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961	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: FAITH defined	on: August 11, 2012, 07:06:09 PM
Faith is built on hope. But hope is not something we can possess by thinking things are gonna be better. This hope breaks through time and space. We used to say that a person who plays the game of football was great because he rose up above the game when he was in the middle of the game. In other words the game tension did not affect his general attitude about the success that would translate into his total focus on making the play. Its sort of like standing outside of oneself and seeing how human nature is lacking without His power. Its being in the experience of the total unity of being confident in the middle of the game that there is one purpose in your mind of everyone else purpose. So we can say that hope transcends time and the tension of the circumstance. So when we say that hope breaks into time we are saying that a mind filled with hope a kind of awakening that he knows there is gonna be success because he is experiencing it before it happens. And so this hope is infectious. This is what saving faith is like. It is a trust that strikes the heart with hope. It is like being awakened with a sense of joy and exuberance because you experience the abundant life of Christ. Christ is more than just an argument to trust but He is all in all. So this trust is in the eternal Christ. He is all powerful.. present every where... His confidence becomes your confidence. This trust is supernatural. In your mind you experience it is breaking through as transparency of time meeting eternity.
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962  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Re-forming reformed theology on: August 11, 2012, 05:55:16 PM But Kk thinks he understands God without actually listening to every word. And so God can be accessed through miss understandings of what He is trying to say to us. And yet how hard is it for us if we are listening to other people who swear they have heard God tell them that their sins are holding them back from the super deep relationship. lol But the whole point of trying to listen to God is so that we will hear Him accept us when we sin. lol Its the same kind of experience when you first were looking for a life partner to listen to you and you understand what they were saying. But you know how hard that was. You met someone and you thought that he or she was the one. But then as the relationship began to grow you realized that it was not going to go on because there was a problem with what they thought was important and what you really liked. And it was not a natural fit. Why is it that we do not see God in a chemistry way? Why do we assume that God is different than the closest person to us? Why do we assume that Gods standards are so high that He has a different level of acceptance. So we assume that its almost impossible to know God but that person we met is nice and we get fulfilled by growing in the relationship. Because we really havent listened to God. We havent desired just one word from Him. We havent developed a longing for each word. The words are not sweet to us. So God is not as important to us as the person that we have met after looking for awhile and because they have this special connection with us we dont think that God is like that. You see how easily people are able to stiff arm God. They talk about the person they love with more intense emotions than God. Now hows come that is? Reply Quote Notify

963  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 11, 2012, 05:28:36 PM You guys are in a box. I really do not experience a lack of assurance. I do not believe we ever are what we should be. But God is available to make us more like we should be. So grace is not something that gives us entrance into salvation but its provided for us so that nothing can limit Gods availability to us and the reality that He has more than we could ever imagine. What i am getting here is a number of limits or reasons why God will not be faithful to His promises. This is why i just do not like two line theology. Because it is not a Hebrew way of thinking. Why is it that Gentiles do not stick together in society because they not only have a religious connection but because they are the Nt equivalent of the ot Jew. This is what is so interesting to me that we do not associate the culture of Judaism with the culture of the NT church. But yet the Jews still stick together even tho there is no pure ot culture. I think the reason is because we divide the gospel up when we say that a lack of works makes God start counting our sins and using methods to try to control our laziness. lol. But the only way that we are gonna be more faithful is if God is faithful. This is exactly what the ot focuses on in order to create unity and purify the people. The holiness is being set apart as an individual with different gifts that are only made to flourish as they are stirred up by God condescending to the people to show them who He is. But with two line we are taught to think in a divided way. We are taught to look at our own faithfulness that proves that God is faithful. There is no where in the ot where this kind of thinking is taught. Rather we are taught that God saves us by placing us under His name or authority. But a two liner looks at this and they conclude that God is offended because His name is dragged through the mud because we do not have the works to prove it and we have ongoing sin. But the point of our being in Gods family is to access Gods Fatherly relationship to us. But two line lowers this sovereign ability of God to work through grace to make sinners acceptable only because God is faithful. The name of God is really His desire to make us who fail to be His choicest examples. If you do not really believe in grace then your assurance will never be the reason that you enjoy this relationship.    Reply Quote Notify

964  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 10, 2012, 06:24:57 PM Quote from: Joker on August 10, 2012, 06:12:28 PM Hmm.  That "God's gifts are irrevocable" quote in context (Romans 11) is Paul saying that the Jews are still His elect, chosen people.  Just sayin'.... So I guess Joker knows there were no proselytes in the ot when Israel was in captivity. Cause obviously Joker is talking about nationality rather then relationship. If God grafts Gentiles into the vine its obviously that the gifts of the covenant of grace are irrevocable. Unless you think it is just about physical circumcision and nationality. Reply Quote Notify

965  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 10, 2012, 04:44:20 PM Well actually i write kind of like someone who experiences grace. So im not one to write without being a bit cathartic. lol I try to write so if someone is reading they feel like i am speaking to their heart. So i dont think its wrong to write like your at a business meeting but when i see the way the conversation is going i try to write in a way that is different as an argument to feel a sense of the personal side of it in showing how the other side is presented like it was canned. lol But i still was writing about the subject your discussing. I just like to address it in a personal way. Cause i really believe that Calvinism is a heart language and then you have a placebo. So its kind of like the difference between a business meeting in presenting your argument as opposed to something that is new and fresh.  Reply Quote Notify

966  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 10, 2012, 04:18:25 PM I think if you go back and read my responses you will see that i am clearly poking holes in Jokers responses. I am doing it with telling you verses in their proper context since i know the clear line of grace.  And im doing it with 30 years of memorization. So if you want to know where i am getting my material read scripture carefully not just looking at it in jumping around. Scripture has a context. So its inaccurate to say that the doctrines of grace are not clearly put forth when you put those verses in their proper context. Ive memorized whole passages. Im not one to jump around. I promise you that i am genuinely putting these concepts in the context of the entire bible. I am really looking at the text in my mind. Reply Quote Notify

967  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 10, 2012, 04:01:53 PM Quote from: morning listener on August 10, 2012, 03:57:55 PM Brother MBG, I am not ignoring you as much as noticing that you are sort of orbiting the discussion with some of your presuppositions and general dissertations about - I think - Calvinist positions. I am not normally one for forcing people to reduce their thinking to basic statements and building blocks but in your case it might help. OSAS, yes or no? why? Ive decided not to be one who seems to stand outside of the bible and have my own reasons why its true or false. I have not written any thing as a quote from Calvin. I simply have written from the text of scripture that i have memorized. Im really not here to please anyone. I am simply here to tell the truth about what it says in the bible. If you look at my writing for the last 7 yrs you will see that it has been all scripture. I really have not slipped up about grace. Loose lips sink ships. lol Reply Quote Notify

968  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 10, 2012, 03:50:26 PM Yes election would be dependent upon man if faith was a natural quality in man. But what is saving faith? It certainly is not human faith. Everyone practices human faith. You could not live a very good quality of life without trusting in things you do not test consistently. But this other faith .. this faith that is in God alone is not natural to man. If in fact men reject God then they show they do not have a trust in God. But the bible does not say that Gods grace is limited to one aspect of the spiritual transformation of a person. But that any thing that is transferred from God to a person is by grace alone. All of the gifts.. all of the worldly enjoyments... all of the spiritual qualities are given freely by God. If they were not then grace would not be grace. There is either all or nothing in grace. Because anything that is not of grace is earned. But in order that we would not be tempted to take the glory for ourselves God has provided this redemption by grace alone. And so it is fully completed in God alone. When we are saved we receive a faith that is gifted to us by grace so that in glorifying God it is expressed in our dependency on Him for everything.   Reply Quote Notify

969  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 10, 2012, 02:47:25 PM One of the reasons I do not accept that God holds us accountable after we are saved without first giving us the ability is because God is not destructive. And we can define sin as abusive on principle. So God must know beforehand who are cursed because that is the most effective way to protect the blessed. Let me say that in a sense everyone gets immune to abuse at some level. This is why God curses men. Because the smallest departure from grace is rebellion against His kingdom. You look in the garden. What was so destructive about Satans temptation? He simply left out some of the words. And yet it was the most abusive intent that has ever been perpetrated on mankind. So really abuse is not something that happens in an outward since but its a thought that strays from Gods grace. A lot of people do not consider how effective evil is when it is developed and contrived against other people. It is not something that we quickly identify in other people. But yet abuse is seen in the guilt one carries ... or the underlying anger and control in a person that comes out in lashing out at someone. So inside of us all is not just the tendency to practice sin but its to excuse ourselves from any destructive intent without applying it to grace. And ive come to believe in this world people just expect to struggle with abuse in some form. But the bible gives us protection by teaching us grace. Because grace is not just to take care of sin but its to show us how God loves us with a single intent to protect us. This is why the fundamental doctrine of inability is the logical response to sin in its intent to destroy. Without receiving all the grace and mercy that our Father has we move the bar lower in what is the definition of abuse. Reply Quote Notify

970  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Re-forming reformed theology on: August 07, 2012, 03:33:03 PM The law is spiritual in this sense. It upholds Gods right to punish evil men who are said in scripture to be law breakers. God makes is clearly evident when they cross the line to destroy other people that they have violated His law. So in this sense the law protects the poor and helpless when it is upheld in justice. Because God distinguishes the gods of the earth from the helpless and poor. God considers a man as proud in how he rules other people. When God speaks its really not from Mt Sinai but its from heaven. lol What is this position of God about? Obviously the ot is a teaching about God being present on the earth. Well if God was contained in the ot Theocracy then He would be ruling from the Mountain. But if you look God is eternal and His subjects are from all generations. God who is eternal before the creation of the world established His statutes, decrees, laws, promises,commands etc in eternity to be put into effect without one small comma being out of order in His working out all things in time. So we see that His counsel is more than just on a tablet but its in His power, wealth, wisdom and strength , honor glory and praise. So we see that Gods ruling from eternity is beyond time or a nation. When we are confronted with the covenant of works as the laws we acknowledge that we cannot do them. In approaching God we have already been declared righteous and we no longer are obligated to try to approach His as law keepers. So the law does not really drive us to Christ in a slave way but it provides the basis of our knowing that we are unable to be righteous in ourselves. But grace is a favor promised to us apart from the works of the law. Its given to us through Gods unfailing love. Let me say something here since ive prayed these Psalms for years. And if any one who has memorized the whole book and prayed it can testify there is a sense in which we climb up to heaven. We actually fellowship with our Father and feel like a son. In presenting our arguments to Him with full confidence that Christ is able then we are blessed with His sweet Spirit who is our comforter. We can actually climb up in His arms through our cries and be lost for awhile in wonder.    Reply Quote Notify

971  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Extremism of Touching the Unclean Thing on: August 07, 2012, 01:01:04 PM Lets go through this teaching of the apostle. As you see there is a great war going on in this world between men. But we are always going to extremes. So we say this is the age of grace. God doesnt have a particular earthly system that He rules from so there is a distinct separation between Gods work and governments. Its very easy to tweak a truth here and there. And some people hide behind the systematic way of going through the bible. All of this thinking in this nt way is like the teaching of the greek gods. Except its not through created ideas but rather secular speech. This new philosophy is more systematic. Its built on the idea of democracy. Its focused on the different authorities and their limits in working within the system. Because we do not take the whole bible in place the nt words in that context we divide up the life of the christian into these different democratic societies. So orthodoxy is a mixture of historical accuracy with the nt system of democracy. This is what the apostle was facing. They told him that there were certain behaviors that should identify a christian. And the apostle responded that all things were acceptable but that he would not be controlled by any. Then they told him there were certain important people in positions of power that could enforce his organizational success. The apostle said that he did not know men according to the flesh. lol Then they told him that a certain behavior was necessary for salvation. The apostle responded with Cursed be anyone who does not preach the gospel of grace. So we see that the gospel is an ot proclamation that Christ rules men not according to a system of government or according to the success of an organization but from the heavens. The more we show that the gospel is from a covenant ot relationship to Gods people the more clear we are gonna see this greek mindset.   Remove Reply Quote Notify

972  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Re-forming reformed theology on: August 07, 2012, 12:34:00 PM In regeneration we are promised to begin a life of renewal by the Holy Spirit. The bible calls this renewal being transformed by the renewing of our minds. So we are set apart from the world as temples of the living God in which God dwells by His Spirit. But what are we being renewed from? When we are renewed we are going through a change of thinking then feeling then acting. The apostle says that we died to sin and we live to Christ. But the death of sin is also an ongoing process. This death is the old curse that we experienced when we were under the law and its condemnation. The law ruled over us like a school master. The reason that we thought this relationship was normal was because we thought if we met the standards of the law  that we would be accepted. But this process of the law as our school master only led us to a life of servitude and slavery to other people. Because we did not understand our psychological profile with the law then we were neurotic towards others. Some of us were stoic. But this curse was like being marked with disease. The curse of the law overshadowed our happiness. We were controlled by the principle of the flesh. Its like being in a box and not being able to bust out of it. No matter how hard we tried to keep the law the more we found it condemning us. It was a curse of misery. But when we were regenerated that death curse was lifted. We received new life. We went from being diseased with sin and the law to being made free and revived. Now this was too good to be true. How can a person go from having a permanent scar on their face to having a new beautiful face? How can we go from experiencing the pain of the curse of death to being revived and full of life? It just doesnt seem to be that easy the way the world works. And so we begin to hear new ideas and explanations about this secret work that happens in us. We go from a simple slave relationship to the law to hearing spiritual ideas and forming concepts about things we cannot see. This is where it gets confusing. Because we have been made free from the curse of the law and death and we are now blessed. But now we face an opposition. Now we have confidence that no one understands. Now they see two people sort of. They see the person who is prospering in faith and they see the person who is confused about the old relationship of the curse. This is why i believe that mortification or dying to the old life is identifying the process of the curse of the law within us. How do we identify it? Through the covenant of grace spoken to us by the transforming of our minds. We are told who we are and we become like Christ. But most of us only stop at the teaching. But we do not reject what is wrong. That is where we must use the sword of the Spirit to respond to the violent opposition of freeing the inner man into rejoicing with joy unspeakable and full of glory. We must learn how to curse the curse that we want to hold onto.    Reply Quote Notify

973  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Consequences of the fall on: August 07, 2012, 11:07:19 AM Sanctification is simply being set apart for Gods purposes. But God works through husband and wife as a family unit. Because marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman. And God shows Himself true by showing that His is a covenant keeping God. So the institutions of this earth are not really run from a secularistic mold. But they are an example of the covenant faithfulness of a society. This is why covenant breakers are put into two categories. They are the wicked who do not know God and the others are the self righteous. The self righteous do not regard all of Gods word as personally applicable to all of life. But they either limit His word by their personal doctrines, foibles, or prejudices. Because Gods covenant of grace is the only doctrine that holds all truths to be contained in themselves. So it its a fact presented or a way of life any thought or action outside of Gods design is to declare independence from Gods way of ruling. This is why men are bathed in the creation paradigm. Because God forms all things. He not only forms the physical things but He forms mens hearts. God creates disaster and He opens His hand and all creatures needs are met. Why does God hold Himself to doing all things for His own glory? Because He does this through covenant. And so we see that man goes astray in thought and action from Gods ordering all things. Man is a covenant breaker. Reply Quote Notify

974  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 07, 2012, 10:40:09 AM Its funny because there is no commitment to a dogmatic way of thinking here. And yet i bet you guys have real convictions when someone offends you or tries to take something from you. Of course why would it matter? Its just some that is explained in a book or on paper. But if we use terms like faith, grace, salvation then these ideas are as personal as you being injured and feeling the pain of that injury. So we see that all of these things we are required to believe tell the story of the condition of our hearts as we stand with Christ. But if there was faith exercised in the garden then what did they not see or know that required them to trust in God? They walk with God and had the ability to do as God required in themselves. I do not see any where in scripture where it says that Adam exercised faith as a matter of obedience. This is why im not dogmatic on the teaching that the garden was a covenant of works. Because i believe that when we are talking about God establishing a covenant that being a promise ..it requires faith on our part. And so you see that Abram by faith presented his sacrifice. And the first sacrifice that was established was God coming to Adam with the skins along with a promise that He would crush the serpents head. This covenant of redemption was not required prior to the fall. Addressing Ml... How much control does one have over his or her life? I mean how do you keep yourself from death?  In terms of eternity which is an example of our lack of understanding of our significance...just comparing the 70 yrs shows its a mute point to think we have a significant amount of knowledge enough to understand punishment and rewards. In terms of horizontal comparisons we may be able to boast but the vertical comparisons show us quite different. Would it be unnatural of God to leave men with His knowledge of things? The shear weight and sorrow of the responsibility would consume us in a nano second. Is it gracious for God to not allow us to know some things? Of course it is. To think that we are responsible enough to know exactly what we are doing as God knows it is miss guided and foolish. Some times i think men use those scriptures where it says that God hides it from the wise to mean that God is punishing them. But in a sense God is allowing them to enjoy their present lives enough for them to add more pain to themselves in the future. There is for the wicked pleasure for a season. But God is gracious by not allowing man to know the judgement that awaits him. Because it would not give man freedom to do what that man wants to do. So the argument that a lack of knowledge inhibits mans freedom to choose is short sighted. And this is the great part about which side of salvation we stand on.  This is why the most personal effects in the universe are what we describe from persons to persons. Its not an argument or a principle. But its really who is Christ and what is His kingdom like? So we are talking about man having a very small understanding of the total knowledge of Christ. His thoughts are more in number than we could imagine. So when we are talking about true responsibility in terms of Christ kingdom its really what He allows as freedom expressed.   Reply Quote Notify

975	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS	on: August 06, 2012, 10:41:24 AM
Knowledge of oneself is dependent upon the knowledge of God. Because any time we act before God there is a lack of trust in the relationship. So coming to God is not really doing it according to a prescribed set of principles but its coming as we are. Because the goal of our faith is to glorify God by enjoying Him. So any religious movement or life long commitment to a thriving community is not people who agree to a set of doctrines but its really holistic. People who know God know themselves best and can best express their gifts to one another. So we are not talking about something contrived. We are seeking with our weaknesses to only go forward as God has made us as to who we are. Because knowing God is resting in His refuge. And knowing oneself is avoiding the trouble that dwells under mens tongues... trusting in God alone.. knowing how to unburden our souls to God so that we are not entrapped in this life and letting God do His work in light of our learning to praise Him when He has accomplished it.    976  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 06, 2012, 10:00:06 AM The doctrine of salvation is not man going up to God but its God coming down to man. So the bible is God defining not only the terms of salvation but the success of it as well. On the other hand since all men are religious they will believe in some kind of deity. Because men are made to compare themselves .. that being in their rite mind .. with an image of what they think they are. The lack of understanding of the perfect image is the degree imagination that a man will think he is. So every man is obligated to perform a thinking process that he was created to act upon even if it is mostly imaginative. This is why God must contain salvation within Himself. Because reality is either God defining it according to His word or on the other hand man living in the imagination of the perfect image. Man is restless until he has found God. So when we are talking about saving grace it is only secure if its given freely without human achievement. This is what is so difficult about really believing. Because there is only two ways to go. There is the rite way and the wrong way. There is the way of grace and the way of works. But this is what is so interesting about life. The truth is that since man is religious he accept to some extent a grace that is partial. Its what the Devil does best. The bible calls the Devil and angel of light. Now this is interesting because the Devil actually uses Gods word. Since the Devil is not all powerful or everywhere present then he must borrow truth from God in order to deceive the people. How does the Devil get someone under his power? He is said to be the accuser of the brethren. But if salvation is by grace then should not it render the Devil powerless to get a believer to doubt God? Yes if the grace that we hold onto is real grace. But we know that the Devils accusing scheme is to give grace and then take it back. But at the same time the Devil wants to appear as a man of grace. And so every man who is religious to some extent claims that he believes in grace. This why is there so much doubt about religious people. Because its the only group where every ones religious experience puts them in between real sovereign grace and works. So we can say that unbelief is to some extent not being able to understand and accept Gods sovereign will to some extent. And this is why its so common for people to think of grace as being given but only to a certain extent.   Reply Quote Notify 977  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Request for Biblical help on OSAS on: August 05, 2012, 12:08:34 PM This argument about two line is pointless because the gospel is all of grace. And how can you argue against a free gift? How can you fail if the gift takes care of all of your sins, weaknesses, and circumstances on this earth? God does not only promise to keep you but He logically provides us with the solution to be kept. Its like a guy who promises that His vacuum cleaners will work and perform all of the life of its owner and then he backs it up with a life time guarantee. So if it breaks down he will fix the problem and the vacuum. And so God has communicated the success of His work through grace. If it is one sided and guaranteed then there is no question that God will finish His work. lol And this is exactly how He describes His covenant of grace. The working of grace is the definition of one word. It is redemption. God promises through this covenant that He will redeem a people for Himself through Himself.  "He Himself will redeem His people from their sins. " So the ability and power precedes the will to do it. And this is exactly how God describes Israel in His relationship to them as a faithless people. He says that He is their Shepherd and they are like a vine that grows. The vine is the life of God provided through Jesus Christ. But some of Israel is faithless so God allows the Nations to come and ravage the vine. The nations do not realize they are destroying the earth because they do not see that Israel was Gods nation who kept peace throughout the earth. But what is Gods remedy for the nation of Israel?It is redemption from the Man at His right hand. God looks at the Man at His right hand and in accepting His work as the ruler of all the earth God restores Israel to its former glory days. God provides the nations with the message of salvation and en grafts His church into the vine. What is this pre ability that we are discussing here? God looks at the Man at His right hand and restores but God provides Israel and His church with a revived Spirit so they will call upon God for this restoration. God revives and then we call.  Reply Quote Notify 978  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Temptation, how to cope on: August 05, 2012, 10:09:09 AM cont... its impossible for us to end up in a blessed circumstance through trying to change by mens wisdom. And anyone who says i am an example but is wrong in his view of scripture is deceived. Because life is not about forcing the commands upon ourselves and others but its avoiding cursing and seeking blessing. The only available mixture of the rite chemicals is word and Spirit. If you seek your own righteousness then your gonna be in a successful position but there is gonna be sorrow added to it. You cannot avoid being deceived if you have sought your own way. This is the principle that is simplified so much that it is easy to avoid. If you seek your own success then your gonna grieve eventually. I mean the world is backwards. The christian is scorned, in trouble , and made weak while the successful is powerful , dominate, and unbending. But the christian puts his refuge in God and God blesses those who call on His name. In other words God prevents judgement for His own while at the same time greases the tracks of the self righteous. Reply Quote Notify 979  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Temptation, how to cope on: August 05, 2012, 09:51:15 AM The problem with this kind of thinking is it is limited in the scope of dangers that confront us. If i were to really be true in avoiding these behaviors i would need to move into a monastery. Obviously the world around me is participating in these things and to be consistent i would need to avoid the appearance of them in light of touching the  dirty thing. I mean if i put my hand on the ground and get soiled but claim that i have the ability to avoid being soiled by my will and my hand is not really dirty it just looks like that then it is a very big imagination. lol The truth is that reality is kind of like a monster. Sin is forcing itself upon us. Not just the outward behaviors but in our thoughts, and our dispostional experiences. We are required to live before God as He is. The standard is the whole earth praising God according to His deserving that praise. As i see it we are always facing 20 pounds of resistance for 10 pounds of success. So its a losing proposition to look to ourselves for success. This is why God has given us Himself through His word. Because the word of God really is looking away from ourselves and seeing what God says about us. The more we look to His word the more we are gonna be made aware of Gods greatness and our weakness. When we understand in a blessed way how great our God is then we become free to worship and adore Him as He is. Our resistance in terms of experiencing guilt, anger, sorrow and fear get consumed in Gods love and faithfulness. Reply Quote Notify 980  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Consequences of the fall on: August 05, 2012, 09:33:50 AM In this holiness is a sovereign constraint. For the righteous its God providing the ability to do as He commands but not perfectly. There is two kinds of restraints. It depends upon whether the person has the curses lifted. The christian life is a life in which sovereign ability precedes desire. Within this provision from God also is His purpose to protect the saint from the destructive nature of sin not just the sin itself. We call this being transformed from cursing to blessing. The reason that this transformation experience cannot fail is because it is contained in Gods foresight and covenant promises to fulfill His promise to His people. Because of the awful condition of total depravity God protects His children from the destructive nature of this world before He works righteousness in His people. Let me explain why this is. Man has a terrible disease. Its not that man is free to act according to the command in a holistic way but sin has left man with a vision problem. We see that the bible talks about absolutes when we are discussing the law, meeting needs, loving ones neighbor, having a true understanding of ones self worth, trusting in a truly big and sovereign loving God. There is no allowance from straying in word and action. But man because of sin cannot see correctly what is needed to meet these absolute standards of Gods righteousness. The terrible result of this is that one man redefines reality for his own prosperity.The law was put into the heart of man not just as a rule but its the basis of living in a society in which there is peace because of the holistic desire for peace as Gods rules in the hearts of men. But because God has made us as people who enforce His law by our total understanding of reality as being holistically made well then one small move away from one small principle then we have become our own god. This is why the law first sets the absolute standards God requires to understand who He is and then how we treat one another. Because of this disease men excuse themselves while at the same time they accuse others. How does the problem of total corruption become an epidemic? Because man tries to reverse these effects by his own efforts. He tries to prove that he is able in himself to be righteous but he is only under the dominion of proceeding in a way of condemning others while at the same time excusing himself. God has made it so that the destructive nature of sin cannot be avoided even tho man tries to avoid it. lol There is only one remedy. It is the only ability for man to look away from himself and be free to meet real reality as he pretends to know true righteousness. It is Gods free and unbounding ability. Its in Gods covenant love. This power is Gods grace provided to man apart from the process of the works of the law in man. Its not just something that we know is secure but its our being reminded of it.. living to see it in community and being more and more aware of the speech and actions that work against it.   Reply Quote Notify 981  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Consequences of the fall on: August 02, 2012, 08:07:41 PM Salvation is in Christ alone and when Christ was holding the children He declares that such are the kingdom of heaven. But this is not just a declaration that a person needs to become child like as a matter of identifying saving faith but its the recipients of His kingdom that He is talking about as well. And He rules this world. So there is a link between salvation and how His kingdom is advanced on this earth. This is why the bible says not many mighty.. not many rich.. nor any religious hypocrites will enter the kingdom of heaven. What is this declaration that children are entering the kingdom? Well the bible describes Christ kingdom as His gifting men with all things. So the kingdom is not really each man as self reliant. Its not each man being equally responsible but we are in a sense all brothers and we are connected to Christ who is to have the absolute glory. But some people are blind and unable to bring glory to Christ. These are the non citizens of Christ kingdom. Although we are all brothers because we have a common creation yet those who are not the citizens of Christ kingdom have declared their allegiance to another father.. he is Satan. We see that Christ kingdom is those who are poor.. weak.. and unable to be righteous in themselves. But they not only suffer from their personal weakness but they also suffer at the hands of the powerful who are not citizens of Christ kingdom. Sense Christ demands absolute authority then He determines who is responsible for the evils of society. This is why the scripture has a special warning to leaders to kiss the Son lest he be angry and you be removed in the way. Its bow down and reverence Christ or drink the kings cup of His wrath. There is a sense in which a few men can cause a lot of trouble and grief for a whole lot of people. If this is how the bible works out judgement then we understand that Christ places a lot of importance on not only sin but the destructive nature of sin. This is why children are the most vulnerable to the evils of other men. But Gods nature is to protect the most vulnerable of society as how He has decided to work His justice. In other words there are not only doctrines of salvation that are like cardinal rules but there are also forbidden areas that God warns must not be crossed in society as the way of salvation and deliverance. Crossing the line is equal to miss use of authority and is treacherous. If salvation saves people from this destructive way of life then God must save children because they are the most vulnerable. If God were to judge children who do not have the moral ability to chose in an accountable way then it would be like treachery.     Reply Quote Notify 982  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: For Our Mbg on: August 02, 2012, 07:37:46 AM Ive been working for Target for about 4 yrs and built up a reputation of working hard and showing up on time. Now they are threatening me... treating me differently.. its a difficult time. I feel like they are trying to destroy my reputation. Reply Quote Notify 983  Forums / Main Forum / Re: A pastor who gets it! on: July 31, 2012, 03:37:06 PM But you can make this a sales pitch.... i mean you walk into a car dealer with a sports car that you want to trade in. The salesmen meets you at the door for one purpose. Its to convince you that your old car is defective in some way and you need to buy this car on the floor. So he not only tells you the car drives well but he says to you.. I can prove the car drives well by us getting into the car and taking it for a practice run. This is the real thing here. The car is the real product. Its more efficient .. new... provides the most proof of what the salesman is saying. Now what is happening is that he is only interested in selling you the car. The way he gets you to buy into his product is the pitch that your driving the car is proof that you need it. Your saying the same thing here. Your saying that the evidence of faith is works. Without seeing these works there is no reason to think that what your saying about your self is true. What you possess is not valuable because you cant see it. Is this really what the bible is the process by which God saves people? They sort of look at christians as the product of value and they buy into salvation?   Reply Quote Notify 984  Forums / Main Forum / Re: A pastor who gets it! on: July 31, 2012, 02:43:57 PM Yes Willis the gospel is the measuring stick. Continuing in the hope of the gospel. And the gospel is by faith alone, in Christ alone and through grace alone. It is not a moral message. So Paul says that we work because He works. Or we are totally dependent upon Christ for everything. Our acceptance is not found outside of Christ. What the apostle is saying here is that we not only have been sanctified but we have been declared righteous in the court of heaven. The same court that pronounces eternal punishment for unbelievers. So we can say that God is the judge and Jesus is the counsel to the defense. But God who is judge is also our Father. lol Not only does Jesus righteousness protect us from judgement but the judge is fond of us because He has provided all that we need in this life. So in a since this judge could get waiver to re quit himself from the case for using the law to protect us law breakers from those who He has already condemned. But instead He actually acquits us of our sins and provides our rewards with the return of our accusers. lol You know this whole American cultural mixture with biblical truth has warped our view of Christ. People have an indirect way of teaching worm theology.   Reply Quote Notify 985  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Spiritual Experiences on: July 31, 2012, 12:28:50 PM We belong to another world. If you could imagine the throne of God being exposed from our view.. that is above us ...it would be the most life giving transfusion that is unimaginable. God who shines in our hearts the glory. That throne with seven spirits blazing like a torch and the sea of glass that mirrors the brightness of His glory.. the presence of the Lamb of God whos eyes are like fire... they blaze with power and strength .. and they go out into our hearts that produce new change from one glory to another into all eternity. With this is the memory of all things put under our feet. All of our enemies will be conquered and be brought before the tribunal of God to be sentenced for eternal crimes. All of the sorrow and pain will be justified and we will receive rewards that we do not deserve. These rewards will be for things we cannot even imagine. They are from His working in us. That most beautiful display of unity and pleasure. But the pleasure we experience from our seeking Gods promises.. the pleasure we experience from our exercising His gifts .. of His delivering us through gifts will not rise to the pleasure we receive in the future justice of all things. We will be rewarded for our thankfulness in the achievement and not our our achievement in itself. We will know in the future even as we are known rite now. How can we imagine His knowledge of us in gifting us with His immeasurable ability in this life? Only in eternity will we understand the nature of this union with Christ. But we walk in this world looking to Christ. For it is His life that produces the experience of all things being in perfect harmony. We have avoided the snares of the devil. Even tho we may fall into a trap yet those are our pronouncements of the curses of the law. Because we know that a soldier fights with spiritual weapons and so we long for the blessings of the covenant. When we long for those blessings we begin to understand the love of the Father... an eternal unchanging love. We feel the power of God who is Christ 7 eyes sent out into all the earth. Not only did Christ work in the incarnation but He is our high priest who is the eternal presence protection. Our union with Christ is spiritual. We fellowship with Him as we begin to look upon His image. These are promises that are yea and amen. This yea an amen is His communication through word and Spirit. We learn to hear the dogmatic voice of Gods pronouncements for us and promises to us. We walk in the light of God. He speaks love to us in the morning... he shows us a new day.. an eternal day in which He answers us because its His creation...we hear Him speak to us a word of salvation... that answer to our prayers and longings... we experience a kind of satisfaction in our desires ... a pleasure from the transference of His wisdom and an assurance that we will get what we want if we ask according to His will. We are more and more weened from this world so that do not think of things that this world promises that are too wonderful for us to think about. We are given the ability to long for things of heaven more than the things of this world. Because we find true satisfaction in returning to that refuge that has made all things rite to us. This is too great for us to understand. Because God who is omniscient... omnipresent...omnipotent infuses us with His presence as we are more and more confident in His power. As we are less and less confident in our own power. We learn to rest in His eternal presence. For it is here that we enjoy the small breeze of His love. It is here that we feel enlightened to experience His eternal pleasure. It is here that we learn to find all of our security. It is here that we are made to rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.     Remove Reply Quote Notify 986  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The coming of the great Apocalypse on: July 31, 2012, 10:53:41 AM I believe that the throne of God is His ruling over the nations and is carried out by the descriptions of the throne.. those created things and these descriptions of the beings around the throne in responding to the events of the earth through all history. Im not quite sure its a snap shot of all of history in a timeless sense, when John is taken through the door. But we have the seven spirits, flames of fire, the seven eyes.. etc. And it may be possible that we have this linear view of the world transformed into this eternal view. As an example the 4 creatures or some form of angels have eyes in front and back.. but then they have eyes all around them. even under their wings...nothing is hidden... may be speaking of their position to bring renewal on the earth through interacting with time. They assist in special judgement over nations more directly. The eternal entering time. You see this with the horns and eyes of the Lamb. And this is His seven spirits sent out into all the earth.. the spirits that are in front of the throne. So in a sense you have the picture of these active agents and then they are immediately active through these persons in this Apocalypse way of Christ ruling the nations. Raising one nation up and bringing one nation down. Possibly there is reference to these creatures in their working these judgement out in a different description than the view as they appear before the throne of God. And so you see that the throne describes these creatures in their total focus on God who is all glorious without reference to their doing something as their identity.   Remove Reply Quote Notify 987  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Extremism of Touching the Unclean Thing on: July 30, 2012, 09:16:40 PM If you look in Romans it talks about these two brothers. Jacob and Esau. These two brothers were both circumcised. And if you think about it the Nations were the offspring of Israel. So we really are not talking about being identified with Gods church by physical circumcision as any importance in a covenant sense. Jacob i loved... Esau I hated. Thats personal relationship. This is why we make clear distinctions about the people who are threatened with the curses and the people who are promised the blessings. In the nation of Israel were Esau s and Jacob s. The Esaus were hated.. that being at enmity with God. The Jacobs were loved. That being in fellowship with God as Father. Because salvation in a covenant sense is eternal and its in God alone. In order for the blessings to be established we must acknowledge this ot description of Israel in relationship to our Father. Because the blessing really is a saving relationship with God as Father. To think that it would be acceptable to us if God were to get the glory in our eternal punishment so that we acknowledge this with our lips is to curse ourselves. To follow blessing is to be free to seek salvation as a self protection. Hating oneself is not wishing evil on oneself in the biblical sense. Hating oneself in a saving sense is to acknowledge total reliance on Christ by acknowledging total inability. This is why i abhor two line theology. Its a greek philosophy. Ive heard it argued that self examination is to curse yourself as hate. If you are struggling with a lack of assurance there is not good in wishing evil in transformation .. that is not biblical. But its seeking salvation through grace... period!     Remove Reply Quote Notify 988  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: A pastor who gets it! on: July 30, 2012, 08:35:03 PM Yes examining ourselves is not trying to fix ourselves. We need to stick to the historical faith. In this day and age because of all of the counsel out there we are in danger of abandoning the gospel, which is a message that is contained in the scriptures.. we are in danger of forgetting that we have been bought with a price. We have been redeemed by Christ. The way we forget is to be talked into the wrong focus. When the bible talks about focusing on Christ its in the context of God being our refuge. What is to seek a refuge in Christ. It is to look for deliverance from Christ. And we are delivered by believing that He is sufficient in our salvation. Our refuge is like asking our best friend to come to our rescue. Its asking and then pleading so that our lives are marked in seeking from a surface knowledge of His refuge to an intimate knowledge of His refuge. We actually are entering through the door and walking into the inner chamber of His covenant promises. So we actually seek Him in prayer and then we remember that He delivered us in a time in the past. We are saying that to believe that Christ is our deliverance we must know for certain that we can always go to this refuge...this rest. In all of life through the circumstances.. with all the people we encounter .. having Christ as our refuge is so ingrained in how we dwell in peace that we make a distinction between those people out there and Christ who fellowships with us in out hearts. This also involves all of our energy. If we are struggling in this world.. with tension.. with people who do not understand us.. with enemies who are seeking to do evil to us...then we are forlorn. This is anger mixed with sorrow and can turn into self loathing. Believing in Christ is focusing on Him so that no odd disposition gets in the way of finding Him as our deliver. Now these voices of sorrow oppose our faith. But we are made to image the perfect man by communication. We have a vacuum that can only be filled by God. We must know that we are loved in order for God to communicate to us that He has become our Father and in this He provides for us our deepest security. How do we know that we are loved in confronting this forlorn disposition? By Christ speaking deliverance which the bible calls giving a command to save us. So in this refuge communication that draws us into the love of God in which we become secure in the image of Christ we go from asking to commanding the command. So we see there is a way to draw near to God and speak in a way in which He will draw near to us. Or He will make all things rite. This refuge is like transparency.   Reply Quote Notify 989  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Memorizing scripture on: July 30, 2012, 08:10:04 PM The NIV Reply Quote Notify 990  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Memorizing scripture on: July 29, 2012, 11:07:11 PM Ive memorized scripture for 30 yrs. I started in Matt 5 6 7 and then went onto Rom. 6 7 8 . You have a short term memory and a long term. I started with 1 or 2 verses each day. I would meditate on the verses throughout the day until i was saying them without looking at my bible. The next day i would start with the verses i had already memorized and then add 1 or 2 verses in my memory. If i got a chapt memorized then I would stop from going on and meditate on that chapt until i was sure that i had it down good. The more you meditate the faster it is spoken. I currently am in Rev. Ive got 5 chapts memorized. Im focusing on them rite now. The point of memorizing is to meditate on them. Ive got so much memorized i would need to go back over them to reestablish them verbatim. Except for Psalms.. i will always keep those fresh...lol But they still come to me if i need a text that paralleled the text i am memorizing. And eventually the total context of scripture of the doctrines of grace become clearer.