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The church must be doing the basics, which is devotion first , that is in devotion it is more than just a head knowlege but there is a conviction that is spaun on by a desire that is implanted by the Holy Spirit in regeneration. What happens is that we do not devote ourselves to the basics, Scripture,fellowship, breaking of bread and prayer, and then meeting needs as they come up.
There are doctrinal reasons that cause these devoted things to take a place amoung the congregation that puts these things on the back shelf. One is a devotion to a system of philosophy. People love to have practical systemamatic explainations for relationships. They make these rules equal with the scripture and that kills the devotion to the scriptures. Devotion to scripture is inflamed by the Holy Spirit as the scripture is ingested into the heart and then after awhile grace becomes bigger than life because the Spirit makes the desires grow. In devotion there is a supernatural unity that developes which comes from a single mindedness to the scripture. The Spirit and the scripture work to change a persons heart for better fellowship and a deeper holiness. The behaviour change comes as a result of an inflamed heart spurred on by grace as the scripture and the Spirit inflame the heart. So any thing that is introduced as relationally equivelant to the scritpural motif kills the unity of the church by creating phariseeism.

Another thing that kills devotion is quenching the Spirit. The church is not necessarily and institution that offers teaching, but it is an organism where gifted people are educated by the Spirit to use their gifts in the service of one another. Quenching the Spirit is placing service as the central goal, and ignoring the organism motif. The Holy Spirit regenerates each person of whom He adds to the church for a specific purpose. The Holy Spirit works in each individual heart to bring about the unity that was originally purposed for that individual in regeneration. The Holy SPirit lust for control, by cause us to praise God the Father, to come into the throne room of prayer and to go directly to the Father both individually and cooporately so that praying without ceasing is keeping us holy so that we do not quench the Spirit. The Holy Spirit causes a believer to long for the word of God, desire the working of the Spirit in a revived state, causes a person to devote himself to spiritual things, and illuminates a person to apply these truths as He works in the unity of the fellowship so that a person can discern those spiritual forces and pray accordingly. The Holy Spirit does this by filling the heart with praise, longings for God, desiring His will above any other will, focusing on Christ work and being filled with that knowlege of Christ. When people are revived in the Holy Spirit there is a supernatural ability to have a unity of doctrine and agreement on who God is and just what kind of God they are worshipping. The filling of the Spirit is absolutely essential to have a unified church and a healthy church.

What we do is we react to the carasmatic movement and we quench the Spirit. Our struggle in the church is not mainly member relations but it is a struggle of spiritual forces in the heavenlys. Unless these Satanic induced attacks are brought under control there will never be a unity that mirrors a revived state or a Christo centric focus in that revived desire. The difference in a charasmatic Holy Spirit focus and a true focus on the working of the Spirit is a doctrinal focus rather than a relational or worship style. All spiritual battles are fought and won when sin is dethroned and salvation and deliverance occur. All spiritual battles are brought on through the mind first, by deception, and then they get into the emotional wellbeing of the church. First in arminism mans experience becomes the focus in a Holy SPirit filling and so there is just complete confusion in the mental aspect of the unity of the church and it just becomes mysticism. When human faith becomes the focus, the Holy Spirit is quenched, and there is a competition on the emotional focus. The worst Satanic attack is in the pride of man and his emotional instibiltiy.
When we focus on the absolute soveriegnty of God through the Spirit in the work of regeneration, then we are letting God be God in having His will over all things. Once we see that God does as He pleases we are going to have a mental picture of our regeneration in all of its supernatural movements that will not quench the Spirits work in our hearts. We will learn to rest in Christ , embracing justification by faith and our total inability to control the Holy Spirits work in us. We will have the proper submitted nature for His filling. We will not be decieved, we will know how to war against the wiles of the devil. Then enjesting scripture will be a further reason to have begin to acknowlege what humanly we have a hard time acknowleging and that is that we are totally depraved through and through.
When we accept calvinism we are then brought to glory in our weakness because we are trading our will for His Spirit to witness with our Spirit, so that we rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory. That is what brings about revival. It really is an understanding of the Spirits work in us and a submitting to His will because we acknowlege God to be God. We then start from a kings table ready to eat of the riches of all of the good things of the doctrines of grace. We can just eat and eat and eat and have a devotion that is so warm, so single minded so Spirit filled. We will learn to recognize Satanic forms of joy, emotional insecurities, and false forms of worship. We will begin  to battle in the Spiritual realm. There is no turning back. The amount of over flowing joy causes us to lust for more of the Spirit and the fellowship in the word.

8384	Forums / Theology Forum / Challenging The Holy Word, "church"	on: October 05, 2006, 06:23:12 PM
The church must be doing the basics, which is devotion first , that is in devotion it is more than just a head knowlege but there is a conviction that is spaun on by a desire that is implanted by the Holy Spirit in regeneration. What happens is that we do not devote ourselves to the basics, Scripture,fellowship, breaking of bread and prayer, and then meeting needs as they come up. There are doctrinal reasons that cause these devoted things to take a place amoung the congregation that puts these things on the back shelf. One is a devotion to a system of philosophy. People love to have practical systemamatic explainations for relationships. They make these rules equal with the scripture and that kills the devotion to the scriptures. Devotion to scripture is inflamed by the Holy Spirit as the scripture is ingested into the heart and then after awhile grace becomes bigger than life because the Spirit makes the desires grow. In devotion there is a supernatural unity that developes which comes from a single mindedness to the scripture. The Spirit and the scripture work to change a persons heart for better fellowship and a deeper holiness. The behaviour change comes as a result of an inflamed heart spurred on by grace as the scripture and the Spirit inflame the heart. So any thing that is introduced as relationally equivelant to the scritpural motif kills the unity of the church by creating phariseeism. Another thing that kills devotion is quenching the Spirit. The church is not necessarily and institution that offers teaching, but it is an organism where gifted people are educated by the Spirit to use their gifts in the service of one another. Quenching the Spirit is placing service as the central goal, and ignoring the organism motif. The Holy Spirit regenerates each person of whom He adds to the church for a specific purpose. The Holy Spirit works in each individual heart to bring about the unity that was originally purposed for that individual in regeneration. The Holy SPirit lust for control, by cause us to praise God the Father, to come into the throne room of prayer and to go directly to the Father both individually and cooporately so that praying without ceasing is keeping us holy so that we do not quench the Spirit. The Holy Spirit causes a believer to long for the word of God, desire the working of the Spirit in a revived state, causes a person to devote himself to spiritual things, and illuminates a person to apply these truths as He works in the unity of the fellowship so that a person can discern those spiritual forces and pray accordingly. The Holy Spirit does this by filling the heart with praise, longings for God, desiring His will above any other will, focusing on Christ work and being filled with that knowlege of Christ. When people are revived in the Holy Spirit there is a supernatural ability to have a unity of doctrine and agreement on who God is and just what kind of God they are worshipping. The filling of the Spirit is absolutely essential to have a unified church and a healthy church. 8387  Forums / Theology Forum / Bondage Of The Will on: October 04, 2006, 09:42:54 PM Wow , That is really physically taxing even to read it. I guess if we were thinking about being desperate we are talking about the depth of the soul being effected by the depth of the desperation. In order for grace to be added it must replace weakness and desperation. Well, people experience desperation in a loss of a loved one, in a trial that brings on depression. But really true desperation in its deepest sense originates from within. It is the darkness of the human heart with an overbearing sense of dread and helplessness. It really involves a speechless inward blackness that that no other physical pain can match. There really is no where to turn in that disposition except to a cry for help. There really are no feelings left to depend apoun. There is nothing to say except help me. And in that crying night and day there is a hope that maybe one day a hope will arise in the heart and will drive out that emptiness and blackness. In the cry in desperation is an outlet for that glimmer of hope. Then seeing that God has hidden Himself  there is a desperation that drives out mans self determination and confidence. There is a very big difference between a cry from the heart of a self confident person and a cry from the heart of a desperate person. First in a desperate person there is the realization that the cry to God for help is only going to end in the return of the desperation, and maybe even more depths of desperation. So that there is a sense in which the cry for help leads to a more desperate disposition. Maybe this experience is put into the human physicy in order to drive the sense of helplessness deeper into the heart through experiencing levels of desperation. I mean if you begin being desperate, and you think that that is all ther is and then you begin to smart from that disperation and you cry out to God for help, for grace, but then the experience of disperation is just begining and so you are brought down in experiencing more desperation so that you are as it were increasing your helplessness. Well that decline is what brings about a much deeper cry from the heart. A much more sincere cry. The sincerety of the cry equals the level of the desperation. In meditation there is a sense of what can happen when a person goes down into the depths of desperation in order for God to teach him not to trust in himself. In meditiation there is an very extreme focus on Christ as Savior so that the deep level of the desperation brings about the realization of an answer from a persons cry that makes that  answer more supernatural in the desperation. The supernatural element in deep desperation comes in the focus on Christ in the scripture, and Christ becomes more important than the desperation or the life of the person.Although in response to that supernatural sustaining God leaves nothing to the person to glory in himself because of the level of the desperation and its continuance convinces a person not to rely on self feelings. In desperation what is more important than the feelings is the actual words and promises of God that are written down. So that these crys and focus actually bring about a sustaining of a person in the desperation as if a person were under water receiving oxegen from a tank in order to continue to live. If we learn from our desperation, to tarry long in the word, holding onto every promise, looking for deliverance, waiting for Christ to speak peace to us, all of these things that are overshadowed by the sense of deep desperation will sustain us even tho we do not have a sense of Christ being near. See, there is a lesson of faith that can only be learned in helplessness. There are more unseen and unfelt sensations, more narrow human mindset, a narrowing of a persons loves and dependencies. There is a desperation that pushs a person to meditate so often that unless Christ becomes so real that person would be more desperate.