As you know Calvinist do not look at the
practical outworking of truth the same way as a semi pelganist or a
Baxter type. Even tho they may have some good things to say. Some
thoughts. You are not required by conscience to do anything that is not
mandated by scripture or left in the gray. So that we believe that we
live on a matter of principle rather than a set of rules for every
situation. So that if anyone teaches or believes anything other than
what your conscience is telling you by that training that is a matter of
control. Control is taking the glory of God away by adding to the
scripture by mandating.Think of it in terms of a co dependent. The
requirements are a matter of principle rather than a set rule. The
most dangerous disciple r is one who has just come out of an addiction.
Since the requirement of maturity is a conscience trained by grace
through the word of God, the bible makes a distinction between a legal
conscience and a mature conscience and does not point to the matter of
overcoming sin as a level of maturity. One who has a legal conscience
has a lack of understanding of grace. You are required to give freely without compulsion. Of your monies and of yourself. There
really is only one thing that God is concerned about. Either we are a
believer or an unbeliever. For the unbeliever it is under the wrath of
God, of whom is receiving the just consequence now. For the believer
there is now no condemnation. God is concerned about accusations coming
at us. We know who we are and we are fully convinced that sin has be
dealt with in Christ, but we dont always act like it. God is sovereign
and He has chosen to work through our prayers both corporate and
private. So we have full protection.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Friction Between Christians
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on: February 16, 2008, 11:37:10 AM
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Anyone in Christ is a new creation, the old is gone and the new has come
God has called us to go in the entire world and be his messenger,
Even
if you don’t have one verse memorized you can do that, in fact even
more effectively than the bible scholar if what you testify to is this
fact:
All I know is this, once I was blind, and now I can see
When we add to that, that’s when we start religion
Sometimes
we are just commanded to stand and fight or resist. And in some
generations there is more of a returning or reforming than a going. You
got to read the times in a generational sense. Gods not going to bring
people into a church that is divided. Even tho there are sheep with
wolves, if the direction of the church is divided then how can anyone
experience reformation? In this case we are lead more to pray for a
return than to bring in some who will just be devoured by sin. Sometimes
we are led to mourn all our days.
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6648
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Jealousy is Dangeous
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on: February 16, 2008, 11:23:43 AM
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Jealousy can be good. The Lord is jealous of
His own. He will not share His own with an idol. Because we are so
easily given to idols, we are so prone to wander away from the flock.
Because He is jealous for us, He goes out and brings us back from our
wandering. Since we belong to Him our faith will endure till the end. So
that we are made to feel our need in the pain we experience when we
seek other things and inanimate ideas to replace our one longing for His
glory. We begin to stray when we have other loves that replace Him as
our chief object of our affection. But because He has promised to always
lead us in the rite path, and that we will hear His voice always, we
only will get caught in a snare but we will be protected from going down
to the pit. His faithfulness and unfailing kindness will draw us back.
We can never have two gods of equal value as believers. But we can
live as tho we have another god, at least for a short time. But God will
begin to bring in these fences so that we will experience value of His
path and the unfulfilled nature of the other worldly god. Our longings
to return to the place where we were at the beginning will be fulfilled.
Because He has become our object of affection, we will always get what
we long for, but the wicked will never receive what they long for, but
will be like chaff that blows in the wind. For this is our hope in our
covenant longing, that even tho we are under a trial or we slip into
that sin that so easily besets, yet we will triumph in the end! Because
we will have a hope that not even sin can overcome. Our hope is Him and
it will be fulfilled in the end, even when all present hope is
smothered. In the end, we will only see with our eyes and observe the
punishment of the wicked!
What a misery for a believer to
be caught in the web of having another love that has been leading Him
down the path of breaking covenant faithfulness with our covenant maker.
What misery it is to have in your own bosom, a spouse, or a family
member that breaks covenant with our covenant keeper. There is a traitor
that will break all bounds of covenant love to possess, riches,
friends, and worldly pursuits to go blindly down to the pit. How long
must this struggle go on until He returns to bring about revival? Come
Lord! For our nation is divided in their families, churches, and loves.
Help us to be jealous the way you are jealous, so that we will hate what
you hate and love what you love! Let not man triumph!
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6649
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Less Is More
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on: February 16, 2008, 11:01:33 AM
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11 Tim. 2:8. Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel, 9. for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned... 15.
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who
does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: February 15, 2008, 08:31:13 PM
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I agree TB. And sometimes the fire of a trial
can become so hot that we are over come with grief so that we cannot see
our hoping in Him. We have had experiences where our hope would last
through any circumstance. And this kind of hope is mixed with joys. But
then we go through a big fire of a test, and we begin to look back. And
this is what we do to have this kind of grief. But we are so self
sufficient that this kind of grief puts us in a real battle in our minds
and in our prayers. There is a cry of the heart in the mixed grief and
then there is a cry in the grief that comes where there seems no way
out. But we are to resist the devil. So that it is learning how to
resist that is the way of learning to be content in any thing that we go
through.
We must be aware of his tactics. As you have said,
Gods discipline always ends in us praising Him for His eternal present
help and HIs grace to keep us from being under the trouble. But we must
learn to fight with the weapons that are spiritual. For our wrestling
sometimes can be long and without the comforts that we normally enjoy,
that jolt of joy that comes in so that we end in longing in His
unfailing love.
But in these deep temptations we must go by
memories of His love in the past, of what our spiritual fathers have
told us, and of hoping in His word, rather than the effects of His word.
When we hope on His word, then we learn to desire His word above our
feeling the comforts of His present work.
So that instead of grief
mixed with joy, we have deep darkness mixed with hoping in His word to
get to the joy. So that we spend more time in meditation to look for the
answer , than we do to get the immediate answer.
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6657
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: February 15, 2008, 08:02:30 PM
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All of us want to be so filled with the
Spirit so that we rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory. We
would want to know the Spirit in such a way that we could have a sense
of His dwelling in us by a peace that passes all understanding. In this
kind of fellowship we are aware of our need to be so dependent on God,
so that we long for Him through His word, and in that longing we close
with Him in the answer even if it takes yrs. But we cannot have this
kind of peace and joy without dependence. So that we are taught to
depend upon Him as we hope in His unfailing love. For His love
overshadows His justice, and His discipline. Because He treats us as a
child coming to His Father for full pardon and acceptance. Thats why
when we have a choice to be punished by our heavenly Father , or earthly
authority, we would always choose Gods discipline. Because He
disciplines us in His mercy, not repaying us for what we deserve. Our
Father gives us the grace to overcome our falls, by being present with
us in the trial, and upholding us so that we are able to overcome. Why
would we think that He would treat us as a sinful father? First God as
our Father is always open for us to come to Him. He looks for those who
seek Him. He looks for the contrite heart, who isn t afraid to trust Him
with all of their sins, the ones that are hard to give up, the ones
that are given up for the wrong reasons, and the sins that we keep going
back to. Since we stand as completely forgiven before we ask Him for
forgiveness, we stand as completely able in Him to be a peace after we
sin. And even tho we want to beat ourselves about our sins, yet the
Father does not deal with us through the path of self examination. But
He deals with us in spite of our corruption and rebellion. There
is no reason why God should not bless us with all of the spiritual
blessing in the heaven lies. And if He should choose to bless us with
riches, then we are more to praise Him. But we only have to ask Him. He
has chosen to bless us through our communication to Him. He wants to
pour out His blessing and Spirit on us, being filled with the knowledge
of His love through the Spirit. And we only need to open all of our
problems to Him in prayer, pouring our hearts out to Him. Telling Him of
all of the problems and sins that we are troubled about. He wants to
hear all of our troubles. He is delighted to have us dump our burdens to
Him in this way, and even tho we never really give all of our troubles,
yet we can have such a measure of His divine forgiveness and refuge
that we gain a different view of those burdens and how we sense them
being lightened. Its not our job to worry in this way. It is Gods
infinite love that we are to be delighting in, it is His faithfulness
that we are to be eying so that we wait for Him as a watchman waits for
the morning.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: February 08, 2008, 03:40:05 PM
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I
agree that the flesh can be a monster that roars. Its a dangerous
monster with a controlling desire to ruin ever part of our free
spiritual experience. The monster cant be
ignore, caged , or redefined. You can try to cage it with prohibitions
as do not taste, touch, or feel but it will just rage more, as if you
were feeding it raw meat. Or you can try to ignore it and it will sneak
up on you and destroy you, because the worse thing you can do is to be
blind to its movements. Or you can try to redefine it by saying that it
is an addiction, a disease, or a negative way of thinking, but it will
prove that it is alive in you and will come as an angel of light.
Theres
only one way to deal with the monster. David says Thy word have i hid
in my heart that i might not sin against God. You got to attack it with
the word, but you will never kill it, but you will make it so small
that there is only a faint sound, and it will be so weak that it will
not roar louder than the sounding of the beautiful trumpet sounds of
Gods mountain worship experience.
Was going over
this post and something here caught my eye, Mbg. How like the One Ring
in The Lord of the Rings is our flesh. It was something that you could
not just throw away, lock-up, or in any other way get rid off except by a
very prescribed manner that happened at the end of a very long,
dangerous and ardous journey. I also do not necessarily re-define my
sins as diseases all of the time. I do know (from experience) that there
are certain sins, once engaged in past a certain point, that do indeed
lay claim to the body and the mind and (in addition to the spiritual
component) must be treated as diseases - because they now are! (Whatever
they may have begun as). The late Christian apologist Dr. Walter
Martin, (of whom we now have Hank Hanegraff as a legacy), defined
alcoholism as something that "Begins as a sin, and ends as a disease."
We are composite beings. We cannot sin with impunity in one area of our
lives and not have it (eventually) rule and ruin every other area as
well. I found out the hard way (several times) that just
prayer/fellowship/reading my bible are not (by themselves) going to help
me with that component of my fallen nature that is still in thrall to
drugs and alcohol. The whole man must be addressed here. I need to now
realize that no matter how "sanctified" I become in my walk with the
Lord, I am always going to have a mind/body/spirit paradigm that will always react negatively whenever I willfully pick and up a drink or drug. Anyway, that is getting slightly off-topic. Just thought that angle needed to be briefly addressed.
There
could be a physical addiction. Possibly a chemical imbalance. A check
up is important and communicating with a doctor is important. God
is a spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. We worship
Him by getting to the point were we are fully satisfied with Him. The
more we are satisfied with Him in these moments of time as we meditate
on Him ,partake in the means He has given us to grow, bible , prayer,
private and corporate, as well as partaking of the Supper, and preaching
then we are going to experience Him as our Father. God is near, and His
presence is all consuming even tho we see very little of the divine
illumination of Jesus Christ through the dim glass. Yet when He is near
we are in need of nothing, and we are experiencing a power satisfaction
above the power of temptation. If God should hide His face,
then we must seek His face. "My heart says seek Your face Your face I
will seek. Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away
in anger."(Or treat me as if i were distant.) So that the more we see
His face, the more we will experience His love as Father, and the more
we will experience healing or renewal. We will value these things more
than gold. So that if He should choose to hide His face once more, then
we will experience the power of temptation anew. Being away from Him and
not fellowshipping with Him is being exposed to these powers. There
is no middle ground in the Christian life. The more we are exposed to
the word , the more confidence we will have in Him, the less we will
have of our own abilities to overcome temptation and the devils attacks
from the unsaved , the world and the flesh. So we are caught in this
paradigm of completeness and being righteous in Him, and the process of
being completed through sanctification. So that His working in us is
keeping us from temptation, and preserving us in the world. We do not
think in a zero sum game, as if protection was saving up His power by
what we do, not even practicing the means can keep us from falling. It
is God alone, and when we find God we need no other power. "The prayer
of the righteous availed much." But when He hides His face,
then we experience fear, temptation, doubt, and a sense of being angry
or feeling distant from Him. So that we are left to believe in things
unseen. We cant trust our own experience of Him always being present and
having all that satisfaction. These times are determined for us so that
we will grow and expect greater things from Him. He promises to give us
abundantly more than we can ask or think, but we must go through the
sanctifying process of pain in order for Him to mature us to give us
these new spiritual things. Even tho we have been given all that we need
for life and godliness, yet our understanding of these things and our
experience in these things are in process. If we go into a given
situation, if God is near, then we will not view it as a temptation as
being exposed to the society of the world, but rather we will look for a
level of satisfaction in that circumstance. (common grace) So we are
always aware of His presence among us even tho those around us do not
see it. But if we are in a trial, then we will be tempted to see these
societies as temptations to us even tho God may be more present than
normal. So the way we think is how God is working in us at the present
time, as to these different areas of faith. So we are left in this trial
in a mournful state.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: February 04, 2008, 12:00:19 PM
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I think there is some confusion here as to
what is the choice by desire and a longing by grace. In this secularist
society we sorta have divorced our doctrinally correct desires that are
subject from the practical story of our lives. We live with a moral
story as the drive to be more like Christ,and really , this is not the
theological view from history of Christ alone, faith alone, grace alone
paradigm. We are very immature in our understanding of how these
renewed desires determine our choices.
Basically, what ever we
choose is what we desire most. So that this is not just a horizontal
human story built around human responsibility , or a new way of
communication by a certain philosophical set of standards of
communication. But at the core of reality is the desire from
regeneration so that we begin to desire good from these new infant
longings, and as babes in Christ we grow into mature renewed desires of
love to Christ out of these longings for His glory. More and more we
begin to choose what He is most glorified with.
But then we
are human with passions and longings that are from our needs both
physical and emotional. These renewed desires are not separate from our
human needs but they go through our emotions and imaginations to bring
about this renewal. And so these renewed christian desires are
intermixed with our natural passions along with the corruption from our
own sin and rebellion. So that there is this great war going on inside
of us, at times we are looking into the word and seeing Christ a glimpse
of the light of His countenance shining in our understanding so that we
are inflamed with the desire to love Him above any other object. But
then all of these hopes are dashed by temptation, sorrow,
misunderstandings, and a lack of personal understanding. So that we are
always longing but never having complete fulfillment. Or having such
deep longings that we experience the effects much stronger on the
corrupted realizations.
To often when we just focus on the
secularist's view of human relationships we use the truth to trump up a
story that puts our behavior in the best possible light in the story and
then it all sounds good, but it really gets us no where in learning to
develop this new birth single minded focus in which we can have a real
sense that we are connected to the vine , and our life flow is those new
birth desires that put flesh on our thinking all of these things out.
Christ
is not offering a patch work relational truce. But there is only two
realities, Either we are standing on the rock, or we are being dashed by
the rock. And in the closest human relationships it does matter about
being unequally yoked. And there is a secret war going on for that
allegiance. David and Johnathan had a relationship in which there hearts
were in such union of purpose that they experience a love greater than a
womans. David had such longings for God, that He lived day and night in
praise on the one hand and mourning on the other, in order to begin to
desire those things that God would be most pleased with. And so he and
Jonathan developed this spiritual union of purpose so that they were so
like minded that they felt each others desires. They felt Gods pleasure
together more than any other relationship in scripture even among the
women.
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6697
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: February 04, 2008, 04:32:15 AM
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We
are all told in scripture "flesh begets flesh and spirit begets
spirit." (Though I am probably taking liberties by paraphrasing it to
the nth degree!). It can get one to "chase one's tale" at times trying
to figure out in just where in the length and breadth of a person's walk
with God, one leaves off, and the other begins. As I have stated
before, if I leave off my prayers and bible study (such as they are)
until I "really feel the need," it could be a good long time before I
ever partake of either again. If my "sense of duty" proceeds from my
flesh, (i.e.
"I-gotta-keep-doing-this-or-else-I'll-end-up-in-worse-straights-than-I
am), then nothing will ever proceed from it except frustration and
disillusionment. (And perhaps these will be the catalyst to bring about
the much-needed change God is seeking in me).
Anyway, if you could boil-down my prayers at night to their bare essence, they would simply be: "God, I wanna wanna!"
Because much of the time, a desire for the desire is the best I can
muster. The only thing left to do, is what to do with the blessed
mean-time. (And I could always think of other adjectives apart from
"blessed"). And the only answer that seems to come back is: "Proceed as
usual."
(To which my only reply seems to be: "Ooooookay!").
About the only thing different happening as of right now, is I am trying
to get an extra 30 seconds of genuine quiet time with God. (Which I am
always hoping will turn into an extra 30 after that and so on).
Here
is the dangerous part for me; If I come to find that the "desire" comes
at the end of the journey, (not "life," but "discipleship"). Then I may
come to the end of it being extreeeemely upset! I would say: I needed you to carry me through the journey, not be the prize at the end of the journey! (I am talking about the "desire"
mind
you). As for me, the only logical place for it to be (and I don't
necessarily mean always), is with you while you pursue your beloved.
(Can you imagine courting a woman just to find out whether or not you
are in love with her? - of course not! Love is what preceded and must precede it! - and yes, I am talking about the emotions too, not just the much-vaunted choice!).
Anyway,
that is my "State of the Union Address." This is probably the closest
I've come to being exhaustively honest in dealing with God (yes, I
wasn't just communicationg with my thread-fellows here), In a little
while. Hope someone got something out of this. I got something out of me!
P.S.
I would like to know why my paragraphs keep splitting every now and
then for no good reason whenever I add or take away so much as one
letter - it is really bleeding irritating!
I ve been extremely busy, but i do want to answer you. Got to go.
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6698
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: I'm cool about gambling, maybe not
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on: February 03, 2008, 06:15:19 PM
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Or
God can bring wealth to people for His purposes like Joseph in Egypt or
Esther in the court of the Persian king. In terms of pure numbers and
due to the humble circles I live in, I have certainly encountered far
more embittered and greedy poor and middle-class people than I have
ungodly rich.
It's not for us to judge such circumstances. As Paul said:
Philippians
4:12-13 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have
plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every
situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in
want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength.
I
don t agree with you. I think the rich are warned far more than the
poor in the entire counsel. Its hard to be self confident when you are
living from one pay check to another. James 2 1. My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. 2.
For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed
in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes, 3.
and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine
clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the
poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool," 4. have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives? 5. Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6. But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court? Matthew 19 24.
"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye
of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." If i were a gambling man, these would not be very good odds.
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6699
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: I'm cool about gambling, maybe not
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on: February 03, 2008, 07:13:21 AM
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Just because someone gets a return on his
investment doesn t mean the wise investment is good for his soul. Rather
it could be a big temptation. Dont make me rich and then i will forget
you, or make me poor and then i will become bitter. The end of having a
lot of wealth may be trying to pry your hands off the monies for the
sake of denying everything for the kingdom of God.
There are more
people who fall into temptation and a great snare to have their hearts
drawn away from loving Him alone than can handle the riches. A man who
has riches without understanding is like a beast that perishes. So that
sometimes getting what you want is not such a good thing.
As the
psalmist says "Whom have i in heaven but you, and being with you i
desire nothing on earth." Desiring His glory is all consuming.
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