Where
is real rest? Is it not in God? We pant for more of God as a deer pants
for water? Can we ever become exausted or bored with panting for God?
Doesnt the panting create the thirst so that the future pantings will
grow in number and in depth? We can always count on God to create the
desire in us to pant and then desire in us that creation to recreation
,for in God is a fluid stream of decreed desire of reciprocol loves.
Infused
love to a dried up heart is a grace that causes rest, peacing in God.
Lonliness is not contagious in God. For God alone is my companion of
existence. To exist is to be in God, where self is caught up in God
alone.
If peace is to be lived in, then the lostness of my panting
must find its loneliness in His mercy, for mercys thirst is lonlinesses
end.
| 9672
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Forums / Main Forum / Jesus
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on: February 08, 2006, 05:10:32 PM
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Jesus
is all in all. He is the begining of my loves and the end of my loves.
He is my righteousness, He is my power, HE is my forgiveness, He is my
king, He is my refuge, He is my life giver, He is my sheild, He is my
healer, He is my salvation,He is my friend, He is my advocate, He is my
joy, He stoops lower than my deepest lows, He forgives my worse sin, He
goes farther than i could in any endeavor i undertake,He tells me He
loves me, He tells me of my Fathers love, He has sent His Spirit into my
heart, He meets my needs, He feeds me even when i dont thank Him, He
provides clothes for me and my loved ones, He is my greatest desire, He
is my light, He is my cry for help, He helps me morn over my sin, He is
my grace, He gives me more love than i can handle, He moves my heart to
love others, He is there right next to me when i am lonely holding me
and giving me hugs, He joy, He is my sweet sleep, He is my protector, He
is my physician, He is my Lord, He releives my anxiety, He is the song
of my heart, He is my illuminator, He knows all of my secret sins, He
knows just how to get me out of trouble when i put my self into trouble,
He goes before me and prepares other people to love me, He guides me
out of temptation, He holds onto me when i give into temptation so that i
do not fall greater than i could have, He hears me when i speak to Him,
He answers me with a word of encouragement, He tells other people when i
am in trouble and tells them to encourage me, He watches over my kids
when i am not there, He helps my wife and i love each other, He
encourages me in every turn, He helps me think thoughts that are good,
He strengthens my heart so that i can have confidence, He protects me
from the devil, He loves me because He chooses to love me and not any
thing in myself, He has led me for His purpose in every second of my
life, He is my greatest thought, He controls my tounge, He makes
countenance shine, He has protected me in car accidents, He has
protected me in sports, He gives my body strength to perform work, He
trained me to do my job, He knows my thoughts before i think them,He
wakes me up in the morning, He fellowships with my heart in the day, He
makes my prayers acceptable to the Father, He pleads to the Father for
me, He brings storms into my life so He can help me forget myself and
then i will trust Him more, i will lean on Him and hold on tight to Him,
He is the sweetest name i know, He makes me know myself, He is the
alpha and the omega, He is the eternal God.[/size]
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9673
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Forums / Theology Forum / The Bible Driven Church
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on: February 08, 2006, 03:11:11 AM
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We
are so dependent to the thoughts of God that any determination of
rational thinking that is corrupted is painful. It is painful because
there is so much conflict in us that unless we expose our innermost
being to the word we are in a constant state of numbness.That process of
redefining the forces of the conflict by that exposure is beyond
rational processes alone. We must be infused with greater desires than
the opposite desires in that conflict.
Yet the supreme action in the
conflict is from the mind. The mind must be convinced by understanding
the nature of these forces that come out of the divine. That source
action from the divine source brings about a revelation of the conflict
so that in that identity we understand what kind of reception is
required in the mind grasping an understanding of the true nature of the
divine.
The mind must be in constant activity on the divine things
for it to be a healthy mind. The mind is a vessel that when used gains
greater aridation for the soul as it is brought to exaustion. It is
truely a place fit for battle. Trying to exhuast the mind is like trying
to climb mount everest. The mind is always working, always forming new
areas of thought, always devising, almost never resting even in sleep. A
mind exhuasted in divine things will super abound in strength.
The
mind full of the divine dictates aroriates the soul with life as if God
breathes life into a person. It collects ideas, records, passionate
connections to truth,memories of what disposition the soul lives in. In
reading past dispositions it forms a greater understanding of the divine
and lust for more of these transforming infusions.
| 9679
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Forums / Main Forum / Perfectionism
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on: February 07, 2006, 01:50:43 PM
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The more a true
saint loves God with a gracious love, the more he desires to love him,
and the more uneasy is he at his want of love to him; the more he hates
sin, the more he desires to hate it, and laments that he has so much
remaining love to it; the more he mourns for sin, the more he longs to
mourn for sin; the more his heart is broke, the more he desires it
should be broke the more he thirsts and longs after God and holiness,
the more he longs to long, and breathe out his very soul in longings
after God: the kindling and raising of gracious affections is like
kindling a flame; the higher it is raised, the more ardent it is; and
the more it burns, the more vehemently does it tend and seek to burn.Here
is the new desires we are given at our salvation. Before we were saved
we only had desires please ourselves. We made choices that were
according to how it made us look to other people and made us feel good
about ourselves.
Perfectionism is when we think like a pagan. We
think that our choices are purely rational. We think that we can reason
through the command to obey and obey by choosing to obey in our own
power. When we have this view of choosing we set up our own standards so
that we can rationally prove that we obey.
Edwards is saying that
when we were pagans we sinned because we were sinners. In other words we
desired to sin more than we desired to obey. We choose one thing over
another based apoun how it pleased us. We loved sin and the pleasure and
so that love of sin grew as we sinned. In the mean time we reasoned
that we did more good than sin to protected our pleasure in that sin.So
sin became a way of life.
When we were given new desires at salvation
it reversed our desires. Now we love God because we are regenerated and
we have the Holy Spirit. We are made new. We desire God. Now our
desires for Gods glory grow as we desire more of Him. The longer we live
the more we learn His will the more we desire to love Him the greater
the desires become. On the reverse we hate sin. We feel bad about
displeasing Him. We react against sin by mourning over sin. This desire
grows as our desires to love God grow.
A prefectionist does not
consider that God changes the inside before the outside is changed. He
thinks that he can will a change without the proper desires to change.
He leaves out grace by self will. Grace is the power to change the heart
and thus changes the desires. All inward change comes from grace. God
is the only one who can change the heart. He does it by grace.[/color]
So
that the spiritual appetite after holiness, and an increase of holy
affections is much more lively and keen in those that are eminent in
holiness, than others, and more when grace and holy affections are in
their most lively exercise, than at other times. It is as much the
nature of one that is spiritually new born, to thirst after growth in
holiness, as it is the nature of a new born babe to thirst after the
mother's breast; who has the sharpest appetite, when best in health. 1
Pet. 2:2, 3, \"As new born babes, desire the sincere milk of the word,
that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is
gracious.\" The most that the saints have in this world, is but a taste,
a prelibation of that future glory which is their proper fullness; it
is only an earnest of their future inheritance in their hearts, 2 Cor.
1:22, and 5:5, and Eph. 1:14.
[span
style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']As our desires grow in us
through the means of grace we begin to be passionate about Christ. As
the passion increases so the holiness increases. It is through grace an
by love in relationship that we are made holy. Not by some outward
performance of self will. The most eminent saints in this
state are but children, compared with their future, which is their
proper state of maturity and perfection; as the apostle observes, 1 Cor.
13:10, 11. The greatest eminency that the saints arrive to in this
world, has no tendency to satiety, or to abate their desires after more;
but, on the contrary, makes them more eager to press forwards; as is
evident by the apostle's words, Phil. 3:13, 14, 15: \"Forgetting those
things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are
before, I press towards the mark.--Let us therefore, as many as be
perfect, be thus minded.\"
The reasons of it are, that the more
persons have of holy affections, the more they have of that spiritual
taste which I have spoken of elsewhere; whereby they perceive the
excellency, and relish the divine sweetness of holiness.
| 9686
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Forums / Theology Forum / The Bible Driven Church
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on: February 04, 2006, 05:21:46 AM
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The
word aπαuγασμα means here nothing else but visible light or
refulgence, such as our eyes can bear; and χαÏακτnÏ is the vivid
form of a hidden substance. By the first word we are reminded that
without Christ there is no light, but only darkness; for as God is the
only true light by which it behaves us all to be illuminated, this light
sheds itself upon us, so to speak, only by irradiation. By the second
word we are reminded that God is truly and really known in Christ; for
he is not his obscure or shadowy image, but his impress which resembles
him, as money the impress of the die with which it is stamped. But the
Apostle indeed says what is more than this, even that the substance of
the Father is in a manner engraven on the Son.3
The word
uποστaσεως which, by following others, I have rendered
substance, denotes not, as I think, the being or essence of the Father,
but his person; for it would be strange to say that the essence of God
is impressed on Christ, as the essence of both is simply the same. But
it may truly and fitly be said that whatever peculiarly belongs to the
Father is exhibited in Christ, so that he who knows him knows what is in
the Father. And in this sense do the orthodox fathers take this term,
hypostasis, considering it to be threefold in God, while the essence
(oujsi]a) is simply one. Hilary everywhere takes the Latin word
substance for person. But though it be not the Apostle's object in this
place to speak of what Christ is in himself, but of what he is really to
us, yet he sufficiently confutes the Asians and Sabellians; for he
claims for Christ what belongs to God alone, and also refers to two
distinct persons, as to the Father and the Son. For we hence learn that
the Son is one God with the Father, and that he is yet in a sense
distinct from him, so that a subsistence or person belongs to
both.Calvins commentary on Heb.1;3
hypostasis-1 a : something
that settles at the bottom of a fluid b : the settling of blood in the
dependent parts of an organ or body
2 : PERSON 3
3 a : the substance or essential nature of an individual b : something that is hypostatized
BDAG
:uποστaσεως - the essential; or basic structure /nature of an
entity substantial nature, essence, actual being, reality. of the Son of
God ,exact representation of Gods real being
aπαuγασμα act.
radiance,effulgence, in the sense of brightness from a source; pass.
reflection i.e. brightness shining back. Philo used the word of the
relation of the Logos to God.
χαÏακτnÏ-something produced as a
representation, reproduction, representation fig. of God -(God) formed a
human being as reproduction of his own identity/reality.
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Its
not just the moral choices -that is it is not just the ten commandments
to be obeyed but it is the understanding who God is by those
commandments and the cherishing the nature of God that creates holiness.
Getting a spiritual tastes.
And the more grace they have,
while in this state of imperfection, the more they see their
imperfection and emptiness, and distance from what ought to be: and so
the more do they see their need of grace; as I showed at large before,
when speaking of the nature of evangelical humiliation. And besides,
grace, as long as it is imperfect, is of a growing nature, and in a
growing state. And we see it to be so with all living things, that while
they are in a state of imperfection, and in their growing state, their
nature seeks after growth; and so much the more, as they are more
healthy and prosperous. Therefore the cry of every true grace, is like
that cry of true faith, Mark 9:24: \"Lord, I believe, help thou my
unbelief.\" And the greater spiritual discoveries and affections the
true Christian has, the more does he become an earnest beggar for grace,
and spiritual food, that he may grow; and the more earnestly does he
pursue after it, in the use of proper means and endeavors; for true and
gracious longings after holiness are no idle ineffectual desires.
J Edwards.
Here
we have a difference in how we as christians approach sin an grace. We
do not love to sin because we are given grace. We hate sin but yet we
need grace. It is really the attitude we have about sin and grace and
not in the fundamental relationship grace has to sin. [/span]
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9681
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Forums / Theology Forum / The Bible Driven Church
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on: February 05, 2006, 02:57:49 AM
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Brothers
, Unless we are confronted by trials we are only going to grow cold and
lifeless in our experience. We must be proded, pushed and shoved into
His grace! We cannot have the flames of grace engulfing us if we there
is no fire. Jesus is the only one who knows us inside and out, He is the
only one who can truely make us feel good inside about our selves and
our circumstances.
There is no place, sin or depression He will not
uphold us as we struggle . He is full of love, full of peace, full of
joy in the Holy Ghost! The opposite of inward pressure is peace, the
opposite of depression is joy. The Holy Ghost hovers over our place of
trials and grants us winds of comfort and eternal experiences as these
temporary things push us into our Fathers arms. We are in a world of
uncertianty, engulfed in a depraved society. The only comfort we have is
in the one who sets these things rite. He can set these things rite in
us as we are ingulfed in these circumstances. Go to Him and ask for the
Power, we want the dynamite power, the power of eternal care, the power
of the Holy Ghost!
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9682
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Forums / Theology Forum / The Bible Driven Church
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on: February 05, 2006, 02:23:59 AM
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Snares
are a temporary problem for us as believers. We have a most gracious
God who we turn to in when we get caught in them. His name is always
faithful, full of love, gracious, forgiving, kind. He is our place of
refuge. When we know that we have gone from the wading waters into the
deep waters where we feel helpless there is a tendency to look at our
circumstances and our sin and conclude that God is not in these waters.
If
we enter waters that are too deep for us we are confronted by those who
want to push our heads under, and our guilt and shame that drives us
even deeper, as if we were walking down into the bottom of a lake.
We
conclude that this snare is too much for any ones care of us. We feel
the weight of our sin and we feel the weight of our accusers. We know
that struggling with a sin is taking the life rite out of us and we have
a hard time gaining peace and understanding grace in these waters. We
must preach to ourselves as if we were ready to be over taken by the
waters.
We must understand that our experiencing guilt and shame
before our accusers is not like experiencing a refuge from the only one
in whom we have to rely on. We must see that He knows that the floods of
guilt and shame and ungracious people are about to engulf us and we
must experience grace in these deep waters.
He brings us to the deep
waters to increase our trust in Him. We can take refuge in Him with our
head just sticking above the waves. We can tread the waves in the loving
arms of our Father. A christian is not one who stays in the shallow
waters and enjoys the sun and the coolness of the waters. A christian is
one who struggles as he grows and ends up going out into the deep
waters.
There in those waters is a refuge, there is a great
experience of faith. The deep waters have great pressure pushing on our
bodies. They threaten to engulf us and swollow us up. We can tread only
for a short while and then we will go under. Yet we never go under with
our taking refuge in Him. We experience all the sensations of going
under. Yet we cast ourselves on His mercy and we experience a very
powerful rescuer. What safety we have in Him in the deepest of lifes
trials. He is there in the deep waters!
| 9689
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Forums / Theology Forum / The Bible Driven Church
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on: February 02, 2006, 01:54:33 PM
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God
is a refuge in times of trouble. Being in trouble is not foriegn to a
christian. The problem with us is that we as christians do not take
refuge in Christ. A refuge is a place of safety. Having a refuge in the
spiritual life of a believer is volatel. First resting in Christ is an
exercise of faith. Resting in the spriritual realm is not an absence of
trouble or opposite force. Its having peace based apoun faith in an
object that overcomes all adversity. It is a battle in the mind will and
emotions.
If you dwell in a shadow, you experience many sensations.
You experience a cool breeze, and you are over shadowed by a taller
object. Then you would be engulfed in that shadow. I can get an
understanding of the shadows by being in the mountians, being shadowed
by a storm, having the clouds block the sunlight on a warm day, the
planets block the moons light and so you are in a very black universe.
Any thing that is higher than my vision abilities brings about these
sensations of safety if i dwell on these great high things.
The
highest being in the universe is God. If you can visualize immediate
places and things that are high then you can try to imagine from that
perspective of things that are beyond this universe. If you think about
it God overshadows from the highest point. Nothing gets beyond Him. Now
just thinking in these terms creates in me an ultimate refuge. If
nothing is higher than God and then looking at these objects for a
sensation of safety then i have the ultimate refuge in God.
Think now
about what the highest being could do by His power as He sits on His
throne with His footstool as the earth. Think about the ability He has
to over see the universe. He could as it were throw down hail, shoot
lightning out from His throne, blast snowstorms all of the earth, even
shoot arrows at His enemys, send storms over the earth and hurricanes
,even a blowing of a brezze into the ears. All done as He sits on the
highest throne. He could reach down His hand and pull you out of
trouble. He could come down as a mighty warrior and enact punishment on
the wicked in war. See at that height there is nothing outside of His
vision. He could come down as a mighty warrior and save you from any
thing that threatens you as a believer. Now this is the picture of Gods
refuge for us.
Thinking like this is only half the concept. How can
we rest just thinking of the Height of Gods rule? Its got to at some
point become personal to us. If we just conceived of God as the heighest
being who does these things then it would only give us reasons to trust
in a God who does these thing. He must be owned as my God. My Saviour.
It must be a confession on my lips. When i speak of Him it is not the Great God in the sky, it is my refuge! my Most High!
All
of these great powers that God displays on a daily basis are seen by
the whole world. Yet they really do become to my personal benifit as a
christian. What would i consider a threat to my well being? It comes in
the word \"snare\". These are traps set by an enemy. Think about what
causes snares to come into our lives. You have your own sin, other
peoples plots, accusations from freinds, and then traitors.
Now we
start from the towering objects in our world , we go to thinking in
terms of Gods throne as the most high and that vision works its power in
our every day problems. This is part of the concept of refuge.
Refuge
is a place of trust in the midst of all of these snares. It is a place
of trust where our finite vision is tried. We see trouble encircleing
us. We see enemies within and without. There is an adversarial
experience in taking refuge in God. Peace comes when we rise above our
finite vision by faith as we look into the face of trouble. Faith must
be like a shadow, where we actually experience peace in resting in
Christ. If i said that there is a refuge i go to and do not experience
that peace then i would not value that place of refuge. If i dont value
it i would not spend time experienceing it.
In faith we act to plead
the promises, we look at the circumstances and cast ourselves on Christ
in prayer. In faith we seek to walk a grace pathway as we rest in Christ
not trusting in our own power or abilities but in His ability to
deliever us as we see Him in faith.
| 9696
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Forums / Theology Forum / The Bible Driven Church
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on: January 29, 2006, 06:13:09 AM
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I
am not dissagreeing with you. I am giving you the confession as well. I
agree that we must work toward being sanctified. As i stated we are
given the means of grace in order to be sanctified. What do you mean
that i am trying to cut sanctification out all together?
My problem
with what you said above is that you left out the details of the
doctrine of justification and our corruption and good works. Do you
believe that good works are only acceptable because of Christ
righteousness?
First you are mixing pelaginism with semi
pelaginism in your discription of the other side. I was not saying that
the semi pelaginist believed that we must work to be saved. That is the
Roman error-pelaginism-.
Semi plagenist believe that we are saved by
grace through faith but they have a kink in their system of doctrine
when they say that the will is not corrupted.Which has a profound effect
on how they view justification by faith. Now they say that a person
must exercise faith in order to be regenerated. We believe that we are
dead in sins and are unable to come to God until He regenerates us. They
believe in a different grace than we do. They believe that grace can be
resisted, we believe that grace is irresistable.
Now if i believed
that grace can be resisted dont you think that i would approach these
practical outworkings in a much different way than a Calvinist?
If i
thought that i was able to choose salvation of my own free will ,dont
you think that i would live my christian life with that view in my
works? I would try to hold onto my salvation by working to keep it even
tho i acknowlege that salvation was by grace.
I believe that words
mean things, we create propositions with them that bring about a world
view that effect how a person lives. We do not think in a divided way
about doctrine and the practical. We are not saying \" Now that we know
the doctrine lets get to the practical\" which would be like saying
\"now that we are saved lets put our bibles on the shelf and create a
system of philosophy for behaviour. \" Which semplified is \"God will do
when you do \"We believe doctrine makes the practice correct.
\"Sanctify them by thy truth thy word is truth.\" The word is the cheif
means to effect the proper practical outworking.
A semi pelagenist
represents the will as being inbetween two equal forces ,the good and
the bad. This makes the will powerless, which puts the force on the
object of choice. This is pragmatism. This thinking elevates pholosophy
to an equal level of scripture. Scripture must stand alone as the
absolute authority. This thinking has a great effect on the practical
outworkings of individuals and church societies.
We need to be very
detailed as to what we believe in order for us to logically think
through the doctrine of sanctification because we are either too self
righteous or we are always disobedient. Both extremes are sin.
| 9700
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Forums / Theology Forum / The Bible Driven Church
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on: January 25, 2006, 10:50:12 PM
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Grace
is a favor granted to the undeserved. First in order for us to
understand grace we must understand the nature of the condition that we
were brought out of. We were darkened in our minds and unable to
apprehend any thing spiritually good. We were dead in sin and
trespasses. We were without hope.
We were given over to all
kinds of lust to fulfill them. We had no control over our impulses so we
were in bondage with all of our motives being selfish.
The law was a
school master to us. We heard the law and we felt condemned which made
us afraid of God. We recoiled from any thing spiritual because it
reminded us of that being under the weight of guilt, with such a burden
that we would imagine evil in others who had no reason to attack us.
We
hated God with a violent hatred. We joined with others like ourselve to
mock God so that we could relieve our consciences so that we could feel
better about ourselves by bringing God down.
The reason we hated
His commands was that they seemed to condemn us and we did not
understand why God would be so picky about every little thing.
We
ran from God until He out of sheer mercy regenerated us to see the
truth. Until that time we lived in a dream world. When we first had the
heniousness of our sins revealed to us we were struck with how little we
understood about ourselves.
We were exposed to the renewal of the
Holy Spirit and we began to feel a peace for once. Like a big heavy
burden had been taken from us. It was so real that we woke up the
morning after to see if we had that same feeling of peace. It was so
enlightening to our minds and hearts that we knew that we had recieved
someone more valuable than any thing we had ever understood before.
We
experienced a simple trust in Christ when we understood grace. We were
so transformed at the point of salvation by being so needy that Gods
grace was pleasant to us. Even though we did not have a deep knowlege of
grace and its importance we ,being exposed to ourselves made grace
valuable.
Then we began to struggle with some of the sins that we
had turned from. We could not understand why our initual salvation
experience wore off. We began to fear that we had only tasted of Gods
grace. Yet not having a deep experiencial knowlege of grace we seemed to
be at a cross roads between what we percieved grace had saved us from
and what grace could be to us as we began to deepen in our christian
understanding.
Real grace is poured out on us as the ocean waves
beating against the shore so that we grow and overcome, grace doesnt die
in us. Once we have saving grace we have it forever!
Look there is
no merit in grace or it wouldnt be grace! When we are saved we are
thrown into this struggle between self righteousness and disobedience.
We are in a sense little god makers. We percieve things that are not
true of God and not true of ourselves. That is we make a god for
ourselves. That is what self righteousness and disobedience does.
Our
relationship to the law is no longer a condemning relationship. We here
the law and we turn to Christ and recieve grace freely!
We can look
into the perfect law and make an honest assessment of ourselves because
we have someone who fulfilled the requirements of the law as our
Saviour. We love the law knowing that in Christ we are forgiven so that
we live in grace.
When we obey we recieve more grace, but the
obedience was Gods grace for us to obey. Our obedience is corrupted so
we need the righteousness of Christ to be our acceptability before the
Father. This is grace being worked out in us. When we sin we have an
advocate Christ who finished the work of ending sins power over us so we
can be forgiven. When we experience the Fathers forgiveness because He
accepts His Sons sacrifice we experience the effects of grace in us.
We
begin to rejoice that such mercy and grace was extended to us and this
experience begins to deepen in us as we grow in His word. We are cast
apoun Him through meditation of His word and His Spirit witnesses with
our spirit that we are His child, then we begin to cry Abba Father! We
begin to more and more value His mercy and love and our Abba Fathers get
repeated often in our walk thoughout the day.
If we understand that
our inner life reflects to others what the truth is, they will want to
know not just how good we are, but what kind of supernatural grace could
this be in us. Live so near the Father that you will morn when others
are sad and you will rejoice when others are happy.
Remember that
life in the Spirit is a struggle of your flesh in the inner man and the
Spirit. He is jealous for control. Meditate on the word let the Spirit
illuminate to you the value of Christ over any thing in this world.
There is not a power on this earth that can stand up against His power!
When you feel powerless tell yourself that the power is in Him and it
resides in you by the Holy Spirit. Come to Him lay at His feet, see Him
crucified, victorious, mediating on your behalf. Seek His face ,so that
you can be filled with the knowlege of Himself, seeing it illuminated in
His face. Grace is an illuminated reality in the face of Christ that
gives us the confidence to approach the throne of God with boldness.
Plead the promises! pour out your hearts before Him! He will take your
burden and give you grace!
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