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901	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Devil Made me Do it!	on: September 30, 2012, 06:12:13 AM
Greek philosophy teaches that we are fundamentally who we are by what we do. But the bible in the historical context teaches that we are what we are by what we think we are. Because you cant argue that you  do not believe something that is dogmatic for the sake of proving what you are by what you do. Everyone believes exactly what they describe as the truth. This is why we do not seek to agree for agreements sake. Because that is a belief as well. Maybe in holding to dogmatic beliefs we are seeking to focus more on the causes of the existence of things rather than being subject to deception by not taking into consideration all of truth. We are not what we do because there is no one who does what is rite. There is no one who can say that he is the truth by what he does. Christ is the only man who is the Truth. So we are what we believe Christ is. This is why we are an image of the dogma of who Christ is. The christian life is lived in a way of thinking. If we stray from that way... the gospel way then we experience tension. Tension is simply redefining real reality to be independent of God. This is why it does not begin at the command level but goes back to how we should think about God and then about ourselves. We must be taught how to renew our minds. Because a thought is like an image of reality. Our view of the world is a description of how we think. The bible forbids us to trust in imaginations that exalt themselves against God. So the most dangerous threat to society is the miss representation of God. To not think correctly is to imagine that God does not exist. Its to our own good that we think as God teaches us to think.
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902  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Devil Made me Do it! on: September 29, 2012, 02:04:08 AM The unhindered success of the gospel is pure glory and bliss. God gives us pure grace and tells us to live in that. But man opposes God on moral grounds. lol So there is always opposition to the work of God alone. Men cannot control how successful the gospel is because the message itself is the answer. So the problem is one of living in the gospel as understanding the danger of trying to control it. lol This is why we believe that the means of grace provide us with an indirect protection. How did Christ oppose Satan? Christ opposed Satan by saying "it is written." So the bible has in it all the power of opposing Satan. We do not need to add anything to it. The bible is the final word of judgement upon Satan. So we say the bible is the only counsel that is sure and stead fast. It is all we need to live a life of success and in the fear of God. The bible is the only book that does not accuse the people who are saved. It is a book that proves it is successful by its pronouncements. The bible is a book that pronounces blessings on whole families. So we stand as being completely righteous in the righteousness of Christ. The opposition is to entertain an accusation against us. It is to redefine the image that we are being recreated to. Satan wants us to think that grace is good but not too good. The message of grace is the most unoffensive message but it is the most hated by the natural man. But God has cursed the way of Satan.   Reply Quote Notify

903  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Devil Made me Do it! on: September 29, 2012, 01:37:59 AM Satan is said to be an angel of light. Which means that he comes as the good guy with wise words. But at the same time its appeal to us humans when we see strange things happen. Its appealing to people who are desperate to fix something thats broken with a miracle. No matter what it looks like either through wrong counsel or through the occult practices..including christian occult... Satan blinds the minds of people to the truth of God. This whole argument of how successful Satan is has its success in making people think that good is bad and the bad is good. This is why God has explained His plan in terms that are simple and yet in applying them they can be complex. Satan is able to get people to focus on everything except the gospel plan. So the question is what does Satan say that keeps people held under his power? He offers a plan that is like the gospel ... in how people are taught the truth but there is always a misrepresentation of grace. So in some ways Satan has a handle on the main line christian system of teaching because of his ability to come as the gospel guy. If for the grace of God even the elect would be deceived. So Satan deceives people into thinking they can fight him with their own power. This is why it appeals to people to try to exercise Satan through incantations or other physical methods.  Satan works through the extreme .. the quick fixes. When we observe the work of Satan on first observance it looks christian and successful. It looks very moral. The descriptions in how people are connected in society.. the seeming close relationships that are based upon agreement of some moral teaching deceive us into thinking that its a christian connection. But who wants to say that a little good mixed with some bad is all bad? So Satan is able to keep us from opposing the bad because it would not help but further destroy. No matter how we are opposed in the end only God can work to overcome the power of Satan.   Reply Quote Notify

904  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) on: September 28, 2012, 08:12:45 PM Even in the ot you did not see the power of God to forgive sins through the sacrifice of the lamb. But you have a display of God proving in a direct way that salvation is to judge Israels enemies and protect His people. And this really make a distinction for us when we have the Lamb of God coming to save His people. And in the cross we have both the salvation of Gods elect purchased by the Lamb at the cross while at the same time He earned the rite to be the ultimate judge of the wicked. We must understand that God proves Himself faithful after 450 years of Israel being subject to slavery in Egypt. But God heard their cries and He delivered them. Its interesting that this did not even involve an uprising among the captives but God Himself delivered His people through putting to death a generation of Egyptians and destroying their armies in the Red Sea. This event was the proof of Gods covenant faithfulness to never abandon His people. If you study the ot proving ground for covenant faithfulness in redeeming His people you will see that the events in Egypt are the source of the personal experiences of all the generations of Israelites when they thought about their personal salvation. This gives us a more direct work in a relational sense. So in a sense the blood of the lamb was a reminder and had no power to save but the fact that the deliverance was a miraculous event as God displayed His covenant faithfulness was a more profound and deeper message that salvation is accomplished by God alone and it is given freely. Reply Quote Notify

905  Forums / Break Room / Re: Godspell“As long as we live there is never enough singing.” ― Martin Luther on: September 24, 2012, 07:54:11 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gplJkFRYTFg Here is the production that we put on. Remove Reply Quote Notify

906  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Church abuse on: September 24, 2012, 05:00:10 PM I kind of agree with LM here. We have a tendency in this country to divide our lives up in segments and so we take on different identities. I hear this a lot about how we describe our circumstances and the people that are in our lives. And i think its because we feel secure if we can define our lives in this way so that we feel like we have control. The question is can we as christians develop into being neurotic because of the difficult task of living up to these different definitions of our success? I understand that any relational philosophy if taken to an extreme is like a self fulfilling prophecy. And its self fulfilling in that we talk like LM is complaining about. So we all have this tendency to trust in a philosophy and then we begin to describe ourselves with words that make these different societies.. ie work, family, church, recreation as if these are the things that we place as important when we are thinking about who we are. And its easy for us to use these perfectly legitimate societies as our explanation of how we measure success. I mean we and everyone around us are who they are by what we think they are. Can we misjudge the importance of these different societies in how we understand who we are? After all we are thinking about how we view the world by our importance we place upon the value of that relationship or thing. Can we determine that a person or thing is who they are absolutely by our view? Obviously we would be subject to focusing on reality as if things were repeated exactly from one day to the next.  But really there is nothing that is the same in time. Everything really is original from one moment to another. Why do we think that things are in categories and they repeat themselves? Why do we assume that a person is the same and will do the same things because thats what they did? Are not we required as a matter of avoiding prejudice to get the facts?  And isnt the process of getting the facts an acknowledgement that we do not think its moral to judge someone on the basis of prior behavior? This is why the bible starts with grace. Because it goes back to the original purposes and describes man according to something prior to his experience in time. What would be so important about focusing on man as Gods creation? Because we begin to define reality as original as God designs it and as He works it out. What this biblical way of viewing the world does is in providing us with viewing everything in time as a created design we see that everything has a purpose beyond our understanding of the view of a thing as we understand it to be and because of this we know grace to be the creation of Gods gifts to us because everything is original.     Reply Quote Notify

907  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The bible tells when life begins on: September 24, 2012, 12:15:16 PM cont... now this is what is so different about real grace and the pragmatic stuff. You see here is a man who first argues to save his own skin in how he consoles himself to this refuge hope.. the supernatural sustaining power. Why does the bible say that a man who denies himself is the one who receives new life..the new hope.. Christ in you? Because self denial is our initial response in being regenerated. True self denial is Gods work first. But if self denial is viewed by us as denying oneself for a further giving up of an old will then its not biblical self denial but will worship denial. Real self denial finds the bottom as grace. Because biblical self denial is God ordering our salvation so that He initially destroys our old will and gives us a new one. Now then our will is Gods will. We cannot have a half power of denial. The christian life is not leading through hoping that it will be but its leading through a will that we do not have intrinsically. Its not wishing better of others but its taking their place. So there is two aspects. There is an understanding of the dangers in the destruction of people and there is a focus on a course in which all destruction is subdued. We must conquer all enemies. Because Gods will is total destruction of the destroyers. To lead one must see the seriousness of the opposition. And if the leader is duped its the same thing as the creation of a world where there is no hope. So the christian warfare is fighting till death... that being our natural course. Its really Gods will overcoming all opposition. This is why we do not waver on sovereign grace because we do not want to be deceived about the reality in our purpose as Gods will being done on this earth. So in a sense so goes the leader so goes the poor.    Reply Quote Notify

908  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The bible tells when life begins on: September 24, 2012, 11:34:50 AM cont.... I believe this is a sister Psalm to Psalm 24. I do not believe that ascending to the holy hill is just talking about the worship aspect of Israel... but its all three branches of government. The judicial, the ceremonial, and the worship. Because the King of glory is Christ as a warrior who rules the entire nation of Israel as He comes through the gates after destroying the nations. How does He provide real refuge and peace? He subdues all powers. And you have the 25 which is Christ kingdom in you. We see this is focused on His name triumphing in His elect. That is His glory or the recreation of the new self through His name resting on His elect. What is the only thing that He ask of us? To come as we are! The law has been fulfilled in Christ. We approach God as law breakers. Where is our confidence when we are evil and God cannot accept evil? Its in Gods work done in our behalf. That is His name or authority in the only true representation of us in this new relationship.  How can a holy God fellowship with an unholy people? Only by the covenant of grace ..that being a seal that He will not deny Himself in His getting glory through us. And so we see the purpose of the law is to know that God provides the basis of His promise to renew and remake us. In this secure refuge He condescend to us in our freedom to come to Him as sinners. We give Him our sins and He establishes His kingdom within us. This is like the glory entering Jerusalem. When those gates are lifted up in victory our souls are lifted up by that name.    Reply Quote Notify

909  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The bible tells when life begins on: September 24, 2012, 11:14:27 AM cont.... I am simply going through Psalm 25 here... Out of all the Psalms Ive memorized this Psalm is the most personal and honest document that has ever been written in my opinion. We need to understand that there are evils that keep us always focused on a performance kind of life style. And we can live in this carnality without really thinking seriously about all that we have in Christ. So we do not understand how this new identity marks us with being able to recreate our past but rise up to have fellowship with Christ as we trust Him alone to make us new. So there are markers or reminders that identify this new path that we walk on. Because we find great opposition in growing in our new identity with Christ. And in thinking correctly we disarm this opposition. So we can go through life and have a very superficial understanding of our identity of God as our Father. And this is the reason that we never find a true refuge. As the apostle says your always needing to be fed the milk. When are you gonna go onto the meat? We can be middle age babies in grace. lol This is why Psalm 25 was written. To deal with the past. It is a masterpiece of learning how to think about how we can forget our old identity and dwell on our new identity. It is a Psalm that gives us a sure promise of God doing according to His name and it provides answers to our natural way of thinking in light of our propensity to spiral down .. as James talks about. At every voice of the old way of thinking ... at every turn it responds to that old way with the new medicine. Along with this teaching the Psalm is divided so that at the end we see a true transparency developed in the Psalmist in how he is led to unburden his soul. So this Psalm reorders the mind to think as God would have us think and in finding this enjoyment we feel free to cry to Him in the most honest way. This is how we grow in Christ and understand that power of His name. Reply Quote Notify

910  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The bible tells when life begins on: September 24, 2012, 10:44:30 AM There are enemies that we deal with that we can identify so that we are not shameful about our past. The bible is a book that describes Gods elect as people who have been delivered from great sins. And yet they are also people who find it hard to change. So what is the answer to us when we are reminded about our sin that we struggle with.. the sin that so easily besets us? If in fact we have been renewed then why do we still dwell in the past? There are a few reasons that we feel shameful even tho we have been saved from our past, present and future sins. This is why we need to dwell on what Christ has accomplished so that we are protected from three evils. The first evil is to lose hope, the second is to become anxious, and the third is to experience the loneliness of sin. These three evils force us to live in the past. Salvation is really going from a life of misery and loss to a life of hope. Hope is simply being protected from experiencing shame. If we lose hope then we waver in our faith. So God has described a way for us to be shielded from dwelling on our failure both past and present. He has said that when we are saved He gives us Himself. This is taking us out of our old identity or our old reputation and giving us His name. This name or power is His representation of us in our new identity. So its kind of like when the vampires are gonna do their evil and a cross is put up in front of them so they become powerless. Well we have these kind of curses that visit us. How do we protect our minds from going back to our old mindset of sin and corruption? We call upon the name of the Lord. Since God has promised to uphold His name in us then we have full rites as sons to appeal to God on the basis of that promise. But our lack of understanding makes us confused as to how we approach a holy God when we have offended Him by not doing as He commands. We have complete acceptance because of His name. So we simply begin this renewal of our minds by always approaching God according to His promise that He will protect us according to His promise that His name will always be the power to overcome all obstacles. What we must understand is that in being saved we have gone from being in a relationship in which God is angry with us because we violate His law to God giving us Himself in order for us to be accepted as completely righteous. And because of this promise to uphold His name in us we are free from not having hope, becoming anxious, and dwelling on that power of sin that we struggle with. How do we experience Gods power when in reality we do not always dwell in this hope of our salvation?  We must understand that God has taken us from a life where we were without hope because the law was our school master to a life where God relates to us even tho we still fail. In other words He has decided that instead of changing us completely where we measure up to His law, He rather fellowships with us who are weak. He has given us the ability to see real beauty in our dependency upon Him. Because we would not come to Him as we are if we always were confident in ourselves. So He has given us freedom when we experience weakness, sin, shame, and anxiety. These evils give us the desire to draw near to God. Ive got more to say... Reply Quote Notify

911  Forums / Theology Forum / Praying in the Spirit on: September 21, 2012, 05:57:46 PM Praying in the Spirit is growing in our desires before God as we address Him through His word. It is having a sense of mystery that we avoid our own words of wisdom and seek to address Him by submitting to His word. So the mystery is that what He has said in its simplicity is more powerful than what we can argue for in our own wisdom. The spiritual way is praying according to His word in which it speaks to us as we pray to Him. So in a sense God is telling us what to pray for not just in words but how He works in the unseen parts to change our desires. This is seeking Gods face. What is Gods face? Its His glory or its His exalted position of power that is transferred to us so that we experience this mysterious power of change. We address this as having Him shine the light of His glory in our face. He tells us in His word to desire this transaction. As Moses said... "Show me your glory" And the Lord responded ... "you cant see my glory ..you will die." But Moses pressed in on our God and said that Moses would not let God go until God passed before him. But what was the reason for Moses to appeal to God for this? Because Moses felt unworthy to lead Gods people. He did not have hope that he would be successful. So he wanted more than a promise. He wanted Gods presence to give him the confidence and the power to accomplish his task. This is how we grow in praying in the Spirit. We begin with words but then we experience His power. It is a refuge power. Any time this power attends our prayers we are confident that God will be our protection that we seek and He will always be there when we seek Him again. He promises never to leave us or forsake us. This light that shines in our faces is our having a sense of Gods glory shining over all the universe. It is like the universe is filled with Gods favor or grace. When we experience Gods glory we are released from our present tension. The power of God moves our desires and our physical bodies to real rest. We must understand that we experience this power but only for a short time and then we expand our desires for more of it. Its as if the whole universe becomes one purpose where God seems to emanate Himself like His desires are all going in one direction and all of time and space is swallowed up in God. This is our one desire that can not be satisfied in this life but we must seek it. Now we think if we understand truths about God that we can understand how to pray in the Spirit. But we must narrow all of this knowledge down to one desire. One desire that is taught to us by God being present in our communing with Him. This desire cannot be learned intellectually. We will not come to a small God. We will not come to a God who speaks from afar. We must have an experience when we pray to Him. This desire must grow stronger in us. All of who God is... the greatness of His glory... the brightness of His presence... the consoling of His love...the strong and sturdy understanding of His voice of faithfulness and the deep joy of His free love and grace to us must grow in this one desire. The reality of the christians relationship with the person of Christ is seen in the experience of this one desire.    Reply Quote Notify

912  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Extremism of Touching the Unclean Thing on: September 21, 2012, 05:06:25 PM Any time we change what God says about Himself and how He relates to us we touch the unclean thing. The spiritual virus is not believing that God is God. God has spoken and it is finished. His word is the only word in this world that can save our souls. The word of God is our daily news. It is a gospel that rings in our ears the good news that God has done the work and He will make all things new. How do we live by faith really rejoicing in His promises and in this alone being happy in God? We must learn to long for and to hear Him speak to us. Our faith must be strengthened. When we receive salvation we receive the power that raised Jesus from the dead. We have resurrection power. What is this resurrection power? Its being implanted with the word of salvation. Salvation is simply being delivered from the powers of this world and from the second death sting of the evil one. When we approach Gods word we approach it as if it is the final declaration on all that we accomplish.       No matter what the level of weakness or the lack of success in our accomplishments that word seals it for our good and rewards in heaven. Because the word of salvation recreates the loss and it proves us because of Christ work that is a louder success than our failure. The word of salvation is a battle cry from the Lord of Host that He will make our paths straight and level. The word of salvation is our future hope in this world. We trust in no other word. Our faith is only strengthened in the focus on Christ. When we fall back from hoping in His word we stumble. This means that we fail to take hold of Gods promises by, pleading them, training ourselves in His word like an Olympic athlete. The athlete trains for years so that he can have 20 minutes of success. This is how we are made. We are not living in a secular world but we create the healthy holistic view of the world by using the word as a cleansing agent for our souls and a weapon for our safety. Remove Reply Quote Notify

913  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Gods Love on: September 21, 2012, 04:36:01 PM God defines His relationship with us in order to make it impossible for other people to measure up to His love for us. In distinguishing between human love and divine love we find the personal connection in of Gods love for us. This is why we are given a gift of faith so that we believe in Gods standard of personal care in Gods absolute control over all things. If God is in someway limited in His acting according to His word then He is subject to our definition of love learned from other people. But we know that all of Gods sovereign acting in our lives as we understand how He loves us to be according to our trusting that His grace is defined by the goodness of His gifts to us. So by faith we apprehend this direct communication of His love according to that abundant goodness. Not only do we understand our value by God sovereign gifts to us but we learn what true freedom is. If in fact there is nothing that we have that has not been given to us by God then we must acknowledge that the smallest evidences of our value is acknowledging that God is thinking of us in every detail of our lives. There is nothing in our lives that we can list of what we have done or need to do can be accomplished if God does not first give it to us. There is no power, love, joy, peace, kindness, faithfulness that we possess that has not been given to us by God. If it is given then it is free. If it is free then we are most free to receive it and find nothing lacking by being made to feel helpless and dependent upon God. In this freedom we are most happy in God.  Remove Reply Quote Notify

914  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Church abuse on: September 17, 2012, 12:38:34 PM Love is not love if the relational connect is not put in Gods hand. Forgiveness is not forgiveness if that connection is not put in Gods hands...compassion is not compassion if that connection is not put in Gods hands. Because any other definition of human connection cheapens these words if God does not work first. And we live with a watered down idea of how God relates to us. This is why God says vengeance is mine says the Lord. He is not only saying that He is the only one who has the rite to ultimately judge man but He is setting the line of the standard of all of His attributes in light of His anger and justice. So God is saying there is no anger that can consume a man because if given to God it will be consumed by God. Now that is the ultimate love. In understanding Gods nature we cannot be controlled by sin and death. God has made a way for love and hate to meet together. God has conquered death. But at the same time He must do the work in His time and His way so we are always in danger of going faster than He wants. Reply Quote Notify

915	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: the Four Horsemen of the Revelation	on: September 17, 2012, 11:47:58 AM
The Revelation is a revealing of Christ who is the Lamb of God. It is a letter that gives us a glimpse into the eternal and timeless world. So it covers all events that have happened since the beginning of time. In this way we get a glimpse of the activity of these spiritual creatures as they respond the human governments and the events of this earth. In this way in thinking of time as a long succession of events connected together for one purpose we are seeing Christ order them from the heavens. We actually are given a description of our future life in glory. We get consumed in the view that all the events of this earth are leading to being fulfilled in Christ. So we are as it were sitting at nite gazing up into the second heaven and pondering the greatness of our Creator. But the Revelation goes beyond our view of heaven ...behind the door to describe the third heaven so that our logical understanding of reality is to think about these beings that travel from heaven to earth... from the third heaven to thru the second heaven into the reality of what we call time. These horses connect the purposes of God in how He works in to bring all things under His control in dealing with human governments. In this way God shows that through the language of the bible there is a kind of mirror of a chain of command from how we experience these things on the earth. So in this sense the wisdom of revelation is to create the reality that God is near as the revealing through His word is near. We must understand that the throne of God is visible in a spiritual view since all the earth , under the earth, in the sea and everywhere in His creation is giving Him glory. This view of Gods throne is how we know and seek to glorify Him in our view of living in the light of that glory. So we get a snap shot of God on His throne in His working through His created beauty that surrounds His throne of all that He has brought about through His creation of all of time as He is seated as the ruler of all things on His throne. Together with all His creation we give Him praise for who He is. Ive memorized a lot of scripture in my life but these chapts describing the throne and the activity... the nature of God... the visible beauty.. the brightness of His glory... the heavenly beings... and the contrast between the space of time as opposed to eternity ...in the symmetry and beauty of a written document is the most      916  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Gods Love on: September 16, 2012, 12:53:58 PM Gods love is eternal. So He never changes. But God loves us so that we are dependent upon Him. And dependence is a reality where we come to Him as undeserving and our feelings of weakness are overwhelmed by just how good He is. This is how He enlarges our heart. All of the weeping and asking are always answered with His eternal love. For without the cause of our good being defined by the greatness of His love then we would always feel unworthy and hopeless. If we were to be loved as God is then we would be swallowed up and consumed. God loves us by condescending to us in His timing. In a sense our faith is tried by God proving through our trials that He loves us in a greater way than what could have happened. We understand this as God loving us directly through this always being good to us when we do not deserve it. We are involved in this ongoing creation as always finding reasons to extol God. Because He reminds us of His love by always answering us according to our need. But God uses our trials for the purpose of making us worship Him when He responds as tho we cannot find a reason for Him answering us when we were being tried. This is the sweetness of gloating in our success before Him. He actually produces a big gulf of need in our hearts and then fills it by His grace alone. So that we know that He alone is good. When God moves us to rejoice in Him that desire is the closest we will experience to entering fully into His rest. Sometimes we do not understand what God has done for us. Until we come to Him and begin to open our hearts to Him because He has answered our prayers then we understand the depth of His grace. This is when our hearts are drawn to heaven. And we begin to feel a kind of separation from our bodies. God draws us to heaven in this experience of His undeserved love. Remove Reply Quote Notify 917  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Creating Spiritual Reality on: September 16, 2012, 11:37:43 AM The metaphysical world is these invisible enemies to the recreation. So there is creation as opposed to secularism. Its worldly secularism or christian secularism. There is a kind of logical word formation about the doctrine of sin. Sin really is a corruption of the whole man. This corruption is the redefinition of righteousness. As Pilot asked.. what is truth? It cannot be defined in any man other than the God-Man.  Sin has brought corruption and disease of the soul. Its really the corruption of sin and not the act itself because the causes are the miss representation of man by a false image. In Gods definition of sin it has brought death and destruction as an image ... a sting...man is intrinsically evil. And we find this sting in the context of a scorpion which is a threat or curse upon man. Its easy to describe this as a weight of sorrow. So when we are talking about sin its in the context of a personality of righteousness in the refuge wisdom. In other words God will not crush the bruised. God spreads His tent.. or His image over our lives in light of His gifting us with His Spirit. So the weight of sorrow.. the disease of the soul is a strong word of destruction. Its a pronouncement of a curse. Christ has given us the word of life .. a word of salvation to answer the threats of the destructive image. We are not just talking about the presence of sin and temptation but we are talking about the threat of evil words that war against our souls to kind of sting us. You know you have a weakness and then it is exposed and magnified and the weight of the false image is like a sting. This means the word is not just a reminder but its actually a weapon that curses the curses.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 918  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Creating Spiritual Reality on: September 16, 2012, 11:05:21 AM Personality is simply a definition of the words of God. Because God forms mans heart by His word. Train up a child in the way he should go... or the way of the wise ...according to His wisdom...having the personality formed by God. As opposed to the personality of the world not just a behavioral modification paradigm. The personality of the world is pressing in on individuals. So the world is like an evil man. That being they go in the way of covenant breaking. Or they go in the way of the adulterous.  Its not the evil as an act but its an image of a meta physical disease. So this really is not necessarily sex crazed behavior but its hardness of heart by secularism. The personality of the world is like a companion present at all time. The personality is expressed by a description. Its an image that we are described by. Any image that we entertain that is not motivated to Christ centeredness is a virus image. The apostle talks about this as having imaginations that exalt man. What we need to understand that our metaphysical health is in the context of a culture of words and these are like forced motives that mold us to accept these weights of sorrow. So the personality of the world creates in us a disease.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 919  Forums / Theology Forum / Creating Spiritual Reality on: September 16, 2012, 10:39:45 AM This thread is gonna be the one where people are gonna read and say.."what did he say?" I am gonna write about metaphysical things that are contained on the inside of man. So all of the active responses when we think about doing something good or achieving a goal are gonna be discussed in creating an idea and understanding the inner conflict. I believe that we are metaphysical beings who have abilities to think about ourselves as an image of who we are that controls our disposition. But at the same time we must understand that this is in the context of spiritual disease. And so we must recreate our image understanding our being in danger of catching a meta physical virus that i describe as a weight of sorrow. This weight of sorrow in this context of discussion  that i am dealing with is at the meta physical level. So the disease is a wrong understanding of who we are in light of miss judging the the danger of accepting this weight through not understanding who we are in the context of our strengths and weaknesses. We must understand that we are primarily moved by spiritual motives and images. So the goal of being fully engaged in this art of creating future spiritual reality is to narrow our focus down to one thing. This one thing we seek. We are seeking to be most happy in the image of Christ. The most created image of Christ is at our highest worship and adoration of Him.  We are trying to create an understanding of ourselves so that our motives are pure in how we deal with the different metaphysical weights both negative and positive.  The christian life is something that creates us in our creating an image about us. I think this is the way we avoid the disease of the evil image. I hope to expound on this meta physical discussion of how to create who we are and how we view reality before us.   Reply Quote Notify 920  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: X-calvanism by Dainel Gracely on: September 16, 2012, 07:16:28 AM Quote from: Jeffrey on September 05, 2012, 02:50:07 PM I am not sure that Calvinism as a system is one that accepts all scripture. Unless I am way short of understanding what its tenets are in full. For instance, the Calvinists I know speak over and over of God dictating every act that has or ever will take place. Yet hundreds and hundreds of passages of scripture speak of our responsibilities to choose to do things, to make choices. God's sovereignty is in the same short verse with man's responsibility many times. I think its possible, and I admit I am no expert, that folks came up with their definition of what sovereignty means, and then make sure to interpret scripture or to describe the ways of God to fit that description. Picture two islands on the sea. On one island lives a king. He dictates each and every action of each and every inhabitant. He ordains each act and thought that will happen ahead of time. Thats an extremely simple picture of how my Calvinist friends describe the doings of God regarding our doings. On this other island is a king. He has stated what e does and will do. He has stated what it is that he commands the inhabitants to do. He has stated what he will do if they do not. He has a very strong influence on them, as strong as he desires, but they may choose to disobey and face the consequences, and everyone does just that. Now sonme will say under these circumstances that second king is not sovereign. His people do not do everything he has commanded them to do. But I point out that this king has stated that he will ultimately judge and enact his judgement in response to the choices to disobey and reject him. His ultimate judgement establishes his sovereignty and shows it to be undeniable. But I do wrestle with all this stuff. I just don't think that Calvinism is a system that gets it right. I think also that much of what classic arminiism holds is not right either. I would never identify myself with any theological system because none are capable of encompassing scripture and dang if every theologian who says "let scripture inform your theology, never let your theology inform how you interpret scripture" doesn't do that second thing. Time and time again I have read or heard someone with a specific identity with a theological system, who usually demonstrates pretty sound interpretive skills, commit an egregious error in t he interpretation of a passage because its the only way to make it fit their theological system. Im confused because if God is God how does He allow you to have a certain control over His creation? I mean what is your definition of total dependence? This is where we need to understand the fundamental biblical idea of resting in Christ. If we have the ability to function in a small amount of autonomy would it be correct to say that going our way is ok so God allows us to avoid the dangers of thinking we are important enough when we go in our own direction? In other words because we are free to choose there is no danger in choosing something that God allows in a healthy way as long as it is a reason for us to think we are free. It would seem to me that our fundamental problem is described as straying because of our freedom. Isnt this autonomy the reason of how we measure carnality? I mean if God has spoken isnt that the final word? Or do we have freedom to think there might be a chance in the context of defending ourselves as we describe our own ability to choose as a safe way to interpret Gods authority in what He has said about His control through His word? It would seem to me that if God has said that He is in control of all things by His word that would be the fundamental reason that we trust that we are free from thinking there is virtue in our rite to choose. Reply Quote Notify 921  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: the Four Horsemen of the Revelation on: September 16, 2012, 06:44:04 AM In the account of the four horses and then the 200 million having horses and riders is in the context of the description of the structure of society. This language is not in the context of military advancement but is ot conquest language describing how a society unravels. These horses represent the moral component in how governments rule their own people. In this context God is opposing these evil rulers. So the next great event will be when God opens the heavens to judge men who have turned society upside down. God seals His people through divine protection. I do not think it is necessarily being completely free of the threats of these evil kings but from the final eternal judgment. This conflict is in the context of God as Father persevering His elect from being destroyed internally and being rewarded in heaven. This is why you have this description of Christ and the heavenly creatures using ot language how God carries out His final judgement upon evil governments and the sins of society that threaten His rule over the earth. So you read about the this design from heaven to earth. The four beast are described like a lion, ox,face like a man, flying eagle. The lion is ruling authority, the ox is the power to carry out the work necessary to bring men to judgment, the face like a man was the incarnation, and the flying eagle is Gods Fatherly care to reward His elect. "He will spread His tent over them, no longer will they hunger..etc." These creatures work to bring this to its end. Then you have Christ who is described as having 7 eyes ...the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. Which is His work described in the seven seals and the seven trumpets. He is the Shepherd who leads His people to springs of living water or He perseveres His people in these judgments. The context of this conquest is all the inhabitants of the earth in conflict with Gods heavenly forces. The kings of the earth, princes, generals, every freeman and slave etc... in other words there is no position in society that will escape Gods final judgement. And then you see the description of the 200 million people in the context of sin dominating the culture... the rest of mankind did not repent of the worship of demons, of idols made of  ...etc. Nor did they repent of their murders, magic arts , sexual immorality and their thefts. So we are seeing here a description of the personality of an evil society that God opposes and brings those people to judgement. And it includes physical threats and violence.   I need to meditate on these 5 chapts a little more before moving to the next one.   Reply Quote Notify 922  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Salvation experiences in the Bible on: September 09, 2012, 01:59:23 PM Salvation is an experience. But an experience is not something we can explain. And this is how our message gets muddled in moral qualifications. So in talking to other people and in thinking of salvation as being personal there is a question about how we feel about the direction the conversation of presenting the gospel is going. We always are trying to make the message understandable. So we do not talk about the salvation experience as feeling change in us.I think the reason is because its not easy for us to exalt grace. Its not easy for us to acknowledge to a person that all of our learning since we got saved does not make us better than those who do not know. So its easy for us to talk like we have matured and can explain salvation as if we know more about life than a person who is not saved. So we think if we talk about the feeling part that its not gonna give that person something solid to accept. It is so hard for us to just acknowledge that if not for the grace of God there go I. So in a sense the message of salvation should be like medicine. Salvation is in the context of how we react to the problems of other people. Its taking on the sorrow as if it was ours. Its consoling people who are in sin. Its desiring an experience in talking to people. Our dependence upon grace is greater than our ability to explain salvation as if we have arrived. Reply Quote Notify 923  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Voice of God on: September 07, 2012, 07:34:43 PM God is so big that when we hear Him speak He gives us the ability to listen. So i think Gods voice comes to us so profound and mysterious that in some ways we are shielded from the negative effects of our weaknesses. I think some people make God out to be someone who who guides us by force. Like He is watching us with His arms folded on His stomach shaking His head and saying "I told you so."But God is big enough to give us freedom and cheer us along the way as His drawing us talking to us so that He can show us how much He loves us. So He is really not even saying ... "Look child I gave you the means why didnt you take advantage of them?" This is what is odd about us. We think God is disconnected from us in communicating what He wants us to know. And so we lower God by making Him change according to our wants and how we live in our circumstances. But the reality is that God is always the same. He does not react. We are always changing and inconsistent. We actually think that we can make God miserable. Some one will say if God is always the same and we are changing then how can God connect with us since He sees things totally different from us? Some people teach that God approaches us in the same way every time. They say "Bro... God is real." man... If you want to get in His club your gonna need for Him to stamp your hand with "I am a sinner and you will make me good." lol And so God is kind of like the bouncer who enforces the rules. lol God is kind of like the guy who has the battery on his shoulder and dares anyone to knock it off. lol But God doesnt need to prove how tough He is. After all He made man and He knows us inside and out at all times. He controls the hearts of kings like the stream of the waters. If God actually directs mens steps then how can we think lesser of His intentions in how He talks to us? This is why Gods way of communicating to us is beyond our ability to figure out what He actually is saying in how we walk. God really does believe that we have abilities to choose in freedom and He likes our choices. Since God has made us with an ability to reason about another person as to why we do not like that persons choice of colors because we have preferences then God must respect these since He said that what He made was all good. So God must form us in a way that is different from other people in order for Him to deal with us in truth. So God must be true at all times in light of who we are as sinners and as individuals. If God is so much better than we are then in order for Him to meet us where we are at He must condescend to us as proving Himself as all that we need where we are at. Because God is so big He can talk to us in a way through reminding us that He is as good as He promised. If God is free to do as He pleases then we are free in knowing Him. So in some ways God hangs out with us as to how we feel about ourselves when we are alone. If God has promised us that He will be gentile, loving, long suffering, faithful, kind, and gracious, then He must meet His high standard in a way of communicating with us as always proving to us that He does not change. So He must always say to us "Ask Me and I will prove it to you." In order for us to know His standard He must act towards us in our performance as always being surprised at the least effort. So that all of our spiritual activity super abounds good to us. God speaks in a way that is to good for us to imagine.   Reply Quote Notify 924  Forums / Main Forum / Re: 30 principles for living on: September 03, 2012, 03:30:26 PM If you look the apostle tells us to sing Psalms, Hymns and spiritual songs as we order our lives , consequently talking to wives, husbands, work place, and government. Why does the apostle not offer principles of success? Because usually our principles lead us to a life of self protection. We naturally use principles of success for self reasons. Are we taught in scripture that the wise way of living is to do certain things in order to avoid trouble? And if we are going through trouble that is Gods way of getting us to grow? Look at the way our society has gone. The more money and profits we make the more we spend. lol The more successful the religious movements are the less connection it has to the fundamental needs of society. The point is that any time you have success there is a philosophy involved. So just because its success does not mean its something we can trust in to follow as holistically christian. The bible also talks about getting entangled in this world. We know that anytime we have a standard there is always a need to judge. What is so dangerous about developing a system that is successful? Because the world is naturally divided by a class struggle. A class struggle is not necessarily about money. Its really any kind of prejudice we have against other people. And the way we become prejudice is through principles. They can even be moral principles. lol The the system of man is a system of principles the a person uses to protect himself from any threat to his view of the world. This is what the apostle was saying that he practiced as a Pharisee. He put men in groups. How did the apostle come to the realization that there was no distinction between rich and poor etc? He denounced any teaching that was not Christ centered. He really did not say that there was something he learned as a Pharisee that gave him an advantage after he was saved. He said that he considered all of his learning, all of his position as rubbish... as poo poo. lol So i think the apostle is going farther than the common grace -special grace thinking and saying that his learning as a pharisee was practiced by the motive of coveting. In other words all of these principles were his way of creating an idol. So that in seeing men not according to this world he had to denounce his own principles of success. Reply Quote Notify 925  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: X-calvanism by Dainel Gracely on: September 03, 2012, 08:07:22 AM Calvinism is simply the full acceptance of all of scripture. So that it goes beyond the mere exegetical intent of learning by stating that God is even sovereign over what we do not know. This means that when we come to His word we do not know exactly what kind of change in us is gonna take place from one day to the next. We dont know the depth of that change or the effect that is around us that the word creates. With this kind of submission we really are laying aside an idea of our past experience. The bible calls this a new song in the morning. And its the same thinking about our sin. We do not really understand the depth of evil that we live in. We dont know evil on a cellular level. We cannot read the thoughts of men. Even tho we are able to judge our own evil actions yet we are weak at being able to distinguish all of the reasons how our sorrow affects the evil. We are always looking at this through a clouded glass.. easily overly judgmental about things we do not understand in a clear way about ourselves and others. God is sovereign over our inability to please Him in a correct judgement of ourselves.  Because we are weak and sinful we are always short sighted about the potential of good that awaits us. We do not experience longings that are equal to Gods ability to make all things good. God has left us with all His promises that He will be faithful to the end. But our problem is we do not live with the hope anticipation that He will do as He promised. So in God being God He must not only tell us but He must order all the events and everything about us so that we will not become disheartened. He must lead us to Himself as if He grabs us by the hand and pulls us from one hope to another. Reply Quote Notify 926  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Law, when? on: September 03, 2012, 07:05:19 AM "Never the less death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses.. even over those who did not sin by breaking the commandment as did Adam who was a pattern of the one to come. The context of this is Adams representation of his offspring. Adam is the federal head of the human race. Basically in my own words the scripture is teaching that God decided to deal with man in a relationship rather than the context of the law. First because without the law God would not be God. So the law is not simple a rule to judge the outward compliance. But it judges the motives as well. This is why you cant take this out of the context of one man representing all the rest of mankind. Actually that principle in itself is dealt with when it says that the fathers sins are visited upon the children but at the same time each man is responsible for his own sin. The apostle is not lessening the response of one law for one violation but he is saying that one violation of the command is the same thing is violating all of the commands. I do not think the apostle is saying that what we do not know we are not responsible for. Because we are looking at this on a much larger scale as how God relates to His creation and the formation of society. We must understand that the law was established in the foundation of the earth. It was how God planned to create before He actually did the work. So we are talking about something that goes beyond one command spoken to a man and we are seeing it established in the symmetry of the creation that is all around us. This is why God goes beyond the simple command and what looks like compliance to judge the intents of all of mans hearts but every thought they think. So the apostle is saying that one violation of the command brought the same consequences upon the whole human race as if all the commands were violated. Hes going beyond the mere outward conformance and talking about it as a thought creation of an odd shape. Or its a spiritual disease.. a cell that is cancerous.  You cant make death any worse than dieing. lol So the apostle is saying that man through the sin of Adam has which begins at birth misses the mark of law keeping. And its the same picture of man going astray from birth. How does man go astray? He will not give God the glory that God deserves. So not only are mans thoughts toward idols but his motives are to remove God. Because God has made man a social being then man in rejecting God begins to destroy himself and his neighbor. Reply Quote Notify 927  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Reformed Doctrine on: September 03, 2012, 06:21:58 AM http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=83012059302 Remove Reply Quote Notify 928  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Beginning resolution of OSAS/YCLYS on: September 01, 2012, 11:56:05 AM b2 Just like you have been showing how the NC was induced in the individual through regeneration so the OC members received the benefits of salvation through regeneration. I think ive been explaining this and more than just the sacrifices. In fact in order to be saved we must look away from all human agencies and all other means to be regenerated. So they had to look away from the sacrifices and to the coming Redeemer. Regeneration is simply receiving new life through the implanted word of God. The word of God is a created word. It reorders all the events in this world. There is only one hope of salvation. It is through the spoken word of God. When we are regenerated we are implanted with the word of life or Gods promise to save us through speaking to us His word of salvation. So in trusting in Christ we are trusting in every word that comes out of the mouth of God. All the words narrow down to one word. The word of salvation. How does this word actually work in us? It convicts us and converts us. The word of God kills our old wills in regeneration. It overcomes all powers of resistance in us. Because in being implanted with the word of God we are not just given a new will but we are implanted with new spiritual desires or senses. These desires are made so that we seek this word of salvation through being pleased with Christ. We look into His word and we are enlightened, it revives us, makes us wise, gives light to our eyes, and it recreates our future to be eternally successful. I believe this is kind of like a natural succession in our focus. We read His word and its like a light comes on, then we are revived , which a longing that cannot be satisfied, then He begins to recreate our thoughts to be in line with His word, then we are able to apply it to our lives, the view that is long term, and then we pray as we focus more and more on this successful reality so that we know His will that cannot be thwarted. Reply Quote Notify 929  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Spiritual Experiences on: September 01, 2012, 11:15:50 AM The throne of God is the view of His beauty of the created order. That view is the reflection in a timeless sense of all of His acts in creation and sustaining the universe. When we view the throne we see it unveiled in its glorious view. This is the direct connection to the events being worked out in this world. God is eternal and is not subject to time. All of the symmetry and beauty is visible in looking at God on His throne. We are seeing one thing but it works out in multifaceted events in time that is veiled. When we approach God in worship He is on His throne as all glorious with the view of all of time in the gaze of the throne. So that all of creation.. created beings are giving glory to God. The view of God surrounded by the unveiled beauty of His creation and creatures is the unveiled look at His power, wealth , wisdom , and strength , honor , glory and praise. Not only do we view this symmetry but we are under the influence so to speak so that we are consumed by this glorious view. The reason that God does not have a view as we see now is because He is separated from the corruption of the earth. So we find that there is a disconnection from this earth in how we view beauty and symmetry when we think of real beauty. How can we look at the throne of God and still be in this world in the reality of our minds? Its because God is really not processing the events of this world but He is eternally present in the beauty as He is separated from this corruption. So God is recreating the world through the means that He has ordained .. primarily through word and Spirit. In our natural longings we are gazing into spiritual reality to recreate this earth.    Remove Reply Quote Notify 930  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Law, when? on: September 01, 2012, 10:55:53 AM I would not distance the relationship we have a citizens in this world from the original sin taught in the bible. And really we live as relational creatures in our own minds. So to distance original sin from how we interact on a horizontal and vertical level is to in some ways teach ourselves to think in a divided way. Remember this that the difference between us and the world is our ability to process truth as a holistic healthy view of the world as opposed to those in sin who are blinded not having the ability to see all the truth that is necessary to understand real relational connection. So in thinking about Adams sin we believe we have a very simple problem because the solution is simple. lol This is why there is so much neurosis in this world because its an effort to expand the areas of weakness that sort of creates a different monster. So in the dissecting of real causes we are talking about a war of attrition to developing a holistic understanding of the definition of a healthy world view. But without free access to a holy God there really is not hope. This where we get really weird. Its because we try to think with our own understanding rather than allow God to tell us He has accomplished so that we rest on that. We are always making an effort to appease God.. try to ascend to Him. But the gospel is God coming down to us.