9931 Forums / Main Forum / Believing Is Seeing. Pretending Is Not Believing. on: November 25, 2005, 12:25:29 PM Believing is the only way to have a since of security in life. To believe is to acknowlege a dependence on someone else in a moment by moment experience. That is taking that security of salvation that is in Him. The centrality of believing is a need to have the person come to your rescue. You see in Him the only way to be delievered because He is righteous and you are not. That righteousness is so important in who He is that He needed to impute it to you so that you could be righteous in yourself. That is the reason He delievers you in all of your circumstances. That is the reason that He is accessable to your comfort and your security. For a saint believing in Him is accepting that His righteousness was imputed to me and my sin has been taken care of at the cross. That is the central power in believing that is trusting in a Person and what He has done on my behalf. That is where the power of security exist. When i trust in Him in this way then my confidence to communicate to Him is securily confined as Him being my secret refuge in a public adversarial life. Believing is not just a one time transaction of His righteousness but is a continual going to that place of security, that place of trust and being delievered from these human delimas that are self inflicted or that come apoun us. Believing is a repeated montra on the lips of the righteous, just as Christ confessed His Fathers authority all through the gospels. It is the essential element in approaching a benevolent Father to experience the power of illumination in our meditation. It is comming with dependent words on our lips such as ,it take refuge in You, i trust in You, rescue me, deliever me,turn your ear to me, be my rock, hear my cry, come quickly. All these phrases are powerful lines in a believing in the heart. That continued believing in Him leads you to trust in Him as the only stirdy foundation on which you can stand. When you experience believing you will experience power and peace that is evangelical righteousness that has been imputed to you by sheer mercy and grace and even though the cry of you heart and conscience is that you do not deserve His gift you will cast that doubt to the wind because of your experince in that security. Only Satan would like you to hold onto that doubt so that He can convince you to dash yourself against that gracious Rock. The reality is that the unsaved who have not experienced the struggle of believing go head long into that Rock and are crushed. Not you though because of your confession and your constant struggle to believe. Yes that is evangelical believing mixed with corruption but solid because of His. Knowing that that place of trust is there is the other central power in persevering in believing. That place is not going to be pulled from you. He will be there to go to without reseverations ,without conditions, with out finite purposes as His intentions such as responding to some bessetting sin and aimed at you to punish you. In believing we see Him as always faithful, full of mercy, unfailiing love, compassionate, blessing. That is who we are dependent on in all of life. There are no intentions in Him to destroy us or harm us. What confidence we have in believing is a confidence that is 100 percent on Him in which He transfers His confidence in that imputed righteousness to us and believing is that power of confidence of another Person indwelling us in reality, that being God the Holy Spirit as our advocate as a immanent Person in our experience on earth. Unless we accept imputed righteousness we will not experience the Holy Spirits presence in a strong way. We will not go to God under any circumstances because we will draw back by corrupting our confidence in looking to our own righteousness as the means of believing. We must understand soveriegn grace and its power to accomplish what we cannot accomplish in ourselves. We must experience a transforming power in believing just as we experienced it when we first believed. You remember that radical transformation in your first confession to Him dont you? What you forgot was the simplicity in trust Him for that grace. Confess Him again, come to Him the same way you did at first. You have that hunger in you, it just is more of a struggle to see it because you are used to Him. 9942 Forums / Main Forum / Perfection? on: November 23, 2005, 07:44:11 PM Quote Quote The whole theology of Paul in the Romans 6:7,8 is that we are identified with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection and so we have been changed with a whole new set of desires. ... But we still have the remnants of the body of sin in our members. It affects both our physical and spiritual as if it were a person living inside of us. So where is the objection to choice between submitting your "self" physically and spiritually to the new desires of Spirit or the desires of the "old man"? And what does "mortification of sin" mean to you? What is involved here is what the you is in salvation. Its what goes into the equasion of choice. There is a new you in salvation in which you no longer belong to you but to someone else.So if i am changed and given new desires then i am intrinsically different than what i was before as me. In other words there is a different me there. Now that is the essence of choosing because what used to please me no longer pleases me if i reckon myself alive to the new me. In other words i begin to believe that i am different and begin to understand just what that difference is.Yes i choose and i am responsible. But in reality my life no longer belongs to me and in that sense i have died to my sin and now i am in Christ. I am saying that it is more than just saying that there are good and evil and we choose between the two. It is not a life of living moral choices it is a new creation of the self. Yes all of my faculties are mine and i control all of them, but they have been renewed and so that change is what is intricate in my choices. Heres the metaphysics. Will is not like a scale that has a balance with objects of equal weight on each end. To will is to desire one object over another. I choose based apoun what pleases me the most. That pleasing has the understanding involved in my view of the object of choice but the choice is not determined by the circumstances that go into my understanding but rather my desires and the condition of my soul. There is a freedom in the choices that the new me experiences that the old me did not. I am not in bondage to my will or my conscience or the law. I am free in Christ, by reckoning it so. My will is now a pleasure desire. 9947 Forums / Main Forum / Perfection? on: November 23, 2005, 05:57:06 PM Quote cc: I thought the quote from Gene was interesting in that he seemed to capture the spirit of Romans 6:13 - Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. - and the practical imperative that comes with it. (A statement that may cost me that "awesome" Patrick gave me.) The whole theology of Paul in the romans 678 is that we are identified with Christ in His death, berial and ressurrection and so we have been changed with a whole new set of desires. He is not saying that we as it were have a bad dog and a good dog and we choose between them. Rather he is saying that we have a totally new reality that reins in us and we need to understand that life. We are sanctified completely and the power of sin has been cut off it no longer reins in us. But we still have the remnants of the body of sin in our members. It affects both our physical and spiritual as if it were a person living inside of us. Righteousness reigns but sin is still nipping at us. Just like this above verse, we are intrinsically righteous but we still must mortify sin because its remains are still in us. 9951 Forums / Main Forum / Perfection? on: November 23, 2005, 02:30:55 PM Ok here is the heart of the issue as i see it in the american church. Look we have been fed object theology for many years and it is taking its toll on the state of the worshiper. The heart is not balance of mans responsibility and Gods soveriegnty. Its the difference between the state of the soul and the importance of the object. Our problems are not hyper calvinism but are arminisim related. Calvinist are not preaching calvinsim but a learned object oriented calvinism. Whats your object today? Selling books? the function of the church? the social gospel? Beating people over the head with moral persuasion? Word of mouth faith? Social enginerring? Professorship? College education? When ever the gospel goes out it goes out under these to paradigms. Object worship, or spiritual worship. We have focus on church buildings, programs, human relational worship, multi-cultural religious crossovers, busisness run churches and a plethera of other objects. Why because there is not much spirit focused worship and we focus on the object orintation. We really need to start from the beginning of supernatural gospel and get back to free grace and God soveriegnty preaching until everyone is offended. Then and only then will the message be more important than the system of object worship that plagues the minds of that Ejypt generation of promise land seekers. Look Calvinism focuses on the souls of men. All the directions toward worship teaching is to get to the condition of the soul of man. Its not even just conviction and moral but a real concern for each of man in body and spirit. We are so ingrained with the object worship mentality that we have over looked the clear historical difference in this area. Our message needs to focus on the soul of man both in a moral call and a meeting his needs in the historical sense. Unless we get back to this detailed teaching of calvin we will just raise a generation of confused arminist. Look it is very simple, there is no pragmitism in choice. There is no inbetween agency to each choice. We either rely on the supernatural work of Christ or we rely on our own abilities. The object has no power. When we start preaching Calvinism there will be an automatic change in society. The message has a built in generator to affect the heart and regenerate it. Lets start with justification by faith, and the need for Christ rule, and the real concern for the soul of man and the grace of God and the supernatural need for regeneration. Lets get single hearted with the confession! ReplyReply Reply with quoteQuote Notify of repliesNotify 9952 Forums / Main Forum / Perfection? on: November 23, 2005, 01:02:47 PM Free choice is not choosing between two equals that is good and evil. Free choice is choosing one thing over another by what pleases me. It is not the object of that choice that is the determinate factor of pleasure but rather the state of the soul in choosing the most pleasing thing. I will discuss this in 20 mins. 9953 Forums / Main Forum / Was Paul A Sinner? on: November 23, 2005, 12:36:31 PM They keep saying that we are saints not sinners. Now there are two questions here that must be answered about saints. One is why am i a saint? What keeps me as a saint? I was chosen to be a saint, not by any thing in myself but because of His soveriegn grace. In fact in myself i am a depraved person. I am a saint because i have a foriegn righteousness, and all the work in making me a saint was done by Him on the cross and was imputed to me not infused to be dole out to me more righteousness little by little. I have the full imputed righteousness of Christ that makes me a saint. Two i could not remain a saint without being in Christ. Remaining in Christ is not of my own doing either. \"Without me you can do nothing\" so i am a saint by the shere mercy of God and i remain a saint by that mercy, in myself i am a sinner and want to disobey and i do disobey all the time. I commit willful sin by not doing what i am supposed to do which is to love God with all my heart mind and soul, how many of you have done this? Or is fail not do those evil things that i am command not to do. 9956 Forums / Main Forum / "knowing" Salvation on: November 23, 2005, 11:38:40 AM If you look in romans you will find that abraham reckoned himself ungodly not just in his initual justification that is in the initual imputed righteousness of Christ which was the essence of his true faith, but that reckoning continued thoughout his life of faith. The reason is that it was not of works that he obtained faith nor was it of works that he kept his faith. Saving faith results in the work or righteousness but it has no works attatched to it. Justification is all of grace but sanctification is the result of justification. Justification is all of grace and is our reliance of being righteous, which is apart from works and is imputed. We could not get salvation in ourselves nor could we keep salvation in ourselves. We are sinful an corrupted through and through this side of heaven. We expect to sin because we are sinners by nature. Sin is not just acts of evil, it resides in us as sure as death over takes us. 9979 Forums / Prayer Requests / Along Wiith Everyone Else on: July 09, 2005, 04:48:45 PM I think there are reasons for all of us to question whether we did the rite thing. I think that is a self fulfilling prophecy to think that way. Every thing that happens is decreed by God. You didnt step out of His control for this decision. Your wife is not powerful enough to aleniate you from your family. Your problems in that area are your problems. If you had the queen of Ejypt you would find yourself in the same situation with them. First of all you are commanded to love her like Christ loves the church. She is commanded to love you. Every marriage starts when we say I do before that you only know what you percieve is true by what kind of person she was. The reality is at the altar. Be glad you are married and stop questioning God on his design in your life. Your wife will respond to your confidence in your love for her she will mirror your desire. ReplyReply Reply with quoteQuote Notify of repliesNotify 9980 Forums / Theology Forum / Types And Shadows on: July 09, 2005, 04:17:40 PM The scripture is for teaching, it contains doctrines that are drawn from the literal interpretation. These doctrines are essential to living a Godly life. This is the science of interpretation and that is to draw out the doctrines from the text. Typology is a science that can be counter productive in this process. This is evident in todays way of thinking. There have been doctrines that are outside of the whole counsel of God from this way of looking at the scripture. Instead of clearing up a doctrine in the text typology clouds the doctrine and people are left with a false view of what the text is saying. The old way of thinking that is confessional put boundries around these doctrines. Typology has made these texts sort of living as the constitution if you know what i mean. ReplyReply Reply with quoteQuote Notify of repliesNotify 9981 Forums / Theology Forum / Types And Shadows on: July 09, 2005, 04:02:18 PM My problem with typology is that the scripture is only saying one thing. The stories are literal in the OT. They should be read as literal first because there are moral lessons that can be overlooked by typology. Granted there are many different applications in in one text. My point is that if you make a literal story a type you add to the text a teaching that is your own even though there may be some merit in what you are saying. This can make the logic and literal interpretation of the text equal with a private interpretation. Think of what a mans imagination can come up with in the name of typology. Its a dangerous game. 10042 Forums / Theology Forum / "more Effective" Prayer on: June 01, 2005, 07:43:19 PM His love and Spirit on my church so there will be healing and renewal. You want to be healed of some emotional termoil? Do you get tired of seeing Satans work strong in your world. You have a defender more powerful than any court. I will give you a Comforter-defender and He will guide you into all truth. You have the court of heaven at your beck and call and you have the promise of the Father that He will work through your prayers. He is given us open access to the throne of God and He says you have because you ask not. Try this every time you want something or plan something think about how your faith will make these descisions that will give you freedom in Christ to experience the Fathers love and come to the reality that is all you need. Pray in the Spirit until that freedom releases you into perfect peace that my friend is better than any thing the word has to offer! ReplyReply Reply with quoteQuote Notify of repliesNotify 10043 Forums / Theology Forum / "more Effective" Prayer on: June 01, 2005, 07:30:01 PM Prayer is the life line of the christian. Unless i pray i cannot experience the presence of the Holy Spirit .Sometimes we forget that He is in us and He is a person. We have the presence of God and He chooses to work through prayer. Do you feel a change in your heart when you pray. Is your faith strengthened and do the things of earth and the pull of outward things loose there hold. Prayer draws us away from trusting in ourselves. When we pray the Holy Spirit speaks in the deepest recesses of our hearts that we belong to the Father and His love for us is always abiding. We get refreshed and have a new outlook on our trials. We begin to feel safe and wonder why we worried so much about this pressing problem. What drives us to prayer? Trials, answered prayer, revival, experienceing highs of Gods presence and realizing that we are made to glorify Him and enjoy Him. When you have met God in prayer you will pour out your heart like a little child! You will realize that He is awsome and has all the power to effect any change that you will experience. Faith is so important in prayer. We get weak in faith and our prayers are so small and unexciting. When your faith is strengthened through answered prayer you will deepen in your prayers. You will live like there are two people in the room instead of one. The things of heaven will be near to you. That will strengthen you to give of yourself to others because you desires will have eternity rewards in mind. I mourn over how sometimes i make my plans and give no thought to experiencing the Fathers presence in making them. How much of my life has been spent in carnal persutes that pull me away from prayer and communion with the Spirit. What energy have i spent crying out to God for my loved ones to be saved for God to pour out 10047 Forums / Theology Forum / Distinctly Defining The Gospels on: June 01, 2005, 05:53:34 PM Hi Dlktrose, I skimmed through you post and i think that there are some things that i need explanation. I consider that the word \"assembly\" was not just a new testament word and denotes Gods dealing with a remnant of people in this case Isreal. That is an old testament church. The concept of church was not of pentecost origin but was extended to the Gentiles at Pentecost as included in the \"assembly\" or grafted in and now there is no difference in the body of Christ. The apostles make reference to this comparision many times in the N. T. The doctrine of God and His promised presence in the assembly is progressively revealed starting from creation. (Hebrews) I do not see a difference between the Old covenant and New but rather a completion in Christ. Salvation, the law, the promises were all experienced by the OT saints in a deep way because it has always been by faith. It has always been by grace thats why they had the sacrifices. They had real salvation experience and real worship in the assemblies. 10126 Forums / Theology Forum / Got Legalism? Or Freedom? on: April 28, 2005, 11:26:05 AM Hi , Here is the collision course we are at in this country. As i was confronted last week with legalism of which for a long time i have not had to deal with this at a personal level. It brought back old memories of past experiences in my pre-covenant community days. After this confrontation i experience the pulling of sin as i have not experienced in a long time. I have learned by experience to identify these effects in me. I think that this delima is so ingrained in americans that they dont recognize that they are in spiritual prision. What happens when sin abounds? The law abounds in all its threatenings! I was so brow beaten this week that i was looking for the 7 steps to freedom. Gods love relationship with me seemed far away. I can only say that this experience is dreadful to any one who has to go through this on a regular basis. Steve is right and as religion has abounded just as it did in Martin Luthers day. We need those 95 theeses to be nailed up on the doors of the church again. We dont need more rules we need love from the Father and affection in our relationships. If it takes laying your Isaacs on the altar for freedom would you do it? ReplyReply Reply with quoteQuote Notify of repliesNotify 10127 Forums / Theology Forum / Got Legalism? Or Freedom? on: April 28, 2005, 11:25:23 AM Hi , Here is the collision course we are at in this country. As i was confronted last week with legalism of which for a long time i have not had to deal with this at a personal level. It brought back old memories of past experiences in my pre-covenant community days. After this confrontation i experience the pulling of sin as i have not experienced in a long time. I have learned by experience to identify these effects in me. I think that this delima is so ingrained in americans that they dont recognize that they are in spiritual prision. What happens when sin abounds? The law abounds in all its threatenings! I was so brow beaten this week that i was looking for the 7 steps to freedom. Gods love relationship with me seemed far away. I can only say that this experience is dreadful to any one who has to go through this on a regular basis. Steve is right and as religion has abounded just as it did in Martin Luthers day. We need those 95 theeses to be nailed up on the doors of the church again. We dont need more rules we need love from the Father and affection in our relationships. If it takes laying your Isaacs on the altar for freedom would you do it? ReplyReply Reply with quoteQuote Notify of repliesNotify 10128 Forums / Theology Forum / Stay Or Go? on: April 25, 2005, 05:42:20 PM I think that you can visit around and see if you like another church. I think that it is really hard to find a church with standards that create a special unity. My church pick would be a small church because the first thing that i would look at would not be the music but the teaching and preaching.You wont find a lot of people going to these churches. I am a calvinist so that message is what i would look for. I know exactly what is acceptable to me and that would be a confessional church [Westminster Confession] . I would want to here the word preached and compare it to the confession. The human side is important that is do i get along with the people? Are they of one mind with me as a human being and doctrinally. The music should be more doctrinal than sentimental. Every sunday you would sing Hymns, have special music that is doctrinally sound, reading of scripture, prayer and preaching. I spent 2 yrs praying about and visiting churchs before i committed. These people would be the muture in the faith kind of people so there would be a lot of unity. Most people want to be entertained and so if you liked that then you would be surrounded by those kind of people. ReplyReply Reply with quoteQuote Notify of repliesNotify 10129 Forums / Main Forum / Temptation Sometimes Wins on: April 23, 2005, 08:27:28 AM Maybe its not about your sin 13yrs ago mabey thats in your mind. There are a lot of people who did worse things than you did that are enjoying relationships. I dont know you but i think that it may be something that you are doing now that is contributing to your delima. Your standards may be too high or you may not put yourself in situations that are condussive to meeting that one. Yet God is in control and these things will work themselve out you can trust Him. I would consider the way i think at the present, becausee at some pt you must forget those things that are behind and press on toward the mark. 10157 Forums / Theology Forum / "god Doesn't Care About Our Happiness" on: April 22, 2005, 10:31:32 AM There are two realities going on in side of me. On the one hand i am saved and rejoicing in my christian life. When i meditate on the word i have something to look foward to in heaven that on this earth i never attain. Yet when i look at my life i feel weak and my relationships in family etc. never really satisfy me. At times it is just depressing to tell you the truth. I have seen that when we exalt God and worship Him according to His design and through His word we are lifted up in our experience and at some point we come down to earths realities. This is like the apostle says we long to get rid of this earthly sin and the limitations that bring us down. [\"groaning\" ] Sometimes the battle gets so feirce that we dont know which way is up or down. God works these trials into our lives to change us on the inside and because He is soveriegn He knows just what we need when we need it. So these ultumate questions about trust and His character are not good questions. Rather we need to do as the Psalmist and that is ask those things of Him that argue for His promises. This is for His glory, and our natural relational tendencies when things are troubling to us. Great confidience is found when we go with boldness to the throne of Grace and argue our case as the psalmist does. We are then untrouble by the burden we have just unloaded on to the Lord. Try to learn how to plead the promises. This is a life long adventure.