Quote from: Chris Bechtloff on January 29, 2012, 12:59:29 AM Quote from: mybigGod on January 26, 2012, 01:35:39 PM You got to understand something about Reagan. He was a conservative but he gave away a lot of power to the congress to get those taxs cuts. Basically he increased the revenues by a ridiculous amount but the congress spent it as it was coming in. Newt was a conservative who wanted it to be really conservative. Another thing... Reagan was a democrat who changed to the republican party. To say that Newt could not fundamentally change his way of doing his conservatism since Reagan is the same thing as saying that Reagan could not change his positions. lol   By that logic why not just vote for Obama. Maybe this time it'll be different. In my opinion we are too deep in the transference of wealth to change the present course. I do not see any one who has the bravery to change this course. I would try to identify with the average citizen as the major way to get elected. Its gotten to the point were people are looking for Robin Hood. I do not see any reason in this two class setting to create wealth in reversing this trend. The political system and wall street are doing just fine. What is the motive to return the monies to the average citizen of this country? There is no real movement to have this kind of repentance.

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1667  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Sola Scriptura Chapter 7 & 8.... J. Calvin on: January 28, 2012, 11:41:00 AM 1. In vain were the authority of Scripture fortified by argument, or supported by the consent of the Church, or confirmed by any other helps, if unaccompanied by an assurance higher and stronger than human Judgment can give. Till this better foundation has been laid, the authority of Scripture remains in suspense. On the other hand, when recognising its exemption from the common rule, we receive it reverently, and according to its dignity, those proofs which were not so strong as to produce and rivet a full conviction in our minds, become most appropriate helps. For it is wonderful how much we are confirmed in our belief, when we more attentively consider how admirably the system of divine wisdom contained in it is arranged— how perfectly free the doctrine is from every thing that savours of earth—how beautifully it harmonises in all its parts—and how rich it is in all the other qualities which give an air of majesty to composition. Our hearts are still more firmly assured when we reflect that our admiration is elicited more by the dignity of the matter than by the graces of style. For it was not without an admirable arrangement of Providence, that the sublime mysteries of the kingdom of heaven have for the greater part been delivered with a contemptible meanness of words. Had they been adorned with a more splendid eloquence, the wicked might have cavilled, and alleged that this constituted all their force. But now, when an unpolished simplicity, almost bordering on rudeness, makes a deeper impression than the loftiest flights of oratory, what does it indicate if not that the Holy Scriptures are too mighty in the power of truth to need the rhetorician’s art? Hence there was good ground for the Apostle’s declaration, that the faith of the Corinthians was founded not on “the wisdom of men,” but on “the power of God,” (1 Cor. 2:5), this speech and preaching among them having been “not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,” (1 Cor. 2:5). For the truth is vindicated in opposition to every doubt, when, unsupported by foreign aid, it has its sole sufficiency in itself. How peculiarly this property belongs to Scripture appears from this, that no human writings, however skilfully composed, are at all capable of affecting us in a similar way. Read Demosthenes or Cicero, read Plato, Aristotle, or any other of that class: you will, I admit, feel wonderfully allured, pleased, moved, enchanted; but turn from them to the reading of the Sacred Volume, and whether you will or not, it will so affect you, so pierce your heart, so work its way into your very marrow, that, in comparison of the impression so produced, that of orators and philosophers will almost disappear; making it manifest that in the Sacred Volume there is a truth divine, a something which makes it immeasurably superior to all the gifts and graces attainable by man. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1668  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: OF THE WORK OF THE HOLY GHOST IN OUR SALVATION... Thomas Goodwin on: January 28, 2012, 11:31:14 AM Secondly; When thou didst find (being come to this fountain) that the well was deep, and thou hadst not wherewith to draw; and while thou wert but looking down into it, with a longing eye after it; but couldst not reach into it, to wash thyself in it; but layest as that poor impotent man did at the pool, utterly without strength (as John v.) to have stepped in: it was then the Holy Ghost sprinkled of it upon thy heart, and caused thine iniquity to pass away (1 Pet. i. 2); 'Through sanctification of the Spirit, and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.' The blood indeed is the blood of Jesus, but the sprinkling (in that place) is attributed to the Spirit, as well as obedience. It was Christ shed that blood (it is therefore there called the blood of Jesus Christ), but it is the Spirit that sprinkleth it, and he sprinkleth it with both hands, on thy heart, to wash away thy spots; and therefore in ver. 22 they are said to have 'purified their souls in obeying the truth, through the Spirit:' which is spoken of the obedience of faith for justification, as well as sanctification;  as the parallel words of the same apostle, in Acts xv. 8, 9, compared, shew: 'God giving unto them the Holy Ghost, even as he did to us, and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.' And in 1 Cor. vi. 11, justification as well as sanctification is attributed to the Spirit: 'But ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.' 'But ye are washed,' that is the general; 'but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified ' (two distinct benefits), 'justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.' Both of these are by both Christ and the Spirit; as justification is in the name of the Lord Jesus, so is sanctification too; and by the like reason they were both justified ' by the Spirit of our God.' It is Jesus Christ's name affords the merit and virtue for both, but the Spirit is the applier of them and all other blessings. Thirdly; And when thou hast been brought to close with Christ for justification and righteousness, who was it brought thee to the Father to be justified by him also (' who justifies the ungodly,' Rom. iv. 5), and who gave thee access to him, when thou stoodest trembling, not daring to approach to a consuming fire, and everlasting burnings? It is 'through Christ we have access' (manuduction) 'by one Spirit unto the Father,' Eph. ii. 18. It is both through Christ, and by the Spirit, who leads us, as well as Christ. And indeed, Christ leads us to the Father (as it were) with one hand, and the Holy Ghost by the other. Yea, it was this Spirit that taught thee to call God Father (Rom. viii. 15, Gal. iv. 6), and therewith to seek adoption from him. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1669  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: A Few Sighs from Hell;JOHN BUNYAN on: January 28, 2012, 11:25:23 AM Mark, he doth not say it is so that men by chance may die; which might beget, in the hearts of the ungodly especially, some hope to escape the bitterness of it. But he saith it is a thing most certain, it is appointed; mark, 'it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.' God hath decreed it, that since men have fallen from that happy estate that God at the first did set them in, they shall die (Rom 6:23). Now when it is said the beggar died and the rich man died, part of the meaning is they ceased to be any more in this world; I say partly the meaning, but not altogether. Though it be altogether the meaning when some of the creatures die, yet it is but in part the meaning when it is said that men, women, or children die; for there is to them something else to be said, more than barely agoing out of the world. For if when unregenerate men and women die there were an end of them, not only in this world but also in the world to come, they would be happy over they will be now, for when ungodly men and women die there is that to come after death that will be very terrible to them, namely, to be carried by the angels of darkness from their death-beds to hell, there to be reserved to the judgment of the great day, when both body and soul shall meet and be united together again, and made capable to undergo the uttermost vengeance of the Almighty to all eternity. This is that, I say, which doth follow a man that is not born again, after death, as is clear from that in 1 Peter 3:18, 19, where, before speaking of Christ being raised again, by the power of his eternal Spirit, he saith, By which, that is, by that Spirit, 'he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.' But what is the meaning of this? Why, thus much, that those souls who were once alive in the world in the time or days in which Noah lived, being disobedient in their times to the calls of God by his Spirit in Noah, for so I understand it, was, according to that which was foretold by that preacher, deprived of life and overcome by the flood, and are now in prison. Mark, he preached to the spirits in prison; he doth not say, who were in prison, but to them in, that is, now in prison, under chains of darkness, reserved, or kept there in that prison, in which now they are, ready, like villains in the jail, to be brought before the judgment-seat of Christ at the great day. But of this I shall speak further by and by. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1670  Forums / Main Forum / Re: What is "Moderation" on: January 28, 2012, 10:28:04 AM Let me put this in the context of the curse. We have this response to pain. We naturally do not like to experience any kind of pain. So we are given an good kind of response from God. God has given us anger as a legitimate response to pain. Whether pain comes from sin or not it still has abusive effects to us. Remember this that as a believer God is not focused on our sin and the pain we experience from indwelling sin but He is focused on us. We have a terrible time distinguishing exactly how God distinguishes between pain as it is abusive and the effects of sin. A lot of people think that God is a person whos will is like a button on the pain machine. They like to be inflicted with pain so they will not feel a loss of control. Whenever we have a lot of pain we begin to generalize things and mix up things in order to avoid our natural response of anger toward what we are experiencing. We begin to avoid God because we have not been honest. This is why we do not avoid abusive people. Most people who experience a lot of pain just assume that the remedy is not in the personal battle with their own anger. People will spend most of their lives in religious activities avoiding their own reaction to pain. They will think evil of Gods gift of their own reaction to pain. lol This is why we do not fool around with how God enters our world and responds to us according to our natural weakness and desire. Because we want to respond naturally and with legitimate gifts of God and not what will give us relief and cause us to withdraw from God. We need to see that our own anger that God has given us as a response to pain is Gods gift to us as He gives us confidence that our response is not blame worthy. We are real sinners who are weak and lack the foresight to deal with our anger. But God as He loves us knows us better than we know ourselves and cannot be surprised by our anger as we react to our pain. He wants us to be honest and transparent before Him. God in His eternal love is overlooking our sins and is genuinely looking at us. In looking at us He is able to take our anger as we experience pain. Its not Him who needs to know but its we who need to be transparent. Dont hold onto your anger .     Reply Quote Notify

1671  Forums / Main Forum / Re: What is "Moderation" on: January 28, 2012, 09:55:49 AM An obsession is anything we imagine that we are that creates a denial of His value. We can be obsessed with the fear of His retaliation. We can be obsessed by the way we think that is not biblical. We can be our own idol first and then we will not find it hard to attach ourselves to the value of things over Him. I just do not see how we in some way do not partake in idol worship. I believe that our own evil natures are sort of obsessed within us. And our renewed natures cannot be obsessed. Now think of this we are not longer defined by our old ways. Yet that obsession to feel comfortable as we are reminded by sinners and people who have not experienced the renewal effects have bowed to the god of pragmatism have that communication of obsession that infects us. People do not want to look at sin as an infectious disease because that kind of freedom is dangerous. In this sense people never feel comfortable in their own skin. Let me give you a little psychology of the apostles argument in rom 7. Here the apostle readily acknowledges that he cannot avoid giving into sin. He feels the sting of death and sin. But this is interesting. The apostle seeks to make that sin a foreign object! Now this is interesting ..instead of the apostle cringing in fear of the repercussions of his sin he deflects his responsibility because of what dwells in him that is pure. A lot of people think that the new man has divided the person into halves. On the one hand we have the bad dog and the other hand we have the good dog. Its interesting that these people love to be the deciding factor in this battle. Why would people grow in their obsession to their feeding one dog or the other? Because they do not reason as the apostle here. The apostle is sort of presenting the argument that this sin in him is a contained disease but he does not experience that sin as it is contained. Where does the apostle go? You know how this works out in your own experience . Here you are in the private moments and your sin is stinging you on the inside. Your guilt is condemning you. You are a man who is experience the obsession of sin. Its causing you to retreat into anxiety. Your starting to sweat. Your spiraling down into personal blame and anxiety. What level you live in is how bad God will respond so that you know this level is not acceptable to HIm. You then obsess about how bad God is going to respond to your sin. All of this begins to be part of the way you read the bible. Every time you come to a command or a warning then you retreat back into this anxiety and fear. You see evil in us has a real infected sore that causes us to see things in scripture that do not apply to us as we apply it. Some people never get to what the apostle says in rom 8 1. They live in the obsession of their own working principles. But we know that unless God is a God of all grace then we will never know love. We will never be really thankful and find our true identity. Our faithless obsession will continually plague us all of our lives. How can the apostle say that what he does not want to do he does and what he wants to do he does not do ...and still rejoice and be thankful? How can he avoid the obsession of his own disease? He knows that what He has dwelling in Him that is Christ does not balance out his disease. Rather it frees him from the chains of inward obsession.      Reply Quote Notify

1672  Forums / Main Forum / Re: How to pray about decisions on: January 27, 2012, 10:51:21 PM You guys are on to something here. It sounds so simple but thats what He wants it to be. We try to do so much planning that we then turn around and brag about our discipline and wisdom. Who wants to say i did this because God told me to? Thats considered foolish and not planning very well. But how do we plan and still trust that God is the one who is giving us the wisdom? And here is where you guys are saying just come to Him not after you planned it but come to Him as you are ...broken and without the ability to plan with some sweat in seeking Him. Its so simple and painless in this sense. He doesnt ask for our wise counsel. Instead He tells us how He has made us. This is what makes us different from the world. They only have their own wise counselors and their own philosophies of life. But we are in a real relationship with the God of the universe who controls every thing. This God speaks and all is well. God could in an instant... kind of like a big miracle give us personal gifts...make us prosper beyond our own ability... provide the closest relationships .. and He could do this by speaking one word. Why do we plan as if God was not willing to do this? Because we think we are smarter than God. Did you know the Psalmist always ask God to speak the word of deliverance. The psalmist really believed that He was in the presence of a loving Father who is the God of all grace. He did not treat His time with God as if God was a man. Instead He appealed to God upon the ability that God has. Most of the time we make it difficult because we want other men to see how wise we are. We want people to think good of us. But here the Psalmist did not boast in his own strength but in the power of God. So we find him pleading to God for deliverance. We find HIm addressing our Father with a very simple request. If you would only speak the word and i would be delivered. If only you would say to me "I am the God of your salvation." Have you ever asked God to speak like this to you? In any situation?  We can pray for yrs and then a certain situation will turn our way and then in a small voice we here.. I am your salvation. This is better than all the planning we do. This is more personal than all of the wisdom of man. Speak your salvation ...Speak it Lord! Reply Quote Notify

1673  Forums / Main Forum / Re: What is "Moderation" on: January 27, 2012, 09:07:03 PM Moderation is the result of a life of having one focus. Its never the same in our entire lives. Thats why there is a time for everything. Thats part of moderation. God uses these little things in a big reminder that they are to be to us as gifts. So with all of our different propensities to practice as under the control of something comes wisdom with how we try to gain moderation. So i believe the only safe universal way is to do all things for the glory of God..because we do things normally in an effort to moderate one activity with being obsessive about trying to moderate that thing. lol Ive see this all the time...people will go on diets in an effort to lose weight and be obsessive about the diet. In my understanding of moderation is in the idea of seeking to do all things for the glory of God. So moderation is an epistemology of healthy doctrines as the way to gain moderation. There is a difference between outward trouble and how we are to oppose it with the inward disposition of the heart. As Austin says we are always restless until we find our rest in God. So a person may struggle with some things that are ingrained in them through heritage but the one thing they focus on will make it easier for their offspring to gain an advantage that in understanding this moderation of doing all things for the glory of God. One of the problems with this culture is that our eyes are always bigger than our ability to change. So we go ahead of Gods time table and we create more problems than we solve. So we must place before us the mandate of self respect as to who we are and what God is doing in our lives. There are people on both sides of  the issue of moderation.. .those who are more artistic and those who focus on the functional side who are always trying to pull us to one extreme or another. This is why God focuses on meeting our internal needs before He actually makes us better. The old adage is if you dont respect yourself then everyone else will pull you one way or the other. Some people are going through extreme trials and all we do today is stand over them and try to point out what they need to do instead of coming along side of them and offering help. Its so easy to be the friends like Job had. You know with friends like that who needs enemies? lol  We add double their trouble.  I can understand why people use things as comfort to them. I say to them "you go girl." Sometimes we can learn moderation through being the rebel... that ones for Kk.. just poking fun ..lol   Reply Quote Notify

1674  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Hypocrisy: The tribute that hedonism pays to legalism. on: January 27, 2012, 08:11:29 PM The world view of God ruling from the heavens gives us one single focus of which to make correct judgements in the distinguishing of a thing as to it purpose. The bible gives us a very clear way of reasoning these things out by defining how real justice and equity is translated as God decrees whatsoever comes to pass. The bible defines this world view in distinct terms as Gods counsel. The Psalmist says as he meditates on Gods law that God counsels him. There is a promise that this righteousness cannot come from earth to heaven but it must come down out of heaven as a foriegn righteousness to the earth. This righteousness is not a rule that is pronounced on the earth but its a Person. What is the purpose of all of the historical accounts in the ot? Its was to show how God would bring His righteous one to the earth to save man. The ot is not a moral rule book that we can create rules for man to follow. But its a book that shows this God from heaven proving that sin and death rule on this earth and the only life that is available to man is in the Righteous One who comes down out of heaven. We understand that no man can gain acceptance with God on the basis of race...culture...outward performances....heritage ... high position among men..or any other way of achievement ..but only as God has spoken from eternity past who causes all things to be created and re created. Why has God not given even His law that life giving ability? Because God does not share His authority with any man. God alone demands absolute allegiance. Man has borrowed authority. All authority is gifted by God. No man is able to say I am God. No man is able to thwart Gods authority. God says to kings...Kiss the Son lest He be angry and You be removed from your way. God rules from the heavens because He is the only Person who has existed from the beginning of the establishments of nations.God distinguishes His authority and mans authority by proclaiming that man has a short time on the earth and then he is no more. In Gods government is eternal authority. God has not only proclaimed that He alone rules from eternity past in distinguishing His authority from mans authority He brings mans authority down and lifts His authority up. Why does He do this ? So that all men might know what is true justice..true righteousness..true glory..true wealth. The problem with men is not that they perform correctly but that they fear this God in who He has proclaimed Himself to be. The problem is that man creates his own system to lower God and exalt himself. God has spoken. He has declared all men guilty so that He might be just and the justifier of all who believe in Christ. He has given all authority into Christ hands. From all eternity this glory of God has ruled the earth. He sets one king up and dethrones another one. He burns the shields and causes wars to cease. This king not only controls the second causes but this King rules all of creation. He creates disaster and brings things to naught. Who can escape His hands and vision? Who can stand before this King and argue his case? Who can claim that his knowledge of this world is valuable to this King? No one! This King has declared that all mens thoughts are futile. They cease to go on from one generation to another. Who has known the mind of God and who has been His counselor?     Reply Quote Notify

1675  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: January 27, 2012, 07:32:09 PM There is no one who seeks after God.. there is no one who does good... ...no not one.. this is added for emphasis... which is reapplied in the text to say that God gives ability before we act... which makes it impossible for man to start his own good steps in this life and to end in man getting the glory for his life. What do we conclude by this universal negative? We conclude that God has determined before hand the vessels of wrath and the vessels of mercy. And what is the equality in the ends of these two opposed ways? Its that no matter what good is in this world or what judgement is in this world both of these ways are for Gods glory.  Why do the wicked suffer? What man has the ability to argue for his being justified before God? All men stand guilty before God. What do the saints have to show they are acceptable and the rest of men are rejected? Surely if it was in man to obtain righteousness then man would have something to boast about. But we see that everyone deserves judgement. God is not merciful because He provides and equal ability to either reject or accept Him. Then man would have something to boast about. If God had a libertarian free offer of the gospel then what determines who God blesses and who God rejects? Obviously its something in man that provides the difference. But the bible says that no man can obtain righteousness apart from the gift of grace. So God reaches down and pulls some men out of the pit of judgement while at the same time leaving some in their sins. And because of this He proclaims Who is able to resist His will? That question is a just question. Its a question that vindicates God. It demands an answer! No one.. no not one.  Remove Reply Quote Notify

1676  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: YCLYS versus OSAS on: January 26, 2012, 03:26:12 PM There is this one Psalm that talks about religious hypocrisy. I really believe its distinguishing between trusting in the sacrifice and offering a sacrifice of praise. On the one hand we have those who seem to know the Lord. And on the other hand we have those who are doing the sacrifices religiously but they are acting in their hearts against the Lord and his people. So public ally they are putting on the religious act but privately they are not concerned for God or have a heart of praise in which they actually see that God should be the one to get the glory. On a personal level the Psalmist is taking the scorn of these religious people and even his own family because he is zealous to the point where he cannot praise God enough out of his own need and having his heart enlarged in response. But these religious people are busy focusing on his past sins. So in this sense the king is being opposed by those who do the acts of worship. His understanding of this opposition comes out of a sense that when he is in their presence he is being scorned by them. Here is a king who is seeking God with all of his heart so that he wishes his own sins not to be put on the other righteous peoples account. So we see this overwhelming since of his own inability and his focus is that they be vindicated. But there are people who secretly focus on other saints and wish they would be scorned for their sins. So the Psalmist is in a predicament. Its a worse experience than having to deal with the threats of the nations because these people who are scorning him know his intimate details and so he is suffering doubly not only from his physical pain but its piled upon him by his own people who are surrounding him. So it is more personal of a pain then even his godless enemies. Its interesting how hateful his response is to Jehovah. Its probably the most intense that he gets out of all the psalms. He curses them by wishing them as an image of a man who is old and his back is bent down and this man is too weak to go against the people of God as he acts the part in public. The psalmist wish is that since this man wants to expose him public ally that God will repay him in eternity with a public display. And after he gets done with his most passionate curse he rebels against this mans way of religious observance and says to God you do not want sacrifices but you want a sacrifice of praise. And then the Psalmist heart is enlarged to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. I think in this hebrews text we have this same kind of religious person who acts like he is doing the same things but in his heart he is far from seeing God as all glorious. This is a typical distinction from a false professor and a real saint.   Reply Quote Notify

1677  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: Gingrich on: January 26, 2012, 01:35:39 PM You got to understand something about Reagan. He was a conservative but he gave away a lot of power to the congress to get those taxs cuts. Basically he increased the revenues by a ridiculous amount but the congress spent it as it was coming in. Newt was a conservative who wanted it to be really conservative. Another thing... Reagan was a democrat who changed to the republican party. To say that Newt could not fundamentally change his way of doing his conservatism since Reagan is the same thing as saying that Reagan could not change his positions. lol   Reply Quote Notify

1678  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Dave Ramsey Refresher on: January 26, 2012, 12:10:54 PM The ot system was like a sliding scale. The reason that the foreigners were treated with dignity over their own people was because the foreigners were considered poor and without the benefits of protection of the law that was given to the poor in a national sense. When God divided the kingdom because of Solomon s rule it was because he was using workers as slaves. Look at the ot text on this. Solomon was a christian who lived like a humanist. Think about this David was Gods king a redemption motif of Christ. Solomon was Davids son. But God did in the end judge Israel for Solomons ruthless ways. He was enjoying all the bounty of the foreign countries and was making his own countrymen slaves of his kingdom. In other words he had one set of rules for himself and another for the citizens. Sound familiar? If God did not judge this county he would need to apologize to His king. lol   Reply Quote Notify

1679  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: January 26, 2012, 11:29:47 AM The world is upside down as we speak. People seem to have blinders on to what is going on. Slavery is not just being taken captive by a person. But its being swallowed up in a system. Look at the news. The mass of peoples lives are being destroyed every day. People are being enslaved by debt. The world no longer is a patriarchal world. All you got to do is read a little on the current debt that all people are carrying. Listen this world is coming apart. You just do not want to look at the facts.  This world is very uncertain and confusing. People do not like all the confusion so they just live in the past. They will not face the facts that our country will no longer be the same. Every day its going to get more and more unbearable to live in. Just look at the debt in trillions of dollars and thats not counting the destruction it is raving to the poor.  There is no real ability to make money enough to keep up. The poor are getting poorer and those who are not caught in this cycle have not faced the facts that we are in a situation of real disaster. Look its not the same world.Dont be stupid. Here is our personal livelihood in the numbers lol http://www.usdebtclock.org/ watch our quality of life disappear as this clock turns. Remove Reply Quote Notify

1680	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted	on: January 26, 2012, 11:04:49 AM
Quote from: Kings_kid on January 26, 2012, 12:20:35 AM mbG:  "So to our faces are drawn by the word to the light of the glory of Christ that keeps us looking strait ahead. We do not move to the rite or the left." K_k:  Nope, i move to the left (so He brings me back to the right), then i go too far to the right (so He brings me back to the left), then the cycle starts again.  Kind of like a guided missile being fired at a target -- it doesn't go straight to the target but has small side-rockets to adjust the course as it goes a little off course in this way or that.  But in the End our Dad, through His Word, zeros us in on the target -- the Image of God Who is Christ. See this is the difference between you and i. Im talking about teaching and your talking about works. lol The point is even if we are straying yet we are still not moving. lol Because we have been given one focus. Its being delivered in an ongoing way. We must understand that its not our sin that keeps us from moving on this path but its the holes that the reprobate place in our way. They dig a hole for us to fall into. We have no reason to fear our own sin. We know that God as our Father does not require us to be perfect. This is why He responds to us not according to our sins but according to His perfect understanding of who we are and it was already determined in eternity pass. Our ability to not turn to the rite or the left is His hands and eyes determining our next step. We must understand that we are not led along by our willing it to be but by our focusing on being delivered from our enemies, the schemes of men, and our tendency to trust in ourselves so that we grow cold toward God. God does not want good people but He wants people who are dependent and looking for every thing in this life from His hand. God has loved us from eternity past based upon His name and not our willingness. We are only confident when we walk as He wants us to walk . Its not in our might not in our horses but its trusting in the name of the Lord. This is the only way to oppose people who want to oppose good in this world. Our God is a consuming fire. He goes out before us as a fire and consumes our foes. The Holy Spirit is not just a teacher but He is our defender. We advance by doing greater good things because God will glorify His name on our behalf. We seek to do good things because God is delivering us from all that oppose Him and want to force us to be our own god. So we advance by the Holy Spirit making our paths level. He clears our our opposition by praying through us. What does He pray on our behalf? For Gods name sake preserve our lives ...or persevere through us.... In Gods righteousness bring us out of trouble...In Gods unfailing love silence our enemies to all that we seek for our neighbor... destroy all of our foes because the Holy Spirit has given us eyes to focus on God at all times. we are His servants waiting for our deliverance.        Quote from: Kings_kid on January 25, 2012, 09:22:30 PM mbG:  "But the law only speaks death." K_k:  Only death to hate, it appears. Leviticus 19:18 "You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am (YHWH) the LORD." Luke 10:25-28 "And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He (Jesus) said to him, “What is written in the Law? What is your reading of it?” So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD (YHWH) your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”   Like ive been saying you have a way of mixing hate with love...lol .. dont avoid other text about Jesus cursing... start to read the Revelation...it will open your eyes. Dont avoid thinking about text you do not agree with...lol There is a difference between putting on blinders and walking straight ahead. I will bet you that you havent read Bunyan.... its obvious that you have a bone to pick and not well rounded because your not teaching whole doctrine but just something that appears to be successful to you. Your just a pawn sir.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 1682  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Real Gospel on: January 26, 2012, 10:25:46 AM Quote from: beacon2 on January 24, 2012, 05:51:36 PM Quote from: mybigGod on January 24, 2012, 04:10:19 PM Look to say that all the world is reconciled is to deny that hatred exist. Reconciliation is simply a word to describe a relationship. Its not a word with secret unseen powers.lol.. your in denial that enmity exist in relationships that any one can apply logic and see it.   MBG The word reconciliation in the context that I've been using it does not mean that all men, though forgiven, have a relationship or are in fellowship with God. That does not happen until a man is born again of God's Spirit. What the word reconciliation means, is that what stood in the way (oficially) between God and man, namely the penalty for sins incurred under the first covenant and the uncleanness of the sinner, have been taken away through the work of Christ on the Cross. Therefore, as incomprehensible as this is to us, men are right now, as long as it is called Today and we are still in the Year of the Lord's favor proclaimed by our Lord, in good standing and right before God because of Christ.  And because they are clean in the eyes of God (the only One Who matters), they may freely approach His throne of Grace. Is there enmity towards God from unbelievers right now, and wickedness, and hatred, etc.? Absolutely! And this is why we proclaim the good news to nonbelievers and ask them to be reconciled to God (under the terms of the New Covenant).   Reconciliation is absolutely essential to being delivered in this world. Now if reconciliation was shown in men who oppose salvation then those who are delivered are without hope. Because salvation is not just being forgiven from our sins but its being delivered from the schemes of evil men. Sin is not a person as if it was all that we oppose. But sin marks those men of whom God cannot look on with pleasure. So we are not talking about the difference between those who are accepted on the basis of whether they avoid sin but we are talking about the relationship men have with God and with other men. Reconciliation lifts salvation to a level in which God accepts real sinners on the basis of someone elses obedience , death and resurrection. Reconciliation is absolutely essential as our only hope of escaping the final judgement upon sinners. It was through justification by faith that we have obtain reconciliation with God. This is why no man can reconcile himself by how he performs. No man can stand in rite relationship with God or other men who is opposed to God and His deliverance. We can say that all men are sinners because they will not seek God. They are not sinners because they practice sin necessarily. The are sinners first and that is why they will not seek God. The reason they will not be reconciled is not because they practice sin but because they are born sinners. This is why we say that no man will seek ongoing deliverance in this life as long as he remains in an unreconciled relationship to God. For men are marked in enmity by their not fearing God. We see that in remaining in an unreconciled state that men from birth go their own way. Its not that they refrain from listening to their conscience. But its that they show they have no desire to seek God for who God is. We stand in direct opposition to men who have no fear of God. Because we have been reconciled to God and we have no reason to avoid God. We seek God based upon His work through Christ in being declared righteous in the courts of heaven. But men who have not been declared righteous seek to be their own god. In seeking to be their own god they have no lasting relationship with other people in a realistic way. They live for themselves only. This world is not in need of connection but deliverance. A person who has been reconciled to God puts a stake in the ground of declaring that he no longer wants to seek his former idols. The reconciled lay down their fight to advance themselves as a god. This is why only those who have been reconciled place all their trust in God alone. There is no longer any other reason to trust in men...in things..in themselves. They seek God as a friend. But those who oppose God are declaring their independence from God and they stand in opposition not only to God but to every thing that God does in this world. We must understand that reconciliation not only defines a man who knows God for God but it defines a man in how his relationship to every thing as his view of the world stands in opposition to godless men who view things in an unregenerate state. All of the realities and teachings are only conflicted as we grow in wisdom as we seek God for who God is. The two  realities of this universe that stand in opposition to one another are those who are reconciled opposed to those who are unreconciled. One has God as their Father the others have Satan as their father. One enjoys ongoing love, joy, peace etc while the other is cast into the awful effects of his own pride and hatred for God. In seeking God by being reconciled we cannot be separated from experiencing on going deliverance. But we will experience opposition to all that we love because all men declare independence from God.       Reply Quote Notify 1683  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: In Memory of Gene Zeak on: January 25, 2012, 07:41:07 AM Quote from: mylife4him on January 25, 2012, 04:57:22 AM Quote from: Peach on March 13, 2010, 02:10:00 PM Isn't it interesting how many of us wandered back here when we heard about Gene's homegoing? Just imagine the grand time we will have one day when we're all with Jesus, Gene & Cindy! Some of "us" have met others of "us," and we're counting on you all to introduce us when the time comes. Except, somehow, I suspect that no introduction will be necessary, least of all for Gene & Cindy. Just think, they are once again dancing together ... but this time, on streets of gold. They have no memory whatsoever of the pain, heartache, sickness, or sorrows they experienced here on Earth. Just joy, unspeakable, and full of glory. The grace God gave to them, lived out in faith, is now their reality for eternity. And one day, soon, it will also be ours. God bless you, little flock, and forever family from KLF / Ekklesia. And Geno, if you are reading this (which I seriously doubt), keep the porch light on for us? None of us are all that far behind you ... ♥╬ Blessings. Peach 1 Co 15 I am remembering Gene............ not sure why now.....but I am............ Mylife I miss Gene too. He came to my house after Cindy had passed and we had a very profitable time of fellowship and encouragement. It appeared to me that Gene had some supernatural gifts of faith. But i think he had matured by suffering for so many years. I realized as i was talking to him that it was never just a head knowledge with Gene. Gene experienced a dramatic change when he was saved. And because he was so damn smart it was an experience that gave him instant understanding of this supernatural rest beyond his years. Ive never met a person such as Gene that was fully confident in the mist of always being under the threat of death because of his condition. I pray for these kinds of meetings where i know i am in the presence of a saint who brings the angels. But the most attractive thing about Gene was the display of kind of resignation to the goodness of God and his wanting to encourage me while he was suffering so much. Man i miss mr Gene . Reply Quote Notify 1684  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: A Few Sighs from Hell;JOHN BUNYAN on: January 25, 2012, 07:23:20 AM Moreover, 'the dogs came and licked his sores.' Here again you may see, not only the afflicted state of the saints of God in this world, but also that even dogs themselves, according to their kind, are more favourable to the saints than the sinful world; though the ungodly will have no mercy on the saints, yet it is ordered so that these creatures, dogs, lions, &c. will. Though the rich man would not entertain him into his house, yet his dogs will come and do him the best good they can, even to lick his running sores. It was thus with Daniel when the world was mad against him, and would have him thrown to the lions to be devoured, the lions shut their mouths at him, or rather the Lord did shut them up, so that there was not that hurt befel to him as was desired by the adversaries (Dan 6). And this I am persuaded of, that would the creatures do as some men would have them, the saints of God should not walk so quietly up and down the streets and other places as they do. And as I said before, so I say again, I am persuaded that, at the day of judgment, many men's conditions and carriages will be so laid open, that it will evidently appear they have been very merciless and mad against the children of God, insomuch, that when the providence of God did fall out so as to cross their expectation, they have been very much offended thereat, as is very evidently seen in them who set themselves to study how to bring the saints into bondage, and to thrust them into corners, as in these late years (Psa 31:13). And because God hath in his goodness ordered things otherwise, they have gnashed their teeth thereat.[10] Hence then let the saints learn not to commit themselves to their enemies; 'beware of men' (Matt 10:17). They are very merciless men, and will not so much favour you, if they can help it, as you may suppose they may. Nay, unless the overruling hand of God in goodness do order things contrary to their natural inclination, they will not favour you so much as a dog. Verse 22.– 'And it came to pass that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried.' The former verses do briefly hold forth the carriage of the ungodly in this life toward the saints. Now this verse doth hold forth the departure, both of the godly and ungodly, out of this life. Where he said, 'And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried - into Abraham's bosom,' and 'the rich man also died';–the beggar died, that represents the godly; and the rich man died, that represents the ungodly. From whence observe, neither godly nor ungodly must live always without a change, either by death or judgment; the good man died and the bad man died. That scripture doth also back this truth, that good and bad must die, marvellous well, where it is said, 'And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment' (Heb 9:27). Remove Reply Quote Notify 1685  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Real Gospel on: January 24, 2012, 04:10:19 PM Look to say that all the world is reconciled is to deny that hatred exist. Reconciliation is simply a word to describe a relationship. Its not a word with secret unseen powers.lol.. your in denial that enmity exist in relationships that any one can apply logic and see it.  Reply Quote Notify 1686  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: YCLYS versus OSAS on: January 24, 2012, 03:46:43 PM Romans 5:10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Romans 5:9-11 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter) 1 Corinthians 7:11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. As you see in rom that reconciliation and salvation are inseparable. Spiritual reconciliation is as real as a wife returning to her husband and cannot be separated from the quality of that relationship being restored. If indeed God has reconciled the world to Himself then why do men suffer the punishment of hell? Why do men desire to be godless? Why do men not want this God? To say that a man who displays hatred to his wife in divorce and claim that the relationship is a picture of reconciliation is to believe more of a fantasy than for a labor worker to claim that he is the president. If all men are reconciled to God then all men are enjoying the fruit of that reconciliation. If the cross earned reconciliation for all men and not all men show the fruit of that reconciliation then the cross is powerless to evidence real reconciliation because some men do not show the evidence of that power. If God has promised resurrection power through the cross then He accomplished the work necessary for that power to be displayed.If i said that the energy drink helped me win the race and you told me the energy drink helped all men win the race but some men do not desire and thus consume the energy drink then i would think you had a screw loose. Its the same thing as saying that when you add water to tea the water is the same as the tea. Your saying the water does not dilute the taste of the tea or the strength of the tea. And what i am saying is that the water in reality is put in the tea to dilute its quality. Same thing with the cross. Any thing that needs to be done outside of what was accomplished at the cross is water to the tea. We must believe that all the promises are yea and amen not because they are available but because we believe and it is so. Its not our believing it is so because we did not die on the cross. But they are yea and amen because they already determine that there is nothing necessary to do except receive it as a gift. A gift is not shared but its always only received.  Not all men want the gift so it doesnt apply to them. But it doesnt make the work of the cross any less definite that it is already finished. To believe any other way is to accept an equal power that his work on the cross is as necessary as my believing as we look at its saving power and thus to waver in your faith that as God is God so is His work accomplished in God.       Reply Quote Notify 1687  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: January 24, 2012, 02:32:48 PM Let me keep to the theme of this thread. We must visit this hot hate that we have. The problem we have is that we have a choice between suffering abuse and holding onto our emotions that well up inside of us. This is very destructive to a person. Its often disguised by being motivated by guilt and shame. This is why anger and hate are so hard to unpack so to speak. We misrepresent Gods holy desire by making light of His ability in responding to our situation. We are judging God by motivating someone through guilt and shame. This deep angry core will never be overcome but will only manifest in self loathing and the wrong self hate. If we hate ourselves we are saying that God is not good. So there is an inward outlet. Guilt and shame should never be the motivating factor in forgiveness or wanting to be loved. This is the devils soil that places the law as the voice of reason. But the law only speaks death. What Satan wants to do is use the law to as a weapon of force to cause us to go inward and then to actually commit suicide. Most people who suffer abuse through neglect... the schemes of men who make a mountain of rules ...the physical and verbal abuse have no outlet for this hot anger and intense feelings of hate. But God has a level of hate that will never be extinguished. His hate is like a fire. It is good for us to visit this intense hate before our consuming fire. If we want to know love we must resist abuse. No one ever grows through the abuse of guilt and manipulation. Because guilt and shame are patterns of thinking that God has broken in the new birth. This way of thinking is our natural self hate expressed as if we are obedient enough to discourage someone else through shame. This shows our level of immaturity and our lack of understanding of the love of God. Every person if put under the microscope of the law would be extinguished. So we see how difficult it is to change the way we think so that we have a free flow of love coming to us to cause us to rejoice in His ways. This free flow is thinking in a covenant way. But we cannot receive the reality of Gods great love if we do not resist the abuse of the world. There is no one who grows through a mystical path of power that does not work through its vessel.  We may be renewed but we are still human beings. And so we must learn to visit this intense hate. If we know how to get to that anger ..that deep hate then God will cause us to look at it and will respond with His protection. But if we hold it in and fight to find hope and trust that God is good then we will turn this anger inward.  Remove Reply Quote Notify 1688  Members Only / Purgatory / Re: The Art of War on: January 24, 2012, 01:57:31 PM Isaiah 42 10 Sing to the LORD a new song,    his praise from the ends of the earth, you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it,    you islands, and all who live in them. 11 Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices;    let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice. Let the people of Sela sing for joy;    let them shout from the mountaintops. 12 Let them give glory to the LORD    and proclaim his praise in the islands. 13 The LORD will march out like a champion,    like a warrior he will stir up his zeal; with a shout he will raise the battle cry    and will triumph over his enemies.  14 “For a long time I have kept silent,    I have been quiet and held myself back. But now, like a woman in childbirth,    I cry out, I gasp and pant. 15 I will lay waste the mountains and hills    and dry up all their vegetation; I will turn rivers into islands    and dry up the pools. This is a figure of speech as if God were praying these very bold prayers through us. But He is acting on our words. 16 I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,    along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them    and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do;    I will not forsake them. 17 But those who trust in idols,    who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’    will be turned back in utter shame. Here is what Isaiah is saying...The Lord remains silent as long as we are silent. But when we come to the Lord and plead with Him then it stirs up His zeal. So in other words its a text where it is encouraging us to take the lead in stirring ourselves up and in doing this we are commanding Him to advance in our behalf. What does it say ? He will listen to our battle cries and advance against His enemies. Now think of this here we are without hope and we are dismayed. We see enemies on every side. Here is the Lord who encourages us to stir up His zeal. lol He will not be prepared to advance if we have no call to Him. This is exactly the opposite of what we think is christian humility. We think He is trying to prove to us that He means business by the amount of respect we have for Him. But here He is actually saying come to Me and command Me because I am your army. He is saying here that He is waiting for His marching orders... He is reversing the order here. lol Remove Reply Quote Notify 1689  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: YCLYS versus OSAS on: January 24, 2012, 08:30:58 AM I had a chance to memorize the first few chapts in Hebrews and then decided to go to the Revelation of John. But this book was written to squelch the old myth that God was not personally assessable through His Fatherly care. In other words there was a misunderstanding of God as the creator of the eternal family. So Hebrews opens up with this absolute promise for the elect that they are in a family where Christ is their older brother which is proved by how authority is expressed downward. This God who was distant in the ot sense is now completely revealed as their Father. The author gives us the christian perspective that assurance and security are produced by the absoluteness of these saving effects from the idea that it is gifted as if they had no choice in being a part of this family like they are born into their earthly family. So we see that all of the motives to advance in this faith have their soil in Gods love in a family. You cant become someone who has an identity that you were not born with. So you cant be identified with any one outside of the family. But it was greater seminal proof in this idea of adoption as the spiritual component of proof of His doing all of it. Instead of his warning about this personal knowledge of this family having only a hope of having its representation to those who have God as Father. He buttresses it by showing that God alone has the rite to choose who is in. So instead of making this a call to the world He actually is giving the saints more confidence by showing that its impossible for men to get in by acting the part.   Reply Quote Notify 1690  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom For The Addicted on: January 24, 2012, 08:11:33 AM Do not avoid evil as if Satan has made it a curse to you through your eyes and ears. But study evil. Study the effects of evil. Know they enemy. Do not learn to avoid things so that you are naive. If you really trust in Gods power then nothing can harm you as if it came to you like a witches spell. Its just a lot of mystical crap. The study of evil is absolutely necessary. Christ was said to have been evil by spending his time in the presence of adulteries and men who were destructive in this world. It gave His opponents the apparent proof of their argument that He did His miracles by the power of Satan. Christ was not afraid of evil but overcame evil with good. We are overcome with evil not by seeing it or being tempted by it but by not understanding it. Our tendency is to think that evil is equal to fear. When we see evil we are afraid of its power. We avoid things because of fear. But the fear really is our own anger that we feel we cannot overcome the evil. So we are not honest with who we are before God. How can we long to go to a foreign land if we avoid the opposition that makes us want to go there? lol My point is that we have not dealt with our angry core if we are afraid of evil. But only allow yourself this advantage as you are given ability. Remove Reply Quote Notify 1691  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free Grace Freedom on: January 24, 2012, 07:49:00 AM People are genuinely afraid of christian freedom. They would rather try to be someone they are not. The world is a place of confusion. And its not first evident in the circumstances themselves but its the meta physical power struggles that are communicated under the surface. We long to be out of this world so that we might see and end to sin and this struggle. Have you ever been illuminated of this trouble and mused to God about being translated in experience so that He might show you Himself? This world is not really actors in a physical performance but its really thinking and feeling as if God was God. How can we be freed from whatever our present circumstance is forcing us to be? We must be open in prayer before God in what we ask and say to Him. On the one hand we must see ourselves in the light of our world. We must see the desperate communication in this abusive force. We must learn how to resist this world in a meta physical sense. This resistance is that grace given to us by Gods mercy. He replaces our mental illness as we see how we are being molded by the deceit and corruption of evil men so that we can think and feel according to Gods gentle way of leading us. We must see that we are forced into a basement the world creates to be controlled by the evil schemes that are made by powerful men. We must get to the place in prayer were we oppose real powers and schemes. We must find refuge in God who does not have boundaries on the presence He inhabits. But God actually has arms and hands in a every communication on this earth. We must begin by seeing what God sees in this abuse. This is resisting the schemes of this world. If we are given wisdom to fight this fight then we will experience genuine freedom in the presence of God. God gives us His presence. He gives us His covenant disposition. The world moves on an economy of the powerful and self made man. But God gives us the ability in His presence to be transformed without the constraints of time, place or being constrained by the evils of this system. God gives us supernatural freedom. This freedom is the ability to see the evil as it really is. God gives us a level of wisdom that will not destroy us but will give us the path to freedom as we receive His illuminations. I can not absolutely say its through a system of words but its in a reality that is beyond what we can ask or think. Gods love is in Himself and what He is then all things are made rite.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 1692  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Do we need to get our act together to witness? on: January 24, 2012, 07:08:47 AM We need to be genuine. If we try to be someone we are not then people will be led to act based upon what the other people are telling us. But we are required to be transparent to God so that we might lead them with the proper motives. Not a motive to please other men but a motive that is singular and pleasing to God. This is why there is so much confusion when we begin to be a so called mentor. This kind of mentoring can be really weird. We can create something we are not and then everyone that  we mentor will be an actor in the program. The genuine person will learn to receive wisdom from God through illumination and then after applying it to his own life he will be and share it with others. But this can become weird also. Because we can act in an imperialistic way as if we arrived and everyone around us are lucky to ask us questions and learn from our knowledge. But we see that you cant fake real relationships. We can try to be positive and sinless instead of thinking and feeling what we are at that moment. lol We can avoid complaining and public anger but it will eventually eat away at us. So we need to learn how to be transparent before God so that others will experience the freedom as holistically enjoying the moment. In private praying things we really feel and in public being genuine in the moment with wisdom. The moment of Gods creating a new day. We may think that relationships are just being together and learning about each other. But the goal of a relationship is to advance in the grace through this redemptive process and not through adding something to someone what will give them a better outward ability to be attractive. A lot of us think that being a beggar is simply something we try to be instead of something we actually feel in ourselves. But this christian life is about being genuine before God in order to be genuine before each other. And God will lead us to places we do not want to go in a way of grace that does not destroy us. We will get the strength to advance as opposed to being subjected to abuse. God will lead us to give up everything in order to be a person who is transparent for others. Christ went down the path to self denial and it was for those who had not ability to be healthy or respectable in this world. Christ put himself in the position of being under the burden of receiving the accusations of men against the poor in order to save them. Even tho we may not be able to instantly go down this path we will slowly be led down it because it is how we experience Gods smile and acceptance. It is a path where we receive real personal encouragement from our Father. Its a path were we are abandoning ourselves for Gods eternal kingdom. We are not trying to act like a beggar but we learn that a beggar has the most genuine disposition for Gods kingdom. Our path of learning this is to be given grace as an ability before we move in this abandonment. We begin to have a more clear vision of God and we forget who we were. The grace that we are going to receive becomes that grace that appears before other men through us. On this path it becomes apparent that we are being surrounded by His presence so that the troubles we receive as a high priest are nothing in comparison to the glory that we will see when we see Him. But we cannot advance trying to be someone we are not. We must go when we are given light to our feet. We must advance when we have been given ability to move.     Reply Quote Notify 1693  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Moneyball vs courageous on: January 22, 2012, 01:27:46 PM I can find a lot of redemption in that story...i need to see it... if only we would not abandon our little ones it would be a better world. Its so simple but we make it really complicated. Reply Quote Notify 1694  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: A Few Sighs from Hell;JOHN BUNYAN on: January 22, 2012, 01:20:04 PM By these words our Lord Jesus doth show us the frame of a Christian's heart, and also the heart and carriage of worldly men towards the saints of the Lord. The Christian's heart is held forth by this, that anything will content him while he is on this side glory. And 'he desired to be fed with the crumbs'; the dogs' meat, anything. I say a Christian will be content with anything, if he have but to keep life and soul together; as we used to say, he is content, he is satisfied; he hath learned–if he hath learned to be a Christian–to be content with anything; as Paul saith, 'I have learned in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content' (Phil 4:11). He learns in all conditions to study to love God, to walk with God, to give up himself to God; and if the crumbs that fall from the rich man's table will but satisfy nature and give him bodily strength, that thereby he may be the more able to walk in the way of God, he is contented. And he 'desired to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table.'[6] But mark, he had them not; you do not find that he had so much as a crumb, or a scrap allowed unto him. No, then the dogs will be beguiled, THAT must be preserved for the dogs. From whence observe that the ungodly world do love their dogs better than the children of God.[7] You will say that is strange. It is so indeed, yet it is true, as will be clearly manifested; as, for instance, how many pounds do some men spend in a year on their dogs, when in the meanwhile the poor saints of God may starve for hunger? They will build houses for their dogs, when the saints must be glad to wander, and lodge in dens and caves of the earth (Heb 11:38). And if they be in any of their houses for the hire thereof, they will warn them out or eject them, or pull down the house over their heads, rather than not rid themselves of such tenants.[8] Again, some men cannot go half a mile from home but they must have dogs at their heels, but they can very willingly go half a score miles without the society of a Christian. Nay, if when they are busy with their dogs they should chance to meet a Christian, they would willingly shift him if they could. They will go on the other side the hedge or the way rather than they will have any society with him; and if at any time a child of God should come into a house where there are but two or three ungodly wretches, they do commonly wish either themselves or the saint out of doors; and why so? because they cannot down[9] with the society of a Christian; though if there come in at the same time a dog, or a drunken swearing wretch, which is worse than a dog, they will make him welcome; he shall sit down with them and partake of their dainties. And now tell me, you that love your sins and your pleasures, had you not rather keep company with a drunkard, a swearer, a strumpet, a thief, nay, a dog, than with an honest-hearted Christian? If you say no, what means your sour carriage to the people of God? Why do you look on them as if you would eat them up? Yet at the very same time if you can but meet your dog, or a drunken companion, you can fawn upon them, take acquaintance with them, to the tavern or ale house with them, if it be two or three times in a week. But if the saints of God meet together, pray together, and labour to edify one another, you will stay till doomsday before you will look into the house where they are. Ah! friends, when all comes to all, you will be found to love drunkards, strumpets, dogs, anything, nay, to serve the devil, rather than to have loving and friendly society with the saints of God. Remove Reply Quote Notify 1695  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Real Gospel on: January 22, 2012, 12:43:06 PM Within the context of confession i do not think we can erase this idea of how we stand before the law. And the saint distinguishes himself of standing before the law as rite because of Christ in light of his present circumstances. So the confession is really not his main objective. Confession is not a magic formula as if it was some kind of island of righteousness. But in approaching God we are sinners who are in need of grace not just grace for sin. So when we come to God it may be for various reasons. And that means our understanding of our sin is more important than our list of sins. A person can acknowledge his list of sins and have no understanding of the reality of the sin. And in this sense God is seen as standing at the door of our sinning and demanding payment by confession. But if anyone has prayed these psalms in light of God general disposition about our circumstances then they would see  that God is available to us beyond this one issue. So it results to us before God that we are concerned for our sins. But we really are coming to God in the motif of deliverance from this present world. Its in the holistic effects of Gods enabling grace. We are coming as unable sinners not as guilty sinners as if the law was our school master. So we are concerned for our sins but we know that God is not looking at our sins.It is more dangerous to place God in the position as our judge than how much we show sorrow for our sins. We are coming to a redeemer not a judge. We are being defended not accused.