Here
on the sermon on the mount Christ was showing the jewish leaders who
were the Scribes and Pharisees of that day that they had taken the law
and dumbing it down in the Talmud and the new judism view , by putting a
smoke screen of philosophy over the purity of it, so that man could
keep the law and trust in himself. Christ opened up this hypocrisy into
the full view of the society who had been burdened with these man made
laws. Christ condemned the Pharisees and the Scribes and their teaching.
What do you think?
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Forums / Theology Forum / Contempative Meditation
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on: August 22, 2006, 08:17:52 PM
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Let
me explain a little more about the psalms and to attest to the power of
the written word and the power of the pleading. There was a very ugly
series of thoughts that were running through my mind. These were worse
than any of the sin that i did today, and they were the spring board for
my inordinate anger which was toward God and was mixed with the
thoughts of why pray? it does no good, so then in this state of mind the
flesh was crying out for control. This was a real struggle and was
worse than any sin or lust i did today! It attacked my fervency and made
me complacent. It caused me to in a resignation mode of thinking. The
hope of the Spirit was replaced by anger. It was because of the
circumstances and it was trying to set into my disposition. The anger
was attacking my spiritual wholeness. When i started to meditate in a
few psalms i could feel the word disecting what my spirit had accepted
and what the Holy Spirit was saying to me. I went from a state of a lack
of awareness as to what was in my heart to a state of deep awareness as
to the dispostion of my heart. These psalms changed my view of God and
my circumstances and it was done in that it penetrated the surface of my
heart and peirced the deeps of my heart. When i was done i was in a
state of peace and knew that it was a matter of time before God would
bring the ultimate assurance of what communiction had been to my heart.
It was a heavenly , eternal metamorphis.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Contempative Meditation
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on: August 13, 2006, 12:17:46 AM
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The
integrated culture has not only evolved from a blindness. There is
desperation involved in keeping it fueled. From the begining man has had
a sense of inability, a vast gulf of nothingness as a result of sin.
Men are born into trouble and it is how they view that touble is what
becomes the sense they have of their inability. Inability is more than a
mental understanding, it is a sense in mans disposition. The paradigm
of inability is the soil of mans vast gulf of nothingness. Its paradigm
is on the surface of all of mans being and accomplishments. In this
paradigm man experiences a state of emptiness that comes to the surface
in the sense of all the air being expelled out of him. Inability is at
the root of depression and its identity is not easily identified and
understood. This feeling of being unable is as natural as breathing in
an expelling air. It is so related to how breaths sensations are involve
in the sense perception in man that its effects are instantiously felt
in mans physical makeup in relation to his enviroment.
Because
the paradigm of inability carries such weight in the universe of
desperation man experiences the effects of instant danger his view of
this paradigm is wroth with mystery. The sense of this quandry carries
more weight than does his rational process. This is a built in paradigm
in man that creates dependence. The depth of the desperation creates
the atmosphere for the paradigm of inability which fosters dependence.
Its not the his view of the desperation , that is the nature of his
inability , that answers much of the mystery of his emptiness, but it is
his view of the paradigm of dependence that will answer that deep
seated emptiness.
| 8638
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Forums / Theology Forum / Contempative Meditation
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on: August 12, 2006, 01:06:13 PM
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Isa 19:3. \"Then the spirit of the Egyptians will be demoralized within them;
And I will confound their strategy,
So that they will resort to idols and ghosts of the dead
And to mediums and spiritists.
Gen. 11:1. Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words.
6.
The LORD said, \"Behold, they are one people, and they all have the
same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which
they purpose to do will be impossible for them.
7. \"Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech.\"
9.
Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused
the language of the whole earth; and from there the LORD scattered them
abroad over the face of the whole earth.
I have been thinking
about this whole principle of integration. The paradigm is not in itself
evil but what man does with the paradigm makes it evil. Intergrating is
taking the parts of something and making them a whole or uniting them.
There is a philosophy of intergration in this country that has blossomed
over the years and presently it seems that truth is measured by this
paridigm. There is an evil in all of this even tho the intentions are
good. Here we have people uniting to build a tower with this principle
of intergration. Here there are many different jobs to accomplish in
building the tower and they all unite to build this thing. Now there is
one language so communication is the key to intergration it seems to me.
All of these parts are put together to in the name of unity. Well it is
just what we have in all the areas of our culture here. We have
intergrated personalities, intergrated philanthropy, intergrated
churches even are the new movement. It has been a long road to get to
this towering problem.
Here there is a cumulative effect whos
evolution starts with denying the existence of God and then there is
sort of a power of unity in intergration that swollows up many people as
if a ship was sinking and the force of the ships descent into the ocean
dragged people from the surface. Intergration has become sort of a life
form. Well it seems that the origins of this philosophy are of mans
invention. From the fall man has had this nagging power to deny the
existence of God and form a garden paridise of his own, with his own way
of success. It starts with the blindness in mans mind of the reality of
his inability to think properly and so man begins to develope
intergrated processes with the intention of placing himself at the
center of his world and in his blindness he builds his own tower so that
people unite around him. But really there is a clog in the system of
thinking in man and that is that he really starts on the wrong foot and
lives in this arogant deception of cause and effect.
In denying
God he basically denys the process of cause and effect. The integrated
philosophy is a philosophy of pragmatism. Pragmitism is more than just
what works the best, it is in our culture finding how to produce unity
by denying the cause and effect paradigm.
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| 8651
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Forums / Theology Forum / Tongues
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on: August 10, 2006, 05:16:31 PM
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My
brother you can talk around the central focus of revival. Yes you can
deride the heart of revival while trying to redefine the Holy Spirit to
the paradigm of a witch doctor. But when the Holy Spirit comes there is
great spiritual awareness of the sweetness of Christ as He is seen in
all of His glorious attributes. In revival Christ is not just an idea
but in His work on the cross and His glorious ability to overcome any
opposition of the heart is felt by everyone in a profound way. Yes
Christ who was preexistent in the Godhead who humbled Himself and came
to earth as a man who was subject to the Fathers will and fufilled all
righteousness died in our behalf and now rules His church. He is our
only high preist who stands as our advocate before the Father. That
message rings loud and clear in revival. And the Holy Spirit (notice i
spelled His name out.) 
comes in mighty power to bring a person to the end of themselves. They
are so overcome by His presence through the word that they respond with
awe and rejoice that they could possibly be worthy of such grace and
mercy. In revival there is a sense in the air that Christ is ever
present, by a sweetness in the people. They meet more often because they
are drawn together by that presence. They open the word and experience
its eternal power as it is spoken. There is a love to view God as
soveriegn and ruling. There is a sense that the Spirit is granting grace
beyond measure so that everyone is rejoicing in Christ. Oh, the love of
God and the awesome power of His baptism. Even mans struggle with
depression is lifted in revival. All are eased as if there was absolute
unity and there was love beyond comprehension.
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| 8653
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Forums / Theology Forum / Tongues
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on: August 10, 2006, 03:48:33 PM
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The perfection is the completing of the delivery of His written word.
You
are making a lot of inferences into the verse. First there is nothing
saying that the perfect is the completion of His word. The perfect has
not come in the completion of the word. We still are in a state of
imperfection. Its not talking about when the gifts are perfected since
there is nothing perfect in man. In fact the perfect always speaks of
our heavenly abode. At that time these were only letters and the cannon
was not even being considered. Why would Paul tell the first century
church in corinth about the forming of the cannon when this had no
personal relation to these churches. Surely this is not a prophecy. Its a
statement of fact. Remember that these letters were written to
encourage the local churches in Corinth and then have a far reaching
effect throughout church history. So even historically you are making a
big jump.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Tongues
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on: August 10, 2006, 02:26:02 AM
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LRx
If I'm following what your saying. A whole lot of work isn't getting done.
. . . . . .††â€
Dear Dilb,
.
. As usual, you got it. What is more, the church, by its theology and
insistence upon CONTROL, has effectively thwarted and otherwise
suppressed the working of The Holy Spirit in various and sundry ways
down through the centuries. Oddly enough, it is the Roman Catholic
Church today that is encouraging and nurturing the outpouring of THS,
which has sprung up at various times through those same centuries
(studiously ignored by most church historians), but most recently at the
beginning of the 20th century, spread rather thinly into the 'mainline'
churches starting in the '50's and was diligently persecuted therein,
and then an unbelievable outpouring on the Roman Catholics starting in
the late '60's.
. . Something is brewing now. The 'mainline' churches
are being decimated. Presbyterians were losing members at the rate of
30,000 per annum, a few years ago, this jumped to 40,000 and last year
it went to 50,000. "Charismatic (Charismatics are Pentecostals who don't
want to be called Pentecostals) churches are proliferating at an
astounding rate -- unacknowledged by most Evangelicals -- in this
country and multiplying a thousandfold in South America, Africa and
India.
. . I used to tell the Jehovah Witnesses that they were only
doing a quarter of what they were supposed to be doing, viz. witnessing,
but leaving out healing the sick, casting out demons, raising the dead.
This was very distressing to them, but the fact of the matter is that
the Evangelical churches actively oppose these works of THS. Naturally,I
maintain a discreet silence about these matters in Evangelical circles.
Well-ll, maybe NOT too discreet.
. . I realize this is not where you
are coming from, and I appreciate your ability to discern that all is
not copasthetic in the contrast between talking and reality out where
the feces hit the windmover. So it should be interesting to you when the
dam breaks.
. . Jesus is coming through, and them who don't want to follow Him (in the church) had better get out of the way.
So much for that. Love ya, Dilb. Pompou Sass
I have got to answer this so I will try to be nice.
Historically
speaking in this country the calvinist were the ones who introduced
revival. This is a documented fact. It was through the great awakening
that was sparked by Johnathan Edwards and was also fanned by George
Whitfield. These men along with the great baptist preacher Spurgeon had
great outpourings of the Holy Spirit.
The outpouring of the Holy
Spirit is a soveiregn act of God in which He decides when He wants to
revive His church. Revival was actually brought on by the calvinistic
message.
What we see today is the church trying to copy that
historical reality. Even while we were having a great awakening in this
country we were in a theological battle with revivalism. Revivalism was a
creation of the semi plagenist. These were developed from Revival and
had every thing to do with doctrine. These are nothing but tent meetings
, or man centered revivals. Revivalism is a man centered activity. In
revivalism man decides when he is going to plan revival. And it is in
the form of these tent meetings. If you want to get an accurate account
of historical revivals read Revival and Revivalism by Ian Murray. In
this book he documents the work of the Holy Spirit by showing that the
church roles were double in a very short period of time without any real
evangelism in todays sense.
Doctrinal differences have every
thing to do with the genuiness of the Holy Spirits work. When calvinsim
was strong in this country there were real revivals, not planned by man
but brought on by the Holy SPirit. These revivals even effected whole
towns. Taverns would shut down. People would be under such conviction of
the Holy Spirit that they would seek out the church for relief. Real
revival is not necessarily miracles but a large number of people who are
regenerated at one time though the work of the Spirit. There are
visible effects as a result of the Holy Spirit coming. There is an
excitement in the air in revival. Read Edwards on revival on this forum.
If you hold to arminism then you are going to see a man
centered revival. Even amoung the charsmatics you have a mishmash of
theology. Remember that the mind is in control in a work of God. Our
faculties are not under the power of the Spirit beyond our own power.
The Spirit works though our faculties but does not take them over. That
is mysticism. Real revival is not close to mysticism. Real revival is
not worked up in a man as if it comes from the inside of a man. Real
revival is God coming through the Holy Spirit to convict the world of
sin righteousness and the judgement to come and then regenerates that
person. There is such an excitement in the air because there is a large
number of people who are effected. Real revival has preaching at the
cemter of its working. The Holy Spirit comes in the preaching on sin and
people are brought to the end of themselves. They see the reality of
the sweetness of being in a position of inability to accomplish any work
in themselves. The cast all on Christ. Real revival is experienced when
the message of regeneration becomes pure. When people are convinced
that there is not enough faith in them to become righteous. They see so
much of the regeneration paradigm and the newness of that experience
that they rejoice and shout that only God can do this. There is no pride
in real revival. When people are brought to the end of themselves they
see the value of preaching. They know what Holy Spirit preaching is,
they recognize and love the absolute soveriegn Spirit. In revivalism the
Holy Spirit is put in a box as He is in semi plagenism. He is limited
by mans faith. Doctrine has everything to do with it. What we have today
is a arminist activity called revivalism.
I do agree with you
about the Presbys. There is a new view of church order in Presby.
seminaries across this country. They view revival as just emotionalism
and Edwards as a wayward pastor who broke away from the church order in
the British fashion. They want to go back to the days of litergy forms
of worship in which the Holy Spirit is quenched. Thank God for Spurgeon
who carried the tourch for revival in the british fashion. When church
roles are increase and towns are shut down on sunday you cant argue with
the evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit. LRx is there a reason you
do not spell out Holy Spirit? I cant recall that you have.
| 8659
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Forums / Theology Forum / Contempative Meditation
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on: August 09, 2006, 06:17:51 AM
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He
is the Great Sheperd, who is always concerned about every circumstance
in my life. He is ever watching me and in His watching me He is watching
over me. He is bringing things into my life that bring relief to my
soul and cause me to walk closer to Him. He keeps me from sinning and
when i sin He forgives me. He keeps me from going on my own way and
gives me confidence in Him to lead me along the rite path. He makes my
paths straight so that i will not stumble and when i stumble He
graciously picks me up and gives me grace so that my stumble is
remembered no more as He reminds me of His grace by pouring out His
Spirit in gracious reminders of my lack of ability and His ability. He
leads me only into beauty and quietness. He shows me the reality of His
eternal presence. He lets me hear waterfalls, gives me peace like so
that it is as if i were laying under a tree in the spring sipping a
glass of lemonade in complete quietness. He subdues all of my enemies so
that in that confidence and trust i can have my soul in stillness. He
speaks such strength to the soul that our eyes are full of confidence.
We know that He is working all things for our good. He broads over us by
His Spirit granting us waves of grace love and peace. He leads us to
Christ righteousness so that we know how gracious He is. He makes us
righteous. When we sin He comes to our aid because we are seen in Christ
and we are forgive all of our sins. He grants us forgiveness and speaks
peace to our souls so that our sin does not lead to hell but to a
renewal of the former state pryer to the fall. We can confidently go to
Him and proclaim that we are walking in His ways because He remembers
our sin no more. He has give us all of the promises so that we can plead
them to Him and He will bless us beyond any thing we could ask or
think. He leads us in the worst times when we sin the most to embrace
His instant forgiveness and helps us see just how powerfull Christ
righteousness is. When we sin the most we can go to Him and ask for the
greatest gifts since He loves us so much.
We are so tied to
Christ that unless we identify with Him and see His life as our life we
will be most miserable. Just being with the Great Sherperd is enough to
have a revived soul. When we go to Him in prayer we are so revived that
we feel like rejoicing all day long. We feel the soft toons of heavenly
music. We hear millions and millions of people singing hymns as if they
were standing around the throne of God all in unison and we feel to the
deepest part of our innermost being waves of the Spirits sweetness come
over our souls. We are so revived that we want nothing but Him. We are
so enraptured in Him that all the joys on this earth we recieve from
things and people can not compare with the Spirits infusions of revival.
We sense His presence swallow up all the earthly noise so that we long
for heaven, weep on the inside for this state of joy and invision Him
enrapturing us beyond any thing we could think. That newness of infused
restoration is always available to us when we draw near to Him. He is a
Sheperd who calls us to prayer and then gives us glimpses of what it is
like to be revived ,as if we were there with Him in heaven.
Even
when we are confronted with trials He lifts us up above them in His
hands and displays His power to those around us by sustaining us,
destroying our enemies, and shows the world that everything we have is
given to us by Him, He hold us in His arms as He speaks powerful words
in the worlds ears , saying to them "this is my child. He is my
cherished one , I give Him my best, and He does nothing to earn it. My
child is without power to over come you but because I love Him and i
being His Sheperd you will not lay a hand on Him. My child is precious
to me. You may see him stumble, and sin but I have forgiven Him and I
have not forgiven you so it does no good for you to blame my child. He
is in my house." I will show you by my childs helplessness just how
gracious I am.
Not
only has our Sheperd shown the world just how exalted His sheep are,
but He has given His sheep a profound evidence of that care. He not only
has shown the world by presenting His sheep to them in loving His own
but He has given His sheep a great assurance that they can rely on Him
in the presence of the world. Yes He has pour out His Spirit beyond
measure, He has given us the Spirt so that out of us flows rivers of
living water. We have been given joy unspeakable and full of glory. We
are lifted up in power beyond our ability to grasp that power. This
baptism of the Spirit is not only over our souls but it is in the
training of our bodies. The Spirit infuses life into our bodies and
causes us to have acts of trust, strength , ability beyond the normal.
He is so in control of every part of our being that any exercision of
physical strength is given or subtracted by His Spirit. The Spirit
trains our hands for battle and helps us subdue our enemies.
His
Spirit gives us specific instructions about a particular circumstance
by using the wisdom of the word and He gives us a word of wisdom. His
Spirit gives us a supernatural sense so that we are more aware of what
is to transpire in the immediate future by this sense. His Spirit leads
us into every circumstance in life to show us just how powerful His is
to overcome any trouble. His Spirit goes out in front of us and prepares
the way.
His Spirit causes us to want and desire the blood
thirsty justice of our enemies and at the same time the love of God to
be manifested in every space in the universe. His Spirit causes us to
desire the end of all things so that Christ will be all in all. His
Spirit moves us to act, grants sleep to us, causes us to help others
beyond our own abilities, giving us confidence to have more faith in
Gods provision rather than our understanding.
His Spirit comes to us
in prayer and broads over as we breath out our petitions lusting in us
for more of pure words of wisdom so that He can fall on us with
infusions of sweet assurance by having us know Christ in all of His
person. He teaches us to pray by giving us His prayers in the scripture.
He teaches us the wisdom of a petition. He wants us to petition God in
such a way that there will be a direct effect from pleading the promises
and then He comes and lust for more of our desire. He lust for the
sweetness in our desire for more of Christ.
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| 8660
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Forums / Theology Forum / Contempative Meditation
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on: August 09, 2006, 05:12:48 AM
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He
is the Great Sheperd, who is always concerned about every circumstance
in my life. He is ever watching me and in His watching me He is watching
over me. He is bringing things into my life that bring relief to my
soul and cause me to walk closer to Him. He keeps me from sinning and
when i sin He forgives me. He keeps me from going on my own way and
gives me confidence in Him to lead me along the rite path. He makes my
paths straight so that i will not stumble and when i stumble He
graciously picks me up and gives me grace so that my stumble is
remembered no more as He reminds me of His grace by pouring out His
Spirit in gracious reminders of my lack of ability and His ability. He
leads me only into beauty and quietness. He shows me the reality of His
eternal presence. He lets me hear waterfalls, gives me peace like so
that it is as if i were laying under a tree in the spring sipping a
glass of lemonade in complete quietness. He subdues all of my enemies so
that in that confidence and trust i can have my soul in stillness. He
speaks such strength to the soul that our eyes are full of confidence.
We know that He is working all things for our good. He broads over us by
His Spirit granting us waves of grace love and peace. He leads us to
Christ righteousness so that we know how gracious He is. He makes us
righteous. When we sin He comes to our aid because we are seen in Christ
and we are forgive all of our sins. He grants us forgiveness and speaks
peace to our souls so that our sin does not lead to hell but to a
renewal of the former state pryer to the fall. We can confidently go to
Him and proclaim that we are walking in His ways because He remembers
our sin no more. He has give us all of the promises so that we can plead
them to Him and He will bless us beyond any thing we could ask or
think. He leads us in the worst times when we sin the most to embrace
His instant forgiveness and helps us see just how powerfull Christ
righteousness is. When we sin the most we can go to Him and ask for the
greatest gifts since He loves us so much.
We are so tied to
Christ that unless we identify with Him and see His life as our life we
will be most miserable. Just being with the Great Sherperd is enough to
have a revived soul. When we go to Him in prayer we are so revived that
we feel like rejoicing all day long. We feel the soft toons of heavenly
music. We hear millions and millions of people singing hymns as if they
were standing around the throne of God all in unison and we feel to the
deepest part of our innermost being waves of the Spirits sweetness come
over our souls. We are so revived that we want nothing but Him. We are
so enraptured in Him that all the joys on this earth we recieve from
things and people can not compare with the Spirits infusions of revival.
We sense His presence swallow up all the earthly noise so that we long
for heaven, weep on the inside for this state of joy and invision Him
enrapturing us beyond any thing we could think. That newness of infused
restoration is always available to us when we draw near to Him. He is a
Sheperd who calls us to prayer and then gives us glimpses of what it is
like to be revived ,as if we were there with Him in heaven.
Even
when we are confronted with trials He lifts us up above them in His
hands and displays His power to those around us by sustaining us,
destroying our enemies, and shows the world that everything we have is
given to us by Him, He hold us in His arms as He speaks powerful words
in the worlds ears , saying to them \"this is my child. He is my
cherished one , I give Him my best, and He does nothing to earn it. My
child is without power to over come you but because I love Him and i
being His Sheperd you will not lay a hand on Him. My child is precious
to me. You may see him stumble, and sin but I have forgiven Him and I
have not forgiven you so it does no good for you to blame my child. He
is in my house.\" I will show you by my childs helplessness just how
gracious I am.
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We do not need a word study do get to that prop. You are like the
doctor who perscribed the medicine in what he thought the problem was
that was inside the guys body without exploring the whole problem with
his instruments. The bible is not a book where you focus on one aspect
of a partiticual heremunitic but you use all of the tools and consider
that whole counsel to get to a proposition. The fact is that God is the
cause of all things and that He rules from heaven whether heaven is side
ways, below at some point of the circular movement or above it is going
from our planet outward into eternity of which God inhabits every space
in this unimaginable realm. So yes do not lower God by bringing him
down to our earth finite existence, for in Him we live and move and have
our being. He does not dwell in houses made by hands. Man is just a
spec in an eternal world, and corrupted has a problem with his view as
to who God is and what he is.This is the point of all of this cause and
purpose. 
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