6829	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.	on: January 04, 2008, 09:25:46 PM
I agree that the flesh can be a monster that roars. Its a dangerous monster with a controlling desire to ruin ever part of our free spiritual experience. The monster cant be ignore, caged , or redefined. You can try to cage it with prohibitions as do not taste, touch, or feel but it will just rage more, as if you were feeding it raw meat. Or you can try to ignore it and it will sneak up on you and destroy you, because the worse thing you can do is to be blind to its movements. Or you can try to redefine it by saying that it is an addiction, a disease, or a negative way of thinking, but it will prove that it is alive in you and will come as an angel of light.  Theres only one way to deal with the monster. David says Thy word have i hid in my heart that i might not sin against God.  You got to attack it with the word, but you will never kill it, but you will make it so small that there is only a faint sound, and it will be so weak that it will not roar louder than the sounding of the beautiful trumpet sounds of Gods mountain worship experience.  The flesh is like a crying baby that never stops crying. It will whimper, cry, and make you go crazy sometimes as if you were wasting away under the burden of a cantankerous child. You will get to the point where you are yelling to try to get it to stop crying at you.  If we use the proper means to kill the monster we will gain a certain amount of  freedom from temptation and from anxious responses. We must use the word like a hammer, hitting it at the mark of its strongest spiritual rising and dealing a death blow to its dominance. So we begin to have a view from the word with magnifying glasses. When we look at the smallest particle of an object then the object becomes very big. So we are always looking at the flesh in how we live with our spiritual desires for God. Because wherever the flesh is dominate the self is magnified and the true desire for His glory is hidden in that corruption. It keeps us from experiencing His pleasure. So we reason that all of our desires for His glory are corrupted by the flesh, and we begin to reason that we are more deceived about our reaction to the beauty of Gods person in meditation than the purity of its exposing us. So we say that we are full of sin and we are over burdened with the guilt  so that the desperate cry of a mournful sinner is to be rid of the smallest deception of the flesh, we want to have a desire that is without corruption, even tho we never can fully get to that point. But if the flesh is cut in the desire then we will experience the freedom of having a sense of Gods magnificences and our heart will be enlarged to seek Him more through a greater cry to be rid of its power.  And then we focus on Gods works in all its power, and we plead the promises after we are enlarged by the power of seeing the beauty of His works and miracles in the past. And then we bring it to a personal plead of Him even knowing our very thoughts before we think them, and training our very hands for a task. And we begin to feel the sense of Gods control over all things as if the more we are enlarged to feel that absolute power to direct all things we feel at the same time His arms being rapped around us with His unfailing love, His complete faithfulness, and His kindness and graciousness towards us. Then we will be able to plead for Him to teach us more. And then we are going to know Him as our teacher so that  the flesh gets put in the corner as we sit in HIs class room. And the more we plead for Him to enlarge our hearts in this paradigm the greater the desire for HIs control and the less desire will we have for the flesh.  This is to hide His word in our hearts.
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6830  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Does anyone here ever doubt on: January 04, 2008, 01:33:52 PM Quote from: osiris041282 on January 03, 2008, 12:44:36 PM "I have read in Plato and Cicero sayings that are wise and very beautiful; but I have never read in either of them: Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden.'' "Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. " "Who can map out the various forces at play in one soul? Man is a great depth, O Lord. The hairs of his head are easier by far to count than his feeling, the movements of his heart"-Saint Augustine After reading a lot from ST A there is a difference between the expression of letting go and letting God as a way of defining the paradigm of what goes on inside of a person as it relates to feelings and the healing that goes on in a holistic way . Compared to the reformed position as it relates to the activity of the soul and the powers that are defined in within the paradigm of renewal. And these two views are a different animal all together. One believes that feelings are dealt with through process, while ST A's position (as i see it) defines renewal as a desire that must be from a supernatural source that springs from grace so that in seeking God the desire begins to deepen along with the real support of active christians who do not look at responsible behavior from the stand point of process but rather in the view of being one in Christ by giving from the supernatural gift paradigm. This holistic view of healing comes as a result of Gods active dominance in providing for real totally depraved people who believe that in giving they really brought nothing to the table so that they deserve nothing. And in this environment there is true sharing of the gifts. Its not motivated in the desire for process , which is a philosophical control mechanism ,but motivated in the desire of grace through the gospel which is true freedom.   In the 20 th century (as opposed to 17th century)semi plagenist view, we have a God pictured as weak by defining Him as waiting in the background for us to begin the process and then responsibility begins to be defined as our own ability to change through process, then man is exalted, and the surface process begins to bring up surface feelings strictly on a horizontal level. But in the reformed position along with the (Psalms- a small jab at the frozen chosen), those who accuse a believer are always brought down by the prayers of the helpless because God has always placed people in position by grace and His work upon the desires are always done in an undeserved paradigm. With the semi plagenist veiw we have a partial healing because it is man centered with a defining of truth feelings from a philosophy, while the sovereign view is that God is not only a God of healing and that His anger is only displayed in the deep corruption, but it is directed at the self righteous who are in a worse position than the degenerate. They actually place more burdens on the one who suffers, while alleviating surface feelings. This is from various Psalms. Reply Quote Notify

6831  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: For the Calvinists out there on: January 03, 2008, 11:45:49 PM I am a Calvinist because of Gods faithfulness and my unfaithfulness. I believe in total depravity because the bible says that there is no one good no not one, that we are born in Adam being spiritual dead and unable to seek after God. We were a dead man made alive. Thats why we believe in unconditional election, because we are not able to choose God, but He chooses us. While we were in sin Christ died for us, that is He obtained salvation at the cross , so that when He completes the transaction in time, it is His salvation alone. So if we couldnt obtain salvation on our own we cant keep it on our own. It doesnt depend upon our faith , but upon God regenerating us. When we get the new life then all things become new.  And if we had nothing to do with our salvation, then the work was His alone to obtain salvation. He determined before the foundation of the world to save some people out of the rest, and purposed in time to save these elect. His purpose for saving was done by Christ coming and living a righteous life , dieing for the elect, and sitting at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest, since He obtained salvation He ever intercedes for us to bring it to its ends. His purpose of saving the elect in the cross cannot fail.  Because He has given us irresistible grace. We were saved by grace, that is the kind of grace that extends to us when we were  enemies with God . God allowed us to go our own way and if He had not determined in eternity past to extend His grace to us then we would have continued rite into eternity of suffering in hell. But He gave us new life by grace alone, which worked in us at a time that He chose from eternity past. And if this grace cannot be resisted , then His purpose in sanctifying us will be fully effective. So that we are going to persevere to the end because He saved us by grace alone and He keeps us by that same grace. So why would you doubt? Reply Quote Notify

6832  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Does anyone here ever doubt on: January 03, 2008, 10:41:52 AM  The general mood of believers is determined by the way they think. And doubt starts in the thinking process. Doubt in itself is not evil. Doubt is not trusting in something. And so there is this protective pain that we hold onto that causes us to have a certain level of doubt. And this protective pain is a process of our thoughts than involve the love -hate relationship we have in our view of the world. As the psalmist says I believed therefore i said "I am greatly afflicted." In other words because the Psalmist saw the beauty and truthfulness of God in creation and His revelation of Himself , then all these other earthly concerns and relationships were lies or afflictions, and where as if they were hate.   In order for Gods love to grip us in our desires we must have a rise in our thoughts to His beauty and majesty.  This view causes us to desire God over our own ability to work up happiness in ourselves. So that doubt is a process in our minds that confuses this love-hate relationship in a meta physical sense. We are tempted to be all about love, without any negative paradigms in our believing. Or we are tempted to be all hateful so that we are overcome by sorrow and grief.   We must protect our hearts by having the desire of our minds to be increased by our thinking thoughts after God. And so there is more than just a rational explanation about the moral choices that we make. This process of gaining a holistic design of thinking rite involves struggling with a power of doubt that must be dealt a blow beyond these rational explanations. So that these desires of love and hate are intermingled with rational thoughts. The process of gaining wisdom is understanding these ideas that are presented to us in our process of thinking or in conversation, so that we can identify the wrong dispositional philosophy and take the doubt captive. We do this by a wise understanding of Gods dispositional love- hate ideas.  Doubt is always in the form of a weight upon the soul. But then it is not always visible to us. It is like a hidden poison that lingers and causes us to be hard hearted. There are levels of doubt, but the spiraling down effect can be very slow or very quick. When it is quick, it feels as if a fear was on the end of a sword and was pierced into our hearts and we immediately begin spiraling down into anxiety. Or it can be a general  mood of irritation in a certain reaction to every problem that comes into our life. It feels like being afraid of what will happen but pulling up your own boot straps without going through the process of resting in Christ. It becomes a way of life and is a general level of anger that we carry around always reacting to circumstances. Reply Quote Notify

6833  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: For Our Mbg on: January 03, 2008, 08:25:37 AM Work is really slow now. Reply Quote Notify

6834  Forums / Main Forum / Re: mammabee Why did you leave? on: January 02, 2008, 05:26:54 PM Quote from: JimR on January 02, 2008, 04:16:57 PM another beloved child of HIS wrote: Did it ever occure to any of you that maybe the staff at Key Life who know about Steve and the situation, that they have prayed about the decision they have made? ##  I would appreciate very much hearing from them about that, if that were true. Your God sounds so tiny to me.  ##  ??  Our conception of God isn't what's being discussed, so I'm not sure what the relevance is there.  (BTW - Last time I checked, we served the same God.)   However, if I may:  For all you know, maybe "our" God has brought us to this very point so that Christians will stand up and speak up with the boldness that Steve B. speaks about in his book "Living Free" and refuse to continue to be doormats.  It seems to me that THIS is JUST as much a viable picture of what God's will may be as yours....if not MORE viable, since the teaching of standing up to people and not being a doormat comes from this very site.   Maybe it's God's will that this site practices what the President preaches.  It's about what you all want and what will make you comfortable and feel safe.  ##  No, that isn't true.  My concern is not for myself.  Please do me a favor and stop trying to tell me what's in my heart and what my desires are, abcH - You're doing QUITE badly with that presumption. I say this is like a regular church and people may want to believe that there is a safe  place, but there is never safety.  Safety is an illusion. ##  I'm sorry, but having been on a number of discussion boards, your last remark above is simply not true.  TOTAL and COMPLETE safety may not be achieved, but this forum could be a lot safer than what it is.  The managers of this site have allowed new and hurting Christians to be hurt and driven away by someone who is full of hate.  I'm saying that situation should be seriously thought about and addressed.  What's going on here is contrary to the KL ministry goal.  Hurting people are leaving because they're being preyed upon by someone filled with disdain and contempt - That is the current reality. My God has a plan here and you are each invited to grow and share in His plan for how things will proceed or to sit on the outside, pout and complain that Steve is too mean. ##  I'm sorry, abcH but it is a HUGE presumption on your part for you to pontificate in the above that anyone who disagrees with you is somehow "outside" of the plan of God for this place.  I can't believe that you would be so arrogant as to say what you've said. If each of you humbled yourselves at His feet and asked Him to change you so this whole thing would glorify Him, not make you comfortable, we would all be abundantly blessed.  ##  I submit that history proves you wrong on this.  What actually happens is that the preying on the weak and hurting is enabled to continue.  I refuse and reject the idea that this is "God's will" and should be allowed to continue. But, even if this is a Christian forum, really its still the same as any other place, everyone wants to be right and not aggrivated by anyone else and God is mearly a tiny spot in it all. ##  abcH - With all due respect to you - I would ask that you come down off your preaching platform above, and practice some of the humility that you are pontificating for the rest of us to have.  You have posted as if you can read hearts and intentions here, and you simply CAN'T.  And, it is not for you to state what God's role and influence is in anyone's life on the basis of whether they agree with you or not.  You really really really need to stop believing that you're the only one with God's perspective and God's plan for this.   That kind of presumption simply does not look good on you AT ALL. Jim  I don t think SteveO is stopping this, but everybody has a view that is what it is including the ones who are getting mad and leaving. The freedom is attractive. We need to be a little bit more sensitive to our fellow believers. Abch as i recall is married to an unbeliever. I would take what shes says with a little more acceptance. Reply Quote Notify

6835  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Love on: January 02, 2008, 04:58:59 PM God is love, so this is why when He acts  according to His holiness,  what goes before His justice, being satisfied in Christ, is mercy, faithfulness, kindness, and unfailing graciousness. Because whatever God does in that work is praiseworthy, beautiful and glorious. Because He is unapproachable having a comparison to a heat from light that would extinguish us. So this is why He condescends to love us keeping us from seeing what He sees and understands absolutely, because it would destroy us, but showing us enough of Himself so that we could be able to experience His love being shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit so that we will not only look at the beauty of his works but also have an experiential knowledge of Him by the overwhelming presence of His eternal faithfulness. So that there is nothing that can separate us from Him because He is love. Reply Quote Notify

6836  Forums / Main Forum / Re: mammabee Why did you leave? on: January 02, 2008, 03:10:17 PM The forums are good in that if we were all present in a room, we probably would not say certain things because we would be more self conscious about how we were perceived. So we can be more forth rite here because of the certain impersonal nature of not observing body language. At least for me, this struggle is a very big problem. I have a shy side of being overly consumed by what others think. I get really brave sitting miles away from you all. So this helps.  But then if this becomes too real, then its just imaginary relationships in which we can form an opinion about someone that is not necessarily their total personality. So we got to keep these things in perspective. In some ways we all are totally different in person than on the forums. Its imaginary. Reply Quote Notify

6837	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Faith	on: January 02, 2008, 02:57:25 PM
Hi Nursie, Glad that your here again. Youve encouraged me in the past. Maybe its because you are struggling with that question shows that you have faith. 6841  Forums / Main Forum / Re: mammabee Why did you leave? on: January 02, 2008, 01:35:37 PM I understand TO s point. He doesn t believe in anything in a practical sense but he holds tightly to the philosophy  of agnosticism. So he really has only one thing to say, but at least he is persistent. And i guess because he is participating so often, then its hard to tell him he cant be here. So we have all kinds of options, whether we want to address him on a certian issue, or whether we want to ignore him, completely, on a day to day basis, or when we feel that we are spiritually unable to get into it with him. And in that case maybe we can admit that we are struggling. But we always go to our brothers side , even if he is not completely rite . So just dont let him get you down, if you are depressed dont read what he is saying. 6842  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: But God Told me so.... on: January 02, 2008, 01:04:11 PM Quote from: thankful on January 01, 2008, 10:38:41 AM That was a good post MBG. Do you think that when we are walking close to the Lord it's easier to pick up on the spiritual tasks He has planed for us? I'ts like a while ago I was attending church quite regularly and I would hear things and hear sermons that went along with what I was reading in my own personal studies at home and in Bible studies. So it was like that spritiual realm was so much easiser to access. And there have been times when I have been away from church and G-d in my studies and prayer and it's like every day just has about the same meaning and it's not that exciting although it's not sad or anything. But there also have been times when I was not attending church and looking for any answers from the L-ord and He had a way of leading me like in that time   near the bridge. I was not really looking for any answers from Him, but what He showed me went a long way and it actually led me back to Him, as far as being close to Him again. I guess sometimes we can be diligent and see our spirital surroundings and when we arent then G-d can  show us anyway. He is so good to us.  To often we are having a mind to search out the path that God has determined in eternity for us to go, and we search as if it really depended upon what we do, what we say, what we plan, and what kind of teaching we believe. And the whole plan of  our future is determined by our ability to know the future by our own planning. So that we live on this human faith level. And in going down this path our next success is determined by our philosophy of being able to achieve our goals. Then we are caught in this cycle of being tempted to live in "the group" rather than having a Theology of individualism in knowing our eternal call. This is a wrong view of faith. Because Gods sheep hear His voice one at a time.  We are going down a very narrow path, that is not a smooth path. And we are to be fully engaged in our understanding of who God is and  then what we are in relation to Him. And so, we are in the new journey with an ear to hear His voice. And rather than having a philosophy defining our own faith in how it is common to the society, we are fully engaged as wanting a renewed power that comes from His word so that we get the next thing from His mouth. The kind of faith we have is determined by the object of our faith rather than our reasoning of that determination. So that the society of Gods elect live with one another with a full design of each person hearing His voice, so that it is impossible to live in that society without living in the paradigm of the supernatural. As  regenerated individuals we bring supernatural gifts , but as human philosophers we bring the peer pressure of our philosophy.
6846  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: But God Told me so.... on: January 01, 2008, 10:17:30 AM Every thing that happens in the universe is under the God divine control. So that the circumstances that come about from one moment to another are ordered by God for a purpose that we can comprehend but on the other hand that is a mystery to us. So that what we understand must be under girded by these mysteries. Because the eternal nature of the unseen are what we experience because there is power in the unseen even tho we do not completely understand these mysterious workings. So that there is a rational existence that we cannot understand but that we experience in the effects in our souls.  There is this spiritual environment that determines what happens in the physical realms of touch taste feel and see. And this is what makes us to be rationally holistic. Even tho we do not see our spiritual part, yet there is a spiritual world that we live in that in the spirit that determines our responses and actions in the physical world. Even tho we cannot understand all that we are in the spirit, yet there is a will and an action that proceeds our understanding of what we can understand. So that how we acknowledge the truth about the holistic notions of the mysteries will determine what our perception of reality is. 6852  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: But God Told me so.... on: December 31, 2007, 12:52:33 PM Quote from: osiris041282 on December 31, 2007, 11:58:09 AM Job is a great book, there are so many lessons to be learned in that book...overcoming trials, the ultimate Mercy and Grace of God...the fact that we can be real with God, and He is real with us... I think I'll go back and read it later...   Yes and Job is an example of how we can live a life that is pleasing to God in a circumspect way and yet still fall into temptation and the snare of the devil. Because the cry of the human heart is for deliverance, Jobs trials are the absolute worse that a sinful human being could endure. When Job was confronted with the physical pains and the accusations of the self righteous he continued to take refuge in God. Even tho the scripture gives us a look into the problems in his family with his kids worldliness, yet Job continued to take refuge in Christ even to the point of being a high preist before God for his family. So that Job was trusting in Christ as he was in the severest pain. Because when those who are closest to Job gave into the trial and they lost their trust in God, yet Job  continued to trust in God.  The reason that Job was enabled to trust in God was because He had practiced those means of grace long before he had the temptation. So that Job knew how to endure a trial. He learned that even tho he had such blessing of monies, yet he did not trust in them. So that his  desires were more for the glory of God than they were for himself. So he was always bringing the poor to his house and taking care of their needs. He knew that God was close to the poor. And it was not because he was doing a good deed that he had confidence, but it was the kind of worship that he had that gave him that desire.  Instead of living for his riches , Job lived in constant praise of the giver of all things. So that Jobs days were spent with a focus on God as the provider, and Job believed that he brought nothing to God. Even in his own family who were living on the good things rather than on Gods goodness, Job rose above that. So that Job was able to endure the deaths of his children and his wife departing from the faith. Job shows us that when things are going easy, that we should have a constant eye to Gods goodness and a constant distrust of our own ability. And if job would have practiced self righteousness , then his friends would have been able to talk him out of taking refuge in God alone. But Job had experienced the goodness of God in all of the trials in his experience that he saw through the shallow theology of those self righteous counselors.  Job shows us that when we go through a trial there are other trials that come along. There are more people who try to get us off the path by placing a stumbling block before us. There is the wicked traitor, the one who is closest to us. There are the self righteous who come with blame and condemnation and accusations. And in all of this Job knew that God had ordered these circumstances so that he could depend on God without the means of having gifts and friends. Job learned that God was greater than just being the God of good times. Job learned that even tho his family was not completely on board with persevering, yet God was able to bring him through the trial Himself, because the help of man was worthless. Job is an example for those who are all alone crying out to God for deliverance while the mountains of  good things and the people were failing all around him. He took refuge in his God.  This is our world view, my friends. 6859  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: But God Told me so.... on: December 31, 2007, 10:56:21 AM Yes and no. Could God work outside the means? He could speak audibly to someone? He can do anything He wants. I mean its just as wrong to attribute something of God to evil as it is to question how God can speak. Throughout the history of the church Revivals we have had to deal with this kind of difficult determination. It was Edwards that studied these experiences of hearing voices or having a strong impression. There were good people questioning whether this kind of experience was legitimate or not. Some of the ministers dismissed this as fanaticism.   The orthodox view of the relation between the Spirit and the Word is that the Spirit uses the word to teach in a propositional way in the illumination of the truth to the mind. Because the word is Trinitarian, so that the very words of the text give life to the hearer by the Spirit applying it. But the words have the nature of God in them also so that to hear His word is as if He were speaking audibly to you. The regulative principle is to read the word in the assembly of believers because the word does its work in a saving way as a promise that private reading does not. So that there is a mysterious application communicated on the Sabbath that does not happen in private. And the private reading makes the Sabbath reading come alive more . And on a week by week basis there is a healthy movement in time as if our lives were like music, where we have the stanzas throughout the week and then on the Sabbath we get to the chorus. This is the holistic way of God speaking in a special way to the heart.  In meditation there is a sense in which God comes in the accumulation of knowledge that is different than a new meditation, or a new discovery of the truth. And it is in a communication that is mysterious. There is an assurance that is brought on by taking the word and letting it form Christ in you the hope of glory. At some point Christ is spiritually alive in our understanding so that we feel as if He were speaking in our being conscious of Him presently working in us and on us and through us. Because to Him and through Him are all things.