There
is a delayed assurance that comes after experiencing the effects of
spiritual illumination. When we tarry long in prayer we begin to have a
sense of Gods desire so that our well of desire is transformed into a
longing for God that we cannot completely explain or that we ever have
complete satisfaction. As the psalmist would cry out to God in an order
of perfect spiritual poetry we learn that our lives are Gods prose so
that we are not only surrounded by God but we are full of Gods fullness.
We are through and through in a very uncommon presence that is beyond
any thing we can describe. We sense the royalty of kings, as if we were
ruling over the nations and what we said would be law. In Gods presence
we feel so uninhibited that our supernatural satisfaction causes us to
rest in Christ in a new dimension of Spirit controlled space.
When
we cry out day and night we begin to have such longings for God that we
sometime forget our consciousness of time. Our days turn into nights
these transitional sensations of seasons give way in our longings for
eternity outside of seasons. We long for Christ. We are sick in love.
| 7795
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Operating In The Gifts...
|
on: March 02, 2007, 08:42:59 AM
|
Speaking
in tounges can be both public and private. So it dosent just fall under
the paradigm of church order. Thats why the profound experience needs
to be addressed and not only the rules. I do not speak in tongues. That
sect of the church has really gone from the gifts of the Spirit to a
gospel that is just covetous. There is no longer the focus on tongues
and the gifts , but there really is a works righteousness by focusing on
human faith as the agency to get things. So in that the historical
focus on tongues evolved into a doctrine of man.
My experience
in these things in the paradigm of the \"spiritual experience\" has been
that there is a work of the Spirit that goes beyond description. This
is the supernatural element of the faith. We should be super-naturalist
to the core. We should have much experience of the Holy Spirits leading
in these experiences or maybe we are just worshiping our doctrine. The
two extremes are so easy to fall into. Just focusing on doctrine never
curbed a mind full of fear, worry, and lust. Reducing religion to an
experience is very shallow. And really we are all so very susceptible to
believing the hype about experience and we become the focus of our
faith.
There is no direct statement in scripture that tongues
have ceased. So if any one has a pray language that involves very high
emotional experiences , i dont see any thing wrong with that . In the
public arena tho there must be regulated worship or it is suspect.
I
hate to talk about personal experience but unless we are having some
personal meetings in the word and the Spirit then we are really not
understanding the nature of the christian faith and how we work these
things out. Unless our doctrine leads to experiencing things that we
cannot explain then we are very short of the supernatural. My experience
in these things has been that if there is no control of the thoughts
then there will be confusion as to the nature of the experience, the
agency of that experience , and the nature of the effects of that
experience. We are in a battle for the mind, and even tho prayer and
living our lives in this world involves an attitude of prayer, i think
that this can be a cop out. Our minds are always the caboose that drives
experience. And experience is always a process in which time slows down
so that we are more aware of the presence of the Holy Spirit than we are
of the time element. In eternity we do not experience the effects of
time, there is no schedule, and really that which we can not explain
involves timeless experience. In eternity we bring our minds with us so
that the experience of seeing Christ face to face is the full revelation
of joy and comfort in this face to face encounter. We get a taste of
that now, we are dead to sin in our bodies , but alive to Christ in our
spirits. And our experience does not focus on the deadliness that resides
in our bodies because of sin because we have the Spirit who gives life
to our mortal bodies. That is we are sealed with the Spirit and we
experience His life giving effects as if we were in heaven but only partially
|
7799
|
Forums / Main Forum / For Lack Of Knowledge...
|
on: March 01, 2007, 01:57:26 PM
|
Divine knowledge is give to us at salvation. We here the word, that is knowledge
and then the Holy Spirit convinces us that we are sinners. When we get
divine knowledge we also get spiritual senses. We begin to see ourselves
as we really are before God, we see Christ as our only hope. So that in
knowing we are pleased with the understanding we have of Christ. This is
the process by which we are sanctified. The problem today is that we
place our faith in front of our knowledge. We look at our believing in
Christ as the reason that we are a christian. This deception is the
mother of all pragmatic circular thinking. And i mean pragmatic in the
bad sense. Most people do not look at religion as logical. I mean they
would learn their occupation by gaining the proper knowledge and then
using it to do the job, but in religion we are under such a delusion of
the anti proposition crowd and the science has all the answers crowd
that we fail to see the importance of Gods knowledge and the growing in
the knowledge. We fail to really think through the origins of the
universe , the cause and effect relationship, and the logical necessity
of the cross as the means by which we look at all of life.
| 7815
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Preaching Morality, While Being Immoral.
|
on: February 27, 2007, 04:51:14 AM
|
I am wondering. While it is true that its annoying to have immoral
people pointing out particular sins that are on their list of the worst
ones or whatever, does that change our responsibility to repent,
confess, ask for forgiveness for those very sins?
Yes
we need to always be confessing. If we are beggars then thats what
beggars do. And our confession should not only be on the sins of
coveting, slander, stealing, cursing, over eating, but we should confess
that we are not loving Him with all of our hearts , minds and wills. We
should not only confess but we should mourn over or lethargic state. He
deserves our entire being in worship, He deserves our thanking Him at
every thing that comes into our lives, He deserves us thanking Him that
we still have a heart beat. In confessing our weakness do to sin we are
in an essence telling Him that He has a rite to do as He pleases in our
lives because we only know His presence when we feel weak and helpless.
We must choose to focus on Him, and if He is our all in all then we
should be totally honest with Him. He is not asking us to make
confession like a game, or to make confession like a chore. No
confession is coming before Him and pouring out our hearts to Him so
that He can get to the bottom of our hearts with His peace and
forgiveness. Confession is part of an on going relationship in which we
have an understanding of the depth of His love and faithfulness to us
and we see our need for Him or we will die.
Confession is coming
near to Him in prayer, knowing that we have left all of our pain, and
our cares , and our wants and our praise before His throne, and He has
wrapped His arms around us and spoken peace to us so that we are silent
before Him as He pours out His love in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
The purpose of confession is not to have some kind of human good
feeling, no the purpose of confession is to get to the bottom of what is
in our souls and having God speak such peace to our souls that we know
we have met Him!
Perhaps we should confess and repent of
the things that Paul confessed to struggling with; Dead works,
specifically trying to pleasing God based on what to you do or do not
do. Such an approach to God is shared by every other religion in the
world. If pleasing God can be achieved by those means, why then
did Christ have to die? We could just get "serious" about our religious
observance and the cross could be avoided altogether. Absurd? Precisely! Just
like we claim to be saved by grace (unmerited favor) and in the same
breath recite the things we must do (or not do) to "qualify" for grace. If
grace is indeed unmerited or undeserved favor, then striving to improve
upon our position by devotion or charity (or any other good and noble
thing) is equally absurd and neglecting to relate to God by the means He
spent so much to provide. "What must we do to do the works that God requires? - Jesus answered and said "believe in the one He has sent"" Paul
preached repentance from dead works, which was in his case trying to
please God by your achievements, devotion, zeal or fervency. Being the
pharisee of pharisees was not enough even though, no religious group was
more devoted (at least outwardly) than the pharisees. Paul counted his
former devotion and background as rubbish. Paul recognized that you either believed and relied upon that belief or you did not and trusted in your own means. Remember
Cain and Able according to the writer of Hebrews Abel's offering was
made in faith whereas his brother's offerings were the works of his own
hands (one one could say his own initative) and therefore not of faith
and were rejected. We as a church would do well in my view simply
to rest in the completed work of Christ on our behalf, and rest from
our own works (as a means to God). We are PERFECT solely by virtue of
what Christ did for us on Calvary's cross and nothing else. How can one improve upon perfection? Or
do we in effect say to Christ as He hangs in torment upon that bloody
cross;"what you did is great, but no thanks, let me take it a bit
further by my good works"? Man's worship of himself through
religious devotion, no matter how noble is in itself, prideful and
undermines the efficacy of the Cross.
Thanks
Wonderer, Our confessions are imperfect. We only have Christ to claim
as our righteousness. Even our best prayers are like filthy rags in the
sight of God. So its all about God, I agree.
But heres the
thing, if it was just all about God then He could leave us to rejoice in
His abilities as if He were so separated from us that He was
inaccessible or that every one is complete in Him so that there is
nothing else to depend upon. So as I have been stating there is a
balance here. And as Steve B says it is all about us.
God is the
head of His church. He has brought us all together in the church. He
has brought us together for a purpose and that is to glorify Him and
enjoy Him forever. Now if we are just focused on His sovereignty without
having fellowship with one another then we would not experience the
working out of His sovereign plan. We all have needs, and even tho God
meets all our needs by His being God, yet He has a design in really
meeting us where we are at. We are not just to suck it up and rejoice
that He is absolutely sovereign. But we come before a sovereign God who
not only deserves all the glory but He knows us intermittently. And He uses
the means to work out these things in the bottom of our hearts. These
truths must be worked out in order for us to have an assurance.
Prayer,
reading the word, fellowship, sacraments are all the means we have in
experiencing enjoying Him. So when we pray, we do it with fervor because
He deserves it to be with all of our souls and bodies. And when we read
the word we meditate on it night and day, and search for Him like gold
and silver. We always find the gold of Christ joy in the word. So that
we are filled with assurance and joy in enjoying Him forever. When we
fellowship , we exercise our gifts for His glory, so that others can
enjoy God and we can work out the terrible circumstances of loneliness,
and rejection that each one of us calvinist experience on a daily basis.
God has not just left us to receive the truth of who He is and explode
with problems. No He has left us an outlet so that we can experience
these things in a practical way in the church so that we can know that
we have been changed by how we feel.
Its the same thing with assurance.
| 7817
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Preaching Morality, While Being Immoral.
|
on: February 26, 2007, 03:35:15 PM
|
I am wondering. While it is true that its annoying to have immoral
people pointing out particular sins that are on their list of the worst
ones or whatever, does that change our responsibility to repent,
confess, ask for forgiveness for those very sins?
Yes
we need to always be confessing. If we are beggars then thats what
beggars do. And our confession should not only be on the sins of
coveting, slander, stealing, cursing, over eating, but we should confess
that we are not loving Him with all of our hearts , minds and wills. We
should not only confess but we should mourn over or lethargic state. He
deserves our entire being in worship, He deserves our thanking Him at
every thing that comes into our lives, He deserves us thanking Him that
we still have a heart beat. In confessing our weakness do to sin we are
in an essence telling Him that He has a rite to do as He pleases in our
lives because we only know His presence when we feel weak and helpless.
We must choose to focus on Him, and if He is our all in all then we
should be totally honest with Him. He is not asking us to make
confession like a game, or to make confession like a chore. No
confession is coming before Him and pouring out our hearts to Him so
that He can get to the bottom of our hearts with His peace and
forgiveness. Confession is part of an on going relationship in which we
have an understanding of the depth of His love and faithfulness to us
and we see our need for Him or we will die.
Confession is coming
near to Him in prayer, knowing that we have left all of our pain, and
our cares , and our wants and our praise before His throne, and He has
wrapped His arms around us and spoken peace to us so that we are silent
before Him as He pours out His love in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
The purpose of confession is not to have some kind of human good
feeling, no the purpose of confession is to get to the bottom of what is
in our souls and having God speak such peace to our souls that we know
we have met Him!
|
 Reply
 Quote
 Notify
|
|
7818
|
Forums / Main Forum / Varying Consequences Of Sin
|
on: February 26, 2007, 11:01:04 AM
|
Was the forgiveness purchased by the blood of Christ applied to us by us repenting?
Ahhh.......now the word "applied" is very interesting... now
to be drawn to the Son and the sacrifice by revelation by first
"knowing" He is God..then a conviction thus leading to repentance for
all kinds of sins and "sin" in general..i remember getting a revelation
that He is the true and living God..and by that presence conviction to
repentance followed.. now speaking in time sequence or lack of in light of the eternal the application could be one and the same... so therefore do we lead people to Jesus or Repentance first? just some thoughts...I know how I think about it..what do you think?
People
have the wrong conception of repentance. All of us are products of our environment. We think that repentance is telling God we are sorry and to
come into our hearts and save us. We tell God we are going to give up
the smoking, the drinking, the lusting etc. We think that this one time
prayer will change our lives forever. We think that because we got rid
of our guilt feelings at the time of our being saved that we experienced
salvation. But then the feelings leave us and we fall back into a
pattern of guilt and blame. We struggle with the confidence that we are
forgiven, and at some point God seems farther away than He ever was prior to our prayer for salvation.
We see people who are on tv,
in church, and as we are talking to people throughout the day who tell
us of the time that they were saved and they tell us the their lives
have changed forever. They have repented and have stopped the former
sins that they once partook in , and we think that because they repented
they no longer do those things. But then we walk away feeling very
small because we know since that time we asked Christ into our hearts
we have been struggling with the same sins we repented for when we were
saved. So we conclude that the power to overcome sin was not really
supernatural but it was because there was an effort on our part so that
we begin to go to God as a task master, we begin to go to the word to
feel guilty and then we try to do better. And when we leave a certain
sin for awhile we think that we have repented. But then we fall back
into that pattern and we begin to dig ourselves out of our sin again. We
are naturally self motivated as fallen saints. We believe that God is
telling us something when we are confronted with the law and He is
telling us that we are wrong and we need to repent and quit the sinning.
And so we go through this process as a way of our christian life
experience.
We go from guilt to blame to self effort to sin. Paul
even says that when we are confronted with the law that we are going to
want to sin even more. Try to tell a person that he cannot do something
and he is going to want to do that thing. We become more two faced than
the bum begging for food and money. After a while we either resign ourselves to a life of servitude to our leaders or we give up and walk
away. We conclude that God is a hard task master.
All of us go
through this self righteous process at some point in our christian
experience or we never really graduate into an understanding of Gods
love and faithfulness. We conclude that if we sin it is the worse time
to go to our Father, and if we have quit a certain sin then it is our
time to bask in His love. We live our lives in self repentance. We live
our lives on the voices we have in our heads as to God and our
conscience and when He speaks to us and what we are to feel and do in
our action. Our natural experience in these things between the law and
gospel are really screw up and our feelings and our thinking are so unnatural that we begin to live as if feeling was an enemy and doing was
all of salvation. We live not really knowing what is going on inside and
in our resignation we just begin to act because everyone else is doing
it.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7819
|
Forums / Main Forum / Blame Vs Responsibility
|
on: February 26, 2007, 06:08:19 AM
|
what is the difference between blaming yourself and taking personal responsibility yourself?
This is kind of an operational definition of being responsible: - You are accountable for your actions. - You accept the consequences of your actions. - When you break it, you fix it. "Blaming yourself" is bullet one above - holding yourself accountable for your failures. Bullet three is the kicker, because while you fix what you can, some things you can't fix.
The
law is no longer our school master. We live according to the Spirit. We
are not required to give God the crumbs of obedience. We are required
to obey perfectly. But we can never obey perfectly in this life because
we are sinners. Thats why we have someone else in whom we trust and
rejoice that has gone before us and lived a perfectly righteous life. He
has imputed to our account His righteousness. Now we can obey
perfectly, not by our working for a wage righteousness but by Him
covering over all of our sins.
That is why He does not treat us
as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. If He did
then Christ would have died in vain. That is why we are required to
cover over others faults in the fellowship of the saints. Thats why we
are to be gracious to the sinner , and graciousness is treating a sinner
like a son who has come home to his father without requiring payment
for his sin. Thats how God as Father treats us.
You will never
get better if you must take care of your blame and guilt before you go
to God . You go to Him just as you are, because He knows you are weak,
He knows your frame. His forgiveness in Christ is all you need. On this
earth we will struggle with sin and the consequences, but we look
forward to a day when there will be no more struggle and no more sin. We
live in that reality.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7820
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Catholic Apologists
|
on: February 25, 2007, 05:22:33 PM
|
MBG, This is a clear case of scripture interpreting scripture, because in vs 28 Peter gives the interpretation of the vision.
Act
10:28Â And he said to them, *Ye* know how it is unlawful for a Jew to
be joined or come to one of a strange race, and to *me* God has shewn to call no man common or unclean.
It
wasn't the animals that Peter was to accept as 'clean' it was the
gentiles who had been seen as unclean by the Jews. They were now clean
in the sense that they were to be accepted into Israel through the
Gospel. The gift of the Holy Spirit confirmed this to Peter. The
food interpretation is read into the text by those who wish it to read
that way and basically ignores Peter's real interpretation. Thor The
Kosher food Commandments were never changed, but maybe the gentiles are
exempt...that’s a problem and question I have. Only Jesus can tell
us when He returns. After 2000 years, there is just too much confusion.
The problem with your interpretation is that Peter actually
became hungry in the story while he was praying. We must take it literal
because the dietary laws were no longer in effect seeing that the Paul
had turned to the gentiles and the gentiles eat everything when they
become hungry. The NT church since the beginning has not followed the
dietary laws of the OT. These laws were no longer in effect because the
eating involved the sacrifice of animals , and there are no longer any
sacrifices necessary since Christ. The point is that it is impossible to
follow the ceremonial laws since the sacrificial system was abolished
and the dietary laws were part of the sacrificial system.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7821
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Catholic Apologists
|
on: February 25, 2007, 04:02:34 PM
|
|
Acts 10:10. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance;
11. and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground,
12. and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air.
13. A voice came to him, \"Get up, Peter, kill and eat!\"
14. But Peter said, \"By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.\"
15. Again a voice came to him a second time, \"What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.\"
16. This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.
If i am not mistaken this even was repeated 3 times as a testimony. There was a reason for the repetition wouldn't you think?
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7822
|
Forums / Main Forum / Pervasive Sin
|
on: February 25, 2007, 01:40:51 PM
|
|
The
pervasiveness of sin in us is like an ocean of corruption and its waves
one after one thrashing against us as we lay in the shallow water going
through this life. That is why His waves of grace are far more
thundering than the waves of sin. Repentance is living in the reality of
who we are before a holy God, and rejoicing in His unfailing love to us
in Christ. When we begin to view ourselves as being able to get a grip
on the sin in our lives is when we fail to understand our position
before a holy God.
We are always in the cave of the prison of
sin. We are always aware that there really is only one who cares for us
because there is only one who knows the deepness of our need in our sin.
He is ever there as a mediator to rescue us from ourselves and the awareness of having no hope as we face ourselves before a holy God. Yes
Christ is our advocate and our Father loves us in Christ and it is in
this relationship that we experience the ultimate refuge from our
prisons of besetting sins. We may come to Him and find relief at any
time of the day, with any of the worse of sins. While men see the
outside and react to our sin, Christ looks at the healing and becomes
our refuge. While we think our sin is ended His care for us, we are
brought to that unfailing love that speaks of a greater grace than our
need for acceptance. He comes not only to forgive, but He comes to
rescue us from those who are against us. He is concerned about every
need for acceptance as well as for our peace. Christ is the only refuge
for a person who is imprisoned with a bad habit.
He must be
where we go to or we will not experience His hand of grace. He must meet
us in our most desperate cave and accept us ,sin and all. Even tho we
have the world condemning us and seeking us in our prison of sin ,
Christ is the answer to our desperation. Oh, He will guide you into the prison, to show you the extent of His faithfulness and love, and when
He is done He will bring all of the saints to gather around you and
comfort you. Christ is going to order your complete victory, and will
bring about assurance beyond your cave. He will uphold you by the
healing fellowship of the saints. You will know that you take refuge in a
good advocate.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7823
|
Forums / Main Forum / Varying Consequences Of Sin
|
on: February 25, 2007, 01:13:37 PM
|
There is no forgiveness for sin without shedding of blood. Check the
Law of Moses. There was only one way into The Tabernacle, and blood was
required for forgiveness. We were purchased with the price of blood that
Jesus shed; In the crown of thorns they pressed into His head with
mockery "The King Of The Jews"; by the blood that was shed with the 39
lashes "By His stripes we are healed"; and the blood from His hands and
feet as he was crucified. He is the One Way into clean the consequential
debt of sin, providing forgiveness before the Living God. The curtain
was torn.
Was the forgiveness purchased by the blood of Christ applied to us by us repenting?
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7824
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Comparisions Between The True -false Church Calvin
|
on: February 25, 2007, 01:03:57 PM
|
|
(The Roman Church compared with ancient Israel as to worship and jurisdiction, 7-11)
7. The condition of the Roman Church resembles that of Israel under Jeroboam
The
place which we ought to assign to all the churches on which the tyranny
of the Romish idol has seized will better appear if we compare them
with the ancient Israelite Church, as delineated by the prophets. So
long as the Jews and Israelite's persisted in the laws of the covenant, a
true Church existed among them; in other words, they by the kindness of
God obtained the benefits of a Church. True doctrine was contained in
the law, and the ministry of it was committed to the prophets and
priests. They were initiated in religion by the sign of circumcision,
and by the other sacraments trained and confirmed in the faith. There
can be no doubt that the titles with which the Lord honored his Church
were applicable to their society. After they forsook the law of the
Lord, and degenerated into idolatry and superstition, they partly lost
the privilege. For who can presume to deny the title of the Church to
those with whom the Lord deposited the preaching of his word and the
observance of his mysteries? On the other hand, who may presume to give
the name of Church, without reservation, to that assembly by which the
word of God is openly and with impunity trampled under foot - where his
ministry, its chief support, and the very soul of the Church, is
destroyed?
8. Despite the idolatry of the Jews, their church remained
What
then? (some one will say;) was there not a particle of the Church left
to the Jews from the date of their revolt to idolatry? The answer is
easy. First, I say that in the defection itself there were several
gradations; for we cannot hold that the lapses by which both Judas and
Israel turned aside from the pure worship of God were the same.
Jeroboam, when he fabricated the calves against the express prohibition
of God, and dedicated an unlawful place for worship, corrupted religion
entirely. The Jews became degenerate in manners and superstitious
opinions before they made any improper change in the external form of
religion. For although they had adopted many perverse ceremonies under
Rehoboam, yet, as the doctrine of the law and the priesthood, and the
rites which God had instituted, continued at Jerusalem the pious still
had the Church in a tolerable state. In regard to the Israelite's,
matters which, up to the time of Ahab, had certainly not been reformed,
then became worse. Those who succeeded him, until the overthrow of the
kingdom, were partly like him, and partly (when they wished to be
somewhat better) followed the example of Jeroboam, while and without
exceptions were wicked and idolatrous. In Judea different changes now
and then took place, some kings corrupting the worship of God by false
and superstitious inventions, and others attempting to reform it, until,
at length, the priests themselves polluted the temple of God by profane
and abominable rites.
|
 Remove
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7825
|
Forums / Main Forum / Blame Vs Responsibility
|
on: February 25, 2007, 12:58:43 PM
|
Here is a thought I had today in the car...Do we blame God for our
fallen nature or take responsibility for our sin? What would be the out
come?
I take it that you are really sincere about repentance. I
mean my picture of you is that you have had alot of victories over bad
habits that you did to your self in the past. And i guess by your answer
that you feel pretty good about overcoming some of these bad habits by
you really getting serious before God. Are you saying this?
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7828
|
Forums / Main Forum / Blame Vs Responsibility
|
on: February 25, 2007, 08:22:04 AM
|
Taking
personal responsibility can come out of pride also. If every one in a
group of people define the level of pain one needs to go through in
order to evidence blame , then complying with that level of pain in the
blame may be to elevate one to a position of authority as an example of
true repentance. Thats why if we are defining truth of the consequences
of sin by the level of pain we experience then the goal to which we are achieving is to get from one level of pain to another or to focus on us
by our pain. And if the pain is gone then we have achieved our goal and
we can then feel proud of ourselves in going from pain to a painless achievement. And in a culture that views truth through the paradigm of
pain, we define repentance in that human experience.
Our problem
is much deeper than pain. Our problem is the corruption of our view of
ourselves because we are sinners. The truth is that our determination is
not the focus of sin, but we sin because we are sinners. We choose to
sin because we are corrupted in every area of our being. Even if we were
to feel no pain, we still would be just as ugly against the standard of
Christ righteousness as if we were under the most sever pain. And the
pain of guilt is not diminished as a result of what we experience by our
confession. Truth defines who we are and what we need. Pain and guilt
were put on Christ at the cross and at the cross it was fully satisfied.
Every person looks different when they repent. Not every person
experiences the same effects as a result of a human confession.
Not
every person experiences the same amount of pain as a result of sin.
The point is that we really are not the focus. And alot of our pain is a
result not of our guilt and shame but is a result of our focus. Divine knowledge by the Spirit is a friend that comes along side of us to teach
us to not look at ourselves so much and to look on Christ as the object
of our joy,peace, patience, kindness etc. We can experience forgiveness
by focusing on the object of our faith, because forgiveness is 100
percent in Him.
|
7835
|
Forums / Theology Forum / "scripture Alone " Not Biblical
|
on: February 24, 2007, 10:40:18 AM
|
I dont know about that. I agree that homosexuality is not only sinful but is a sin against our personal
existence in this world, sota like spiritual suicide. But yet there is
some goodness in knowing ones position before a holy God. I have seen
people who go around making others feel guilty by quoting the no
fornicators, no idolators will enter the kingdom of God , who have less
of an understanding of themselves before God than the homosexual who is struggling to overcome that life style. Self righteousness was condemned
by our Lord more than any other form of sin.
| 7843
|
Forums / Main Forum / What Does It Really Mean?
|
on: February 19, 2007, 10:01:24 AM
|
This
is a very complicated teaching. There is only one authority and that is
Jesus Christ. He is the only one who gives authority and He is the only
one who decides who has authority by directing, guiding, and sealing
that person in any position of authority. Any other authority outside of
the authority of Christ is cult authority.
We who are in
authority as fathers, church members, citizens, and church leaders ,
only are authoritative as we submit to Christ kingdom principles. All
authority outside of the commands of scripture are cultist. As high priest of our families we are directed by Christ to protect our families
so that our family structure be protected from other dangerous
teachings out of mans authority. We as fathers are to protect our
families not only from physical harm but from secularism, false
teaching, and any principles that would cause us to lose authority in
our priestly roles with our wives and children. This principle of
protection expands even to church leaders who are the Shepherds who
protect the sheep from false teaching and the cultist behavior that
comes out of that Christ-less paradigm. Our roles as leaders as high priest and our responsibility extent to a world view and not just to a
religious mysticism. We have a big hill to climb in the present state
of our world. We are only as authoritative as we submit to the principles
of scripture and stand against the world ,flesh and the devil. All other
forms of authority are cultist.
| 7850
|
Forums / Main Forum / Why Faith Is A Must
|
on: February 15, 2007, 05:44:55 AM
|
|
I
think we need to be careful not to portray a guilty view of faith. We
have received every by grace. We live in grace. God is a God of
righteousness, but we being depraved are only in need of His
righteousness and acceptance. What every trial you are going through is
just a temporary momentary affliction. We have a home in the future that
is so much greater than any thing we go through on this earth . We
share in the riches of our Savior, who loves us with an everlasting
love. Oh the love of Jesus , sweet and kind, He ever stands in our stead
, forgiving and full of mercy. Oh what a Sweet Savior,He calls and
bids us to come and lay at His feet. He calls us to pour out our hearts
before Him. He has given us all we need to live this life. We have been
give life in Christ. We no longer are under the pangs of this earthly
sorrow. Christ has come from His kingly abode to make us all kings and priest. He will pull down the enemies. He will put every thing under His
feet.
Its not a matter of how, but it is a matter of when. We
have only to rejoice all of our days. There is no remorse in Him. There
really are no regrets in Him. He will save to the utmost who come to
Him. He has the power in His rite hand to draw us to come to Him for
mercy. In the heart of heaven is the restful abode for our hearts on
earth. He is all we need to comfort our every pain. Christ loves us in
our deepest hell. Christ comes to us in our most anxious trial, to bid
us to lay it at His feet. He has every thing under control. We only need
to talk to Him, we only need to tell Him of our pain. Glory be to Jesus
who has given us His righteousness. Glory be to Him who has finished
the work to be done. We gaze on Him and we are changed. We can live in
rejoicing as we pour out our pain to Him. He will take it and give us
hearts of rejoicing. We will feel like a feather. Oh to float on Gods
comfort. Gods love is just so full that we live to feel it moment by
moment. The comfort He gives goes farther, more deeper than the deepest
sea, greater than the highest mountain, farther than the eye can see. He
is all in all. Praise Him Give Him ,His riteful place. Give Him the
glory He deserves. We praise you this day Lord!
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
7851
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Catholic Apologists
|
on: February 14, 2007, 04:25:19 AM
|
. . . . . .††â€
Dear Brother mbG,
.
. ."I dont want to open a can of worms Lrx, but my next question after
you seek and find is what do you find? Can you propose something?"
. .I'm not a fish fisherman, but that sounds like great bait. Both questions are excellent.
.
.The second first: I consider this process to be normative and
life-giving to the Body of Christ. It also is an exquisite check and
balance, for any seeking and listening Christian has the responsibility
to say to me (as a particular example), "I really have some reservations
about what you feel the Lord is saying, and we need to wait on His
confirmation or correction." Further, this extends to other areas such
as the proper "shaping up" just witnessed by our brothers.
.
.Addressing your first question in this context of the Body, it is
apparent that different persons have different concerns, so that seeking
God's knowledge and opinions will occasion a wide variety of
information and understanding. I have a brother in Christ who has his
PhD in chemistry and was involved intensively in research. He spent a
good bit of time asking the Lord specific questions about his work and
as a consequence received at least 17 patents, for which he gives the
credit (= glory) to the Lord. This is similar to George Washington
Carver's development of the many uses for peanuts.
. .This same man
with wife and friends had a quiet (no publicity) and effective healing
and deliverance ministry (again the Body). Words of knoledge and wisdom
are very helpful in ministering Christ's healing grace; deliverance is
generally impossible without.
. .My primary concern, of course, has
to do with understanding and interpreting the Holy Scriptures. Without
His counsel and guidance, I was and would be limited to snorkeling and
two-dimensional human reasoning and perception of the Bible. Should I be
puffed up about this? Since it is by His graciousness and is further
available in the normative Christian life for all Christians, how can I
consider myself other than average (and less than Peach)? Do I covet
this heritage for you? Emphatically YES, and for all other Christians,
too.
Love in Jesus. Just lovin' Jesus. Worm Bait
You
seem to be fixated on Gods communication directly to you. This is
terribly complex because when we are dealing in the inanimate world
there are so man unexplained variations of communication. Maybe the
messages we imagine that we hear are from our view of what we imagine we
are. And i think that we spend alot of time thinking that we can
examine our own hearts by trying to figure out by imagining who we are
in light of our limited knowledge of who we really are before God. And if
we could see ourselves as God sees us then compare that to how we view
ourselves we could see how much our imagination is determined by the
physical nature of our view of who we really are.
That is why in
communication we view things in chiefly in a vocal sense. We imagine
that how we receive an idea is through hearing chiefly. Gods essence far
succeeds those physical communicable properties in the inanimate
world of words. So what we imagine communication to be is very limited.
Our view of communication comes in a connection between to self
conscious creations. Our views in that relationship of receiving through
our ears creates its own reality of who we think we are as social
creatures. Our view of who God is comes from our sense of how we view
our earthly relationships.
But Gods communication is so much
greater than any thing we could imagine it to be. And really in order
for us to have a true sense of Gods nature we must think outside the
box, we must view God as beyond and outside of our limited ability of receiving messages and giving messages. God sorta engulfs our imagined views of what we are thinking He is saying to us. His communication to
us transpires in more of a vacuum created by His communicable
properties. Its as if an atomic bomb went off and we were disintegrated
in the vacuum of that powerful blast, not even receiving the heat from
it. In Gods presence communicated we become very confused. We become
over whelmed. We become weak.
Our view of ourselves has very
little to do with what really is in light of Gods view of who we are.
And we spend alot of time trying to figure out what we are good at and
areas we have difficulty in. Our mode of living or the health of our
thinking patterns is created by the imagination of our self reflection
that is so corrupted with preconceived views of these physical communicable properties that we fail to view ourselves in light of
Gods inconceivable communicable abilities.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7852
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Catholic Apologists
|
on: February 13, 2007, 04:20:17 PM
|
LRx, I am wondering. At this moment 51% of your posts have been in the "Theology Forum".
You
seem to dismiss "theology" pretty much, yet are apparently drawn to the
part of the forum designated for it. Its interesting anyway to me.
As
for theology, anyone that wants to can embrace it, or dismiss it in
general, but all believers to some degree organize their understanding
and thoughts of God in some form or other in their minds. As soon as
they do that, they have a "theology" whether they call it that or not.
I
don't find myself disagreeing much with what you believe, but I feel it
is nnecessarily agitating to others when you address them with a tone
that implies a spiritual superiority.
I am not saying this to stir anything up either.
. . . . . .†††Dear Brothers Jeffrey and ML, .
.Realizing that sackcloth and ashes avail little, I simply confess that
you both are absolutely right, which brings it down to less than 460
screw-ups remaining for me to get straightened out. . . ."LRx, I am wondering. At this moment 51% of your posts have been in the "Theology Forum". You seem to dismiss "theology" pretty much, yet are apparently drawn to the part of the forum designated for it." .
.An apt question. I am anti-theological in every sense in which it is
contrary to the Holy Scriptures and am apparently tilting at about 19
centuries of windmills. I do not object to Greek understanding when it
illuminates the Bible, but to impose the matrices of Greek philosophy
and Roman (not RC per se) juridical thinking upon God's revelation is an
abomination. We fight tooth and nail agsinst secular intrusions upon
the faith, yet, without a qualm, we swallow whole cloth the
secularizations that usurped biblical thinking from the 2nd through the
17th centuries. However, since I am in the Reformed Tradition (not the
rigid Calvinistic branch), my critiques are centered there, with some
exception. I have no idea of what Forum might be devised to refute the
vagaries of Theology instead of the Theology Forum. . . ."As for
theology . . . all believers to some degree organize their understanding
and thoughts of God in some form or other in their minds. As soon as
they do that, they have a "theology" whether they call it that or not." .
.So I've been told. And, realizing that we have been "Christianly
educated" to think that this is the only way to understand the Bible, I
would like to posit that this is is simply not so. I am confident that
both Retro and Thor understand that Jewish (biblical) thinking and
interpretation is as radically different from "theological" as poetry is
from prose. We interpret (and categorize) the Scriptures prosaically
because we love propositional thinking and can only think relationally
in a superficial and 'prosaic' manner. . .The healthy alternative to
theology that I propose is Christian Midrash, Darash meaning "seek" and
Midrash, roughly, "the result of seeking". Jesus said, "Seek and ye
shall find." If (since) that promise is valid and The Holy Spirit is
alive and well to "lead us into all truth" -- contrary to the dogmas of
the Cessationists and Grego/Mariner -- we are all (who have been born of
God) recipients (heirs) of His promises yesterday, today and forever. .
.Naturally, this is all very threatening to Western Christianity and
Reformed Theology in particular, to whom and to which 'theology' has
become a security blanket. So consider me like unto Snoopy vs. Linus. .
.None of this excuses my lack of charity and gentleness, but I hope it
helps explaining why I insist that Peach (and other women on the Forum)
are smarter than I am. Love in Jesus. Just lovin' Jesus.
I
dont want to open a can of worms Lrx, but my next question after you
seek and find is what do you find? Can you propose something? 
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7853
|
Forums / Main Forum / Pervasive Sin
|
on: February 13, 2007, 12:49:36 PM
|
HUGE question, Tom. One with many implications. I'm curious to see how
far this thread goes, because it is my opinion that we've taken the
gospel of grace and turned it on it's side.
I'll stick with a bit of Romans 7 and a dash of Galatians 3:3.
Paul
said, what i want to do i do not do but what i hate that is what i do.
God disciplines us in this life because we are His children and because
we stumble into sin. If we looked at the believers life we would not say
that getting better is necessarily an evidence of a person being a
christian. Because God does the saving, and it is a secret work of the
Holy Spirit we do not know at any point whether a person is a christian
or not. And there are times when even believers fall into sin and only
through repentance and the upholding of the saints does he get through
it and its consequences.
Sin is much deeper than we think it is
as it is like a tree that goes deep down into our souls. Unless we cut
at the root we will only be going through an endless self deception as
to getting at the root of sin. And so we are to use the means to get to
the sin in our lives. We are to live in repentance every day. But we are
also in need of seeing that God gives repentance in His time, He works
repentance in us. We are not only to depend on Christ to cleanse us but
we are to morn over our own sin and always confessing it. We are to use
the word of God to get down to the roots of sin.
Today we all are
used to short cuts to over come sin. We just focus on the outside and
we do not realize that for every unmortified sin we have a root that is
much deeper than the we see. A christian can fall into sin for many
reasons. One is because God wants to show that person his real position
in himself before God so that he will learn to not trust in himself but
in Christ alone. Most christians do not really understand the depth of
sin. We live thinking that if we stop some sin then we will be accepted
before God. We wonder why life is so difficult and we are so sorrowful
thinking that we do not deserve what is coming to us. We deceive
ourselves into thinking that our sin is not that big. But a true saint
is aware of how much sin is there in his heart and he is aware of its
effects in his life. And that awareness causes him to live a life of
repentance , a life of confession, a life of crying out to God and
waiting upon God for forgiveness. He waits more than the watchmen wait
for the morning. He waits for God to speak peace to his soul, he waits
for God to put an end to the sin that so easily besets him.
A
mature saint fears and reverences God because he knows that God gives
forgiveness. He knows that if it were left up to him that there would be
no forgiveness, there would be no hope. In God alone does a believer
seek forgiveness. In God alone does one experience forgiveness. Unless
our attitudes are changed about sin we will live in self righteous
confidence about overcoming sin. God does us sin in our lives for a
purpose. We are really humbled under the dominance of sin. Unless we are
brought down under the power of some besetting sin we will never call
on God to come to our rescue. We will only be like the pharisee thinking
that we have the power in ourselves or that we can depend on man to
help us to gain the victory.
The Spirit and the word are the
means to over come sin. God gives the victory in His time. We look to
Christ as our only hope because our righteousness is in Christ alone. We
recognize that we will face many times where sin is so big before our
eyes that we cannot look up. We are there in this terrible situation
that God has brought about and we are bringing it before God day and
night. The people around us are not seeking our best but their attitudes
are just like the wicked. There is no support from the wicked. Only
those who have been convinced about the nature of their own sin will see
that under-girding someone who is struggling with sin in his own life is
the goodness of God worked out in the christian community. There are
those who struggle with some besetting sins , and who are before the
throne night and day, pleading for victory. There are those who are
calling out to God for the time and the hour. Then there are the self
righteous who think they have arrive and they make their lives the
center of attention. They parade their lives around like they have it
all together and the rest of the world is condemned by their lives.
Christians are not like that, no christians are so familiar with
repentance that they seek God night and day in fasting and prayer for
one another. They do not leave any thing up to human ingenuity. No they
are the ones who are the lowly, the repentant, the struggling ones ,
who are at times so humbled to think that they are the worse of sinners.
If
you want to learn how to repent , then you are going to have big faith
and you are going to mess up. If you want to be a pharisee then you are
going to hide in a room and think that you are perfect. When God reveals
Himself to a man, God also convinces that man of His deep need for a Savior. Only those who struggle with besetting sins will be able to
help others with sin.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7854
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Catholic Apologists
|
on: February 13, 2007, 10:12:35 AM
|
Would you give up your theology for Jesus?
Wow
, what a question. The truth of theology is the axis by which human
experience is defined and worked out in a theo concentric view of sovereign
grace as apposed to an animistic view of experience in the paradigm
of narcissism. It is as deep and wide a gulf as the difference between
a dicotomist or a tri cotomist.
. . . . . .††Dear brother mbG, .
.My son, the programmer, pronounces it G.I. Joe, which, in my days of
programming in BASIC we called GIGO. I don't know where you accumulated
all this convoluted and contorted Garbage, but it illustrates my former
observation that theologians have a dual propensity (1) to think like
old maids and (2) to obfuscate. By those standards I congratulate you
for attaining both the zenith and nadir simultaneously. In your more
extended monologue, you made mention of the difference between dichotomy
and trichotomy (note sp.) and upon searching my dictionary, discovered
that one definition had to do with lunar phases. My agile mind
immediately jumped to two possible understandings of what you were
trying to communicate: (1) The sheer lunacy of theology, and/or (2)
Theology is an intellectual manifestation of barking at the moon. I
concede to your wisdom and thank you for the illuminating clarification. .
.Back to the question, Would you give up your theology for Jesus? Your
initial response ("Wow, what a question.") is enigmatic. Lacking a
simple "yes" or"no", my callous interpretation stemming from your
further irrelevant response is that you are basically saying, "Frankly,
my dear, I don't give ada mn!" . .Another question, mbG: Did you go to seminary? If so, let me guess that it was Gordon Campbell Pea Soup Factory. Right? .
.Prepare yourself for the coup de grace: Systematic theology is to the
Holy Scriptures as a Mercator projection is to a globe. You are a basic
Flatlander and cannot possibly comprehend the truth of Jesus, Who is The
Truth, nor understand the Bible. Get rid of your binoculars and take a
long look at Him. No distortion -- just a plain and simple view of the
greatest intellect that ever walked the face of the earth. Compared to
Him, you and I are pea-brains. So quit worshiping your "brilliant
thinking" and gaze into the awesome glory of His face. Love in Jesus. Just lovin' Jesus. Pompou Sass
Lrx,
my brother, My views really are 180 degrees different from your position. Objective faith comes when the object effects the work in us.
Our faith is not the object of salvation, but Christ is the object of
our salvation. That is the reason that the cause and effect relationship
begin and end in Christ. We are not free in the sense that we share in
the effects of Christ work. Nor is there anyone good enough to effect
salvation outside of the God head. That is why we believe that in order
to love we must be loved first by Christ.
You are really
confusing the central paradigm of the view of man as he views the work
of Christ. We are unable to apprehend the object of our faith in
ourselves. We do not have any objective understanding of the complete
effect of Christ work until we realize that in order for God to be God
He must cause every effect in obtaining salvation because man unable,
that is mans faith cannot possible be an object of salvation otherwise
we could share in the effects of salvation. We need to get back to the
unable vibe of divine grace.
Christ is not supremely or example.
Christ has finished the work that we were unable to accomplish in
ourselves. On looking on the finished work of Christ we are looking on
the total effect of our ability to believe. We are looking on the only
ability we have in our faith , for apart from Him we can do nothing. Our
object is not our faith but rather it is Christ. He alone deserves all
of the glory even the effect in our believing. We do have a very
different view of the grace we have received.
|
7859
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Catholic Apologists
|
on: February 11, 2007, 04:04:40 PM
|
And
that god passively decreed that this "very good" Man was bound to sin
so this god you describe could be glorified in a perfect example of
Narcissism.
I s'pose an ominously-omni-everything god would be
entitled to be a bit narcissistic. (Not that God has any peers He needs
to show off for.) But what I see revealed in the Bible is a God who
humbles Himself in order to relate to His created beings. That is also a
grace shown to us.
. . . . . .†††. .Indeed so, Joker.
And His emptying Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made just
like us, even humbling Himself to die on the Cross, is absolutely,
totally, 180 degrees out of phase with the theology (Reformed) mbG is
portraying. I had assumed he would see the utter folly of his line of
reasoning, but instead he deduced that his logic taken to its utterly
irrational natural conclusion was my theology. Reformed theology is to
the Scriptures as hydrofluoric acid is to glass etching. It has been my
consistent experience that Reformed theologs are insufferably enamored
of their reasoning abilities, but are unable to deal with logic extended
beyond the end of their noses, and invariably resort to ad hominem
arguments. Curiouser and curiouser, I say. "Off with their heads!"
shouted the Red Queen. . .Meant to add that I have enjoyed your wry and sly sense of humor here and elsewhere. Love in Jesus. Just lovin' Jesus. Pompou Sass
If
Jesus did not receive the wrath of God and satisfy it, then it will
fall on man. If the cause of sins punishment is not God, then there is
no punishment , and if the cause of the punishment on the cross is God
then the effect of satisfaction of that punishment will come out of the
cause. So that if Christ did not effect satisfaction then it will be
effected in man. This is absolutely essential in gospel truth. Unless
you understand the cause and effect relationship of satisfaction then
your theology will be all over the place.
Your general statements above are not very convincing.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7860
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Catholic Apologists
|
on: February 11, 2007, 10:07:25 AM
|
And
that god passively decreed that this "very good" Man was bound to sin
so this god you describe could be glorified in a perfect example of
Narcissism.
I s'pose an ominously-omni-everything god would be
entitled to be a bit narcissistic. (Not that God has any peers He needs
to show off for.) But what I see revealed in the Bible is a God who
humbles Himself in order to relate to His created beings. That is also a
grace shown to us.
The
vibes i am feeling here come from a self determined view of oneself
instead of an objective comparison to one who is truly good. Its funny
how ones doctrine determines how one brings the focus on his narcissist view of himself by that determination. I was listening to a counseling program the other day and they were explaining that the concept
in the word \"communication\" would not change the fundamental problems
in the relationship but rather and this in my own words what we need is
more than communication but we need a \"narcissistic control over the
other person\". Its funny how once we start down the road of philosophy
the temptation to change the circumstances always ends up with us as the
focus and us getting the glory time. Now that is narcissism!
| 7862
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Catholic Apologists
|
on: February 10, 2007, 09:13:08 PM
|
And
that's the rub. God decreed that David would have an affair with
Bathsheba and conspire to have her husband murdered. Sounds like it's
God's fault, so why did God have David punished? Remember the original
movie M*A*S*H? Frank tells Major Hot Lips that God brought them together
that night. She responds, "His will be done!", and they proceed into
the fires of passion. So with Paul's hypothetical questioner you must
ask, "Then why does He still complain? For who resists His will?" Paul's
answer of "Oh, just shut up!" doesn't cut it.
God
passively decreed that every thing that comes to pass. If God did not
decree the sin then He could not use the sin for His glory. Gods hands
would be tied. But the same passage you quoted from Paul in Rom. 9 also
says that God used Pharoahs life to bring about His glory. Why? because
God does what ever pleases Him, Who can resist His will? In Davids life
Gods discipline was an act of love otherwise David would not be His
child. God used the sin of adultery to bring about Davids growth and
also so David would be able to pin the greatest confession that ever was
recorded in history. Without davids sin we probably would not had Psalm
51. This psalm is almost like the water on the wicked witch to the
devil. This Psalm is absolutely the medicine for the worst of sinners,
with the most desperate circumstances, with the most dispicable
reputation. This Psalm of confession helps one to see that sin has been
dealt a final blow, and that the saint is completly accepted before the
throne of grace as a sinner. This Psalm is the Holy Spirits witnessing
tool, to convince a sinner that all of the promises are yea and amen. In
this Psalm we have the ultimate fellowship with the Father in
forgiveness, by the crys, the confession, the doctrine of sin, the
doctrine of the Holy Spirit, and the absolution to the bottom of ones
soul. It is a cleansing creed!
. . . . . .†††. .
."God passively decreed that [?] every thing that comes to pass."
Zounds! A quote straight from the book of II Jereboam 16:47! Arminius
strikes again! . . ."If God did not decree the sin then He could
not use the sin for His glory." Therefore, we safely conclude that God
created Man for sin for His glory? This must be a corollary to the
Westminster Shorter Catechism Q.#1. And we can also absolutely surmise
that this was integral with Man being created "very good." And that god
passively decreed that this "very good" Man was bound to sin so this god
you describe could be glorified in a perfect example of Narcissism.
Which in turn means, that since we were created in his image and
likeness, our purpose in life should be to become perfect Narcissists?
And this would most perfectly glorify him? And further, that this
perfect self-centeredness and selfishness (which is Original Sin) is not
BAAAD but "very good"? Works for me. . .Hereafter, when I confess
my sins, I shall make a genuine effort to remind this god of yours that I
am doing my utmost to glorify him. Bathsheba, here I come!! I presume
this is what Jesus meant when He said, "Therefore I tell you, her sins,
which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much." So there you have it.
Always was a little puzzled by the way He phrased this. . . ."Gods hands would be tied. " Always assumed that would take an infinite length of rope. Stupid me! .
.Returning now to the remarkable explication that God passively decreed
David's twin sins, it occurs to me that instead of Nathan saying, "Why
have you despised the word of the LORD to do what is evil in His sight?"
God should have had Nathan say, "What you have done is well-pleasing to
Me because it glorifies Me." You made it quite clear that "God does
what ever pleases Him. Who can resist His will?" No problemo! .
.Reformed Theology is like reading the Bible through the wrong end of a
pair of binoculars. Helps make Scriptures really transcendent. Love in Jesus. Just lovin' Jesus. Pompou Sass
I
take it that you think your confession is good enough to cover your
sins? And not to be a narcisist i would ask God to crush me so that i
will know how bad my sin is? Maybe your God is so small that He would
need to make you feel absolutely responsible for your sin by giving you
your just desert, Huh? If that will make you feel better than i then i
will go rite ahead and step out of the way. Gods not in the business of
destroying His own, no \"He does not treat us as our sins deserve.\" If
you want to call me a narcisist then go rite ahead. I do think well
enough of myself to know what God has covenanted in His word to do what
He says on my behalf and i do argue that He would do it because He holds
Himself to His promises. If you want to blame me for loving myself too
much then maybe you can explain to me how responsible you are with your
every sin. Evidently you must confess all your sins,every one of them,
rite down to the hidden ones?
David did not just confess the \"twin
sins\", and he was not cheifly sorry for the horizantal offense as much
as he was sorry for the vertical offense. And these\" twin sins\" in
davids mind pointed to a much greater offence, and that was the sin he
carried around from birth. But Gods unfailing love was far greater than
Davids sin, and so instead of experiencing the dread of guilt , he
cheifly experience the joy of grace. And if you want to call that
narcissist then go rite ahead. I call in grace.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
7863
|
Forums / Main Forum / Large Crowds Were Traveling With Jesus
|
on: February 10, 2007, 02:42:58 PM
|
I
do not think its us and God, if i am reading you rite. Some of our best
reminders that we belong to Him come from our most desperate losses in
this life. We are not destined to greatness in this world, we are
destined for another world. Greatness in this world is not always just. I
mean, look who was destined to be the king of isreal in Jesus Day. I
think it was Joseph. I would not call him great in this world. Yet he
was the husband of Mary , mother of Jesus. Greatness is becoming just
like Christ , and as the world defines greatness , becomes more and more
evil, then greatness becomes more defined downward.
I
think i need to go on here. Men are decieved at the point of pride. It
is the most deceptive agent that is floating around in the soul ready to
grow into a massive spiritual cancer. Pride blinds a man to his real
condition. Men are either flattered or they are full of false humility.
In fact men never really see themselves totally depraved. First because
that veiw would feel like being stabbed by a sword, and the Lord would
be imagined to be angry, and men would see the state of their
consciences with endless guilt.
Men really believe that their
activity in some kind of work is accomplished by their own strength.
They pride themselves in acheiving earthly rewards for their being able
to move up in to a position into society where they have other people
looking to them is some kind of dependent way. But men do not see the
cunning and crafty scemes they use to attain power. Men do not consider
how they actually climb the ladder of success. They naturally go at
getting to the top by destroying someone else. Because men spend their
days in flattery rather than in a real assesment of themselves in light
of Gods law.
The world is filled with men who eat other men like
they devour bread. Men are self dependent, they would not consider the
desperate situation of their own hearts before God. Men do not consider
themselves poor in spirit, not wanting to seek God, not wanting to call
out to God, instead they would much rather go at it through sceming and
destroying. This is the natural state of men. They are blind to how they
acheive power. It is they way of the world of all men. The world is a
world of men setting goals and acheiving them. The world is full of men
who fulfill their dreams, by the lust of their hearts.
Acheivement
in the world is a form of self deception. Being poor in this world and
needy is being dependent and vunerable. On this principle is how God
works. Gods ways are the opposite of the world system. The poor and the
needy are kind and gentle. They are caught up in the scemes of the
powerful in the world system. In Gods ways only those who are in this
dependent state are safe from harm. Because the poor and the needy are
vunerable they call on God nite and day. They make God their all in all,
God is their refuge from trouble, God is their deliverer, God is their
provider, God is their place of rest, They rest in God alone. God must
be and do all or He is not God .
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7865
|
Forums / Main Forum / Large Crowds Were Traveling With Jesus
|
on: February 10, 2007, 12:51:52 PM
|
ML - It
is only when we see this that we can understand that we are actually
forgiven and what Grace is. It’s no longer theology. We cant love God
properly. We cant believe in him properly or simply enough. It’s not
possible. We’re freakin idiots. It is BECAUSE of this that we need him
and HE CAME. We have screwed it up completely ever since and he still
stands there in the shadows of our failure and hatred to bring us home.
Profound and dead on.
Interesting
that so often it is in, as you described, the shadows of our failure
that we have our most profound experiences of God's grace.
As MBG
has shared so well, it is when lifes trials have buffeted us to the
point where it seems our faith will fail, that we cry out to Him. And we
find He is an ever present comfort in time of need.
This has
been an exhausing week. Everyone is gone to meetings except me so the
"professor" has been putting in long days actually doing the research.
That along with getting Mom settled from the hospital has been pretty
stressful.
But coming here each day has been like an oasis, being
able to share the things of Christ with a group of brothers and
sisters, who are so diverse in their backgrounds, and yet are one in
Christ.
Love you all and have a blessed day. Got to go to the
birthday for our "miracle" grandkids (Hanna Grace and Weston) born after
our daughter lost her first to SIDS.
God is Good, All the Time
Gods Grace and Mercy
Thanks
Bill, We are not robuts to secularism or to the domination of the
fittest by believing that the only activity is the self determined will
this creates this surivival of the fittest. But we actually believe that
all choices have a cause, and that God does actually work out His plan
in the choices of man. The principle of all of life is that we were the
dry bones pryor to being given new life and now we have the priniciple
of new spiritual life in us, so that our choice is ultimately caused by
something entirely foriegn to our nature. Thank God that this is a
supernatural paradigm because we know in this generation that the
skeloton of secularism bids us to trust in ourselves in the pull of
trying to make up for our sins by our self determination.
We
begin to loose control of our minds as we give ourselves over to this
circular paradigm. We begin to react just like a robut. We begin to
become mesmerized by the call of the world system with all of its
secularistic promises of human freedom. What we do not realize is that
we are being lulled into the arms of the wolves ready to devour us in
the sunset of our lives. The wolves of grief keep us from serving others
and they drive us to desperation , in which we try to rest in Christ
but we are given over from one sorrow to another.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
7866
|
Forums / Main Forum / Just Believe
|
on: February 10, 2007, 08:03:07 AM
|
But what does it mean to believe?
Not just necessarily with respect to faith, but what does it mean to believe?
I think I understand that belief and faith are not feelings, but what other evidence is there that we believe something?
The
thought patterns and "feelings" I have when I say "The sun will rise
tomorrow" having experienced it every day of my life and having complete
confidence that it will do so again are not the same thought patterns
and "feelings" I get when I say "I believe that Jesus Christ is God's
Son and that in believing that I will have eternal life."
That then begs the question, what does it mean to believe?
Is it perhaps a decision one takes, a set of facts one accepts, then patterns behaviour based on that decision?
Believing
a stated fact does not make one a christian. James says that the devils
believe and even tremble. The even tremble are a response to believing a
fact, so the it even gets to the their emotions.
If we confess
with our mouths Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts then we will be
saved. Believing in our hearts is a change that takes place in the
entire person. It is a change that takes place in our identity.
The
will is just one part of our person. There is the mind, desires,
understanding, emotions, and our physical make up. There must be a
fundemental change that takes place in all of our faculties of soul and
our bodies. Before choice there must be motive, which comes as a result
of the view of the mind about the object, so that we have an
understanding and a pleasure of what we are viewing. When we veiw an
object we either like it or we dislike it. That is we are not just
veiwing in a physical dimension but we are viewing in a spiritual
dimension. When we look at the choclate cake, we remember the pleasure
we got by our senses being involved and we understand that the cake is
good. In other words we believe that the cake is good by the pleasure we
get in our minds view of the cake.
If we just like the word
cake on a page and believed that the word cake was good. What kind of
faith is that? There is no apprehension of that object but just the
apprehension of the word on the page. No we must have a sense that the
cake is real by tasting, feeling and , smelling that cake. Our desire to
eat the cake then becomes greater than our desire to not eat the cake,
and so we reach out to get the peice of cake by choice. Our choice is
determined by our mind being pleased with the cake and our desire to
have the cake determines our choice.
It is the same with being
saved. When we are regenerated, we get a divine knowlege.Our minds
become pleased with Christ. He becomes our only hope in this life. We
see Christ with our spiritual eyes given to us at regeneration, and for
the first time He becomes more valuable than any other object that we
have sensed. We then know Him and we then desire Him and then we choose
to obey Him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
No comments:
Post a Comment