Tuesday, November 10, 2015

6311  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: GRACE OR grace on: May 30, 2008, 09:21:33 AM
If we are receiving grace, then we are receiving things whether spiritual or physical that are undeserved. The normal means by which God provides all of these things is through the avenue of grace. Grace is poured out on us as the waves are coming in over the shallow waters. We are not able to meet Gods requirements for righteousness at any moment in this world on our own. So in order for us to stand in His presence as acceptable, He has an overflowing of grace that is always being made available to us. We do not deserve to live in the state we live in without His grace. And if we are not thinking that God is this way in our need to exist, then we have made a god of our own goodness. We are now making something that is natural to us. So that we are in need of His grace in order to repent of thinking this way. We naturally are not as available to meet His grace as He is kind to us in giving us that grace. We are always straying and He is always gracious. Its more than just sins that we commit. So that our conscious existence is by His grace. Every breath is expending grace.

 Thats why the humble are believing rite about His grace. Because all of our protection is from Him. If we were not as low as the beggar, then we would be guilty of thinking better of ourselves than we ought. But since we depend upon God for our very existence, then we praise and worship Him as He is exalted in our low position. We are as vulnerable to the pride of men as we are trusting in His protection. Since we are the most harmless being upheld by His protection, then we are always in need of His assistance. And our thinking of ourselves as able is our problem of being in a position of pride. We are all totally corrupted, and in need of His kindness. So that we will give Him all of the praise, and trust in Him for all of the protection, not trusting in our own horses, but trusting in His eternal love. We are as humble as we are in need of all of His assurances by prayer. If we thought that we would be able to keep ourselves in His love, then we would not have the true view of God as the Most High. If we thought that there was something that we could do in order to keep Him being gracious to us, then we would not need to ask. And not asking is not believing. So that our humbleness is expressed in our attitude in prayer.
6313  Forums / Main Forum / Re: R.c. Sproul on: May 29, 2008, 08:28:15 AM
Yes Heartuggs, Ofcourse perfection is not attainable,  but it's when Christians become willing to settle for so much less than what God offered, enabled, and indeed intended for them.....that they often continue waiting for God's Grace to "externally" make some "miraculous difference",  When it's already been done!!....and He's just waiting patiently...on us....to show some initiative and enthusiasm about sanctification and "not" sinning.... rather than take the 3 free ones this time.   Does not Sanctification involve our newly restored "nature" to will and to work for His good pleasure?  Now that we've been declared "righteous" in Christ, why such the glib view toward wanting to avoid sin??  Why such an objection toward trying?  Are we afraid of failure?? Of course we will fail!!...that's when He picks us up and says my grace has "already sufficed" for you , but please do keep your pursuit of Holiness (ie Christ often follows his graceful pardon's with Go and sin no more) and so we try....and there's that grace every time!! 

Pardon me if I sound too highly idealistic and far over zealous,   but I'm really not trying to create something beyond a basic pursuit of pleasing God....I'm no where near it or anything, but I do long for it and any growth credit goes to Christ who enables.....just not used to seeing so many who pray for things God has already provided for us....I think God must be just as bored (or even grieved) with the flippant way some of these Christians still cash in on "free sin",  when that misses the contrast of our calling to be salt and light....in a Post Modern sub Christian Culture.  Perhaps it's just me though.  I am open to watering something down to see this differently, but when I try.....I can't quite seem to cash in....I mean....what the heck is wrong with me people??? :  )) ok,  a little tongue and cheek touche perhaps.

Are you a 4 pointer? Our do you believe that the work on the cross was sufficient for all but efficient for only a few? -a weak view .

Heres the historical view in the doctrines of grace. We are not able to do enough good to merit salvation or keep salvation. Because we are corrupted in every part. On our best days we are not able to please God in ourselves. Our problems are much bigger than we think, and our pride always steps forward through its attraction to the law. This is a self assessment problem that never goes away. The conflict is not how much we can obtain in this world as in success in order to our having a better self image by our identity with Christ. But it is that we are always straying by thinking that we have worked enough to gain merit in keeping our salvation. We have a tremendous problem with always straying so that He makes us find in Him our only hope.

 We would never do enough in thinking that we were saved by grace and then were responsible to persevere in a confidence that comes from a personal stake in our sanctification. The moment we begin to sin is the moment that we think that we are able to obtain any good on our own. The call is from the inside. It comes from a new set of desires. The focus is not from the outside to the inside. I do not agree with those who reverse this definition of perseverance. It really is not two equal lines. The reason is that His promises are always kept, but the commands to us are never acceptable without His work as already accomplished on our behalf. So that the grace is believing in His righteousness in a conscious dependence. Now we no longer look at obedience as just an outward exercise, but obedience is an inward life.

 Our desires are the grace for change. Our wills are protected by His withholding grace against sinning and given power by His enabling grace so that we are determined by His work already accomplished. The obedience from the heart is desiring what He desires by thinking thoughts after Him. By desiring what He desires, we are becoming what He wants us to be in the unseen world of the obedience on the inside. The change comes from His desires that are longed for by us.

 Sir imnsho i believe that you are encouraging others to be fruit inspectors. But at the same time you are telling them that it is by grace. The evil in this two line is that people give themselves room to fail but the sanctification process is never self condemnation first and then humble serving , but rather sanctification is for everyone else and the two line philosophy is the pharisee.
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6314  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: May 29, 2008, 07:27:06 AM
Jesus came as close as He could to sin without becoming a sinner in order to identify with us so that He in His humanity could fully pay the price for sin. So now we are identified with Him instead of being in a relationship of intervention of Him. He did not intervene but He became. And we can become just like Him through the process of looking at Him in His word and identifying with Him by His Spirit. We are now free over sin because of our new identity.

 Now we can identify with one another by becoming all things to all men. We can dare to transcend intervention. We can become like a little child in order to speak Jesus. We can decide to become isolated in order to identify with Him. We can have the ministry of those spiritual gifts through speaking the inerrant word to one another in order to encourage one another. All of the realistic ideas are painted with His artistic stroke. He makes men super naturalist.
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6315  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Systematic Theology Volume 1 - by Charles Hodge on: May 28, 2008, 05:33:12 PM
Truth is also circumspect.  Facts taken in the context of the other facts will make a healthy mind. The logical deduction of theology is a single thread woven in all of the doctrines that points to God glorifying Himself in bringing about that healthy and holistic world view. So that when a man accepts Calvinism then He cannot become a mystic, or a philosopher. He will have a healthy understanding of who God is.
6316  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: May 26, 2008, 05:17:10 PM
I had a friend just call me up this morning; he is back in "same-old-place-again-not-understanding-how-he-got-there." You see, he is a recovering addict just like me, only lately, he has not been in recovery if you get my meaning. We talked for a good long time; he is at wit's end because he knows all about "what to do" and what he should do, and yet that knowledge, in and of itself, does not seem to avail itself from keeping him out of "the pit" so to speak.

I shared a good many things with him about the dangers of isolation and how disconnecting ourselves from "the body" - whether we're talking about the "church" or the 12-step rooms or simply other people - gives the enemy oppurtunity to come in and cast shadows of doubt and gloom in our minds (words to that effect) in order to launch an onslaught of temptation against us that will successfully take us out.

The upshot of all of this is that he pretty much knows all of this and has been hearing it for years. But (just like me), internalizing this knowledge is another matter. I then shared with him the Paul's passage from Roman's 7 about how Paul himself knew to do the good but found himself doing the evil anyway. To my complete non-suprise, he was not familiar with this passage in the New Testament. (Or perhaps he'd heard it once, long ago, and had forgotten about it). We went on to discuss about how head-knowledge, in-and-of-itself, is not enough to save us; we need some kind of catalyst if you will, to make the head knowledge into heart knowledge.

This was a lesson that was by no means wasted on me; I live in my head a lot! (and sometimes that is a dangerous neighborhood for me to go up into alone!). The way I abstract real things is incredible; Christ's love for example; I would rather talk about it or read about rather than experience it! Part of the reason is, I am not sure I know how to do that! I am always trying to get the "tab A into slot B" formula right and then I can experience God's blessings in abundance!

I am convinced that the reason we go astray as Christians (and yes, my friend is a Christian as well) is that we do not know how to receive! We are always trying to get our little spiritual and theological ducks in a row before we think that God can (or will) do something for us. We may even "know" that we cannot perform our way into God's blessings or approval and yet find ourselves trying to perform anyway because what we "know" has not been internalized; i.e. we still think there is something we have "to do" and if we don't do it, then we can expect nothing from God.

I wonder, what will it take for me, my friend (and the rest of us) to finally and successfully internalize the word "Tetelestai!" ("It is Finished!)? What more do we have to go through before we come to the "heart knowledge" that what needed to be done has already been done? How many times will I (and the rest of us) have to go on bumping our heads up against that same wall of the law before we come to the conclusion that only that pronouncement cried-out from the cross is going to send that wall crashing down and bring us liberty?

What indeed? Why is it that we simply refuse to allow ourselves to be loved into wellness? into being the thing that Christ intended for us to be? They have a saying to newcomer's in the "rooms" that goes: "Your best thinking got you here." Meaning, of course, that all of your best machinations did not do anything but finally get you to a point of utter defeat and despair. Is this what finally has to happen before Christ can do anything with us? I am tired; I don't want to do it anymore. I think I will opt for just being loved instead.

 I go to the Psalms for a reflection of the state of my soul and a retuning of my emotional instability. There is a place of rest in the shadow of His wings. But the place is defined and not just a place of prayer. It is a place where the Holy Spirit speaks in such a way by the state of our need to have the pain of our carnal disposition replaced by a deep sense of His sufficiency and assurance. We are all very misunderstood to ourselves by the communication of our anxious core so that we dwell in the disposition of a misguided thought life. Its what comes from the inside out, and what we think about by that introverted deli ma. Our lack of the spiritual understanding is evidenced by our lack of spiritual power to dwell in a heavenly frame of mind by our different communications out of our frustration.

 We have the call to dwell in His power, that is to have a sense of it by an understanding of having experienced it by His communication to us from His word. We communicate to Him as if we had a friend who would listen to us and respond with encouragement. The same goes with our need to have our core hope in Him. We have a way to communicate to Him that deli ma of feeling like there is no hope and with our being framed in the Psalms to call on Him to be our hope, we not only have His assurance to us, but we have it framed in such a way that we are releasing our lack of hope in the psalm, and we are receiving by the cries a hope that is supernatural. It is the same with fear. We have a way to release that fear by His designing His word in such a way that we know we are releasing it in the cries to Him through the language of the Spirit and we are receiving His assurance by that Psalm. With each soul deli ma He has given us a Psalm to reflect the inordinate affection, and having done our singing in such a way that we have gained a spiritual understanding of His driving that assurance deeper and deeper in our inner man.

There are all kinds of different Psalms for healing each part of that anxious core. We just need to find the one at a particular time that has the medicine at the end of the needle to penetrate the anxiousness and drive a promise into that lack of understanding so that we know that we have been with the great Physician in Him giving us a peace that we did not know existed far greater than our horizontal relationships. There is a spiritual communication that is like an alert mechanism that is communicated in such a way that it is beyond our understanding to our natural thinking. But we will know that it has done its work by a particular wisdom to us in a trial or by a peace that we cannot muster up. We may not be aware of this but it is promised to us in James. Most of the time we are very dull and dumb.

 It has been my experience that there are meditations of different psalms that are having a different effect on my disposition by that illumination of these different sort of funny bones in my core. At different time the searching of the Psalms is finding the rite medication to hit that spot. And then the Spirit will take it and fill me up with peace and joy by that Psalm. What ever hurt we take in will come to our  attention by that particular Psalm, and the Spirit will release it. That is what it means to have Him as our refuge. It is being love first, always.

 And some time i know i am called away to mourning. It is not a sense of hopelessness but it is a serious minded disposition that danger is near and there are workings that are not in my control that need to happen. So that in the mourning paradigm there is also a communication of His faithfulness to be a buttress in our waiting on Him. There is a meekness to be learned by all of us, but it is not out of the force of our will, but rather the quiet strength is our getting strength from Him in our mourning. It is a very deep communication.

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