Even tho the body of Christ is a dangerous
place in trying to create unity, never the less we need to create a safe
place by having a spirit of encouragement. There is only one reason
that we must separate from a certain danger. It is concerning the
teaching. Teaching correct doctrine about Christ brings about a
different spirit from the worldly anxious fear of danger. Teaching wrong
doctrines about Christ brings about a spirit of pride and leads to a
dangerous dependence on the legal aspects of the christian faith. No
matter what we accomplish in life, we are always tempted to think and
live in a mind set that has negative spiritual consequences on our own
dispositions and then the group disposition. We are to glorify God and
enjoy Him forever. If we are to develop a spirit of looking beyond our
schedules, our goals, our wants and this life then we are only going to
accomplish this toward unity by focusing on God through His word
according to the teaching that historically was successful in developing
spiritual unity. Our danger in the 20 th century is to segregate our
lives and make Christianity a segregated moral equation of single
purpose. The problem with this view of life is that one persons desire
to accomplish something is not the righteous standard for all the other
people, because of the different positive requirements in an individual
sense. We are required to obey the whole law so that we give up our view
of what is required for others and we create a spirit of encouragement
to unify under the Spirit of Christ. We glory in Christ together by the
spirit of encouragement. If you read through the early church history in
the book of Acts, you will see this thread of encouragement in how the
leaders were led by the Holy Spirit in a dis positional sense. This was
the practice of all of the members. This spirit was developed by
rejoicing in the sacraments, the apostles teaching and prayer both
private and corporate. We have a long way to go to create this kind of
worship.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: September 14, 2008, 08:22:43 PM
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Father we praise you that you have spoken and
it was done. We thank you that your plans to redeem a people for
yourself was done for the purpose of showing your greater Love, when we
fell into sin. So that we are always obligated to seek your greater love
over our need to have a love of our own. For when we go through trials
then we are pointed to eternity through our longing to be loved with an
everlasting love. And if we do not regard all of these trials as a
taking away the longing of things that do not have value in seeing your
greatness, then we would be hopeless, since you have prepared more than
we can ask or think, beyond this short life. Oh Father, your speaking
your salvation makes us to want to seek your face, since You have
brought redemption and we only have brought our sins. How we see the
contrast between our hate and your love for us. We long to be revived in
this way, so that we will be led to praise you and extol you night and
day. For we find our greatest longings as the only way that we that we
can rest in your greater love.
Grant us a rest from our enemies
and from these real threats that come from our circumstances and the
cities in which we live. For we know that the innocent and the helpless
cry from their pain since they have been under the burdens of men who
have made laws to punish the helpless. And since we know that you have
come to the aid of your people, that you are close to their cries. For
when we come before you, we come as men who have nor righteous plea, we
come by your mercy. And we only come knowing that you are the only one
who can restore peace in our cities. For your righteousness is open to
all who come with nothing but their sin. Grant us rest from our own
works so that we can obey you with your keeping power. Oh Lord, keep us
from willful sins, because when we come to you and praise you all day
long we are most satisfied. For your springs of life and truth come from
your throne, and in your lite we see lite. So that we are glad to sit
at your table and feast on the reveal word, that word that enlightens
our eyes and causes us to walk with Christ as your disciples did on the
road . For their hearts did burn within them. May we be made to speak to
the congregation from a heart that is on fire. May it come because we
do not feel the assaults of men, but we experience a rest in the living
God. Alone. Oh Father, we long to long to be made to rest in your
greater love. For we know that when we are rewarded, it will be because
you have extended your grace and mercy to us out of your greater love,
and we are helpless to stand before you as righteous in ourselves. For
we are melted by that knowledge of living face to face with you in
eternity.
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6070
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: September 14, 2008, 03:49:27 PM
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Jesus Christ is eternally with us by the Holy
Spirit. He stands with us as our Comforter and our Advocate. He says my
sheep hear my communication to them. And even tho we do not see Him, yet
what He communicates to us is more powerful than the best advice, and
the worse threatening. Because through His revelation to us He has given
us Himself. And we are wholly able at all times to have a fellowship
with the Father , through the Son, by the Holy Spirit. So that we know
of His being our friend by Him giving Himself to us as the image of the
invisible God.And we would not treat others the way that we would want
to be treated if we did not have this Christ consciousness. Because He
treats us better than we think we want to be treated. I am not just
talking about these private illuminations, but i am talking about His
identity in our relationships with others as if He actually were moving
in our midst as the other person. What He communicates to others whether
they know it our not is the means by which He proves His care and love
to us. Because through Him and to Him and in Him are all things.
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Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Approaching God
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on: September 12, 2008, 12:18:28 PM
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Mine
as well. I've been reading an old copy of the book which I found at our
local library. One thing about it that is very encouraging is that
Steve allows that there will be times when God simply has not called you
to a deeper prayer life (at least not yet) as He sees that you are not
ready for it. (For those of you - like me - who have been banging your
heads up agains the wall trying "to get closer" to God!). It is God who
stirs the desire in us to go deeper - all we can do is to continually
ask for it.
I agree TB, God sits us down and tells us how He is
going to communicate Himself to us. And this is not easy, since He does
this with a vessel that has a very limited understanding. We are
required to have a level of trust in things that are not seen. It is a
very slow process with lots of deep springs of conflict. Gods
understanding of reality is caught rather than taught in the personal
experience. Thats why i think searching, seeking and knocking has a lot
more value in enduring as opposed to a knowledge through experience. We
look back and we remember the fellowship or the element of that
communication of these divine attributes in that personal experience.
Since we not only need the personal experience but we need the glory of
Christ in experience.
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6077
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: September 12, 2008, 11:44:15 AM
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I think this active and passive is both
absolutely necessary and holistically satisfying. I mean, to think that
God was uninterested as if He was without moving in some kind of reality
is to be less than God. That s why when we attribute to God these human
parts, we are describing a simplified way of Gods communication and
acting. Because God is, therefore all things exist and are made to move.
That is not only the physical universe , but all the ideas and actions
that are willed to happen or are designed to be resistant resting from
the forces that are a result from the fall. So in a sense we are never
in the same position of experience in the movement of the hand of the
clock.
We are totally passive and totally active. Otherwise God would
not be sovereign over some level of this reality. We are passive
because we are dependent creatures. But God is not dependent as if He
needed anything from the creature. Most of our misunderstanding of
reality is that we do not know the mind of God nor do we have a true
self reflection of our selves in our experience. Thats why , when we are
totally dependent on God, then we are most aware of what is happening
with us, or we are better able to self reflect.
God can make us
more than we are since we are dealing with the reality of the
supernatural. And it is our thinking in these terms of total passive and
total active that can bring about a true vision of the reality of a
Christ centered universe of action. One of the reasons that we struggle
with our circumstances is that we do not see the value of these
different levels of trials or the smallest element of our experience as
being the important quality in living with the realities of Gods active
nature of His working in us to will and do, by our being both of these
in relation to the order of all things.
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6078
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Goal of the Church
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on: September 12, 2008, 11:30:16 AM
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The goal of the church is to be conformed to the image of Christ, by Her teaching, in order to be built up
into a body, where everything works by that unity of Christ. If we
focus on Christ then He will add to the church. If we try to build the
church in our own power then we will have a lot of our own converts.
Since the process of the growth of the church is through reformation of
doctrine, then the practice will be according to His , will, timing, and
purpose. Thats why we are to pray to the Lord of the harvest and He will send
workers into the field. Cause we do not measure like He measures, we do
not see like He sees. We see Davids brothers, God chooses the Davids.
We see the golden Calf, God uses the sword.
If we seek Him ,then
we will find Him. He is knocking at the door in order to come in and
sup with us. We are too busy trying to run His church in our own power.
The level of the movement of God is measured by the level of the
reformation and prayers of the saints.
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6079
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: September 07, 2008, 09:28:48 AM
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i agree that we are no longer slaves to sin. A
slave only serves his master. A slave to sin is his own law. But since
God has written His law into the hearts and consciences of men, men are
not only a slave to sin, but they are a slave to what they think they
are thinking and doing by their view of the relationship they have with
that law. A slave to sin is a slave to the law. The law only has one
purpose, and that is to show men their sin, by working with the
conscience to produce sorrow. The law works death. The power of the law
only drives men into more sin. If a man is not freed from sin, then the
only power he knows is the legal power of the law. So that men in their
natural selves are under the condemning power of the law, and on the
other hand they are under the power of their own law since they do not
keep the law of God, they excuse themselves from keeping the
requirements of the law and live as tho they are not law breakers. So
that they go from one extreme to another. They get convicted, they
excuse themselves and in doing that they make one law for themselves and
another law for everyone else. Every man is a terrible judge of other
men.
But if we are in Christ then we are no longer slaves to the
law. But we can still make a law unto ourselves even tho we have been
freed from the law and become slaves to Christ. Since the law with its
power has been fully satisfied by Christ in His active and passive
obedience, then we cannot have a standard of our meeting the
requirements of the law in living our christian life by our own works.
Since Christ standard of keeping the law is perfect, then anything short
of that standard is us thinking that we are more than we are. So that
we can make a law unto ourselves. Since we still sin, and we are under
the effects of sin, both physical and spiritual then we are not able to
measure up to the standard of law keeping. If we thought that we could
then we are a law unto ourselves. That is we have become disconnected
from the Head, by experience, since we are thinking that we can be made
righteous by a power of our own. If we think that we have met the
requirements of the law by being cut from its power to rule us, then we
have not cut our dependence on our desire to make a law unto ourselves.
And we are back to a works righteousness of an unbeliever. Thats why
judgment begins at the house of God, that is we are all silenced to our
own law keeping by seeing the only Man who kept the law, the only real
Man.
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6080
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Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: Need Prayer Desperately
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on: September 06, 2008, 10:10:19 AM
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I
just messed-up badly tonight. No, it wasn't drugs or alcohol, but
that's as far as I'll go on it. Just please continue to keep me in
prayer - pray that I will fully submit to the Lord's Spirit.
Casey
Just
learn to morn over your sin. I mean we are in the reality of grace.
Nothing can take us from the love of God. He will give you a sweetness
in sorrow. If there is sorrow then there is a longing of His present
pleasure. Desire is always deep like this.
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6081
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: September 06, 2008, 09:26:34 AM
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There is only two realities in this life.
There are only two directions. We view everything by this center in the
circle of time. The truth is how we define everything in view of this
pre determinism a God ordered universe. We cannot give into the
temptation of our first parents of having a knowledge of good and evil
as we define these boundaries of the truth. Nor can we enter this life
of truth with the notion that these distinctions of the truth are
without the origins of adversity. But all truth is from a biased
position that springs from adversarial reckoning. Sin is seeking to
destroy, but we must master it. We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but
against principalities, powers and spiritual forces in the heaven lies.
Relationships are defined with this narrow world view because if we
broaden our view of the truth then we are making an effort to broaden
the narrow road to life. But our view of being on the narrow road is a
only as dogmatic as we meditate on these two realities and as we fight
to hold to these two realities. We are not in a philosophical struggle
but we are in a struggle of life and death.
We must see that holding
onto the truth is a struggle between complacency and blindness or
standing against foes that are out to destroy our confidence. So that
our war is not physical, but we are fighting a clear set of dogmatic
voices that are chipping away at our confidence of our sure position of
being in Him. The society of the redeemed are at odds with the wicked.
We no longer are friends with the world, but we are defining our
position in the world by our ongoing display of confidence in how He
defines this human paradigm. Since we exist to please Him then we know
that the struggle is to cause us to think and hold onto views that will
lessen our confidence in how He has determined through His work to
produce this ongoing reordering of our thinking to rest from our own
dogmatism of our view of reality. He has already ordered all things in
these two realities , for His glory. Everything past,present and future ,
is present before Him.
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6083
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: What noble, awesome authority!
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on: September 03, 2008, 09:07:23 PM
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May i share the view about how we are to
obtain the pressing on toward the goal of becoming more like Christ. As i
was ascending a hill today in my car i had been meditating for awhile.
And there was some very strong desires that were welling up in me. Now
the external circumstances of climbing were part of my sense perception
of the spiritual experience that i had longed for. But then it entered
my mind, that God was the cause of both. I mean, if the Holy Spirit
decided to enter that meditation in a special way, then He who hovered
over the waters in creation, was recreating that physical sense in me of
that climb to the top of the hill. So that there was a sense in which i
was ascending spiritually in rejoicing and at the same time ascending
to the top of a hill.
At the top i turned rt and continued on the
hill looking down at the valley. Which gives me a sense of triumph. So
that all of life is going from one position to another for the believer
in a fashion of reaching the heights of joy and triumph. Since Christ
has ascended into Heaven, and sits at the rite hand of God, then
becoming more like Him is identifying with Him in His death and
resurrection. Since we cannot separate His work on the cross from His
identity as our present mediator , then our understanding by experience
is having a personal experience of His resurrection power.
This was
so important to the apostle for us to deepen our understanding. And if
we are to have this understanding then we are going to have a fellowship
with the Spirit who has given us His fruit love joy, peace, patience,
kindness, forgiveness, and the rest. And even tho these different
paradigms are listed, yet they are one fruit, which the Holy Spirit
works in us , so that they are all connected as one in us. For there is
only one faith. But this fruit is what we desire by having that nature
implanted in us when we were born again. So that our minds were pleased
with the nature of having these desires. We now not only have the
desires of the new nature, but we rejoice in them. We cannot even
understand the kind of power of love that we have by that nature.
We
are going to experience a worship and fellowship with this power as we
gain a familiarity with the Holy Spirit. Because if it is His fruit,
then He is the cause of our desire to glorify and enjoy God. Wherever we
find His work and means to work, we are going to have a communication
with the Holy Spirit in the experiencing of these means. Thats why we
have these waves of experiences in which we climb the heights of
spiritual illumination and eternal visions of joy.
In our natural
disposition we would like every thing to be ordered and without
surprise. But God has made us to be surprised by joy. Because joy comes
in the morning. Or our hope as a fruit of the Spirit has this component ,
that is, a present hope, not just in the end hope. And so mornings are a
succession to the end when we will have our hope fulfilled. So it is
that which we ascend in our experience. It is the morning hope that we
have as a longing in order to get to the top of the heights of power and
love in our understanding.
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6084
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Whaddya Do When You "Don't Wanna?"
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on: September 02, 2008, 10:40:04 PM
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The word of God is alive and quick, powerful,
sharper than a two edged sword. Because the word of God is the breath of
God bringing new life to our hardness. And if we mix the word with the
eternal promise to cause us to believe that these unseen things are as
real as what we see in the physical, then we will see that in the
eternal world of the unseen we are living with Gods illumination to our
spirit with His Spirit testifying that His Personage is as real as if we
had a friend standing next to us talking to us. As we stay long in His
breathing, we learn that we can hear Him from eternity past bringing
into reality that which had no being. He created from nothing. So that
He is the cause of all that happens in this world. And if He is the
cause then He speaks into existence the ordering of all of the things
that He caused. So that when we are most happy is when we are most
dependent. Or when we are most aware is when we are most like a
dependent child in our spirits.
When we are most dependent we
are most powerful. Since He has determined to breath His goodness by His
word, and when we feel that beautiful new breathing of His creating
word then we experience the pleasure of that beauty. So that it is the
most powerful infusion to our understanding that He has determined to
melt our hearts , even the most hard hearts, in the heat of His creating
word. We only ask Him to speak, to witness, to breathe, and we are so
affected that we are brought to rest before Him. His word is the most
powerful healing effect that can bring wholeness and convergence of love
and hate, anxiety and peace, sorrow and joy. For when we come to His
word we come to Him speaking in all eternity for all time so that His
word has endured through all generations and it will endure forever.
Have
you listen to the Spirit, who communicates in the language of eternity?
Does He speak and you are so effected that you are led to feel the
effect of His presence, He being invisible , yet so very powerful. And
here at any time in the day, this still small powerful effect over our
souls, He speaks, we are as it were brought to feel a joy that is
unspeakable and full of Glory. Because He has spoken in all of the most
powerful effects that the world has ever experienced. Yet His powerful
effects are as to the power of His being a Person who lives as our
Comforter and Advocate.
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6087
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: August 31, 2008, 09:39:20 PM
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Father thank you for giving us your Son so
that we can come before you and have fellowship with you through the
Spirit. And when we are extended in our worship, then we are longing to
be inflamed with your love. So that our hearts burn within us knowing
that we have an understanding of seeing you face to face one day. Oh,
that clear and unimaginable view of seeing you and your glory. How we
would be taken aback at the clear and brightness of looking into your
face being overcome with something that we have never seen before. And
in this seeking your face, we take refuge in You. For in You, we are
raised above our experience of all of the sorrows and troubles of this
world. In You we have Your love, faithfulness, kindness, long suffering
and wholeness. For in your light we see light. In Your attributes we see
a small view of your glorious Face. We long to be filled with your
Spirit and to know the glory that shines forth from between your throne.
Restore us oh Lord, make Your face shine upon us that we may saved. Oh
Lord , God Almighty , How long will your anger smolder against the
prayers of your people? How long must we confront this captivity of the
nation to sorrow? Revive us that we may call on your name. For we have
not turned from you, if we had lifted up an idol, would you not have
discovered it since you know the secrets of our hearts? But we hate
idols, we have not apostatized. Rise up oh God, rouse yourself do not
reject us forever, why do you hide Your face and forget our misery and
oppression, rise up and help us, redeem us because of Your unfailing
love.
Father, when we are drawn out of ourselves, we remember
being in a glorious longing of feeling your presence. And in our
understanding , there was a loss of time. We were feeling the effects of
eternal bliss. How we loved going to the temple, rejoicing all along
the way. And since we have lived as if time was of little importance to
our personal habit of thinking, then we only felt as if you were leading
us even tho there was trouble on every side.For Father you have shown
us a better way, since we have received so much real comfort from you in
your communication to the Spirit in us. Oh how our eyes were filled
with eternity. How your love possessed us in a continuous flow of power
from heaven. Here we had the experience of a deep filling of our need to
exist. Here we knew that your existence was all consuming, since we had
no difference of communion as we moved from place to place. Oh,Father,
since you are so very immense, since you are so very present, then we
only want to feel the pleasure of your immense power. Grant us a
fellowship in which we are bound together is feeling your fellowship
with the Spirit and the Son. We know of a favor that rivals kings. We
know of a flow of answered prayers that goes beyond the most evil forces
in this universe. For we have experienced your favor as if we know of
your fellowship of being In Christ. Shine down your light into our face
once again. Revive us so that we will have a new and fresh presence of
your powerful unfathomable love. We worship you again.
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6088
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Whaddya Do When You "Don't Wanna?"
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on: August 31, 2008, 11:32:04 AM
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The apostle was having some success in his
ministry but at the same time was experiencing some very profound
struggles. And since he narrowed down the his view of himself as he
appeared before men, that this was not his primary focus, then he
revealed what was the truth about his sin as he stood before God. Since
the law just reveals to us of who God is and not necessarily a letter to
be followed. Since we have the law of sin as a powerful working in us.
And we struggle with the power of sin in the inner man. The apostle was a
conformer to the outward , appearing to be in conformity before men,
but in his struggle with the law of sin, he failed completely. He
coveted power, and wanted to destroy christians. His coveting power was
more important to him than the glory of Christ. He persecuted Christ by
persecuting his followers. All for the purpose of holding on to his own
power. It was the ultimate holy club paradigm.
When he was
confronted with the glory of Christ, he was blinded. His old quest for
power was then revealed to him. His total inability to deal with
coveting cut him to the core. Now instead of it being his purpose and
desire, it became a life long battle , in which he saw himself as loser.
But now he stood in the power of God. And the law no longer had power
over him even tho he failed to meet the requirements. His confidence in
himself was destroyed when he thought about how blind he was to power.
That former love of having a false view of God by the outward conformity
gave way to enduring his weakness in the all consuming love and power
of God. Paul was standing in the new position of understanding the grace
of God looking back at his utter powerlessness to do one thing to
overcome the power of coveting. But he no longer feels the sting of the
law since he no longer sees himself as significant. When he fails, he
lives in pure grace.
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6090
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Whaddya Do When You "Don't Wanna?"
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on: August 30, 2008, 09:12:23 AM
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Romans is a doctrinal buzz saw to the self
righteous spirit. If the end of 8 is not an in your face to Rom 2:18 -29
then what would be the purpose of making the thesis of the book The
just shall live by faith or out of a foreign righteousness.If they cant
get out of the way and give Him the glory then what can we do? And if
it is just a theory , there would be no reason to have Romans 8. But we
are not secure as if there is no resistance inward or outward in our
world view. But our confidence is not in ourselves , whatever we do is
by the grace of God, for we are what we are by the grace of God, in
opposition to those who claim their own goodness before God, so that who
shall separate us from the love of God? We are as in your face as the
apostle. Because if we are justified through a foreign righteousness ,
then we are defended by that judge who declared us to be so. And this is
His declaration , we who are sinners, cannot be separated from the love
of God. If the weight of the law brings man to silence then this is
the positive silencing of them. The bliss is in His work on our behalf.
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Whaddya Do When You "Don't Wanna?"
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on: August 29, 2008, 02:30:08 PM
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Lot's
of good and long replies. Here's a short one. When I've been to that
point, I sinned severely until GOD slaps me across the face (through
being caught by someone I didn't want to catch me), then picked me up
and let me know he loved me.
Sir, i am sorry that you have
this as a normal view of God. This is not normal. He doesnt give His
children abuse. God is perfectly able to resolve two peoples longings
who are at odds. This little verse you are thinking of is not a bare
need to keep us in line. Its within the context of having the perfect
rectitude of the situation. You must really be angry at God. Or you dont
realize your position. Do you believe that God helps those who help
themselves?
I think you mistake me. I certainly don't mean the
"slap" as an abuse, just as a way to get my attention. Some of the
things we need to help us, hurt a little in the process. I don't hate
the doctor who gives me a shot to heal an illness. Likewise, I'm not
angry with GOD, but thankful to Him. I also don't view this as normal,
but what GOD must do at times with stubborn sinners. My comment was to
say how I didn't start turning back to GOD, and he chased me down.
I am thinking about the difference between how God disciplines His children and how he treats the reprobate. Heb. 11 31.
By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were
disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace. 32. And
what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak,
Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, 33. who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, 34.
quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from
weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to
flight. 35. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and
others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might
obtain a better resurrection; 36. and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37.
They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they
were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in
goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38. (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. 39. And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40. because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect. Rahab
was a harlot who lied to the men in the city to protect the spies. She
was lauded here for her faith. She endured this trial with the smile of
God even tho she sinned in doing it. Then you have these other
saints throughout history who were persecuted for Christ, who were by no
means perfect. But they also are lauded for their faith. God always
promises that He upholds those who fall, that His love last a life time.
He does not say that He gets angry at His children even tho we stumble,
yet He comes to our aid. God allows His children to be overcome
with a sin in order for them to see their weaknesses. But they are
brought out of that sin by His love not His anger. All of the
confessions teaching on works and sin are done out of His love. And
shall we talk about Solomon? Like what addiction did he not have? Yet
God rewarded him with most anything his heart desired.
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6092
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Whaddya Do When You "Don't Wanna?"
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on: August 29, 2008, 01:19:25 PM
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Lot's
of good and long replies. Here's a short one. When I've been to that
point, I sinned severely until GOD slaps me across the face (through
being caught by someone I didn't want to catch me), then picked me up
and let me know he loved me.
Sir, i am sorry that you have
this as a normal view of God. This is not normal. He doesnt give His
children abuse. God is perfectly able to resolve two peoples longings
who are at odds. This little verse you are thinking of is not a bare
need to keep us in line. Its within the context of having the perfect
rectitude of the situation. You must really be angry at God. Or you dont
realize your position. Do you believe that God helps those who help
themselves?
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6093
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Whaddya Do When You "Don't Wanna?"
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on: August 29, 2008, 12:55:03 PM
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I'm sorry Casey, I guess me "stay the course" advice is what you probably didn't want to hear.
I
cannot be exhorted, admonished or cautioned anymore. Like Steve said
before on a broadcast: "Obedience comes from joy - not the other way
around." My attempts at obedience have left me only dried-up and
joyless. (And in the end - disobedient!)
That is a wise teaching Steve has. The Bible, the Lord, Jesus, forgiveness, joy, it's all so counterintutive at times. Perfect love casts out fear. Then we can rise up. The joy of the Lord is my strength. I
agree, but my experience is that anger held in is a desperate weight
and the exercise of living it before Him in private has only been
helpful. Because a feeling of helplessness is tied to a worry about
ourselves and that worry is a cause of a sense of not getting what we
deserve. So we react to that in anger. Now some of that may be true. Our
problem is we dont know what is good anger and what is unrighteous
anger. So it becomes self infliction. Thats why we develop a disposition
where we react to situations that do not match our personal feelings.
Or its a loss of connection of our feelings to the circumstance. I am
not saying that doing something is going to cause us to be healed. I am
saying that most of the time we are anxious is because we are angry and
we either are not aware of it or we have not been transparent before
Him. Its not for Him, its for us. Our language to one another
is tied to our view of what is pleasing and what is dis pleasing, the
nature of forgiveness, and the view we have in getting the resolution in
His time. So that we have these spiritual longings that translate into a
certain future resolve. But then faith is those things that are hoped
for. The only two ways God deals, through redemption or through
judgment. There is no in between soulish resolve. In this sense there is
no compromising. But the disposition of grace is having the reality of
Gods perfect love translate into our having a resolve before the
resolution in time. What the righteous longs for will come to pass, what
the wicked longs for will be like chaff. So that we do not have a hope
like the world.
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6094
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Whaddya Do When You "Don't Wanna?"
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on: August 29, 2008, 12:27:38 PM
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Casey, i dont think there is anything wrong
with loosing it so to speak in the time of alone prayer. Sometimes we
hold things in and we dont know it until we just pour out our feelings
to Him. I dont think He is surprised like other people would be in group
therapy. I mean there are people in my house that hear me sometimes and
they wonder how i can say that? Well, its whatever is required to
please Him. And no man can understand another mans pain , really.
Identity is of Christ, not of men. And we all are a little crazy even
tho some of us have really thick skin. Some times we have the curse of
being too sensitive. And a lot of what goes on for being christianity is
just self religion. Cause if we feel passionate about something that is
not wrong. Even tho it may go against every thing other people are
telling us. If you are sensitive then its really hard sometimes to just
go through the motions, even tho we may want to think it doesnt affect
us.
Pour out your hearts to the Lord, and then He will give you
songs of deliverance. No one lives in you head or lives in your shoes
except God. And even tho people can help, God knows the level of
frustration and anxiety. But if we are sensitive then in the times when
we are feeling disconnected, we may try really hard to please others.
And it always leads to bondage. I mean, when Gods grace has its power
over us, then we are going to feel like the burden is lifted, at least
for awhile. If others try to take that burden then it will be according
to their experience. But with God, we can go before Him and try to get
to the bottom of it, whether its an attack of the devil by those around
us, or its a problem we are having by a circumstance or a way of
thinking that we have not seen. And the process is that we can go before
Him and describe what we are going through and then the promises of His
revelation to us will replace what any man can achieve.
Mans heart
is deep, and there are things that are there that we do not always
become aware of unless the Spirit reveals it to us. And some times these
things do not come to the surface with a simple prayer. Sometimes there
are things that require earnest prayer. Christ went through agony to
get relief. These revelations may reveal there there are people who are
not helping you along in what is going on inside of you. And i do
believe that God sends people into our lives that have a certain gift
that goes deeper than any system of thinking. Well, if the Spirit shall
make you free, you shall be free indeed. But then all that is required
is for us to tell Him about it, to see it by that experience and then to
continue in desperation before Him until He moves in us and outside of
us. I really dont know what i would do if i did not have my Psalms. When
i dont want to do it, i do it doubly hard, cause i know that resistance
is the cause of my resistance. Ive always considered the flesh like a
person that acts like a friend but is my worst enemy. I am always
thinking when i am tired that i will rest and then i will go at that
thing again. Why would we long for heaven if it was easy here? So its
always resisting me, 24 7, i just wish i had more energy and time cause i
would love to try to put that metonymy to sleep.
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6095
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Forums / Break Room / Re: Faith
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on: August 29, 2008, 11:31:03 AM
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I agree that this is a wicked and adulterous
generation. And the onus is always on the leaders of the church. If we
had been more concerned with the truth in the past generations then we
would not be in the state we are in at this present time. I mean, look
at the mentality today. Its really circuit fundamentalism. The poor have
been forgotten because the ministry has been focused on the amount of
learning and the clergy are receiving lucrative pay. How can you
identify with the poor when you are fat and happy? How can you identify
with Christ unless you have a society of the poor? Yes , we have all the
arguments. Cause its all about works when it comes to egalitarianism.
Equality of opportunity. And no one is willing to consider the place man
had in past high points in church history. The whole world system is
goods in return of services. You cant even have a relationship with a
doctor about needs any more. Look at the bottom line.
Ok, now i am in
trouble cause i am not a man pleaser. Or maybe i spend too much time
cursing the system of the world. Yea, well he who has riches without
understanding is like a beast that perishes. And really if it was a
ledger process, then the beast would be wiser than man. Cause the beast
just is able to take what he wants. But really the beast problem is
building a religion of the world for profit. Thats why men build big
houses, hoard money. Its all about the golden calf instead of a man who
had the glory on his face. The laws only only made to protect the
bottom line. So , wow, now dont we have a responsiblity to consider the
waywardness of the systems man creates? Or is that hatred for our
enemies? Now we have a real problem here. No one is able to withstand
the more profound deeper sins. So where has all that fight gone? Its not
temptation to become corrupted and depraved. Its more that we think we
are able when we become man pleasers.
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6096
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Careers and Plans
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on: August 29, 2008, 09:37:30 AM
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Theres nothing wrong with planning, but God
determines the outcome. And if He determines the ultimate outcome that
is either eternal death or eternal life, since He will bring all peoples
together before the judgment throne. So that whatever He declares at
that time is what will happen for all eternity. Then we know that He has
ordered all of these events in the knowledge He has as the future
judge. Other wise He would need to be reminded of each persons
experience. But if He is judge then He better be all knowing or we would
all be able to stand in our own arguments. But God does bring all men
to shut their mouths before Him. Who could stand before God if He judged
us according to our sins? How can we be silenced if He did not know all
of the sins of all of the world at all times?
Thank God that when
we come to Him we come to a God who knows the beginning from the end or
that He intimately knows all things. For He opens His hand all all the
creatures are fed.
And since our lives begin when we are called to
Him from all eternity, then our past sins are not brought to our
account, since He has taken care of them for all eternity, they are not
declared to be in our account as if time had a principle that could hold
us down in our guilt and shame. We have busted out of time and now we
stand in eternity before the all seeing eyes of God. And now we see with
eyes that are beyond the past in time and our future is beyond time.
Now our experience in this life is declared to be real in our position
we hold in eternity. Our past is remembered no more since we are always
looking to our calling, and that reality is our calling into a new view
of our past. We have connections to the pre existence of that word
spoken about us from the counsel of the Father into all eternity. We
hear that divine call as if He is standing there telling us in a voice
we can hear with our physical ears.
We know that our understanding of
the present circumstances and our future plans are only as good as we
can hear Him calling us into fellowship with the Spirit from our being
cause to be raised up above this earthly kingdom to that heavenly
kingdom where we receive from His providence. Now our future is far
greater than we could ever imagine. We hear Him determine to teach us
the absolute safety of all that we will need and do in the future. Since
He has shown us His goodness by how He has made all these things to
work in the universe, we know that if He has care for the smallest
particles and the number of all of these very small things, that we
being able to have a reflection of ourselves as being called from
eternity past, then we are far more able to see that we are going to
receive gifts far greater than we could ever imagine. So that what
happens in this life is only a very small gain to our knowledge compared
to growing in the knowledge of Him in all eternity.
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6097
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Open Theism
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on: August 29, 2008, 09:04:25 AM
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Ive had the same kind of reasoning at
different times in my life and that lull period has been followed by a
really big test. So i try to think that when i am coasting along so to
speak, (and forgive me if i misunderstand what you are saying) that it
is dangerous as being in a great trial. And sometimes i think that when i
get in these things were everything is smooth that He is testing me to
see if i will forget Him. Not for anything that He needs from me, but
for my own good. Because we are always to be rejoicing in Him, or being
filled with joy. And it will show in our having an understanding of
being in an active fellowship with the Spirit unto the love of our
Father through Christ. Paul states this in his letter to Corinth. God is
not to be a distant sovereign power. But we are to have a Trinitarian
experience in our walk in this life as a normal communication of our
receiving and giving. We receive many things from the order working in
the universe. The earth was made for man. But our understanding of
receiving and giving is far greater than this. This Trinitarian
fellowship, or the different communications we have with the different
Persons of the Trinity are revealed to us in how we respond to the
physical stimuli. If we are living according to the course of this
world, then we are going to be molded into that which we attach
ourselves to in this world. It starts from how we think, our personal
desires being molded by our view of things whether physical or
spiritual. And our being molded by this site of these things is directly
effected by our understanding that we gain through the Love of the
Father, by the Fellowship of the Spirit, unto the work of Christ on our
behalf. And if we believe that God is personal, then these second causes
will only be what He orders for His glory and our good.So that when we
are recieving or giving we have a personal taste of our Fathers love for
us that is wooing us to praise and adoration, or having a heart that is
after God, thinking thoughts as if God were there with hands and feet
and speaking with the sword coming from His mouth. Yes, He speaks and
salvation comes to our house, He opens His hands and we recieve food for
the day, He upholds us with His outstretched arms, He draws us in by
our spiritual view of His personal nature of providence and in our
response to Him in adoration then we have fellowship with the Spirit
through the mediation of Christ. So that , all of these spiritual sights
of God as Father, are Christ speaking to us of His image in all of this
working. We see Christs who is the image of God. And then there is a
personal communication of Him as a man, even tho He is seated in the
Heaven lies as our advocate. Have you walked with Him by the Spirit?
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6098
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Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: Victory over Lust
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on: August 28, 2008, 08:37:16 AM
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Heb 11
32. And what more shall I say?
For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of
David and Samuel and the prophets,
33. who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,
34.
quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from
weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to
flight.
35. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and
others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might
obtain a better resurrection;
36. and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment.
37.
They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they
were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in
goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
38. (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.
39. And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
40. because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
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6099
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Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: Victory over Lust
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on: August 27, 2008, 07:40:49 PM
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LuvChess
I'm praying for you, and it's clear that the Lord is leading you on a
path to change. I don't think you'd be confessing and asking for
prayers for something that wasn't on your heart from the Holy Spirit. Casey (toadbat) I understand what you are saying--but I also understand what Tom (MBG) was trying to say too. At
first glance I thought he was saying something else too until I dove
into scriptures to put into my post and boom it hit me :-) Oopse!
You ve got to mix your prayers with faith. Because if you are double minded then your not going to get the wisdom.
James 1:6. But
when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is
like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8. he is a double‑minded man, unstable in all he does. I
shouldn't speak for another either but I think Tom was trying to convey
that we should TRUST and BELIEVE what God says in His word and in what
HE did through Christ. Which I can't find fault with in any way shape
or form. LuvChess---I don't struggle with lust, but I do
struggle with being overweight and smoking. Two things that I pray
about continuously and seek the Lord to change me. But I also KNOW that
I like to eat and I like smoking- Sigh! We each have things that we battle. My
best advice to you & what I try to do in the midst of my times of
struggle---(& what Tom (MBG) I think was saying here-
His word is more important and has more success since the word is the means by which we put sin to death
-- is to continually renew my/our MIND in His word.--that translates to changing my/our thoughts & heart'(s) attitude's too. Hbr 4:12 For
the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged
sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and
marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Phl 4:8 Finally,
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right,
whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything
is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things. Whatever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable or excellent-- --that's easy.... that would be HIS WORDS! (not mine) I
understand what TB is saying, and i thank you for finding the verse in
James. Of which i have memorized the first three chapts a long time ago.
And usually i am just passing the word on. I do tend to get a little
philosophical at times. But yes, and, lets say that trying too hard and
thinking that we can work for our acceptance has consequences to our
being in a level of anxiety that is not really considered the good
concern. So that we are not resting in Christ. Now, that same
consequence can also happen as our having a disposition by not
understanding that His promises are consequential on Him as well. I mean
that He does promise to work all things out for His glory and our good.
And the use of the means of His reminding us of this is from a
consequential view of being burdened with a present struggle with
anxiety and consequentially getting relief in that struggle. I am not
sure that the past understandings of our getting acceptance by not doing
anything will consequentially cause us to persevere in that present
anxiety. So that His word would be more of a medicine than just an
understanding of His sovereign grace in that present struggle.
Here, i will depart a bit to something that is seldom talked about since
our view of the faith is more of a receiving the grace and
consequentially we are enjoying our God. But we are also to have an
offense to use, not just a defensive position. Our level of
understanding sovereign grace here is attached to His speaking to us as
our advocate in our present struggle. Thats because He consequentially
promises to speak to us and when He promises to send His Spirit, His
word is more refined than pure gold purified seven times. So that we
need to see that our union with Him has these powerful communications to
us to get that relief. He does effect all of His word. Otherwise He
could not consequentially be faithful. There is a difference
between presumption and a knowledge of what is available from our very
wealthy friends. And in this sense being stout heart ed is required.
Since our faith is from our understanding and the language of His
benefits to us. So that in this sense the use of these means is all our
consequential good. So that it is almost as if we have these spells to
cast. I mean spiritually the Lord is as present and as real as the nose
on your face. It relates to what we know of Him, as He is revealed
Himself, and what we say to Him as the truth of that revelations of
Himself is. And by no means does He want us to think that we are getting
the crumbs off of His spiritual table. But we have all of these
benefits at our calling. Who can separate us from the love of God? Can
any anxious power? No we are more than conquers through Christ our Lord.
We can be made to rest from all of the inner struggles by having Him
keep us from all of the wicked schemes and threatening of men as well as
understanding our position in His grace.But knowledge of Him is
required. I mean knowing Him personally by His word, and then
understanding what He is doing by the design He is working in our lives. But
there is a bulls eye to get to in order to more and more access His
power, or understand that He will deepen our understanding in the inner
man by speaking to Him out of an understanding of our past
communications.
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6101
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Open Theism
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on: August 27, 2008, 05:53:38 PM
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Okay,
I'm willing to consider anything once.
Willis,
If
we belive that everything is not pre-ordained or pre-destined; how does
fullfilled prophecy fit into an open theism? What would have happened
if Judas decided he wanted to be paid in land, or in gold bars instead
of 30 pieces of silver?
Am I way off track?
Joe
That's
easy, God makes it happen. How do cattle get corraled except the
cowboys herd them. Cows go one way and the cowboys move them back to
were they want them. One cow may run off but some cowpoke goes after'em.
Even though cows can try to go were they want the will of the cowboy prevails. In
a universe governed by laws that God created and set to operate
according to them, God reserves the right and power to intervene any
time and any place. That is called providence and Sovereignty. Events
move along according to the laws God has setup and when God deems He
steps in to herd things in the direction He wants, otherwise he allow
His creation to run at will (according to His laws). This makes free
will fair and also explains how God's will is done. Even if God
was surprised by things, what would it matter to him because He has All
the Power of the universe? God could stop and even rewind time if He
chose. He once made time go backward. If anyone could handle
surprises it would certainly be God. Maybe God likes to be surprised. It
might be fun for Him. He may like working on hard puzzles, I know I do.
 Thor
Now thats an interesting view. The universe is a representative republic. 
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6102
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Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: Victory over Lust
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on: August 26, 2008, 08:20:30 PM
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Heres a prayer, Our Father, you do love us
very much. And sometimes we feel as if our guilt outweighs every thing
that we think about. We go around mourning all day long. And we know
that it is by grace that you will speak your salvation to us.Even when
men around us are weak and heavy laden by their sins. Yet we know that
if we trust in our own righteousness, our own power to overcome
temptation that we will not have your goodness in the morning as you
have promised. And since you have made us to rest in you from our own
works then you hem us in on all sides by this struggle we have with our
lust for the purpose of making us feel the weight of our own sins. So
that you place curses on all of those who would trust in their own
righteousness. Oh Father, you know the longing of our hearts, you know
the desires we have to have a heart that will worship without the weight
of our guilt and sins. Keep us from the hands of the wicked, do not let
us be in the counsel of the wicked. Show us the way of rest and peace
from all schemes of the self righteous. Oh how we would long to know you
are the only one who is our salvation. Oh, keep us from willful sins.
Thank You that you promise to answer our prayers. We wait in expect ion
day and night.
You have promised us that if we just look to you
that You will hear us from heaven and as sure as the mountains over
shadow as the great heights of the earth so you hear us from Heaven and
promise to help us fully. So then, since you are in Heaven and you make
us to see all good things, then you have made us fix our eyes on you as a
slave to his master. Help us to know that gaze into the glory of your
dear Son.
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6103
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Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: Victory over Lust
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on: August 26, 2008, 07:23:49 PM
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You ve got to mix your prayers with faith.
Because if you are double minded then your not going to get the wisdom.
There is no reason that the means should not offer you consequences. If
you pray and read the scripture then you must trust God, or give it over
to Him. And you need to persevere through the trial in prayer. His word
is more important and has more success since the word is the means by
which we put sin to death. If you are depending on men over God then you
will not endure through faith.
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