they hear the words of your mouth. 5 May they sing of the ways of the LORD, for the glory of the LORD is great. 6 Though the LORD is on high, he looks upon the lowly, but the proud he knows from afar. 7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, you preserve my life; you stretch out your hand against the anger of my foes, with your right hand you save me. 8 The LORD will fulfill his purpose for me; your love, O LORD, endures forever— do not abandon the works of your hands. Now this is an interesting Psa. God has made us kings and priest of the Most High. This is a sister of Psalm 9... i mean it starts out with the same words and it has that flavor of Gods direct intervention in the salvation of Israel.. its the kings confidence as he is viewing the power of God as the great destroyer from heaven... the rite hand of God is that by which He enacts His direct intervention.... now the funny thing is that His hand is stretched out against the proud..uh... now how does it seem that David is not arrogant here... bold and stout heart ed? Now heres the deceptive description of humility as defined by the great King. For some reason God has declared His grace through a kind of parable....what i am saying is that we think of the humble ones as described in the scripture as those who have been made righteous by salvation... i mean ... there is this desire in all men to want to share in this humility. Now then this is why there is false religion...if i told you that the view from scripture was that the humble were those marked by the king as being in Gods army and the proud with the reprobate... then you would say... but i know a lot of reprobate men who do humble acts and i know a lot of Gods armies that are very arrogant. I think that God does this so that we will not think that we can figure Him out. In other words its just like the NT people who come before the Lord and they tell Him all of the good deeds... in other words they have never really been saved in the first place... i mean we know that the enemies of God are reprobate... but then there are those who for some reason play on this parable... they are found out by there duplicity in the judgment of who are the humble and who are the proud. God declares who the humble are by gracing them with a view that humility is a gift of God and there for that go i. And so there is this mysterious confidence that is brought about by this new understanding of the undeserved and lack of confidence in our own methods and our own believing. I mean that the method of victory... the way to destroy Satans spiritual kingdom is by preaching this distinct difference based upon the decree of God... the confidence is in this undeserved paradigm. Reply Quote Notify 4743  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 23, 2009, 10:47:53 AM Kylee you have such interesting stories to tell... i want to encourage you.... i mean... even if you thought that you could change and even if you thought a truth could be so real in your life .... when you look back on all of the relationships as you grow... ask yourself... If i was taught such a false view of the gospel and i sought to change... but in reacting to that terrible lack of love i made a lot of mistakes... but Gods love was there to keep me from denying Him... and now when i look back..all of the miss understandings and reactions to things were God teaching me that He is going to show me His love in spite of my being human.... i am free even if i never loved another person... God still loves me... even if i had regrets... these mean nothing to me... God accepts me warts and all.... i want to encourage you to know Him like that... He has given us His Holy Spirit and the Spirit knows how to work in us. ... the Spirit does greater things than we could ever do... He just needs a free vessel...the Fathers acceptance is His love because we dont love. I hope you understand His grace... when the sorrow comes. 4745  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 22, 2009, 07:05:43 PM Quote from: kylee on June 22, 2009, 05:44:32 PM Quote from: mybigGod on June 22, 2009, 02:25:45 PM Thanks.. and i can see that you are sincere... but believe it or not our sincerity doesnt impress God... first because nothing surprises Him about us. i don't want to impress God...i just want to love him back.  i know it is a little thing to try in light of the cross but Jesus did say to love God above all and my neighbor as myself. just picture our attempts as a  little girl making a card with a crayon drawing of a stick figure and a heart on a folded piece of paper, and handing it to God and saying i love you back.  Thats such a cute story there....you may be surprised that God doesnt demand anything in return as a way to express the gauge of our proving that we are obedient.... i mean.. if God were asking us to show a like love for Him as proof then why would we need Him?  We could go along with God by comparing our love with His love in reducing His love.... If He saved us for us to give Him something in return as proof that He is the Savior then we would always be focused on our part. You know... as an expression of my relationship with Him my first response is to exalt Him... i think John the Baptist found this secret as well ... when John said i must decrease so that He can increase.... and Paul said that He had to come to a point where his view of himself in dieing to himself was that he considered himself no longer living... or he died to himself that Christ would live.... David said.. How can i repay the Lord for what He has done for me?... I will lift up the cup of salvation and call on the name of the Lord... and then the proof as he would do according to Gods will for him was expressed in his trust in the Lords name... Gods love is seen when we do not show that we love Him.... this is why when we exalt His salvation then our relationship is not focused on our changing. Now this is what is different between one who knows Jesus and the reprobate.... The confession states that we glorify God by enjoying Him forever... we enjoy God when we focus on His love for us and not our love for Him... every time we look at ourselves we face an uphill battle... cause we are saying look at me... i am the Lords example of goodness and love... then someone comes along and says... yes but the other day i saw you get angry and your love was not very christian... then you are going to respond.. your rite i got to do better. Now this life that you describe is very miserable. If we want to know what we have been given we must not think that we can produce enough love in order to be assured that we are a recipient of His promises.You know that all of His promises are depended on His love alone? Do you know that we can have assurance of forgiveness, peace, comfort, a new hope, a confidence that is not of this world... by focusing on God alone? We do not even need to return what He has every rite for us to show forth our appreciation. He says that He alone will take care of our appreciating Him in His love. When we learn that God loves us first... then we will live in the confidence that in praising Him we will be led into calling on Him so that the only requirement for His children to have assurance that they know Him is by basking in His love for them... and this is expressed as those obey Him... we have done what He requires... because our desires come from His love for us... but those who do not enjoy the grace of God cannot say that they obey Him even tho they may display more works than us.... when we lift up the cup of salvation we proclaim that He loves us as the expression of our being represented by Him. Wow... its so easy to enjoy Him that we forget. Now then... i can show you this principle in the text that seem to say something different as our giving Him in return. Ok you can go along with the works program... i know .. i did it until the illumination of the text that came alive melted my heart... so ... look... pride is express in i can.... ok do what you want... but when you get so warn out then come and read what i am going to write... i will encourage you... ok?   4747  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 22, 2009, 02:25:45 PM Thanks.. and i can see that you are sincere... but believe it or not our sincerity doesnt impress God... first because nothing surprises Him about us. He knows our thoughts from the beginning of our lives to the last day we will be on this earth. God is not surprised when we do not act according to His requirement... He dosent expect us to act that way... He doesnt change because we fail. If He is going to produce something in us its going to be because He judges the thoughts and the intents of our hearts... what i am saying is that He is the best Father that we could ever have... His love for us never changes. When the bible presents our Father to us it is in the understanding that He has already taken care of our sins... or you could say our slip ups or our falling in some way. He did this by placing all of our sins.. all of those things that we consider grievous to God and to those around us. When He placed all of these sins... past present and future... He declared to us that He loves us because He has been satisfied to see us as not having any sins ... He looks at us as if we do not sin. His broken heart was satisfied by His Son... now we are taught to deal with our own guilt before Him in complete freedom... He actually has declared us not guilty and He also has placed the punishment of our sins on His Son... now we are no longer slaves to the positive requirements of the law... we do not find our comfort on how we look to Him by our behavior... now we accept the fact that He does not treat us as our sins deserve... because the Son took the punishment of our sins away... in other words our Father treats us as if Jesus is our brother!!!!Get that... now listen to me... when we sin Jesus says look... Kylee is my brother.. He is as holy as I am... cause i am no longer ashamed of him... we are all sons in our Fathers house!!! Now instead of Gods heart being crushed by us... He deals with us through another way... He looks at us as sons and He examines us as our personal physician.... in other words He doesnt even react when we sin... He is making us mature on His Fatherly time table. God doesnt say to His children... oh... i am so ashamed of you... here is some more guilt. He says... i know you failed ... i took care of that in my Son.... i have removed your sins from you as far as the east is from the west... my love for you will never... ever change!!!!!!! 4748  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The BOV, alive and well? on: June 22, 2009, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: kylee on June 22, 2009, 01:52:07 PM Quote from: mybigGod on June 22, 2009, 12:57:10 PM Quote from: kylee on June 22, 2009, 12:20:48 PM Quote from: mybigGod on June 22, 2009, 12:03:39 PM i dont know any human being that practices as if at some point he would be either close to scandal or he is in some parts of his life a hypocrite ? you lost me. Read my last post in Romans and the flesh monster... about sin. thanks...i read your post and left a response there.  i tend to not focus on sin because i know that already, i am a horrid sinner.  i am reading OT again and focusing on hope and how to not break God's heart. Thanks.. and i can see that you are sincere... but believe it or not our sincerity doesnt impress God... first because nothing surprises Him about us. He knows our thoughts from the beginning of our lives to the last day we will be on this earth. God is not surprised when we do not act according to His requirement... He dosent expect us to act that way... He doesnt change because we fail. If He is going to produce something in us its going to be because He judges the thoughts and the intents of our hearts... what i am saying is that He is the best Father that we could ever have... His love for us never changes. When the bible presents our Father to us it is in the understanding that He has already taken care of our sins... or you could say our slip ups or our falling in some way. He did this by placing all of our sins.. all of those things that we consider grievous to God and to those around us. When He placed all of these sins... past present and future... He declared to us that He loves us because He has been satisfied to see us as not having any sins ... He looks at us as if we do not sin. His broken heart was satisfied by His Son... now we are taught to deal with our own guilt before Him in complete freedom... He actually has declared us not guilty and He also has placed the punishment of our sins on His Son... now we are no longer slaves to the positive requirements of the law... we do not find our comfort on how we look to Him by our behavior... now we accept the fact that He does not treat us as our sins deserve... because the Son took the punishment of our sins away... in other words our Father treats us as if Jesus is our brother!!!!Get that... now listen to me... when we sin Jesus says look... Kylee is my brother.. He is as holy as I am... cause i am no longer ashamed of him... we are all sons in our Fathers house!!! Now instead of Gods heart being crushed by us... He deals with us through another way... He looks at us as sons and He examines us as our personal physician.... in other words He doesnt even react when we sin... He is making us mature on His Fatherly time table. God doesnt say to His children... oh... i am so ashamed of you... here is some more guilt. He says... i know you failed ... i took care of that in my Son.... i have removed your sins from you as far as the east is from the west... my love for you will never... ever change!!!!!!! 4749  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Satan knows what we think? on: June 22, 2009, 01:50:30 PM Satan cannot read minds... He is not omniscient... but He can do things to us by our appearance.  And Satan is just one person... who works at the level of the high places... maybe world leaders or maybe spiritual giants... but there are also fallen angels and demons. All of the spiritual beings are under the sovereign will of God... they cannot touch a believer without Gods permission.  And so we do not fight against flesh and blood but against spiritual forces in the heaven lies. This is sort of indirect i mean if we fight against the world .. the flesh and the devil then what is spiritual as a force is personal to us in the world and the flesh... with the direct influence of spiritual forces in the heaven lies... its like Satan already has the world going in His direction...thats why we have the great accuser as our personal struggle. He has his doctrine. He is the father of all of those who are still in their sins. They do exactly what he has taught them and what they are in an essence programed to do by their good deeds or their evil deeds. The world is still doing it from the motive in which Satan runs the world. If there is any thing on a big scale in which the world experiences a catastrophe or a big event... its not originated from Satan... God decrees whatsoever comes to pass .. Satan is His pawn in bringing destruction. And in this sense Satan gets no glory for exercising that kind of power.But if there is a struggle in a believer in which it is bringing on weakness then there is a sense in which Satan or his minions could be creating this struggle. Every struggle is defined by our understanding and the level that we have grown into. I think we display the level of confidence in His grace as the buttress of our struggle with spiritual forces.    Reply Quote Notify 4750  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 22, 2009, 01:29:04 PM I think the apostle designated the struggle to not be of flesh and blood... the cause of our struggles is always spiritual ... that is sin... the world ... flesh ...and the devil... the flesh is the spiritual metonymy of the sinful nature with the body. Now in this sense the enemy of our minds is not only sin as if Satan were the cause ... but it is the motive in the attack that is as if the Devil were the cause. Reply Quote Notify 4751  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The BOV, alive and well? on: June 22, 2009, 12:57:10 PM Quote from: kylee on June 22, 2009, 12:20:48 PM Quote from: mybigGod on June 22, 2009, 12:03:39 PM i dont know any human being that practices as if at some point he would be either close to scandal or he is in some parts of his life a hypocrite ? you lost me. Read my last post in Romans and the flesh monster... about sin. Reply Quote Notify 4752  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 22, 2009, 12:37:28 PM i have been thinking about this subject for a couple of weeks... cause i have been listening to hours of OT cd... Sin is like almost in every verse. There are so many things that i want to write about on this subject because evil is not just define in a corrupted act... but it is pride in a mans heart... for pride is as the sin of witch craft. But to start out i was thinking about the worst individual that was portrayed in the scriptures and what their particular sin produced in history... immediately Judas came to my mind... after all Judas betrayed the God of the universe... and for a small price.... I mean if you could display the most heartless act it would be to act as if you were one of the twelve disciples and all the time sneak around and steal from the offerings and then sell the leader out for thirty pieces of silver... thats a real weasel. But then it dawned on me that Judas actually helped bring salvation to many men... i mean... the narrative of Judas to the one who reads ... that is we are given more of a complete understanding of what was not reveal to the disciples while Judas was doing the secret sins... cause the disciples were confounded when Jesus at the last supper pointed out that one of the twelve was the betrayer.. and the disciples did not know who it was. Then a light came on in my head and the idea really startled me... think about the most perfect people in the world... i mean in a real upright and godly example... they did not even know what sin was!!! They enjoyed the most pure fellowship with God as representatives of all of the people who would ever live on this earth. They were the examples of how to live a godly life. Now then think about what would appear to be the smallest sin... i mean it wasnt done in malice to other men... it wasnt one of those deadly sins that we would consider the Hitler kind... and it wasnt adultery... fornication... murder... etc... it was eating something that God said was forbidden. It was in our understanding of sin and how we would measure sin by our sin a very small one. So now you have the greatest examples this world has ever know.. the marriage of all marriages... and you have the smallest sin in terms of comparing by looking back.. and look what happened because of it? God had to destroy all of mankind except eight people. My point is that one small sin in Gods program is as bad as the most heinous sin.. and in terms of measuring the consequences the smaller one brought more destruction than the most heinous ones!!!!! Now then you see why God says that pride is like the sin of witch craft. My point is that you can take the position that there is a man who is able to set the ultimate example of true righteousness and compare it to the OT saints who fell far short of that standard.. and it still doesnt measure up to Adam and Eve. Does nt that speak volumes about what God thinks of mans glory in His work of redemption? Reply Quote Notify 4753  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The BOV, alive and well? on: June 22, 2009, 12:03:39 PM They must be from some where in texas seminary.. hehe...  i dont know any human being that practices as if at some point he would be either close to scandal or he is in some parts of his life a hypocrite.. unless he is very religious in the country club monastery.  Reply Quote Notify 4754  Forums / Main Forum / Re: What Happened? on: June 22, 2009, 11:58:47 AM You got to click the little plus sign on the rite first... Reply Quote Notify 4755  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: June 21, 2009, 07:33:10 PM Now the Spirit s work on the heart by the word has a sense pleasure... and if it is from the reality of finding comfort away from this world then these moments in time... these small powerful infusions of the deep and profound joys of times past that have broken into the normal workings and concentration of the mind even 20 yrs later are forming a new energy for a new task. Its not just the idea of a word from the illumination but its sometimes the former pleasure of the illumination that is the reminder... The spiritual desire is mixed with a romantic notion of a season... maybe from a spring time experience on the heart.. and then there is the winter experience of Christmas or some other formal function in an institutional sense.... but with this meditation and the former illumination that brought the deep rejoicing of the heart is breaking in at the summer months... a sweet reminder of the winter illumination.  Now then we build on one precept to another... and in this comes a timeless power to function beyond the normal reality of life. It is the hidden life of Christ... the reward for such deep illuminations that have made a deep cut into the energy that effects us in this world.