God
speaks through His word, and the communication is very detailed. He
explains to us the boundaries of His love for us just enough for us to
feel special other wise if there were no boundaries we would be totally
befuddled and overwhelmed, or we would go crazy in his revealing to us
who we really are. His voice is not so much to make a certian disicion
or to go a certian way, although some times He impresses on us in a
strong way to go in a certian direction yet He is really interested in
our being secure inspite of the circumstances around us. So his voice is
always drawing us in to a relationship with Him through his Son.
His
voice is beyond the human defintion of a voice. It is sometimes so
awesome that it is as if he were blowing new life into us. His voice is
so healing that we feel as if the supernatural physician and
psychiatrist given instant normality or a super abundance of strength.
He gives us insight into things that are happening around us from this
imbreathed strength so that we are sure that his hand is apoun us.
He
is so protecting of us that he brings circumstances that are diffucult
and we would not like to deal with so that we trust in him and we feel
as if going any other way is impossible unless he answers us from our
prayers. This is his holding us in his grip.
His voice is always
leading us on a path where we must exercise our faith, by trusting in
Him inspite of the circumstances and He communicates to us that we are
secure, and we have not struggled so much that we are going to die. With
these circumstances he draws out of us longings, and crys, and desires
for deliverence so that He will become such a mighty and strong deliver
that we will trust him even more and know him in a greater way and a
more profound way than any relationship we have on this earth. God
always sees and hears and speaks in a way that acts in behalf of the best for his children, and that includes the very atoms that we are made of.
His
voice is spoken into other peoples ears in behalf of us so that what
success we have in knowing that person is having Jesus as our friend
speaking in behalf of us to others in a supernatural way. In this we
know he is speaking to us because we look at what transpires around us
and we examine it and we are always seeing that there are precise things
that happen to us that are proofs that he is guiding and directing us
through each moment
Sometimes he speaks to us in such a way that
we are profoundly overcome. He opens up his power to us in a personal
way as if he were saying I am your salvation. We are so over come that
we are drawn out of our little world into an eternal experience of
worship, with such heavenly raptures that our eyes are opened up into
other world, and our ears are listening to the heavenly chior.This
communication is beyond any kind of communication we have on this earth.
He is so much bigger than mere words..
In
a sense God speaks everything into existence at the point it transpires
from an eternal perspective as if every thing has already happened
including the very function of hearing and perceiving that we experience
in the smallest particle of which we have not discovered. Gods
speaking,hearing,touching are precise in that what He wills comes to
pass so that we move and live and have our being in Him as Eric quoted.
| 9109
|
Forums / Main Forum / God's Voice
|
on: April 29, 2006, 04:57:26 AM
|
God
speaks through His word, and the communication is very detailed. He
explains to us the boundaries of His love for us just enough for us to
feel special other wise if there were no boundaries we would be totally
befuddled and overwhelmed, or we would go crazy in his revealing to us
who we really are. His voice is not so much to make a certian disicion
or to go a certian way, although some times He impresses on us in a
strong way to go in a certian direction yet He is really interested in
our being secure inspite of the circumstances around us. So his voice is
always drawing us in to a relationship with Him through his Son.
His
voice is beyond the human defintion of a voice. It is sometimes so
awesome that it is as if he were blowing new life into us. His voice is
so healing that we feel as if the supernatural physician and
psychiatrist given instant normality or a super abundance of strength.
He gives us insight into things that are happening around us from this
imbreathed strength so that we are sure that his hand is apoun us.
He
is so protecting of us that he brings circumstances that are diffucult
and we would not like to deal with so that we trust in him and we feel
as if going any other way is impossible unless he answers us from our
prayers. This is his holding us in his grip.
His voice is always
leading us on a path where we must exercise our faith, by trusting in
Him inspite of the circumstances and He communicates to us that we are
secure, and we have not struggled so much that we are going to die. With
these circumstances he draws out of us longings, and crys, and desires
for deliverence so that He will become such a mighty and strong deliver
that we will trust him even more and know him in a greater way and a
more profound way than any relationship we have on this earth. God
always sees and hears and speaks in a way that acts in behalf of the best for his children, and that includes the very atoms that we are made of.
His
voice is spoken into other peoples ears in behalf of us so that what
success we have in knowing that person is having Jesus as our friend
speaking in behalf of us to others in a supernatural way. In this we
know he is speaking to us because we look at what transpires around us
and we examine it and we are always seeing that there are precise things
that happen to us that are proofs that he is guiding and directing us
through each moment
Sometimes he speaks to us in such a way that
we are profoundly overcome. He opens up his power to us in a personal
way as if he were saying I am your salvation. We are so over come that
we are drawn out of our little world into an eternal experience of
worship, with such heavenly raptures that our eyes are opened up into
other world, and our ears are listening to the heavenly chior.This
communication is beyond any kind of communication we have on this earth.
He is so much bigger than mere words..
| 9114
|
Forums / Main Forum / Am I Wrong?
|
on: April 27, 2006, 04:01:34 PM
|
When
we learn to rest in Jesus Christ then and only then will we be in a
position in dependence on God for every thing. There are reasons we find
ourselves in these situations. Now some will tell you to pull up your
boot straps and get to it. Yet what ever God witholds from us is for our
benefit. He has the rite to make us starve to death. Yet He is more
interested in our resting in Christ, and so He will use whatever
circumstance to get us to be humble enough to recognize that He is all
we need in life and death.
Trials come so that we will depend on Him
more, by praying to Him, and resting in His love. He will bring us to a
point where we are totally reliant and there is no human mixture of an
out so that we will look up to Him and rest in Him. The worse that can
happen is we die and go to heaven. Yet He is gracious to us and provides
just enough to get us through this life. And any trial that comes to us
, and causes us great harm is for our good other wise we would presume
on His grace as if we had a rite to all the benefits we recieve and not
come to Him for every thing.
|
9119
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Is Theology Your God?
|
on: April 26, 2006, 05:27:16 AM
|
There
is a new theology, which is a modern day definition of the struggle
with physcosis. It really has narrowed man and driven man to such limits
in the ability to explore the metaphysical by putting boundries around
mans ability to reason from being alone in the universe of lonliness.
The new struggle is between connection which is the new righteous
standard and the sin of loneliness. Granted it is not good for man to be
alone, thus the helpmeet, yet in that biblical definition it is not all
inclusive in the physicological effects of loneliness as a physcosis,
other wise why would celebate for God.
Obviously if loneliness
was the great problem of mankind then what goes on inside of us would be
the sin, and what connection we have would be the relief we get from
that sin. Yet the reality is that no one else knows what goes on inside
of us other than ourselves and God. And yet the defining it as a
physcosis limits the ability to rationally experience the negative
effects of loneliness as it is related to sin and these realms of the
spiritual effects in that struggle.
The reality is that in
connection loneliness could be given more fuel because certian
metiphysical realities would not be experienced and thus that truth
would just add to our personal deception in a society of connection. All
reality starts in alonesss, we are always forced to aloneness, because
aloneness is the needle by which all experience is balanced on.
| 9136
|
Forums / Main Forum / Shacking-up And Joining The Church
|
on: April 19, 2006, 08:52:37 PM
|
No one here said that asking for forgiveness from other people is a
pregrequsite for entry into heaven. But scripture DOES tell us to ask
other people for forgiveness, for belivevers, primarily as part of our
charge to be unified. (Seems almost an alien concept here in this forum
doesn't it?)
I guess if every time we have a disagreement about
theology that we are in need of asking forgiveness then there would be
alot of asking forgiveness over the christian air waves wouldnt you
think? You are rite that we need to keep the communication going between
especially those in our church, mainly , i mean that is the context of
the lords prayer and the sermon on the mount. And then there are
samiratians in our lives in this area of forgiveness, yet that is not a
general principle in this area but it is a descressionary principle
since they stand in opposition to the kingdom of God. If you are trying
to get peace inside by doing this you will not succeed, peace comes
through understanding justification and the work Christ and is linked to
the bigness of God and His effects in us to forgive by that bigness.
| 9137
|
Forums / Main Forum / Shacking-up And Joining The Church
|
on: April 19, 2006, 08:16:34 PM
|
I am very sure Linda Marie is a believer. I disagree with lots of
things she says, her ideas, etc. You will never find a post by me saying
I think she isn't a believer. I don't casually go around branding folks
believers and unbelievers simply because we have some disagreements on
issues that are not foundational or directly related to salvation and
the nature of Christ etc. Linda Marie and I agree on virtually all the
big stuff I am sure.
As for Dilbert, he HAS written the things I said he has written.
I
guess if I have to I could take a long time and compile them. But he
has. I stand by what I wrote. If a fellow denies the deity of Christ,
the validity of scripture, the validity of the christian faith, and
other things he has written himself very clearly, he is either not a
believer, (its kind of obvious isn't it, if you don't believe you aren't
a believer?), or he is a believer who has fallen away. So I acknowledge
that yes indeed we may see old Dilbert in heaven, but as long as his
ideas and understanding is totally contrary to the truth, he shouldn't
be treated the same as a confessing believer.
In Dilbert's case its
not a matter of me "deeming him not worthy to be called a christian". He
does it all himself. I would be very wrong not to recognize what HE has
written himself about what he thinks.
I
kinda agree with Linda Marie about forgiveness. If asking forgiveness
is a prerequesite for being forgiven by God then then Christ work on the
cross was not finished. God himself does not forgive every one.
Rite
now i am going through a conflict between the reformed tradition and
dispensational bent in reformed circles. Now i know that we should love
the world, and yet we also need to have a holy hatred for the world.
Some times i think the dispensationalist create an impression that
unless we have a good relationship with the world as witnesses we are
not being obedient. My problem with this thinking is that it leans too
much on having those in the world as our judges of character. This ties
into the views of God and His soveignty , His declarations of men in
general and His emnity to them and our position in all of this as
believers. The proper view is that men are hostile to God, children of
the devil, and are active working to subvert the gospel and those who
represent the gospel. So there is this spiritual battle going on between
believers and unbelievers. These battles are very real. How can you
show unbelievers the love of God by presenting the gospel to them with a
warning that hell awaites them and knowing that this is love yet they
do not consider it love. So there is going to be this intense war going
on in them and it will spill over into the christian. There will be
accusations, true and untrue, but really offering free grace is not
trying to present ourselves as the true representitives of Christ as if
we were worthy. That is just another program of man, and mans
philosophy, a semi plagenistic spirit. What is the gospel is that
inspite of christians being sinners God grants us free grace so that no
one can boast including the unsaved. We are beggars too. The doctrine of
total depravity extends to us in our lives as believers as well. We are
in this delima between being witnesses as to how we live, yet being
tansparent in how we trust God to work inspite of our short comings, and
then creating an allusion that if the unbeliever just follows us, that
is we talk about how our disciples are more holy than any disciples any
where else because we stress holiness then that is just an allusion and
not Gods word. Our mission is lead others away from man centered gospel
and to Christ as the only remedy while men saved and unsaved are begging
for bread.
|
 Reply
 Quote
 Notify
|
|
9138
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Hell - What The Scripture Says.
|
on: April 19, 2006, 07:41:32 PM
|
Actually
there is no time where we in ourselves are not little god makers. Those
who are in bondage to sin are blind to being inslaved to a god of their
own making. They are foolish in their thinking and it comes directly
from a dead state spiritually in the soul. There is no part of mans
being that does not escape corruption. So in that state of corruption
man does not please God with his deeds, so that mans deeds are vile in
Gods site. This is the natural state of man, and that is there is no
good in man spiritually, so that man does nothing good spiritually.
Instead of man turning to God and bowing down to Him man runs from God.
Man does not understand that the only good that can be found in himself
and in the world is in God.
Then men band together to create an
allusion that goodness is in man and man can build his own system of
thinking in community. He has his leaders and they speak of unity and
understanding of all the people in that system, yet God says that it is
just a scemeing system that comes from a corrupted unity because the
problem is in the heart of man and that is his heart is corrupted. Man
in himself is unable to change this state.
An so that is the state of sin that man is born in both outwardly and inwardly.
| 9143
|
Forums / Main Forum / Truth
|
on: April 18, 2006, 06:49:51 PM
|
Gee no hope for this world sure got turned around to having no hope.
Not what I said. Not at all.
Even the Bible speaks of this heaven and earth passing away.
Maybe Jesus doesn\'t exclude, The Bible does say He said come to me all you who are tired......
It\'s people who exclude other people. Like they have been hired to keep out those who they distain.
Even the Bible says that on that day some will say Lord Lord but are in for a big surprise.
People call other peole a pig and a swine.
Feel the frustration they have.
The Good news has been taken and turned into BS. here and in a lot of places.
But
heck if people heckled, taunted, spit on and what ever Jesus who was
just trying to spread some good news then I guess it can happen to
anyone.
But fret not for you simply don\'t know what it is you do
but I think you\'ll find in the end what will be will be and what it
will be won\'t be because of what we did, did to other\'s, think, think
about God, notta, zip. I hope you\'ll come to grasp that and come down
to level ground and quit acting like whatever it is, I can\'t even
describe it.
We are all in this world together, but it sure is
tuff to try and get along. But why you want for this walled city and to
be so exclusive. Just who do you think you all are. Your no more
speacial then me or the next person. Do you have hearts.
But Jim R
for being a pastor you sure don\'t read very well. You really need to
go back and read my first post and then read yours. You must find
yourself having to dig out the hole you fill in when you don\'t pay
attention to what somebody says. I\'ll be glad to help you out with what
I said. Just ask.
dilbert-
it is the opposite of what you say. We are worth alot more than can be
fathomed because we are made in the image of the God of the bible. We
are not questioning your value as a human being, we are respectful of
every human being. In that sense we are all together on this earth. But
there is much more than this earth and our value, there is God and His
absolute soveriegnty over everything. But outside of Jesus Christ we are
just like brute beast. Those who are on a slippery slope into hell, who
are headed to ruin, cast down from any position they have of value on
earth into an eternity of terror into eternal destruction. They will be
like a dream, you know when you go to bed at night and then you wake up
in the morning and realize that you had a fantasy in your dream, well
that is the life of those who are outside of Christ that is their whole
life will be to them a fantasy of disney world once they are in eternity
suffering.
| 9146
|
Forums / Main Forum / Shacking-up And Joining The Church
|
on: April 18, 2006, 02:00:19 PM
|
Have you ever noticed that the sins that we deem to be "really bad" are those with which we don't have a major struggle?
I agree , and everything that comes into our lives including people in
our world are there for a reason. And the truth is the more free we are
by knowing ourselves the more we will be able to be successfull in our
marriages. It really is when problems arise in our marriage relationship
that shows just how secure we are in who we are that determines how
free we are as we pass through the diffuculties. Our ability to
understand ourselves is given as the word teaches us what we are. Then
in applying that word we gain confidence in our ministering to other
people our gifts and seeing those gifts at work. But these gifts are not
natural but supernatural. In ministering we are given insight into what
the Holy Spirit is doing through us and then we have confidence beyond
an accountability process. This is real freedom. People who
understand that freedom comes through using the spiritual gifts are more
relaxed, able to go through great trials, ready to forgive quicker, and
avoiding sin more because of that freedom they experience as the Holy
Spirit works through them. There are so many people who live
there lives by a strick standard of some teacher or program. They would
feel guilty for having a thought of their own or examing and disagreeing
even tho they are struggling with great sins. They think that just
because someone looks righteous and sound righteous that they must get
with the program. Freedom is knowing the scripture, and appling it to
the world views of different people in a doctrinal way and the more you
know of the doctrines the more you will be free because where the Spirit
is there is freedom. The more free you are the more your
thoughts will be from deep within you and the less you will be under the
domination of false shallow philosophies . The less wood hay and
stubble is in that communication the less there will be in forced
control.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
9147
|
Forums / Main Forum / Shacking-up And Joining The Church
|
on: April 17, 2006, 09:30:52 PM
|
Now i am not saying that it is good to shack
up. But i think we get really out of wack when we focus on one sin and
forget that we are required to see that maybe there are alot of sins in
us that are more problematic. This could be a self fulfilling prophecy
brought on by the physicological bent in todays world view. Maybe trying
to change the outside as a focus is the real problem here. First
you never hear of a follow up in all the relationships who are
supposeubly following the program. My question is even if the marriage
is a so called well adjusted marriage, what kind of doctrine do these
marriages live in, and what kind of worship do these individuals have?
That is the real question. THe other stuff can be confessed and over
come but really how are we going to pass on the doctrines of grace when
we have a generation focused on just the physicological rather than the
spiritual. That the real struggle with deep sin.
| 9154
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Examining Dispensationalism
|
on: April 16, 2006, 07:12:30 AM
|
Only one of these five major doctrines of dispensationalism (number 2
above) in any way agrees with historic Christian teachings. Even that
one would have to be explained, since historic Christians teach that,
after the Rapture, Christians are to be taken to heaven permanently,
whereas dispensationalists say it is only temporary at that time.
Dispensationalists go on to teach that, after seven years, the church
will be returned to earth, where it will take part in an earthly
millennium. During the millennium, according to dispensationalists, the
church will have a position inferior to that of Israel. They teach that,
after the millennium, the church will be returned to heaven the second
time, there to spend eternity while Israel remains forever on the earth.
None of this, of course, is in agreement with historic Christian
beliefs. And, whereas the dispensationalists include only the Gentile
Christians in the Rapture, historic Christians would include all
believers from every age and nationality.
The Brethren divided
into two distinct groups after Darby came into their midst. These groups
came to be known as \"exclusive assemblies\" and \"open assemblies.\"
Darby was the originator of the exclusive assemblies. In 1845 he
returned to Plymouth from an extended stay in Switzerland. He and a Mr.
Newton, who had been the pastor at Plymouth during Darby's long absence,
had doctrinal differences. This resulted in a war-in both verbal and
pamphlet forms. Newton's strong following in that particular church
prevailed, and Darby \"quit the assembly\" with fifty or sixty members.
This, according to Veitch, was the beginning of \"exclusivism.\" Neatby
said, concerning Darby's visit to Plymouth: \"From the moment he decided
to come, Brethrenism was doomed.\"
|
9164
|
Forums / Main Forum / Shacking-up And Joining The Church
|
on: April 15, 2006, 09:53:35 AM
|
Jen,
I
never talk about this, especially to a stranger (forgive the word) but I
feel compelled to share even deeper...I too am divorced and the guilt I
buried myself in became a greater burden then the divorce itself. I was
the one who left and what made it even worse was that I had already
given my life to Christ.
My ex and I belonged to a wonderful
church and had a wonderful church family. We lived the" perfect little
Christian life", involved in more ministries than we could count and
even hosted bible study every week at our house.
The hardest
thing for me to deal with after I left was how I had failed God, my ex
and my church family, so miserably. I felt that I could never call
myself a Christian again and the guilt ate me alive. I felt that
"Divorce" was the worst sin I could ever committ and I began to question
whether or not I could even consider myself a Christian.
As the
years went on, God spoke to me through sermons and scripture and I can
remember one day in a quiet time how I opened right up to Psalm 51: Have
mercy on me O God, according to your great compassion blot out my
transgressions. Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my
sin..........
I got on my knees begging for forgiveness. After I
composed myself I turned the page to a devotion titled "Losing the Way"
and praise God because He is so faithful....He spoke to me!
These are just a few quotes from the devotion:
"We
develop unrealistic expectations of the Christian life and of ourselves
and then when our wings get broken, we think failure ends our
usefulness"
"It helps to remember that even the great ones of the
faith failed, yet God continued to use them, often in a deeper way
after their fall"
"It if those who have plumbed the depths of failure to whom God invariably gives the call to shepherd others"
"Too
many sincere Christians berate themselves unmercifully and keep asking
God for forgiveness. Each of us should memorize, hang on the mirror,
and make forever our own the ringing truth: Romans 8:1 "THere is now no
condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"
"Not only does He not condemn us; He even brings blessings from the ashes of our failures". How incredible is that!
I hope this helps you as it did me. This came from the Women's Devotional Bible NIV...the pink one!
It's so good to share with you. I wish I could give you a hug!
Love,
Amanda
Thanks Amanda, Too, what happens is we take the anger and hatred that
is justified and we turn it on ourselves. There is a process where we go
to God and express that anger and turn it over to Him. We can probe
deep into these areas of sensitiveness in what effected us and deal in
the scripture especially in the Psalms and get that effect of that bad
experience out and God will work renewal in us. The word and the Spirit
search our hearts as we pray and that is an experience that is a
supernatural healing.
| 9167
|
Forums / Main Forum / Welcome To Struggleville?
|
on: April 14, 2006, 04:35:34 PM
|
As a long-time lurker of this place and an old guy who has listened to
Steve for a lot of years, I decided to join up and start my first post
as a question. I'm not looking for hard and fast answers, just hoping
for some thoughtful discussion.
Here we go: Why does it seem that
so many folks posting here are struggling just to get through the day? I
know what the Bible says about not being surprised...and for a little
while...etc.
But I joined up because after many years as a
Christian I seem to be hitting that same wall. I have a good family,
decent job, excersize and am in good health, good church, friends. I
pray and seek God daily. I've spent a lot of years studying the Bible.
I've experienced his joy. I serve others. But it still seems like
something is missing. Before I get clobbered, I am definitely saved. The
holy spirit has been inside of me a long time and there is no doubt.
I'm
not looking for reward, or maybe I am. All I know is I'm passing 50 and
would prefer sleep to almost any thing on earth. Not that I ever get
more than 5 or 6 hours a day, but I must have missed the lessons on how
to be content whatever my circumstances.
I find strange and disturbing comfort in the fact that some of the rest of you seem to be struggling too. I guess that's sick.
Without
offending eveybody, is it ok to ask for particular members whose posts I
identify with to respond? I'll hold off on giving names until I see who
comments on this stuff.
Maybe I am just nuts or a malcontent or
something like that. Maybe this is just the road God has laid out. I
like the quote Steve reads from Theresa of Avila where she tells God he
would have more friends if he treated the ones he had better.
Ok,
that's my first entry. Blast me, curse me (I find the cursing and near
cursing here funny even though it is not my thing), laugh at me, or even
encourage me if you can figure out how.
how do you end these entries? how about THE END
Maybe you are dividing your life up into catagories and thinking that
you are ok if all of these obligations are being met. I dont look at my
life that way. There is a temptation in mid life to desensatize yourself
by looking back over the 50 yrs and wondering why it went so fast.
Thinking that it was all so insignificant because you are just going
through the motions in the present and you had no thought when you were
younger of being in this time frame in your life. In a way it sorta
sneeks up on you like a bad dream when one day it dawns on you that it
just flew by. And then you look into the future and see decline,
which makes you feel more insignificant. So there is this underling
hardness that has developed that brings about the grief of life. This
grief is what is common in our society. Sorta like pining away in
insignificance. Yet these are the years where we are to begin to impact
others in our world for Christ. These are the years where we should just
begin understanding the deep longings of the new birth. These are the
years were we are to step up and show the fruit of experiencing Gods
love to the young. Adults who see that responsiblity are grown up
and mature. Really its sad to see the immaturity of a life lived for
self. Its sad in me because there are times when i want to sit on the
side lines and its hard to till up the fallow ground at this age and get
excited over these truths like i should. But in some way meditation has
helped till up that hard heart. These are the years where we feel God.
We should have a faith that is mature and alive. Its never to late to
begin to go to the word and till up the heart.
| 9173
|
Forums / Main Forum / Grace And Confusion
|
on: April 14, 2006, 05:47:23 AM
|
Rucan,
Paul does not say we are free from the Law...ie we can steal, rape , pillage etc.
After reading Galations a little closer:
We are free from relying on the Law for salvation. Gal 5:4
Paul never says anywere we can ignore God's commandments.
He is telling the Galatians that faith in Jesus alone justifies us before God.
The
Galations were relying on their works to justify themselves before
God...forgetting about Jesus' death on the cross! Gal 3:1
Paul
is not saying we don't have to follow the Law (teaching of God)...just
don't substitute obedience to the Law for faith in Jesus' death and
ressurection in your quest for forgiveness and justification.
We
are saved by faith in Christ, then live our Christian life according to
His Word...examples: Peter, Paul, the Apostles, the early Church
fathers and everyone else who lived Godly lives after them up until
today! ...Which by the way is the 2nd day of passover.
Faith is the way to be justified to God ...after which....
The Law is then the way to live for God
no conflict!
Clear as mud? or ok?
Thor
Yes i agree and justification is an on going process as well as an
initial act of God at salvation. Paul says that we are justified apart
from the works of the law. In sanctification we mortify the deeds of the
flesh by the Spirit. The process is that the Spirit uses the law to
convict us and then we confess our sins. In this sense the law is good.
Yet the law cannot save. The Galatians were going back to circumscion as
a means to be justified before God. They were depending on themselves
to get salvation and to keep salvation.
In justification we rest in Christ work. In justification we are only
righteous because of His perfect righteousness. We do not depend apoun
our works to keep us in Him. We rest from our works. We are
regenerated at salvation. We are given new desires to obey. All our acts
of obedience are pre -graced so that all of our obedience is because of
Gods grace. We in ourselves fail miserable to keep the law. We cannot
keep the law in ourselves. What i want to do i do not do and what i do
not want to do this i do. Because we have new desires we have a taste of
the spiritual things in Christ. Christ becomes the object by us
apprehending Him through spiritual senses. It is no longer the letter
that we grow in, but it is the Spirit and the power of the Spirit that
we depend apoun to grow.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
9174
|
Forums / Main Forum / Grace And Confusion
|
on: April 13, 2006, 05:41:25 PM
|
|
Now i am worked up, and you semi plagenist
think that it is just a spurt for me but this is a burning fire. You all
think that there is something more to be done that has already been
done. You think that all the plans you have are good and you are making
progress in the christian world. You think that all the steps of
holiness are postive the closest thing to heaven. Yet where is the
power? Where is the heavenly revivals? Where is God? Why has sin
continued and the downslide of the christian marriage continued.
Well
because man is too powerful, man thinks that he is able. Man thinks
that its his abilities to understand that create the change. Man thinks
that he is the leader and all of the rest of the people are the
followers. Man is proud of his riches, his fame, his lack of troubles.
There is only one remedy to all of this, and i say this in the face of
extreme diffuculties in my own life, that is Jesus as the begining and
the end of all of lifes trials. When the Spirit comes in power then
there is real change. When we look to God for every thing, praising Him
for all we have, only looking to Him to provide, only seeing Him in
absolute control of every thing in our existence, then an only then we
we truely praise the Living God. Then an only then will we see God and
desire for His name to alone be exalted, then and only then will we want
to glorify God alone.
Then we will spend our time thinking about
the ominscience , omnipresence of God. Then we will be so over come
with His glory that we will fall down and worship Him, desiring to be
where He is, longing for mor of Him.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
9175
|
Forums / Main Forum / Grace And Confusion
|
on: April 13, 2006, 05:11:06 PM
|
You are confusing the relationship a believer has to the law and the
power that the law has in relation to the believers life. You are using a
word bound that is not in a believers vocabulary. The law is no long a
school master to us. We are not bound to the law. The law works death.
The law works with our conscience to condemn us. We have different
workings in us that affect the way we experience life. The law shows us
our sin. Conscience tells us that we are guilty. The law and the
conscience work conviction yet the conviction is a work of the Holy
Spirit and is a graceious action of forgiveness.
The law and
conscience work to create death in us. You can have a clean conscience
but you cannot have a blameless conscience. If we say that we have no
sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us. There is no time
where we are free from sin. The moment we say that we are clear from sin
is when we sin. We decieve ourselves by making a law that we can feel
comfortable with. This is just an emotional person trying to get a peace
that is geared toward self fulfillment. That kind of peace is not what
the scripture offers, the peace of God is between people not free from
sin peace.
The problem with us is how we view ourselves when the
law speaks to us. How the voice of conscience and its initial action on
us affects how we see ourselves in light of grace. It is what a
christian must come to grips with in this process of the working of the
conscience and the law in us that we must understand or we will always
misapply the forgiveness of Christ and we will be guilty of a greater
sin and that is unbelief in that forgiveness. If we have a
struggle with the condemning action of the law and conscience and we
decide that it is better to make up for the wrong by doing something to
counter balance the sin and the condeming voice of conscience then we
will be working more sin in our lives because the conscience and the law
are not methodic way to become righteous. There is only one remedy
toward positive forgiveness and righteousness. Turning to Christ for
forgiveness and the power to change.
This is the freedom we are
talking about. It is called free grace. It is really free, really free,
really free. There is no limit on the amount of forgiveness, there is no
sin great enough to over power this grace, there is no continuence of
sin that can nulify this grace. The grace is a persevering grace. Once a
person believes in Christ that life in Christ is dependent on the
Trinitarian work to keep us in that right life. There is no way that God
will not work in us to will and to do until the end. We are not looking
toward preseveration of the saints as a remedy of a trouble conscience.
Rather the preseveration of the saints is the fuel toward turning to
Christ, that is it is the beginging of the answer to the law and
conscience and the end of the voice of law and conscience. The name of
Christ is a strong tower, it is the name of Christ that we represent. It
is because His name is so great that it is because of His name that He
works in us. It is because of His name that no sin will work for our
destruction. No sin can keep us from hiding behind guilt and telling
people we are not christians. He will avenge all those who accuse us of
sin no matter how much sin we are struggling with. That is the doctrine
of preseveration! There is not a time where God is not ready to forgive
us, not ready to recieve us. We only need to be contrite and express a
dependence on Him. There is nothing else in us that He needs to
vindicate His name.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
9176
|
Forums / Main Forum / Grace And Confusion
|
on: April 13, 2006, 04:59:53 PM
|
You are confusing the relationship a believer has to the law and the
power that the law has in relation to the believers life. You are using a
word bound that is not in a believers vocabulary. The law is no long a
school master to us. We are not bound to the law. The law works death.
The law works with our conscience to condemn us. We have different
workings in us that affect the way we experience life. The law shows us
our sin. Conscience tells us that we are guilty. The law and the
conscience work conviction yet the conviction is a work of the Holy
Spirit and is a graceious action of forgiveness.
The law and
conscience work to create death in us. You can have a clean conscience
but you cannot have a blameless conscience. If we say that we have no
sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us. There is no time
where we are free from sin. The moment we say that we are clear from sin
is when we sin. We decieve ourselves by making a law that we can feel
comfortable with. This is just an emotional person trying to get a peace
that is geared toward self fulfillment. That kind of peace is not what
the scripture offers, the peace of God is between people not free from
sin peace.
The problem with us is how we view ourselves when the
law speaks to us. How the voice of conscience and its initial action on
us affects how we see ourselves in light of grace. It is what a
christian must come to grips with in this process of the working of the
conscience and the law in us that we must understand or we will always
misapply the forgiveness of Christ and we will be guilty of a greater
sin and that is unbelief in that forgiveness. If we have a
struggle with the condemning action of the law and conscience and we
decide that it is better to make up for the wrong by doing something to
counter balance the sin and the condeming voice of conscience then we
will be working more sin in our lives because the conscience and the law
are not methodic way to become righteous. There is only one remedy
toward positive forgiveness and righteousness. Turning to Christ for
forgiveness and the power to change.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
9178
|
Forums / Main Forum / Grace And Confusion
|
on: April 13, 2006, 09:53:30 AM
|
Rucan,
We
are also free from the law, in that through the Spirit we are able to
live on a higher plane than striving to keep the law in our own
strength. The scripture says that riighteousness is produced in us by
the Spirit of God. We are also free from condemnation (Romans 8:1, John
3:18).
Got to get ready for work. Have a great day everyone.
Gods Grace and Mercy
This
is exactly my point which is confusing. You say we are free from the
law but I and mbg have listed out of the bible laws we are not free from
but that we must keep. So what are we free from? Some laws but not others? and if so which laws? dietary laws? ceremonial laws? but not the other laws??
There are two aspects of relationship to the law. Pryor to regeneration
we have a legal relationship to the law. After salvation we are free
from the law, because we serve Christ. The law is not the object but
Christ becomes our object. In legal obedience there is a condmning
relationship to the law. We hear the law and it condemns us so then we
have guilt and we try in our strength to keep it. The more we try the
more we fail. The more we fail the more it has a power over us and the
more laws we want to disobey. The law is a schoolmaster in this sense. When
we get regenerated by the Holy Spirit we are given new life. Now we
have the Holy Spirit, with the Spirit comes Christ and with Christ comes
the Father so that we are temples of God , that is God lives in us. Now
the Spirit uses the word to convict us, this is no longer legal
conviction, this conviction is gracious, and works to change us but the
power of the word and the Spirit. In this conviction we here the word
and then we go to Christ and confess our sins and our inability to keep
the law entirely. We morn over our sin and so we are in a struggle
between morning over sin and joy in the Holy Ghost, always falling short
, yet righteous in Chist, anxious , yet at peace in Christ, fearful,
yet have faith because of Christ etc. So we can never keep the law , we
can never obey perfectly each law because the part of the work that is
corrupted is from us. So we can only be righteous because of Christ
active and passive righteousness. That becomes our righteousness. Now we
are looked on as perfect law keepers. Now we are perfect because it was
finished at the cross.Now there is no condemnation!
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
9179
|
Forums / Main Forum / Grace And Confusion
|
on: April 13, 2006, 04:35:11 AM
|
|
James 2
3.
and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine
clothes, and say, \"You sit here in a good place,\" and you say to the
poor man, \"You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,\"
13. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment
1 Peter 5
3. nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.
Hebrews 13
17.
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your
souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and
not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
9180
|
Forums / Main Forum / Grace And Confusion
|
on: April 13, 2006, 04:18:19 AM
|
|
Here is a list of more sins.
Eph 4:31. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
Colossians 3
8. But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
11
Cor 12:20. For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to
be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that
perhaps there will be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, dis
Jms 3:14. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth.
16. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.
disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances;
1
Tim.6:3. If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree
with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine
conforming to godliness,
14. that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15.
which He will bring about at the proper time--He who is the blessed
and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
11 Tim
2:19. Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this
seal, \"The Lord knows those who are His,\" and, \"Everyone who names
the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.\"
22. Now flee
from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace,
with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
James 5
4.
Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has
been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who
did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
An exortation
Jude 1:17. But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
21. keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
25.
to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory,
majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever.
Amen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
No comments:
Post a Comment